All right, welcome to the Sell By Being Human podcast.

I'm your host, Alex Smith, and this is the podcast where we learn from people in all walks of life who sell things through the lens of human connection.

I believe we can learn human skills from people all around us.

And this is the place where I'll be bringing the very best of those people together.

And we have one of those people here today.

I love this person, this person I met through the Outlier project.

Again, just so many outliers we've had on this, on this podcast.

But this person, her journey went from CNA to CEO and all sorts of things in between.

She's been in clinical settings, she's been an rn, but then she, you know, just most recently, she's also been in operational settings of healthcare organizations and then just recently made the move a couple years back to be an entrepreneur.

So this person's her own boss.

She runs a podcast, she does keynote speaking.

This woman does so many great things, and she does it through her unique lens of human connection.

I can't wait to share some of her skills with all of you.

Please welcome none other than Sunny Linebarger to the podcast.

Welcome, Sunny.

Thank you so much.

Delighted to be here with you, Alex.

Awesome.

Well, Sunny, one of the things that we were talking about beforehand is it's interesting to me that you're only like the second nurse that we've had on the podcast, because people would never look at nurses and be like, they're in sales.

But we can talk about why that myth maybe isn't true.

So we'll talk about your career as a nurse and how you've connected with people and what you're selling as a nurse and care and that sort of thing.

But let me just ask you, Sunny, when you hear the term of the podcast and I say to you, sell something, but sell it by being human, what does that mean to you and what comes to mind when you hear something like that?

Yeah, absolutely.

So that just goes to the heart, I think, of healthcare.

When I think back to the fact that humans taking care of other humans and the act of compassion and the act of humanity in that everyone is selling something all the time.

We may not think it, we may not feel like it, but we are always selling something on the healthcare side of things.

It's selling care, it's selling in the hospice space, a really positive end of life experience.

And so everywhere I've gone, I probably didn't realize it at the time, but I was selling.

And so I think it is like Honing in on what your craft is, pouring your heart into it, having a sense of passion and compassion around it.

And then whatever you're doing, you're exuding.

Selling that to the audience in which you're providing those services or care to.

Yeah, I love how you say like honing in our craft and just, you know, what you're exuding.

That's a word I don't hear a ton because you know, if you kind of think back on it, if any of anyone listening to this has ever been in a hospital or even worst case, been around a loved one that's been in end of life care or something like that, it's a difficult situation to say the least.

And the person probably receiving that care, I'm sure, Sunny, you're not, you know, there, there are times where the person maybe doesn't want your care even though you want to give it.

Right.

And so you have to somehow show them in a way that, that they can realize it's, it's, it's, it's to their benefit or that they feel cared for.

Right.

They need to feel there's a difference of you thinking that you're caring for someone and someone feeling cared for and safe.

Can you talk a little bit about how you would approach things?

Like, I mean this goes to like just, I'm sure why you got into the profession as just a, like you know, even as a cna, just what, how you thought about it like making someone feel cared for.

Yeah.

It takes me back to my very first days.

So I out of high school, I was determined to major in psychology.

I've always loved the study of the mind and why and how people do what they do.

And what my mom recognized was it's going to be a little bit before you make some money, so why don't you have a backup plan?

So in all of my 18 year old wisdom, knowing everything in the world, I was like, I don't need a backup plan.

She goes, well, why don't you get your CNA license?

And I said no.

And she goes, well, what if I pay for it?

And I was like done.

That's all?

Yeah.

So I go through this class and let me tell you, you can go through the training all day long.

But as an 18 year old, I was not equipped from a training perspective to understand what I was about to step into.

And so I did it as a backup plan.

And what I did is I signed up with a registry.

And for anyone who doesn't know what that is, it is when anyone In a facility or an assisted living anywhere where you care for people, a retirement home, when their normal staff doesn't show up, they pick up the phone and they call a registry and they say, hey, we had somebody who didn't show up.

I need you to send someone out.

So you go where you don't know anyone, where you don't know any of the patients.

Every single day is something different.

And it's not always the nicest of places.

And so typically when I would be called out, I would get a call at 5am, hey, you got to be here at 6am and it was going to be in a skilled nursing facility that I wouldn't place a loved one in.

It smelled, it was a sad environment and people were propped up in chairs in different places.

And I thought, oh my gosh, what have I gotten myself into?

And then to mention, when you go in, it's not like everyone's saying, hey, we're happy to help you any way we can.

They're like, you have the heaviest load.

The people who hit and bite and punch and scratch and cuss.

Good luck.

I don't know if this is worth the money.

It was an absolute wake up call.

Like, holy cow, what am I doing?

But I will tell you, and I still remember and I can close my eyes and I can see this woman's face.

And there was a little old lady, very demented, very far progressed Alzheimer's.

And she was contracted.

And what happens when someone is contracted is their hands.

Oftentimes they kind of pull them into the core and they're really tight together.

If someone doesn't take the time to clean inside of their hands, you can get infections in there, you can get skin breakdown, wounds, all kinds of terrible things.

And I thought, oh, what am I going to do?

No one's going to help me with this.

So I've got to just kind of take my time.

And so I started talking to my patients because I didn't know any better, probably.

I didn't probably know the state that they were in.

I talked to them as if they could fully understand what I was saying.

And so I tell this patient, I'm going to get you up in bed and I'm going to give you a bed bath and I'm going to get warm water and I'm going to start washing your hands.

And so I started just telling her what I was doing.

And so I started soaking her hands in warm water and just taking my time and being gentle.

And lo and behold, her hands started to open up.

A little bit, not fully, but they started to relax.

And I was able to get in there and clean really well, which someone hadn't done in probably weeks.

And all of a sudden, I saw this woman who did not know day from night.

I saw her start to relax and be a little bit more at peace.

Instead of somebody just kind of rolling you around, changing you, getting, you know, washed up and.

Yeah, well, like, transactional.

And so I.

After that, and I can remember this woman.

And after that, I thought, you know what?

Every time I go into a place like this, there may be someone who hasn't had anyone come visit them.

And so my whole goal is for the eight hours that I spend there is that may be the best eight hours of their day or their week or their month or their year.

And so I will leave them better than I found them.

And that was kind of the entree into my heart.

Just my heart was, like, anchored with these people.

And I thought, holy cow.

I think I actually really love this.

And it was hard.

Some of the hardest work I've ever done at the CNA level, which is like a nursing assistant.

They're the ones who go in and feed people and change them and change the beds and change diapers.

Sometimes it's not the desirable stuff, and you're paid the lowest, and you're on the bottom level of the ladder, if you will.

But I tell you that that formed a path for me, both from a humanity perspective, but also just in my ability to care for people and, like, talk to people about what I'm doing along the way, how to communicate with patients and families, the people that I was working with, that really laid a foundation for me that would just carry me through the entire.

My entire career.

Wow.

I mean, you know, I think what I, like, probably don't realize, what a lot of people don't realize, is that, you know, when your focus is just that, it's not about, like, the tasks.

Right?

Like, the tasks are the things.

Right.

But if your drive is like, I'm gonna leave someone better than I found them before, like, that could be anything.

But then you're realizing, like, yeah, like, that combined with the fact, like, this could be, like, what.

What are the situation I'm dealing with?

Like, you're really, like, super aware of, like, your surroundings.

Like, these people may not, like, have had anybody spend this much time with them.

Like, the time and the care, like, they can feel that, like, the stuff that you're doing is just the stuff that needs to be done, but just the fact that someone is.

Is willing to talk to them, to.

To pause with them, to talk to a family, to explain what they're doing.

I think that they're like, oh, my gosh, like, you know, the person before could have easily just been like, I'm going as the soonest I can get in and get out and do my job and take my paycheck is what I'm going to do.

And.

And when you see something different than that, that's when you know again, that human connection is formed.

And the.

The sale you made is just, I.

I'm going to be here for you, right?

And someone is there for you, Right?

It's the experience, right?

It's the experience.

That's what it taught me, that experience would change as I grew in my career.

But it's really about the experience that you're providing, the ability to convey what that looks like, to paint a picture so that it is so clear they can see in their mind what you're going to provide to them or what that journey is going to look like.

And I think that helped me.

I didn't know at the time, but that would help me as I would end up moving into the C suite and being the chief operating officer for a national healthcare company.

That would help me in not just talking to other executives, but that would help me in.

We would start acquiring companies, and I would have to go out and meet with these other companies and their leaders.

And anytime you go through an acquisition, people are always keeping a real close eye on what are you doing.

It's the unknown.

It's scary.

And so I would be the face who would go out, because I have a gift, through experience and time and wisdom, to be able to paint what that experience is going to look like and to personally connect with people.

Mm.

What do you like?

I always like to think of, you know, kind of.

I mean, I know that experience taught you a ton.

Do you think anything else, like, you know, kind of equipped you either, you know, people growing up or things that you saw, you know, people that you interacted with, like to kind of help you along that path?

Like, I'm just curious where people kind of pick these things up.

Are these skills just by experience, or are they also skills you've watched in other people as well?

Yeah, well, growing up, I was raised by a single mom, and so my mom cared for my brother and I, and she oftentimes worked three jobs.

We probably didn't know the level of poverty that we were at, but we would, you know, we would have to go to the food bank to make sure that we had food to last us for the full amount of the month.

I didn't, I don't know that I fully recognized it at the time, but man, I would, I think, learn a, learn to have a sense of work ethic like most don't.

From watching my mom, you know, she struggled and she sacrificed and, but always like, it was never like poor us or this negative mindset.

It was always like this is, this is what we got to do, you know, to get through.

And so I think by watching her navigate all that she did with really so much grace, I think that instilled a lot into me.

And then I think I've always had just a sense of a deep empathy.

I remember when we moved from New Mexico to Arizona, it was a heat like I had never experienced before.

And when we first pulled in, like first pulled into Phoenix and it was in the dead of summer and I hadn't really been exposed to homeless people before.

We lived in a small town in New Mexico and I just hadn't really seen like a large amount of homeless people on the road.

And I thought, oh my gosh.

So my mom had this little orange Nissan truck, a little two seater truck, and we're pulling into downtown Phoenix and I'm like, mom, they're out in the heat.

Like, they can't be out in the heat, it's too hot.

And I'm 8 years old and she's like, well, like this is Arizona and the heat is going to be, you know, a whole lot more than we had been used to.

And so I made her turn the air conditioner off and roll the window down.

And I said, I can't.

We can't have air conditioning if they can't.

Like that was in my mind, like that was the way to write that was we are not any more entitled to that than they are.

And so we need to turn ours off and roll the windows down.

And she did.

But it was like, that was the weird sense of empathy I had as a little kid that I would learn to foster that again and like polish that as I became older.

Thankfully, you know, I hadn't planned on going into healthcare, never wanted to be a nurse or doctor.

And so I think it was a divine path that I was being led down.

I just, you know, wasn't fully filled in on it.

Wow, love that story, man.

So talk to me a little bit Sunny.

I mean, you, you have this career in, in the healthcare setting, clinical settings, hospice care, to really like emotional Things like, how have.

Because I know a lot of times I've heard, you know, people say sometimes, like, difference between empathy and sympathy and, you know, trying to, like, take on the emotions of someone fully.

Right.

Like, that's not something we're designed as human beings to do, but we can sit there and listen and understand and do our, you know, very damnedest to.

To understand someone.

Right.

You know, an empathy.

How did you kind of like someone, like, seeing some really tough things?

How do you.

How did you kind of.

I don't know if the right word is compartmentalized, but how did you handle, like, all of the emotions in a healthcare setting while still be being empathetic to the people on the other side?

Yeah, I think I probably had some blurred boundaries early on as a hospice nurse, because you're walking through people.

You're walking people and their families through the last chapter of their life.

And I always saw it, I always really framed it like such an honor that I had the opportunity.

And you build relationships with people.

So it's not like working in the hospital where you have one patient, one shift, and by the time you come back to your next shift, they're probably not gonna be there.

So you build deep relationships and bonds with people.

And so there were probably some blurred boundaries.

And I probably, you know, did too much and got too close to people.

But I think there's.

I think that is the struggle for a nurse sometimes, especially people who are really, really kind of that empathic or very empathetic.

But I think then it got.

I was also, back in the day, it's funny, I laugh now because nurses now, it's like you just take care of your patient when the patient is admitted onto a service.

Like, somebody else does that.

When a patient passes away, somebody else goes and tends to that.

And when there's something happening on the weekend, someone else goes out and handles that.

When I was providing bedside care, we did it all.

And so if somebody had something excruciating pain on the weekend, I got in my car and I drove over to them.

Like there wasn't like a Monday through Friday, 8 to 5.

And so I think that, you know, was a little bit hard as well.

But I just, I just.

I look back on what a gift that was.

And you, you go through some really challenging things because not everyone, you'd like to think that everyone has a great end of life experience.

That's not the case.

I have had some really, really hard deaths.

And I sat there with those patients, and sometimes they were writhing in Pain.

And that is one of the most difficult things to see.

You know, I see sympathy as you feel bad for something that is occurring.

And empathy is.

You feel the pain.

You know, you feel the emotions that they're experiencing.

And so to sit with someone knowing that you can't fully control their symptoms, sometimes, that's really hard.

That's hard on the heart, that's hard on the mind.

But you're still present, and you do everything you can to help them through that.

And then on the other end of the spectrum, I've experienced some amazing deaths, which sounds so weird, but I distinctly remember I got a call from a patient's family, and they said, we think mom has passed.

And I said, okay, I'm gonna head over right now.

And it's 10:30 at night, and this didn't happen to me, my patient.

So it wasn't someone I was familiar with.

And so I'm trying to find my way.

It's nighttime, and I go, and I hear all of this noise and laughter, and, like.

So I kind of go through this back gate, and I see this big table, and it's filled with bottles of wine and wine glasses.

And I knock on the door, and I go in, and it's the entire family there, and they are reminiscing, and they are laughing and sharing stories.

And mom had passed, but they all got to be present for it, and they didn't see it as something that was this terribly, horribly sad thing.

I'm sure that the thought of losing her wasn't wonderful, but the fact that they could be there and experience it with joy and reminisce about her life, and I thought, this.

This is an amazing death.

This is a wonderful death.

And so it's like navigating those types of things.

And then, you know, I think with, again, experience and maturity, you start to learn to handle things better and differently.

But, yeah, it is you.

You navigate the hard ones.

And, I mean, there were many a times I didn't cry with them there, because that was the one thing I was told in training for hospice, was you can.

You can console them, but they shouldn't be consoling you.

Like, you always want to make sure that you're present for them.

So there were many times as soon as I closed that door on the way out to my car, I was bawling because, you know, you may.

I may have taken care of this person and seen them five to seven times a week for the last four months.

And you build relationships with those people.

And so you do you do kind of grieve in your own way, but at the same time, you know, again, I think my faith allows me to believe that it's not a.

It's not a terrible thing on the other side of it.

Yeah.

Wow.

I mean, you know, like, I just think the repetition of seeing, like, the different sides of things, and that teaches you a whole lot.

I mean, you know, it's how to console people.

It's not getting, you know, like, setting boundaries and things like that.

But I like that distinction of, you know, feeling bad for someone versus, like, trying to, you know, sit with them and feel for them or feel, you know, kind of what they're.

You can bring back in your own experiences, you know, emotions that they're feeling.

Right.

And try to sit and understand them.

Right.

So tell me a little bit.

So you go to this.

You go from this really intense, emotional, like, healthcare setting to now all of a sudden, okay, I'm going to get into the business side of things, and not having any real background in that or training and operations or anything like that, but someone gives you a shot.

Tell me, you know, kind of, what are you.

What are the skills you ended up taking with you into to that setting, and what did that look like when you were, you know, first starting out and learning that?

Because I feel like a lot of people may not kind of realize how transferable some of those skills really are to maybe a boardroom or something.

Right.

I really prided myself on being an expert on the clinical side of things, but that was really.

I knew that, and I knew it well.

But as far as anything outside of that, I didn't really know what the rest of the business entailed.

And so when I.

There was an operations position open, I thought, I really want to learn more about the business.

How does.

How does all of this stay afloat?

How do all these departments work together?

I know what it's like to oversee the clinical side of things or to provide that patient care, but how does the rest of the business work?

And so I went in, I ended up getting an operations role.

No reason other than I think probably I went in and said, hey, I'm super interested in this.

I will say up front, I have no operations background whatsoever, but one thing I will tell you is I will run circles around anyone else who goes for this role.

And, you know, sometimes it's just about putting yourself out there and betting on yourself.

And so I did that.

I ended up getting the role and moved into operations, which was really overseeing instead of just kind of the clinical line of or arm of the business was really overseeing everything, Right?

So from a financial perspective, having P and L responsibility.

And the funny thing as I look back now is going over a set of P&L's and analyzing it today is like, one of my favorite things.

It was my biggest fear moving into operations was I had no idea how to read a P and L.

What did the financials, what did it mean?

And so my mentor at the time, I said, hey, this is my biggest fear.

And he kind of chuckles and he's like, you know, I can walk you through this in an hour.

And he goes, but it's funny that you think that's going to be your biggest challenge.

And so it was really about learning how all the elements work together, Learning and conveying how, let's say.

And again, this almost comes back to that selling side of things.

So clinical never thinks that they have a sales hat on.

So they think, hey, our side of the world is to care for patients.

But at the end of the day, yeah, you have patients who are taking medications that we pay for.

And so that's actually a line item on the P and L.

And so do you feel like you're responsible for that?

Do you feel like it's like all of these things that you can weave in and teaching them and conveying it in a different way allows them to recognize, okay, hey, maybe I do have some more responsibility outside of just this part.

And so I would learn finance, I would learn sales, started going out with some of the salespeople, started even training some of the salespeople.

Funny again, to Ellen, never thought, I can't sell.

I don't sell.

That's not what I do.

And today I go around and I teach a lot of sales and marketing for hospices throughout the country, and it's all of those.

But it's like really taking in the lessons and being able to absorb them and fully understand what they mean to the different parts of the business.

Right.

And so how to.

If clinical and sales can come together, what does that look like?

And what can everybody learn out of that?

Operations, you know, all of these things.

And so it's learning to pull the levers on how you need to make a change in the business, and how does that impact the rest of the departments in the business and then getting everybody.

You know, I think as I grew in my career, it was about learning how to cast a really bold vision.

And when I had my clinical hat on, only I would have never thought about a vision.

But as I moved into operations, then it was like, okay, I need to cast a bold vision and I need to sell it so well and paint that picture so clear that other people it's not, they don't even know if it's possible because it hasn't happened yet.

Right.

It's a future that doesn't yet exist.

And so if I can paint that really clear to them, they're going to want to be on board and lock arms with me to execute and make this vision happen.

And so I think it's, it's about weaving in all of those things together.

Yeah, I like how you say like just making it clear and asking people, like I think everybody can ask themselves if they don't think they're, that they're in sales.

Like ask the, you know, what do I do on my day to day that affects the business?

You know, they affects the profit or loss margin of this business.

You know, even just the tasks of what I do in my day or what, you know, products I'm contributing to that other people are selling.

You know, maybe like have a quota to sell for.

Like there's always something that you're doing that's affecting downstream, you know, cash changing hands, let's say.

So I like that kind of view of it, like asking those kinds of questions.

What are some of the things like even now before you became an entrepreneur you were consulting and maybe you still do.

Yeah, consulting, you know, hospices and health care organizations.

I'd love to know kind of what are some of those us, you know, what are some of the key things that you're kind of training like a sales team at it, like say, you know.

Yeah, a healthcare org or hospice on.

What are some of the things you think that they appreciate the most or they learn the most from somebody?

Like with your background, with a clinical setting and you know, COO operations setting, what do you think that they're taking away the most from?

Yeah, a lot of times it's really about having, it's a fresh set of eyes coming in and taking a look.

So I work with small and medium sized hospices all over the country and it's anywhere from clinical to operations to sales.

But a lot recently has been focused around sales and so that may look like going in and talking about strategic growth.

You know, a lot of these companies, the really surprising thing is there isn't a strategic plan, there isn't a real growth plan in place.

It's like, well, we hired these people, they had previous relationships and we're kind of just Going with that.

Well, what does that mean?

Right?

And what is that yielding your business thus far?

Or can we put a little bit more structure around this and allow for it to be something with a whole lot more intention?

Right.

If somebody has a book of business of 50 accounts and they're randomly going out with no regular cadence or intention set, like oh, I'll just, I'm on this side of town so I'll go see this person.

No, like let's build a schedule and let's have pre call planning.

You know, it really, it's, it's just like any other sales role.

Like let's be really focused on what, what is that desired outcome.

And so it's really getting like strategic around what their growth plan is and having them put a plan and process into place.

And then when they do that, a lot of it is really about like the engagement and the communication of that salesperson.

And so the most painful thing yet the most productive thing you can do is role play.

And people absolutely hate it.

They hate role playing and I always hated role playing.

But I will tell you, if you push through the uncomfortability in role playing, light bulbs, come on, you get better at what you do.

It's like what we were talking about before we hit record, which is putting the reps in and what we do.

Being willing to suck at something for long enough to get better at it.

And if you are willing to put in the work and start out and not have great conversations, but then you're able to level up your conversations a little bit or by working with me you're able to say oh, okay, I didn't, like I was never asking those questions.

Questions I didn't.

And you're not getting past the gatekeeper either.

You know, maybe let's, let's try this and let me know how it works.

Or I'll even go out on site and I'll observe their conversations in person and then I provide feedback and guidance.

I may, I may interject a little bit in that like in the present moment.

And it's really get about getting them to think differently.

Because sometimes someone who comes in to hospice as a salesperson, selling an end of life experience is not always the easiest thing.

And if you don't do it with a sense of compassion and you do it with like the kind of schmucky sales like you're going to get thrown out on your ear.

Right?

Because that's not what people want.

It's all about the fundamentals of sales.

You know, they want to like, know and trust you.

And if they can like know and trust you and build a relationship with you, you're going to build up their confidence.

And after building up their confidence, because they sent you a referral for a patient who needed care and you did, you did right by them and you got, you know, the team out and they provided a great experience, they're going to remember that and that's going to build their confidence.

And so the next time that situation comes up and they say, hmm, I know there's a hundred hospices to refer to, but I had an experience with this person and so I'm going to call them.

And that's really what sets you apart.

And so it's like, it's really going over some of the fundamentals.

But sometimes people get put into roles and it's like they don't get that fundamental.

Basic one on one sales training.

Yeah.

I always love to say, like every call you have with the client or every time you're in front of someone is a chance to either build trust or erode it.

You know, and if you can build trust and you can build it over time, it can take, you know, years to build it or months or weeks, but you know, it can take just one little thing, thing or one thing to really erode it and take it away.

So doing that, building confidence, when people are confident in you, they trust you and like you say, they think about you and they know that, yeah, you would know that you have their back and that they are somebody that you can, they'd be willing to give business to and they want to because they know that you're an extension of them in that way.

Tell me before we end off here, anybody that's listening that's thinking of, okay, maybe I want to do something on the side or that's a big jump to, okay, wait, wait.

This woman is a cna, then she's a nurse and then a coo.

And then now she's just doing all these good things and now she's running her own business where she's consulting.

What does that look like for you today?

Like, how are you?

It's probably using the same things, but maybe it's.

Talk to me about, in what you do today, Sunny, as a consultant and speaker, how are you?

Like, what does it look like to sell and connect to people in this way and what you're doing today?

Yeah, I think the base of it is taking the experience.

So I've been in this industry for 20, almost 25 years.

And in that period of time, I have garnered a lot of stories, and those were experiences that I had.

And I think so much of what I do today, especially around keynote speaking, is storytelling.

And it is being able to describe with such intensity an experience that I had to the point where it actually causes emotional reaction from someone else as if they were experiencing it themselves.

And I think the same goes for consulting.

So much of that is someone's calling me because they've seen the trajectory of my career and they've seen what I've done, and so they may want to grow and scale their business.

And so, okay, hey, you have this robust background, but usually that first call is like, here's what I need.

What can you do for.

For me?

Right.

It goes back to that same element of storytelling.

Like, here are the things that I've experienced.

Here are the things that haven't gone well.

Here's the lessons I've learned.

And so today, I do hospice consulting.

I do executive coaching.

Again, like, it is all about the experiences that I've garnered.

And I've been coaching people for probably most of my career, whereas, you know, I can now today kind of set that apart and focus on executives and high performance coaching.

And it's through those experiences and sharing those stories.

And so I think it all comes down to almost like that ability to tell a story, to convey something to someone where really they want to buy it.

Right.

And that may be your service, that may be having you come speak, and then I think the same thing.

And all of these things are transferable and translatable skills.

It's the skill set that you build up.

You put all these things in your toolbox over your career, and sometimes you may not always pull out this tool, but you have it there.

And so it's this, you know, it's this wide variety of diverse tools that you can use to create an experience.

If it's consulting, the experience that I want to go in is creating relationships, creating accountability, radical responsibility, and helping them cast a big vision and then put the process in place to execute on that, get to that desired outcome.

Same thing with coaching, with the keynote.

I want to provide an experience to them where they have tangible takeaways that they can implement stories that they can, you know, resonate with.

And then the podcast, same thing.

All of those elements kind of come to come to light on the podcast in either the sharing of my stories or bringing guests on to highlight their stories.

Yeah, I mean, you know, I just, I love the, like, when you say something like, you know, it's all about, like, how.

How do you convey, you know, the value, the connection, the experience.

Right.

Like you're thinking, really thinking about that.

And I, when I listen to you and the podcast, same sort of thing.

It's like making guests feel comfortable making, you know, your, you know, back in.

When you were doing it in a clinical setting, making your patients feel comfortable, making, you know, new potential clients feel comfortable in wanting to continue working with you because they can feel that.

Because you're conveying that to them in a way that they can, you know, clearly understand.

Clearly understand.

You're painting a picture and so doing those things.

So, yeah, that's what I kind of take away from kind of all the things that you said, Sunny.

So myself, I'll go back and listen to this and pick up some things too, in my sales career and what I do.

I'm curious.

Like, as we get to the end, Sunny, this is all about selling by being human.

So we all have these unique things.

You say things very similar to other guests I've had, but in a slightly different way.

And so this is something about you, Sunny.

And so it's just a fun question I ask every guest.

And so, Sunny, if I ask your kids, your closest people to your family, something about Sunny, what is just something that is so totally Sunny.

It's maybe something that would only happen to Sunny.

It's just something that only Sunny does.

It's something that would only and could only happened to Sunny.

What's something that they would tell me?

Maybe something you do.

A thing that happened to you.

What's.

What's something that they may tell me that nobody else but Sunny does?

The first thing that comes to mind is funny.

But my kids, my kids probably, and my husband would tell you if someone says something and it somehow is really close to, like the line in a song, that's it.

I will belt out singing that song.

Like, it's just.

And it's funny and it's in the moment, but, like, all of a sudden they say something and this light bulb comes on in my head that it's a song lyric.

And then I'm just shouting that song out.

So, yeah, so that's.

That's something that, you know, whether we're out, whether we're in the kitchen, if someone says something and it has a similarity to a song line on Belt Mountain Song.

Give.

Give us an example.

You got it.

You can't leave us hanging.

Like, what's something?

What's a song?

A recent song that I would have heard Sunny, Sunny singing In the house or maybe just out in the wild.

You know, I mean, it could be like, anything.

Like, you know, my kids will say something.

I'm like, oh, are you gonna survive?

And they're like, I'll survive.

I'm like, oh, no, Noah.

I will survive.

All right.

It's just something that my brain goes off and the crazy craziness comes out.

Mom, stop it.

I know.

Why do you always have to do that?

Mom, I have two boys, 16 and 12, and so they will just say they love when I do it, but I don't know.

Just, like, Just shake that off.

What?

Shake it off, Shake it off, shake it off.

All right, all right.

So, Sunny, love talking to you.

Where can people just connect with you and just learn more about what you do and find you?

Yeah, absolutely.

I probably spend most of my time on LinkedIn, so feel free to connect there.

My website is evokegreatness.com.

you can learn more about me there.

And then my podcast is called Evoke Greatness as well, and that's on all podcast platforms.

I'm on Instagram and TikTok.

Probably have a little bit less of a presence there, but on those channels.

So, yeah, I would love to connect with anyone who would like to.

Awesome.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Sunny.

It was a great podcast, and I.

I agree.

Just follow her.

Go find her, whatever you do.

She's.

You learn a ton from her.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Sunny, for coming on today.

Absolutely.

My pleasure.

Thanks for having me, Alex.

Hey, gang, this is Alex.

Thank you so much for making it to the end.

If you heard a quote you liked or got a little bit of value, drop me a line or a comment.

It means the world to me.

We have great human beings throughout all walks of life every single week who sell through the lens of human connection.

And I'll see you on the next episode of Sell by Being Human.

Thank you.

Hey, gang, this is Alex.

Thank you so much for making it to the end.

If you heard a quote you liked or got a little bit of value, drop me a line or a comment.

It'd be means the world to me.

We have great human beings throughout all walks of life every single week who sell through the lens of human connection.

And I'll see you on the next episode of Sell by Being Human.

Thank you.