Hi, and welcome to the Animal Welfare Junction. This is your host, Dr. G, and our music is written and produced by Mike Sullivan. Today, we have our guest, Elizabeth Menegon. And she is going to be joining us to talk about proper dog selection in an attempt to keep animals from ending up in shelters. The shelter overcrowding epidemic is huge, and animals are being surrendered at no fault of their own. So we are going to be discussing the reasons why this happened, how we can help keep this from happening as consumers and as advocates. So thank you so much, Liz, for joining us today.

Thank you. Thank you for allowing me to share your platform.

To start, can you let our listeners know about your history, kind of your background, and what brought you to where you are today?

Sure. Well, it, it was a combination of things. Um, I am an animal lover. I always have had a dog since I was young. and during COVID, I was living in New York City, and I realized that seeing people coming out of their apartment buildings, people were owning dogs that were not apartment dwelling creatures. I was seeing, an unimaginable number of doodles, Labradoodle, Bernadoodles, Corgis, miniature Australian Shepherds. And I thought, God, don't people realize that these are not really apartment dogs. So, I went through COVID, and during COVID your brain starts to go in odd places because we were all quarantined. And I started thinking about my own life, and I do not have children. And... It was then that I decided I need to do something. I want to do something that makes a difference in the world. I didn't know what it was going to be at the time, but I knew that I could have gotten COVID and passed away. Like everyone else. I live three blocks from a hospital, so all I heard all night long was sirens and ambulances, and there's no reason why that wasn't me, basically. So I made the decision that, um, I was going to move out of the city. I had started a small business. I am not from the dog industry. Um, I'm actually make, my company makes organic products, lip balm, body balm, stuff like that. So I wanted to grow that business. So I left the city and this was in June. Um, it'll be three years in June. And in August, I was in my new apartment. And I thought I saw three miniature Australian shepherds from the lobby, the garage and going up to my apartment. And I thought, what is wrong with people? And I think I was saying this really out loud as I was opening my apartment door. I think I swore too. And I just basically said, what is wrong with people? Why aren't people buying the right dog? And I thought, well, there must be an app. There must be something that helps people. So I did some research. It was on a Wednesday. I'll never forget it. And I started to scrub around on the internet and what I found was nothing that would actually help you in the decision making process. So it was then that I realized, now I know what I want to do. I want to create something that is going to make a difference. And that is an app that will help people decide on the right. Breed of dog and getting that dog from the right source. And I knew exactly what I wanted it to be. I knew how I wanted it to function and I knew what I didn't want it to do. So I reached out to five developers and only one developer said, we must sign a nondisclosure. Don't tell anyone your idea. And it was like this, like a top secret, like, Oh my God, I was bursting at the seams. Because he said, you've got a great idea. So, that is how my journey started. And it started with creating Hands to Paws, which is the only mobile app in the world, basically, that does what my app does. And it is now available in Canada and also in the UK.

I think it's... funny how animal advocacy takes different forms and how you get the calling at different moments, right? You get that aha moment. And it's like, Oh, this is what I'm meant to do, right? You're, you're doing something completely unrelated to animal advocacy. And then all of a sudden, you see something that impacts you. And most of us are animal lovers. And you know, the research shows that most people consider animals as part of the family. We're not seeing them as property, even though in the law, They're still unfortunately seen as property. we see them as members of our family. But one of the sad realities is that a lot of people are choosing these members of the family without any true education. we were discussing about the fact that people spend more time researching. What kind of phone they're gonna purchase or what kind of television they're gonna get We're researching in depth things that are material that are, Short term type things and we are not spending enough time and effort researching A lifelong commitment, like a 15, 17 year, commitment.

Well, I think it, you know, we live in a very, um, get it now. Don't wait. In your face. Historically, pet stores. Where people would buy a puppy and the puppies are always in the window and the pet stores are always in a high traffic area. It's to get you in there are statistics that most puppy purchases are impulse purchases. So now you don't need to leave your house and go walking down the street after dinner and saying, oh, there is a pet store. Let's go in. You are seeing pop up after pop up Golden Doodle, Bernadoodle, Danadoodle and you're inundated with advertising and TikTok videos of these adorable shaved Pomeranians and so visually people are so overstimulated. It's very easy to fall in love with this adorable looking puppy. Click on the website and buy a dog, you can get that faster. That's a faster transaction than ordering a pizza. And I think that is where educating the public, um, needs to step in because it is an impulse purchase, but it's so easy.

I know many people that have said that they've gone into a pet store to buy food. Or to buy an item for a dog that they already have and of course everybody wants to look at the puppies that they have and then they end up with a dog and a $5,000 to $10,000 bill for an animal that they were not even prepared to have. And there are many reasons why they'll do that. They'll do it because the puppy looks cute. Sometimes they'll do it because they look at this dog and the dog looks sad or it looks sick and they. They think of it as rescuing, and what they're doing is inadvertently helping continue the, the puppy mill industry.

Correct. They fall in love. You know, you'll never see an ugly puppy, but there is methodology behind that. It's like a grocery store. Certain things are placed in certain places for you to purchase and they know when you walk into a puppy store and you admire or a puppy catches your eye, they're watching your body language and then they'll say, Oh, do you want to hold her? That's the kiss of death phrase. First of all, I tell people don't go into a pet store that sells puppies. You want to buy dog food. Go on Amazon. You want to stay out of pet stores. I can't go into a pet store. There's one near where I live because I'm going to handcuff myself to the door and tell them that these are all from puppy mills and I'll end up getting arrested. So, you know, me going in wouldn't end up well for the, for the store. But the first thing is, you Acknowledging where these animals come from and then staying away from where, where they are.

You know, we are big supporters of pet stores that don't sell pets, right? So, uh, facilities that sell all the food and they sell, you know, the collars and the toys and the cat trees and all of that stuff, but they acknowledge the fact that you should not be purchasing animals from a pet store. And there are so many reasons for that, right? So you don't know really what you're getting. There is this misconception that people get. I don't want to rescue a puppy. From a shelter because I don't know where it came from, like they think that buying a puppy from a pet store, they know where it came from just because it comes with some form of registration. Most of them, which are not from actual kennel clubs.

Exactly. That's a whole other conversation. I called someone out on that and then had a severe. Um, bullying issue on the, on our Instagram. Um, but that's another topic that we can, another podcast we can do. But yeah, it's um, you know, AKC registered means nothing. And let me repeat that. AKC registered puppies mean nothing unless you breed and show dogs. Period. That is it. It means nothing. It does not give valid, um, validity to a healthy animal, but mainstream America sees AKC puppies in the window and they think, oh, AKC. It's gotta be okay. And it isn't. It's, it's, it isn't false advertising. It's just it isn't. There is no value. And I think that, you know, it's like, it's like buying a product that says, you know, approved by the FDA versus not approved by the FDA, you kind of think, oh, AKC, it's okay. And it's not okay. And I just want to say 1 thing that is very important. Um, the American Kennel Club refuses to take a public stand and commenting on puppy mills. That is a travesty, and that only fuels sales and infuriates breeders that are responsible. Because if the AKC did take a public stand and say, you know what, enough is enough. Puppy mills are a real problem. If your history of over 120 years is breed integrity, it's not breed integrity. They've gotten around it by creating a companionship membership. So they've decided to capitalize on the market instead of saying, please don't. Please don't buy dogs online. Please don't buy dogs in pet stores. They've, they've capitalized on it. And I think that is shameful.

I think one of the important things as far as breed integrity is that some of these dogs are being bred for congenital abnormalities. And they're being sold under the guise that these are normal problems. And we have to understand that something that is common is not normal. Um, I recently, I, I run a spay and neuter clinic. And I recently had a dog that came in to have surgery to get neutered. This gentleman had rescued the dog from somebody else and the dog had a condition, what we call stenotic nares. So the dog's nose was so scrunched in that the dog could not breathe through its nose. And we called the, we called the owner to inform him about the condition and see if it would be okay to repair that while the dog was under anesthesia and he had no idea. He had no clue. And, and part of it became from the fact that He thought, this is how these dogs breathe. So it is normal. So we educated him, and we told him, it's not normal, it's common. And this is what this, this kind of irresponsible breeding is causing. Uh, and it's mostly, like, the backyard breeders, and the puppy mills, that are just breeding for volume, and for money, as opposed to breeding for actual breed standards, for proper breed standards.

Correct. And integrity. And I think that's the heart of the, the average American. So, so here's how this whole thing started after World War Two farmers that had families were suffering. And. There was the baby boom, people were buying homes, and you know, this is the 1950s and the early 40s. So puppy mills actually originated on farms. They used to call them puppy farms. They converted chicken coops into housing for dogs, which unfortunately, you know, 60 years later, people are still using. So, in order to oversee that, the Department of Agriculture was put in charge. So, if you had a puppy mill, and you lived on a farm, and it's the 1950s, you would register with the Department of Agriculture. Now, let's go to today, with the internet, the Department of Agriculture, who oversees the slaughter of pigs, chickens, and cows, is overseeing commercial dog breeding. Therefore, the people that are breeding these dogs have the same mentality and mindset of the people that are breeding the cows, chickens, and pigs. The only thing is, this is a house pet, but they're not animal lovers. They have no interest in the animal. They have no interest in the animal's health. And it all starts at that level, the animals that are going into pet stores. Are coming from an environment that would put myself or you in jail. It's legal animal cruelty. We would be arrested for those conditions. So, these animals that people are purchasing, they are born from mothers that have been fed. They, they literally take PVC piping. That you could buy at a Home Depot and dump holes, create holes and just dump the food in it. So they're given the poorest quality of food. So there is no dental care, there's no medical care, there's a lot of fraudulent documents. So what you're getting at a pet store is just, is a mystery dog. You may be buying a Chihuahua. But if you've ever seen what a real standard, what a chihuahua is supposed to look like, people are shocked. And, and, and we've done that periodically. We've placed a photo of, this is what a bulldog is supposed to look like. This is what we're breeding. And it's almost like a science experiment gone wrong. And people don't realize it is not, it is not normal. To see certain breeds, but they are being bred and overbred and overbred. And and this is what is this is what they're getting is sick animals. You know, every breed has its own inherent issue, right? Italian greyhounds have two issues. Plain and simple, um, Golden Retrievers can have hip dysplasia or any, um, uh, flat faced dog. So you've got that, that brachycephalic face. Right away, you still have issues. Pekingeses have issues with eyelids. So breeds themselves have their own issues. But when now they're poorly bred. And poorly bred and poorly bred. It just takes a bad situation and makes it a lot worse. And that is what backyard breeders and pet stores are selling you.

And in the concept of how these animals are kept, like I compare, I compare it to hoarding. Right, because a lot of these animals are kept in the same and sometimes even worse conditions than animal hoarders will keep these animals, especially like rescue hoarders and exploiter hoarders. But the overall difference to me is that the rescue hoarder and the exploiter hoarder Um, you know, they're, they're categorized as a animal crime, but then the way that the puppy mills keep these animals in similar conditions, it's being seen as a business and it's being legal as a, yeah, it's a legal, legal animal cruelty and legal animal abuse. Um, even though, again, they are, they're, they're lacking the five freedoms, the five fundamental animal freedoms in both cases, but one is legal and one is illegal. One is, and one is very purposeful, and in some cases, animal hoarders are not doing it out of malice. They're doing it out of a mental health condition. But we are tougher, we are so much tougher on the... 60 year old lady with the 50 cats that loves all those cats that can't see what she's doing is wrong. We are a lot tougher on her than we are on the puppy miller that is abusing all these animals just to make a buck.

Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's, I I think it is shameful. And I think it is shameful. That people are refusing to listen and take the, advice of people that know, you know, if your doctor tells you there's something wrong with you and you turn around and say, there's nothing wrong with me and you walk out the door. It's the same. It is no different. Then what people are doing with buying dogs online or buying designer breeds, you know, when you take a French bull and you breed it with a Chinese Crested, you have just given a dog a lifetime of medical issues. You've long gone taken that 15, 000 you collected, but you've left a family. With an animal that will have a lifetime of issues. And it's, it's, it's a backyard experiment and, If you want something that other people think is different, there are so many beautiful purebreed dogs. If you want to show Stopper Dog, there's a lot of breeds you can purchase. Not something that somebody bred and took so much money from you, that in itself should be illegal. So, I think there's a lot of dynamics to why people buy what they buy. Um, and I think even with the app, it asks you questions where people and I've attended events representing the app and people look at each other and they go, Oh, gee, you know, we never thought about shedding, which I have a huge issue with. So, you know, you look at people's reactions and they don't think it's cute. It look at that pop up, look at that adorable dog. They click on it and the next thing, you know. They're sending a deposit into the stratosphere. Who knows if they'll even get a dog?

I think we are, we are suckers to the word rare, right? Yes. So people will say, Oh, look at this rare color. Look at this rare breed. That's how we end up with the double merles that are deaf and blind. But people still breed them and buy them. Because they're so beautiful. And we are creating these animals that go through life, not being able to see the world or hear it.

Um,

we have, exactly, but they look pretty. We have the animals that have very short legs and it's like, or, uh, some of the Basset hounds with extreme deformities and people are like, Oh, look how cute and adorable it looks. Yet these dogs are in constant pain because their legs are not built right. So we are, we are kind of in. In looking at all of these rarities, we're really kind of, how do you say, encouraging this, this sale, this breeding and sale of animals that are meant to live a kind of a miserable life in some, in some cases, and not to say that every animal that is a different color or a different size or anything like that is going to suffer, but unfortunately, quite a few of these animals, these experiments, end up suffering.

Well, and I think that's education. So people don't realize that there are breed standards. So, we'll just take the American Kennel Club as an example. there are breed standards. So, when you see a French bull, it's either tan, brindle, or black. They're not merle, and they're not lavender, and they're not all these funky, crazy colors. And people don't realize that so when, when I try to address it or do a posting and say, okay, there's no such thing as a Doberman Pinscher with blue eyes and, you know, fuzzy hair, it's bred with. Um, God knows what people don't realize there are actual breed standards. So, an animal is bred to look a certain way to sell to you. It's no different than, than coming up with the latest designer handbag. I mean, people literally sit around and go, you know what? How about this? Let's take a chihuahua and breed it with a schnauzer and see what we get. Let's take a Jack Russell and breed it with a corgi. So there are so many animals you can buy from a breeder, which we can get into that are just stunning. Um, a toy fox terrier, a Russian toy, uh, a Pumi is a beautiful dog and it's, it's this fuzzy gray and when it puts its ears up, it's almost got hair like, like poofy. It almost looks like it would be a mix of something. But it is a pure breed dog. Um, an Azawakh is a beautiful hound. So, you don't need to go buy the backyard experimental dog to have a showstopper if that's what your, um, intended goal is.

I work with a lot of rescues at a lot of shelters and the shelter over population is such a huge problem and it is because people are getting animals that they, they can't care for, or they don't, they don't know what to expect when they're getting them. And there's, there's a big push, you know, I know that a lot of the people in rescue hear the word breeder and they're against all breeders. And I understand where that is coming from because the unfortunate part is that there are so many breeders and most of these are these backyard breeders, these irresponsible breeders. So, while I would love for everybody to first get their animals from their shelters and clear the shelters out, there are people that have specific, that have specific wants or needs and If you must get a dog from a, from a breeder, then it has to be a responsible breeder. And what makes a responsible breeder is somebody that has a veterinarian that's not doing their stuff themselves. It's somebody that has all the certifications as far as making sure that the joints are in good health, that the eyes are in good health, that these dogs have the minimal, uh, chances of having congenital and genetic deformities and problems. Correct. Because we don't want to continue on with all these, all of these genetic problems that we associate with breeds. just because they're being inbred over and over and over. So that that's kind of going to bring us back to how can we keep animals from going into shelters and that's going to be with proper selection. And realistically, whether it is a purebred or a mixed breed, we have to make Educated decisions and how we're going going to get these dogs. So let's start with the things that I think some people don't realize and which your app kind of helps. Uh, people kind of say consider which would be things like barking and drooling and size. So can you tell us the importance of all of these different, uh, parts of the selection process and picking up what dog you should get?

Sure. Well, you know, I think first of all, there's nothing like having the perfect dog that matches your lifestyle. Um, now we've been talking here the whole time, and people don't know this or can't see this, but I have this seven pound Italian greyhound that's been sound asleep in my arms the whole time. So this works for my lifestyle. So what's, I've had the battle, I'm, I'm the battering ram, I'm the one that takes the heads. People say all breeders are bad. Well, I can tell you that. When you get a dog from a breeder who breeds show dogs, you sign a contract that has various things in it, and one of them is, this dog under no circumstances can be given away or brought to a shelter. It must be returned. So, let's go, let's go back to the beginning. So, when you want to get a dog, sometimes people don't think about size, energy. Everyone loves a corgi. There's a trend. We also are very trendy in this country. The trends now are the miniature Australian Shepherds, anything with a doodle in it, and a corgi. if you download the app, you do have an option if you'd like to rescue, but let's stick with purebreed. So, you select purebreed, and you answer these 12 basic questions. Size. Energy. Drooling. Shedding. Stimulation. Now if you love a corgi, they love They're a herder. They need a job. Uh, if you don't want a shedding dog, Corgis shed, and they shed a lot. So, you know, all of a sudden the dog you had in mind isn't going to show up on what is recommended. Because once you answer the 12 questions, the algorithm then goes through all the dogs recognized. by the American Kennel Club. It's the same with the Canadian Kennel Club. They recognize some breeds that we don't. And it's the same with the app in the UK. There are some dogs that are the same, but they have a different name, or they don't recognize breeds that we do. So what the app then does is shows you the results of your profile of what you want. In a dog. So the things that you want or you don't want, you will get a list of these breeds. It may be a short list. It could be a long list, depending if you want a extra large dog and you don't care if it drools or sheds. You're gonna end up with Neapolitan Mastiffs, you're gonna end up with Newfoundlands. You know anything that's over the a hundred pound mark. But if you're very specific and you say, Hey, I'm single. I live in an apartment, you know, I want a mellow dog that is, I don't know, maybe we'll bark when the doorbell rings. If you live in an apartment and you just purchased a beagle from a pet store, because there's nothing cuter than a Beagle puppy. You're gonna, you're probably gonna end up getting thrown out of your apartment because they are barkers. So, when you get matched with a breed, you then click on the image of that breed. And you get to read a little bit more, but the best thing about this app is when you click on that, that image again, it brings you to the breed association website. They also call it a parent company. So anyone who breeds and shows. Either is the president of the club or a secretary or a director and they have their own set of bylaws and one of those bylaws is you cannot belong to the Italian Greyhound Club of America and be posting dogs for sale online. Can't do it. So, you're, you're brought right to that association. Now, the most wonderful thing about a breed association website is you get to read all about the breed. You get, they have their own rescue. Every breed has their own rescue group. You can find out about rescues. They also have retired show dogs. Now, when you get a puppy, and I can give you an example, my Italian greyhound came from a woman who breeds and shows Italian greyhounds in Rhode Island. There was all the paperwork. It is so expensive to show dogs because they have to have all of this testing done. So, when you buy from a breeder, their intentions are breeding for show dogs. Now, my dog was too small to be shown, so she was the perfect house pet. My dog was $1,100, which included her getting spayed and microchipped. I met a woman in New York City who bought an Italian greyhound from a pet store. She paid 5, 000 for an Italian greyhound. that also had parvo. Now the fact that the dog survived is, is beyond me. But here's a young girl who probably used a credit card and is now deeply in debt for a dog that was purchased at a pet store. So this is just one example of when you buy a dog from a breeder who's a responsible breeder. And when a breeder says, I'm not selling you anything until you come to me. So either you fly to Ohio or you drive to New Jersey. They want to meet you. They send you paperwork. You have to fill out because they may not even want to sell you a puppy. So, you know, I've had, I've taken a lot of hits from the adopt don't shop mentality. It's adopt don't shop online, adopt don't shop at a pet store. I'm not part of the problem. My dog would never end up in a shelter because I've agreed. that this dog must go back to the breeder. So when you see owner surrenders, most owner surrenders don't come from breeders who breed show dogs. You have to return the dog to them. No questions asked. They just take the dog back. So that's something people need to realize. I tell people, you know what, Download the app, see what breed works for you, and then, who knows, maybe you can, maybe you can adopt a show dog, a rescue dog, that you are given all the paperwork for the, for checking of the eyes, the heart, um, the hips, the joints, um, Italian greyhounds have a tendency to have epilepsy. It is very prevalent in this breed, so you don't, you know, people don't know what they're getting. I think everyone should foster a dog. Anyone who doesn't own a dog shouldn't foster. Just to see if you want to be a responsible owner. You know, there's an expense that comes with a pet. And when someone turns a pet to a shelter and says, Well, we just didn't realize how expensive it is. You have to put more thought into it because there are expenses.

You know, 24 Pet Watch did, uh, some research about the, where animals are coming into shelters. And they said that most of the, the majority of animals that are coming into shelters are acquired from the community. Meaning, like, backyard breeders and that kind of stuff. As opposed to... Uh, rescues and breeders and and some of that comes from resources So when you're going responsible responsible breeders and responsible shelters because there is such thing as responsible sheltering Are going to try to match the animal with the person as opposed to just saying I want a dog I want that dog. Okay, here you go. Here's the the adoption fee or here's the sale. Um You know, you have to have some responsibility in doing that because we, we get into this mentality that, you know, we can get whatever animal we want and then expect it to modify its behavior to what we require from them. And that's no, that's not how that works. And yes, every animal, every animal of every breed and even mixed breeds, they're all individuals. So not two animals are going to behave in exactly the same way. But there are going to be some breed predilections as far as what they need. That we need to be, that we need to be aware of so that we can set the animals and ourselves for success and not for failure. You know, that's, that's one of the, the problems that I have with the, with the pet stores selling animals, is that it's literally money making. So the person goes into the pet store, falls in love with a dog, it doesn't matter what kind of a dog it is, there is no knowledge of anything like that. Um, You know, usually I like the, the idea that you have to go to somebody's property to get an animal so that you can see the environment where that animal was raised. Uh, you know, people that are looking for purebred dogs, you always want to see the parents of the dog. You want to see how they're being care for. You want to make sure that they're not from a puppy mill or from a backyard breeder. So somebody that wants to meet you in the parking lot of the mall at 10 o'clock at night, that's sketchy, right?

With a wad of cash.

Right, exactly. So we gotta, we have to be a little bit smarter than that and how we are, how we are getting animals so that they're not ending up in, in shelters or abandoned or, and, and another problem that I see is how some people will get these animals that are a lot of work that are great, fantastic breeds. And again, even like the, the rescues, but they don't put the work. into them as they're young. And then you have this three month old puppy that is just play biting, but it doesn't get corrected because it's so cute. And then by 10 months, it's escalated from play biting to a little bit more aggressive biting. And then at that time, they decide, well, I don't want this dog anymore because it's biting. And then they dump it into a rescue for a behavior that could have been helped. Um, could have been modified, or the dog could have ended up in an environment where that is more, how do you say, where it can do what the breed was meant to do. Correct. So we, so we are just setting, I mean, overall we are creating the problem and we're not doing anything, anywhere quick enough to fix it.

Well, and again, it comes down to impulse purchasing, putting time into it and thinking, do we really want to do this? And, you know, the public has to be aware of. all the other scams that go on. When you see a French bull and it says for adoption, rehoming, and it's 7, 000, they're using the terminology because in the state of New York, if you sell more than eight dogs, you're considered a breeder and you have to adhere. To the, um, lemon puppy law, where if there's an issue they can bring it the dog back. There's an, they can manipulate the system. So it's actually, you're actually adopting a dog. So, so your listeners need to be aware if you see rehoming, Adoption, and it's not a typical two or three hundred dollar adoption fee, which is generally just to cover expenses. Total scam. It's a total scam. It's just a way to get around being responsible. Um, there's also something that is being done where you are a puppy mill. You are squalor, but you find a family that will foster a puppy. And then when you call, you go and see the puppy, but they send you to those people. So you're, you're like, okay, well, are you the owner? No, no, no. I want to see the owner. I want to see the parents. If you're in that position, then that dog is from a puppy mill. Because if you go to a house and there's one dog there, you're like, this is a puppy. Where are the parents? It's like, it's like temporary housing for a dog, because they don't want you to come and see where the dog is from. So, there are angles, but, but consumers need to be 1 step ahead and there are questions you can ask. Um, I don't think Instagram should be able to have a, a, a main pipeline. Um, I don't think Facebook, TikTok, they're all breeding grounds for selling puppies. Craigslist no longer let people sell. Now it's for adoption. But it's 8, 000. You're not adopting a dog, you're buying a dog. So consumers need to accept the fact, right? Accept the fact, if somebody tells you something, they're telling you because it's the truth. Don't put it aside and just buy that puppy online. If I have a friend and I found out they bought a puppy online, I'd have a heart attack. Because they know what I do. And they know that that's coming from a puppy mill. So it's all about educating your listeners, right? You stay out of pet stores. There are dogs that will not fit your lifestyle. If you're a jogger and you want a dog and you live in Miami and you want a dog that's going to exercise, why are you going to buy a husky? Or an English bulldog that's gonna drop dead in the backyard. You get yourself a saloogie. You get a, even a greyhound. You know, racing greyhounds in a New York City apartment. Are better than a corgi because they want to go out, sniff the air and go right back and lay on the sofa. They have no interest. Um, so I think that there is a huge difference. You do a disservice when you get a breed that does not match your lifestyle. If I had a Jack Russell running around my apartment, I would have a nervous breakdown. But if you can open the back door and it's running around your backyard, because they're pack animals, they love to dig holes. You're letting them do what nature intended them to do. And I think we forget we want to own something. There's something very interesting about human beings. We seem to want to own something. Whether it's people who own tigers and all these bizarre animals. Not every animal is meant to be owned. But when you do own an animal. And it's lifestyle and it's genetics match your life. It's, it's, it's a wonderful, happy experience. It doesn't end up in a shelter. And this is what people don't understand. They, they're like, la, la, la, yada, yada, yada. And then they go off and they buy a dog and they said, no, this doodle, we did our research. No, you didn't. You went to a website that looks like a website, that looks legit. You probably even spoke to a puppy broker. People don't realize that there are puppy brokers. You're talking to a lady on the phone who's so friendly. She's a broker. It's a, it's a middleman. It's like booking a reservation to go on vacation. If you want a dog, you go to the breed specific association, period, period. I don't care what it is. And then you can go from there. You may say, wow, I was actually matched with a chow. I wonder if there are any chows in shelters. Because then the app. You can select, um, rescue, answer the same questions, and it's tied into Petfinder, which Petfinder, I wish their platform was a little different, but at least you have an idea, and then you may be able to find something in a shelter, but every breed association show. does have their own rescue as well. So you can rescue the shelters are inundated. That's a, but you're seeing a backlash, not from COVID returns. You're seeing people that are experimenting. And dumping and also dumping adult dogs say, wow, this is way too much work. The only way to correct it is to educate yourself. It doesn't matter. 40 percent of people purchasing dogs. We'll purchase a dog that their friends or a relative owned or a neighbor. So if your neighbor has a Labradoodle and you're like, what a great dog. Oh, call our breeder. You've now just purchased another backyard breeder dog. So there are statistics on buying habits. But you may want a dog that has absolutely would never work for you. And there is a question about, do you have other pets, dogs or cats? Some some animals are not good with other animals. So I think it's you do a disservice To get the wrong animal.

Yeah, we want to we want to manage behavior too much with pills. And that is that is another pet peeve of mine when people will have a dog that is an active dog. And it's like, well, it's anxious, or it's, you know, I need something to calm him down. It's like, no, you need to take the time and exercise, you need to take the time and take him for jogs or for runs, or put him in doggy agility classes. Like, we can we cannot solve the animal behavior. Problems with just popping animals with pills. And the other thing is age. A lot of people want a puppy, and they don't understand all the work that comes with having a puppy. I've always been very lucky that The dogs that I have gotten have been puppies, but I work in an environment where my dog can come to work with me every day. It's socialized, it sees a lot of people, it can be walked outside, uh, frequently throughout the day, so I have the resources to raise a puppy. properly, right? As far as socialization, as far as, um, potty training and all of those things. But not everybody has the time to raise a puppy and that's okay. So there are places where you can rescue or purchase animals that are a little bit older. And then you have an animal that you, you kind of know what you're getting and it's not as time consuming in the training process. So you can still give an animal a home, give an animal a good home without running the risk of not raising them properly. And then, you know, having them end up with behavior problems or other issues that, that end up in the shelters.

And again, that's education. You know, I commented on, um, a photo on Instagram where they gave grandma a puppy. Well, as lovely as that is, Grandma can't take care of a puppy. So there are wonderful, older, smaller breeds that just want a lap to sit on and live the rest of their lives. You know, a lot of older dogs that you see in shelters. Um, come from owners who have passed away. No arrangements were made. No family members wanted the dog. So, it was, I don't know, a family member, the attorney, whoever was in charge of the estate, just dumped it in a shelter.

So people need to understand consumers need to understand the power that they have over the supply and demand, right? So if we, if we stop the demand. Then the supply has to dwindle and and the sad part of it is that there are going to be some animals that are kind of stuck in the middle, while, you know, the, the demand goes away that supply has to go somewhere. Um, so, and that's what I think we're overall afraid of is what's going to happen to the. Thousands hundreds of thousands of animals stuck in puppy mills during that during that part. But realistically, we have to put a stop to it. And the only way to do it is to be educated. Stop purchasing from from poor sources from puppy mills from pet stores and do our homework. And when doing homework. There's this thing called confirmation bias, right? Some people do their homework based on what they want to hear based on what they want to find. So instead of saying, you know, it's a, uh, it's a Dalmatian good for me. It's more of, I want a Dalmatian. Are people like me okay with Dalmatians? And then they will find like the one or two cases where a Dalmatian is perfect in that, in that scenario. And they're like, oh, there it is. Um, so we have to, we have to know in doing research, we have to do research from appropriate sources. People need to talk to their veterinarians, talk to proper trainers, not the... You know, run of the mill people that call themselves trainers, they need to speak to people that are experts in the field prior to making these decisions so that they can make a good educated decision and can end up with a lifelong member of their family, not uh, a disposable being.

Hands to Paws has a spokes dog. named Stripe. And Stripe is our spokes dog against buying puppies online. And I recommend anyone to go to our website, which is www. hands2paws. com you will see Stripe, um, the ad for Stripe that the girl responded to, and Stripe's DNA. And... Cassandra, who is the owner of Stripe, was so gracious. She bought him online. He came from Ohio, as a matter of fact. He was half... Chinese crested and half shih tzu. So she drives her buffalo to Ohio, picks up this adorable dog that they said looks like Yoda, great with kids. Non shedding all the buzzwords to get your attention. Adorable looking dog. I would've purchased him myself. She did a D n A, he turned out to be, I have to remember offhand now, um, 30% shihtzu. He was, um, Yorkshire Terrier, Poodle, um, Chihuahua. And 7 percent Chinese Crested. So we made him, we made him the spokesdog because he represents that online purchase. He is not a Chinese Crested Shih Tzu. He's a mix of four other dogs. So then it leaves the conversation open to, well, wait a minute, that's fraud. How many people are being ripped off? So again, you have one simple, you think talking about buying puppies online is a simple thing. It opens up a whole dialogue of fraud. And theft never buy a dog online. Beware of the adoption rehoming scams. Adoptions are not 7, 000. Rehoming fees are not 7, 000. You are selling dogs. You are buying a backyard breeder dog.

Yeah, we see, uh, that concept here in Ohio with puppy flippers, right? That's right. People that get dogs, that get dogs and then they say, we rescued this litter. And we are finding them homes, and then they're under the guise of a rescue, but they're not really a rescue, because they're selling these dogs. And, and somewhat relatively inexpensive, because they will sell them for three to five hundred dollars to match kind of what rescues are going for. But all they're doing is just buying litters, like the people that have the signs of free puppies or whatever. They'll go, they'll get them, and then they'll flip them. So again, as consumers, we have all the power, so we have to be educated, we have to know what we're doing, and we have to advocate for the animals, because in the end, that's what it's all about, it's about animal welfare, it's about proper care of these animals. I, I've actually been part of investigations with HSUS with their puppy mill campaigns and they are amazing campaigns because they do undercover work to expose how these animals are kept, the cruelty that goes in both the, the puppy mills, as well as the pet stores that are selling these animals and how the consumers undergo fraud. So, you know, I know that, you know, HSUS is doing a good, a good job at attempting to educate people as far as the puppy mills and not purchasing from them. Um. And trying to crack down on the backyard breeders, that's where that horrible hundred list comes from, right? Just a compilation of all the things, because we have to, again, as consumers, we have to go in, eyes open, and understand what the problem is, understand how we are... perpetuating this problem and then figure out together a way to, a way to stop it. And it's really not going to stop until we stop buying dogs from, from these horrible sources.

I wouldn't buy a car online. I hate buying shoes online, let alone a living, breathing creature.

Yeah, that's a, that's a good point. Like, I won't buy jeans online. I go to the store to buy jeans because they all fit different. It doesn't matter if it's the right size, if it's the right brand, if it's something that I've been buying for years and years, I'm going to go to the store and try the clothes. That's right. So, yeah. It's, it's a, it's a really good point. We don't know what we're getting when we, when we are purchasing. So yeah, it all starts with education, uh, consumer power, and then, uh, supporting laws that make sense, uh, supporting advocacy groups that are looking to, to better the. the well being of animals in general. hopefully this has given people enough information. Um, and enough education again, not just the information that we have talked, but also resources to look and and become educated. And we all have the power to make a difference. So, I mean, I want to thank you for taking this time. and sharing your thoughts with me and having this discussion about how we can help promote responsible pet ownership and decrease the number of animals that are surrendered. And, uh, to everybody that's listening, I hope that this has been helpful and I want to thank you everybody for listening and thank you for caring and thank you Liz for being here.

Thank you and thank you for giving me an opportunity to try to get it's a lot of information, but at least we can get it out there. Thank you.