Are you.

Oh, you have any more to go?

The other thing I just wanted to talk about briefly was the Chiron return.

All right.

Until I had my Chiron return, I never thought about it.

But I do often talk to my clients about developmental periods and how adult development corresponds with, like, some major astrology transits.

And of course, there's the Saturn return, when Saturn comes around to its place, place in your birth chart around age 30 and 60.

And then I've often had clients who were going through their midlife transits, which happens between age 38 and 43.

And it's like three big transits where Pluto squares Pluto, Neptune squares Neptune, Uranus opposes Neptune.

I've come to believe the Chiron return is like another one of those really big life transits.

And it usually happens between the age of 49 or 51.

And if you have Chiron in Aries, you're still experiencing it now.

And, you know, in what I have seen, it looks like much like the Saturn return, but it's like a time of review and reflection and making adjustments and really thinking about, you know, who you want to be and what you've experienced and coming to some peace with it.

For women, it often correlates with the time that we go through menopause, you know, where there's major physical as well as psychological changes.

I don't know as much about the male experience, but I do think it's a critical part of our adult development where there's at least some internal shifts and maybe also some external shifts.

And so I'm starting to pay more attention to it, and I think it's worthwhile.

All right.

I did.

Yeah.

I'm not going to talk about secondary progressions because I think it's just too much.

But I did sort of briefly dip into.

And I'm going to stop sharing my slides for this.

I thought this was fascinating how other astrologers are using Chiron besides natal astrology.

Liz Green's new book is actually about relationship astrology.

Highly recommend it.

And she says that Chiron is found forming sinistry aspects of people involved in relationships of all kinds.

Repeat that.

Chiron is what found forming close synastry aspects in the charts of people in relationships of all kinds.

I did recently have a couple.

I looked at where his moon was on her Chiron and her Chiron was on his moon.

But until that I really hadn't looked for it.

But it's something I'm going to start keeping out for.

And she talks about Chiron as being like Saturn where there's issues for transformation and suffering through relationships.

Right?

Like you're attracted to somebody whose Chiron is sensitive to you and that you learn and grow together through experiences where Chiron is in synastry in financial astrology, which I don't know much about but I kind of like to read every now and then.

Ray Merriman is a really famous, well known financial astrologer and his research and some of the graduates of his training program have found that Chiron can be a market indicator.

So he says in the US we've actually had major recessions when Kinar, when Chiron joins the lunar nodes, which is really interesting when you think that's coming up in February, that that's been a marker of a recession.

And then some of his graduates working in Spain found that Chiron stations the retrograde and the direct station were market reversal periods in the Spanish equity market.

I talked to a couple of astrologers who use Chiron in locational astrology where it's like they're looking at planetary lines to see where would be a good place for you to move.

Moses Sriragar talked to me and he said that if Chiron is a POS like so if you travel to your Chiron line and it winds up being positive for you, it's usually something around healing, around coaching or some kind of specialized skill that you have to mentor or help or coach other people most of the time.

For people being near their Chiron line is a really heart rendering negative experience that's very painful.

So he definitely wouldn't recommend it.

He says for most people being at a Chiron line is gut wrenching.

But that for some people who work in healing and teaching and coaching and those kind of fields, it can actually be useful.

I looked at people who do mundane astrology, you know, which is like world events and there's a really interesting article or two on astro.com about how Chiron works with other outer planets.

Brian Clark wrote one about the Chiron Jupiter cycle which is really fascinating.

And he ties it to things like mass migration, you know, the suffering of peoples, you know, and also health and healing issues and like natural disasters and those kinds of things.

Some people use it in horary but not a lot.

I couldn't really get any clear picture of it in Horary astrologer.

So that was kind of the extent of what I did from my literature review and then my own personal exploration.

But I feel like I'm just at the beginning of really applying that and learning more about other People's direct experience.

I did have a couple of questions.

Yeah, shoot.

What do you think Chiron's trying to hear?

I'm not even sure if I think Chiron is trying to heal.

Oh, I like that.

Yeah.

I'm not sure.

I think.

I mean, I have a problem with the word healing generally.

I think it's kind of overused.

Right.

So when people say something is healing, to me, I'm like, what exactly do you mean by that?

Right.

So I think Chiron is illuminating and connecting, but I don't know that I would say healing, because, again, I think an important point Liz Green brought out is, like, we have this notion in our culture that, like, if you have the right doctor, if you have the right medicine, if you have the right procedure, if you have enough money, anything can be healed.

You know, we can live forever.

Anything can be cured.

And I think what Chiron's story really told us is that.

Pain and suffering are an integral part of life.

Right.

Of living.

You know, at the end of his story, he suffered until he gave up his life.

He wasn't healed.

Right.

So I feel like we've taken a look at Chiron in the past astrologically through an overly positive view, and we sort of ignored the other parts of the Chiron story.

So I'm not sure that it is healing, but that doesn't mean it's not transformative.

All right, that.

And that would.

That would actually go back and point to the.

That slide you had earlier with when you said Chiron actually didn't finally kill for himself.

Yeah, kill himself.

He chose death.

Yeah.

So that would be, I guess, point to all we ever actually heal from it.

Yeah.

Do you.

Would you recommend that someone even open the Chiron door?

I would.

Having done it myself.

Now, I gotta say, there was a couple of times when I was doing the research into my own history when, like, I looked at these time periods and honestly, it brought up old trauma.

Right.

Stuff that I hadn't thought about in a while.

And I literally, like, closed the computer, put my notes down, walked away, and didn't want to look at it again for several days.

But for me, knowledge is power.

And again, maybe that's the Capricorn coming out in me.

Right.

Well.

Well, there's another line that says, ignorance is bliss.

Right.

I'm not familiar with that.

One we see on a personal basis.

So for me, I'm like, let's peel that scab off and see what's underneath.

But maybe not everyone wants to do that.

And that's okay.

Too.

Right.

That will point to healing or working on things is a conscious choice.

Right.

Do you think we are born with this wound already or does it have to be inflicted on us?

I don't know.

I mean, to me, that, that, that kind of ties into the whole philosophical debate about how much free will we have and how much of our life is faded.

And I don't have a definitive answer on that.

I mean, fair enough.

Yeah, it feels like we have some amount of free will.

How much?

I'm not sure.

Which would.

I guess that would come back to does Chiron have anything to do with past lives?

And I'm just not the astrologer to answer that question.

All right.

We all have our personal opinions.