**** Producer's Note: The following is a general transcript of LCC Connect's weekly radio program. Contents include but may not be limited to podcasts, program imaging, announcements, and PSAs. More detailed and accurate transcripts of the podcast episodes featured in this broadcast can be found at LCCconnect.com or by following the links provided in the show notes of this episode. ****

When we started LCC Connect in 2022, our aim was to create a podcast network that connects our college with the community and our community with the college. Since then, we've expanded to offer more than 30 podcasts, all of which are hosted by members of Lansing Community College or folks within our community. This is Dedalien. I'm the general manager for LCC Connect, and today's episode features a conversation with Eliza Robison, an adjunct professor at Lansing Community College who has been teaching sociology and anthropology for the past 13 years. Eliza is someone who thrives on classroom discussion, the kind of conversations that get students thinking, questioning, and seeing the world from new perspectives. Those conversations are also what inspired her brand new podcast, the Sociological pov. Born directly from lively, insightful discussions in her classes, the show explores current events and social issues through multiple perspectives, unpacking the cultural and social forces shaping our everyday lives. The Sociological POV makes its debut on LCC Connect February 3rd. And now let's go behind the scenes to find out what's happening behind the connection. How long you been working here? It's been about 13 years, right?

It's been at least 13 years because I started teaching a month after my first child was born and she is 14 now.

Do you find you stay excited about what you do?

Yeah, definitely, yeah.

What keeps you excited?

Planning my classes to be thought provoking and then seeing in action if they are thought provoking for students. Like the readings that I choose, the topics that we go over, the discussions we have in class are all something I think about. Like, I want them to be exciting for the students, but also something that they're like, yeah, oh, yeah. Now I get that concept.

And it's got to be great each and every time. I mean, you get this new set of students each time. I guess if I was a teacher, an instructor, a professor, I would very much look at it the way I used to look at it when I'd go to school. I mean, it was like every semester it was something completely new. And so you've got like this new group of minds to work with and talk with and teach. It's very cool. Listeners might not always know what sociology is. How does it show up in everyday life to explain it to a listener who's not familiar with sociology?

Okay. And I'm going to also explain anthropology, as they are, to me, inseparable. Sociology and anthropology are all around you. The relationships you have with people are part of a larger social structure. And the best example I can give of this is your family. So you are born into a family and you learn what role you have and the role the other people in your family have. And there are terms for this obviously, sister, brother, mother, father. And you learn the rules that go along with that, the norms. Right. And the beliefs about that. And that's all the cultural part. Right. And then you behave according to those rules and norms within the social structure that you exist in. And those vary depending on the culture that you're in. Subculture doesn't have to be just like the United States has one culture. Obviously there's many, many different cultural groups within one country. So, yeah, we're, we're constantly learning. Like I said, you start as a baby or even before that, learning things that teach you what's right, what's wrong, and how to behave based on those beliefs and how you behave in interactions with other people.

Right.

So literally everything you're doing after you wake up is culture and society influencing you.

Right.

And somewhat related to that because you're talking about the behaviors you learn in your family. I always think about when you first start to date a significant other and you go to their parents house for the very first time, you're on your best behavior. And then very often I have found that that family is completely different than I anticipated and may have a more relax, relaxed dinner atmosphere or vibe than my family, which my family is very relaxed. So it just always throws me off. You had said in there that you kind of find that sociology and anthropology are kind of the same. So what is the difference then?

Well, one is you would define it as the language, the actions. So what's normal behavior that you learn as normal behavior? The ideas, all of the things that you learn. And then the society or the social stuff is the relationships you have with other people. So in sociology you would learn more about, like, how you're connected to other people, politically, economically, what's a social network and how does that play into your life? Where in anthropology you would learn about the culture that comes with all of those things. So social networks, they've always been important who you know, Right. Always been super important. But in each culture they're different. You manipulate them differently, you access them differently, you understand them differently. So the culture is what you learn, the part of it that you learn. And to me, they're inseparable. I don't. I teach a lot of social structure ideas in anthropology classes and in sociology, I teach a lot of cultural stuff as well because I see them as kind of an inseparable package. But some people, I think Would argue that they're easily separated more than me.

You seem to really enjoy what you do. Just based on this conversation and the conversation that we've had before. When is it that you, like, in life, kind of decided, you know what? This is the path I want to follow.

Oh, my goodness. So I took an anthropology class. It was suggested by my biology teacher. I took a biology class the first semester in college at msu. So I thought I wanted to become a doctor, but when I took chemistry, it was really hard for me. And she said, take an anthropology class. So I did. And for someone like me who didn't grow up with a clear belief system provided to me, if that explains, I hope that explains it. Anthropology helped me understand the world in a way I hadn't understood. It helps me understand why people do the things that they do, why we have different ideas of right and wrong. So that was easy for me right away to say, this is something really important to me. And then, honestly, I didn't think I'd end up teaching. I wanted to do research. But then I had my first child with my husband while he wasn't my husband. And then we ended up getting married, buying a farm, all within one year. So that was a crazy year. We got married, had a baby, bought a farm. Oh, also, I got this job at LCC as, like, a let's see how this goes. And I love teaching. And so it soon became something like, well, this is something I'll do while I raise my children. It works great being an adjunct. And we'll see after this. We'll see if I end up pursuing this more full time. I also have a lot of interest in starting my own school, but education definitely is really important to me.

Like I said, you can tell that you really enjoy what you do. The passion that you have for it also comes out on the microphone. And that would be my next thing is I'm kind of curious. We kind of got an idea of what got you towards anthropology and teaching, of course. But as far as the podcast goes, was there a point where something happened where it clicked and you went, you know what? This would make a great podcast.

I think I already had an idea in my mind, like, oh, it'd be cool to start something like that, because I think students would be interested in that. I think it could be a way to keep students engaged outside the classroom. Learning is fun. You know, that old saying. And also this subject in particular is really important in the world today, and I think students have a lot of fun learning it. But in that class in particular, where it started, sometimes I get these really honest, open classes where a significant number of them want to be honest and open about life. And again, reading the Autobiography of Malcolm X, I think stirs stuff up in people. And we have just really good discussions. And at some point, either I or one of the students said something about it and a lot of them were like, yes. And it snowballed from there.

The podcast is called the Sociological POV. February 3rd, it'll debut on LCC Connect, but at this point it's not out there. So how would you describe the show itself? The podcast? Not so much the class. How would you describe the podcast to somebody who's never heard it before?

I would say it's having perspectives on a certain topic, trying to help others take those perspectives and maybe be open minded to them. I intentionally am looking for students that have different ideas than even the small group that we'll meet with. I want people to think differently, to sit down and talk with people that might think differently from themselves and so other students can hear that. So it's not just the topic necessarily that we're covering, it's the interaction that we're having at a college. And I think that's an important thing about college is. Is to promote those ideas, to see other people's viewpoints. Yes.

Yeah. There. Therein lies the POV point of view.

Yes.

So why is perspective taking so central to sociology?

You will not be a good sociologist or anthropologist if you cannot take. It's called cultural relativism. That's the term, and it's an essential tool in those fields where you take your foundational beliefs all the way to your opinions, you set them aside and you look at somebody else who's different from you or a cultural group that's different from you and see their way of living their beliefs as equally valid to yours. I always say to my students, it's not that you're wrong in anything. We all have our opinions and beliefs. I certainly do. But if I'm going to understand why people do things that are different from me, if I still have my ideas about what's right and wrong, I'm not going to fully understand them. I need to put those aside and understand from their perspective completely. I mean, you could never be full 100%, but you can do a pretty good job by working on that, I think. And so we practice that through the whole semester, not debating whether something's right or wrong. Although we do do that sometimes just for fun. But most of the time it's okay. Let's try and understand why a culture was doing this at this point in time, or why this culture is doing this now, or why those questions.

I would imagine that the conversations have to get uncomfortable from time to time. Do you tend to try to be almost a moderator and keep your own personal opinion out of that situation?

Yes, definitely.

So when somebody listens to this, what are you kind of hoping they take away from this? Do you want them to feel that little bit of that discomfort? Do you want curiosity, understanding, all of it?

Sure.

What I would want most for them to come out of it with is new thoughts in their mind, new ideas about the world, new way of thinking about things that they didn't have before. And maybe that's uncomfortable for me. It's curious for me. I feel curious about why. Why are these things happening?

Curiosity is why we learn. Right?

Yeah.

We got into a discussion about this on another podcast, and the person hadn't heard. They'd heard the term curiosity killed the cat. And I mentioned, because my grandma used to always say, and satisfaction brought him back. And I've always been like, yeah, there's some truth to that, because eventually you're going to learn something new because of the curiosity. Yeah.

Yeah.

So how do you decide what topics or events you're going to talk about on the podcast?

So I got student input at the end of last semester for the upcoming podcasts we're going to record. So those are some of the ideas. Some of them I just. I read about something in the news and I'm like, that'd be fun. Maybe I try it out in class, see the response I get, and it would be good. Something with a small group. Yeah, just stuff I think about.

Yeah. Okay. There's three different classes you teach here at lcc, is that right? Introduction to Sociology, Cultural Anthropology, and Food and Sustainability. Now, those are where you pull your students from.

Right.

So how does each of the disciplines bring. What do they bring to the conversation?

So the Intro to Soc class, you get a lot more diversity in academic backgrounds. So because it's required for so many degrees here, you get people from all over taking it. I just need this class, which is good, because in the end you get a lot of people that are like, yeah, and I actually really like talking about this stuff. So you get people that weren't going into it because they were already interested in it, but then they start getting interested in it. And then the anthropology classes, the food and sustainability one, which is actually next fall gonna be called Food Culture and Environment are people that typically take it because they're already like, oh, I wanna learn more about humans. So, I mean, I think as things have been shifting around here, we're getting a little bit more of like, I'm just taking this because I need it. But typically they come in knowing, like, you're supposed to be open minded, you're supposed to be like, these expectations are already kind of there. I think that would be the difference

between the classes where you're ending actually leads into the next question I want to ask. But before we get to that, you'd mentioned that the name change was going to be food, culture and environment. Why the name change?

Well, one would be sustainability's kind of like played out the term. And we actually have always talked about that in the class, like, why are we using this term? How is it politically leveraging people? Okay. And I think as many terms that are picked up politically or by, you know, companies that use them to sell products, they get played out. And so now I see that as kind of something that's been played out in. Students get that and they're kind of bored of it. So I think the new title is more accurate description of the foundational ideas in the class because I use this perspective called the cultural ecological perspective. It's a Marxist perspective. He's got really interesting ideas on this stuff. And I teach the students that from the get go. And so we look at everything as kind of everything in culture as a product of our relationship with the environment and the resources we have access to.

Yeah, yeah, it makes sense. So what makes anthropology and sociology classes such good spaces for discussion and debate?

Well, I think they are sciences.

Right.

They're not like the hard sciences where you can show like concrete evidence. Concrete evidence, Yep. Although, I mean, we do studies as best we can that prove that patterns exist. You don't know always if the correlation is, you know, the relationship is a causal one. But we, you know, try and control for all the variables. But I mean, that's kind of like an asterisk on science. But science is about testing what you believe to be true. Right. And so debate is an important part of that, but also providing evidence. So students, I encourage them as we go through the whole class to develop that skill. And I tell them I think this is even more important than the, you know, like, define this term or this theory because it's a skill you could will use or hopefully need to have through your life is this ability to communicate clearly. Here is why I think this. I'm open to New ideas. I'm listening to you and understanding what you're saying, and I'm in my mind going to compare and think about that with what I already understand and then I can come up with a new or revised conclusion. And it's fun to think about humans. So these classes are great to use science and the debate that comes with science, but also talk about humans and not just, I mean, that's the first thing you learn in sociology classes. You, we all have assumptions, but this isn't about just making assumptions. This is about actually looking at what we know to be true and trying to understand without your preconceived ideas influencing everything. Listen, to understand better is the key point to that.

Makes sense. Are you kind of hoping your students are going to gain that same concept when they get on the microphone for your podcast, or is there something more that you're hoping that they'll gain out of coming into a recording studio and talking on a microphone versus the classroom?

Yeah, the continue it and make it exciting. Like I mentioned before, I think, look, we can go outside of the classroom and we can continue learning with each other. Practicing cultural relativism, practicing being open minded and being comfortable with being wrong sometimes or, you know, just being like, maybe, I don't know, like students want to know answers and be right on stuff. Not just students, but everybody does. So we can practice that. And I try and choose students that are already working on that so that we can show that here.

Yeah, I would say that, you know, doing the podcast also kind of helps them to extend beyond, like you said, the classroom, but also to help them realize, look, I don't have to keep this just in the classroom. I can bring it out to public and try to gain other people's perspectives and still maintain my own position as well. Respectfully is the key there. So you've talked about some of the skills that you hope that your class gives the students as well as the podcast. In your description, you talked about things like perspective taking, listening to understand, communicating abstract ideas. Why are these skills so important in today's society?

Well, we live in a society that individualism is super important, the individual having rights, and we live in a democratic republic. So on one hand you've got this idea of the individual being able to advocate for themselves, which all those things you just mentioned, those skills I think are important in being able to advocate for themselves yourself. And I teach that in class. Like, this is why we communicate. This is why you stay on top of listening about what is expected of you, because you Want to be able to advocate for yourself at any point in your life goes way outside of the classroom.

Right, Right.

You want to be able to read thoroughly the directions. I know. Read the syllabus, you know, so that you know what rights you have. Right. What expectations you're up against. And if you don't like them, you communicate them. But not after the fact before. Right. And this is comfortable ground to do that in a community college. Right. Where the teacher is available to you and we can talk about that. But those skills go way beyond the classroom. And then the democratic republic, of course, is we have to work on this stuff together all the time. We can't let that slack. So cooperation is key. We all can have opinions and beliefs, but nothing is going to work if we just sit and force those ideas, like you're saying before the respectful conversations that we work on here. Being able to listen, to understand and cooperate, ultimately, I think is a key skill.

Right. You had mentioned the word, or you had said the word patterns earlier. When you said it, I thought, yes, patterns are patterns. And usually in a society, you're going to see it pretty much stay there all the time. But they are malleable. They can be changed. So that's key. Yeah. Is there a common assumption about society or culture that you love challenging your students with?

Yes, that one right there.

Oh, that is one. Yeah. So I often use the metaphor of the Matrix. I use the Matrix all the time. And sometimes I'll feel like Morpheus when he's like, you think that's air you're breathing? You know that feeling? So, yeah, I have a lot of fun doing that. I think my favorite one is kind of what I had mentioned before, just the beliefs with cultural relativism, the beliefs you have, instead of, like, coming into this class to unpack them and share them with everyone, it's like, let's set those aside and have a real sincere effort to understand why people are different from you. And maybe that shapes how you think about the world, and that's great. Something I repeat constantly to the students is from Hamlet, Nothing is either good or bad. Thinking makes it so. And for me, that's an important line. For me, that's helped me think about the world. But the thinking begins to develop, create your right and wrong. I think at the beginning of the semester, students are sometimes very uncomfortable with all of that, especially with, like you mentioned, there's a lot of topics that are uncomfortable to discuss, but by midway through the semester, I think they're a lot more used to it. And they're like, yeah, okay, I can understand. I don't agree with it, but I can understand it. I'm like, great, we're definitely getting somewhere.

Do you find that typically over semester, the temperament of students kind of changes? Do you see that change where they might have been a little more intolerant in the beginning, but they become more tolerant and more receptive to other people?

I think so.

Typically, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool.

Yeah.

So when you're watching news or scrolling media, is it hard for you to stay out of sociologist mode? Like, do you really examine it and go, yeah.

I mean, to the detriment of my family, I am constantly in. I mean, I tell my. I'm honest with my students. I constantly am thinking this way. It's actually difficult for me sometimes because I am so analytical about everything.

Well, you know, we're getting near the end here, and I wanted to bring up the fact that you're a dog lover. Right, Right. So what is it about dogs that sociology can't quite explain but still feels universally true.

That a simple, loving relationship is a really important part of being alive?

Yeah. I was thinking unconditional love. They excel at that.

Humans do not do that so well.

They do. That's true. That's very true.

Eliza Robinson, thanks so much for coming in. I do have one more question for you before we wrap up, but before we do that, I want to thank you for joining me in the studio and giving us an inside look at the Sociological pov. It's exciting to see the classroom conversation actually take place here at LCC Connect in this studio. I am excited about this, and I am so happy you reached out to me to start this podcast. It's called the Sociological POV. It's going to debut February 3rd on LCC Connect. You can listen at lccconnect.com or wherever you get your podcast. Now, the very last question of the day. I can't tell you what it is because I don't know myself. I'm about ready to find out. Are you ready? It's the rando question of the day. If you could have any superpower, what would it be and why?

Oh, my gosh. I don't know. I think I've thought of this before and answered. To fly.

To fly. Where would you fly off to first?

The mountains.

The mountains?

Yeah. You spent some time in Colorado, didn't you?

I lived in Montana.

Montana. Was it okay?

Yes. Yeah. And I want to just say thank you so much for being supportive of this podcast. Working with me through all of the trials of it. I but I really appreciate it and I'm happy where it's going.

I'm excited about it and I can't wait to see what we've got in store.

Yeah, thank you.

If you had to explain what you do for a living using only emojis, what three would you choose?

The faces that are like kooky, like confused, but also, you know, when I grow up kind of thing. Maybe a shrug.

This is LCC Connect Voices, Vibes Vision

Lansing Community College Performing Arts presents the Happen Dance Professional company performing live with the LCC Jazz Band. This special concert features the 20 plus member jazz band playing classic big band standards while dancers perform original choreography set to the live music. Now in its third year, the concert takes place February 20th and 21st at 7pm in the Dart Auditorium. Admission is free. For more information visit LCC.edushowinfo

Keep yourself connected with what's happening in Mid Michigan by joining us for Community Convos, a show from LCC Connect where we talk with the people who put the festive in our festivals and those that give traction to our attractions. Find out who's on the convo and listen on demand@lccconnect.org you don't usually get

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this is Amy Wagonar from the Historical Society of Michigan with a Michigan History moment. It was 1933, in the depths of the Great Depression. Americans needed hope. They needed a new hero. At WXYZ radio in Detroit, station owner George Trendall had an idea. Trendall imagined an Old west hero who fought for justice, a man of mystery who had to conceal his identity. A former Texas Ranger, Trendle and writer Francis Stryker created the Lone Ranger, the masked rider of the plains, and his Native American friend, Tonto. The Lone Ranger was the sole survivor of a group of Texas Rangers who were murdered by the villainous Butch Cavendish Gang. The show, with its theme music from the William Tell Overture, was an enormous hit. It ran for nearly 3,000 episodes from 1933 to 1954. Trendle and Stryker set the rules for the Lone Ranger episodes. The masked man always used perfect grammar, and he never drank or smoked. If forced to use his guns, he never shot to kill. He was never unmasked, and he never revealed his true name. Instead, he confirmed his identity by presenting people with a silver bullet, leaving them to wonder, who was that masked man? Voice actors for the show were from Detroit. George Steines played the Lone Ranger for the first few episodes. Station manager Bracelet Beemer succeeded him. But when he left wxyz, actor Earl Grazier took over. Grazier played the part until his death in a car accident in 1941. Brace Beamer returned to the role and continued until the series ended in 1954. Beamer was an ideal fit. Unlike the slightly chubby Grazier, Beamer was tall and handsome, an expert rider and a crack shot. He made personal appearances at rodeos, circuses and benefits. Several Native American tribes adopted him as a tribal member, and he was deputized in Texas. Tonto was played by a former Shakespearean actor named John Todd. Unlike Beamer, Todd was in his mid-60s, heavyset and balding. Station owner George Trendle wanted to replace him with a true Native American, but the college educated actor selected for the role refused to speak Tonto's scripted pidgin English lines. So John Todd stayed on for the show's entire run. The Lone Ranger was also the subject of movies, novels, children's books and a TV show. So who was that masked man? He was our ideals and our dreams, and he lives on as an immortal part of America. Popular Culture this Michigan history moment was brought to you by michiganhistorymagazine.org.

Examining the issues and topics that affect our lives from the local level to the world Stage. Listen to the programs of LCC connect anytime@lccconnect.org

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Lansing Community College Performing Arts presents the Brothers Grimm Spectaculathon by Don Zelaidis. The fairy tales of the Brothers Grimm are turned on their heads in this fast paced, rollicking ride as two narrators and several actors attempting to to combine all 209 stories, ranging from classics like Snow White and Cinderella to more obscure stories. A wild freeform comedy with lots of audience participation and madcap fun. Featured at LCC's Black Box Theater February 20 through the 22nd and February 27 and 28. Recommended for ages 11 and up. All performances are free to attend. Visit lcc Edu showinfo for showtime information. Hi, I'm Melissa Caplan and I host a show called Galaxy Forum on LCC Connect. It's all about the creativity in our classrooms and on campus here at LCC and the connections we have with the community. You can catch Galaxy Forum here on LCC Connect or listen anytime@lccconnect.org

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jtc LCC Connect, voices, vibes, Visions

it's time for Stars on Sports, a podcast

radio show dedicated to sharing stories about our athletic program at lcc. Past and present.

Lansing Community College athletics has a strong tradition.

25 national championships over 190. All Americans, 19 MCCAA all sports trophies.

Stars on Sports will introduce you to individuals that have contributed to our program success and give you the backstory on what it takes to develop it.

We'll also dive into and break down the topics and issues facing athletic departments across the nation. And right here at lcc, this is Stars on Sports.

I'll have a real good time. Hello, and welcome to another episode of Stars on Sports. I'm joined today by our assistant athletic director, Steven Cutter, and our producer, Dadalion Lowry. And gentlemen, today we're going to talk about. It's actually one of my favorite sayings because I've heard it a lot in the past and I like philosophy. So we're going to go down the philosophical road today. And yesterday I'm in a meeting with a student. She's a philosophy student here at lcc. And we were talking about different philosophers and the class she was in. And she brought up a philosopher, which, you know, that I don't know. And I can't even pronounce his name.

Epictetus.

Yeah. Thank you. And she said it. I'm not sure if that accurately said, but you know what you don't know. And I think she was trying to say that, you know, like, know who you are, know, you know, their boundaries, their limits and that. But then you come in my office today and you say you don't know what you don't know. And that's the one I have focused on and been on in the past. So that's what I want to talk about today and how that coaching staffs or freshmen or what. And you know, I laugh because how do you know what you don't know? You know, and so it's almost like philosophy. One of the things we've talked a lot about in our office and I think very important is self awareness, knowing who you are. And you know, again, listen to a podcast this week about a major league baseball player that or actually the NFL football player. And he talked about, you know, you know, my locker is next to Drew Brees in that I have money, I have a great marriage, I have a great family. But if I can't look at myself every day in the mirror and be happy with who I am, you know, it's hard to be happy. It's hard to feel like you achieved or been successful. And that's about knowing yourself. It's almost like reverse psychology here. If you don't know what you don't know. But what do you think of that? And again, Then I'm researching for this podcast. There's a positive part of that quote and a very negative part of that quote.

So, yeah, you know, I turned to my notes when you said, hey, we're going to do a podcast on what you just said. And so I typed in. And that's the beauty of, you know, keeping a journal through the, the whole journey. You end up with a lot of, a lot of words. And what I said about it at about three years ago was one of the wild, wildest parts of my journey as a coach is this. The more I learn, the more I realize how little I actually know. I used to think growth was about getting all the answers. Now I know it's about staying curious, staying open, staying teachable. That's why I never stop reading, watching, asking, listening. Because the moment I think I've got it all figured out, that's the moment I stop growing. And if I stop growing, I can't lead the people that I need to in the way that they deserve.

Well said, well said. And yeah, I mean, you mentioned that how little we do know and the growth mindset versus a fixed mindset and continuing to be better every day, but not getting caught up in the negative about, you don't know. So don't try and find out where being curious, that's one of my favorite things, Ted Lasso. My favorite quote, be curious, non judgmental. And that is true curiosity. I believe, like when I do all my leadership attributes, learning is high on my list of what I like to do. And knowledge is power, leadership is learning, living is learning. And those were like three things that I've always tried to live by. So I do try to learn. And again, we talked about this morning just books in our office talking about stoic philosophy recently and getting emails from them and such. So those have intrigued me. But what do you think, Nadalia, when you think of that quote or Greek philosophy in general?

I knew you were going to throw it this way and I know nothing about this. No, I, I guess the only thing that I can think of, and I'm trying to think of personal experiences that I've had where this applies to my life. And I do know that I've experienced the notion that somebody has told me, oh, you shouldn't be able to do that. And because I didn't know that I wasn't able to do something, I was able to accomplish it. That's the only way I can think of to apply it to my life. But I can't think of a specific scenario.

I Think that the great scenario and when you start a new job, when you talk about it like, you know, you come in with some experience, probably that's why they hired you. And it could be minimal, it could be a lot. But even within that owner organization, if you didn't work at that organization before, like here at me and lcc, I don't know what I don't know. So I do try things. I do bring in fresh eyes. I do maybe take some risks, because why can't we try it here? Until you fail or get told no. And again, calculated risk. Not, you know, one that would come back to bite you, per se. But I do believe that's big. And then, especially when you start a season or a team is, you know, there's kids on that team or even as a coach, you don't know what you don't know about that team yet because it's new. And it is a way to, I

will say, actually saying that sparked a memory of me being a bartender and somebody told me that you couldn't take on as much as I was taking on. I was like, oh, I didn't know that wasn't supposed to be a thing. So, okay, yeah.

And you don't know any differently, but

I had a lot more energy. I was a lot younger.

That helps, that does play into doing, taking those risks or doing what you want to do, and even in coaching or being a student athlete, of having confidence or motivation to try something or do something because it is important, important to think, rely on experience, but also be open to trying something. I don't want to say you don't know, because if you don't know it, how you take that risk to do it.

I think there's often a large gap between perception and reality. And I say it very often as we start our seasons and we have freshmen come in that they just know what they don't know. And the same thing for our staff. We just don't know what we don't know about them as well. And I believe that we're somewhat of a sensory system for our players and somewhat like, you know, they don't realize that when they're little kids that touching the stove is going to be hot. So they. They just don't realize it. And then as a sensory system, it's like, ooh, you know, that was hot. That's what our coaching staff is. And we start laying the boundaries and the dreams and trying to merge the perception and the reality with just stating the facts and speaking the truth and somewhat teaching them. But then there's the other side of it. It's not a knock on people when something said like you just don't know what you don't know. There's certainly some positives there too, where sometimes those belief systems can be much higher than what the ability is. And there's nothing wrong with that. You want that, you need that if you're going to be successful and a dreamer. And so there's really two sides to it, as there is with everything.

And in our field, I think freshmen are a great example. Just like I talk about new coaches or new hires. And when I hire coaches, I want to hire someone that compliments me or fit the puzzle so that it's not the same and because they will help teach me what I don't know or share what I know. But I also think it's true with freshmen. Transitions are toug. And I think from high school to college it's a tough transition. Even the out of season expectations, the time management, the good ones, probably by the end of the year, know more, figure out what they don't know and become better at it. But we've also seen, you know, we're at the end of our semester in season right now where it can impact freshmen more than the others because of not knowing where they're at and what they're getting into after a long year.

And so season, yeah, I think is you're measuring everything. You want to see growth, especially in the student athletes. And if you're not seeing growth, then there's some type of issue there and you've got to figure out, you know, what that issue is. But yes, you absolutely are going to see the growth and they're going to start learning more and more and more and keep stacking those bricks and you're going to see a much better product of just a person. I'm not talking about the play on the field, but the person.

And back to your quote that you had mentioned, because I brought up Greg Hardin before who was a sports psychologist at the University of Michigan. But there were three things that stuck with me in his book and I can't remember the title of that book right now, but control the controllables. Give 100% of yourself 100% of the time. But the one that sticks to me, that I think applies here is be the greatest expert on yourself so you can be the greatest version of yourself. And so that's true. Back to what you're saying about growing and learning, but know who you are. And again, self awareness has stay sane in an insane world. Yep. Thank you, dad Daly.

You are welcome. Great book.

And we'll talk more about that book in general.

That's a lot of perception and reality too that you're, you know, as I said, there's usually a large gap between the perception and the reality.

But I think again, it doesn't apply to you don't know what you don't know. But self awareness how in today's society it's hard because of social media or when. We'll talk about the negative part of that quote right now of overall confidence. But those that do have self awareness of themselves are stronger or can grow and emotional intelligence, self awareness is a big part of that. So that's where I was heading with that. To know yourself and know what you need to work on and then go work on it instead of thinking you know everything because that leads to the other side is the negative part of that quote is the overconfidence or not understanding what you don't know or understanding what it takes to get to that next level in reaching searches. I don't know if either one of you heard of the Dunning Kruger effect. I hadn't. Are you familiar with it? A little bit, you know, about overestimating their knowledge and then, you know, leading to, you know, failure A little bit, you know, cognitive bias. Thank you. Dedan, you're on fire today with pulling up, you know, your role today. You might not know much about the quote but you know, you're.

This is stuff I know rather than what I don't know.

But that's, you know, I think very prevalent in sport and teams is that overcome, you know, fans critiquing coaches and the critics. Yeah, the critics, yeah.

Is an enormous one. And I think to say it simply, they don't see the early mornings or the late nights. They see box scores or news station reports, you know, they see that kind of stuff and the critics just don't necessarily know what they don't know either, you know, so there's, there's definitely positive, there's negative.

Yeah. And I think the negative can hurt teams significantly because it prevents them from growing and getting better, which you talked about is important of being a good team. And they don't know any differently. It's ignorance and it's lack of self awareness or measuring their performance. It's almost accepting mediocrity a little bit. Again, back to even other sayings. I say not knowing what you don't know could be. It's a fine line of making It a positive thing or a negative thing and it can significantly determine what direction you go as a person, which then leads to what direction you go as a team. Are there other negative sides of that Dunning Kruger effect that have you seen in sports?

I mean, have you ever personally witnessed one of your athletes where, I don't know, I guess they didn't know they couldn't do something and then all of a sudden they found out and then all of a sudden they start to lose that ability.

We've seen really both sides of it seen student athletes that perform well above their abilities just because they don't realize that they shouldn't be. And then we'll also see that same athlete then go through maybe a little bit of a hard time in that belief system or whatever you want to label it gets pounded on a little bit and then all of a sudden it just sinks and then they start playing below their abilities. So it's very unique to watch. And as I've said many times, the belief systems is really what the driver is in athletics. And if you have the most successful athletes, their belief systems are extremely high in themselves and that is a driver for them to put in the early mornings, the late nights to keep growing. And the ones that struggle are the ones that their belief systems are somewhat of a roller coaster and usually below the line most of the times for them. So it, it the belief system is impactful for it doesn't matter what sport it is.

So they handle what they don't know in a positive way. Ero. And those one that don't, to your good question, it could be a hindrance in their performance and their belief system or confidence. And again, confidence is one of those fine words of being overconfident. But you know, you do need confidence in sports to, to be successful. So good question to Danielle because I think that does go back to those ones that have a strong belief system and are successful use what they don't know to their advantage.

For sure, we have, we have systems of success and that doesn't mean that everybody is going to have success out of it. And most of that is just from driven from the belief system. So when we talk about things like you don't know what you don't know and then you end up going to Ted Lasso and be curious and stuff, I mean that's super, super important. And I know from like the business world and stuff, there are plenty of large companies that will bring in people that don't necessarily know a whole lot about that business. But because there's fresh eyes. They're looking for things. Things like how driven are they, how motivated are they, you know, how impactful can they be versus how much do they know? The cross and the T's and the dotting, the I's of what we're doing here. So sometimes not knowing what you don't know, if you can have some drive and some passion behind what you're just doing for your life, can really impact the business world, too. And the same thing is said in the sporting world. Same thing.

Yeah. I think, again, interesting perspective on experience matters, as we have talked about. But the other thing we've talked about is if you're a good volleyball coach, you could be a good basketball coach because of certain things. And that, like you said, bringing other people in not because they know sports, but because of what they might bring or in perspective mainly to your organization. And I think we see more of that in sports. And then again, Ted Lasso, I mean, he. With a football coach that became a Premier League Soccer coach.

But you do know he's fictional, right?

He is. No, he's not. No, he's not. Yeah, that would be a tough sell in the real world, but point made. Point made. But, yeah, it is about, you know, having the comfortability of taking that risk of bringing in something that isn't necessarily in your comfort zone because you don't know it, or that it might not be baseball specific or basketball specific, but it could be, you know, leadership. It could be strength and conditioning specific. So, yeah, I think that's important of, again, realizing what you don't know, that. I laugh when I say that, but. Because you don't. But. But to try and compliment it or bring something in to help you with it. And again, that's where I think in coaching, your coaching staff is integral in being that system for you.

Yeah, I think growth kind of looks like that in general from a coaching perspective. And as you continue to grow, you look back on teams or players that you coached maybe one year ago, two years ago, 10 years ago, and you somewhat feel bad about it because you just didn't know what you didn't know at that point and you could have helped them more. And I know I've dealt with that somewhat on a yearly basis where I just kind of feel bad because, you know, I could have helped them here or there or something else that that could have been a little more transformational for them. And so that's kind of what growth looks like. And I think that anytime you get to a point that you feel like you know everything about a certain thing. That's, that's a pretty dangerous spot. And you're, you're probably going to end up getting humbled or getting passed from others that are working to continue growing.

And that's an interesting perspective on looking back and what you could have done per se, because you didn't know it at that time. But the first thing I think of when you think of that is the best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The next best time is now. But you think that because you have grown or you have developed, and it was neat at your first pitch dinner a year ago when Zack Sorensen, I can't remember his first name, talked about writing a letter to his younger self. And again, a lot of that is that growth in life which leads to experience, which we've talked a number of times on our podcast of how important experience is in sports. But it's because you don't know everything. I can't remember which coach, if it was John Wooden or Bear Bryant or something. When you think you know everything, that's when you start to learn and develop or some just stop. So I think back to the original premise of the quote, you don't know what you don't know. It could be a hindrance and you stay where you're at, or it could be a motivator or a belief system and, you know, trying to grow and figure out those things that you don't know. And, you know, nowadays it's easier than ever with ChatGPT or, or Google and, and that with the other thing, you know, professional development, how important that is in our lives of, of growth and, you know, lcc, you know, very supportive of professional development and you should be in any position you have. But, you know, it's nice that we have coaching clinics in year to participate in, but I just don't think people often enough think of what they don't know, you know, to address it or, you know, trying to conquer it. Anything else to add on that hopefully someone knows something now that they didn't know 20 minutes ago.

Keep growing, Keep growing. Keep stack.

That's right. Keep stacking. All right, so to our final question. You know, in our last podcast, we were talking about meals and cheese came up. So, and both of you acted like you like cheese. So cheese over chocolate. If you could only have one the rest of your life, which one would it be?

I'd have to go with cheese.

Really, I would.

I can do a lot more with cheese than I can with chocolate. I. I can tell you that. I mean, I love chocolate, but.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, pizza, more practical. Sandwiches.

Yeah, yeah.

You the same cutter.

I feel like it. You know, cheese is pretty impactful on. On most things, whether it's crackers or sandwiches or chips, you know.

So are you going to be the voice of descent?

I am going to be the voice.

You're the chocolate guy.

Really? I love chocolate, so I love cheese.

Well, good luck with that. Chocolate pizza. I'm just saying.

Good point, good point. What kind of cheese do you like? Which. Actually, now that I'm saying it, I'm going. Actually, it doesn't sound that bad. You can put chocolate on a Graham Craft or crust and, you know, but

wouldn't be too bad.

I can make a pizza out of chocolate.

What type of cheese?

Yeah, what type of cheese?

Oh, man. Well, Swiss is my least favorite out of the cheeses. Yeah, but really? Yeah, I like a Gouda. A Gouda is good. Cheddar.

Of course. Cheddar's the good.

Pepper Jack's good.

Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, I try. I'll. I'll try pretty much any kind of cheese for the most part. Provolone.

Provolone, okay.

Yeah. I think Pepper Jack's the.

Your favorite.

Probably the favorite. Yeah.

A white cheddar, as far as the favorite goes. Yeah, it's really kind of.

Yeah. See, I'm pretty simple. I mean, I get American cheese on every. Everything. You know, it's not even real cheese, dude.

Yeah, it's not even real cheese.

Probably why I like it processed, but I do. I'll try other ones. I not. I mean, there's. I mean, it's a very big business, and there's a lot of different textures and style and smells. The cheese that throw me off a little bit. That's why, you know, even the Swiss, you know, but like goat cheese.

Have you ever talked to somebody who just does not like cheese? They do not want to talk about cheese whatsoever. They're just like.

They get. They get livid. They're the European personality person. Because I've asked cheese questions before. Like with the nacho question that he didn't like cheese, and it's understandable because he did not.

Most everybody loves cheese. And so you become that person where people ask you, you don't like cheese.

Yeah, so I get it. You're right. He was uncomfortable talking about it, so.

But yeah, one of my friends. Sons did not like cheese. And. And he just got really mad at us when we started asking why he didn't like cheese.

Yeah.

It's like, just chill.

That's okay.

I get it. Okay.

But it is.

You don't have to.

It is. You don't know what you don't know, but you're Right. Right. And. But you know how much it is you used in our food, you know?

Oh, yeah.

How prevalent and how much you can just add it. It makes a change to that dish.

So as a cheese lover, I'm gonna say I. I don't know what I'd do without it. Right. Yeah. I can do without chocolate, but I.

Your meal, then?

Yeah, pretty much. Yeah.

Yeah.

How about you, Cutter? You eat. I mean, you eat pizza, so.

But bad pizza, great pizza. Yeah.

Do you put different kinds of cheese on your pizza?

I don't. Yeah, I don't make my pizzas, so my wife does, but. But for the most part, I mean, mozzarella or. Yeah, pretty much.

Okay.

The standards.

Yeah, yeah, it is. And it's good, so it's great. All right. Until next time. Go Stars. Stars on Sports is recorded live at the WLNZ studio. Engineering and production assistance are provided by Dadalion Lowry, and you can listen to the episode and other episodes of Stars on Sports on demand at LCC. To find more information about our athletic program, visit LCCstars.com thanks for listening. Be sure to join us next time for more Stars on Sports.

Go Stars.

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