Hi, and welcome to the Animal Welfare Junction. This is your host, Dr. G. and our music is written and produced by Mike Sullivan. So this is Season One: State versus Steffen Baldwin, Episode Two: the Rabbit Hole. As I mentioned in the last episode, these cases have elements of animal cruelty and domestic violence. So please take care of yourselves and if this is too hard, hit pause and come back later. So on the last episode, we spoke with Remi's owner Litsa, about the events that led her to start looking into Steffen Baldwin. And today we have with us the officer that helped reveal all of the things Baldwin was up to and what became a much more complex case than was initially thought of. So I wanna introduce you to Jim Conroy. Thanks for being here and welcome to the Junction.

Thank you for having me.

Can you start by letting our audience know a bit about yourself and what brought you to where you are today?

I have been a police officer for 32 years, uh, in the last, uh, this is my 12th year at the Campbell Police Department, which is northeast Ohio, Mahoning County. Uh, we're a small city located next to Youngstown. We are on the east side of Youngstown, butted up against it and, uh, you know, I'm probably gonna finish out my career here, uh, eventually, someday when I retire. Um, but, uh, I do all kind of different things for, for the city as far as, um, uh, investigations. So, and animals are one of them. So I, I, I get the animal investigations in the city of Campbell.

There's so much stuff about this case and you cannot talk about one thing before, without getting into another topic, into another topic, into another topic. 'cause everything just kinda, there, there were so many things in, in every one. I mean, every one thing, right? Like, it's just so complicated.

Yes. Not, nothing is straightforward, nothing is simple. I, uh, stopped talking, at one point I just decided I'm not going to talk to anyone about this case because I always felt I sounded so stupid. 'Cause I was all over the place and it, I just couldn't explain it any one way. And even when I initially started talking to the prosecutors in Union County and, and Melissa, I always felt like God, they, they probably think I'm so stupid. Like I'm just all over the place. Like ADD. Like you said, it's just, it's unbelievable to, to stay on topic. You can't 'cause it, it's one rabbit hole after another, after another. And not, not, there is not a story that's not like that, that you could just go off in 10 different areas, 10 different ways. And from those you can go off in 10 more ways. Um, it's hard to stay on points, hard to stay on topic. It's hard to sound, you know what you're talking about because you could just start getting caught up in so many other things, in so many other directions.

So in our last episode, we talked to Litsa about everything that happened and then how once she had all this information, she found you and she got you to take over this case. So what do, what do you remember about that first interaction with her?

A mutual friend I had talked to, it was like the day before. Um, actually April 12th was when, uh, Litsa and Angelo had met with Baldwin at an IHOP in Boardman, Ohio, which is a suburb of Youngstown. And, uh, the day before I had been talking with a, a mutual friend of ours, and I had never met Litsa and Angelo. I didn't know who they were. They lived three blocks from the police department, but I never met them. Um, so the day before, a friend of mine was telling me a little bit about the Remi story and about Baldwin, but I don't even think she told me the name. And that, you know, tomorrow was the big day and that they're gonna find out, she had fear that Remi was dead. So a couple days later, I reached back out to her and I said, you know, hey, uh, what happened with that? And she was like, yeah, he, he's dead. and, uh, that, the humane agent, you know, had had, had him euthanized and that everybody was really upset and nobody really believed the story. And then later on that night, she had texted me and said, you know, would you be interested in, in trying to point them in the right direction, which, which way to go? And I said, yeah, sure. Have 'em call me. So, Litsa and Angelo had called me and talked to me on the phone and at first, you know, Remi's whole situation had started in the county north of us, which is Trumbull County, and we're in Mahoning. So, you know, I had heard about the story from my friend leading up to it. And so I thought this was all taking place in Trumbull County. I had no idea it was Mahoning County. So after some conversation about, you know, do you, do you know what, do you know anybody in Warren or Trumbull County that can help you? And they're like, no. And then I said, okay. And they're like, well, we live in Mahoning County. And like, okay, do you have a sheriff's department? And they're like, no. And they're like, oh, well, where do you live? And they said, Campbell. And I said, well, you know, you're, you're talking to the right person, so, um, I can help you. And then that's kind of where it went from there. So, they had told me the whole story, and then what I had asked them to do was gather as much information as they could, and that, you know, it was very complicated already to begin with, just because of the transfer of ownership from Remi to Baldwin. So I had to look into some things first, uh, just to make sure that, you know, I wasn't gonna go down a path that, you know, there was no use in it, uh, because of a transfer of ownership. 'cause I know how the, the laws are for animals, uh, in Ohio and, and it's really hard to hold anyone accountable in Ohio when it comes to animals and animal cruelty or killing of animals. So I asked them to get as much information as they could. And then, I looked into it with our lieutenant at the time, he was our chief of police now, but at the time he was our lieutenant. And then we determined that, we felt that at that time it was a, you know, theft by deception from what we knew, um, you know, and some maybe various other crimes that we thought of just dealing with Remi. So a couple months later I finally met up with them and they handed me like, like 3000 copies of documentation. And then we did the initial police report. I believe that was like June 8th of 2017. And then from there, uh, I started looking at and going through the the documentation. You know, it was kind of overwhelming, because there was so much, and in that documentation there was, you know, all these comments from people stating that, you know, Remi's not the only one. There's other dogs, there's other dogs missing. We don't know what happened to our dog. And then within all of those documents, I found two other dogs that were dead and were posted on Petfinder as being adopted. So I knew they were dead and that they were posted as being adopted. So I'm like, okay, then we have two dogs other than Remi, so there could be something more here. At that point I went back to Litsa and Angelo and stated that, look, I think there's more here. However, if I go this route, it's gonna take a lot longer. I said, you know, we could just go straight Remi case. I said, but from what I'm learning about him, you know, he could just wind up pleading it down, he may get a few charges on him. He'll say, it's just, he'll say it's just one incident or one mistake and, you know, nothing will probably really happen to him. And it'll probably just be, you know, misdemeanors. In, in the county where I work, it's a very violent county, and so that tendency is to focus on the charges that are more serious than animal cruelty. It doesn't really get taken seriously in Mahoning County. So I just felt that with just Remi alone, that, you know, they may not get what they want in, in the end result if it's just about Remi. So I explained that to them and they agreed to, yeah, go ahead, go forward with it. And then, so the next step for me was I reached out to, the Ohio Attorney General's office and then I also reached out to BCI, to see if they would get on board. cause that would be the only way that I could then continue to investigate outside of Remi, because we're Mahoning County and Baldwin is in Union County.

And can you let our audience know what BCI is and what their purpose is for?

Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation is, they're our state, uh, investigative law enforcement agency. So they have jurisdiction throughout the state. So if anyone works for BCI, uh, they have divisions like Southwest, Southeast, Northwest, Northeast. Anybody from BCI could, you know, really investigate anything within the state of Ohio. And then for a police officer to do that as well, you have to have BCI on board with the investigation. And then the Ohio Attorney General's office, they have a, a special division that's just for 501c3. And then that's who I also called to as well, to, uh, speak with them to see if they would get on board. And they did. And then, uh, BCI, uh, also did, um, and it was about the end of October when, so both, both of 'em were on board with the investigation. And then we met down in Columbus in middle of November, to present what I had to the Ohio Attorney General's office and their attorneys. And then that's kind of how it all started from there.

So at that point you have Remi, and then you have two other potential dogs, and now you can, you can look into everywhere. So what was, what were the steps after that? Like, how the investigation start from there?

Well, the next step was that we had to get more information. So all I had were those documents that Litsa was providing and a lot of people that were saying different things, but nobody was saying, I know for a fact, or I saw this or that. It was just like, I heard this, I heard that. So I had been calling anybody that had made any type of statement that had any type of knowledge about any animal. I called 'em and, and see if, you know, they had any information to provide to me. So that's how I started, talking to individuals and getting more information and gathering more information. Of course, your name kept coming up as far as that, somebody that I needed to talk to. Union County, I knew nothing about Union County other than it was kind of a rural county. What I had read about Baldwin, you know, he seemed like a star. You know, at first I felt really bad, um, 'cause I, again, I knew nothing about him. And so when Litsa had given me those documents and I had been reading all these things, and of course I went to his Facebook page and, and I looked at all those different things and I thought, wow, this guy's really doing some awesome things. And then I felt really bad, like, are we gonna wreck this guy over? He made one mistake and that's how I started. That was my original thought. He made a mistake. So. Obviously I was going to, to do the investigation, but it bothered me that, that, oh man, someone's doing such good and, you know, this could all come undone. So, uh, that was a, it was a personal struggle, but it wasn't going to stop me from what I have to do, which is investigate it, but it bothered me that someone this good or someone this great with animals, you know, could end up getting in trouble. And so, I started talking to these different people, getting more information here or there. And, eventually the, the next step was to, we felt, you know, we didn't know who was involved, 'cause we know that, you know, there's a board. We figured he probably had people that helped him out. We knew he was partners with you. Uh, he seemed to be partners with the dog warden, at least we thought at the time. And we knew he was a star, so we didn't know how Union County would feel about us coming down there and saying, Hey, this is what we got on your guy. You're, you know, the big star that you guys have down here. So those were all unknown questions at that time. Uh, so I believe that, uh, the next interview other than Litsa, uh, which we had done, I believe at the end of August and with, uh, BCI and Ohio Attorney General's office, uh, in Campbell, that was of course recorded. The Attorney General's office had talked to some various other people too, uh, that were had to do with the board. And then they came back and said, you know, nobody really knows anything. We don't really have anything here. And, uh, so that was kind of surprising 'cause, you know, okay, nobody on the board knows anything and, you know, they're, they're kind of thinking that, you know, this is kind of going nowhere. This is my impression of what the Attorney General's office thought. The first two people, well, let me back up. So the next person to interview after Litsa, uh, was you, and that was, I believe, December 13th, 2017 at your place when BCI, agent Dave Hornyak and myself came down and interviewed you in like a back room, of your place. And, again, we didn't know if you were a part of, of this, uh, we had full knowledge and you guys were doing this together. We just, we just didn't know. So we came into it with an open mind of, you know, we don't know what can come out of this, but you know, of course we, we did interview you. You were very forthcoming, very upfront, uh, matter of fact, uh, very synced. Uh, you knew what you're doing. Very cooperative. You gave us everything that we asked for. You let us talk to your staff. Your staff talked to us. You gave us all your financials, everything to do with Baldwin. It was just nothing but total cooperation. So right there that, you know, that's a big sign to us that you don't have anything to hide, and we don't know that at the time. But that's just the impression that we came out of there with, is that, you know, if you were involved with him in doing this, you know, you sure don't act like it. I mean, you, you act like somebody who's been victimized and, and you went into the financial aspect of it, which at that point, and we didn't know that much about, hadn't even started looking into that at this point. So when we came out of there, we felt like, okay, well now we have a lot more information that you gave us, to go forward on. So then Agent Hornyak and myself began talking about the, the next steps, which were okay, getting this information, putting it together, and now approaching Union County with it. Okay. So that was the next step. So I ended up, with a friend, uh, helped me put together a, I think it was like 93 or 98 page presentation, slideshow. And so we went down to Union County, I want to say it was January 17th or 18th of 2018. And, uh, so, uh, myself agent Michelle Ferraro, an agent from the Ohio Attorney General's office, and Agent Dave Hornyak from BCI, I met with, Dave Phillips, who's the Union County prosecutor. So at that time, going down there, we had known through you that Baldwin was now moving to California. And I think the date that he had originally planned was like February 15th, and the last day he was taking appointments was, uh, February 12th, which was a Monday. So our plan was to do a search warrant on February 12th, which was that Monday. So we went into that meeting with the Union County prosecutor's office, not knowing, said they're gonna just get outta here. You know, we're not gonna do anything. This is, you know, he, he's great. This is our guy, you know, we just didn't know. And then that could absolutely happen. You know, but it was just the opposite. Dave Phillips was just very, very super nice guy, very open to what we had to say, listen intently. So after seeing the, the slideshow that we had presented to him, he said, well, before he even said that, I said, well, there's one thing you, you have to know, you know, before we go any further and is that Baldwin is leaving for California in mid-February. So look, we're we're January 17th or 18th. We know he is leaving the 15th. And I fully expected him to say, okay, well he is leaving, just let it go, 'cause that's really how law enforcement treats these types of things. So when I asked him that question, I just kind of held my breath thinking, what is he gonna say? And he is like, Nope, keep going. That's what he said. And I was like, all right. That's what fantastic. So once he said that, then I knew that, you know, this was gonna be full blown, and now we were going to actually start really getting into this investigation 'cause they are on board now. so, we left that day feeling okay, pretty good and, let's get into this.

I remember the day that you guys came over because I mean, I was expecting, since I had been talking to Litsa a little bit, you know, that there was gonna be this investigation and stuff and I didn't realize how, you know, all the different things that eventually got, we're found out about this. But for me, as you say, as far as us being cooperative, it was super important for me as an individual, as a veterinarian, and as a business owner, to show that we were doing things correctly and that he had scammed us too. Because I was very concerned about just the pattern of criminal activity that he was following, right? Like when, before that I was concerned about him stealing money from the nonprofit using it for personal use and that kind of stuff. But Remi was the first time that I realized that he was actually harming these animals. So, so, yeah, you know, it was, I don't wanna say as much, like it was scary, but it was like, that's when stuff got real. That's when it was like, yeah, these people are gonna look into this and something's gonna come, come about it.

That's good. I'm glad. I know, to me, you know, eventually, I know how this hurt you and your business and, you know, during the case of the investigation, I always felt bad that I could just not speak up and say, "Hey, she's a victim", 'cause I know that you were getting, uh, bashed, as far as, you know, being associated with him and people were linking you to him and being part of this. Now I'm getting down a little bit farther, but, uh, you know, I heard all those things and read those things that people were saying, and I was just like, I just wanted in the worst way to go, like, look, she's a victim, but I couldn't do that. Um, but I, you know, at some point, you know, we knew that you were completely hoodwinked by this guy. Um, and it's basically out of just trying to do what's good and right for the animals and, and, and you're a very giving person and very caring person, which I came to find out, uh, you know, and 'cause we had many contacts with you from after that day of just trying to get an understanding of, okay, what does this mean? What does that mean? I don't understand this. Like, how, you know, how is TOPS of Ohio shelter coming into this? Where is this coming from? So there was just so many different rabbit holes in this case. It takes you all over the place. And, and you were very, very helpful. You and your staff, um, Michelle Scott, was that her name? I believe? Yes. Mm-hmm. Very helpful. And I asked so many questions like, about this dog or that dog and you, you know, put me in touch with some of the other, uh, veterinarians, uh, other staff, other your employees, vet techs. So we pretty much talked to and spoke to probably everybody. That had any idea of Steffen Baldwin that worked for you? So you're very forthcoming, very upfront with us and very much a victim. We knew at some point during this that, you know, you had nothing to do with this, and neither did any of the board members, and any of the volunteers, you know, which was surprising to us that this really was a one man show. He did this all himself, and he did it by lying to every single person that we're talking about. To you, to your staff, to the board members that were really in name only.

Yeah. And it was, it was frustrating. You know, it, it's always frustrating when you know that you cannot talk about something. 'cause on my end, especially with working with animal cruelty and neglect investigations, I know that I don't wanna share a lot of information out there because it can't damage a case. And it's like, you know, people accusing or saying things or asking for, for information, and it's like, I can't give any information out because I, again, I don't wanna do anything that is going to keep him from being held accountable for his actions. So for, for several years there were people saying like, why didn't you say anything? Or why didn't you do anything? Not knowing what we were doing behind the scenes, working, you know, trying to get information. And then once you started doing the investigation, working with you to try to hold him accountable for it.

And that's, you know, and I know that was hard for you. I know it was hard for, uh, Litsa Kargakos and, and Angelo too. Uh, 'cause when I originally went to them and said, Hey, I think there's more. I think we need to go further. You know, if we really wanna try to hold 'em accountable, it's better if we have more than just Remi. And they were on board with it, but I don't think they were on board for three years. And nor did I know that it was gonna be three years. And when I first had taken the Remi case, I thought, okay, this, this might be about three months. And then we found those other two, and I'm thinking, okay, six months, you know, but then that timeline, every few months kept changing and being pushed out further because of so much that we had found. And it was just the, the full amount of what is, what I know and, and what we have in documentation will never be known. I've told people that, you know, trial probably brought out maybe 10 to 15% of what he actually did. Um, just because of all the different rules that most people don't understand when it comes to trials and courts and witnesses and things, like a lot of things don't ever get in. And uh, and that is definitely the case here. Even though it was three weeks long, I would say that 85% at least of the things he has done is not known at this time. So there's just a lot to know out there. And, you know, no newspaper article or, you know, even a podcast I don't think could ever cover the depths of, of, of the things he's done. It would probably take us a couple hundred hours for me to explain it to you, if not more. 'cause it's just that complex. So the case and, and as you titled this podcast, Rabbit Hole, that's what it was. I could work on something and it, I go down this rabbit hole, I see something else, and it might take me two more months before I get back to what I was working on that night because of all these other things that came from something I found from working on this one thing.

So let's go back to, you meet with Union County and you know that, you have the go ahead from Union County and then he's getting ready to leave in a few weeks.

So when we left there, Dave Hornyak and Michelle Ferraro from Ohio Attorney General's office, you, I knew the next step was a search warrant. So, you know, I started working on that and Dave Hornyak helped a lot. And we were just, and again, 'cause this case was so complicated already, it was complicated search warrant. Nothing was simple in this case. And, and, and I struggled with it, 'cause, you know, search warrants are usually about one incident, or one investigation about, you know, one thing or, or something around one thing. Uh, this was about many different things already. You know, we had three different dogs and we had, you know, after we interviewed you, we had known he had stolen, you know, had not paid you the money that he had owed you from the Art of Act. So we knew that, that was like $16,000. So, there's a lot of money there right off the bat from the first thing that we're told about. And then you had also mentioned that he had done other fundraisers with you and you had never been paid on any of 'em, which is true. Which then I would come to find out, there was like six, six fundraisers he ran with, uh, ACT Ohio and Rascal Animal Hospital, or Rascal Charities. And you guys never received a dime from any of 'em. He kept it all, uh, even so much as the one where you guys did the, hoarding case. Uh, and a year later he publicized that on a GoFundMe and brought in a couple thousand dollars from it and, and just didn't share. You didn't even know about it.

I didn't even know that he had done that. Like, that was, yeah. So yeah, that was a surprise when you brought that up to my attention.

So with all those things, it was already complicated search warrant, so it, it was a struggle to try to write it because at that time I, compared to now, I, I knew so little at that time, and you know, this was all new to me too, and it was just coming in waves of information and it was kind of overwhelming. So we were writing the search warrant. Dave and I would talk on the phone, you know, almost every night and, and just try to go over and work it out and how to write it. Uh, so we knew we were targeting based on what you had told us, february 12th was his last appointment. So that was a Monday. So that was the day we were gonna do the search warrant. So in that time, from January 17th or 18th, then we we're working on the search warrant. And then it was February 7th of 2018, so we had about 10 inches of snow that night in Youngstown, where, where I'm from and where I live. And so like all the schools were closed that day, you know, and it just couldn't get around. And it was like, I still never forget, it was like 11:40 in the morning and I got a call from the Dog Warden of Union County. It was Pete Lenhart. And he's like, Hey, I know that we had talked about it. 'cause he was in the meeting too with the prosecutor's office. He's like, I know that the search warrant's set for the 12th he's like, but I have just went by his house and he's got a moving van in his yard and it's fully packed. And we're like, oh man, okay, so what are we gonna do? Um, search warrant's not done and nobody packs up the truck and you don't sit on it for five days. So we're figuring he might go that afternoon, that evening. I called Dave Hornyak, said, Hey, what are we gonna do? You know, can we afford not to do a search warrant? And both of our answers were just like, no, you know, we gotta do it, I'm like, well, we're not done with it. And he's like, all right, well, let me, let me see what I can do. I'm gonna call the Union County Sheriff's Department. And he called a Lieutenant Mike Justice, uh, who's now the sheriff of Union County. Super guy. Great guy. And then I called Dave Phillips and said, Hey, you know, we think he's leaving maybe tonight. Um, search warrant's not done. It's, you know, the rough draft is done, but you know, it, it needs cleaned up. Goes send it to me, I'll work on it, and, uh, come on down. So I'm three hours away, but remember there was 10 inches of snow and it's still snowing. So I immediately get in the car and then come on down. Dave Phillips had touched up the, search warrant and I went over it, made sure everything was good and that was right. Then I met with, uh, judge, uh, Frazier. So this had to be like five o'clock in his chambers. And we're just hoping that he approves it. And again, it's just not a simple search warrant. It's just very difficult. So I don't know if he's even gonna approve it, but, but he does. Dave Hornyak had did an amazing job with the Union County, uh, Sheriff's Department. So he got union County Sheriff's and BCI to come up with their mobile evidence unit and a BCI agents and, uh, Ohio Attorney General's office, Michelle Ferraro was there. I was there. So we had, probably a team of 20-25. And they, they had actually put, uh, a team of two detectives on Baldwin's house to make sure that he didn't leave. So they were, they were, staking his house out and he had left, but he left the truck. So they just stayed there at the house and, kind of figured he was coming back 'cause somebody came to meet him and then they got into his car and then whoever met him left their car there. And same, some dogs got into the car and they left. So we knew he hadn't left yet. So we were there. So, we were going to serve the search warrant, which then we did, we drove up, which was like 20 minutes from the sheriff's department. We drove to where he was at, which was, I think state Route 739. And so when we got there, it was a pitch dark. It was really dark out. It was like six degrees out that night too. It was freezing cold. And then, uh, we went, and then there was no answer. There was nobody home. And then Mike Justice called Baldwin on the phone 'cause Mike had his phone number because he was a humane agent. So he had dealt with Mike here and there, and he called Baldwin and said, Hey, you know, we're here to do a search warrant. And I can hear bald Baldwin arguing with him on other line, but I couldn't hear what he was saying. But I can hear Baldwin, you know, he was really arguing with him. And, and, and Mike just said, said, you know, I don't care about any of that. He goes, listen, we're gonna go into your house, whether you're here or not, we're giving you the opportunity to come home. He goes, but if you're not here and we go through that door, we know your dogs are in there. We can't promise you what's gonna happen. So, what are you gonna do? And he is like, all right, I'll be right there. But he was arguing about coming there, but then he did come, so we had to go, wait. So we went away from the house and we sat and we waited for like an hour until he showed up. And then he showed up with his attorney at, at that time. Uh, then we went to the house, we presented him with the search warrant and then we went in the house. And what, you know, we had a meeting beforehand and the meeting was, is that, okay, here's what I expect that we'll find, and that we want, okay, we want all his electronic devices, phone, laptop, cell phones, you know, uh, iPads, any computer, anything, desktop, we want it. Any document, we want it. Any, any paper that's there, paper document we want. It also, we felt that we might find drugs and we'll find, we'll find guns there, which we did. So we got all of those things during the search. And then, because the, uh, van was packed up, not the van, it was a moving truck, so it wasn't a, it was a pretty decent sized one. So we took it to the sheriff's department 'cause it was so cold outside. So we didn't get done with the search probably until 10 at night. Um, and the entire time he had, he had all of his dogs inside in crates. So they barked the entire time. It was so loud 'cause there was 10 inside. And then Andy was a dog from Youngstown that was a feral dog, was outside, and she was in a kennel by herself in the backyard. So we took it down the truck, moving truck down to the Sheriff's department, where then we unpacked it. So we took everything out of it and photographed everything and went through all the different things that we could, you know, one of the other things that I was hearing about was that, you know, he was lying about being in the army, you know, so we, we didn't know that that was true either at the time. And then in that search we had found some things that indicated that he was in the army. So that kind of threw us for a loop, 'cause all of the information we had at that point in time was that he was lying about it and the thought process of that was justified because he had a LinkedIn profile that showed that he had a degree from West Point from 1998 to 2001. Well, everybody knows West Point's a four year school. You gotta go to it for four years. You can't graduate in three. So how does he have a degree in philosophy in three years from West Point? So that just seemed off from there. Um, and then he was also talking about being, you know, a paratrooper and different things like that. And it's like, okay, well how could you do both at the same time? How could you be in the army being a paratrooper, but then also be in a cadet at West Point? So there's all this unknown about that. And so we saw that yeah, there's some pictures of here in, in the Army from, from unpacking all those different things. So that's kind of what I focused on. There was a lot of us doing that, just pulling everything out and taking pictures of everything, which would later come in very, uh, very handy for us because there's a lot of, what we didn't know are things that he stole from ACT Ohio. So when you purchase things as a 501c3, you have to have a receipt of it. You know, it has to be for that 501c3. And then in Ohio, when any organization, you know stops existing as a 501c3, you're required, you know, by Ohio laws to then donate all of your property that you've bought or purchased, uh, your assets to other like charities. And if you don't do that, then you're required to present a list to the probate court in Union County, so then they can distribute it. Well, of course, of which he did none of that. All of that stuff, or not all of it, but a large majority of it was on that truck, which we didn't know at that time, including the gun that he had purchased with ACT Ohio money was on that truck too as well, that he eventually, you know, was convicted of a, the theft of that gun. But we did not know it was stolen at that time. But we took the pictures of the serial number, you know, it was loaded. There was one in the chamber, um, but, you know, unloaded it, took the bullet out of the chamber, took the pictures, and again, that came in handy taking all those pictures. Um, all the documents that we also pulled off the truck were very helpful as well. And, the one other thing to note was that, when I was searching, uh, agent Hornyak came up to me during the search and he's like, Hey, this guy's really got a problem with you. And I'm like, why? He's like, he, he, he's just blaming you for all of this. I'm like, for what? He says that you've got a personal vendetta against him and that you're the cause behind all of this. And I'm like, okay. You know, I, I, I didn't really know where that was coming from. I've never spoken to him in my life. And, uh, so I just thought that was unusual, that. I could tell there was hostility just in the way he was looking at me. Um, and so I would later come to find out, we can get into later of where this was coming from. But, um, so that was a surprise. And so at some point, uh, during the night, you know, again, agent Hornyak comes up to me and he says, Hey, I'm trying to get, get him to talk to us. You know, you ready to interview him? And I'm like, yeah, you know, let's sit down and let's talk to him. And, uh, he's like, I don't know if he will, 'cause he really does not like you. And I'm like, okay, well, whatever. We're still gonna interview him. And then at the end of the night when we were done with the search, now we're, we're tired. This is like two in the morning now. And we were in the, uh, the, one of the bays of the inside of the garage at the sheriff's department. And then, so we walked up to him and his attorney and said, do you wanna, you know, you wanna sit down and talk? And, uh, his attorney said, I gave my client the advice, and, and, and Baldwin said on the advice of my attorney, I, I'm not gonna answer any questions. Uh, so we, uh, he, uh, attorney gave us the information of, you know, his address of where he was going, gave us his phone number, and, um, that was it. He was free to go. And he asked if he was free to go and we're like, yeah, he's free to go. And, uh, I believe in the next morning, on February 8th, and he then left, uh, for California. So again, long-winded story. Like all of them are in this particular case, they all are. All, all of these stories are gonna be long.

I mean, nothing, nothing is simple. And it's because there's, there's just so many angles to everything. So was he able to take that moving truck?

Yeah, we only confiscated the marijuana that we took, and the documentation and all of his electronics. So he had no phone. He had no laptop, he had no iPad. Um, so he didn't have any of those things with him. But, you know, we got everything that we thought we would have or that we wanted. And what was, again, later I would find out in a message, like he would talk about that night of the search warrant in his messages to other people. And he would say like, how we got nothing. And, uh, it was a joke and, and they got nothing on me and they got nothing. And, you know, that's why I was allowed to leave. Um, you know, he always played it down of, of, uh, you know, what we were doing. Um, either, you know, to the people he would talk to. He was blaming this all on me as this was a personal vendetta on my part, and that I was, uh, I guess Litsa and Angelo had put up a $5,000 reward. So he had me taking that, uh, that I was taking that reward is what he was telling people. Um, he had me, uh, doing this on, on my own time off the clock. Where he got that from, uh, that I was doing this like as a private person. So he had all these stories that he had created about, what I was, my part in the investigation, and this is what I would come to learn of him, is that he was always blaming somebody for whatever was happening to him, not himself. Always somebody else. So this was his defense to everybody's like, what's going on with you? Why are the police here? You know, I heard you got, you know, a search warrant, they came to your house and, you know, his response to them well is that, you know, Litsa and Angelo, you know, were vindictive and outta control and can't accept the fact that Remi was a monster and that they have gotten me, they're they're little private pit bull working for, you know, reward money. And I got a personal vendetta against him, This is what's telling everybody? And I'm like, gee, you know, I would find out later. I didn't know that night. Um, 'cause I'd never spoken to him. But as, as usual, what he would always do was set things up. Again, I would learn this, he would start setting up things months ahead of time.

Yeah, he was, he was really good at sharing stuff on Facebook and getting his followers to believe what he was saying. And I mean, realistically, like anybody that has a business, you're always gonna have somebody that's not happy with you and that person, you know, he, he spun it as, like you said, Litsa had this dog that was like a really dangerous dog and he had to euthanize it. And then now they're blaming him and they're really mad at him. And, you know, he, he makes himself be the victim of everything. Right. So, I, I understand why a lot of his followers believed him because everything that they ever saw about him was good. Was about all his pictures, supposedly helping these animals and adopting these animals and finding animals home. And then he just kept posting about rescuing animals from different kill facilities or dogs that were on death row. And, you know, doing his little hashtag "Don't euthanize me, bro". And he was just feeding off the, the kindness and the, and the heart for animals that people have, right? It's like it, he found, he found a great scam because people are going to have a special place in their heart for animal causes. So he, you know, he took, uh, animals that were being attacked for whatever reason, whether it was because of their breed or behavior, and then he was just taking that and, and running with everybody's money. Really?

Yeah. And, and their emotion. Um, you know, one of the ways I explain it is that, for me, personally, you know, I, I was an athlete growing up and, and, I never celebrated, you know, anything until it was over. Um, you know, and I always felt that celebrating anything prematurely was always a mistake and always come back and bite you. And so I learned at a young age not to do that. What I noticed about him was that, as I had told other people in the case, uh, you know, prosecutors or other law enforcement officers, every, the beginning of everything he got initially involved in was like the Super Bowl. It was celebrated as an end victory. I've removed this dog that was gonna be euthanized tonight at midnight or whatever. I came in at, you know, the last hour removed it. The dog doesn't have any of these issues. It's doing great. It's fine with me. These people were wrong in their assessment. And look at how wonderful this dog is doing. Just an hour ago he was on death row. Now he's at my house, you know, around another dog and everything's wonderful. And people went crazy for it. Like he saved another one. Well, that was just the beginning. And, and, well, that all may have sounded good at the time, but it was none of it was true. All of this ends up just all being a lie. I can say that whatever he posted and whatever he said to do or he should do, or what people should do, or what he's doing with these dogs, he didn't do any of that. He did the opposite. Every one of these dogs that he took in, he set up to fail. Everyone. I don't know that I know of any story of any one dog that he did the right thing for. Not one.

So now you have all of the documents, the computer, the phone. So what do you do with all this information that you now have?

We met like around February 20th, again, down in, uh, London, BCI. So we processed all of the documents of the paperwork, 'cause we have a, a lot of just documents and we try to put 'em in piles to what they belong to or what they were related to. Um, and then we put 'em in PDFs. So we then submitted through machine and then put 'em in through PDFs. So it was just trying to organize, uh, you know, like a whole big tub full of documents. So they're imagine like a three foot long tub, two feet high, full of paper documents. So, we try just to put 'em in categories, organize em again, not knowing what any of them mean. None of them mean anything to us at this point in time. So there's like a lot vet records in there that, that I found and, and other different things, but at that time, you know, we just didn't know what it was, but we were down there. And then that's also the day that the Ohio Attorney General's office, agent Ferraro said that, uh, they're backing out of the investigation. So, which was a blow, I mean, because they were gonna handle all the financial aspects of it, and she didn't know why, uh, agent Hornyak, didn't know why, and he tried to find an answer and could not get an answer as to why they pull all of a sudden just pulled out after we had done the search warrant. So this was like one of many, many roadblocks that, you know, this case would throw us or that we'd have to overcome. Not a lot of mountains, but a lot of valleys, cliffs, hills, downward. I mean, just, it, it was just, this was the first of, of many roadblocks. So we don't know why they got out. Just, Hey, we're out. That's it, we're done. And no explanation, nothing. Don't know why. And the next thing I know is I gotta go down and pick up the disc. They won't send it to me either. So I have to drive all the way down to Columbus just to pick up the disc of information that they have from the PDFs that we did that day. Then from that point on, agent Hornyak wrote the search warrant for Facebook. Uh. So we wanted to get all the Facebook rep records, Instagram records, um, then we had to write search warrant for the electronic items, the, the, the laptop, the, the phone, um, the iPad, so that those were the next steps. And then after writing those search warrants, then waiting, to get the information back. So that was on February 20th. I think the search warrants were submitted that day and we organized all the PDFs. And then, um, you know, we just went back to doing the case again and looking through all the information. I was looking through the PDFs again, none of it was like making any sense to me. Like this was just a lot of information and a lot of, I don't know at this point in time. I also wanted to back up though, after the January meeting, you know, I did call two people so we started making calls, attorney General's office after we met with Union County Prosecutor's office in mid-January, and we knew we were gonna write the search warrant. We started calling people too as well. And then that's when the Ohio Attorney General's office had talked to the, you know, the board members and said that we didn't find anything. And I had called two people. And what I would find out later is they immediately turned around and called him and told him. So that's something else we could talk about later, but I got nothing from them. So like our initial contacts with people, we got nothing. Uh, attorney General's got nothing from any of the board members, and the two people I called didn't wanna talk to me. So I'm like, oh, this is, you know, this is gonna be a lot more difficult than I thought. So we, you know, did the search warrants submit the information. So I started going back and looking at again, all of the comments that people were making that were of possibly, they had some information, Hey, this dog is missing. That dog is missing. So I called these people and that's kind of where it started to go from there. And then I started gathering more information, um, little by little. And then I'd say, okay, well who, do you know someone who knows something? Do they have a story? Who do you know that knows a story? And so everyone I talked to, I'd ask 'em that question and they'd give me maybe another name, another person. Some of these panned out, some of them didn't. So I was doing that. And then, you know, going through all the documents, just trying to find other things. And then on April 9th is when the Facebook return came. And that meant from his ACT Ohio, Facebook. And then his, um, personal Facebook page came. And so that's when all the messages came. And so when I first opened it up, it was 131,000 pages and it's just like, oh my God. Where do I even start? This is like absurd. And it was 441,000 messages. Now. That's, a lot of information. And so, you know, people are getting suggestions from, well just type in Remi and just, you know, any message that has to do with Remi. And I thought, you know what? This is, I'm just gonna start at the beginning. I'm just gonna start at message one. And, you know, I'm glad I did 'cause it was just, I tried that Remi thing, punching it in, but then you can get in conversations where he is having with somebody. But not saying Remi in that particular statement, you know, talking about Remi, but Remi might be mentioned every fourth conversation, you know, so I, and I'm like, I can't do that. I, I'm gonna miss, so I just started it at the beginning and I looked at it 441,000 messages. All right? How, you know, in if I read a thousand messages a day, that's gonna take me. 437, 441 days. So that's like a year and a year and a half. I can't do that. I mean, so I figured out if I do like 7,500 a day, I might be able to get through this in two months now, but that's also going through 700 7500 a day and then coming across something that's of interest. So what I decided to do is just get a Word document and anytime a message just raised the flag to me, just didn't make sense, didn't look right, I need to look at that further, I'd copy it and paste it onto the Word document. And that's what I did. So I would come home and I would start like at seven o'clock every night. And I'd go to about 1:00 AM Monday through Thursday. And then Friday I would go, seven pm to 4:00 AM and then Saturday I'd go from like 1:00 PM to 5:00 AM and just read messages and Sunday, 1:00 PM to 11:00 PM and just read messages and copy paste them, copy paste them. So it took me almost exactly two months to get through the first time through these messages, not knowing what I had just read, not understanding any of it, but putting 'em all into this Word document. So then I went into the Word document and it was like 668 pages of notes that were just messages that were copied and pasted. So the next thing I did was like, try to put 'em in categories because this is over a course of, of a long time that we're talking. So he could talk about one dog and then talk about that same dog a year later, you know, or six months later, a year later, 15 months later. So I just tried to put them in categories and, and make a little bit more sense of it. And then I started getting a, a, a better understanding picture and idea of, okay, this is like making a little bit more sense. Then I went through it again a second time, I read it again. Um, and then it made a lot more sense. Uh, so things were starting to come in. So the second time reading it, I'm like, oh, okay. I remember that from the first one. I'd go to the notes. I'd see that. I see that dog. And then I'd go to your, your documentation from all the vet records that you turned over. And I would look for that dog and say, okay, this dog was euthanized. Okay, so this, you know, so this is how I started finding these different dogs, was just by categorizing all these different dogs and all these different stories, trying to group 'em together, and then starting to match him up against the documentation that we removed from his house that were vet records, the documentation that we had from you. I had called, uh, also when I went through the first time, through his Facebook, anytime he mentioned a veterinarian office, you know, I wrote it down and I contacted that vet office and I asked for all their documents. And I believe it was like 11 outside or including yours, so 11 total. So then I'd call and get all the documentation from those places as well if they had 'em. Um, so then having all that information, then when the dog would come up, you know, and it just seemed like, okay, well this dog, something happened to it. Oh, I found it, it's euthanized, uh, you know, in your records, or I'd find it in other records that it was euthanized. Uh, so then that's how the story started putting together of, you know, more dogs were involved in this. And it was just from going through his Facebook messages. And I also found out, you know, how he lied to everybody and you could see it in, in his lies, but he, when he liked somebody, so if he was involved in a relationship or was interested in somebody or flirting with them, that is when he would reveal the truth to these people. But he would only give to different people, different things. So he never reveal anything all to one person. But over the course of, you know, him chasing after all these different women and flirting with them, he would tell them these stories and he may not have told them the entire truth, but he would give me enough to go and look at and follow up on. And that was always, uh, gold in this case when he would talk to girlfriends, people he was interested in, uh, especially ones that he really liked, then you get even more information from him. And then this case was really made on what he said. There's nothing that I've wrote in any report or that I stated in any report or that I'm stating on here that I cannot back up with using his own words against him. Because that is how it was made and it was made on those messages. Uh, you know, from his phone. We got text messages that we got emails. So, from that search warrant, we got a whole slew of other information too, which was huge to go through that as well. Um, you know, then we also got a Facebook return of the, how it actually looked on Facebook. Now that. Shut down computers, that that file was so massive it would freeze my computer all the time. And then I asked BCI to try to do something with it. It was freezing their computers. So I wasn't even looking at that for a while. 'cause they gave us an Excel spreadsheet that just had the messages in there. So it would've the date, the time who the message was from, who it was to, you know, and then it would have what the actual message was. So it was that Facebook, Excel messenger that I had to rely on, which was good 'cause it, it, it cut out all the pictures and that it was just the messages. and that's really, how this case was made and where all that information came from. And then that's when I started finding, okay, these are the people that I really, you know, need to call and talk to the people that were behind these dogs, the rescues, you know. So I found out who the rescues were, who the individuals were, and went through all of their messages with him. So then I would follow the conversations with whatever rescue it was, whatever person was talking to him about that dog and about that dog and that person and every conversation they had. And then, you know, it wasn't always one person. Sometimes it'd be five or six people from a rescue, uh, Gucci for instance. He talked to many people about Gucci. So it wasn't just following one conversation. There were six, seven different women that were talking to him about Gucci. So it was getting all that information, putting it together. Getting an idea what happened, and then calling those people and stating, okay, who I am and why I'm calling. And, you know, it's about, you know, your dog, what do you know about this? And then eventually telling 'em that their dog was dead. Um, most people were just devastated, crushed. Couple, didn't believe me. One hung up on me, wouldn't believe me. I had several people that argued with me. I talked to one of his girlfriends who refused to believe anything or what I was telling her. Nothing. And I kept stating, I have the documentation right in front of me. No, you don't, you don't have it. And then she would tell me things that you told her that were, you didn't tell her because that's not what you told me. And that's not what the documentation said. And she was really difficult to, to, to talk to, to get to cooperate. And I believe she knew a lot, but she just would not give up anything on him. Um, and, and I could see the messages that they had with each other. Uh, and he confessed a lot to her. But, you know, she tried to, play it down or, you know, or state what the dogs did, or, you know, make them that fault. But they weren't even together. But I mean, those are just the different things that I came across were, you know, refusal to believe me when I was telling him that he wouldn't do that. That the dog was adopted, the dog was happy. And I'm like, no, that's, that's not it at all. I'm telling you that's not. So some, some of these people I had to share information with and like read messages like, Hey, look, this is a message that he wrote to you on this date. And then this is a message that he is writing to another person stating the same thing about your dog. Um, and here is the, I'm gonna read to you from the vet record of the day of the Euthanization, you know? And so it, that was difficult conversations with quite a few people 'cause they were just crushed, and wrecked basically emotionally, and of course the blaming and the guilt. And, you know, knowing that they had, you know, handed their dog off to someone they thought was helping. And, actually it was, uh, the grim reaper for the dog. That's basically who people were handing the dog into. Now, he, he said in, uh, several comments that anytime a dog was with me, no dog could ever be hurt. And it's in the best of hands. And, and I always found out to be the opposite. Anytime a dog was put in his hands that dog's life was in jeopardy, either through him euthanizing it, or it getting killed at his house because his setup was so awful and just through the recklessness and the negligence that was constantly going on at the time. He, uh, he was a drug user and he was a daily drug user. and when I say daily, I mean every single day. I don't know that there was any day that he was sober. He was drinking and or smoking marijuana. So the outcomes of dogs or things that can happen when, when you're high like that, the consequences, uh, are higher because of, you know, there's at times that, you know, he admitted to falling asleep and, and the dog ate all of his drugs. You know, those are things that he's admitted to, you know, or has gotten into something that was toxic 'cause he got high and passed out. So there's just those different stories that he has, where it's just recklessness, negligence, let alone, when he was supposed to be in decompression with dogs or training 'em, he would just put 'em together and a huge fight would break out. So it was just irresponsibility, recklessness, negligence, sometimes stupidity. I don't know. He's smart, but I won't, at what point don't you learn your lesson from the things he's doing? 'cause they continue to recur over and over and over again. So it just became patterns. So I ended up reading the Facebook four times over. Um, and each time was easier 'cause then I could pick out or what I knew was important and what wasn't. And then every time I'd go through I'd find more and more and then going through his emails and his text messages and it was more and more. And then calling people. And then all of a sudden after that initial, you know, people not talking to us, once I had the information and people started opening up and providing all they knew and weren't holding back or weren't afraid 'cause their dog was now dead and they were angry or they were upset and they can't believe it, but now they're gonna cooperate.

I, I think that one of the things that helped on our end was that most of his communications with me was always either Facebook messenger or through text. So it was really easy for me to be able to say, no, this is what happened, but you don't have to take my word for it. Here's the text that shows, yes, this is exactly what happened. Here's the messenger showing that this is exactly what happened. And then from a medical record standpoint, we had our medical records to show this is what he said, this is what was done. This was the outcome regardless of what his reasoning or excuses were.

Right. And that's exactly right. And that's how, again, your cooperation, your records, matching that documentation up with the day of the incident and in his messaging with whoever was involved, with you or with his girlfriend or with whomever. There it is. There's no reason to lie at that point. And so that's kind of how, the case was put together, uh, through many other ways. There's no one way to say it was put together this way or that way. 'cause of the complicated nature of the entire case. 'cause there were so many different things. But for the animal part of it, that's how it was put together. And it was all through Baldwin's own words.