This is an AI transcription, apologies for any typos.

[00:00:00] Steve Warwick: There's always the, the voice in the back of your head that's, that's saying that what you're doing isn't right for you, that you're going to get fat.

[00:00:09] Alex Melia: Welcome to stories of Men Beneath the Surface. I'm Alex Melia. Join me as we discover what it means to be a man in the modern era.

There's a long history of the connection between women and the media in relation to eating disorders, but it's only recently the discussion has opened up to show men suffering from similar medical issues. Steve had always had a checkered relationship with food, and one day back in 2006, he was on his way home from a trip with his girlfriend, Emma, when she suggested that they stop for some food at a service station with limited options.

[00:00:56] Steve Warwick: So we, we sat outside Subway for a long time and time moves differently when you're kind of having an anxiety attack. I built myself up and kind of convinced myself after, reasonably with myself for a long time, that this was okay to have a subway sandwich. So, whilst we were in the queue, um, obviously you've got all the sandwiches on the.

On the board above, uh, where they serve them. Okay. Okay. And my eyes were only focusing on the, uh, below three grams of fat options. And I thought I'd go for the, the roast chicken sub, the simple one. And then of course they kind of, they start asking you what you want with it and what, what bread and is it toasted?

I just said the most plain things. I didn't want the works when it comes to salad. I just, I think I just had lettuce. Cucumber, uh, no sauce, no nothing. So yeah, the till politely declined the offer of having a cookie or any of the, the sweet treats on offer. But I did have a, a diet Coke, so she, she rang up the till and, uh, I think it was about 10 pounds, uh, for mine and MS.

Sandwich. And then we went and sat down and, and started to, started to eat them. When I was eating the sandwich, I didn't feel massive guilt or massive anxiety because there's also this desire in me to to be normal, to, to do what everyone else seems to be able to do really easily, and that's just get a subway sandwich and, and eat it, and then carry on with their life without mulling over what they've just done.

But there's also, you know, there's always the, the voice in the back of your head that's, that's saying that what you're doing isn't right for you. That you're going to get fat regardless of of what I knew to be true and the science and biology, and it is just one six inch subway roast chicken sandwich.

The voice is louder than that and that's what I had to try to quieten to get further sandwich. Yes. And then, and then we got in the car and, and went to go home. So we got home and Emma put a key in the door, um, and right in front of the door was the stairs that I knew led up to the, the bathroom. So, I made my excuses.

I told her that I really need to go to the toilet and walk straight upstairs into the bathroom where I started for the first time, making myself sick. And then I, I realized that when I was throwing this sandwich up, I didn't know when to stop because when you kind of hit that sweet spot, so to speak, uh, and your body is regurgitating, your body will continue to do that.

So I didn't, I went to stop. I couldn't judge by looking in the toilet how much of this sandwich was out of me. So I just kept going and kept going until chunks of my stomach lining were coming up. Um, and even then it was hard for me to stop because I wanted to be sure. I had to make sure it was all gone.

[00:04:08] Alex Melia: So it is almost this feeling like I've done something similar before and I'll talk a bit, a bit more about that in the, the conversation, but it's almost this, I can see what. I can sort of relate to what you're saying is like, you don't want to be caught because it's what you're caring a lot about what people think, especially your ex-girlfriend, well your girlfriend at the time and, and her parents.

Like what would they think of Steve knowing this about him? I

[00:04:35] Steve Warwick: don't, I don't think they'd know what to think, but there would be judgment. Um, I would be, I would've been seen as, as not being quite right. Um, but back when I was in my early twenties, it was quite a while ago now, unfortunately, men and bulimia, no, not, not a thing.

So, so they, they would've thought I was weird and they was strange, but they wouldn't have a clue how

[00:05:01] Alex Melia: to deal with it. And I'm thinking about people who, who come out with this issue now with, with bulimia or, or whatever sort of. Challenge that they've had. You know, I wouldn't feel a sense of of as much kind of shame because at that time when no one's talking about these things, you think you are the only one.

Dealing with, with whatever issue you're going through. In your case, it was, it was bulimia. You, you, you are thinking, you are, you are the strange one for feeling these things and there's no one else there that could possibly understand your scenario. You are unique in all this. So yeah, the, the kind of, the embarrassment and, and shame feelings would be very prominent in your mind, I'm guessing.

[00:05:44] Steve Warwick: We all know that we present ourselves to the world in a certain way, and, and, and although that might be our true self, we're not fabricating who we really are. We don't need to reveal everything, do we? And it's those bits that we don't reveal that really makes us who we are. But there's certain things you just can't talk

[00:06:02] Alex Melia: about.

So what, what elements of your personality and, and who you are did you reveal in 2006?

[00:06:09] Steve Warwick: Did, did I openly reveal? Yeah. Um, the happy, the, uh, the, the fun, the.

The outgoing, the confident, uh, the bullshit. Look, I am all these things and I, and I have always been these things, but I mean, my self-confidence was more self-efficacy. So you put me in a situation that I'm comfortable in, I would be confident in that situation, but, They were only a few situations, whereas the rest of the, the time I, I, I wasn't confident but you'd, you'd mask aade around as if, as if you were, because that's what was expected of you and

[00:06:53] Alex Melia: for the fact that your Instagram page and it's almost appears like Steve has got this perfect life where he's in the kitchen, he's making all this amazing food and it does look amazing.

'cause I've seen all the, all the pictures of it. People can look at it on Instagram and think, God, that guy's got a great life. He's got a perfect life. But it, it just seems like back in 2006 when there was no Instagram, there was a different kind of Instagram that you were portraying to people.

[00:07:24] Steve Warwick: I'm confident that that was true for, for many people, for most, um, because, uh, Well, can you imagine if you, if you revealed your true self back when you were 21, 22, people would probably distance themselves from you, right?

Because they wouldn't be able to, to handle that information. So you can, I think kind of when you, when you, when you had this, Facade. It's not just for your own self-preservation, it's to make you more acceptable and digestible to other

[00:07:57] Alex Melia: people. But then it also makes me think if there were certain friends in our social circles or certain certain family members that perhaps I.

You would've confided in, and I mean, I'm thinking like myself as well in that, on that time with the, some of the challenges I went through. But if you, if you confided in those people, could you have had some kind of person that you think you could have reached out to and what could have positive things could have come

[00:08:24] Steve Warwick: from that?

When I was 15, I was diagnosed by a doctor of, with having borderline personality disorder. Um, but that was it. You have this, this is the box we put you in. Here's six free sessions. Off you go. Um, so when that, that mental illness kinda manifested itself into what started off as, as anorexia and then developed into bulimia, it took a lot for me to, to want to go and speak to somebody.

Um, An expert, um, that talking to my friends and family was, was out the question, um, I just couldn't, I, it was too fresh. It's too raw. I just couldn't, but I did, I did build up the, the strength, the courage to go to the doctors. I. And it was probably one of the hardest things I've done because, you know, you're sitting in the waiting room, uh, and it is every step.

It's walking to the doctors, it's going to reception. You're sitting in the waiting room. It's being, waiting, waiting to be called through all of these things. They take, they take forever in your brain because you are, you're scared about it. Um, anyway, I sat down and I spoke to the doctor and I said, and he asked, uh, what can we do for you today?

And I said, I'm bulimic and he said, I'll be with the judge of that. And I immediately closed down, dude, this kind of backhanded response. I just, I just shut down. All my walls were built back up. I, and, and that was it. That was my only, I. Attempt at trying to speak to someone about it the

[00:10:02] Alex Melia: way, the way you said it then it sounds like it was very, uh, authoritative.

Like I'll be the judge of that Sounds quite aggressive, and I think if I

[00:10:10] Steve Warwick: look at it now, maybe it was a, it was a harsh defense mechanism for him because having a young, very confident looking guy come into your, into your office and saying, I'm actually very weak and vulnerable. Um, I just don't think he

[00:10:25] Alex Melia: expected it.

What was the results of that session?

[00:10:28] Steve Warwick: I think he put me on another six, three sessions of, uh, of C B T. Um, but I, I wasn't, I wasn't in the right place to receive C B T I. I went to two sessions, uh, maybe three. Um, I knew why she was asking me certain questions. I knew what she was trying to get to. I didn't see it as helping me.

And I was, I was in a lot of denial and I was still very embarrassed and I didn't wanna be outed for what I'd, I'd become.

[00:11:00] Alex Melia: It always surprises me when I speak to different people about their experiences with certain, certain doctors. Obviously you can have some amazing experiences with, with doctors and they can be real lifesavers, but then you hear these, some of these stories now and then, and yours included, where there doesn't seem to be a lot of empathy and.

It is going straight to that authority role of, I've got the, I've got the white robe on, I've got the stethoscope around me. You know, all these symbol, the symbolism of what a doctor is and the way that they speak to you. Because for you to do that as a 15 year old boy took a lot an an incredible amount of courage and, you know, and, um, Initiative to go along and do that.

It sounded, it sounds like no one else knew your, none of your family knew either.

[00:11:52] Steve Warwick: My parents knew of my diagnosis. Um, there's got a family history of mental illness, uh, but again, I. Didn't know what to do with it. I didn't know what to do with it. You know, what the hell is borderline personality disorder?

That sounds awful. But again, I became very good with, uh, social masking and I was into sports and I was into girls and I was into all the normal things that a teenager would be. So from an outsider looking in, I, I was, I was fine. And that continued throughout my early twenties when, when my bulimia had really kind of taken a grip on me.

[00:12:29] Alex Melia: So have you talked. With future girlfriends and partners since that, that time with going through bulimia and, and how have they taken what you've said to them and how have they supported you? Well, going back

[00:12:45] Steve Warwick: to Emma, she, she knew, she knew what was happening and what was going through. And one thing I didn't realize, because it, mental illness, when it, when it's really taking a grip of you is.

It's very selfish. It's a very, me, me, me. This is my struggle, this is my suffering. But I remember her once telling me that I'm bulimic, but she's going through bulimia with me. And that landed different. Because, uh, as much as she knew about it, she didn't know. She didn't know my true what was going on in my head.

But what I'd never really appreciated was that she had to listen to me throwing up. She had to watch me suffer and then bat her back if she tried to talk to me or tried to support me. So she was also living through my mental illness on the

[00:13:42] Alex Melia: sidelines. Sounds like she provided you with some incredible support when, when you really needed it to, to, it's a very selfless thing for her to say, you are bulimia, but I'm living through bulimia with you.

It's to say that you are, it's almost like a team effort to see to, to, to overcome this.

[00:14:02] Steve Warwick: Unfortunately, uh, it wasn't, uh, our, our relationship didn't end up being, I. Very successful was more toxic, but that was due to drugs, alcohol, um, my internal demise. We, um, we just didn't create a good environment for each other, or, or I didn't.

I think I should take the most of the blame for that because, I was unstable, I suppose irregular and would prefer to live in a, a make-believe world that was induced by, by drugs rather than be with her in the moment.

[00:14:42] Alex Melia: How's your relationship with food changed because now I see this Instagram channel with all of this.

This amazing food that you are, that you are creating, you've developed a big following of people who follow all of the, the, the dishes, the, the different kinds of foods that you're putting on your, on your channel. So yeah. Your relationship with food, how is that now

[00:15:05] Steve Warwick: better than it's ever been? So, I've, I've used science, I've learned a lot.

I've read a lot, uh, and I've learned how to convince myself. To push myself further to kind of jump that next hurdle, um, when it comes to, to food and, and eating more. Um, but I, I haven't, um, purged, I haven't made myself sick or taken laxatives for many years now. Many years. Um, but I still get that slight pinch of anxiety.

If someone says, let's go out to eat, it's still there. And, but I can shake it now because I'm confident that I could order a steak and salad and a jack potato and I don't need to have it drenched in sauce. I'm confident that, that I can be okay in those moments, but I, I, I follow a lot of foodies myself and I, and I see them in, you know, croons and cakes and, and biscuits and blah, blah, blah, blah, uh, regularly, and I think I can't do that.

I can't do that. Maybe one day I'll, I'll be able to, but I, I can't do that. I need to have more structure. It is, it was, it's learning and having structure and guidelines that has gotten me through this, and I, I can't let go of that. So

[00:16:31] Alex Melia: how strict are you with, with what you eat? Do you allow yourself, you know, when people talk about having cheap meals once, once a week.

Do you afford yourself that opportunity or do you just know your, your parameters and you're not willing to go cross over that?

[00:16:47] Steve Warwick: The science behind sheet mills is that they actually don't. They don't do any good. Uh, they, they don't, they don't mysteriously boost the metabolism, uh, the next day. It's, uh,

[00:16:57] Alex Melia: really, because I've read that a lot in different areas and, and from people who, you know, who are respected in this area, yeah, it's,

[00:17:05] Steve Warwick: um, people tend to overdo it and, uh, ends up damaging their body and you get like internal information and you know, the doing anything to the extreme is never going to be beneficial.

On my, uh, workout days, on my exercise days, I eat 3000, 300 calories. So I have a lot of food. Um, so I don't feel the need. I enjoy my diet, I enjoy my food. I don't feel the need to pick up a chocolate bar 'cause that's not a treat for me. A treat for me is a nice ribeye or something that I can fit in. To, to my daily allowance of, of food.

So I never feel restricted. Yeah,

[00:17:45] Alex Melia: because you enjoy that food so much that that's already a treat for you and, and it's healthy for you. Yeah,

[00:17:51] Steve Warwick: and look, I'm, I'm now no longer scared of eating. I'm now no longer throwing up my food. Uh, so eating a, eating and enjoying a meal and then forgetting about it is a treat for me.

[00:18:12] Alex Melia: I've been digging into some of the research since this episode has been filmed, and research shows that between 1.2 5000003.4 million people in the UK are affected by an eating disorder, which are definitely big numbers. Around 25% of those affected by an eating disorder are male. But is that accurate?

Is that just because men don't wanna talk about struggling with these kinds of problems because it's still seen as taboo? My hunch would be that those stats are much higher. If we take Steve as an example, he didn't talk about this for years. So what else is lying under the surface with other men?

However, the number of males diagnosed with a needs and disorder. Jumped up by 70% between 2008 and 2018. On the surface, this is a shocking statistic, but it could also mean that more men Arei can help. And there's a number of different analyses we can approach this statistic with. And on the other end of the spectrum, there's probably more pressure on men from society to look a certain way or have a certain type of body.

I know I felt that pressure myself for sure. I found it fascinating how he's redefining his relationship with food from bulimia to being a prominent food in chef. Online, and if you haven't checked out his food, I'd highly recommend it. It's unbelievable. It'll either give you inspiration or it'll just give you pure food envy, which was the latter in my case as I'm not a great chef and he's now showing the delights of healthy, happy, and as he would say, sexy food to the masses in all its glory.

Food is to be enjoyed and not to be looked at with fear, guilt, and shame, and it's incredible how we can adjust our perspective. It was food in Steve's case, but surely we could take this approach to anything in our lives. Again, in another episode, we're seeing a supportive partner guiding the man in our story through his hardship.

Sometimes the relationships don't last. But the value they added to our lives last forever. No judgment from her. Only love and support. It got me thinking, where would he have been without her? Those were powerful words from her as well that Steve mentioned. I remember her once telling me that I'm bulimic, but she's going through bulimia with.

Me sometimes when we sift back through our previous memories, relationships, or even friendships, there's actually a lot of gold to be found if we're willing to explore it. Something I've done in the past, because it's easy to spin the narrative of, oh, well, this didn't work because of blah, blah, blah reason, or We attempt to demonize our exes.

But I invite you to reflect on your past after listening to today's episode. And try to draw some positives from even what you perceive to have been your worst partners. Instead of metaphorically throwing darts at a photo of them on a dart board, have you learned from your previous relationships or are you doomed to make the same mistakes over and over?

It's important to know ourselves as men so that we can get whatever it is that we set out to achieve in life. Listening to Steve's story made me think that he's very much a thinker when it comes to the kind of man he is. You can find out the type of man you are by taking our quiz. It takes just five minutes to complete and you never know.

You might just learn something about the kind of man you are. That you never knew before. Go to stories of men podcast.com to take the quiz and we'll put a link in the description too. Good luck.