If you got a problem?

Lottie's got the answer?

She won't sugarcoat them?

Cause it's Lottie and Lottie don't lie?

Cause it's Lottie and Lottie don't lie.

Welcome.

Welcome to Lottie Don't Lie.

It's Samantha and Melissa, and we are here to share some experiences of our own before we start off with our awesome episode with Michelle and her daughter.

And I'm really excited because Sam won't tell me what her fail is.

Yeah, it's.

It's pretty good.

Yeah.

Every time.

Courtney will probably never let me live this down, so.

You already know it's good, right?

Yeah.

You know those, like, funny things of, like, what I ordered versus what I got?

Oh, yeah.

And like, somebody will order a rug and then it's like a little tiny, like 2 inch long rug because they didn't read the description.

Yeah.

So there's this beautiful, beautiful dress that's like.

And I.

I will try to remember to post photos of it.

There's this beautiful dress that, like an ad on Facebook caught my attention and I just fell in love with it.

And it's like the spaghetti strap top, like, V neck, and it's like, looks like quilted things.

Like, it looks like a rag quilt that it's made out of.

So like a bunch of random patches and I don't know, it, you know, looks miscombobulated.

Oh, yeah.

I want to see post a picture.

I definitely will.

Now.

What I got made me so sad because what I got was a freaking, like, mumu made out of like a pillowcase.

When the pixelated image of the dress that I wanted, like, ironed on to it.

No.

Yeah.

You're kidding me.

Like, there was literally a dress with a little iron on.

Patch.

Yes.

On a dress.

Like, like, it literally is the image.

So, like, you know, straps in V and then like an crappy image of like, what the dress is supposed to look like just kind of pasted onto it.

Okay.

That's hilarious.

Did you.

I'm dying.

Do you have a picture of the dress when you got it?

I.

Purdue.

Yeah, I have it before.

And you know what I thought I was getting.

And yeah, you have the after, right?

Yes, I have it.

Yeah.

Okay, good.

I guess it's good.

And then she was like, well, where'd you get it from?

And I told her what address or, you know, like, what website I got it from.

And it.

I.

I'll have to put that on so you guys don't do that too.

And she like, pulled she's so good at stalking things.

And she just real quick pulled up the website.

She goes, you realize that, like, this is common.

Like, this website is a Don't buy from.

Like, they're bad.

And I was like, oh, shit.

No, I didn't know that it was a Facebook ad.

So I thought it was, you know, good.

No, no.

Anybody can do a Facebook ad.

Yeah, there's that.

That's hilarious.

I will show you all the beautiful dress and the mumu that I got.

And the success that came out of that fail.

Learning not to just buy shit off of Facebook.

Yes.

There you go.

I just want to make sure this isn't going to happen again.

Got it.

Very sad.

You're like, I.

Yeah, you're like, I.

Also want to make sure.

I want to be sad, but I also can't help but laugh because it's hilarious.

Oh, yeah, she.

She laughed.

Good at that one.

That's funny.

What do you got?

So my fail is more of an experience that I had.

Since it's Pride Month, I'm just going to share it.

That it kind of actually made me a little mad.

But I was proud of myself, I think, for how I handled it.

Because in the past, I might have.

I don't know.

So we're in the shop and there's a lot of very.

I want to just say, like, not politically minded, conservative, but just like, like, nor, like, like conservative women.

Like, just that shop at the shop.

I don't mean politically.

I just mean as humans.

I was showing somebody this fabric that's actually children's fabric, and it has rainbows and clouds.

Clouds and sunshines on it.

And the woman said to me, it was like a straight face and said, is this for the gays?

And I was like, I got so offended.

And I looked at her and I.

I'm.

I said.

And I knew she wanted me to say no or.

And I, like, I just looked at her and pretended I didn't know what she was talking about because, like, why would you have a problem with that?

And so I just looked at her and said, oh, it can be, if that's what you want it to be.

Oh, my goodness.

I'm just like, what?

I just, like, this is a.

For one, it's a children's fabric.

And for two, what's wrong if it is?

So what if it is?

And so I just said, oh, well, is that what you'd like?

It can be if you want.

And I knew that.

What was her response?

It was, oh, my gosh, no.

And I Was like, well, I.

I said, well, I actually have a lot of people in my life that I'm very close to that do identify that way, and I don't see a problem with it.

And she was just, like, suddenly trying to backpedal, and I'm glad I made her freaking uncomfortable.

I made her very uncomfortable on purpose, and I'm proud of it because I'm so over, like, trying to play nice and pander to people because I want to make sure they shop and give me business still.

And it's like, yes, we need business, but we also need good people in the shop.

And so I know she'll come back, but I still.

Yeah.

Anyway, it was just an experience I had, and I.

It made me sad.

Thank you.

But, yeah, I think I am a little too.

Yeah, it does.

It's uncomfortable.

It is uncomfortable for you.

Yeah, that's all.

I just wanted to kind of say, I know we all handle things our own way, but this time I was.

I kind of was okay.

I.

That I.

I kind of had that uncomfortableness.

Let.

Let it just sit there and.

Yeah, so it was sad.

It's kind of a sad fail, but also, I don't know, we all have to stand up for things in our own way, I guess.

Or is it like a badass fail?

Because I'm sorry.

Like, that's not.

I hope so.

I hope so.

It's the least of the least I could do.

I feel like there's too many years that have just kind of, like, not wanted that confrontation and probably didn't stand up like I should have for people, but I'm.

I'm not anymore.

So.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it's.

It's hard, but.

And it's not saying.

I'm not saying anyone should handle things a very, like, the way I did or that it was the right way, but for me, it was, and I'm feeling good about it.

I like that.

No, that's.

Well, I'm not gonna make this about me, so never mind.

But, well.

Well, now you have to say.

Only.

If you want to.

No, I.

I appreciate that story.

I think that, you know, may come surprise, surprise that I am be.

I, you know, voiced that I am very bi now.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, to say that.

And, like, I think if someone, like, would have said that to me, like, yeah, I'm not gonna go out and buy, like.

I mean, I don't, like, showcase my pride stuff, like, all over, you know, or anywhere we go, but it's like, I would get really uncomfortable if someone was like, you know, talking bad about, like, my lifestyle choices and that.

Like, I just quiet because I'm like.

I don't know what to say.

Yeah.

Because people have a tendency to assume that you just think and behave and act the way that they do.

So, like, I have a lot of people that'll come into the shop and they just assume that.

And they'll say things like that and assume that I'm just agreeing with them.

And it's like, I don't want to be quiet anymore.

And it's gonna be.

It would be hard if.

Yeah, that makes sense, Sam.

Because it's like, wait, you're talking about me?

To me?

Yeah, Well, I try to.

I think that I probably just still would have been silent because it's so uncomfortable.

It is uncomfortable.

It was.

It was.

But we just gotta do the best we can.

That's all I can say.

Well, I love you.

And I love you.

Thank you.

And before we get into our episode with Michelle, which is one of your best friends that also works with you in the shop, I want to remind everyone of the boudoir studio, One Soul, that we've been working with and talking with a lot.

We both had such an amazing time getting to know them in and out of the studio.

And just again, to remind you, we want you to experience that, too.

And so we have a link in our bio where you guys can click and have a free consultation with them and get a special rate for your own session.

And you will love them.

Just go into the studio.

It's beautiful.

It's so welcoming.

They're welcoming.

And you'll fall in love, too, and have a great time.

Yeah.

And actually, would this be a good time to share?

Like, hey, come on out and visit us for wine and such.

We are.

We have a wine night on Thursday, Friday the 27th.

And we would love anyone.

Wait, you said Thursday.

Friday is Friday, right?

Friday.

What did I say?

Okay, it was Friday the 27th.

Oh, yeah.

You said Thursday, Friday the 27th.

And I was like, wait, to be clear, Friday the 27th, we're going to be at the One Soul Boudoir Studio having a wine and cheese night and just letting people, like, get to see the studio and kind of, like, know what it's about.

And it's not like you have to.

Oh, I'm going.

I have to.

Oh, yeah.

There's no pressure.

There's going to be not a sale.

This is hanging out like a little beautiful place with awesome people.

Yeah.

And you guys should definitely try to make it.

If you can wait.

What did you say, Sam?

I accidentally.

I don't remember what I said.

I just talk.

You guys, we're a mess.

We should probably let you get some shell.

Yeah.

So enjoy.

So we have with us today one of the.

My favorite people.

Her name is Michelle.

She actually works with me in the shop here.

This is Melissa.

But I think you guys know our voices by now, right?

Obviously.

So, anyway, she works with me in the shop.

She keeps me, as you guys have probably already know, I'm super add.

She keeps me straight.

She has been in her past.

She has had many careers.

She has been a mom, band mom extraordinaire.

She has been.

She worked at a dance school.

She worked in a bank.

She does finance.

She has so many capabilities.

But that's not even why we're here.

You do have credentials.

She does, actually.

I can even pump gas.

I worked at a gas station.

Is that still a thing?

Oh, it is.

We went to a gas station and someone came out and pumped our gas.

In New Jersey?

No, but.

But no, it was cool.

In New Jersey they don't let you pump your own gas.

Oh, yeah.

Still, that's the only state left, Right?

Well, that's nice.

Does Washington.

I don't know.

There might be.

When I was young, I want to say Washington was still doing that, but.

I don't know Jersey for sure.

That's cool.

They get offended.

It's funny.

We met one of the handy Quilter educators that came to the shop and helped us with our expo this last time, Michelle.

She's.

Lee is from New Jersey, and she was joking and being like, how would I know?

I'm from New Jersey.

I don't even know how to pump gas.

Oh, my God.

And no one would know if they didn't know.

Yeah.

How would you know?

So funny.

You just sit there in the car waiting for somebody to show up.

So funny.

She said she does that sometimes.

An accident in the beginning because she's now she travels as an educator.

And she said that, like, sometimes she gets new places and she'd forget, wait.

And now she also said she would pull in, she would get out of her car and look on which side the gas tank was on and then get back in her car.

Simon just taught me.

No, that's what Lee just learned.

Simon just taught me that.

Your car tells you what side it's on.

Yeah.

So she was telling us this really funny story and hoping we wouldn't know, but we were like, yeah.

She's like, you knew that.

I didn't.

It's Fine.

I didn't.

Okay.

She is fine.

Yes.

She's so funny, though.

She.

Okay.

Yeah.

See, if you don't know, you don't know.

Yeah, but if I would have heard someone say how, like, how would I know how to pump gas?

I'm from Jersey.

I would have been like, are they rich or something, Like, I wouldn't have known that.

You don't write gas if you don't.

Know, you don't know.

That is the common theme of this episode, I guess.

Oh, yeah.

It's gonna go right in.

It is.

I think so.

Because Michelle's gonna talk to us about not knowing some things and then finding them out.

As a parent.

As a parent, you don't know things until you know things.

Because there is no handbook that says this is how you parent and this is the right way and how you're going to survive.

It's every kid's different and how you handle each kid.

Even if you have five kids, you have to parent them differently, and they're going to throw something new at you that you haven't experienced yet.

Right.

Michelle has a story that we thought would be interesting to kind of ask questions and pick her brains on how she was able to parent that and that situation.

Because we do have a friend.

Yeah, no, you're fine.

You're fine.

You're going about it perfectly.

I was just.

I was just going to say about what you were about to say.

We actually had in a past episode.

Do you guys remember talking to Yellow in our very first season?

And she was talking about coming out in this world, and she came out to her parents and they had a really difficult time with it.

And she just had a different.

She had a totally different perspective, I think, than a lot of people who had to come out in the past to their parents.

And she was just like, you know, they're.

They love you, but they also had built in their mind, like, a life that they thought you were going to live.

And so they just have to, like, kind of get used to the new.

New.

Right.

Absolutely.

That's the perfect way that you're explaining it.

It was, I think, her.

I think if I remember correctly, her exact words were, they have to go through a morning of the life that they expected and thought you were going to have.

And, you know, you have to give them time.

And I thought.

We thought that that was interesting because you do hear like, oh, I came out and my parents weren't okay with it, and, you know, they kicked me out or whatever.

And it's like really dramatic.

And that, unfortunately, is the story that a lot of people coming out do have to go through.

But it was eye opening to hear.

You know, maybe that was my story and had to go through something along those lines.

But at the same time, I'm able to recognize that they are struggling, too.

Right.

So Michelle actually is going to share her story with us.

Hi.

Skirts up, squad.

We have someone out there.

Okay.

I am gonna say.

I think I'm like, 90.999.

Sure.

Michelle's our biggest fan.

Yes.

You, man.

I do, yes.

What's in the favorite?

I would.

Should we mention it?

But Melissa.

Well, no.

Yes.

Yes.

It wasn't me that brought her name up today.

It was me.

I'm sorry.

But I love the.

The whole idea of the baby therapists and that people who may not have a lot of money because it.

It takes money and.

And you.

It's.

It takes more than money, but it takes money to get therapy and that there is therapy out there, hopefully for everybody.

And not every therapist works because we went through that with Emily in high school, that she had this older lady, and.

And it just.

There was just no way this lady was going to be at all.

I'm so glad that you said that.

Yeah, me too.

Because you're not the only one that has said that episode because it pinpointed how even if it's a baby therapist, you can get help.

And so I kind of forget sometimes that, like, that was a really helpful episode.

It was, too.

So.

So, yeah.

Okay.

Wow.

So Emily was in therapy too, in high school.

Have you ever actually, just out of curiosity.

No, I am not.

Okay.

What was.

Can I ask what that was for?

It was actually something she said at school, and that triggered then the.

The counselor.

And so it was.

And it was funny because we.

We got forced into the therapy because I didn't know.

But then I.

I definitely advocated against the lady she didn't like because that wasn't going to work.

It wasn't going to be the thing.

And we got her somebody that she did like.

That she did like, but she was cutting and so hard.

Yeah, for sure.

All my friends.

That.

That was my friend group.

Yeah.

Once the school finds out, you kind of don't have an option.

Right.

Yeah.

But then she almost got in trouble because of all the therapy that was happening.

Then we were like, in this window of you've missed too much school.

Even though they forced the therapy, it was like this whole thing.

Yeah.

No.

Yeah.

So it's like she couldn't miss any more.

School.

It was like, it became this whole.

Oh, that's an issue to me.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because, like, they want her to be her most healthy self.

So they pretend.

Right.

They try to advocate or pretend they're advocating for her, but then as soon as she's, like, taking the steps to be healthy.

Yeah.

They're like, oh, you're missing school.

And that's probably.

What about the parent.

Because.

Yeah, because you've got.

The parent has to make sure you go to school.

You get in trouble, and then you get in trouble, so.

Oh, you're right.

You get, like, 12 days, and then it's like, if they miss anymore, then you get reported, and then.

Yeah, I thought you were saying you get 12 days of prison.

12 absences that are unexcited.

Used, I believe.

Gotcha.

But these were excused.

Like, they.

We had.

They.

We had the.

All the stuff, but still, she needed to also.

That's frustrating.

Yeah.

That was her freshman year, and then we moved to Georgia.

Baby.

Yes, you.

Yeah.

Okay, so tell us a little bit about yourself.

If you just kind of a little history and.

Okay.

We were from Ohio, and we were in Columbus, Ohio, and she was at.

She was actually, when she came out, she was in eighth grade, but she was in the high school band, so we were on a high school band trip.

Okay.

Because you could do that in Ohio.

You could.

You could do the high school classes early, which I don't think you can do that here.

What do you mean?

Like, she could.

She already was taking algebra and Spanish and band in high school, even though.

Because they were connected, the schools are kind of across the street.

Oh, got you.

So she could take.

She had some classes going into high school before she even got into.

Kind of like kids taking AP classes and going, like, college.

College.

Yeah.

But she did it in junior and high.

Yeah.

Yeah.

She's so smart, too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

She's a smart girl.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So.

So.

And I found out on a band trip.

We were in New York City on this band trip, and I get a text.

Mom, I'm gay.

And I'm at the front of the bus, and she's in the back of the bus.

Right.

And so we wait.

Did a friend, like, dare her to say it or.

Well, that's what I.

So I peek up, and I'm like, does somebody have her phone?

Like, are they.

Because she's in eighth grade with these high schoolers.

So I was like, did they take her phone?

Are they teasing her?

Because I did.

I had no clue.

Oh, was she at all?

Bullied.

At all.

And you thought that was where you went to, or you just kind of.

I just was not expecting that.

Right.

So I was like, well, maybe they've got her phone and they're just teasing her and she's the baby of the.

Okay.

On the.

There were other 8th graders that she wasn't the only one.

But not very many.

But still, you still think, well, these are high schoolers, so maybe I should look.

And no, there was totally calm back there, like they were all sleeping or whatever.

And I'm like, oh.

So I'm like, okay, okay.

They trusted you.

Yeah, totally.

Right.

And it could, though, as.

I don't know.

I guess I should ask in a minute, like, maybe what your relationship was like together if it was like really close and really, really open.

But in my mind, I could see that being.

She can't overreact right now.

We're on a bus.

Right.

We're on a bus.

This public.

She can't freak out on me.

But I think it also.

Because I was the opposite.

Where we were, I was very LGBT friendly.

High school.

Yeah.

The high school, the city.

And you've.

So I think it also.

This trip and being around these high schoolers, who several of them were also in the community, I think it just gave her the courage too.

Okay.

Or maybe the knowledge or whatever.

It helped her to.

Yeah.

Say something.

Wow.

Because at first I've.

Your.

Your first reaction is like, well, you're only in eighth grade.

Like, you're still a baby.

Do you know what you want?

Yeah, because, you know.

But I know that people know way early.

Yeah.

I mean, you know, people.

Kids in 8th grade are dating straightly.

Yeah.

Right.

And.

Yeah.

See, I didn't think of that that way.

I don't think of them.

It's so interesting because you're right.

Like now I came.

I don't know.

Were you guys pretty.

I was pretty sheltered.

I wasn't even allowed to, like, even think about dating until I was six.

Boyfriends in eighth grade.

We'd go to the mall and, you know, mom would be in one side of the mall and we get to hold hands and go perusing.

Well, she was so busy with her band and dancing and.

Well, no way.

She wasn't dancing anymore.

But it just seemed like she was so busy.

There wasn't.

There were the school dances, but then you've kind of.

If you were a chaperone, they were on a separate sides of the room sometimes.

So I just wasn't even thinking of the dating scene.

She's a Baby.

But to answer your question, Sam, I was like, I was a stay at home mom.

Although I worked, like, I worked at her preschool.

When she went to preschool, I worked at her preschool.

And when she went to elementary, I worked at her elementary.

That was my mom's dream.

She wanted to work in my school, that she could be still with me.

Yeah.

So I totally like that.

And then.

And then I was at her dance studio, so.

So I was totally, like, available to drive her around, encourage all of her things.

And.

And then in middle school, you kind of have to step back.

So I worked at the Light.

I just volunteered at the library one day a week.

And that's when I then got the bank job.

Was when she was in.

Actually was in high school.

But middle school kind of starts to wean you from your kids a little bit.

The parent, the teachers don't want the help that the.

That the elementary school teachers did.

Yeah.

They're kind of like, I got this.

Yeah.

Was the elementary school, like, was she at an age in elementary school where she started to like, mom, you're too close to me, like, go to your classroom or whatever?

She actually.

I won, it's called a gem award, which was for volunteering for the school.

I got.

I got nominated by two people, and one of them was Emily, which is flooring, because you don't know until after.

How old was she?

Fourth or fifth grade.

That's so right.

So she had to write up a page.

She didn't even do her homework, and she had to write up a paper as to why I deserved it and all this stuff.

So, yeah, that was.

But your heart just exploded.

Yeah.

So she has always appreciated all the work you put in.

It's never been like, did you go through this stage of, like, teen stage of I hate mom, I'm doing everything wrong?

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, absolutely.

High school was rough.

Oh, my God.

High school was so rough because I would, like, the demands and the.

She could come home and she'd be like, slam the door.

Go up to a room and never talk to you.

Or come and sit on the couch and talk to you.

You just never knew what you were getting, what was going to walk through that door.

And you couldn't ask.

That's true.

If my parents had tried to be like, what are we getting today?

I would have been like, yeah, now it's a door.

Yeah, exactly.

And if the door slams, you're like, well, it must have been a bad day.

But you obviously, you don't want to talk about it.

Yeah.

So you Kind of have that whole, oh, boy.

So, yeah, so I'd say I.

And then, you know, back to the, you know, I was just like, okay, cool.

You know, that's.

But you.

I was.

It made me sad as far as, like a parent, because I thought, oh, your life just got harder.

I felt like, wow, because it's hard.

Life's hard enough.

Right?

You're right.

And then if you put this element that's not always accepted and not always, you just felt like it just made.

Life harder and actually usually not accepted.

Especially, I was gonna say when I was young, but maybe, you know, Emily's still.

What?

She's 24.

6.

24.

Oh, yeah, she's 24.

No, she's.

She's 27.

She's 27.

Michelle's like, I was gonna be younger for a second.

I was.

I was enjoying it.

Oh, I see that selfishness.

Yes, please.

No, she's just 18.

What are you talking about?

She's a baby.

Because I was thinking.

I mean, when I was young, it was not accepted.

We had Matthew.

Oh, I'm so embarrassed that I forgot his last name because it should never have been forgotten, but obviously tortured and beaten for his identity in the 90s.

And I remember that happening.

And like, so I guess she's more in the 2000s, but still it's.

It's not accepted.

But any.

Anytime, any of her friends who have super religious parents, they can get kicked out.

They can get.

And it's just sad because you're.

You're trying to be who you are, and these are the people who you love and want to, you know, who are your family.

Yeah.

And now all of a sudden, you mean nothing to them.

I don't.

I don't understand that.

I could have never.

I don't either, understand.

Done that to her.

Right.

You know, so.

And that makes life even harder if you don't have your family to back and everything.

So.

So you're sad about the struggles that you already see.

Yeah.

How long did it take until you're able to, like, verbally address it with her?

Because you're trapped on a school bus.

Oh, yeah.

So did you text her right away?

Like, I wanted to know that too?

Yeah, I said.

I said, oh, cool.

Cause, you know.

Yeah.

I always.

I always say every day she's cool.

She says cool beans.

I got her a sticker that says cool beans.

Yeah.

How that is.

So, yeah, that's my.

Yeah.

And.

And then for the rest of the trip, she actually sat with me on the bus because I didn't come back as negative.

And.

And she's.

And I think she'd also texted, will you tell dad?

And I said, yeah, I'll tell Dad.

Like, you know, no big deal.

How dad now, surely.

Yes.

Yeah.

He traveled a lot, so, yes, they're close.

And he adores the Bajeebi's advert.

I've actually seen him with her.

Yeah.

Yeah, he does pretty great.

But he did travel all the time, so I wouldn't say on the same level because I was the one in the mud doing all this stuff.

And he was.

He spent at least two weeks every month in Portland, Oregon.

We would even tease, like, on a holiday, we'd say, oh, we.

Because, like, he had a second family.

And we'd say, oh, we won.

We wouldn't.

Oh, you know, but it was just weird.

So.

Yeah.

And he's from Indiana, so it's very conservative Indiana in general.

Not all Indiana people are.

But it was a thing, like, I had to tell him.

And then he, you know, of course, she was in eighth grade, like I said.

And then he's like, well, what does she know?

You know, that kind of stuff.

I'm like, well, you're gonna accept it and you're gonna, you know.

Oh, you just said, hey, this is how it is.

You're not gonna approach her.

And.

Yeah, and I was ready for that with all the family, like, even the grandparents.

And it was immediately shocking how.

Yeah.

How.

Well, they accepted.

Yeah.

Well, they accepted her.

Really?

Yeah.

Because I think.

I don't know if they knew or if you just.

Once you get.

Sometimes with.

Not with all families, but sometimes when you get that, you just are like, you know, this is my granddaughter.

I have loved her this whole time.

I'm just gonna.

Yeah.

Still love her.

And.

And they've been very accepting.

Oh, that's so beautiful.

Yeah.

And they're pretty conservative.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They're from Indiana.

If my dad, who's from Ohio.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Just because you think old school, you know, he's 20 years older than me, and you just think, you know, his life.

Hopefully life is getting better and easier and it's getting more accepted, but back in way.

Right.

It wasn't right.

So what made you feel like, this is okay?

It's fine.

Like, what made you not bat an eye?

Like, if you grew up in a conservative home, like, what would have made.

Oh, I didn't.

You did not.

Oh, no, I'm sorry.

Oh, I thought you were saying your dad was conservative.

Well, you know, he's, you know.

No, Ohio's Not Ohio's much.

Yeah.

Like I say in Columbus, it was.

It was just there.

So I had already.

I had friends that were.

Her preschool she went to, they had a lesbian.

It was a Montessori school.

And there was lesbian couple that were doing the preschool, the three to.

Or three to six age group.

So I was very much around it more.

And so, yeah, I guess I had.

I guess I had the precursor in life to be like, oh, okay, and just continue on.

Yeah, I.

I was.

My best friend when I was, like, youngest.

Like, my first friend, her.

She had two moms.

And I remember not even thinking anything of it.

Like, I was like, oh, cool.

Like, this is awesome.

And, like, never thinking anything of it.

But then one of my parents is just, you know, not a great human.

And so I would hear, like, all this negativity about it.

And as a kid, you get, like, really confused.

And I just remember thinking, like, why is it weird?

Like, there's still two parents.

You're like, I don't know.

I think I found it more weird when a, you know, a friend was like, oh, my parents got divorced, so I'm just with my dad or something.

Then I'd be like, whoa, that's weird.

But, like, to hear two moms or I have two dads or something, I was like, oh, two parents.

That makes sense.

Yeah.

So I didn't want to put, like, a negative slant on the family.

So that's not what I'm trying to do with this question.

But I do wonder, because growing up in the place and the.

Where I grew up, it was very much this idea of love the sinner, hate the sin.

And it's like, that is not acceptance.

That's not acceptance.

Right.

So I'm wondering if there was any of this.

So, like, in the.

With the family and Emily and the grandparents, how would you say it was, like, true?

Would you say it was true, true, true, deep acceptance?

Or was it more like, I accept you and I love you, I do hope that you.

I hope to come to your senses.

You know what I mean?

Right.

I would say I had a friend, actually, that I walked with every day in the mornings.

And she.

She was.

She tried to say, you know, emily needs to see our youth minister.

And I'm like, no, that's not.

That's not gonna happen.

And she's not gonna see her youth minister.

But the family, they probably were hesitant, and they probably maybe hoped that it would be.

She would be wrong.

Right.

But they never ever, like, really verbalized it or made a thing about it.

That's good.

At least they let her know.

Yeah.

And they could have known I'm pretty strong.

It's even in Indiana.

They probably.

I think they were like, wow, what are we getting?

Okay, so wait.

What you guys don't know is Michelle Is what, 4 foot 11?

Yeah.

410.

410.

Okay.

Sorry.

No, hey, give it to me.

Take the lynch.

And she is tough.

Yeah.

Like, she.

She'll.

You stand up.

Yeah.

For people.

Like, I feel like you protect me a lot of the times.

Oh, yeah.

Well, right.

Yeah.

If it's wrong, it's wrong.

I like that.

You will not.

You will not step on my friend.

She's so accepting of everything.

She gives her an extra inch and she's like, yeah, you give her an.

Extra year on her life.

Yeah.

You stand up for me.

Yeah, yeah, I do do that.

You're not taking our electric.

That's right.

We had that happen.

She does.

She tells people what's up.

And so like, I'm putting that in my phone.

Ask Michelle to help me out.

For sure.

Yeah, for sure.

And so like.

Yeah, there probably could have been an element of that.

But it's nice to know that they.

Regardless, I guess.

Yeah.

They never made her feel, like, different or that, you know, that she wasn't accepted, which was good.

Very good.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because a lot of people don't get that.

Too many people don't.

That's.

It's just sad.

So you mentioned that there was the incident where the school found out about cutting and then mandated therapy.

Is this before this text or after?

Oh, it would have been after because it was in high school.

So I think she had a.

A.

I don't know what caused it.

And I.

And I don't know, just to clarify, because this is a little confusing for me.

8th grade in the schools in Georgia, in the south is high school.

But from hearing the ages that you're talking about high school, middle school, it sounds like the grades are a little different.

Well, no, eighth grade is junior high, but you can take high school classes.

Oh, yeah.

I don't think we're broken up like that.

Right.

No, I.

I didn't get that impression.

Wait, No, I am wrong.

I'm wrong.

You're right.

Yeah.

You're right.

Okay.

Yeah, I know.

She always does that to me too.

And I'm like, damn it.

Damn it.

I was confused.

You know, Been out of school a long time.

Okay, sorry.

Yeah.

Yes.

So in eighth grade is when she texts you, and then high school is.

When the incidents when she started cutting, or at least when they found out about the cutting.

Right.

And you had not known.

No, I didn't know.

I didn't have a clue.

And then the.

The old therapist I was talking about, she was like, you need to remove all the knives in the house.

And I was like, well, that seems extreme, because.

I don't know.

It just.

It sounded wrong the way she said it.

Yeah.

Like.

And I just.

I don't know.

I just.

Yeah, you had feelings already, too.

Like, Emily doesn't like her.

That also seems a little extra.

So how did you find somebody that was.

Same therapy, same, like, practice.

Okay.

Yeah.

Oh, then that's very.

Yeah.

And I just asked for a new one.

I said, we need to try a new one.

And so we did.

I'm so proud of you.

Yeah.

Because it's really hard to advocate for yourself.

And as a teen, your parents, for sure need to be advocating for you.

Yeah.

Not.

But not always.

Do they?

Or in the right way.

Yeah, I think that.

I know.

Right way.

Yes.

Yeah.

That.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Yes.

I probably should take that back.

I do think most parents are trying to try everything that they can because they love their children.

Just sometimes it's not always what they need.

The right way.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

So the cutting is in high school.

This is after she's come out.

Did you ever learn one?

Because I was around that, like, all my friends literally were.

And actually they all got suspended.

I did not.

I was not a part of that, but they actually ended up all getting suspended for it because they were doing that and then taking, like, ibuprofen or something also at school for it.

And I don't understand the suspense.

I feel like they.

They all got suspended, and then because all their parents worked, my mom ended up having to watch all of them.

And they had to.

They had all of their school work at home, and.

And then my mom gave all of them, like, strict chores.

Like, hey, have you ever changed a shower curtain before?

And they're like, no.

She goes, good.

I have three showers.

Like, how did your mom get so lucky?

She got her own little work.

Yeah.

My friend, one of my friends is still, like, traumatized.

She goes, like, anytime she still, like, sees my mom, she goes, I'm not touching your shower.

She goes, that's fine.

That's fine.

But, yeah, but I saw how, like, their moms felt and how it was, like, in their house after all that, and you could tell that they.

That's very alarming for them.

And they all reacted differently.

And how they handled it.

One of them did remove bathroom doors.

Bedroom doors.

Whoa.

All privacy.

It was a privilege and was all removed.

So extreme.

Like, how did that feel for you?

And did you ever get kind of answers of what brought that on?

Oh, yeah.

And did you know other parents that were dealing with this?

Oh, not really other children, but it seemed like it was.

And this probably sounds really weird, but it seemed really in at the time, too.

But I don't know other parents that were, like, no other parents were talking about.

No, you're not wrong, because she's only, what, three years younger than me?

So, yeah, that's about.

Yeah, but I don't.

I don't think it had to do with being a lesbian as much as she did have a breakup.

So maybe that.

And I.

I don't know, you know, I guess I don't really know why.

Why she started cutting, you know, And I didn't understand it because, like, I'll eat chocolate all day long, but yet I don't understand.

Which is not helping your body.

Right.

But yet the whole cutting just really.

Was hard to know.

Yeah, I know what you mean.

Yeah.

You're like, yeah, I'm hurting myself in other ways.

Right.

By being unhealthy.

But I still don't understand why.

So I actually have some insight on that because I have.

Have.

I've been there.

So I'll just share this if you don't mind, but I had a miscarriage, and it was really traumatic.

And I will probably share the story at some point.

That being said, when Mother's Day rolled around the next year, and at the time my husband was traveling and I was alone, I was deeply, deeply hurting, and I.

I cut myself.

And I.

I don't know how to explain it other than to say I just wanted to lose the blood that I should have lost during childbirth.

And so, like, sometimes you just think you have to punish yourself.

Do you think it was that or that you're hurting so bad that might as well make something hurt worse?

Nope.

No, no, it was just.

I just.

I just want to bleed.

I just want to hurt all the way.

I don't know how to explain it.

I really don't.

And I wish I could, because then maybe more people could understand and have empathy for those who are doing it, because it's not like you're just wanting to.

I don't know.

It's.

It's a true therapy.

It's a true release of pain.

It's a true, like, therapeutic, weird thing.

And I'm not Endorsing it by any means because it is very unhealthy.

But it's a way to.

It's a way of release.

Kind of like yawning when you're tired, but very extreme.

But anyway, I didn't mean to take it away from Emily, but I did think that it was something kind of important.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's relevant.

Yeah.

And I don't think her being gay was it.

She seemed, like, gay and proud.

Like, she was telling everybody.

Oh, yeah.

And she.

Yeah, she was.

She was.

Just seemed so proud.

And it wasn't like, we can't go tell Grandma or we can't go tell this person.

And even when we were moving to Georgia, which was after her freshman year because my husband got transferred, we were like, now, this is the South.

You're going to this school.

You're brand new at this school.

Yeah, we were.

And we're like, just.

Just get a feel for it.

And she's like, nope.

Oh, no.

You know, like, you'll accept me or you won't.

And we're just like, oh.

You know.

Because you don't want her to get hurt.

Right?

You know?

But, yeah, and she was fine.

And it's like one of those, like, oh, you're gonna stick to your guns.

Okay, I gotta get my punching gloves on.

Be the mama bear.

Exactly.

Come.

I'm ready.

I'll get ready.

Just like, she did a report about Jimmy Carter here.

It wasn't a flattering one because he was better after than during or whatever.

Whatever you think.

But we're just like, know your audience.

Like, what are you doing?

Out of all the presidents you want to dish on do, why him?

He's from here.

You know, so, you know, you try, but they don't care.

They don't listen.

Oh, that is so funny.

So she's always been against the grain, and I don't care.

Yeah, exactly.

Oh, I love that.

Yeah.

So.

And we're close now to this day, so very close.

Yeah.

It's really cute to watch you guys.

Yeah, I actually just.

Okay, so yesterday we were.

I had a friend here at the shop, and we're recording at the shop, just so everybody knows.

But today she was flipping through our olive.

Yes.

She was flipping through all of the designs that we can quilt onto a quilt.

And she saw these crazy bananas.

She's like, that's hilarious.

Has anybody ever used that?

And I said, yes, as a matter of fact, Emily moved to la, and she called her mom and said, I have a quilting emergency.

And Michelle said, okay.

What?

But also, there's no such thing as a quilting emergency.

And she said, I bought sheets with bananas on them and I need a quilt with bananas.

Oh, she did?

Yeah.

But, yeah, it's really cute to like, you guys are very close.

Yeah.

And I love.

Which is awesome.

Yeah.

How you did say that there was the teen transition of mom can't do anything.

Right.

How did you transition out of that stage?

College.

Just distance.

Yeah.

Yeah.

She went to Middle Tennessee State.

Okay.

For sound and.

Yeah.

So college definitely helps put that distance.

I've heard people say things like, oh, yeah, it gets you ready that.

It gets you ready to.

For them to leave.

If you were still like this, you'd be like, you can't go anywhere.

I was already bad enough because I.

She wanted to go to California, which is ironic because now she is there.

Yeah.

And I gave her a little square of where she could go.

Just because.

I mean, like, it's like, no, if you have problems in California, that's a flight.

That's a.

That's two days drive.

Yeah.

I said, if you have problems in Tennessee, that's.

I can get there.

Yeah.

You know.

Yeah.

You don't have to go to school in Georgia.

But my mom was like, even South Carolina.

One of us being in South Carolina, when her here, she was like, no.

Yeah.

Right.

So, yeah, I gave her a little.

Oh, that's awesome.

And now she's in California, which she's dying to do.

Ever, ever offer all that's going to.

Feel good because that was her dream goal.

Yeah.

So in a way, can we share.

What she had credits on?

Because it's already out.

Didn't she have credits on like, the Pokemon?

Oh, poke.

Yeah, she used to work on Pokemon.

Yeah.

Dubbing.

Helping dub on Pokemon.

Oh, nice.

She's very smart and fancy out there.

I was wondering, did it happen?

Did it change anything for you, like your world views, having a daughter come out or a child?

I guess not.

Because like I say, with her preschool, the Montessori preschool, I had so many friends, Friend.

Friends that were in that community that I guess it's just when you know people and you are friends with people, you attract the same.

Yeah.

I'm so glad you said that because I think one of the biggest things that can happen in our communities is that not enough diversity.

And when you pull in more and different types of people, you're so much less likely to just say, oh, I don't like that kind of person, because that kind of person is right next to you and they're your friend.

Right.

And so, like, the more you can get a group of people that don't think like you, the more you can have empathy for them.

And I just think that is a really important thing to help the world keep going around.

Yeah.

And it makes me think that, well, I don't have children, but if I ever did, I think, yeah, I want to try to get to a very diverse, like, place and raise them where they can meet a lot of different kinds of people and just have that acceptance.

Because, like you said, that primed you, it sounds like.

Yeah, it really did.

Did you see the ugly of the world that you were expecting at first?

Oh, that's a good question.

Because that is a good question.

Right?

Because.

Yeah, that was a big worry.

Um, probably not just because.

Because of how out and proud she was.

I've seen it a little, and I've definitely seen it.

Seen it through her friends who all of a sudden are homeless or.

Oh, boy.

And I know like one.

One boy was going through it and then he got kicked out and then he.

He went back home and he said he was cured.

Aww.

Which wasn't true, but yet that he had a home then.

Oh, you know, he.

He.

Yeah, that is sad.

And then maybe once he got older, you know, he.

Hopefully he came back out and.

Or could come back out, but.

Because that was one of the.

That was like a banned person.

So I don't.

I don't know what's happened, but yeah, so I've.

I've seen it a little.

And she said, she says, you know, when her and her roommate, they.

She's lesbian too, but she wasn't.

She didn't know.

I should say.

In college, when they would be out together, people would look at them like they were unicorns and go, oh, look at the lesbian couple.

You know?

You know, so you can get that, like.

And so she goes.

Sometimes you feel like an exhibited at a zoo because, you know, actually I'm.

That's another thing.

I was kind of like hesitant to ask you to come talk because I do feel like sometimes when you.

We want to have conversations about all kinds of things, but I never want.

Yeah.

But I never want anyone to feel like, oh, I'm suddenly.

I'm not this.

They're looking at me like I'm a spokesperson for all of this.

Yeah.

And that's not at all.

This is one experience, one side of the story.

Like.

Yeah, it's not.

And we know it can go in many different ways.

And so I'm glad that you Said that because, like, it's really easy to kind of make somebody an exhibit.

Yeah.

And then act like.

No, I would.

I would love to hear.

There's someone in my in on mind that would be really interesting to hear their specific side of what it was like to come out because it's an even further back generation and it was not easy.

So different.

Yeah.

Like in the 80s, you didn't talk about it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, and the 90s was.

And you call people names about it.

But it was very dangerous.

Yeah.

I mean, they.

You weren't even allowed to get married until I was already out of high school, if I remember correctly.

Wait, what?

Like, you weren't even.

Oh, yeah.

Able to get married until I was already graduated from high school.

So it's like.

Oh, gay couples.

Yeah.

Yeah, sorry.

Okay.

And not even in every state.

So it.

It really.

I don't know if it.

It's taken a long time for it to be even something thought of or.

Accepted as much as it is.

Yeah.

But we still have a long way to go.

But it's just making me think of, like.

Oh, yeah.

There's like a hundred different ways that this could have.

You could have felt.

You could have experienced.

She could have felt like there's so many different possibilities that, like, yours is probably your perspective and how it was for you.

And your daughter is the perfect, like, ideal.

Yeah.

What you would hope and want.

Yeah.

If it were you.

For everybody.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So did she have any.

Well, no.

You said she was out and proud.

I wanted to say.

I thought that you had said before that there was people who rejected her and you had to kind of drop as friends along the way.

Oh, sure.

I mean, like I say, my friend that I walked with all the time thought she could save her by sending her to the youth minister.

It's just like.

It's not a choice.

Nobody makes the choice.

And I've had.

I do have friends who are more radical about their lgbt where if you aren't going to get it right, they're not going to talk to you anymore.

I'm.

I'm a.

Less like that.

Like pronouns.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Pronouns are a good one.

Or just even acceptance.

Like, I.

I told her, no, my friend.

I said, no, I'm not sending her to your youth minister.

But I didn't unfriend her.

Okay.

Because I, you know, I feel like people.

Sometimes you need it to be in your family to even understand that you could be accepting.

Yeah.

Sometimes you're.

You're not accepting because you've never had to.

You've never had somebody you love.

Yeah.

Say, you know, say, hey, I'm.

I'm this way or whatever.

And I think, I think people, if you, once you experience it, hopefully, I mean, obviously there are people that have their religious beliefs that do not, no matter what they.

They feel like that's a sin comes first.

It's so sad.

Yeah.

People.

And, and love should always come first, but.

Yeah, for sure.

But just now what I heard is that, you know, no one's had to be put in the situation where you have to not have to, but you should.

You want to ex.

You know, accept your.

Your family because it's family.

But that was the first time that you also encountered that too.

And you were just immediately like, oh, I got you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so.

But it wasn't.

That comes back to the whole thing of diversity.

And she had surrounded herself with different types of people in her.

Oh, that's like, that's right.

Okay.

Right.

So I think it's interesting when you're saying, let's not cut them out of our lives.

And yes, there are times when the only healthy thing to do is to cut someone out of their life.

So I am not saying last resort.

Yes.

You guys know that I'm not a black and white person.

I know there's reasons and times you do some things, but if you can, like, try to keep these people in your life and show them how love could be is what I.

That's the ideal.

Right.

We help them grow.

We hope.

Yeah.

I do think that's.

Yeah.

But it doesn't always work that way.

I know.

Yeah, that makes sense.

It's interesting.

It's.

It's very.

Life is so weird.

And it's like, you wish you could be like, yeah, these are the rules.

But there are no rules because everyone is so different.

Yeah.

And like, maybe, like we said, maybe you keep that walking partner friend in your life and let me see the love that you have for your daughter.

But then maybe you might have to the next person be like, oh, no, you're toxic.

Yeah.

But then also, you know, the other perspective is her daughter.

So what if she knows that your friend that you're close friends with spend, you know, every day or whatever with.

Yeah, that's true.

Has disdain towards her for her choices.

What does that say to your daughter if you're like, just ignore her.

It is what it is.

Yeah, we laughed about it kind, you know, because obviously I wasn't going to send her to the youth ministry.

And so we Kind of laughed about it, like, to see if you would.

Have remained friends with your friend or, you know, that close, then maybe Emily would have felt like, oh, you don't have my back.

Like, would she have felt protected?

Right.

I think she was freaking rules, though.

Right.

Right.

Because Emily.

Maybe another child would have.

Right.

Maybe another child.

I think you're right, though.

Yeah.

Yes.

I guess what we are learning is that it didn't matter to her what.

Anyone said, but it could.

Another child, it could have, you know, shut them down and been like, oh, mom doesn't have my back.

So.

But it was her best friend's mom, so I think she was just like, oh, you know, oh, please.

She.

Do she.

Oh, Sandra.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, Sandra.

Oh, classic Sandra.

Is that right?

I don't know.

We just.

We just.

We used it a fake name.

I was like, wait a second, am I cutting this?

No, it's a fake name.

It's just classic Sandra.

Oh, my God.

I literally, like, started like, oh, shit, do I have to cut this?

I got a, like, mental note.

No, it's a fake name.

I.

This, again, is the perfect example of how it could and really should go for anyone who is faced with like, yeah, this is me, and you're going to accept me.

And if you don't, then I don't.

I don't care.

Yeah, but like we said again, that's not even probably a fraction of what most people experience.

Yeah.

And I do think and believe there's also that same person who's just in a different place who could say I'm.

I am who I am, accept me, and then still get persecuted.

So there's so many different perspectives that I would love to, like, talk to.

Like, it would be challenging, but it would be interesting to also talk to someone who is super conservative and, you know, did not accept their child once this happened to try and see if we can figure out, like, what.

What is it?

Is it a childhood?

Is it really religion?

Like, what is it that makes this so interesting?

So I do have a good friend and maybe she'll talk about it at some point, but I don't want to.

Yeah, but she.

When her daughter came out, I remember her daughter crying and begging her, like, hey, if you vote politic, like, in the political thing for this person, I'm going to feel completely betrayed.

And I've never felt betrayed by you before.

And that was the thing that kind of made her think, what am I voting for?

And actually, I don't.

I wouldn't say I don't Know where she is 100% these days?

Well, I know she's not conservative, so actually yes, I do know.

But she was able to slowly kind of start looking at things and saying, what am I voting for?

And it did change her perspective.

But she didn't.

Because she didn't.

But yeah, but there are people who do abandon their children and there's conservatives who don't.

So it's very interesting.

Yeah.

Sam said.

Yeah.

I look at you and I say.

That though, because I feel like another perspective is that sometimes I do feel like when an individual like that says, you know, if you do this or don't do this, like I'm going to feel abandoned and not respected by you.

Sometimes the way I see that it comes off as bullying.

Like you will understand and see my point or we're not, not going to have a relationship.

And I have a hard time with that kind of cut and dry fair, like.

Right.

So coming from like a 14 year old who was just, and it was no ultimate, you know, I mean, and.

You'Re, you don't have to like this, you know, it could be that way.

But there's an adult though, you know.

There'S, there's adults who are like, if you don't vote this way, I will not be talking to you anymore, mom.

Because.

Right.

I will feel disrespected and I feel like that is a form, like if you had such a good relationship but then just something over a difference of a vote which I, I, I hear you.

The votes are a big deal.

Like, I get that but that sounds like bullying to me.

Like if you don't do this, I will not talk to you ever again.

And I, that's not what she said though.

Yeah, that does happen.

It does happen.

That's the only way I looked at you.

I was like, well, the other side is.

But yeah, not saying it, it's, you know, that person.

But, but it was interesting to like have her be like mom and then like, I don't understand, I don't understand how you can vote for somebody that wants to hurt me.

I think that that is really brave though of a teenager to be able to have like they had, they had.

Such a good place.

This is how I see it.

It was big of the mom too to be able to say, oh, I'll hear you out, let me look, let me think.

And I think it took, it was over a course of a few years.

Not wrong.

Right.

That is really impressive on both sides to be able to say like, have that mutual respect Of.

Okay, I will hear you out.

You're gonna hear me out.

And then being able to.

Yeah.

And I will say that I want to say this person's dad did not change.

He has changed since, I would say, just because of his own, you know, but it.

She.

She.

She had them looking at their lives and why they were voting the way they were voting, and it was just interesting.

And I'm not saying that all conservatives need to change to accept their kids.

That's not at all what I'm saying.

But it's interesting.

It comes down to respect, but there's a reason that everyone feels and believes so strongly.

Highly do.

So I guess my curiosity comes into picking everyone's brains on, like, well, where did that come from?

Like, I'm a therapist or something.

Right.

What happened to you?

It's interesting.

It really is, because it's like, we want to.

Like, if we could understand each other's motives.

Right.

Yeah.

Then maybe we wouldn't have.

And again, I.

I feel like it just all comes down to the same thing.

On this whole episode, I'm like, I found the theme, like, diversity.

Like, if we can just keep surrounding ourselves with different types of people, we can start learning motives and just understanding a little bit about why people do what they do.

Yeah.

Just seeing a bigger picture that instead of.

That's a narrow picture that you have.

Yeah.

The diversity helps you see bigger.

A bigger world.

Yeah.

And like you said, have mutual respect for each other.

Yeah.

More food for thought, per usual.

So I'll be thinking, and I'm sure we'll have more conversations on.

On this, because I.

There are more things to be curious about.

There are.

So thank you for sharing that.

Thanks for having me.

Michelle, I know you've been waiting forever to be on.

I know.

She literally has been, like, from the first episode when no one knew who we were, she would listen to everything.

People know who we are.

I couldn't wait for the episode to drop.

I couldn't wait for the episode to drop.

Like, so cute.

Come into work.

Should be like, oh, my gosh, I have opinions.

Yes, I have opinions.

I do, too.

I do, too.

I'm so.

We're so lucky.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So thank you for joining us.

Thank you for sharing some difficult and not so difficult.

It's not difficult.

She's proud of it.

Her daughter's proud of it.

This is not difficult.

Yeah.

But a.

A perspective.

Yes, we do appreciate it.

So.

All right, now we're being awkward.

Bye.

Did you like the episode that you heard today?

Great.

Share it with a friend.

And don't forget to rate and review.