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Matt Edmundson: Hello and welcome
to the eCommerce Podcast with

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me, your host, Matt Edmundson.

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This is a show all about helping
you deliver eCommerce wow.

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And to help us do just that, today I
am chatting with our special guest,

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Travis Zigler from Profitable Pineapple
about lead generation and no doubt about

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his rather interesting cap that he is
wearing if you're watching the video.

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Before we jump into that, let
me tell you that eCommerce

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Podcast has its own newsletter.

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Of course it does.

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Why would it not?

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And if you're not signed up, why not?

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That's the big question.

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So go check it out, eCommercePodcast.

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net, put in your name and email address
and we'll email you once a week.

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All the show notes, all the
links from the guests, they all

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come straight to your inbox.

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Automagically, all for free, all just
using the magic of the worldwide web.

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So just go check that
out ecommercecohort.net.

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Now this episode is brought to you by the
eCommerce cohort, which I absolutely adore

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and love this is our monthly membership
group, which you can be a part of.

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Come join us as we have
eCommerce training on there.

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Every month we have people delivering
workshops, usually from people

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who have been guests on the show.

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I'm not going to lie.

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They come and deliver some
amazing workshops for us where

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we can learn all the nuances and
intricacies about eCommerce plus.

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You also get the livestream version
of the podcast, when we record the

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podcast, like I'm recording now with
Travis, we just livestream it into

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the group, so you get to watch it
earlier and sooner than anybody else.

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You might even want to put
your questions in the comments,

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just putting that out there.

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So do come and check that
out at ecommercecohort.

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com.

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And actually whilst I say that Travis,
I need to make sure that I can see

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the comments going into the group.

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So check it out.

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Like I say, ecommercecohort.

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com.

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Now that's the show sponsor.

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Let's meet.

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Today's guest, a doctor, Travis
Zigler, a visionary in more ways than

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one, from optometrist to ecommerce
whiz, Travis, alongside his wife,

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Jenna, soared to new heights with Eye
Love, turning it into a success story

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before selling it in 2021, the same
year I sold my business, ironically.

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Now, not just a business maven, He's a
philanthropic hero as well, using his

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skills in Amazon PPC and Google Ads to
support non profits and fuel his mission

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to bring vision to a billion people in
need through the I Believe Foundation.

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Travis, welcome to the show, man.

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Great to have you.

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Loving the hat, loving what
you guys are trying to do with

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reaching a billion people.

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It's really great to chat to you.

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Travis Zigler: Matt, thanks for having
me on and looking forward to giving

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a lot of value to your audience.

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And yeah, let's jump in.

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Matt Edmundson: Yeah, let's do it.

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Let's do it.

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Tell me about the, before we do jump
in, tell me about the, I believe,

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thing that  you've got going on.

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Travis Zigler: Yeah.

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So I'm pretty fortunate in the fact that
I discovered my purpose and my passion

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back in 2006 when I was still in school.

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And I went on a mission trip in Ecuador
to help people in rural Ecuador, people

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that can't afford nor obtain eye care.

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And I was a third year optometry student.

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And just had some life changing
experiences meeting people there.

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And what we noticed is that you can put
a pair of reading glasses on someone.

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And these are reading glasses
that you and I can just go to the

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corner store and buy for a dollar.

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these people don't have access to that.

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And these are people that
thought they were blind.

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They couldn't read anymore.

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It's been 30 years since
they've read a book.

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And you throw these
reading glasses on them.

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Their life changes forever, they start
crying, they think you're like a miracle

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worker, and really it's just a pair
of reading glasses, it's just physics.

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And I had that experience back in 2006,
and when I first did that we saw about

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1200 patients that week, and helped them
get glasses, and I was forever changed.

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And the I Believe Foundation was
started back in 20, I want to

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say 2017, as a result of we get
donations, mostly from ourselves.

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And then we get to tax deduct
them when we donate to our own

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foundation, but then we use that
money to fund third world clinics.

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And we've done about 14 clinics total
in our life now, and about 60, 000

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patients have been helped so far,
as far as getting glasses, surgeries

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that they need, cataract surgery.

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Eye exams.

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So I was lucky to find my purpose and
my passion very early, and everything

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I do now is to either help other
people find their passion or their

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purpose, or to help them realize that
they're not in this for the money,

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they're in for what the money can do.

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And so I show that and we do it
by action, and that's what the,

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I believe foundation's all about.

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Matt Edmundson: Fantastic.

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It sounds like a very noble
cause and obviously something

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that you're deeply connected to.

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Is your wife connected into that as well?

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Travis Zigler: Yeah, so we're both
optometrists and she was on that trip

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as well on that very first mission trip.

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And we've done 14 mission trips together.

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We've never done one separate.

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And just to go into it one step
further, what most people don't

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realize is that there are 1 billion
people, 1 billion with a B, people

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that are blind due to lack of glasses.

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Like I just saying that story, putting
a pair of reading glasses on someone.

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There are 1 billion people that
are blind just because of that.

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And so they just can't obtain eye care.

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And so that's what we're trying to do is
create more sustainability in these areas.

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But right now we just do what are
called like mash style clinics where

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we jump in there, see two to 3000
patients, and then we're out of there.

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We're trying to create
more sustainability.

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And so teaching people on those islands,
how to fit glasses, how to fit readers.

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And then if they have trouble and
they can't figure it out, then they

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can refer to a doctor if needed.

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Matt Edmundson: Yeah that's great, man.

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That's great.

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I've come across a number of
these charities where you can, and

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tell me what you think to them.

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I appreciate it's nothing to do with
ecommerce, but I'm just genuinely curious.

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Where  you wear glasses, you change
your prescription or whatever it is.

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I've got a bunch of old glasses and
cause I had the laser eye surgery done.

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So I had a bunch of old
glasses in the drawer.

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Are they of use to anybody or is
it not really of any use to anyone?

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Travis Zigler: It is, so you can donate
to the Lions Club and Lions Club is an

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international organization, so it doesn't
matter where you are in the world.

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And what the Lions Club does is they
clean them up and they organize them and

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they tell us what the prescription is.

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And then on some trips, we'll actually
take a bunch of glasses with us

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and then we'll look at somebody's
prescription, figure it out, and then

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we'll go try to find glasses for them.

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Now, with our mission trips, we're a
little more sophisticated than that, just

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cause we've been doing it for so long.

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We actually get labs in the U.

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S.

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to partner with us.

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And so we'll actually do custom
glasses for almost everybody.

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We'll go back to the U.

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S., we'll have all the glasses made, and
then we'll go back down to the country,

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wherever we saw the patients, and then
we'll dispense all the glasses to people.

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And you'd be surprised by, you'd
think that we'd lose a lot of patients

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in that regard, but we actually
still see, probably dispense like

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95 to 99 percent of the glasses.

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Still, even though we're
coming back at a later date,

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Matt Edmundson: wow.

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So you're still involved with this?

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You're still doing this
on a regular basis?

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Travis Zigler: we try to do
two to three trips a year.

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The organizations that I work
with, we do four trips a year.

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My wife and I try to do two a year.

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We have two young kids though,
so it makes it very hard.

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So right now in our young kids stage,
we are just doing one trip a year.

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And so we lead for Todos Santos
in about three months or so.

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And that's in Mexico.

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Matt Edmundson: Fantastic.

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Keep up, it sounds very
cheesy, doesn't it?

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Or corny maybe is the right
word, but keep up the good work.

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Sounds amazing, to get involved in
something like that and using the

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skills that you've got for good.

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Travis Zigler: I get to see
the world, so it's selfish too.

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I get to see parts of the world
that no one will ever see.

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Matt Edmundson: Yeah, that's true.

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You get to see different parts of it.

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And I suppose  it's a beauty
of mission trips, isn't it?

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And aid trips and things like that.

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And getting off the beaten track a
little bit and seeing maybe a different

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side to people, a different side to
the world that you don't see in the

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tourist brochures, which is always quite.

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But alas, let's carry on the
conversation about ecommerce,

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and let's start with that.

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So we're talking about lead generation.

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This is what you guys do.

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And I know in the prequel to the show,
you talked Sadaf about the sort of the

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five step process that you guys have.

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So why don't we start there and jump in.

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Bearing in mind, obviously, we're
all ecommerce dudes, or dudettes,

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or, I call myself an ecommerce
dinosaur, Travis, I'm not going to

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lie, I've been around a little while.

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So I'm really keen, really curious to hear
what your process is for lead generation

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and then I'm just going to ask you a
bunch of questions as we go through it.

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No doubt.

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Travis Zigler: Yeah.

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So the mistake I see that most common like
ecommerce entrepreneurs make is they build

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a business based on product selection.

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They say, that product looks like a
great opportunity, so now I'm going to

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build a business around that product,
and that's the wrong way to look at it.

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And I constantly beat this.

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Every show I go on, every video I
make, it's not about product selection.

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It's about people selection.

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People is where it's all about.

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And when you focus around a problem
that maybe your product will solve,

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and you build your business around
a problem, a very specific problem,

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that's how you build a real business.

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That's how you build a real audience.

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But if you don't have a problem to base
your business around, it's going to

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be very hard to build that audience.

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And this is the case for any business.

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It's not just an ecommerce business.

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I've grown a brick and mortar store.

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To multi six figures, we got that
to about 600 before we sold it.

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I've built a physical products
ecommerce store to multi millions.

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I've built an agency to multi millions,
and now I'm building a software.

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We're only at about 60, 000 in
annual recurring revenue right now,

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but we just started it in June.

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And every theme for all these
businesses is the same theme.

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I focus it around a very specific
problem to a very specific person and

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all my messaging is towards that person.

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And that is step one of lead generation,
that is step one of business startups,

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that is step one of building a
business and scaling a business, is

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focus everything around a problem.

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My ecommerce business
was all around dry eye.

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Everything we did is we spoke to the
post menopausal female that's suffering

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from dry eye due to hormonal changes.

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And then we came out with products
that she used on a daily basis

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for her dry eye and for her face
cleansing, eyelid cleansing routine.

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So we had a face wash, we had
an eye cream, and then more

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specifically, we had eyelid cleansers.

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We had eyelid wipes.

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We had warm compresses.

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These are all things that a
person that is a postmenopausal

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female that has dry eye uses.

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And so we identified the
problem being dry eye.

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Our YouTube channel was
called The Dry Eye Show.

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Our podcast was called The Dry Eye Show.

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Everything was dry eye.

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And people are like, dry eye, like,
why would you do it around that?

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It's a very specific problem that
gets a lot of searches a month.

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And that's what we dove into.

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And we were optometrists as well.

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And the funny thing is we moved from
Ohio working for someone else to South

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Carolina to start our own practices.

230
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And we wanted to be a pediatric
clinic, a clinic for kids.

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And God had other plans for us.

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And he threw all geriatrics at us.

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Like it was old person after old person.

234
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And it took us down this path of okay,
we need to do a dry eye and a glaucoma

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clinic because it's very common to
see that in that post menopausal

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female, older geriatric crowd.

237
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And then one day we were selling
a bunch of products on our shelf.

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And someone was, I was at a, I was
actually at a conference and there was

239
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a doctor on stage and they were drilling
him with questions and he was talking

240
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about his practice and how he was
selling these products and this product.

241
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And someone was just like, you're
the expert, sell your own products.

242
00:11:44,309 --> 00:11:47,399
And that's when a light bulb went off
that I'm selling all these other people's

243
00:11:47,399 --> 00:11:49,029
products, building other people's brands.

244
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I need to build my own brand.

245
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And that's how the dry eye product
business started was I started just.

246
00:11:54,709 --> 00:11:58,019
Literally everything that we sold on a
shelf for dry eye, we started coming out

247
00:11:58,019 --> 00:11:59,169
with it and that's how we started it.

248
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And then we started selling it
online, but it all started going

249
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back to step one, the problem.

250
00:12:04,529 --> 00:12:05,279
What was the problem?

251
00:12:06,194 --> 00:12:08,384
Matt Edmundson: So the,
it's interesting, isn't it?

252
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Because I was talking about this on
a previous show, where we're just

253
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talking more about entrepreneurship than
ecommerce, but how entrepreneurs are very

254
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good at spotting problems and fixing them.

255
00:12:20,614 --> 00:12:22,624
I don't know if we're very good.

256
00:12:23,154 --> 00:12:28,364
At marketing the problem, if that makes
sense, as in telling people this is the

257
00:12:28,364 --> 00:12:29,774
problem that you are suffering with.

258
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And I'm gonna show you how we solve it.

259
00:12:32,704 --> 00:12:35,289
I'm curious though, 'cause you said
for you this is the number one mistake

260
00:12:35,289 --> 00:12:40,269
everybody makes, so it becomes product
focused rather than problem focused.

261
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Does starting with the problem of dry eye.

262
00:12:45,304 --> 00:12:49,024
then coming up with a product
differ from going, this is a really

263
00:12:49,024 --> 00:12:50,984
interesting product for dry eye.

264
00:12:50,984 --> 00:12:51,854
I'm going to take that.

265
00:12:51,854 --> 00:12:54,424
I think there's a community
over here, which I think I

266
00:12:54,424 --> 00:12:56,204
can reach if that makes sense.

267
00:12:56,924 --> 00:12:57,244
Travis Zigler: Yep.

268
00:12:57,274 --> 00:12:59,674
So it does make sense.

269
00:12:59,764 --> 00:13:06,034
And the key differences are you looking
for an opportunity to sell and make money?

270
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Or are you looking for?

271
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Something that you can become passionate
about and go into that, because products

272
00:13:13,044 --> 00:13:15,204
come and go, problems usually don't.

273
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The problem is always going to be
there, and it's how you solve it.

274
00:13:19,944 --> 00:13:24,404
Products will come and go, and usually
when you have, and I'm talking about

275
00:13:24,404 --> 00:13:25,864
a very specific physical product.

276
00:13:25,864 --> 00:13:29,214
Let's, actually let's zoom out a
little bit and talk about a big

277
00:13:29,224 --> 00:13:32,794
problem right now, is the lack
of education in the AI space.

278
00:13:33,389 --> 00:13:37,459
There's all these AI tools out there,
but we don't know how to use them.

279
00:13:37,819 --> 00:13:43,099
And so what you're seeing pop up are
all these courses on how to use AI.

280
00:13:43,999 --> 00:13:45,249
That is an opportunity.

281
00:13:45,289 --> 00:13:49,639
That is a very specific prop,
product for a problem right now.

282
00:13:50,169 --> 00:13:53,949
But when you focus on just the
product, it's only going to be

283
00:13:53,949 --> 00:13:55,719
around for about 18 to 24 months.

284
00:13:56,449 --> 00:13:58,559
And then it's going to be so diluted
because you're going to be able to

285
00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,639
find anything you want on YouTube
to be able to educate yourself on

286
00:14:01,639 --> 00:14:03,469
whatever AI software you want to use.

287
00:14:03,535 --> 00:14:09,544
I don't know how I can take this to a
problem, but if we focus it over to a

288
00:14:09,544 --> 00:14:13,014
problem, the problem's always there.

289
00:14:13,234 --> 00:14:18,314
So let's say I want to
learn lead generation.

290
00:14:19,014 --> 00:14:23,824
There's always going to be problems in
lead generation and people are always

291
00:14:23,824 --> 00:14:25,764
going to be seeking that specific problem

292
00:14:26,164 --> 00:14:26,474
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

293
00:14:26,844 --> 00:14:27,124
Yeah.

294
00:14:27,244 --> 00:14:31,734
Travis Zigler: And so if we just focus
around that problem, we can come out with

295
00:14:31,734 --> 00:14:33,474
different products for whatever comes up.

296
00:14:33,904 --> 00:14:37,484
So four years ago, I had a system
around how to build an audience.

297
00:14:38,739 --> 00:14:44,419
And I still use that same system today,
but the solution has changed slightly.

298
00:14:44,819 --> 00:14:48,929
The system is basically the same, but how
I utilize the system has changed a lot.

299
00:14:49,549 --> 00:14:52,369
I don't have to go out
and hire writers anymore.

300
00:14:52,809 --> 00:14:54,289
I can use Chad GPT.

301
00:14:54,639 --> 00:14:54,969
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

302
00:14:55,629 --> 00:14:58,359
Travis Zigler: I don't have to go out and
think anymore because I can use Chad GPT.

303
00:14:58,359 --> 00:14:58,909
No, I'm just kidding.

304
00:14:59,129 --> 00:15:00,569
But it's

305
00:15:00,629 --> 00:15:01,149
Matt Edmundson: only you were.

306
00:15:03,529 --> 00:15:08,139
Travis Zigler: But the point is like,
when I focus my business around a

307
00:15:08,139 --> 00:15:13,529
problem, I adjust the products for
what's new and what's coming out.

308
00:15:13,599 --> 00:15:18,569
So my lead generation system used to
take four weeks to come out with an

309
00:15:18,579 --> 00:15:21,739
article and I'm sure we'll get into it
here in just a little bit, but it used

310
00:15:21,739 --> 00:15:24,579
to take me like four weeks to write
an article, start advertising for it

311
00:15:24,579 --> 00:15:25,799
and start generating leads for it.

312
00:15:26,329 --> 00:15:27,509
I can do it now in 30 seconds.

313
00:15:27,944 --> 00:15:32,014
Because of ChatGPT, and I
don't have to hire people.

314
00:15:32,164 --> 00:15:34,434
I don't have to manage people.

315
00:15:34,594 --> 00:15:36,124
It's all through ChatGPT.

316
00:15:36,194 --> 00:15:39,274
And so the problem remains the same.

317
00:15:40,374 --> 00:15:41,994
The product has changed.

318
00:15:42,314 --> 00:15:46,304
So when you focus on product,
you're focusing on an opportunity.

319
00:15:46,944 --> 00:15:49,534
When you focus on problems,
you're building a real business

320
00:15:49,534 --> 00:15:50,274
that's focused around that.

321
00:15:50,274 --> 00:15:51,924
And you can be flexible and change.

322
00:15:52,234 --> 00:15:53,854
And I'll give one more quick example.

323
00:15:54,444 --> 00:15:56,304
Were you in the physical products space?

324
00:15:57,819 --> 00:15:58,129
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

325
00:15:58,199 --> 00:15:58,719
I still am.

326
00:15:58,829 --> 00:15:59,119
Yes.

327
00:15:59,119 --> 00:15:59,249
Yeah.

328
00:15:59,384 --> 00:16:03,724
Travis Zigler: Okay, so you still are,
so most people teach how to select the

329
00:16:03,724 --> 00:16:08,894
perfect product, like I talked about
earlier and source it and sell it.

330
00:16:09,474 --> 00:16:12,694
The problem is everybody finds that
product and everybody sources it

331
00:16:12,694 --> 00:16:13,614
and everybody starts to sell it.

332
00:16:13,614 --> 00:16:14,814
So it's a race to the bottom.

333
00:16:15,954 --> 00:16:20,234
That was great back in 2014 and 2015 when
I first started, you could throw up a

334
00:16:20,234 --> 00:16:23,844
product, you could buy a hundred reviews
and sell a bunch and make a lot of money.

335
00:16:24,894 --> 00:16:28,504
What I noticed in 2017 though,
is that it wasn't sustainable

336
00:16:29,084 --> 00:16:30,314
because my products would shoot up.

337
00:16:30,784 --> 00:16:35,834
12 months later, they'd
start to drift down and I was

338
00:16:35,834 --> 00:16:37,254
like, this isn't sustainable.

339
00:16:37,254 --> 00:16:39,434
I'm just selling a piece
of plastic on Amazon.

340
00:16:40,094 --> 00:16:41,544
I need to focus on something real.

341
00:16:41,584 --> 00:16:43,894
And so we came out with what
was called the dry eye syndrome

342
00:16:43,894 --> 00:16:45,014
support community on Facebook.

343
00:16:45,454 --> 00:16:48,774
We just went live every
week nobody, by the way.

344
00:16:49,244 --> 00:16:52,034
And eventually after about
six months, people started

345
00:16:52,034 --> 00:16:54,594
showing up and we built that.

346
00:16:54,594 --> 00:16:56,154
I think it's 22, 000 people now.

347
00:16:56,164 --> 00:16:59,374
We don't own it anymore or anything,
but it's still going, but we

348
00:16:59,374 --> 00:17:00,194
didn't have anything to sell them.

349
00:17:00,414 --> 00:17:02,244
We just wanted to serve a person.

350
00:17:02,244 --> 00:17:03,494
We saw it a lot in our practice.

351
00:17:03,899 --> 00:17:06,559
And we just wanted to say, Hey,
we're going to focus around dry eye

352
00:17:07,159 --> 00:17:09,669
and we're going to treat it a little
differently than what most doctors do.

353
00:17:09,709 --> 00:17:12,379
Cause we had something happen in our
life where Western medicine failed

354
00:17:12,379 --> 00:17:14,709
us and Eastern medicine succeeded.

355
00:17:14,779 --> 00:17:16,129
We were told we could never have kids.

356
00:17:16,679 --> 00:17:17,929
And then we tried Eastern medicine.

357
00:17:17,929 --> 00:17:19,019
We got pregnant in six months.

358
00:17:20,129 --> 00:17:22,239
And so I was like, why can't
we do this for dry eye?

359
00:17:22,899 --> 00:17:25,169
And so we found the dry eye problem.

360
00:17:25,539 --> 00:17:27,209
We took a little bit of a
different approach to it.

361
00:17:27,219 --> 00:17:30,809
Taught people just simple, replace
your breakfast with a green smoothie.

362
00:17:32,009 --> 00:17:33,139
And drink more water.

363
00:17:33,769 --> 00:17:34,449
That was it.

364
00:17:34,949 --> 00:17:36,999
That was more effective than
all prescriptions out there.

365
00:17:36,999 --> 00:17:37,949
We actually did a study on it.

366
00:17:39,429 --> 00:17:42,899
It was crazy because it was
this different mindset, and

367
00:17:42,899 --> 00:17:44,219
that's what drew everybody in.

368
00:17:44,709 --> 00:17:47,759
But we were focusing on the
problem, and our solution changed

369
00:17:48,159 --> 00:17:49,429
as we came out with more products.

370
00:17:49,429 --> 00:17:50,739
But at the beginning, we
didn't have any products.

371
00:17:50,739 --> 00:17:51,699
We were just focusing on the problem.

372
00:17:52,369 --> 00:17:54,779
And there's something powerful about
being able to focus on a problem

373
00:17:54,789 --> 00:17:56,559
without having to sell a product.

374
00:17:56,999 --> 00:17:57,819
It's actually fun.

375
00:17:58,449 --> 00:18:01,499
Because a lot of your listeners
probably listen to Alex Ramosi

376
00:18:01,979 --> 00:18:03,269
and he says it all the time.

377
00:18:03,289 --> 00:18:04,089
I have nothing to sell you.

378
00:18:04,169 --> 00:18:04,589
Cause he doesn't.

379
00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:06,139
He knows his demographic.

380
00:18:06,139 --> 00:18:07,799
He wants somebody that's, what is it?

381
00:18:07,809 --> 00:18:12,079
Like 5 million in EBITDA or higher, or
1 million in EBITDA, I think, either

382
00:18:12,079 --> 00:18:14,139
that, and that's his target demographic.

383
00:18:14,139 --> 00:18:16,199
And he knows that one out of every.

384
00:18:16,599 --> 00:18:19,419
Probably a hundred thousand people
that listen to his podcast are

385
00:18:19,419 --> 00:18:20,629
going to be his target demographic.

386
00:18:20,669 --> 00:18:21,589
So he has nothing to sell them.

387
00:18:21,909 --> 00:18:25,079
And it's very powerful when you can solve
a problem when you have nothing to sell.

388
00:18:25,589 --> 00:18:27,179
And that's the difference.

389
00:18:27,209 --> 00:18:28,509
And I rant a lot.

390
00:18:28,509 --> 00:18:30,029
So if you need to cut me off, just cut me

391
00:18:30,239 --> 00:18:30,599
Matt Edmundson: Why?

392
00:18:30,599 --> 00:18:31,689
Yeah, I'm no, it's good.

393
00:18:31,869 --> 00:18:32,289
That's good.

394
00:18:32,499 --> 00:18:34,259
This isn't a lot of things
you said there, Travis.

395
00:18:34,309 --> 00:18:36,739
I'd love to jump in and ask you about.

396
00:18:38,149 --> 00:18:42,179
Firstly, let me, you mentioned that
you did a podcast, so you livestreamed

397
00:18:42,179 --> 00:18:46,269
a new podcast, and you livestreamed
for six months and nobody turned up.

398
00:18:46,639 --> 00:18:49,999
Now recently we had Sarah Williams
on the show who mentioned something

399
00:18:50,009 --> 00:18:55,009
similar, and I am curious why
podcasting, why livestreaming,

400
00:18:55,139 --> 00:18:56,589
and would you still do that today?

401
00:18:57,209 --> 00:18:58,689
Travis Zigler: I do still do it today.

402
00:18:58,819 --> 00:19:02,099
And but the mechanism
has changed slightly.

403
00:19:02,499 --> 00:19:04,729
And so back then we did long form.

404
00:19:04,859 --> 00:19:07,039
And so we focused on long form content.

405
00:19:07,479 --> 00:19:09,669
It was usually like an hour livestreaming.

406
00:19:09,689 --> 00:19:11,769
We loved going live because
it was authentic and real

407
00:19:11,769 --> 00:19:13,439
and people love authenticity.

408
00:19:13,619 --> 00:19:16,999
They don't love, you don't
have to have perfect videos.

409
00:19:17,009 --> 00:19:18,569
You don't have to have great editors.

410
00:19:18,914 --> 00:19:20,204
They want authenticity.

411
00:19:20,254 --> 00:19:24,684
That's why TikTok took off because
it was all this raw video footage

412
00:19:24,934 --> 00:19:28,174
that was edited by people that
didn't know what they were doing.

413
00:19:28,174 --> 00:19:29,714
And that's what made it fun and real.

414
00:19:30,074 --> 00:19:31,924
And that's what people loved
and it was entertaining.

415
00:19:32,884 --> 00:19:36,594
And so it's, I still do it today.

416
00:19:36,694 --> 00:19:37,774
I actually do it slightly different.

417
00:19:37,774 --> 00:19:38,934
So we can talk about that a little bit.

418
00:19:39,294 --> 00:19:43,754
But back then we usually focused on
30 minutes to one hour show once a

419
00:19:43,754 --> 00:19:47,454
week, we got it up to three times a
week, but we didn't notice anything

420
00:19:47,634 --> 00:19:49,154
different as far as lead generation.

421
00:19:49,154 --> 00:19:54,444
So we just went back to once a week
and now the way I've changed it is.

422
00:19:54,454 --> 00:19:59,414
So we built our audience up to about
maybe 150, 000 people across YouTube,

423
00:19:59,414 --> 00:20:01,314
across email lists, across Facebook.

424
00:20:02,004 --> 00:20:06,664
And now what I do differently
is we now do content.

425
00:20:06,764 --> 00:20:08,554
I do one long form every Monday.

426
00:20:09,094 --> 00:20:13,104
And so I go live every Monday
on my channel, and then we

427
00:20:13,104 --> 00:20:14,504
just do two shorts a day.

428
00:20:15,394 --> 00:20:18,654
And so short form video is the
way to get your reach out there.

429
00:20:19,044 --> 00:20:20,664
But people say long form is dead.

430
00:20:20,674 --> 00:20:21,984
Long form is not dead.

431
00:20:22,464 --> 00:20:25,064
People do not have short attention spans.

432
00:20:25,254 --> 00:20:26,544
You're just too boring.

433
00:20:26,624 --> 00:20:30,434
Not you specifically, but it's more
like if people aren't paying attention

434
00:20:30,434 --> 00:20:31,454
to you, you're just too boring.

435
00:20:31,454 --> 00:20:33,594
You're not giving them content
they want to tune into.

436
00:20:33,594 --> 00:20:37,594
So what we're doing now with
YouTube is we're doing this.

437
00:20:38,094 --> 00:20:41,694
It's one, not, it's like usually like
10 to 30 minutes of live every Monday,

438
00:20:42,104 --> 00:20:43,884
all our short form videos, two a day.

439
00:20:44,564 --> 00:20:48,024
And then we do this across TikTok,
Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, and

440
00:20:48,294 --> 00:20:51,204
YouTube, but we do one mashup every month.

441
00:20:51,554 --> 00:20:55,724
And what a mashup is we take a bunch
of our videos that are similar topics.

442
00:20:55,864 --> 00:21:00,014
We'll put them all together and we'll come
out with a three to four hour long video.

443
00:21:00,544 --> 00:21:00,904
Matt Edmundson: Wow.

444
00:21:01,014 --> 00:21:03,184
Travis Zigler: And those are crazy.

445
00:21:03,984 --> 00:21:08,914
And they, what YouTube loves is when you
have a three hour plus video, and this

446
00:21:08,914 --> 00:21:10,394
is something that an expert taught me.

447
00:21:10,434 --> 00:21:12,164
I just met with the YouTube expert.

448
00:21:12,534 --> 00:21:14,734
He said three hour plus videos
are killing it right now.

449
00:21:15,234 --> 00:21:16,604
And this is, his name is Drew Hitchcock.

450
00:21:16,604 --> 00:21:17,384
So shout out to Drew.

451
00:21:17,394 --> 00:21:17,804
He's great.

452
00:21:17,844 --> 00:21:18,634
He's an amazing person.

453
00:21:19,274 --> 00:21:26,184
And I did my first one and my average
view hours, cause I'm in a very specific

454
00:21:26,184 --> 00:21:29,104
niche, Amazon PPC was 10 to 20 hours.

455
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:34,549
10 to 20 viewing hours of YouTube, and it
spiked all the way up to 360 hours a day.

456
00:21:35,139 --> 00:21:39,889
And so we more than, I think
20X'd our watch hours just by

457
00:21:39,889 --> 00:21:41,379
doing one three hour video.

458
00:21:42,019 --> 00:21:45,209
So now we're doing one three hour
video or longer every single month.

459
00:21:46,054 --> 00:21:49,784
And if you can do more, kudos
to you, but it's exhausting

460
00:21:49,785 --> 00:21:52,564
because I still do it live.

461
00:21:52,634 --> 00:21:53,404
I still do it live.

462
00:21:53,924 --> 00:21:55,584
Matt Edmundson: So you do
the whole three hours live.

463
00:21:56,074 --> 00:21:57,694
Travis Zigler: So what I do is I do a mix.

464
00:21:57,774 --> 00:22:02,964
So I pick my best videos in that
topic and I'll go live and I'll

465
00:22:02,964 --> 00:22:06,004
talk and then I'll go into a video
and I'll play the recorded video.

466
00:22:06,434 --> 00:22:09,004
And then once that recorded
video is over, I'll talk and

467
00:22:09,004 --> 00:22:10,404
then we'll play the next video.

468
00:22:10,404 --> 00:22:14,994
So I preview what's coming up in
between and just answer any questions

469
00:22:14,994 --> 00:22:16,154
that come up in the comments.

470
00:22:16,549 --> 00:22:21,319
As we go, and that shoots up your
viewership, which then the more people

471
00:22:21,319 --> 00:22:24,089
watch you, the more they're going to trust
you, the more they're going to like you.

472
00:22:24,449 --> 00:22:26,529
And that's why a podcast is so effective.

473
00:22:26,529 --> 00:22:31,219
And what you're doing is because you're
in somebody's ear every single day.

474
00:22:31,819 --> 00:22:33,919
And that intimacy is huge.

475
00:22:33,959 --> 00:22:37,039
And so they learn to trust you and they
learn to know you and they know more

476
00:22:37,039 --> 00:22:40,149
about you than you sometimes, because
when they meet you in person, they bring

477
00:22:40,149 --> 00:22:42,829
up all this stuff and you're like, I
don't know who you are, they've been

478
00:22:42,829 --> 00:22:44,299
listening to your podcast for years now.

479
00:22:44,514 --> 00:22:44,884
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

480
00:22:44,884 --> 00:22:46,134
It happens quite a lot now, actually.

481
00:22:46,144 --> 00:22:46,914
It's quite funny.

482
00:22:46,964 --> 00:22:47,964
Yeah, really quite funny.

483
00:22:48,484 --> 00:22:54,004
And three hour long videos is quite
an interesting idea because, and

484
00:22:54,004 --> 00:22:55,074
you're right, long form is not dead.

485
00:22:55,074 --> 00:22:58,864
Andrew Huberman show, which is one of
the best listened to podcasts is normally

486
00:22:58,864 --> 00:23:00,314
two and a half hours, three hours long.

487
00:23:00,504 --> 00:23:01,844
Travis Zigler: Tim Ferris, Joe Rogan, all

488
00:23:01,964 --> 00:23:03,184
Matt Edmundson: yeah, all of those guys.

489
00:23:03,184 --> 00:23:04,524
And it's just them chatting away.

490
00:23:04,954 --> 00:23:07,044
But you're right, it's got
to be interesting, right?

491
00:23:07,444 --> 00:23:10,164
And the temptation on this show has
always been, should we go to 20 minutes?

492
00:23:10,164 --> 00:23:12,204
Because everyone was talking,
short form, you've got to get

493
00:23:12,204 --> 00:23:13,724
it down to the commute time.

494
00:23:13,724 --> 00:23:15,624
And  no, we don't, we like where we're at.

495
00:23:16,064 --> 00:23:19,084
I feel like actually we're a short
form show now when we're an hour long,

496
00:23:19,144 --> 00:23:22,774
when all the other ones are like two,
three hours, but yeah, interesting.

497
00:23:23,384 --> 00:23:26,314
So we've got phase one
Identify the problem.

498
00:23:27,284 --> 00:23:28,594
Where do we go from there?

499
00:23:29,609 --> 00:23:32,329
Travis Zigler: So I'm going to speak
specifically, actually no, you can

500
00:23:32,329 --> 00:23:35,959
use this for anything, but I'll speak
specifically on like dry eye just

501
00:23:35,959 --> 00:23:40,059
because that's the example we've been
going off of what I do then, and this

502
00:23:40,059 --> 00:23:44,519
is a very specific tactic now, is
I'll take, I'll think of a list of all

503
00:23:44,519 --> 00:23:46,209
the problems that my product solves.

504
00:23:46,210 --> 00:23:50,999
And so dry eyes, blepharitis, It's
just inflammation of the eyelids,

505
00:23:51,329 --> 00:23:53,239
styes, which is a bump on your eyelids.

506
00:23:53,629 --> 00:23:56,979
And I'll think of all the problems
that my products can solve, or all the

507
00:23:56,979 --> 00:24:01,209
problems that I'm focusing on, and I'll
put them into Google Keyword Planner.

508
00:24:02,369 --> 00:24:05,999
And I just search for those keywords
and, Google Keyword Planner comes up with

509
00:24:05,999 --> 00:24:08,289
a bunch of different keywords for you.

510
00:24:08,704 --> 00:24:09,214
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

511
00:24:09,239 --> 00:24:13,239
Travis Zigler: what I look for on there
is words that have a high search volume.

512
00:24:14,324 --> 00:24:19,024
It can be anywhere from 50, 000 and
above a month to 300, a million a month.

513
00:24:19,524 --> 00:24:23,034
But the higher, the better
with low competition score.

514
00:24:23,694 --> 00:24:28,004
And so Google Keyword Planner gives you
a competition score and that competition

515
00:24:28,004 --> 00:24:30,374
score and it gives you the bids as well.

516
00:24:30,884 --> 00:24:33,474
But that competition is how
competitive is it on Google Ads and

517
00:24:33,474 --> 00:24:34,954
how expensive is it on Google Ads?

518
00:24:35,794 --> 00:24:39,694
And the key thing here is when you
focus on product based keywords,

519
00:24:40,289 --> 00:24:41,589
everybody's going after those.

520
00:24:41,909 --> 00:24:46,399
And so your bid is going to be a lot
higher when you focus on problem based

521
00:24:46,399 --> 00:24:48,559
keywords, your bids are a lot lower.

522
00:24:49,059 --> 00:24:52,989
And so the last year I was with my
company in 2022, cause I still work

523
00:24:53,009 --> 00:24:53,939
for them for a year and a half.

524
00:24:54,529 --> 00:25:00,979
We drove millions of clicks to our
blog, an average of 6 cents a click.

525
00:25:01,614 --> 00:25:02,044
Matt Edmundson: Okay.

526
00:25:02,524 --> 00:25:03,064
That's pretty

527
00:25:03,079 --> 00:25:04,829
Travis Zigler: because it's very cheap.

528
00:25:05,149 --> 00:25:08,729
It's because we focus on the
problem versus the product.

529
00:25:08,909 --> 00:25:12,669
And so we'd write an article,
three steps to eliminate a sty.

530
00:25:13,239 --> 00:25:17,689
We target STI and the
solution was our product.

531
00:25:17,909 --> 00:25:20,139
Now you have to be careful with
FDA structure function claims.

532
00:25:20,149 --> 00:25:24,239
So I'm not giving you advice
on that, but it's problem

533
00:25:24,239 --> 00:25:26,139
number one or step number one.

534
00:25:26,209 --> 00:25:27,119
Clean your eyelids.

535
00:25:27,399 --> 00:25:28,179
Use this.

536
00:25:28,439 --> 00:25:30,369
Step number two, spray your eyelids.

537
00:25:30,369 --> 00:25:31,099
Use this.

538
00:25:31,549 --> 00:25:36,379
And it was just this problem
based keyword going to a blog

539
00:25:36,379 --> 00:25:38,159
post, an advertorial, if you will.

540
00:25:39,249 --> 00:25:42,919
And it talks about the problem
first and then the solution second.

541
00:25:43,009 --> 00:25:44,659
And then your product is in the solution.

542
00:25:45,199 --> 00:25:50,439
So we're getting six cent clicks to our
blog, and then we're converting them to

543
00:25:50,439 --> 00:25:53,009
buy over on Amazon, on our Shopify store.

544
00:25:53,339 --> 00:25:56,219
We mostly push to Amazon because
Amazon loves external traffic,

545
00:25:56,539 --> 00:25:59,949
and so it boosts you up in the
organic rank when you do that.

546
00:26:00,229 --> 00:26:06,039
And so you're sending millions of
clicks to your blog, and that blog

547
00:26:06,039 --> 00:26:09,359
article is almost like it helps
increase your conversion rate on Amazon.

548
00:26:09,959 --> 00:26:11,379
Because not everybody's
going to click through.

549
00:26:12,279 --> 00:26:13,989
But here's where the magic happens.

550
00:26:15,159 --> 00:26:19,079
When people come over to your blog,
and they sit on your blog and they

551
00:26:19,079 --> 00:26:21,539
read it for a long time, we usually
put a video at the top too so they can

552
00:26:21,549 --> 00:26:25,529
watch a video about the same topic, and
when they sit on your blog for a long

553
00:26:25,529 --> 00:26:28,089
period of time, your SEO increases.

554
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,519
And so you have these six cent clicks
going over to your blog, but then as

555
00:26:32,519 --> 00:26:36,244
your SEO increases, You're going to
start getting organic traffic as well.

556
00:26:36,764 --> 00:26:38,324
And then your ROAS goes through the roof.

557
00:26:38,334 --> 00:26:42,584
Your return on ad spend just shoots
up because you're now getting organic

558
00:26:42,604 --> 00:26:48,364
and paid to these blog posts, plus
we can get further into the strategy.

559
00:26:48,654 --> 00:26:51,744
Plus we have pop ups where we're trying
to get their email address as well.

560
00:26:52,094 --> 00:26:54,374
So then you can further
market to them as well.

561
00:26:55,914 --> 00:26:57,364
I'm going to stop there just to kind of

562
00:26:58,024 --> 00:27:00,354
Matt Edmundson: I'm making lots of
notes, Travis, as we go through.

563
00:27:01,284 --> 00:27:03,324
I'm intrigued by this
because you're right.

564
00:27:04,684 --> 00:27:08,754
We sell on our site, and we
sell on Amazon, and Amazon

565
00:27:08,754 --> 00:27:10,224
loves it if we send traffic.

566
00:27:10,684 --> 00:27:12,664
Using something like Google.

567
00:27:12,934 --> 00:27:18,354
It's problematic in a lot of ways
to send from Google direct to Amazon

568
00:27:18,354 --> 00:27:21,064
for a whole bunch of reasons I
won't bore people with right now.

569
00:27:21,094 --> 00:27:25,654
But this idea of sending them to the
blog and then using the blog to send

570
00:27:25,654 --> 00:27:28,694
them to Amazon is actually, is an
idea that's been around for a while.

571
00:27:28,694 --> 00:27:31,259
And I think it's one of those things that
people have forgotten about for a little.

572
00:27:31,719 --> 00:27:34,309
Time they years ago, we did the
blogs and it's let's do the blogs.

573
00:27:34,309 --> 00:27:38,559
And then all this other stuff came
along like TikTok, and Instagram.

574
00:27:38,559 --> 00:27:40,119
And it's we'll forget
about the blog over here.

575
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:41,309
And we'll focus on over here.

576
00:27:41,869 --> 00:27:44,849
And actually what I like about
the strategy is it's a bit old

577
00:27:44,849 --> 00:27:48,169
school if you don't mind me saying
but we all know it works right.

578
00:27:48,189 --> 00:27:49,739
And the simple stuff works.

579
00:27:49,949 --> 00:27:51,389
What I'm curious about is.

580
00:27:52,374 --> 00:27:55,374
You're sending, say, a million
people to your blog post.

581
00:27:56,304 --> 00:27:58,994
How many of those million people
are then going over to Amazon?

582
00:27:59,594 --> 00:28:04,584
Do you, is it a bit like I know that if I
send to my landing page on my website for

583
00:28:04,584 --> 00:28:08,304
that product, I'm going to send how many,
7 percent of people going to click through

584
00:28:08,304 --> 00:28:11,784
and out of those 35 percent of people
are going to buy, whatever the stats are.

585
00:28:12,124 --> 00:28:15,634
Did you notice that it was significantly
lower or higher when you did the

586
00:28:15,634 --> 00:28:17,474
blog post to Amazon strategy?

587
00:28:18,084 --> 00:28:22,054
Travis Zigler: So conversion rate stays
anywhere from that one to 5 percent range.

588
00:28:22,394 --> 00:28:25,404
Just like it would whenever you drive
to your website, if you get up to 5

589
00:28:25,404 --> 00:28:28,914
percent that's great as but the reason
we send to Amazon is because our

590
00:28:28,964 --> 00:28:33,314
conversion rate on Amazon is so high
and frictionless buying experience.

591
00:28:33,424 --> 00:28:36,634
Amazon has just perfected the
buying experience, makes it very

592
00:28:36,634 --> 00:28:37,714
easy for the person to buy it.

593
00:28:37,784 --> 00:28:40,994
Now going back to something that you
were concerned with, sending Google

594
00:28:40,994 --> 00:28:44,014
ads direct to Amazon, we still do
that a lot for product based keywords.

595
00:28:44,489 --> 00:28:48,129
Just to get them right over there,
and your concern was conversion rate.

596
00:28:48,229 --> 00:28:52,319
It decreases your conversion rate,
but, however, it does not penalize you.

597
00:28:52,329 --> 00:28:55,269
So Amazon wants you to
send that external traffic.

598
00:28:55,269 --> 00:28:58,399
So if you're sending Google ads
direct to Amazon and it's only

599
00:28:58,399 --> 00:28:59,849
converting it like one to two percent.

600
00:29:00,489 --> 00:29:05,679
That's okay, because you're sending Amazon
a customer and they love it, so they

601
00:29:05,679 --> 00:29:09,199
will still boost you in the organic rank,
even if your conversion rate is lower for

602
00:29:09,199 --> 00:29:12,719
those and it will take that into account,
it won't penalize you in that regard,

603
00:29:13,269 --> 00:29:17,639
and same thing here, when you go to the
blog and you're sending external traffic,

604
00:29:17,639 --> 00:29:21,015
it's just another source of external
traffic, another outside signal, I call

605
00:29:21,015 --> 00:29:25,059
it my moat around your Amazon listing,
so we have Google Ads Direct, we have

606
00:29:25,464 --> 00:29:27,914
Google ads to a blog post, then to Amazon.

607
00:29:28,164 --> 00:29:29,834
Then we do Facebook ads to Amazon.

608
00:29:30,234 --> 00:29:33,944
And even though these are lower converting
things, and then TikTok ads now to Amazon.

609
00:29:34,444 --> 00:29:37,404
Even though they're lower converting,
Amazon still rewards you because they

610
00:29:37,404 --> 00:29:39,014
know their lifetime value of the customer.

611
00:29:39,044 --> 00:29:41,374
They're going to get them on Prime,
they're going to sell them videos,

612
00:29:41,374 --> 00:29:44,034
they're going to sell them products,
they're going to sell them everything.

613
00:29:44,464 --> 00:29:47,124
And so they won't penalize you because
you're sending them a customer.

614
00:29:47,284 --> 00:29:50,294
And we've done it through countless
clients and shown the data it's

615
00:29:50,294 --> 00:29:54,134
crazy how fast you can rank something
by sending that external traffic.

616
00:29:54,834 --> 00:29:59,974
Now, with regards to the blog post,
I love how you called it old school.

617
00:30:00,804 --> 00:30:05,789
And that's what I love about it,
is because Every entrepreneur gets

618
00:30:05,929 --> 00:30:07,769
distracted by the new shiny object

619
00:30:07,844 --> 00:30:08,474
Matt Edmundson: Signing objects.

620
00:30:08,594 --> 00:30:08,834
Yeah.

621
00:30:09,989 --> 00:30:15,019
Travis Zigler: Shiny object syndrome
is just you realizing what you're doing

622
00:30:15,019 --> 00:30:17,759
right now is too hard to keep going.

623
00:30:17,979 --> 00:30:21,499
So you're going to jump over here to try
this over here because it's brand new.

624
00:30:21,499 --> 00:30:21,969
It's fresh.

625
00:30:21,969 --> 00:30:22,689
It's shiny.

626
00:30:22,959 --> 00:30:24,709
And most entrepreneurs are quick starts.

627
00:30:25,109 --> 00:30:28,969
So they hate the monotony of doing
the same thing over and over again.

628
00:30:29,309 --> 00:30:31,989
And they want to jump over here to do
this because this is now getting too hard.

629
00:30:32,709 --> 00:30:36,239
So I'm going to jump over here
and start doing this and I've been

630
00:30:36,239 --> 00:30:38,229
doing this strategy since 2017.

631
00:30:38,629 --> 00:30:41,799
And like I said, I've built a practice
with it, a brick and mortar store.

632
00:30:42,109 --> 00:30:45,259
I built our ecommerce physical
products brand, I built our agency,

633
00:30:45,259 --> 00:30:48,729
and now I'm building my software
with the same exact philosophy.

634
00:30:49,069 --> 00:30:53,769
It's so old school, so awesome, and it
works so well, but the cool thing is.

635
00:30:54,379 --> 00:30:55,849
You can add TikTok to this strategy.

636
00:30:55,959 --> 00:30:59,049
Like I said, you can add a TikTok
video to the top of your blog, and

637
00:30:59,049 --> 00:31:01,749
then you can have a little follow
me on TikTok right below that video.

638
00:31:02,229 --> 00:31:03,649
And then you can gain
subscribers with this.

639
00:31:03,669 --> 00:31:06,199
You can use it to gain
subscribers on social media.

640
00:31:06,199 --> 00:31:07,469
You can use it to build your email list.

641
00:31:07,469 --> 00:31:09,959
You can build it, use it
to sell digital products.

642
00:31:11,294 --> 00:31:12,924
It works for absolutely anything.

643
00:31:13,364 --> 00:31:15,534
You could do it for a restaurant.

644
00:31:15,614 --> 00:31:18,534
I could do it for a restaurant down the
street and we could make the five best

645
00:31:18,534 --> 00:31:20,224
places to have dinner in Columbus, Ohio.

646
00:31:20,654 --> 00:31:24,134
And then you can target just the
people in the five mile radius with

647
00:31:24,134 --> 00:31:25,564
that article and you're number one.

648
00:31:26,234 --> 00:31:28,244
It's so easy to use this strategy.

649
00:31:28,624 --> 00:31:29,004
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

650
00:31:29,114 --> 00:31:30,004
Yeah, absolutely.

651
00:31:31,804 --> 00:31:32,824
I'm sold, man.

652
00:31:32,864 --> 00:31:33,344
I'm sold.

653
00:31:33,344 --> 00:31:35,494
So we've got the problem.

654
00:31:35,704 --> 00:31:38,674
We've made a list of our problems,
we've created posts, we're sending

655
00:31:38,674 --> 00:31:40,074
traffic left, right and centre.

656
00:31:40,494 --> 00:31:43,524
Is there anything else to this
strategy that you have that we need

657
00:31:43,524 --> 00:31:44,974
to think through or think about?

658
00:31:45,444 --> 00:31:45,664
Travis Zigler: Yeah.

659
00:31:45,664 --> 00:31:49,084
So when we've talked about it briefly,
but like when we're on the blog post,

660
00:31:49,514 --> 00:31:51,134
we then want to get their email address.

661
00:31:52,074 --> 00:31:55,664
We're going to get them as a
lead, and once you get them

662
00:31:55,664 --> 00:31:58,624
into your email sequence, you
then have a welcome sequence.

663
00:31:59,554 --> 00:32:03,924
Most people will do short form email, then
just welcome them and try to sell them.

664
00:32:04,844 --> 00:32:09,194
I like to do longer emails in
the welcome sequence to really go

665
00:32:09,254 --> 00:32:15,834
and hit and agitate the problem a
little bit more and show them, tell

666
00:32:15,854 --> 00:32:17,554
them my story on how I fixed it.

667
00:32:18,464 --> 00:32:22,134
So Amazon PPC, I was frustrated with it.

668
00:32:22,164 --> 00:32:24,644
I hired, I had six different softwares.

669
00:32:24,644 --> 00:32:26,444
I hired four agencies, they all sucked.

670
00:32:27,034 --> 00:32:27,784
And so what did I do?

671
00:32:27,784 --> 00:32:28,874
I came out with my own agency.

672
00:32:29,524 --> 00:32:34,634
And it was because the problem just was
irritated more and more to the point where

673
00:32:34,634 --> 00:32:36,834
I was just like, I know how to do this.

674
00:32:36,914 --> 00:32:37,734
I just need to do it.

675
00:32:38,104 --> 00:32:40,984
And so then I hired my best friend.

676
00:32:41,384 --> 00:32:43,014
We became co founders in the agency.

677
00:32:43,384 --> 00:32:44,644
We onboarded 10 clients.

678
00:32:45,254 --> 00:32:46,304
And the rest is history.

679
00:32:46,304 --> 00:32:50,924
Now we have a team of 13 and we're
not a big agency or we still are

680
00:32:50,924 --> 00:32:55,904
very small, but we're a little higher
price because we do a little bit more.

681
00:32:55,914 --> 00:32:56,804
We do this whole process for

682
00:32:57,144 --> 00:33:01,264
But getting them on that email sequence,
they read my story, they learn the

683
00:33:01,264 --> 00:33:03,084
problems I had and why I came out with it.

684
00:33:03,134 --> 00:33:07,494
I do that over the course of seven
emails and those long emails are

685
00:33:07,494 --> 00:33:09,674
the same as your long form content.

686
00:33:10,549 --> 00:33:14,999
60 minutes in someone's ear, 20
minutes of them reading an email.

687
00:33:15,379 --> 00:33:18,229
If they read every single word of
that email, they're yours for life.

688
00:33:19,189 --> 00:33:19,759
Dry eye.

689
00:33:19,769 --> 00:33:20,829
My wife had dry eye.

690
00:33:20,919 --> 00:33:22,119
This is what we did to solve it.

691
00:33:22,519 --> 00:33:24,559
We tell people the story
of our fertility journey.

692
00:33:25,039 --> 00:33:29,009
People know everything about our lives
because we share intimate details.

693
00:33:29,019 --> 00:33:29,769
It's authentic.

694
00:33:29,769 --> 00:33:30,379
It's real.

695
00:33:30,759 --> 00:33:32,699
And I don't do it to sell more products.

696
00:33:32,699 --> 00:33:35,299
I do it because people
want genuine connection.

697
00:33:35,354 --> 00:33:36,429
We're going to be talking about
email marketing with the people

698
00:33:36,429 --> 00:33:37,284
they're doing business with.

699
00:33:37,974 --> 00:33:40,744
People want to do business
with people, not businesses.

700
00:33:40,744 --> 00:33:43,114
We actually, we don't do a
lot of email marketing for

701
00:33:43,114 --> 00:33:44,264
clients, but we do for a couple.

702
00:33:44,874 --> 00:33:46,824
And the one was like,
Hey, I want to switch it.

703
00:33:47,184 --> 00:33:49,674
So instead of saying my name at
the end of emails, I want you

704
00:33:49,674 --> 00:33:50,844
to start saying the brand name.

705
00:33:51,494 --> 00:33:52,624
And we're like, absolutely not.

706
00:33:53,134 --> 00:33:54,384
And I was like, we are not doing that.

707
00:33:54,794 --> 00:33:56,024
This brand is personal.

708
00:33:56,034 --> 00:33:56,374
This is

709
00:33:56,504 --> 00:33:56,844
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

710
00:33:56,914 --> 00:33:57,594
Travis Zigler: the business name.

711
00:33:58,174 --> 00:34:00,724
And that goes the same thing
with like your channels.

712
00:34:01,104 --> 00:34:04,584
So if you guys go to follow me
on social media, If you look up

713
00:34:04,584 --> 00:34:08,124
Profitable Pineapple, you'll find
me, but you're not going to find

714
00:34:08,124 --> 00:34:11,474
many channels around Profitable
Pineapple because it's around Dr.

715
00:34:11,474 --> 00:34:12,304
Travis Zigler.

716
00:34:12,774 --> 00:34:16,764
You look up on YouTube, LinkedIn,
TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, it's Dr.

717
00:34:16,764 --> 00:34:17,544
Travis Zigler.

718
00:34:18,264 --> 00:34:22,694
I have made the brand me personally,
and that does two things.

719
00:34:22,734 --> 00:34:26,474
It makes it personal, like we just talked
about, but when you're ready to pivot.

720
00:34:27,189 --> 00:34:30,579
And maybe move into something else, like
with me with software, I have the agency

721
00:34:30,579 --> 00:34:34,379
still, and that's not going anywhere,
but I'm pivoting to the software.

722
00:34:34,709 --> 00:34:36,759
I can use my personal
brand to help with that.

723
00:34:37,469 --> 00:34:41,599
And let's say in 10 years, I don't
know if I'll be doing what I'm doing

724
00:34:41,599 --> 00:34:43,899
now, I still have my personal brand.

725
00:34:44,544 --> 00:34:45,734
To pivot to that.

726
00:34:45,774 --> 00:34:47,824
And a great example of
this is Mike Dillard.

727
00:34:48,284 --> 00:34:52,904
If anybody follows him out there,
he's gone from magnetic marketing

728
00:34:53,454 --> 00:34:59,404
to a list grow list building course
to a health because he battled for

729
00:34:59,404 --> 00:35:02,154
his life and he told everything he
learned from that for three years.

730
00:35:02,154 --> 00:35:04,514
He almost died and now he's
doing richer every day.

731
00:35:04,534 --> 00:35:05,834
And then he's back to audience growth.

732
00:35:06,304 --> 00:35:10,414
And so like through all those pivots, I
bought every single one of his products.

733
00:35:11,089 --> 00:35:15,759
Because I trust him and he's a
great person and great human.

734
00:35:15,759 --> 00:35:17,369
So that's a great example
of personal branding.

735
00:35:17,369 --> 00:35:22,474
Another one, Elon Musk has 160
million followers on X, whereas

736
00:35:22,474 --> 00:35:28,014
in Tesla and Tesla has I think 22
million, SpaceX has 32 million.

737
00:35:28,444 --> 00:35:31,484
Tesla is the second most valuable
company in the world at over a

738
00:35:31,484 --> 00:35:33,134
trillion dollar valuation market cap.

739
00:35:33,849 --> 00:35:37,159
Apple, I think is more right now,
but I think they'll swap soon.

740
00:35:37,609 --> 00:35:43,899
But Elon has 160 million followers,
almost eight times more than Tesla, the

741
00:35:43,899 --> 00:35:45,309
second most valuable company in the world.

742
00:35:45,859 --> 00:35:49,329
So think about that when you're
creating this is make it personal.

743
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,419
And so when you're building that email
list out, don't be afraid to share.

744
00:35:52,704 --> 00:35:54,114
Your struggles, your wins.

745
00:35:54,724 --> 00:35:57,534
I was open and honest about
what we went through in Q4.

746
00:35:57,534 --> 00:36:00,474
Last year we fired our
COO and five other people.

747
00:36:00,474 --> 00:36:03,784
The COO was one, one of my best
friends from college, and it was

748
00:36:03,784 --> 00:36:06,654
probably one of the hardest decisions
I made, but it was necessary and

749
00:36:06,654 --> 00:36:07,764
I shared that with my audience.

750
00:36:08,309 --> 00:36:11,039
Yes, our agency was in turmoil.

751
00:36:11,279 --> 00:36:13,979
We had to let go of five
people, but we were fine.

752
00:36:14,099 --> 00:36:15,829
We're better off now than we were then.

753
00:36:15,959 --> 00:36:19,299
And we were honest and people are
like, that's what I love about you

754
00:36:19,299 --> 00:36:20,419
is because you're so authentic.

755
00:36:20,419 --> 00:36:22,569
You're so real and you're so transparent.

756
00:36:23,059 --> 00:36:25,289
And so you're going to
get trusted listeners.

757
00:36:25,794 --> 00:36:26,764
The more personal you go.

758
00:36:26,774 --> 00:36:29,634
So to answer your question,
email list is the next step.

759
00:36:31,379 --> 00:36:32,219
Matt Edmundson: bringing it back round.

760
00:36:32,519 --> 00:36:36,969
I'm curious on the personal brand, I'm
aware of time, Travis, so I don't want

761
00:36:36,969 --> 00:36:42,059
to monopolise all the time, but you talk
about building the personal brand, and

762
00:36:42,059 --> 00:36:45,949
there's always this interesting dilemma,
I think, because you take someone like

763
00:36:45,959 --> 00:36:47,959
Elon Musk who is a classic example.

764
00:36:47,969 --> 00:36:52,224
He is, like you say, is You know, there's
Elon Musk, but he is in sort of some

765
00:36:52,224 --> 00:36:55,154
ways inseparable from Tesla, right?

766
00:36:55,154 --> 00:36:58,094
And Tesla is built off
the back of Elon Musk.

767
00:36:58,094 --> 00:37:01,649
Would Tesla have been as
profitable without Elon Musk?

768
00:37:01,649 --> 00:37:02,084
I don't know.

769
00:37:02,164 --> 00:37:04,414
And so you there's sort of
these questions, isn't there?

770
00:37:04,604 --> 00:37:09,484
But if I bring it into the fact that
we're not all Elon Musk and probably the

771
00:37:09,484 --> 00:37:14,384
circle of people we'll influence will be
hundreds, not millions in a lot of ways.

772
00:37:14,944 --> 00:37:18,404
If you How do you balance
building your personal brand?

773
00:37:18,404 --> 00:37:21,334
So let's go back to your
e-commerce site that dealt with.

774
00:37:21,334 --> 00:37:22,564
Try eye that you sold.

775
00:37:22,564 --> 00:37:26,934
So if you build that around you and your
wife, the people coming in to buy it

776
00:37:26,939 --> 00:37:28,194
have then got a problem, haven't they?

777
00:37:28,194 --> 00:37:32,064
Because it's built around your
personality and your wife's personality.

778
00:37:32,594 --> 00:37:34,724
But of course you are exiting
the bus, the business.

779
00:37:34,729 --> 00:37:35,744
So how did you manage that?

780
00:37:36,904 --> 00:37:37,204
Travis Zigler: Yeah.

781
00:37:37,214 --> 00:37:37,904
Great question.

782
00:37:37,904 --> 00:37:43,744
So if your plan, everybody's
plan maybe is to exit eventually.

783
00:37:44,414 --> 00:37:47,094
And if you build it around you personally.

784
00:37:47,444 --> 00:37:50,699
That part of the business is
gonna be less valuable, and that

785
00:37:50,699 --> 00:37:52,559
is true than if you did a brand.

786
00:37:53,039 --> 00:37:56,609
But if you build it around your
personalities, it's gonna grow faster.

787
00:37:57,469 --> 00:38:01,609
So what you can do is as you start
to grow and as you're getting ready

788
00:38:01,609 --> 00:38:06,169
to pivot out of it, maybe sell it,
plan for that, and then you can start

789
00:38:06,169 --> 00:38:08,539
bringing in other doctors into the space.

790
00:38:08,539 --> 00:38:13,579
So what I'm doing right now
is bringing other people on my

791
00:38:13,579 --> 00:38:14,819
channel that are on my team.

792
00:38:15,149 --> 00:38:18,139
So people are getting used to
seeing other faces on my channel.

793
00:38:18,389 --> 00:38:22,559
It's still branded towards me, but
if I were to ever pivot, I would

794
00:38:22,559 --> 00:38:26,299
just change the name to the brand
name or whatever you want to do

795
00:38:26,849 --> 00:38:28,729
and start bringing other people on.

796
00:38:29,359 --> 00:38:30,929
And that's what I would do.

797
00:38:31,469 --> 00:38:33,649
I never build a business to sell it.

798
00:38:34,419 --> 00:38:36,739
I build a business because I
love to build that business.

799
00:38:36,869 --> 00:38:41,279
I fall in love with the
process versus the end goal.

800
00:38:42,069 --> 00:38:46,209
And that's, I think, one of the biggest
problems entrepreneurs have is they're so

801
00:38:46,209 --> 00:38:48,179
focused on the end goal and getting there.

802
00:38:48,644 --> 00:38:51,974
There Payout and their exit
that they forget to fall in

803
00:38:51,974 --> 00:38:53,624
love with the whole process.

804
00:38:53,884 --> 00:38:57,394
And then they're miserable the
whole time I love what I'm doing.

805
00:38:57,424 --> 00:38:58,964
I love coaching entrepreneurs.

806
00:38:59,224 --> 00:39:04,734
I love agency life, like it's very
hard to manage lots of clients only

807
00:39:04,734 --> 00:39:08,774
because when something's wrong, they
come to me when something's not wrong.

808
00:39:08,774 --> 00:39:11,594
They stay with the
account manager, but it's.

809
00:39:12,399 --> 00:39:14,279
No matter what you do for
them, they're never happy.

810
00:39:15,019 --> 00:39:19,529
And that's the we've, we have
some very happy clients, but

811
00:39:19,529 --> 00:39:20,869
like we had a very happy client.

812
00:39:20,869 --> 00:39:23,189
We grew them over 300 percent
over the course of a year and a

813
00:39:23,189 --> 00:39:26,499
half, and they almost dropped us.

814
00:39:27,234 --> 00:39:29,854
And it was just like, I got on the
phone and I was like, what's going on?

815
00:39:29,854 --> 00:39:31,004
And he told me everything.

816
00:39:31,004 --> 00:39:32,424
And I was like let's just fix that.

817
00:39:33,014 --> 00:39:36,694
And no matter what you do, you're
building other people's brands.

818
00:39:36,724 --> 00:39:39,764
And if you don't continue to do
that, they'll turn on you like that.

819
00:39:39,824 --> 00:39:41,334
And that's what the agency life is hard.

820
00:39:41,674 --> 00:39:43,094
I don't know what I was
getting at with this.

821
00:39:45,214 --> 00:39:48,064
Matt Edmundson: We were talking
about personal brand and swapping

822
00:39:48,064 --> 00:39:49,984
over, and bringing other people in,

823
00:39:50,664 --> 00:39:50,934
Travis Zigler: Yeah.

824
00:39:50,934 --> 00:39:55,304
So that's what I would do is just
switch my channel to my brand and

825
00:39:55,304 --> 00:39:58,134
then have other people on it if
you're going, getting ready to sell.

826
00:39:58,134 --> 00:40:00,154
But yeah, going back to
how I make a business.

827
00:40:01,129 --> 00:40:02,099
I don't look to sell it.

828
00:40:02,139 --> 00:40:04,629
When I sold Eye Love,
it was a strategic sell.

829
00:40:04,979 --> 00:40:07,699
It was to somebody that was
already in 6, 000 doctor's offices.

830
00:40:08,039 --> 00:40:10,569
They're in 6, 000 eye
care doctor's offices.

831
00:40:11,079 --> 00:40:12,509
They didn't know how to
do direct to consumer.

832
00:40:13,059 --> 00:40:15,519
So they brought us on to do
all their direct to consumer.

833
00:40:15,729 --> 00:40:20,629
They have nine brands and we scaled
all their brands direct to consumer.

834
00:40:20,709 --> 00:40:22,459
And then they took our
products to wholesale.

835
00:40:23,049 --> 00:40:24,289
That was the dream.

836
00:40:25,139 --> 00:40:26,249
didn't work out that way.

837
00:40:26,629 --> 00:40:29,259
But that was the whole dream of
what we were trying to create.

838
00:40:29,779 --> 00:40:33,869
And 18 months later, they ended
up, we ended up parting ways.

839
00:40:33,959 --> 00:40:37,439
And unfortunately the brand's
on the downswing, like always.

840
00:40:37,809 --> 00:40:41,159
But it's one of those things like
build a brand you love so much that

841
00:40:41,159 --> 00:40:42,659
you never think about selling it.

842
00:40:43,409 --> 00:40:43,849
That's just my

843
00:40:44,034 --> 00:40:47,364
Matt Edmundson: It's a really
interesting point because, again,

844
00:40:47,364 --> 00:40:50,584
I'm going old school here because
when I started in entrepreneurship.

845
00:40:52,254 --> 00:40:55,244
There was a chap that everybody was
raving about called Michael Gerber.

846
00:40:55,254 --> 00:40:58,704
He wrote the book called The E Myth
and the whole premise of that book

847
00:40:58,704 --> 00:41:02,174
at the time, which everybody read
was you build a business to sell it.

848
00:41:02,744 --> 00:41:05,584
And if you're going to build a business
to sell it, you need to systemize the

849
00:41:05,584 --> 00:41:09,074
crap out of it because it needs to work
really well in the hands of a teenager.

850
00:41:09,554 --> 00:41:12,824
And he used the Grey Croc
McDonald's example, as a, as.

851
00:41:13,324 --> 00:41:15,574
And how you've built a business
around teenagers which someone

852
00:41:15,574 --> 00:41:16,364
could then come and buy.

853
00:41:16,364 --> 00:41:18,784
So he's a big fan of franchising
and all kinds of stuff.

854
00:41:19,434 --> 00:41:22,974
But the basic premise was, you build
a business to sell it because if

855
00:41:22,974 --> 00:41:27,404
you don't sell it to someone you're
in effect buying it with your time.

856
00:41:27,924 --> 00:41:29,624
And I love what you've talked
about there because that's

857
00:41:29,624 --> 00:41:31,204
actually, it's the opposite spirit.

858
00:41:31,204 --> 00:41:34,534
It's no, just focus on doing
something that's gonna solve a great

859
00:41:34,544 --> 00:41:37,374
problem for people that you can
be passionate about and you'll And

860
00:41:37,654 --> 00:41:39,604
just deal with that, and face that.

861
00:41:39,604 --> 00:41:41,444
I think it was it's quite
an interesting, thing.

862
00:41:41,799 --> 00:41:44,479
Flip to the script for one
to a better expression.

863
00:41:44,729 --> 00:41:44,989
Travis Zigler: it.

864
00:41:45,199 --> 00:41:46,559
So you are out of it.

865
00:41:46,689 --> 00:41:49,769
You're out of the system
the day to day and build it.

866
00:41:49,829 --> 00:41:51,899
So it cash flows for you.

867
00:41:52,614 --> 00:41:56,224
Build it so that you love it and then it
spits out cashflow as much as possible.

868
00:41:56,604 --> 00:41:58,464
We worked with a brand for a while.

869
00:41:58,464 --> 00:42:01,394
They eventually brought their advertising
in house because they got so big,

870
00:42:01,864 --> 00:42:04,304
but we were with them when they were
doing about half a million a year.

871
00:42:04,644 --> 00:42:07,434
They're now doing close, they'll
hit like 12 to 15 million this year.

872
00:42:07,864 --> 00:42:11,344
And we just trained their in
house team and then they took it.

873
00:42:11,874 --> 00:42:13,394
And I was like, so what's
the goal with this?

874
00:42:13,404 --> 00:42:15,574
And they're just like,
we're having too much fun.

875
00:42:15,764 --> 00:42:16,714
We don't care about selling it.

876
00:42:17,144 --> 00:42:19,674
We're just trying to create so
much cashflow that it pays us all.

877
00:42:19,984 --> 00:42:23,694
And they're spitting out a ton of
EBITDA because it's a consumable.

878
00:42:23,704 --> 00:42:24,924
It has high profit margins.

879
00:42:25,184 --> 00:42:27,534
They're buying it for a
dollar, selling it for 15.

880
00:42:27,894 --> 00:42:30,324
It's just absurd what they're
doing with this brand.

881
00:42:30,324 --> 00:42:31,214
And it's so cool.

882
00:42:31,634 --> 00:42:33,654
And they don't want to sell it
because they're having so much fun.

883
00:42:33,664 --> 00:42:34,914
It's four best friends.

884
00:42:35,274 --> 00:42:38,614
They met at the beach like five
years ago and started this brand.

885
00:42:39,074 --> 00:42:42,244
And something might happen
eventually, it's spitting out

886
00:42:42,244 --> 00:42:43,384
so much cashflow, it's like.

887
00:42:43,599 --> 00:42:44,209
Why sell it?

888
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:47,219
And if it's spitting out that much
cashflow, hire yourself out of

889
00:42:47,219 --> 00:42:49,729
the position, which I think is the
scariest thing for most entrepreneurs.

890
00:42:49,729 --> 00:42:52,709
But it's something that I'm
working on hiring an operator for

891
00:42:52,709 --> 00:42:59,239
my agency because I want to get
the agency work going without me.

892
00:42:59,889 --> 00:43:02,189
So I can focus on the software
and I want to be the dancing

893
00:43:02,189 --> 00:43:03,589
monkey on stage like here.

894
00:43:04,009 --> 00:43:06,149
And I want to be the CEO

895
00:43:06,259 --> 00:43:06,919
Matt Edmundson: to see the dancing.

896
00:43:08,809 --> 00:43:11,469
Travis Zigler: and I want to be the
leader and not the day to day guy.

897
00:43:11,919 --> 00:43:12,239
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

898
00:43:12,399 --> 00:43:14,979
That's very good stuff.

899
00:43:15,079 --> 00:43:18,099
And on that bombshell, Travis, we'll
end the conversation there because.

900
00:43:18,674 --> 00:43:19,574
I'm aware of time.

901
00:43:19,574 --> 00:43:20,564
How do people reach you?

902
00:43:20,564 --> 00:43:21,514
How do they connect with you?

903
00:43:21,514 --> 00:43:24,724
How do they find out more about
Profitable Pineapple or get a cool hat

904
00:43:24,734 --> 00:43:26,094
like you're wearing if they want to?

905
00:43:26,704 --> 00:43:28,894
Travis Zigler: Cool Hat is
compliments of Amazon, so just

906
00:43:28,914 --> 00:43:31,684
type in Cool Pineapple Hat, Amazon.

907
00:43:33,224 --> 00:43:35,844
But thanks for allowing me to do
this, number one I'm on all the

908
00:43:35,844 --> 00:43:41,424
socials, except for Snapchat, but
I'm on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram,

909
00:43:41,424 --> 00:43:43,184
LinkedIn, TikTok just look up Dr.

910
00:43:43,184 --> 00:43:45,464
Travis Zigler and you should be
able to find me, I think there's

911
00:43:45,464 --> 00:43:47,704
only one channel that I'm not
that name, I think it's TikTok.

912
00:43:49,164 --> 00:43:52,534
Yeah, so you can find me there, follow
me on any socials we do have a free

913
00:43:52,534 --> 00:43:56,854
Amazon pay per click masterclass
that, absolutely free, no strings

914
00:43:56,854 --> 00:43:59,074
attached, it's at ProfitablePineapple.

915
00:43:59,104 --> 00:44:02,964
com and yeah, feel free to message me,
any of those platforms, it comes to me,

916
00:44:02,994 --> 00:44:06,774
I don't have an assistant that checks
all that stuff, so feel free to message

917
00:44:06,774 --> 00:44:10,274
me and it comes to me and then on the
masterclass, when you get the emails,

918
00:44:10,554 --> 00:44:13,434
you'll see our sequence and if you
reply back, that comes to me as well.

919
00:44:13,884 --> 00:44:14,364
Matt Edmundson: Fantastic.

920
00:44:14,374 --> 00:44:15,164
We'll check it out.

921
00:44:15,434 --> 00:44:20,954
We will of course link to all of those
Links on social media for Travis and for

922
00:44:20,954 --> 00:44:25,964
the free Amazon training on the website
as well They'll be in the show notes If

923
00:44:25,964 --> 00:44:28,864
you're listening to this on your favorite
podcast app check out the links in the

924
00:44:28,864 --> 00:44:31,914
show notes and of course if you've signed
up to the email Check out your inbox

925
00:44:31,964 --> 00:44:33,704
because they are going to be in there.

926
00:44:34,154 --> 00:44:36,194
Travis, listen, thanks,
man, for coming on the show.

927
00:44:36,234 --> 00:44:40,274
Really enjoyed talking to you and
just hearing your heart and passion

928
00:44:40,294 --> 00:44:44,334
for what you do and real interesting
journey, that you guys have gone

929
00:44:44,334 --> 00:44:50,034
on from doing the iCharity to the
business to now the agencies and

930
00:44:50,034 --> 00:44:50,894
all the things that you're doing.

931
00:44:50,894 --> 00:44:51,704
Really fascinating.

932
00:44:52,144 --> 00:44:55,044
And thanks for sharing your
insight and value with us.

933
00:44:55,044 --> 00:44:56,204
It's been fantastic.

934
00:44:56,644 --> 00:44:58,054
Travis Zigler: I appreciate
you having me on, thanks Matt.

935
00:44:58,454 --> 00:44:59,134
Matt Edmundson: No problem.

936
00:44:59,184 --> 00:44:59,944
No problem.

937
00:45:00,164 --> 00:45:00,894
Brilliant, eh?

938
00:45:01,184 --> 00:45:05,674
Also, remember to check out eCommerce
Cohort, the amazing membership

939
00:45:05,684 --> 00:45:08,664
group that enables us to bring
you things like this podcast.

940
00:45:08,934 --> 00:45:10,714
Do check them out, ecommercecohort.

941
00:45:10,774 --> 00:45:11,034
com.

942
00:45:11,384 --> 00:45:13,884
Be sure to follow the eCommerce
Podcast wherever you get your

943
00:45:13,894 --> 00:45:17,034
podcasts from because we've got yet
more great conversations lined up.

944
00:45:17,424 --> 00:45:20,654
And of course, if no one has told
you yet today, let me be the first

945
00:45:20,674 --> 00:45:23,284
person to tell you, you are awesome.

946
00:45:23,314 --> 00:45:23,824
Yes, you are.

947
00:45:23,864 --> 00:45:24,724
Created awesome.

948
00:45:24,754 --> 00:45:27,314
It's just a burden you have to bear.

949
00:45:27,324 --> 00:45:28,504
Travis has got to bear it.

950
00:45:28,824 --> 00:45:29,654
I've got to bear it.

951
00:45:30,179 --> 00:45:31,359
You've got to bear it as well.

952
00:45:31,629 --> 00:45:36,029
Now the eCommerce Podcast is
produced by the team at Aurion Media.

953
00:45:36,029 --> 00:45:39,719
You can find their entire archive of
episodes on your favorite podcast app.

954
00:45:40,519 --> 00:45:44,619
The team that makes this show possible is
the beautiful, talented, wonderful, and

955
00:45:44,619 --> 00:45:46,859
amazing Sadaf Beynon and Tanya Hutsuliak.

956
00:45:47,229 --> 00:45:49,579
Theme music was written by Josh Edmundson.

957
00:45:49,889 --> 00:45:53,269
And as I mentioned, if you'd like to
read the transcript or show notes,

958
00:45:53,269 --> 00:45:54,279
just head over to the website.

959
00:45:55,759 --> 00:45:56,179
ecommercepodcast.

960
00:45:56,229 --> 00:45:56,839
net.

961
00:45:57,199 --> 00:45:57,849
They're all there.

962
00:45:58,039 --> 00:45:58,599
They're all there.

963
00:45:58,599 --> 00:45:59,219
You know where it is.

964
00:45:59,239 --> 00:45:59,459
Go there.

965
00:46:00,159 --> 00:46:00,809
ecommercepodcast.

966
00:46:00,809 --> 00:46:00,839
net.

967
00:46:01,329 --> 00:46:03,119
So that's it from me.

968
00:46:03,139 --> 00:46:04,289
That's it from Travis.

969
00:46:04,299 --> 00:46:06,259
Thank you so much for joining us.

970
00:46:06,569 --> 00:46:08,419
Have a fantastic week
wherever you are in the world.

971
00:46:08,789 --> 00:46:09,719
I'll see you next time.

972
00:46:09,899 --> 00:46:10,419
Bye for now.