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Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening wherever you may be.

Scott Luton and Kim order here with you on Supply Chain now.

Welcome to today's livestream.

Kim, how you doing today?

I'm doing great.

How are you?

Wonderful.

Wonderful.

We're on the hills of gorgeous weather this weekend and moving into gorgeous weather I think for much of the day.

Right?

Gonna be gorgeous today and looks like we're gonna be a good Thanksgiving week, I think.

I think so, too.

I think so, too.

And it just dawned on me, Kim, full transparency.

I got two of my three lights on.

So if I'm a little darker on this side, it just dawned on me.

Hey, two out of three ain't bad though.

So I can't complain.

But for a Monday night, that's good.

Mondays, Mondays are like that sometimes.

But folks, it's the buzz.

It's a beautiful buzz.

Almost as beautiful as our weather out there where every Monday at 12 noon Eastern time, we discuss a variety of news and developments across global supply chain and business.

And Kim, we got some great stories to get into here today.

We're going to talk about the ongoing Canada post strike.

It's not a great story, but it's a critical update.

We're going to be talking about the shorter holiday season this year and the impact that has on supply chain and retail.

And perhaps one of our favorite topics, Kim, how we can transform supply chain planning.

Plus, we got two wonderful guests joining us about 12:25pm Eastern Time.

Mike Landry, CEO of Catechu and our big friend of the show, the one, one and only Rick McDonald, former chief supply chain officer with the Clorox Company and a rock and roll industry advisor.

All that and a bunch more, Kim.

Should be a great show today, don't you think?

Always a great show.

Always a great show.

Always on time and in full.

So two things, folks, before we get started here today.

Give us your take in the comments just like our friend John here.

John has tuned in from Denver.

Beautiful Denver, Colorado, via LinkedIn.

Wonderful to see you.

And as our team says, hey, happy Buzz day.

Say hello and let us know where you're watching from.

Thanks for being here.

That's right.

So give us your take in the comments whether you're tuned in via LinkedIn, YouTube X Facebook Twitch.

No matter.

Let us know what you think.

And secondly, if you enjoy the show today, Ken, what should you do?

If they're really enjoying the show today, what would your advice be to them?

Send us a note.

That's right, send us a note and share it with your friends, your families, your network.

They'll be glad you did.

All right, Ken, before we pile into a big show here today, I want to share resources.

Of course, always resources.

And we dropped the latest edition.

I think this was like 104 of our almost weekly newsletter with that said, so we included this time, lots of stuff.

The State of Visibility 2025 report.

You have an opportunity there to give us your take on what you're seeing.

That's a critical survey being conducted.

We have a new resource called Logistics Outsourcing Guidance, which has been built by a former supply chain.

Now guest Scott Dubin, which is really going to help organizations strengthen their logistics capabilities.

It's like an open source document.

Good stuff.

We include lots of our live shows and a few of our favorite YouTube episodes.

But, Kim, here's where I want to focus on.

Because if you see the title, you know, this week coming up, it's Thanksgiving for a lot of folks.

So give thanks and more.

And that's where I want to focus on.

Elevate Our Kids Folks, a nonprofit that's on a mission to close the digital divide here in the U.S.

ken, did you know it's been estimated that up to 25 million kids either don't have access to the Internet or they lack the electronic devices, peripherals, all that stuff to use to connect with the Internet, to learn, connect and grow.

But there's good News.

Groups like EOK out there doing big things.

Just 300 bucks donated to Elevate Our Kids will provide a laptop and Internet access to a family in need.

We're dropping the direct link and we would invite you to join us in supporting this outstanding, practical nonprofit.

And one last thing, Kim, before I get your reaction, folks, if you give five bucks, we'd be grateful.

If you give 5,000, we'd be grateful.

No matter.

As the one and only Greg White used to say, hey, give a little, give a lot.

Just give Kim your thoughts on closing the digital divide.

The digital divide is actually very real.

When I lived on the west coast and I worked in tech and I lived in Seattle, it was kind of invisible to me.

And then I moved back to where I came from, where I grew up in rural Virginia.

And there is a huge digital divide even in the community.

I live in today.

What is so tragic about this is that we start children off already disadvantaged and it takes decades for them to try to make up for that.

They losing education opportunities, exploratory opportunities.

It is a real thing in the United States.

And if you're living in a big city, you probably don't know what's happening.

Yeah.

So folks, good stuff there.

Kim, if you want to join us again, we're going to drop the link here.

We're going to make it really easy, folks, really easy.

Elevate our kids.

There's a direct link right there.

You can go support their current fundraising stage which they kick off basically each fourth quarter of each year.

Check that out.

You can also learn more about the organization.

Nonprofit.

They're doing wonderful things also, folks, we want to make it really easy sharing resources.

Tricia, big thanks, Trisha.

Amanda, behind the scenes making production happen.

She shared the direct link to with that said, so you can check out some of those other resources I'd mentioned, including her upcoming live programming.

Okay, Kim, Kim, Kim, where are we going next?

Well, on a frustrating story I'm sure for many out there.

Let's talk about the Canada Post ongoing strike.

All right.

So as reported here by the Wall Street Journal, a labor strike by some tens of thousands of mail carriers up in Canada has entered its 10th day.

Some project that Canada Post is now behind, Kim, on some 8 million parcels causing of course, the impact of the strike to continue to grow.

Now negotiations and I think the government of Canada last week had appointed a special negotiator.

They aren't intervening and haven't announced any intention to do so.

But they're still talking, which is something, I guess negotiations continued through this previous weekend, the one that we just wrapped up.

But the biggest sticking points appear to be for urban workers.

They're concerned about potential weekend work hours for rural and suburban workers.

It's more question of hourly pay.

And as we were talking pre show, the use of technology and automation for part time workers, one of the sticking points has been minimum weekly hours and in general covering the whole shebang.

Big disputes on compensation increases over the next four years as well as what work full time employees handle versus contractors versus part timers.

Now, unfortunately, the backdrop, Canada Post has lost more than 3 billion Canadian dollars since 2018 and it's on track for its seventh consecutive annual loss this year.

And that does not pose extra, extra options.

Kim, your thoughts on what we're seeing there with the Canada Post strike?

Well, so in general, I think what we're seeing in Canada with the postal situation is reflected in a lot of countries.

Postal carriers own, no longer mail carriers.

They actually carry very little actual mail in an envelope.

They're parcel carriers now.

They are responsible for delivering Amazon packages, Walmart packages, Target packages, packages from all over the place.

So we've had in the last five to 10 years, I would say in the last five years a major shift in the role of postal carriers and they become parcel carriers versus just your electric bill carriers.

Yeah.

And we haven't seen technology keep up with that.

We haven't seen expectations to keep up with that.

And I have kind of a unique perspective because, you know, I work with Amazon during the early days when we were building last mile delivery.

Right.

Amazon was a first with Laser ship and some of those very early last mile delivery companies.

What we call back then privatizing last mile delivery because we weren't using UPS, FedEx or DHL.

We've come a long way from that.

But we've seen a big shift in this.

And so I see it on this side and how we made an experience better for our customer.

We're saving a lot of money for a major corporation.

But I live in rural Virginia.

I actually have to go to the post office to get my packages because they won't deliver it to me because I'm too far away from my mailbox.

So I get to hear from them on a very regular basis how frustrated they are with all of these parcel packages.

They don't have the infrastructure, they don't even have the back rooms for processing all this stuff.

So I can understand why Canada Post is digging in.

Well, we are hoping and praying those aren't terrific strategies, except maybe the latter one, but that we can find some common ground that works especially for.

I mean, think of far beyond the direct players here being the workforce and Canada Post, but all the small businesses, all the different folks that are impacted.

So we'll see.

We're hoping that maybe this week, I mean, gosh, we got Black Friday is just a few days away.

So we're hoping a deal gets done.

For sure.

We got to create a conversation around those early days of Amazon.

I bet the stories you could share.

Okay.

And couldn't share.

So what I was gonna say is it sounds like Santa may not come to Canada this year.

I just want to throw that out there.

That can't happen.

He may want to plan.

That can't happen.

I'm gonna think very optimistically and we're gonna sprinkle some magic wand dust on the negotiators and get a deal done.

Okay.

So Kim, let's move to another interesting story.

So folks, stay tuned here in about 12, 13 minutes, we've got two outstanding guests joining us.

We're gonna be talking about supply chain planning.

All that's wrong with the current approach, the traditional approach and a lot of the exciting new direction that the craft is moving towards.

But first, Kim, let's talk about this shorter holiday season.

You know, a lot of folks may not know.

And here as retail Dial points out, there are five fewer days between Black Friday and Christmas Day in 2024 as opposed to last year.

Now what impact does it have and what more importantly, what are retailers and their supply chains doing about it?

Well, check this out, that less selling days has not dampened holiday sales projections.

As our friends at National Retail Federation, Deloitte, Forrester, Kim, they all expect retail sales in November and December this year to increase anywhere between 2.5 and 3.7% over 2023.

So we have a lot to deliver on.

Retailers and their teams can't quite yet read consumers minds, but they certainly have made more and more strides each and every season with predicting trends, behaviors and challenges.

But we can't quite say with certainty what's going to take place on December 23rd at 9am Eastern Time.

Maybe next year we'll see.

One of the, one of the things that retailers are doing, Kim, we've talked a lot about this is they're pushing all the sales activity, the deals, promotions, all out there to try to encourage earlier consumer spending.

That smearing effect that we've talked about for years now.

Right.

No longer are the best deals expected to be on Black Friday.

You mentioned Amazon earlier, Kim.

Amazon's prime day in July.

Well folks, you may not recall that started back in 2015.

It's one of the earliest big events in the smearing movement that certainly gained a lot of steam.

Walmart has seemingly been preparing all year.

They've made a lot of gains across their supply chain organization.

Kim, did you know that Walmart is Now handling over 50% of its fulfillment center volume with automation?

That's more than twice that amount handled by Automation in 2023.

Right?

Think of the year or the decade of workforce challenges.

Well, Walmart's doing something about that for sure.

Let's talk inventory for a minute.

So Kim, have you ever heard of Del Rogers?

Yes.

He's a famed supply chain professor at Arizona State University, which by the way, ASU had a big win over the weekend.

Congrats to the I think Sun Devils.

I think is their mascot.

Right.

Well, back to the story at head.

So Del Rogers helps put together the Logistics Managers Index and we're going to drop a link to that right there in the chat.

So Professor Rogers recently spoke to Marketplace about inventory growth across retail.

And get this, he said, quote, you can see certainly with the supply chain community a feeling of optimism.

And that retail growth we talked about, well, he says it's nice, slow growth that shows you that things are in good shape.

That's like the sweet spot of where you want to be, end quote.

So we all know, though, optimize inventory management is critical year round, not just during the season.

Right.

To that end, our friends at Target.

Kim, do you shop at Target?

I do too.

It's been fascinating to see what Target and Walmart both have been doing in recent years to compete with the iconic Amazon effect.

Well, Target has implemented a new metric that it calls Purchase ability and that helps ensure that customers can buy what they want when they want it, be it in store or digitally.

And Target executives told Retail Brew that the purchase ability metric, I say that seven times fast, is supplemental to in stock measures and metrics.

And it helps by providing its supply chain team with better information, more depth and context when it comes to making inventory decisions.

But one last thought, Kim, I can't wait to get your take.

I think you may agree with me that more supply chain and retail pros have got to study what the folks over at Spencer's and Spirit Halloween do each and every year and how they do it in a very condensed timeframe every single year.

Remarkably, they must first determine where hundreds of stores will be.

And you and I, Kim, recently spoke to our friends over at Spencer's and Spirit Halloween.

Some folks may not know that Spencer's acquired Spirit Halloween a few years back and they're having so much success with that and again, those condensed timeframes that they're launching Spirit Christmas.

How about that?

I think they're already eight stores in as they build that out.

So, folks, check out our conversation Kim and I had back on November 14th.

We're going to drop a link to that in the chat.

So, Kim, you know, sometimes I see stories and I see developments and I can just talk too much about them.

Kim, I can't wait to hear your take on how retailers are getting ready to make it happen this holiday season.

So we do have one week left, which is kind of interesting.

Thanksgiving is a week later, but we're not really seeing any slowing down.

I mean, the retailers have just shifted, as you said.

We've had Black Friday week.

All the sales on Walmart started a week ago.

And I think in general we are seeing less of a peaky peak.

Yes, we have Christmas peaks, but we are starting to see peaks all year long.

We have summer peaks, we have spring peaks, we have pool peaks, we have gardening peaks, we have Christmas peaks, we have school back to school peaks.

Like we have all different kinds of peaks because the accessibility of inventory has really changed.

That's right.

So I think that is super interesting that I think we are less peaky peak.

And I also know that because the ocean freight carriers are starting to stars like peak season surcharges in February.

And I'm like, I don't understand how that happens, but that's a whole different conversation.

I guess we just have PSS all year long now.

But yeah, so we're seeing a condensed season.

I am not as optimistic about Q4 earnings as other people are.

I don't think we're going to see the same growth and I don't think we're going to see the growth that people are expecting in retail sales.

I think we're going to be sub 2%.

I think we're going to be more closer to 1, maybe 151 7.

Yeah, that'd be a big miss.

That would be a big miss.

Yep.

You know, when I was reading those projections that I mentioned earlier, I thought that was a very rosy, robust, very rosy.

And I know that there's some powerful forces with lots and lots of data that are making those projections.

But still, given everything that's been going on, the fight against inflation, which is still, you know, there's still some fight left.

Yeah.

Still some rounds left in that battle.

So we'll see.

But Kim, I hope you're wrong.

I hope I'm wrong.

Sake of the economy.

I bet you hope you're wrong too.

Lots of stuff really quick.

I mentioned lots of things there, folks.

I want to make sure that y'all check out one of the stories that contributed to me and Kim's comments on that story.

And this is from our friends at Retail Dive and also mentioned the Logistics Managers Index.

We dropped a link to that right there.

And you know, one last thing, Kim, you know there's all sorts of data points and take for example what we were just talking about, retail sales projections.

Right.

There are countless and I think it's really important not to approach each one of those as the singular source of truth that I think all of entry is after.

But much like the Logistics managers index, the U.S.

bank freight payment Index, which we talk a lot about here.

Once a quarter all these different data points are rolled up and we can look at the story by ignoring a lot of the noise that's irrelevant.

They all roll up to tell the story and all of us have different interpretations on the stories that they tell.

But it's important to dive into what the data is telling us.

Okay, your last thought there, Kim.

Last thought there about.

I know as a former Amazonian what the data is telling you I bet is close to how you operate every hour, Kim, am I right?

Every hour, every day.

It's all data.

So I think what's interesting in the E commerce world, what I've been paying attention to is, you know, Target recently reported their Q3 earnings they missed, which is what's kind of making me think that we're not going to make Q4 like we think we are.

But what I found super interesting was that their Digital sales grew 10% and how much growth they had in same day delivery.

So again, this is still telling us that there is still demand out there on the market for online shopping.

I want it delivered right away.

Consumers still are insisting on same day delivery.

We're not seeing that delivery option go away.

About four or five years ago we thought that maybe customers didn't care about same day delivery anymore, that maybe their tolerance was changing a little bit.

But we see that there's still great demand for that.

They do want same day delivery.

And some retailers are taking this sign as an indicator that customers may want to go back to having a retail experience because they want it right now so much that maybe they're willing to go back to the store a little bit.

Maybe that same day delivery demand is indicating that consumers might start inching back into stores.

We don't know.

That's a great observation and I wish I was just looking at a survey earlier today about where consumers are dividing up their spin this holiday season.

I have to see if I get my hands on that.

But I will tell you, see, what mall was I in the other day?

It was a ghost town, Kim, especially this time of year.

But despite that being the case, Kim, I'm probably part of that trend you pointed out.

I love being in the stores.

I love touching the product and picking it up and turning around and, you know, doing my homework the old fashioned way.

I mean we still do plenty online.

But that retail experience that you're referring to is so, so important for sure.

And yeah, Amanda, okay, Lenox Mall was the mall I was in.

So I guess it Wasn't as much the ghost town.

Cause that place is always packed.

But anyway, I expected to be kind of bursting at the seams.

And it really.

It wasn't, Kim.

It wasn't.

Were you expecting that experience from when we were teenagers when, like the mall was the spot?

Yes.

You had to, like elbow your way through because it was so packed.

Absolutely.

Spend a couple hours in the arcade where back then $5 was like, it.

Was like nine hours worth of entertainment.

Back.

We get to get a slice of pizza at the Sbarro.

Right.

And then go down to Spencer's and get you a T shirt.

Yeah, the T shirt.

Spencer's.

Yeah.

It was a day.

That's right.

I guess there's no going back.

I don't know.

All right.

As our resident e commerce guru here at supply chain now, I appreciate you sharing that e commerce observation.

We're going to keep going back to the.

Well, each of your appearances here.

So get ready for that.

Folks.

We pointed out a couple of resources there, including you can go back and check out that Spencer's episode.

Folks, if you in your supply chain, if you think you got challenges, imagine if you entered every short year and you weren't sure what brick and mortar locations would look like just yet.

It is really, it was a fascinating story.

So y'all check that out.

Big thanks to my mom.

Leah Luton is tuned in via Aiken, South Carolina.

Great to see you, mom.

Love you.

All right, Kim.

A ton of ground.

And folks, we got a lot more good stuff here on today's November 25th edition of the Buzz.

Kim, we ready to introduce our outstanding guest here today.

Yeah, let's do it.

Folks, we want to welcome in not only Mike Landry, CEO of Catego.

Can't wait to hear what Mike has to share with us here today.

But backed by popular demand, our longtime friend the show, we have Rick McDonald, former Chief Supply chain officer with the Clorox company and current rock and roll industry advisor.

Hey.

Hey, Rick.

How you doing?

I'm doing great, Scott.

How about you?

Great to see you here today.

And thanks for bringing in your friend.

Hey, Mike.

Great to see you.

How you doing, Ray?

How you doing today?

Scott, thanks for having me.

Wonderful, wonderful.

Kim, we've been looking forward to this.

And if y'all can't tell Rick and Mike, me and Kim have been having a good bit of fun Talking about the wide world of global supply chain, huh?

I agree with the idea that consumers are not going back from convenience.

I think there'll always be people who want to be in the stores and touching and shopping that even if you just consider the advent of drone deliveries, people are going to want more and more convenience.

And that's here today.

That's right, Rick.

You know, and speaking of drone delivery, our friends, some of y'all definitely know Devin Taylor, who joins us here regularly.

He sent me a picture.

I guess he was out visiting a drone landing pad for I believe it was Walmart.

And the drones went off to the edge of the horizon.

So we'll have to check that out when Tevin joins us again.

Mike, similar question.

Consumers aren't going back.

Right.

We want what we want and we expect to get it when we want it and at what price we were wanting to pay.

Huh?

Yeah.

There's a lot of factors in predicting demand, and sometimes it's better to have a better supply behind that demand because it's hard to predict something.

So all those things kind of go together for sure.

They sure do.

And we're going to shine a bigger spotlight on that here today.

Kim, you know where we like to start when we have guests?

It is the week of Thanksgiving here in the States for many families.

And I want to ask each of y'all, all three of y'all, as we get our fun one question out of the way.

What's one of your favorite Thanksgiving traditions?

And Kim, I'm gonna start in reverse order.

Kim, I'd love to know one of your favorite Thanksgiving traditions other than fighting the self checkout aisle at your local grocery.

Check out of the grocery store.

I love to make pies.

I love to bake.

And so I always make kind of a fancy crust pie.

Okay.

So I'm laying my apple pie one.

I went to the farmer's market and I got two different type of like heritage apples.

I can only remember the name of one of them.

And then my entire apple crust is gonna be tiny little dough leaves.

So I'm very excited about this.

That's like my favorite thing to do is make something fancy for Thanksgiving.

I can smell those pies from here.

I bet they are delicious.

So, Mike, I'm gonna go to you, Rick, you're gonna be our cleanup hitter like your days back in baseball.

Okay.

Yeah.

I'm gonna go with Kim on the food aspect and even tie back to.

Your mom listening here.

I grew up in New England and there's a dish called turnips and carrots.

And down here it's called rhubarb.

But essentially my mom would go get turnips and carrots, mash them together, put a Healthy dose of butter in there, which I'm sure makes everything better.

That's right.

That's.

For some reason, we only eat it on Thanksgiving, so maybe that makes it more special.

My mom will be making that on Thursday, and we'll be eating that and hopefully having some leftovers for a few days to follow.

Oh, I love it.

We got to get a picture, Mike.

Yeah.

You got to spend time with your mom.

Right?

Certainly one of my favorite Thanksgiving traditions.

I got to check out rhubarb.

I never got the origin story of rhubarb, so I'm going to look that up.

Mike and Rick, that brings us to you.

So what is one of your favorite Thanksgiving traditions?

Yeah, I'm sticking with a food theme.

I love to cook.

I love to grill.

And one of my favorite Thanksgiving traditions is smoking a turkey on Kingsford charcoal for.

For family members and entertaining.

That was turkey.

Yeah.

I just.

I love the process.

I love the outcome, and it's just.

A lot of fun.

Yes, it is.

And you got a little Clorox plug in there, too, I see.

Did you see?

Well played.

Yeah, well played.

Well, you know, one of my favorite things about that, Rick, that you kind of allude to is it takes time.

And the good thing is, around the holidays, sometimes we have time to enjoy as the turkey's smoking or as it's baking or as rhubarb is being made or whatever.

Whatever it is.

Pies.

We got time to spend with our family, catching up as those delicious scents fill the house and the.

And the kitchens and all.

So good stuff there, Kim, Rick, and Mike.

Okay, we got a lot more to get to here today, folks, as we're about halfway through the buzz.

Really looking forward to learning, really, from all three of y'all here today.

And I want to start with this.

So, Rick, you've been up to some exciting new things here lately.

Can you shed any light on that with us?

Yeah, sure, Cam.

First of all, Scott, thanks so much for having me back.

It's just so great to be with you and Kim and Mike today.

Tremendous privilege to be with you all and the supply chain now audience, big change for the McDonald family since my last visit here on supply chain Now, I retired after 32 years at Clorox.

Wow.

I'm calling it small R retirement.

I want those people who has to stay active.

I just needed to slow it down just a little bit.

So I'm keynote speaking, chairing supply chain conferences.

I led one in Frankfurt, Germany, last week.

I'm advising supply chain tech founders on Strategy, their technology, their messaging.

I'm doing some mentoring, and I also took some golf lessons.

All right, I'm giving that a.

Giving that a try, man.

I don't find any weak points there because I bet your golf game is as strong as being a, you know, former baseball player at the division.

I bet you can hit it only about 450 yards, Rick.

Is that close?

Yeah, let's just leave that as the illusion here with the audience.

How about that?

All right, fair enough, Fair enough.

But, man, 32 years with the Clorox company.

Kim, I bet much like your days at Amazon, Nordstrom, plenty of others.

I bet both y'all need to write a book.

Rick, on 32 years with Clorox, and Kim, maybe on your early days with Amazon.

How's that sound?

We could write a book together.

I love that.

That sounds like fun.

That is right.

All right, Mike, that brings us to you.

So this is your first time on supply chain now.

So, Mike, it's been great to meet you.

I've been studying up on ku.

Y'all have been on the move.

That's exciting.

But to level set a bit here today, tell us briefly, if you would, about what KUE does.

Yeah.

Well, we provide supply chain planning solutions for distribution, manufacturing, and service that help companies predict and better manage demand, inventory, production, materials, and service parts, as well as a complimentary set of solutions that help execute those plans with better visibility and better workflow.

So all that's in a single platform, one architecture and data model.

So when you.

When you buy and implement some of them, the rest are right there at the doorstep.

So it's a comprehensive end to end supply chain planning solution set.

Okay.

One of the elements there you spoke to, Kim, takes us back to what we were talking about in the front end.

The better ability to predict what's around the corner is one of the things I heard there from Mike and Kim.

I tell you, one of these days we're going to come up with the crystal ball that works and we're going to roll it out to the market and we're going to make our billions.

How's that sound, Kim?

And we're going to buy our island and we're never going to have to podcast again because we won't solve all the world's problems.

That's right.

No, demand planning and prediction is the hardest part of retail, period.

Agreed.

And we got to lean into innovative technology, especially in the golden age of technology, some call this age we're going through, so we can do it better and put Our teams and our organizations in better position to find success, to deliver knock your socks off experiences to our customers for sure.

All right, so let's do this.

We want to move into supply chain planning.

Right.

And have a really a holistic conversation about supply chain planning here on the Buzz.

And I want to first, Mike, Rick and Kim, talk about the traditional approach to planning and what's been missing.

So Mike, when you hear that question, but you've got one of those lists from one of those holiday season commercials where it's like the list of Santa's kids and goes on a big spool, but traditional planning approach to planning.

What's missing, Mike?

Yeah, you know, first, if you look at the traditional planning systems that are out there today, you could look at the Gartner Magic quadrant and there's 20 companies on there.

The average age is 32 years.

The average age of the leaders, 39 years.

So most of the systems that are out, out there in production today were built and designed several decades ago.

And therein lies the limitations.

They come in one or two form factors.

They're either an optimization, which is a complex algorithm, hard to implement, gives good answers, but is very slow, hard to understand, and you can't run scenarios with an optimization type of an approach.

Then the other half or the other set of companies that are out there today are based on a rules based approach.

And those rules based systems became more and more complicated over time because more and more parameters and settings are added to those rules based systems.

They run fast, but they don't give good answers because it's predicated on these rules and settings that may have been set years earlier when it was implemented or the intuition of a user.

So those are the two options that companies have today in large part to do supply chain planning.

And so you kind of pick which one might make sense for you, but they're not going to give you good answers that are quick and responsive and handles all the things that a company needs today as well as the things that are, you know, coming down the road that we might not even see yet.

Yep.

That's one of the things you can count on, folks, is disruptions that we haven't seen yet that are around the corner that will certainly keep coming.

That's why we got to keep continuing to change the game.

And Rick, when you heard Mike talk about kind of that traditional approach to planning and some of the limitations there, what comes to your mind?

Rick?

Yeah, you know, first of all, Scott, a dovetail what you just said.

There are going to be More black swan, gray swan events.

And I think the world is going to get less predictable instead of more predictable.

And so having capabilities like adaptive planning is going to be huge.

And as operators, we know that the heart and soul of every enterprise is the demand and supply planning capabilities.

The demand plan sets the cadence for the enterprise.

It drives top line and bottom line performance and trying to operate at the speed of the consumer.

We were talking earlier about shoppers not going back from the convenience model and one in two day shipping.

Right.

You got to improve in the demand planning space.

And what I see in this great advance of adaptive planning is you can plan a multiple, almost an infinite number of scenarios, real time and make really confident decisions based on being able to see around next couple of quarters.

You're marrying structured data, unstructured data and so forth.

And then if you think about that, the value that's created from adaptive planning is massive.

It's better margin, it's better profitability, it's lower inventory, it's improved working capital.

And then if you think about the customer experience, you can monetize that too.

Imagine if you go to your next customer call and instead of talking about your latest service failure, you spend all of your time talking about new products, innovate and partnering with that retailer to improve their performance and your performance.

It's just absolutely the next step and where planning is going.

So Rick, we're talking about the future and not just the future of industry.

You're talking about the future of our conversation today because we're going to talk about, about adaptive planning in just a second.

But Kim, want to bring you in here because you know, both Mike and Rick both have addressed some of the things that are missing with our current approach.

And by the way, Kim, I loved what Rick said.

I'm gonna have a little twist on it.

The heart and soul of organizations is the planning, but also the planners.

They never get enough love, right?

But Kim, when you think about this traditional approach of planning and kind of where we've been for decades, Mike was pointing out what else has been missing.

Kim.

Well, so when we look at planning, we have to look at how the customer behavior has also changed, right?

So it used to be not all that long ago that if you wanted to know if something was available, you went to a store and that's how you knew if it was available.

It was on the shelf.

So think about this, right?

And because this is where planning started and if it wasn't on the shelf, you might ask an associate and they might check in the Stock room to see if they had it.

But that was it.

Right?

So as E commerce has evolved, technologies evolve, the customers evolve.

We now have more visibility to what is available.

Right.

Worldwide.

We have worldwide visibility now to what's available.

We have endless aisles of products.

It's not just what's available for me in the store.

So if you layer that on top of how you do planning because now the customer has access to the world and they want the world.

So then how do plan for that?

It's no longer about how do I plan to a distribution center that's going to go to a store that's going to go to 14,000 customers.

Right.

That services a store.

It's become a multiplier effect of global E commerce has made it almost impossible to accurately plan.

That's right.

And Kim, those are some man different days.

I remember back when I bought Nintendo games, right as a 8 year old or whatever age I was, we had the store that you're talking about Kim, as I saved up my allowance dollars over the course of a year to for those games back then may or had the sales catalog where I could get it in two months after I placed the order right way back then.

So options were limited but man all the options we have as consumers in 2024.

Now circling back to you Mike, Rick mentioned this next topic we're going to be talking about and that's adaptive planning.

But two questions for you Mike, if you could define it.

So we're all with you there.

But also how was it changing the game?

So kind of a two parter.

Mike, tell us more.

Yeah, so adaptive planning is going to essentially change with the times with the data that Kim talked about.

There's a lot of it more coming in order to get the best answers.

And so from our perspective the way that we took the approach, we had a clean piece of paper.

We were part of the companies that built and implemented the systems that I talked about and they're all very rigid and they're not adaptive at all.

And that's the problem.

And so what we were able to do is figure out how to break the problem, break that scenario down into bite sized pieces and leverage the computing power of the cloud.

If you think about what's giving way to AI today, it's a big consumer of computing power and the horizontal scalability of the cloud is giving way to AI.

Well also giving way to our approach.

So in the scenarios that we run we essentially test the universe or a large part of it of the parameters and the settings or the decisions the user might make.

So you don't have to fix an allocation against multiple sources.

You don't have to fix a demand sort order.

All these things are fixed in the systems of yesterday and that's why they're rigid and don't give good answers.

They won't change with the times or the data because we're adapting.

We're adapting those parameters and settings and possibilities to find that combination that will unlock the best results for the business.

Results measured in how much inventory are we going to have?

What's our on time in full?

What's our on time in full for our most important customer?

Or this or this order?

What's our transportation and sourcing costs?

And all of that's going to be a balance within with companies.

But that balance even changes.

What's a priority one day is not a priority the next day.

So we adapt to the data that's coming in, to the parameters that you would set up these systems with and to the goals of the business to automatically steer the supply chain and all the decisions of what to make, move and buy so that you get the best results.

And that's on the demand side too.

So we've taken that same approach to say let's try things, let's leverage the computing power of the cloud and let's look at economic indicators.

So we've licensed thousands of data sets from tradingeconomics.com so now we're looking at month over month retail.

We're helping companies across industries like JCI and carrier look at new housing starts, NCR look at retail sales data, all of this data that's available.

So it's not just demand history and applying some algorithms with a best fit approach to get the best answers.

We're looking at the pipeline.

Of course we're delivered on salesforce, so that's a big advantage for us.

We're on the app exchange, people find us that way.

But what does the pipeline historically tell us?

Down to a salesperson or month of quarter or region, what do these economic indicators tell us?

And so we have a correlation engine that's trying all these things with different leading and lagging periods to get a demand profile.

But it also test it too.

So those that are involved in creating demand can say are we missing something in the marketplace, in this region, in this product line?

Because it's not trending the way it should be trending given these correlations.

So there's a lot to adaptive planning on both the demand and the supply side.

I love it and I wish we Had a couple hours with you, Mike.

Before I get Rick to also chime in.

Kim, one of the many things that Mike just talked about there, right, Is leveraging so many different data sets, rolling up into what we're looking at, analyzing and predicting and seeing what that story is telling us instead of simply only historical data.

And I'm probably simplifying his very smart description there, but that's really important.

And then secondly, you know, how can we avoid being anything other than static, right?

In this ever evolving change by the minute world that we live in, right?

It is so important that technologies that we lean on, they'll find more and more supply chain success are certainly truly dynamic.

And Kim, quick comment for I turn it over to Rick, your thoughts.

Kim, what we heard there from Mike.

The planning has become more and more complex as we talk about.

And then when we layer things on here, planning isn't just about retail and E commerce, right?

There's all industries have planning, but I specialize in E commerce.

And so you layer on top of what we're talking about here, you put omnichannel on top of that, right?

So now we have inventory in different states, regional demand stored in demand, online demand.

It becomes an even more complex story.

And we do need to look at there are economic indicators in different countries, in different industries, in different channels that will tell us what's coming that we will see.

We will see a decrease in luxury spending.

The first thing we start to see when we know there's going to be a decrease in overall retail is a decrease in luxury spending.

It's the first thing we see.

Like I keep it, you know, I work very closely with the seafood industry and every time I see a deer, he's in seafood sales.

I'm like at the luxury industry, like something's coming.

Like people aren't buying oysters.

Why?

Because they have to buy rice now.

And so we have to look at all of that data and without great technology, it's almost impossible to sort through.

I love it, Kim.

I love it.

I love how you brought it back to delicious seafood.

Still an important indicator for what drives industry.

Rick, we're talking about adaptive planning and how that's changing the game.

Mike and Kim both kind of spoke to that a little bit.

What do you see as some of the biggest benefits?

You were talking about this a minute ago, but what else comes to mind?

Rick yeah, let me broaden up.

First of all, I agree with everything Kim and Mike said.

This is just a phenomenal improvement in the space.

Here's what I see.

You know, and I got a real glimpse of this flying in from Frankfurt on Saturday.

Millions and millions and millions of square feet of warehousing holding what it's holding supply chain and demand, forecasting uncertainty.

That's why all that inventory exists.

That inventory would not exist if you could sell one and make one.

But most of us are make the stock, you know, make to forecast organizations because of that uncertainty.

So that's one thing.

I see.

The second thing is what we're talking about here really is this.

It's advancing significantly this topic of supply chain orchestration.

It's the end to end visibility not only of what's happening like today and tomorrow, next week, but also what's happening next month and maybe a couple, three months from now.

It's curating the data with these advanced tools.

It's creating powerful insights and conclusions that you have a lot of confidence in and can go act on quickly.

And guess what?

When you decide faster, you act automatically, more competitive.

So it's, it's a real end to end focus.

As you think about the orchestration of.

Supply chains, I love it.

I get the image of a maestro.

Right.

I didn't know what the maestro always held.

Those Bugs Bunny commercials back in the day that's called a baton, I have no idea.

But the maestro that is orchestrating that beautiful symphony, that certainly global supply chain has always been.

But we're being held to a tighter performance standard to our consumer's ear to keep the analogy going.

And Rick, I love that visualization analogy use.

As you were flying back and you saw all those warehouses that are full of our awful frozen state of uncertainty in so many different organizations and we're hedging our bets.

But one other thing you mentioned, Rick and Mike want to get you to comment.

One more different aspect of this is Rick on the earlier part of the conversation talked about how it is helping to drive adaptive planning and really new technology in so many different ways.

But adaptive planning is helping to change the nature of the conversations we're having with our customers and our suppliers, the whole ecosystem.

And man, when those conversations start to change and we're not focused as much about problems, service level failures or whatever, and we're changing it into hey, how can we even build on these improvements?

I mean, that's a real powerful force multiplying movement.

Isn't that Mike?

Right?

Yeah.

If you look at the kind of tools that we're talking about adaptive planning and Rick talked about a couple of words that I'll key off of and then Answer your question.

One uncertainty and the other confidence.

And so that's part of adaptive planning too.

It's not just the parameters and the settings and what the users might want to try or do, but it's adapting to the demand possibilities.

We all expect demand to be variable, but how much variability will the supply plan be able to accommodate with the same confidence factor?

To get the KPIs that you expect or predict, you may take something with less KPIs but more confidence.

And that's how you manage uncertainty and you start to look at the trade offs of those kinds of things.

So adaptive planning is also saying, how does it adapt to the uncertainty of lead time and demand?

And so that's a big factor as well.

And when you can bring that into a conversation with a customer, particularly a lot of our customers are B2B.

And so they're dealing some of our contract manufacturers, they're working with OEMs, they're working with channels.

And so those conversations can start if.

What if our demand was like this, could you respond?

How quickly?

What is the promise date you can deliver?

We're working with a small company that makes camping gear and a COO said, hey, if you could help me tell REI and Lowe's when they could expect their orders, that would be a big advantage.

So we're doing that, but not when the order is placed.

We're doing that when it gets to a certain stage in the sales cycle, because we see it get to a stage in a sales cycle, in a pipeline, in Salesforce.

When we do, within seconds, we write into that record, here's the promised date you could give if you ordered it today, if they booked it today.

And here's the risk of slipping because we know what capacity is looking at where we are in exhausting that capacity.

We also know what other pipeline opportunities are looking at that same capacity.

Those kinds of insights we're used to Today in the B2C world, when I book a flight or book a hotel room or buy a ticket to an event, I get glimpses of the supply chain and how many seats or rooms are left at that price.

Who bought tickets in that same section 59 minutes ago.

So we're bringing those kinds of insights into the B2B world as well.

And I think that changes the conversation from idea or question or request all the way to fulfillment as well.

Kim, we're covering a lot of ground here on the Buzz.

I feel like we're getting maybe a supply chain certification with this conversation with the three of y'all But, Kim, what you hear there from Mike and Rick, as we start to wind down, we're going to come around the home stretch in just a second.

We're going to make sure, folks, you know how to connect with Rick and Mike and Kim.

We may even get Kim's patented key takeaway from a full session of the buzzer today.

But, Kim, planning has got to change.

It's got to change.

We can do so much better, right?

Yes, we talked about it in relationship to B2B, but the fact that in part of the sales cycle, before we even cut the po, if we can start negotiating when you're going to actually have it, to me, when it'll be available for my customer.

Because if we're doing B2B, it's just.

It's not just about us.

I'm selling it to someone else or providing it to someone else.

So I love that we can get that predictability.

We're also starting to putting in the predictability that'll actually come.

Is it going to get canceled?

Is it going to.

The shift's not going to make it.

Like, what are all the variables that go into getting a product of where it needs to be?

And the fact that we're putting all of that data together to make that decision is so incredibly powerful.

I'm with you.

I am with you.

And I like your delivery there, Kim.

You got us all excited, ready to run through the walls back behind us.

But, you know, kidding aside, customers expectations are changing, suppliers, expectations are changing, our team members, expectations are changing, and we've got to deliver on those expectations and more.

Really quick aside.

Really quick aside.

Mike, you are sitting on your laurels.

This news of a new Tokyo release came out here recently.

So y'all keep getting better and better over at Catechue, huh?

Yeah, it's non stop.

There's not.

There's more and more we could always do.

We're excited about where we are, but excited about what we're doing on top of that.

It sounds like it.

Okay, so next time we all get together, Kim, I expect some fancy pies.

Mike, I expect some rhubarb, as we call it down here, but turnips and carrots up there in the northeast.

And Rick, you're always the go to grill, griller and chef.

So we look forward to some of that snoke turkey.

But a couple quick comments here.

So, yeah, Greg says the next big issue might just be the east coast port workers strike that might happen in January.

That's right, Greg.

Much like one of the topics up there in Canada.

Right.

The use of technology and automation, that's a big sticking point here as well on the east coast and Gulf coast ports.

And big show.

Bob Bova is with us here.

Bob says all the companies we're working with today are turning over their workflow technologies while they go full force in their standard business.

Once they finish the tech turnover, adaptive planning will become easier as better tools are embedded into the new tech.

That's a bright future you're painting a picture of.

Really not even future current state.

We can do it today.

So good stuff there.

All right.

So Mike, circling back, you and the team, I've got a graphic here.

You and the team got an interesting panel session coming up and the Gartner Planning Summit in Denver.

And these events, these planning events have been really popular.

London and Denver, I think twice a year.

You've got this session.

We're going to be talking adaptive planning and the conversation is going to spotlight some leading organizations that have been leveraging it successfully including man, everybody's heard of NCR and Johnson Controls, alliance consumer group net is set for what, December 3rd if I'm not mistaken.

December 3rd.

That's right.

So I bet you encourage folks to come have a cup of coffee with you in Denver.

How else can folks track you down and learn more about what we are doing at Catecute?

Yeah, thanks.

There'll be 1200 people there so is a chance some listeners will be there.

So it'd be great to see you in person.

If not then just reaching out through LinkedIn to reach me directly or mikeeticue.com even works or of course category.com to reach the company as a whole will be very responsive and look forward to the conversation.

Awesome.

Awesome.

And folks, we're dropping, you know, we try to make it easy for y'all.

Looks like not only are we dropping the Gartner planning, this is more about Mike's session at the Gartner Planning Summit and then we're also included in Mike's LinkedIn right there.

You want to click away.

Rick, CEO of the Rick McDonald's supply chain advisory.

I cannot wait to see where you go all that you've done in your career including those 32 mountain moving years at Clorox.

A lot of organizations can benefit from your expertise.

So I'll be keeping tabs on you, my friend.

How can folks track you down and grab a conversation with you?

Yeah, thanks for that, Scott.

Well, I'm working on a website.

My oldest son has helped me build that.

But in the meantime, you can reach me at my email address rick McDonald.net.

It is just that easy.

And I bet we're going to drop your LinkedIn as well.

And hey, the complete the trifecta.

Kim, always enjoy your expertise here and your perspective and what you're doing in our shows together.

And folks, you got to be at a minimum you got to connect with Kim on LinkedIn.

She's got some great blog articles amongst other things coming out soon, including one on what the self checkout Lane teaches us all.

Kim, we covered a lot of ground with Mike and Rick and then of course the first half of the show where we talked about some of the biggest things impacting our industry right now.

What is one key takeaway that you would leave with our listeners and viewers here today?

Well, I've started calling them Kimmy's Keepers.

If we need to give that a name, let's do it.

I think the biggest thing that I heard today that really resonated with me is that when we talk about planning and demand planning and S&OP and all those things, you know, we talk about customer demand and sales and price negotiation and all this kind of thing.

But today we started talking about demand planning with supply chain predictability cancels late sailing starting to mix all of that data into our planning.

So it's not just about like what we need and how much we need but when we need it.

And we're starting to add that as part of planning and that is I.

Like it sounds like certainly one of Kimmy's keepers here today, thusly named Magic Wand.

So that segment newly named Kimmy's Keepers.

I'll tell you what, I really wish we had a couple more hours.

I love these conversations we're having here in the Buzz.

I want to thank first off most importantly all of our audience members out there.

Really appreciate everyone's comments and questions.

I know we didn't hit all of them but folks would encourage you to reach out to Kim and Rick and Mike and have those conversations for big thanks Mike Landry, CEO of Kube.

Mike, a pleasure to meet you here today.

Congrats all the great things you are doing there.

Thank you so much Scott.

Appreciate it.

It's great to be here.

You bet.

Safe travels out to Denver and maybe we'll have you back for some of your key takeaways.

Rick McDonald, man, really have enjoyed all of your appearances here and all of our in persons and all the cool things you're doing to change industry and I love how you are sharing your expertise in a whole new Exciting way, entrepreneurial way with what you're up to now.

But thanks for being here, Rick McDonald.

My pleasure to be here, Scott.

Thanks for the invite.

See you next time.

That is right.

Then, Kim Reuter, the one and only.

Really enjoy what you do, Kim.

Where would you point people to to connect with you to learn more?

Where would you point people to?

LinkedIn is the best place to get with me.

That's the most up to date information that I have.

So hit me there and you can find everything you need to know.

That's right.

That is right.

Well, folks, thanks for being here.

What a great session of the buzz.

But here you got homework.

My kids are home this week.

They've been reminding me, no homework, no extra chores this week.

Well, we'll have that battle later.

But folks, y'all have homework advice, steps we can take today to help our teams find more success in an easier manner, right?

And we all know that the holiday season brings all kinds of friction and stress.

So now's the time, right?

Let's not wait till new year.

Let's take one thing that Mike, Rick or Kim shared here today and put it into practice.

Deeds, not words.

Our teams are ready to change how business is done.

With all that said, hey, folks, happy Thanksgiving for all that celebrate.

Enjoy that time with the family, great food and camaraderie.

Right?

Life is short.

Lean into those moments.

And with all that said, on behalf of our entire team here at Supply Chain on Scott Luton Challenge, you do good, give forward, be the change that's needed.

And we'll see you next time right back here at Supply Chain now.

Thanks, everybody.

Thanks for being a part of our Supply Chain community.

Check out all of our programming@supplychainnow.com and make sure you subscribe to Supply Chain now anywhere you listen to podcasts and follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter and Instagram.

See you next time on Supply Chain Now.