[00:00:00] EricG Back in February we visited with Fortress Building Products about decking and and steel decking. We talk to them about using something besides wood to build that outdoor deck

Jeff Schulz: It's around the house, but it is something exciting for us. We've always been able to build, and we've had contractors from day one taking our framing components and making custom pergolas. Yep. While we've launched now over the past couple months, pergola kits, so a single sku, everything you need for a 12 by 12 Pergo ups.

[00:00:20] Jeff Schulz: Um, for example, we've got three different sizes that, yeah. Pre cut, pre-roll, one sku, you open it up, it's a, let's call it a three by three bundle. Everything you need to build that per. Now,

[00:00:30] Eric Goranson: so two, that is amazing. And there's no thought to it. You're just gonna follow the directions, put it together. It's made to go that way.

[00:00:37] Eric Goranson: A hundred

[00:00:37] Tim Sandlund: percent. Yeah. So as Jeff mentioned, like we've got contractors using, uh, steel framing to build ize for years, right? So we call that kind of that limitless design options

[00:00:47] Jeff Schulz: when it comes to remodeling and renovating your homes. There is a lot to know. The leave got you covered. This is around the house.

[00:00:59] Eric Goranson: Welcome. [00:01:00] On the House Show, this is where we talk everything about your home every single week. Thanks for joining us today. We are having fun here at Design and Construction Week, international Building Show Kitchen, a Bath industry show, as well as the National Hardware Show. Let's see how much stuff we could pack into the Las Vegas Convention Center.

[00:01:18] Eric Goranson: I am down here at the Fortress Building Products booth. Let's get some introductions to your guys, so the listeners you. What the voices sound like. Go ahead Jeff. Start

[00:01:28] Jeff Schulz: it out, brother. All right. So thanks for having us. We're excited to be here. Uh, my, my name's uh, Jeff Schultz. I'm the vice president or Senior Vice President of Sales and marketing at Forres Building Products.

[00:01:37] Jeff Schulz: I've been with the company for 12 years, so it's been an amazing ride for us and Nice. It's funny to say down here for the week, it's gonna take you a week just to go through all the different halls because this is, I would say from an excitement level, the. I mean, the most well attended IBS show that I've seen probably in a decade.

[00:01:52] Jeff Schulz: I mean, amen. It has been packed, which is great for us. You think about, um, some of the people talking about, Ooh, the economy this year, this and that. Well, it [00:02:00] is packed cuz people are looking for opportunities, are looking for innovative products. And so it's, uh, it's been awesome to see the crowds that are here.

[00:02:08] Jeff Schulz: So,

[00:02:09] Eric Goranson: Is like the Super Bowl of construction. A hundred

[00:02:12] Jeff Schulz: percent. And, but I mean, even last year in Orlando, like was decent. I low expectations here is anybody here? But this year is by far the busiest I've seen in 10 years easily.

[00:02:21] Eric Goranson: So yeah, it's absolutely incredible. Right? And uh, yeah, it's yesterday trying to get outta here was its own mess.

[00:02:28] Eric Goranson: Right. Oh. You know,

[00:02:29] Jeff Schulz: and we took, uh, we, we went to Caesars from here and it took us, uh, I think 42 minutes to go, two and a half miles. It was great. . Yeah. That's wild.

[00:02:37] Eric Goranson: Yeah, exactly. And my Uber ride was like $52 with search pricing. So for me to go just over to the Palms, I was like, Awesome guys. Yeah. Thank you.

[00:02:45] Eric Goranson: Thank you. Las Vegas. Yeah. Okay. Next introduction.

[00:02:48] Tim Sandlund: Yeah. Tim Salan. I'm the director of Marketing for Fortress. Been here for just about two years. Nice. So I've been in the industry with building products for 10 years, so, ah, love this show. Love the people that attend it. [00:03:00] Uh, and thanks for having us.

[00:03:01] Eric Goranson: Cool.

[00:03:01] Eric Goranson: Let's talk about Fortress Building products is you guys have your hands in so many different things and quite frankly do it really well, but you're just not that one trick pony either, right?

[00:03:11] Tim Sandlund: Yeah. So we, we talk about, Solution, we look in your backyard. Um, we're the to of solution there. So we do steel deck framing.

[00:03:19] Tim Sandlund: Yes, we do it with uh, same material. You can do a steel pers as well and we'll get into the benefits of that. Got, we've got decking, fasteners, railing, fencing. Am I miss clouding? CLA cladding. Yes. Or decking that goes un cloudy. And then of course lighting and accessories. Yeah.

[00:03:35] Eric Goranson: See, it's like, guys, if you don't know who these guys are and you're thinking about building a project, doing a project, whether you're a homeowner or contractor, these guys have a lot of solutions that we're gonna talk about today.

[00:03:45] Eric Goranson: Yeah. And,

[00:03:45] Jeff Schulz: and you know what's great about it too, is it's not only residential, so commercial. So we've put a big emphasis on. So many of our products, being able to touch different segments of the industry. So whether it be, you know, backyard home renovation, but that total outdoor solution for your [00:04:00] backyard, oh, I want to put in a deck.

[00:04:01] Jeff Schulz: Well, great, here's the railing to match. Here's the decking, here's the fast moves, here's the lighting. Oh, here's a Perla, here's a perimeter fence From that perspective, and then you get into commercial applications. We have products even used in the high security world from a fencing standpoint. See around a data center.

[00:04:15] Jeff Schulz: Yep. For security. I mean, you guys in the Pacific Northwest, there's a couple big people up there that need lots of data centers. So think about that. Yeah, I got this, I got this

[00:04:21] Eric Goranson: little tiny company up the street called Intel from my office. You know, so little guys, you know, they know a little bit about computers, but Yeah.

[00:04:28] Eric Goranson: Right. They got those things. Springs a bell. Right? I think I've heard of them. Yeah. It's same kind of thing though. Yeah, and that's what's cool. Let's dive into steel decking as far as the framings part of that, cuz this to me makes so much sense. So many people get hurt by. Deck framing, failing just because it wasn't either put together.

[00:04:47] Eric Goranson: Right. Or it got rotten. You guys have that solution and the way wood prices have been, sometimes the lesser cost solution because you don't have to have the Brinks truck to go by the lumber.

[00:04:58] Tim Sandlund: Yeah. Yeah. That definitely was a [00:05:00] benefit, especially during Covid, right? Where people are seeing the, the cost difference between a steel frame and a wood frame be very close.

[00:05:06] Tim Sandlund: But what, what we've seen even past them is the labor savings. Yeah. And also just the peace of mind that comes with the steel deck framing. So you're putting. Deposit, PVC decking, alternative decking, that's 25, 50 year warranties. And then you're putting a wood frame underneath that is gonna rot and you know who knows how long.

[00:05:23] Tim Sandlund: Totally right. You talk about old wood, old wood versus new wood, and just the change in that and what people are seeing is like, Why put all the investment on the top of the deck and ignore the underside of that deck, right? So with our steel framing, you're gonna get a 25 year warranty. With that, it's perfectly straight, right?

[00:05:40] Tim Sandlund: Everything is the exact size. It's not like your lumber, and you get the benefit of the strength of steel. Everything

[00:05:45] Eric Goranson: that comes with that. That's crazy. And here's why. And I've had this conversation on this show before many a times, you know, oh great, my deckings got a 50 year warranty. Cool. And you're putting pressure treated down it that might last 10 years.

[00:05:58] Eric Goranson: It's like taking a car and putting [00:06:00] a 50 year warranty on a hundred thousand mile, you know, pain job on a car that's got 200,000 miles on it that you're gonna get maybe a few more years out of. Doesn't make any sense. Right. And it's so much easier to work with, you know, lumber. You know, all right. This one's twisted.

[00:06:15] Eric Goranson: This one's kind of

[00:06:16] Jeff Schulz: this dimension and even the weight, even the weight of lumber, people think, oh, steel's heavy. But when you start getting into long, those long spans and beams, things of that nature with wood, I mean, it is, uh, the steel is actually gonna be a lighter, easier product to install. Yeah.

[00:06:30] Eric Goranson: And it's so dimensionally stable.

[00:06:32] Eric Goranson: You know what it's gonna do. You know where it's gonna move. Right. Not where wood, it's like, oh, that I gotta hump now because this was twisting right. Or something weird was going on. It's you set it and

[00:06:41] Jeff Schulz: forget. Well, and what's also great for us, so, you know, when you think about the framing market, so you know our podcast here pre predominantly for North America, correct?

[00:06:49] Jeff Schulz: Sure. You know, but you look really the global market outside of the us. So you see framing systems, uh, in Australia, Africa, South Africa. You'll see Europe where, where the, the [00:07:00] resources aren't as al so you don't have the wood, all the forest if you will. It's commonplace in those other markets. So now what's great for us is really seeing this rapid adoption in North America with people recognizing the benefits of skill framing.

[00:07:14] Jeff Schulz: And you know, we could talk about the rotting, the warping, the twisting, all that. But truly what's really driving it home for contractors is saying, I installed this so much quicker. I've got 20 foot spins. So now I don't have, I don't have the footers, I don't have all the labor that comes. Says, let me put this deck in now, with labor shortages we've experienced over the past couple of years, right?

[00:07:33] Jeff Schulz: Yeah. I can do this so much quicker. We've got contractors, you know, the first question we always get is, Ugh. You know, what's that cost compared to wood? Right? Right. You know, what's the first cost? And what we find in J, like we had a contractor do their own internal case study and said, Our difference between steel and wood, it's cost us 2% more to do steel because the labor savings is so immense that it is.

[00:07:54] Jeff Schulz: It's the way we go and we've got contractors that won't even if, if someone wants wood, we'll walk from the job. Now, [00:08:00] why would

[00:08:00] Eric Goranson: steel, why would you do wood then? I mean, honestly, it's great. 2% a great question. I mean, that's okay. I'm gonna go bring that up in the bar tab tonight. With that 2% of that is gonna be, let's be honest.

[00:08:11] Tim Sandlund: Right, right. What else? From the contract? I mean, they're looking at us, they're not gonna have those callbacks. Right? Right. So there, there's a peace of mind from that. I'm gonna install this and I'm not gonna have to come back for this job. We've got, you know, we've got contractors that Jeff just mentioned that they're changing the way they do business.

[00:08:25] Tim Sandlund: So me being the marketing guy, yeah, they're looking at, you know, they may have five, 10 other contractors in their region. You have a big city that all do timber tech tracks some of. Fortress decking. Yeah. Right. And so they're all doing composite BC Well now they can differentiate themselves as saying, all right, well we do all the, the high-end stuff and now we do steel framing, and that's all we do.

[00:08:46] Tim Sandlund: Right. That's awesome. So now they're setting themselves apart. And so it's definitely on that sense, like the contractors are really buying into that. And I'll tell a quick story. One of our, uh, core contractors, Phillip Purdy's out in Colorado, he own the bills with steel framing. Nice. The [00:09:00] one thing I love too is, How he communicates to the homeowner.

[00:09:03] Tim Sandlund: Right? Because homeowners aren't only thinking really about the deck and the railing, right? Right. They don't really think about what goes underneath. Yeah. So talk about how to sell steel framing. One thing he does is he'll go to someone's house and go underneath the deck and show the wood and he'll, he'll show all the wood and see, look, look at everything Roddy.

[00:09:20] Tim Sandlund: See the rod here. See this? Mm-hmm. . And by the way, you have steel on your deck. Like what are you talking about? You see all the brackets, see all the new, the comfort they are. Look how good they look. Yeah. That is what your entire frame is gonna look like, except obviously our look looks. It's patri or black.

[00:09:33] Tim Sandlund: Yeah, it's beautiful, but it's gonna last far more many years than your woods. So he goes and says, think of this steel your, your wood's falling apart. Your steel's not your entire frame's gonna be this. And it clicks with homeowners like, all right, I'm investing in something bigger and than just steel framing.

[00:09:52] Tim Sandlund: I'm lasting peace of mind that this deck is gonna be standing for 25, 50 years and not have worry about all the

[00:09:58] Eric Goranson: maintenance. Yeah, I mean, we've got a [00:10:00] lot of listeners here internationally in this show. Are the top podcast in, in New Zealand. Awesome. Ireland, South Korea. We've got a bunch of different stuff out there for few listeners, so a lot of you guys are shaking your head going, what?

[00:10:10] Eric Goranson: Are you still using wood for? You idiots. But it's, it's, it's seriously, I mean, why would you want to do that for that cost savings? Really it's, it's not 2% more because of the value you get. I mean, think about having to replace that debt 10 years later because it's rotten and you got these, oh, I love the deck boards.

[00:10:29] Eric Goranson: They're perfect. But this framing's. Part because of the rot, whether it's the moisture or the heat or whatever it's happening. Well,

[00:10:37] Jeff Schulz: it really, so couple things to look at. Right? So we won, we talk about that total forts solution with all categories. Yeah. But it's important to remember, we recognize that there's contractors that have preferences around, around the globe.

[00:10:49] Jeff Schulz: Of course, our steel framing is designed with, with work, with any deck wood. It may be wood, it may be composite, may be pvc. It doesn't necessarily. To be ours. And we recognize that and we respect it. That's how it was developed for yeah. To be [00:11:00] a component and a segment of the business that makes it safer, quicker to install from that perspective.

[00:11:05] Jeff Schulz: Um, but it is something that we, we are just, we're beyond excited about. We think of the opportunity in this category. It's just immense. And, and it's great. We look at, um, we're selling this product in Europe. We're getting ready to launch this product. Um, you said New Zealand? Yeah. So we'll be, we'll just say in the markets now, in, in Australasia we'll be launching here.

[00:11:22] Jeff Schulz: Uh, several weeks guys, but, so now we've got a brand presence with our products on six continents. Three or four of them actually is now going to be framing is this is really pushing globally as well outside of the US and, and Canada. Yeah,

[00:11:40] Eric Goranson: I

[00:11:40] Tim Sandlund: think that's great. I think also, and Jeff can speak, as we were talking about this this morning, we were talking a lot about residential homes on the, on the steel deck framing, but we're seeing huge opportunities on the commercial side.

[00:11:50] Tim Sandlund: Yeah. You know, uh, woo. We, it's class A fire rating, um, rooftop California. Yeah. Oh my

[00:11:56] Eric Goranson: gosh.

[00:11:56] Jeff Schulz: All our California people on all this, if you look behind you, I [00:12:00] dunno if you can see, you'll see. State Fire marshal

[00:12:01] Eric Goranson: stickers on everything. See, that's it. I mean, I've got plenty of friends that are down in SoCal that are down there and they're like, okay, yeah, all right, I gotta come up with something that's Class A fire rated.

[00:12:10] Eric Goranson: And then they get into the debate of how am I gonna do this? It's crazy. So let's talk about that. I mean, you guys, of course, like we're talking about, you've got the total solution if you're a, you know, 40% of our audience is, is remodelers and builders out there and designers. So for these people, they can actually come in and grab something and have a total solution for that whole project.

[00:12:30] Eric Goranson: Right. But for the people out there, like you said, that hey, this is my angle. I always use these guys. You guys also have the decking. You've also got the the, the railing and stuff, which is another key part of this whole

[00:12:42] Jeff Schulz: system, right. They said, well, we've got that solution. We understand there's preferences, we respect that.

[00:12:48] Jeff Schulz: Right? Yeah. There's industry leaders that have been here for years and there's people aligned. We get that. We see our products being able to play a role in virtually any build, whether it's the entire build or a component of that build. And that's what's [00:13:00] exciting. And you know, we look at the other things that we don't.

[00:13:02] Jeff Schulz: We don't spend enough time really talking about is, you know, Tim talked about how do we help contractors, right? Yeah. How do we help them, um, really differentiate themselves? And so it is that framing. You know, think about it. Am I doing a disservice to my customer because I'm only gonna talk about a composite or a PVC board, but I don't wanna talk about.

[00:13:21] Jeff Schulz: A frame. Cause I'm worried they're gonna say it's too expensive. I would go back and say, well, it's not A, but B, if you've done, if you've worked with a homeowner and you've got them converted from wood to a composite of piece, you've done the hard work. Right? That's the biggest upcharge in a decade is going this.

[00:13:37] Jeff Schulz: That's, that's it. Now you're basically saying, I am recommending this to you as a homeowner. Like, and they're looking at you as a trusted source to say, you know, Hey, I, if you want wood, I could do it, but let me tell you why you want steel for a couple percent. Here

[00:13:50] Eric Goranson: is. Yeah. Now we're in the south coast.

[00:13:52] Eric Goranson: Yeah. And, and here's the thing too, for me, if I'm building a wood deck, and I've learned this from friends of mine in the deck industry, the best [00:14:00] practices for me, at least out on the west coast, is they're taping that whole top surface. Right. To try to keep the water off the wood. Right? Well, you got a day of taping in there, getting that done right, rolled out, right.

[00:14:09] Eric Goranson: Everything else, right. Forget you're just set and. There is none of that extra waterproofing that you guys have to do Exactly. Just to try to make an extra life outta that whole thing.

[00:14:19] Jeff Schulz: Right? Well, and it has with our product to that point. I mean, it's a, it's a G 60 galvanization and it has an architectural grade powder coat.

[00:14:27] Jeff Schulz: You know, and I know we're talking about the framing here, but it ties indoor other products. You look at our railing, for example. Yeah. So we used, uh, what we call a black sand finish. Mm-hmm. . So that same black sand finish matches the railing to the framing in one small part. Another thing from a labor standpoint is I don't.

[00:14:43] Jeff Schulz: FA on anymore because consumers are looking at this and saying, wow, it's an aesthetic. It's actually a designer aesthetic. I wanna see the frame and look. It matches the railing. So it's a small design aspect for that build

[00:14:54] Eric Goranson: as well. And it's huge because now you've got steel there, which is as durable it's gonna be, right.

[00:14:59] Eric Goranson: You don't have those [00:15:00] weird transitions of how am I gonna wrap my composite around to the face and make this look right? Right, right. Which is also another challenge. You can just. B put the railing on. It matches Right. Everybody's happy. It looks like it was meant to be that way. Right. Cuz it was. Right.

[00:15:16] Eric Goranson: And you're not trying to hide the ugly stuff

[00:15:18] Jeff Schulz: down below. It's true. Yeah. And, and as we've grown this product line, we continue to expand and enhance this product. So we look at, uh, you know, right now we've got here today we've launched our new five and a half inch square post and, uh, eight inch square nominal posts that go with the system.

[00:15:32] Jeff Schulz: And you can take that five and a half inch now up to 20 foot in length. So you want to do a two story deck, you want to add a. Guess what? We've got that solution. Now. We're in the past as we launched that product. Hey, we're coming. We're coming. Well, we're there now. And it's just another aspect that allows a builder to differentiate

[00:15:47] Eric Goranson: themselves.

[00:15:47] Eric Goranson: I hate doing two story decks outta wood because that four by four, that's max 16 feet up there, right? That. Thing wants to get into its own shape. , I'm like, this thing's gonna look like a candy cane when I'm done. That it wasn't right. Wasn't supposed to go, [00:16:00] it wasn't a spiral. You're right. Right. It's just, and you, and you look at it and something's moving.

[00:16:05] Eric Goranson: Right. That's why steel makes so much more sense, because again, and that 20 foot is a huge deal. Right? For sure. That's awesome. Let's talk about lighting. Let's skip ahead a little bit because to me that is the jewelry on a deck, right? You can get everything. Perfect. The most beautiful handrails. The deckings done.

[00:16:25] Eric Goranson: That lighting to me is probably one of the most important aesthetic things and safety things you can do on that deck. That's the thing when your friends come over at night and you got the barbecue going, yeah. They go, what is going on out here? Yeah.

[00:16:39] Tim Sandlund: Yeah. A hundred percent. I mean, I think that's the, the access, right?

[00:16:43] Tim Sandlund: And that sometimes gets overlooked at times, right? Uhhuh, , but it's the, it's the piece that when you build that deck, you're gonna notice it the most. Right. From a safety perspective, when you're sitting. Night, uh, my parents actually put a fortress deck, rail and light on their house, and every time we go there at night, I'm like, I need [00:17:00] this on my house.

[00:17:00] Tim Sandlund: Like just the lighting. But it is a, a piece and, you know, from a contractor, a dealer, it's an opportunity to add that shared wallet to the job, but not just because of the extra cost. It's just that it's a, it's gonna give the overall experience of that outdoor experience.

[00:17:16] Eric Goranson: That's what takes it, that from that kind of entry level deck into that luxury by just adding.

[00:17:22] Jeff Schulz: It is in, you know, with the different text lighting, whether it be post cab, whether it be down lighting, whether it be, uh, on your stairs, you know, from a code perspective, a safety perspective. It's there. And you know, really when you look at much of the, you know, many of the listeners of this podcast, from a contractor perspective, uh, we would encourage you.

[00:17:39] Jeff Schulz: Every single job you should be trying to sell or pitching, adding lighting for that aspect. From a business perspective, why not make some extra gross margin? Why not make some extra install dollars on that? On that deck, every single deck you should be pitching, lighting for the enhancement of not only your pocket pocketbook, but the enhancement of the [00:18:00] ambiance to the consumer.

[00:18:00] Eric Goranson: That consumer is gonna look at that for years and, and today with technology, this isn't like 10 years ago with lighting where it was kind of new. And there were issues and things like that these days. Oh my gosh. The lighting you can do and the places you can do lighting, right, is stunning.

[00:18:17] Jeff Schulz: I think there are, sometimes you'll run in, you know, contractors that sometimes like, oh, I don't know if I want to pitch this.

[00:18:22] Jeff Schulz: Am I gonna scare the homeowner? Look at, I want, we encourage people to look at from the opposite perspective. If I'm a homeowner and I've put $30,000 into a deck, and I knew that afterwards for $35,000, I could have had steel framing and I could have had lighting and you didn't pitch that to me, I'm actually gonna be a little disappointed and say, 10, 12% more.

[00:18:39] Jeff Schulz: I could have had lighting and steel framing. Why didn't you pick something? Cause you were afraid I would say no. Yeah, you did me

[00:18:44] Eric Goranson: a disservice. I already said yes. Let's, why don't we just spend a little more and do it Right. Exactly that way. 10 years. You're not out here going, Hey, uh, yeah, we gotta tear down that work.

[00:18:53] Eric Goranson: I did. Right? But the duck had a 50 year warranty. Well, yeah. That top pretty side did the rest of it, you understand? Not so much. [00:19:00] Right? Yep. . That's great. And by the way, those big posts talk about, make a statement, right? I mean, there, there's function there too, right? Yeah. You know, for big fans, but they give that, they just give that seriousness to it, you know?

[00:19:14] Eric Goranson: And, and I like that big, you know? Yeah. When you're building a deck, I like having those big posts personally. Yeah. Because it just gives that mass, it makes it have that foundational view to it. And of course, you know, for code reasons and structural reasons, it's there as well. Right. But I

[00:19:30] Jeff Schulz: do like that it's been, it makes a statement.

[00:19:32] Tim Sandlund: Yeah. It's also been the number, number one request from our contractors out there is still framing are those larger post. , you know, we're, we're, they're available. They're coming out and it's, that's one thing that we, we strive to work on is, is to continue listening to our builders and our contractors.

[00:19:49] Tim Sandlund: Right. Steel framing for the last couple years has really taken off. Right? Yeah. You're seeing competitors get into this alternative framing opportunity, right. They're seeing we, we own the deck, we own the rail, [00:20:00] everything above, and now of a sudden there's an opportunity underneath the deck. Yeah. In that frame.

[00:20:04] Tim Sandlund: And so we wanna stay ahead of that. So we've got builders and contractors who are giving. That they're building our super decks every day. Yeah. Right. And they're saying, you know, these are the type of jobs I'm doing and these, this is what I need. If, if I'm transitioning from wood to steel, I have to have this, this, and this.

[00:20:22] Tim Sandlund: Right. We need to solve this problem. And our team, our innovation team, our product team, done a great job of taking that feedback, figuring out solutions, not really solutions for them, but also meet the code requirements that That's always moving. Yeah. That we expect that you're gonna get from Fortress.

[00:20:38] Tim Sandlund: Right. A whole other, uh, innovation aspect to that to make sure you're hitting that and above and beyond what we want to hit. Yeah. And that takes some time. But you see that relationship with these contractors, especially the ones that are forward thinking. Yeah. Right. And moving into these alternative framing, it's really changing the way the industry builds depth.

[00:20:57] Eric Goranson: Exactly. Let's step outside here and talk these [00:21:00] pergolas, those are gorgeous as well. And again, not made of wood . Yeah.

[00:21:05] Jeff Schulz: It's literally same components you take in steel framing now instead of. Is underneath, now you're looking at it overhead. So, um, it, we've got, we've got great opportunities with the, with gli, as we've seen that market continue to grow.

[00:21:16] Jeff Schulz: Just like with Covid, the entire outdoor space. GLIs, you know, s have been strong in many markets throughout, well North America, but globally for years. Yeah. But we, we've seen just like all of outdoors accelerate during, um, the past three years. But you look at that, when we take Pergo, take that same material that you're making with framing it now allows you to even enhance that build.

[00:21:35] Jeff Schulz: And say, I talked earlier, I said, well, you've got framing in black. Now you've got the railing to match it. Well, guess what? Now you can integrate a perla. Is it an arbor over a kitchen, an next outdoor kitchen, right? Or is it a standalone Perla elsewhere? Um, and we're really driving with some new innovations, some new, uh, new pieces to really make them stand out as well.

[00:21:55] Jeff Schulz: But it is something exciting for us. We've always been able to build and we've had contractors from day one [00:22:00] taking our framing components and making custom pergolas. Yep. What we've launched now over the past couple months, pergola kits, so a single sku, everything you need for a 12 by 12 Pergo up. Um, for example, we've got three different sizes that Yeah.

[00:22:12] Jeff Schulz: Precut pre one sku, you open it up, it's a, let's call it a three by three bundle. Everything you need to build that per door right now.

[00:22:19] Eric Goranson: So, dude, that is amazing. And it is, there's no thought to it. You're just gonna follow the directions, put it together. Made to go that way. A hundred percent. Yeah.

[00:22:26] Tim Sandlund: So as Jeff mentioned, like we've got contractors using, uh, steel framing to build pergolas for years.

[00:22:32] Tim Sandlund: Right. And so we call that kind of the limitless design options. Yeah. And a lot of what we're showing today is a lot of new parts and pieces. Right. If you want that modern cola Right. You want a more traditional pergola. Now we've got these other pieces to help them build whatever they want. Yeah. Or you've got the homeowner or maybe that diy or that's like, well, I just want, you know, a 12 by 12 or a eight by 10.

[00:22:51] Tim Sandlund: Great. We've got three sizes of kits that we offer the. And now we can offer those to homeowners, to contractors who wanna put up a quick ola. [00:23:00] But you still get the quality of the evolution system

[00:23:03] Eric Goranson: and there's nothing much more DIY friendly for someone to put that together. Right. I mean, for sure. It's, it's no different than going to that, uh, Swedish box store and putting things together.

[00:23:15] Eric Goranson: Right. You just. It. You're not getting the saw out. You're not getting the stuff out. Exactly, exactly.

[00:23:21] Tim Sandlund: I'm not allowed to touch those stuff and I, I can build a

[00:23:24] Eric Goranson: See, there you go.

[00:23:26] Tim Sandlund: Put a drill in my hand and you know, something's gonna happen.

[00:23:31] Tim Sandlund: I can put together.

[00:23:33] Eric Goranson: There you go. But that's what's smart about that for the, there's all these people out there. Hey, I can afford to put the burglary kit in, but I can't pay the contractor do it. There's still a solution for 'em. Right.

[00:23:44] Jeff Schulz: And you, and you look at, really, when you start looking at uas, you start getting into an eight by eight, 10 by 10 cedar post.

[00:23:51] Jeff Schulz: So from a cost perspective, the steel, we can actually see steel perilla installed at a lower cost than certain species of wood. So it is, it's not [00:24:00] all about cost, it's about that ease of installation. It's. Ongoing maintenance that says, man, I'm looking at this Pergo, it looks great. I stained it. Oh wait, it's a year later.

[00:24:08] Jeff Schulz: I've gotta stain it again. And we're saying, guess what? You don't. Yeah.

[00:24:11] Eric Goranson: And what's worse though is if you've got those beautiful vines, cuz you're trying to grow something across the top, right? If you've gotta painted or you've stained it, they've grown. Everything's good. And now you're like, how am I gonna do this with plants on it?

[00:24:24] Eric Goranson: I can't finish this now. Exactly. Yeah. And then you got a hot mass, right? A

[00:24:28] Jeff Schulz: hundred

[00:24:29] Eric Goranson: percent. So, and so that's where that really pays off cuz you can just, again, like we've talked about, set it, forget it, and you've got multiple styles there too. You can kind of lean this into traditional, it's not just people go, oh, steal contemporary.

[00:24:41] Eric Goranson: Right? That's not always the case.

[00:24:43] Tim Sandlund: Multi-material. Different types. And Gerald we're showing off, uh, some cedar kind of cloudy and we got these, these new clouding clips that are low profile that allow you to attach different type of boards and give you that more modern mix, almost Japanese feel to it.

[00:24:58] Tim Sandlund: Right? A mixed material look. Yeah. Whether it be on the [00:25:00] side or even on the top of the burg. And we're seeing I in Austin, Austin, Texas visiting, uh, a build and was a homeowner doing it, and he did a mixed material and it looks and looks incredible. Yeah. So it opens up a lot of opportunities there from inside

[00:25:13] Eric Goranson: perspective.

[00:25:13] Eric Goranson: Well, sometimes you. In a tight space. Many homes out there, you know, new developments where, you know, there's eight, 10 feet between the house, right? You wanna put the Pergo up and you're like, Hey, I'm tired of Mr. Smith next door watching me. Every time I'm out there in the barbecue, I want to kind of shield it a little bit.

[00:25:28] Eric Goranson: Yeah.

[00:25:28] Jeff Schulz: Tim usually says he'd rather you watch 'em in the shower. So I get exactly

[00:25:34] Tim Sandlund: there. We have no shades right now, so like our neighbors are texting me all the time being like, Hey, what are you, what are you doing over there? I'm like, yeah, yeah, we need to get those

[00:25:43] Eric Goranson: shades. Yeah, I know it's a. Not the same issue downstairs.

[00:25:46] Eric Goranson: We don't have shades on it either cause I'm out in the woods. But I feel bad for my neighbors have to drive down the flag lot behind me sometimes. I'm like, oh . Sorry guys. . Yeah. That's awesome. So what else do you have here at the show that you guys are premiering as far as new [00:26:00] stuff? Let's talk new stuff here for a minute and uh, talk about that.

[00:26:04] Eric Goranson: Cuz that's what people come here for, right? Yeah. Is they're, they're looking for that new

[00:26:07] Tim Sandlund: stuff, you know, I mean, we touched on quite a few on the evolution. Yeah. Framing burgles. I would say, um, FB 26, which is our. Railing line. We've got a new infill option called access. It's a horizontal steel railing.

[00:26:19] Tim Sandlund: Ooh. So a very modern walk. Right. That's very on trend right now. You're seeing it. You go online and look for modern rail, like you're starting to see this more custom made. Yeah. Well now we offer it in our FT 26 line. So nice analyze system. Right. So much quicker install. And, you know, you talked a little bit more about that from a sales perspective, but it's, it's, it's taken off like people are seeing this and being like, this is amazing.

[00:26:44] Tim Sandlund: A lot of the times. This horizontal steel right length. It's a more custom look. Right. So you're looking, yeah. A lot of labor, a lot of cost. Right. Well, now we've simplified that process, but still giving you the fantastic modern look.

[00:26:56] Eric Goranson: It seemed forever. You'd have, you had two choices, right? You had glass or [00:27:00] cable, right?

[00:27:00] Eric Goranson: Or you had something that was kind of a more traditional look, and that was kind of the three boxes you checked. Right? But that look is so contemporary, so just custom built, like you said. Right? It's

[00:27:12] Jeff Schulz: a brilliant. and it, it applies to not only residential, but commercial. Mm-hmm. . Uh, but we look at, one of the things that we're excited about too with this infill option, just like our standard FE 26, is we've got posts with pre-attached brackets.

[00:27:24] Jeff Schulz: So talking about when we talk about, Hey, here's the benefits too. It may be different for a homeowner that is from a contractor, but from an install standpoint, how do we take, and we appreciate custom fabricators, beautiful work, right? Yeah. But what we can do is we can. Produce something with a automotive quality finish.

[00:27:40] Jeff Schulz: Mm-hmm. and we can help you with speed of installation. And so a pre-attached bra, a post with pre-attached brackets. Now it's not getting out there doing measurements to say where my brackets go. I set my post hang my panels and I save four to five hours on an install because my brackets are already

[00:27:53] Eric Goranson: pre-attached.

[00:27:54] Eric Goranson: And then because this is metal, the worst part of it is that if you didn't have those, the contractor that goes, [00:28:00] man, I was just thinking about going to lunch and I I need two more posts cuz I drilled that one around. Right, exactly. Because they're like, oh, what was I. You know, was

[00:28:08] Tim Sandlund: turned about a month ago and and majority of their work is custom fabrication.

[00:28:12] Tim Sandlund: Yeah. Right. So high end everything, custom fabrication. The only railing they offer outside of that is Fortress. And the reason why is at the 26, cuz they'll go to their homeowners and if their price range is not up to a custom fabrication, sure. They go to Fortress and say, you're gonna get the same look, the same quality of a custom fabrication.

[00:28:30] Tim Sandlund: But yet the labor savings, we what Jeff just saw pre-attached brackets, the penalized system, your cost is gonna drop to. And it's the only railing that they'll sell, and it's why they're so committed to tres, but it's, they compare it on par to a custom fabrication and you're just saving on all the labor costs and homeowners are, are, are jumping at it

[00:28:50] Eric Goranson: all day long.

[00:28:50] Eric Goranson: Well, that's where it makes sense for the homeowner, right? Right. You're saving labor, so now you're bringing something more into budget for whether you're a DIY or homeowner, whatever you're doing. Now it's [00:29:00] sliding more into their budget because quite frankly, if somebody's out there building for you and you're saving time, that's money.

[00:29:07] Jeff Schulz: Well, and you know, so we, we, I think a lot of times we default to talking about railing, but the same thing applies in our, with our fence products. So we have Yes. You know, to. A completely assembled product versus a fabricator, which again, beautiful work and working with fabricators will often talk about, Hey, make that grand entryway.

[00:29:24] Jeff Schulz: Put your, put your signature on it, make it beautiful. But when you're running a straight line, when you're doing the backyard, you're doing the perimeter. Use that preassembled piano to cut down on the labor, cut down on the install time. Um, from that perspective, and you know, you look at from a coding perspective, we talked about that earlier as well.

[00:29:39] Jeff Schulz: Yeah. Why does that matter? So it matters because we have an e eco in architectural grade. Code on our, on our steel product. Mm-hmm. . So if you look at that, that is, I talk, I talk about an automotive finish. That's where that come, comes from. Yeah. So the encoding systems really were developed, um, with the automotive industry back in the seventies.

[00:29:56] Jeff Schulz: If anybody's lives in the north, think about the salt on the roadways, the [00:30:00] cars, car guy, car guy, car guy rusting out, rusting out from that perspective. Oh man. So that's when ECO was developed and really taking that and applying it to our steel railings gives people and our fence peace of mind and saying, well, it is different than again, no.

[00:30:15] Jeff Schulz: Fabricator, a fabricator made, do something beautiful and put it in a powder coat line. But that's a different process than adding e-coat in different layers. A seven, seven to 11 layer coating that we're putting on our products.

[00:30:26] Eric Goranson: Yeah, I mean, and you're right, there's no comp. Even the custom guys, and again, nothing against those guys that finish just isn't what.

[00:30:34] Eric Goranson: Right. You're putting on there period.

[00:30:36] Jeff Schulz: Right. And we've had, and so like depending, you know, regionally, right? People have have material preferences. Sure. In products where oftentimes people say, oh, you know, the northeast for example, steal, oh, I don't like steel it rust. Well, guess what? 30 years ago when somebody welds on site and uses a can of spray paint, guess what?

[00:30:52] Jeff Schulz: It's gonna rust a hundred percent. When you've mass manufacturing in a controlled environment, a factory that has e eco architectural grade, all this, guess [00:31:00] what? It's not going. So,

[00:31:01] Eric Goranson: yeah. And, and that's, and even worse, the guy. You can. Right. I've seen that a hundred times. Yeah. You know, they're, I get a beautiful steel staircase that's being built in place.

[00:31:10] Eric Goranson: They're welding in place. Yeah. It's all done. And the guy's in there going with an airbrushed. I'm like, . Well, there goes that finish, right. , I mean. Exactly. Yeah. And that's what the clients paid for, but, right. One thing I'd like to say, For that reason. Custom is not always better, right? Custom is a process of building and not a grade of material, right?

[00:31:36] Eric Goranson: No. Custom means, Hey, I've got a, I gotta come up with a solution that no one's making and I'm forced to go custom. Or I want it built my way. But that doesn't mean it's better than everything else that's manufactured. It means you're

[00:31:49] Jeff Schulz: talented. Yes. It means you've got skill, and I meant more power to you. I mean, I.

[00:31:54] Jeff Schulz: We look at some of the products that are out there, projects like, my goodness, I mean, that is beautiful. A craftsman, an artisan. It [00:32:00] truly is craftsmanship and artisan. But to your point, it's a way of building. It's not the material itself.

[00:32:06] Eric Goranson: Right? Exactly. Exactly, exactly. We can't not talk about decking products.

[00:32:12] Eric Goranson: Right. We've talked about all this beautiful metal. Right, right. Let's talk about. The piece that most homeowners look at and go, I want my deck to look like this. Right. And that's that hyper-focus. They hold the sample up and go build this. Right? It's the part that we see, but it's the part that's really important as well.

[00:32:30] Eric Goranson: You gotta put something quality down there. I mean, I remember funny story, my, my mom 15 years ago, my mom and dad's house in eastern Washington, they put one of the first, and I'll use. Let's say it was, starts with a tea, we'll just let that product go. And it was a fencing product. Like a, like a dinosaur.

[00:32:48] Eric Goranson: Yes. . Yeah, absolutely. And the problem was this was first gen and we probably should have just fought it back then, but it looks like in the sun that [00:33:00] that fence was made outta silly putty. Every, it's worse than wood, right? But it was that first generation material. So is the fencing product. It's that old fencing product that went out for a little bit and they went, wow, this is a bad idea.

[00:33:12] Eric Goranson: Right? We tried to do something that was long term and it was like, ah, oh yeah, that's not working. Right. Not capped, not, you know, just all the, you know, it's, it's a particle

[00:33:23] Jeff Schulz: plastic board it looks like. So that's funny. That's actually how, um, two, that, that's basically what led me to Fortress is prior to Fortress, Worked, uh, in the composites industry for a composite fence manufacturer.

[00:33:35] Jeff Schulz: And I, so I, we'll just say I know what you're talking about because it was, uh, identified and capitalized upon quite a bit. Yeah. But it is, uh, you know, technology and, and it's not taking away from them, right? No, not at all. Technology has evolved. I mean, you talk about Intel, I mean, look every four years where processor speed double or, or something, I don't know what the exact calculation is.

[00:33:53] Jeff Schulz: Look

[00:33:53] Eric Goranson: at this iPhone that Apple keeps giving me every

[00:33:56] Jeff Schulz: two years. More technology than going to the moon, right. Is what they say in the space show. So [00:34:00] the, just, you know, from that perspective, One goes through, you know, can go through different learning curves as they, as they, uh, grow their products. Every product does that.

[00:34:07] Jeff Schulz: Exactly. So every product, but yeah, we, uh, so it's interesting you start with fence because we also offer a full line of composite fence products. So we have, um, a product called Oasis, which is a, uh, stick-built product. So if you are used to building wood stick built fence, whether it be a side by side board on board, Use that same nail gun.

[00:34:25] Jeff Schulz: Everything you're doing, you install our product. Um, from that perspective, we also have our evolver, which is a horizontal product, um, as well. That is sexy to me. It is. I I'm sorry, I saw that you

[00:34:36] Eric Goranson: called me or the evolver. Well, , you got a good beard, man. You gotta say car and a beard, you gotta go. So,

[00:34:42] Jeff Schulz: yeah, no, that Evolver has been great for us.

[00:34:44] Jeff Schulz: It's got an octagonal post little design aspect to it as well. Yeah. So it's real, been very good for us. But that oasis, not only does that Oasis work as a standalone stick, Ends. We have a product called estate, which is a hybrid of ornamental iron and privacy. Yeah, so it is an [00:35:00] ornamental product in which you can add wood or you can add our Oasis pickets.

[00:35:03] Jeff Schulz: Mm-hmm. to give a high-end privacy look. Many people will use that even for screening. So whether it be residential or commercial, it says, Hey, I've got ornamental around my perimeter fence, but I want to screen or hide my acs, my cool pumps, something along those lines. My hot tub, right? My hot tub, right. So now it's just an accent piece or some accent panels that match with the overall ornamental look.

[00:35:24] Jeff Schulz: With the longevity of composite as well. And we do. One last thing just to throw in, is that a estate we've actually made, we talked about the pergola kits. Yeah. We now offer an estate enclosure kit for single and double dumpsters, one skew. Oh my gosh. Everything you need to put in a single double, single dumpster or double dumpster, including ballards, everything.

[00:35:41] Jeff Schulz: You need to build that. And that's important for us to really get that, get that out there because there's so many times contractors a. Builders, like, what is the solution I have? I guess I can do masonry as I this. Other than that, I don't know what to do. So here's a solution. Served on a platter.

[00:35:57] Eric Goranson: See that?

[00:35:57] Eric Goranson: We'll have to, that might be a DIY project for [00:36:00] me because my house, I mean, I, I look at the street is a. Fairly busy street, but I got my two yard bins. Yeah, I got the trash bin, the recycle bin and the glass bin. Yeah, and the glass bin's. The one I'm trying to hide because I don't wanna see how many bottles are in that glass bin every week.

[00:36:16] Eric Goranson: that's when the neighbors start to judge and go, are you just putting that, you were busy last week, one of those weeks.

[00:36:22] Jeff Schulz: Sense there's some good breweries up in your neck of Absolutely,

[00:36:24] Eric Goranson: absolutely. Yeah. But you know what I mean, it's, it's, it's nice to be able to hide that stuff and get it from the, the side of the garage, even from a homeowner perspective.

[00:36:34] Eric Goranson: Let's take out the, the light commercial or whatever, but even from the homeowner's perspective, to be able to put that stuff away. You can hide it. And so you're not one of the TVs. I think it's a commercial out there where they're making fun of the new homeowner, washing his trash cans, , no, put 'em in enclosure.

[00:36:50] Eric Goranson: You're not out there making 'em look good. Exactly. They're

[00:36:52] Jeff Schulz: not met there. And it is so, you know, the residential, but the commercial, you know, again, talking about that commercial, but people looking for solutions. So instead of an [00:37:00] architect saying, I need to find, or, or a general contractor or a property owner, I need to now go find a manufacturer for decking.

[00:37:07] Jeff Schulz: I need to find a manufacturer for railing and a manufacturer. This a pergola. We come in and say, here we are. Single source everything you need. Here's your cladding, here's your decking, here's your skill frame. Here's, uh, a garbage dumpster enclosure. Here's pergolas. So we're working on multiple, uh, multi-family projects right now where it's, here's your garbage dumpsters.

[00:37:26] Jeff Schulz: Here are your, uh, here's the railing here. You know, from that perspective, we're trying to make it simple. All encompassing for the homeowner and the commercial project.

[00:37:35] Eric Goranson: Well, let's talk commercial for just a second. I mean, I can't tell you how many times, you know, I'm in the Portland, Oregon, Oregon area, so we get rain in that wintertime that just destroys stuff.

[00:37:44] Eric Goranson: Right? And I, it's, I go by the multi-family apartments that have the outside decks. And every 10 years they've got scaffolding up, they're ripping out all that wood that's coming out of the side. And I'm like, what are you guys doing? Right? You know, that should be steel. And they're gonna [00:38:00] get decades out of that compared to, you know, cuz no offense, apartment people, it's not always taken care of.

[00:38:07] Eric Goranson: The best out there. It's not being maintained. A lot of times. Some people, they have that outdoor patio and that door gets open when they inspect it. Right. And it doesn't go back out until they're done. But again, that commercial stuff makes a lot of sense just on the durability standpoint. Yeah,

[00:38:21] Jeff Schulz: it is. So, and Tim, sorry, I feel like I'm talking a lot here.

[00:38:24] Jeff Schulz: Um, but even from a commercial perspective, to your point, we get that there's different types of builders, right? There's somebody who wants to build and turn that project, or a builder that wants to hold it. And if you're a builder that truly wants to hold properties, there is, you need to be thinking about the amortization, thinking about that law, that life, that longevity.

[00:38:42] Jeff Schulz: So why would I put in. Thing when I've got composite, why would I put in, um, you know, why am I going to have a fabricator? Because, right, right now, today, maybe it's a couple percent less to have a fabricator come out and weld my fence or my railing outside and then paint it. Well, guess what's gonna happen in three years?

[00:38:58] Jeff Schulz: You're gonna have back [00:39:00] repainting that versus let's put it up this. Them that's engineered and manufactured for, for, uh, for, um, long length of install. Yeah, exactly.

[00:39:08] Eric Goranson: Just set it and forget it. Yeah, and you know, it's, it's, it's the conversation. We have, I'll, I'll do a lot of shows. We do one or two a year for people that are, you know, wanting multi-family stuff.

[00:39:17] Eric Goranson: Maybe they're, they're buying, uh, as an income property, maybe a, you know, a duplex or a quadplex or something like that. Again, those are the things where you need to spend that money. It's not more, you're actually spending the right amount of money and long term it. It's a thoughtless math to figure that out.

[00:39:34] Eric Goranson: Where that, where it comes back at

[00:39:35] Jeff Schulz: you. And even with, you know, single family builders, you look at a, uh, housing subdivision, right? So somebody drives up to the housing subdivision if they see a, and it takes you three or four years to build that sub subdivision. Yeah. Oh, I'm just gonna put wood fence around this subdivision.

[00:39:50] Jeff Schulz: By year two, that homeowner, that potential homeowner is driving up there and saying, Ooh, do they even take care of things? This, it's, it's gray. It's not. Yeah, so, so I mean it's that [00:40:00] perception as well. And it's great for contractors to know about the commercial aspect of Fortress, even if they're residential because it's that peace of mind to a homeowner that says, look, we're putting this in residential, but we're even doing so much commercial.

[00:40:11] Jeff Schulz: Imagine the touch, the field of longevity for commercial is now applying to your residential project.

[00:40:15] Eric Goranson: Absolutely. And I think, like for instance, you know, you've got those, uh, composite panels, those can be great fencing as well, especially if you've got road noise and things like that. Yeah. There is some, there's some properties.

[00:40:27] Eric Goranson: Do help. Yes. Send the neighbor, send it over to the neighbors. Sorry, neighbors. But at least it's, yes. You know, you can actually bounce the sound a little bit with that stuff too. Right. It's not like it's concrete. Right. But there's enough mass to it. I've noticed that it can make a noticeable difference on noise.

[00:40:41] Jeff Schulz: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you, you asked about decking. Tim, I don't know if you want to talk a little bit about our decking solution, our clouding solution? Yeah. From, yeah, let's get into that.

[00:40:49] Tim Sandlund: We offer two, two types a deck, right. Composite and a PVC decking. Yeah. Um, I, I'll talk specifically more about our pvc, which is our apex line of.

[00:40:57] Tim Sandlund: That's actually begging my parents put on it. I love it. [00:41:00] Yeah. It's, it's one of the more natural looking deckings out there. Um, the feel of it is incredible. So it's, it's capped twice Right. And they actually tear off. Oh, cool. As they hand scrape at the top layer of that cap, it gives a, a much deeper texture than most of the other pvc.

[00:41:17] Tim Sandlund: The other one, they have that kind

[00:41:18] Eric Goranson: of just light embossed and you look at it and go, well, there's no depth to it, but okay. I see what you're trying to do.

[00:41:23] Tim Sandlund: And you can feel it like, like you walk around on the deck and, and. I was talking to Bill, who's one of our, he's been in the decking industry for years, and you're saying yesterday that they've done testing in Europe on like slip resistance.

[00:41:35] Tim Sandlund: Our apex decking very similar to putting like the, uh, sorry. Hey, thanks. IQ tools,

[00:41:42] Eric Goranson: our location's all good.

[00:41:45] Tim Sandlund: Very similar black, uh, material down on stairs that mm-hmm. for slipper resistance, and it just comes natural with the way that that decking is manufactured. So with our decking, you can also use it for cla.

[00:41:57] Tim Sandlund: Yeah. Cladding applications

[00:41:59] Eric Goranson: and that is [00:42:00] so huge right now with cladding. Yeah. You know, put in that accent stuff, you know, you've got the, the, the black or charcoal house and you put the light clatting with the horizontal texture or something on it. It's huge in the contemporary. And of course commercial has been doing it for years.

[00:42:14] Eric Goranson: A lot of commercial stuff. Yeah. It's great. Well, one thing too, and I want to touch on this cuz it's something that we have out on the west coast, especially on the coastal areas that get a lot of rain, for instance, and I'm sure you see it in other parts of the country as well. But specifically for us, when we get through those winter months of rain, after rain, after rain, everything has this like slippery.

[00:42:34] Eric Goranson: Mossy haze to it and without that texture on a deck, when it's those ones that have that really light texture, you walk out on it after it being out there before you've had a chance to clean it. It's like an ice skating rink. It is. And that texture makes a huge difference on slipper resistance coming from into that springtime or when you're going outside, Hey, I'm just gonna go out to the hot tub cuz it's snowing out here.

[00:42:57] Eric Goranson: I'm gonna enjoy it. Right. That [00:43:00] texture could make a huge difference in that. Yeah. It.

[00:43:03] Tim Sandlund: You know, say you talk about safe area with life, right? Yeah. It's an opportunity on the side.

[00:43:11] Jeff Schulz: Yeah, that's key. So that is then R 13, which is the European floor, uh, slip resistance. Yeah. And so you think about not only that, but as we continue to see like aging and the certified aging in place, you know, all these different things.

[00:43:23] Jeff Schulz: Absolutely. So we've got this aging gener, these generations that, you know, it's an opportunity for them. You know, Hey, I want something that I'm not gonna slip on like Canada. I don't know. Others or not. But I slipped the first time in my life today. I slipped in the bathtub and I caught myself. Oh. And it's like, but I think about, you know, from a deck perspective, exterior, where you've got moisture, you've got rain, you've got all do all these different things.

[00:43:44] Jeff Schulz: So having that R 13 slip rating is great for even that. Anyone but certified aging in place where you start paying. I'm not saying it's a certified, you know what I'm saying? It's No, it's, it's smart. Thinking about that as we're building homes now, from that perspective, thinking about using that as an aspect for [00:44:00] someone who might be aging.

[00:44:00] Jeff Schulz: Right? Well, and

[00:44:01] Eric Goranson: right now, multi-generational housing is huge. Right. We all know that. We've been talking about it for a while, especially with everything from the, the younger people that can't find affordable housing to your grandparents. You're like, well, hey, they, they're gonna, They go into Retirement Village right now, , there's no way.

[00:44:18] Eric Goranson: But they're gonna be hanging out with us for a few years, you know? And so you're trying to find that happy medium and you get that, you get something that's beautiful, right? And safe, which is kind of the win for everybody,

[00:44:28] Jeff Schulz: right? Yeah. And so the green pattern too, so, and Tim touched on this a little bit, but I, you know, We're obviously gonna be a little biased, but having come from my background composites before coming to Fortress, I will tell you that grain pattern truly is the most realistic wood, wood look that I have seen on a non-wood board.

[00:44:48] Jeff Schulz: I mean, it, it truly is made that apex decking is, is, is great.

[00:44:51] Eric Goranson: Yeah. The, the pictures, you can't, you can't capture it in the, in the graphics as with any kind of camera. But when you. You can definitely see this is a different [00:45:00] made product than everybody else is doing. So what have we not touched on today, guys?

[00:45:05] Jeff Schulz: We talked about Tim wanting to shower for his neighbors. We've got that.

[00:45:09] Eric Goranson: We talked about use falling in the bathtub almost in the bathtub. Good personal. Yeah, exactly.

[00:45:17] Jeff Schulz: I think you, I don't if you wanna expand on maybe some of the other railing, Tim. I mean, so it's not just steel railing, uh, you know, whether it be cable, whether it be aluminum, whether it be glass.

[00:45:26] Jeff Schulz: Having that total. Of railing as well from residential, and I keep touching on that commercial, but you look at, um, our FE 26 plus for example, is rated to unlimited heights. So if you had a 200 story building, fine, I'm not seeing many, you know, but No, but you get 200 very. Yeah. It meets code to be on that 200 story and yeah.

[00:45:45] Jeff Schulz: And it's important, you know, so much goes into code compliance and code testing. Mm-hmm. , it's, that's something else for contractors and for homeowners to be concerned about that says, Hey, these products. Code. What if I put in this product, oh, maybe it costs a [00:46:00] little bit less, and then two weeks later it's like, oh, it's red tagged.

[00:46:02] Jeff Schulz: You can't use it because it doesn't meet code. So we spend a lot of time in focus on code for all of our products, um, including the rails.

[00:46:11] Tim Sandlund: Yeah. And to that, right? A picture was just sent to me yesterday with our aluminum mail, 13 plus. Okay. Which is our residential and commercial. Mm-hmm. . So it, it is, it rated for commercial applications.

[00:46:22] Tim Sandlund: Um, someone put it on their home and a massive tree, I think actually happened in your region. It was up in Washington. Um, a massive tree fell on the deck and the aluminum railing saved the entire deck. The tree landed, get out, landed on the AL 13 plus or aluminum commercial. Yeah. And saved the entire deck.

[00:46:41] Tim Sandlund: And that, that builder went out and looked at it. They have the, they have to obviously swap out a few panels, but the posts are so straight, the post are straight and the deck itself and the homeowner's like, this is the only thing that saved us from redoing this massive deck. And so, well, yeah,

[00:46:56] Eric Goranson: wood railing on that.

[00:46:57] Eric Goranson: Chopsticks, right? Yeah. I mean, it would've just, it would've just not even [00:47:00] known it was there. That would've gone right through it.

[00:47:01] Tim Sandlund: Right. And those are the things that I think you, you can't really plan for, right? Sure. But it, it's you, you choose between different products. You may find a product that's cheaper.

[00:47:08] Tim Sandlund: It may look very similar, right? Because from the design aesthetics. But are you, you taking a shortcut that things happen that you're not really aware of or you can't plan for it, be protected, right. Go with the brand, the company that is gonna stand behind their product. Yep. Right. We innovate and we build and we want it to last.

[00:47:25] Tim Sandlund: Yeah. That's. Down in the steel framing. All our other products are built to last and, and steel framing is that piece that is 98% steel wood. Well now we're changing that, right? Yeah. And, and you're seeing it. You can walk around this show. You do see alternative framing solutions. Yeah. A lot more than you saw last year.

[00:47:46] Eric Goranson: I think in five years, if I'm gonna make a prediction and it's not, cuz I'm sitting in your booth, I think wood framing is gonna become the alternative. Right. Just because this makes so much. That, I mean, right. ?

[00:47:59] Jeff Schulz: [00:48:00] Yeah. No, we, we agree. I mean, we, uh, we truly do, I mean, we spent about seven years really doing research on the product, traveling.

[00:48:08] Jeff Schulz: I don't, I talk about international, so traveling to international markets, traveling throughout North America, and really getting feedback on how we make that. System, um, you know, mass appeal for that system. And so we've really put that work into it. And we do believe, like yourself, glad to have you in the, uh, the Steel Nation camp there, that we, we truly believe it is a, it's a game changer for the industry and will become the norm, uh, in the not too distant future.

[00:48:34] Jeff Schulz: Absolutely.

[00:48:35] Tim Sandlund: That's important about that is, and Jeff alluded to it, like our team did a lot of work to build a system that allows contractors to build, like they were with wood. Yeah. Not only that, but every part and piece is fortress down to the screws, the brackets, um, nice. Every panel, right? Everything goes to Joyce, everything goes together.

[00:48:54] Tim Sandlund: It's all fortress. And we have the complete system when it comes to the evolution [00:49:00] framing system. You don't have to get parts and pieces from other manufacturers to, to put it together and it's, we're gonna warrant you. We're gonna stand by our product. Yeah. Hey, you can we talk about ease of buying, right?

[00:49:11] Tim Sandlund: Jeff? Talk about how easy it is to buy. Right? Well, now you just, you go and you buy everyth. Portrait from that framing and it builds like wood. And actually we talk about it, it builds quicker. Once you install the questions. People are actually installing it quicker than they would, it would frame, so any

[00:49:25] Eric Goranson: contract if they're building that deck right, is spending hours getting that plane for all those deck choice.

[00:49:33] Eric Goranson: Yeah. Right. Matched, right. I mean you, how many people do you watch now on, on Instagram? The challenge, the, the level challenge of my buddy started, you know? Yeah. How many of 'em

[00:49:44] Tim Sandlund: are at Steel

[00:49:44] Eric Goranson: Framing? Because it's gonna be perfectly straight. It's gonna be, that's the easy button was still framing, otherwise they're spending, you know, hours of time in which is either you're doing it as a homeowner, you're spending hours to do it or paying somebody to do it.

[00:49:58] Eric Goranson: Right. Just to get it there. And that's where that [00:50:00] makes the most sense guys. It just really does. Well man, thanks guys. Thanks for taking the time today. This has been great. And uh, I know our audience. There really appreciates learning more about steel stuff like this because that's really the wave of the future and uh, anything that lasts longer, saves the money in the long run.

[00:50:18] Eric Goranson: Kind of

[00:50:18] Jeff Schulz: simple that way. A hundred percent. Yeah. And we, you know, so we appreciate you having us and for all the listeners out there reach us if. Fortress bp.com. Uh, we'll have local representatives. We can have our internal team, whether it be specifications, we can help you with that project. If you're thinking, how do I try steel framing, for example?

[00:50:34] Jeff Schulz: Let us help you on that journey, uh, because it is, don't be intimidated by it truly is a, you know, people think. New products, I'm not sure. Cause the first time you do something new, usually it's like, this is what I see that this is, I only notice what's different. Like, yeah. But, but that second and third install, it's like, wow, this is great.

[00:50:50] Jeff Schulz: You get to that third install, it's, I get it. It is faster than wood. My tools aren't really different. I mean, I might have one, I have a different saw, and that's it. Everything else is working the same, so.

[00:50:59] Eric Goranson: [00:51:00] Amen. All right guys. Thanks for coming in and, uh, can't wait till next year to see what you guys have coming out as well.

[00:51:04] Eric Goranson: All right. Have a great day. Thank you. Appreciate it. All right guys. Thanks. And I'm Eric G. And you've been listening to Around the House