Welcome to, but for Real, a variety show podcast co-hosted by two therapists

who also happened to be loud mouth.

I'm Valerie, your resident elder, millennial child free cat

lady, and I'm Emerson, your resident, chronically online Gen Z brat.

And on the show we'll serve up a new episode every other week that will take

you on a wild ride through the cultural zeitgeist, mental health and beyond.

You'll

definitely laugh and TBH sometimes maybe cry a little because this

is a silly and serious show.

Buckle up my friends,

and let's get into today's episode.

Hi guys.

We are back, we are split virtual reality once again, welcome

to these episodes are kind of

funny.

I know.

Welcome to my beautiful plain hotel room in Burbank, California.

Oh, Burbank, of course,

right.

Good times.

Wow.

Interesting episode ahead of us today.

And I kind of wanted to like have an intentional question to set us up.

So I wanna know, what is a social script around drinking or alcohol

consumption that you think you absorbed and then have unlearned?

Yes.

Oh my gosh, there are so many.

And I'll get more into sort of the unconscious, uh, learnings that we

pick up around alcohol a bit later.

But one of them for me is like.

Adding alcohol to anything makes it more quote unquote fun.

So fun.

If like, I am doing chores on a Sunday afternoon, well great.

It's more fun if I am carrying a drink around.

Right?

But of course there has to be alcohol in it.

So just like any, anything that, that I might do would be more fun

with alcohol, which, um, I think is still kind of deeply embedded.

But I have definitely at many points challenged that and

learned that that is not the case.

It's just yeah.

A, an association that was there for so long.

How about you?

That was really

one that I was holding onto as well, is the, that the fact that it has

to be fun and, or like how I thought about going out in general, that

like going out for a night out has to constitute drinking in some capacity.

Yeah.

So it's like you're having the tall boy at Bridgestone, or we're at dinner, and

so I like should have a margarita or just any of those like more special or like

novel times that you have that all of them have to include drinking in some capacity.

And so I feel like I really started making that change probably like 2021

and now it's like, yeah, I go out to a concert and I, I'm really actually

not thinking about drinking alcohol.

I'm just like, okay, did I bring my loop earplugs just in case it's too loud?

So really it's about the going out and same, the fun, the things can't

be fun unless like you're a little bit, you know, sloshed or whatever.

Right.

So true.

Mm-hmm.

Now it's time for our first segment, tea and Crumpets, where we tell you what

we can't stop talking about this week.

What are your tea and crumpets for this week though?

So, you know, I have to brag anytime I read a fiction book because it's

just not a frequent occurrence.

And this one was like, I mean, it's always hard to tell on Kindle.

I'm like, is this really 600 pages?

But I mean, allegedly it was, right?

Sure.

Yeah.

Um, so it's a longer romance book and my first book from

the Slow Burn Queen Mariana.

Okay.

And I really enjoyed it.

It was called All Roads Lead Here.

R-H-O-D-E-S is named after one of the characters.

Mm-hmm.

And I liked that it was sort of a combo of like, yes, obviously there's

the love story sort of brewing.

Slowly throughout and the classic sort of grumpy, sunshine dynamic, right?

But there was a lot more depth to the main character and just with her, her,

her creative talents, her friendships and other relationships, her grief.

So I just really enjoyed it.

Yeah.

How about you?

Nice.

Okay.

I like struggled this week again to think of something and then I was

sitting around and I was like, okay.

I think I've been trying to make some really intentional efforts to just

be delaying gratification, um, for you, which is just like, it makes me

feel Morely superior for like, the week that I'm doing it and then to be

determined if that continues in this fast-paced world with my A DHD ass.

But, um, yeah, I've just been rooting Pothos in water and I've been reading

fiction before bed and instead of just like in my phone, like, oh my God.

And, um, my little sister works at a pottery studio and so I've like done

a pottery class with her and now I'm like, oh my God, an alarm going off.

It's.

Don't forget the pots.

Don't forget.

No, I was like, baby, we already started.

Um, but yes, my little sister works at a pottery studio and

like I went and made some piece, I made like these little bowls.

We did these little bowls together and then like I had to wait and

like now I'm painting them and I have to wait for them to be fired.

So, um, especially the pottery stuff where it's like I don't feel like

I'm a super artsy or creative person or that I'm like not doing it good.

So at all of, it's just been kind of like an interesting experiment

with myself lately where um, I really just need to slow down.

I'm just like such an anxious person by nature.

Yeah.

And I don't realize how I like, feel so much of my own patterning, um,

and how it just happens, you know?

And so I'm like, can I just like let things take a little bit longer and

like feel what that's like to kind of luxuriate in that instead of this

false sense of urgency all the time.

So I think I've been sleeping way better.

Interesting how that's been kind of like a connection.

So it's been really nice.

Yeah.

Oh, I love that.

That for

you.

Yeah.

And it's like, I think I talked recently, well, I can't remember

where I talked about this, if I did it on the pod or not, but

my sort

of recent obsession with silence and that even in this book of Golden that I've been

reading about silence, like, they're like, well, there's like the literal auditory

silence, but then there's things that we can do that if, like, if you ask a bunch

of people about like, what is the time, a time in your life where you remember

feeling just like a lot of silence.

Sometimes they're not even those auditorily silent things.

They're like, well, I was in a pottery class and you know, maybe there's

noises happening and people are kind of chattering, but like whatever.

I was, you know, climbing a mountain with a friend.

Um, so, and then in my book club just the other day, uh, funny

enough, we have several therapists and we also have several potters.

Potters.

Oh, potters.

Um, one and like across the spectrum of like, one is a professional, like does

pottery and teaches pottery for a living.

And another is kind of like somewhere in between where she sells it,

but like it's not her main thing.

And then another one who was like, I only took this up with the express rule

that like I was not allowed to sell it.

So, 'cause I ref, I wanted a hobby and refuse to monetize it.

Right?

So it was just cool.

But the one Audrey who's like a professional pottery artist

and teacher, she was, we were talking about flow state, right?

Mm-hmm.

And 'cause that's an, I mean, that's really another experience of that sort of

silence and stillness that we can access.

Yep.

And she's like, yeah, I mean I'll just get into flow for like five hours a day.

And we're just like, do we all need to become full-time potters?

That's

what I was wonderful.

No, it was really awesome.

And when I did it, like, you know, like she was like, I, I was pushing down on

it and I was like doing the walls or whatever, and I was, I was like, this

feels like trance because I'm not thinking about anything other than this thing.

It's like the tunneled vision.

Yes.

And it was, I left and I was like, that was fucking fun.

Like, I like had fun and just wasn't thinking about it.

So like that's tea.

Totally.

I hear that.

Totally.

Oh, now it's time for step into my office where you get advice from your

favorite professionally qualified, personally peculiar therapist.

This listener writes in and says, hi Valon M I'm in my early twenties, so very

much Gen Z. And honestly, I barely drink.

I just don't like how it makes me feel, and I'd rather spend my

money and energy on other things.

The problem is my family doesn't get it.

My parents, boomers grew up in a culture where wine with dinner and cocktails

at every gathering are the norm.

Every holiday, they'll keep offering me drinks.

And when I say no, it turns into a whole thing.

Jokes, side comments or guilt trips, like, come on, just have one glass with us.

I feel like I'm constantly defending myself or being treated like I'm missing

out on some essential part of life.

I don't wanna start a fight or make them feel judged for drinking, but

I also don't wanna keep caving in just to make the awkwardness stop.

How do I set a boundary without making it World War III at Thanksgiving?

Not anti-alcohol.

Just over it.

Ooh, yeah.

Okay.

I relate to this a lot.

Um.

I'm British.

Hey, pub culture a lot.

Hey, pub culture was just like an inherent part of my parents weaving.

And even though we've lived here for so long now, my parents, you know,

like they both enjoy a bev, you know, and it's pretty like we're having

eggnog at Christmas and this and that and this, and a beer and whatever.

And I feel like when I kind of started to pivot my relationship

with alcohol in 2021, it was hard at first because in the same way where

it's like, oh, come on, are you sure?

Or, um, and I probably found myself getting irritated or, you know, feeling

the same kind of awkwardness where, you know, I don't want to shame, you know,

and like make anyone feel weird about it.

And also, okay, like I, I, I've expressed no, and like the consent part

around that, like, let me have my no and leave the no alone, which I feel

like inherently with alcohol, it's just like a really interesting, um.

Consent process, I think in like our culture when it's like the

being prone to push a little bit.

Yeah.

Um, but really it took, it took like a little bit of time that

it did and or just saying like, yeah, I'm, I'm just not this time.

Like, thanks, but like, I'm good.

Right.

And it, it kind of just took me saying like, no, like I'll

just like have juice instead.

Or Okay, I'll have like one glass of champagne and when you ask me

a couple more times if I wanna refill, I'm just saying no every

time until you get it a little bit.

And then now it's not awkward at all, which I know is not the case for everyone.

But, um, I mean, not being afraid to like really lead with like an

intentional boundaried phrase.

Right.

And feeling like you kind of have that off the dome to give.

Mm-hmm.

Because so much of this stuff, I think just is the kind of like reinforcement.

Around it, especially with people like our families where they'll be, you know, are

you sure prone to push a little bit more?

I don't know what's coming up for you.

Yeah, I mean, I think that there are a variety of reasons why

people might get pushier about it.

One of them is like, to give people the benefit of the doubt.

Like I think sometimes, um, people get anxious about wanting to be a good

host and wanting to make sure that everyone is having a good time, right?

Mm-hmm.

And so it's like if you could just say like, I'm great.

I've got, you know, I've got a sparkling water here, I'm all good.

Right?

Yeah.

That, uh, a lot of times them just knowing that you are doing well and you're

taking care of is really all they need.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and of course there are other times that people might push and it's because

of their own discomfort, their own like.

Almost like it helps me fe feel better about my drinking if

everyone else around me is drinking.

Right?

Yeah.

And so that's like not your problem to fix.

And so people, you know, allow people to be uncomfortable with your No.

Right.

If they are.

Mm-hmm.

And so yeah, you can say whatever, you can be as transparent or as vague as you want.

Right.

In terms of like, um, just saying like, oh, I'm not drinking tonight.

Yep.

Or I'm not drinking right now, or I don't drink.

Right.

Depending on maybe how many follow up questions you feel like answering.

So, um, yeah.

I just, I mean, I'm such a, a, a big fan of boundaries in general,

like with, with compassion, like delivered, you know, kindly.

Yeah.

But clearly.

And so I'm just like, yeah.

If someone has discomfort or follow up questions, like just be a broken record.

No, thanks.

I'm good.

No, thanks.

I'm good, right?

Yep.

However many times.

Yeah.

It's, um, always a little bit weird, but boundaried phrases,

try it out, see what it's like.

Mm-hmm.

You don't have to feel pressure, you know, if it's not for you, so.

Right.

Welcome to the Lord.

Where we share anonymous listeners submitted stories

about literally anything.

The more cringe or jaw dropping, the better.

To submit your story for a future episode, find Dets on the gram at, but

for real pod or at gaia center.co/podcast.

Th what is your lore that you wanna share with us today?

Yeah, I thought I would just share a little bit of my own

sort of journey with alcohol and kind of where I've landed today.

Um, for whatever it's worth.

'cause I feel like there are.

Um, we get a lot of stories out there of people who had sort of like the crazy

drinking history and, and then were like, and then I stopped because I had, I

felt like I quote unquote had to, right?

Mm-hmm.

And I feel like there's not a lot of representation of people with

sort of high bottom right when we talk about hitting a rock bottom.

And so.

Uh, to kind of give the brief history, I started drinking in high school and

it was one of those things where like I was a square and like a good kid.

And so the fact that I like held out for like a year or something

longer than a lot of my friends, but then when I caved, I caved hard.

Um, and sorry, mom and dad, uh, I was doing a lot of shit that

I shouldn't have been doing.

Love you.

I'm sitting live, thank God.

Um, and yeah, I mean, but I do kind of joke that I like got it out of

my system because I went to college.

Yeah.

And, you know, I, I guess went to some parties, but for the most part,

you know, alcohol was not at the center of my college experience.

And I, um, did well and got in and out in a few years.

Um, and you know, since then it's just sort of been an interesting,

like seeing the role of alcohol in.

Professional life and, and sort of the post-college, like

a real adulthood and yeah.

How normalized, uh, habitual drinking is.

And then of course mm-hmm.

Like at any social function and that a lot of social functions almost

revolve around that as sort of this central cohesive piece, right?

Yeah.

And so in addition to that, you know, I just kind of got more ingrained

in this mentality of like, well, you know, treating myself and like, oh,

well I appreciate like fine craft beer and, and like, you know, great

scotch and like that's, you know, part of my personality or whatever.

Yeah.

And I love a good cocktail, so, you know, I would have a drink, I don't

know at what point this started, but I would have a drink like, not every

night, but most nights of the week.

'cause like, oh, just winding down and, you know, treating myself and then,

you know, more with, um, social things.

And so I, while I never experienced like.

Capital C. Consequences of my drinking besides the occasional hangover.

Yeah.

I just always kind of had this like nagging discomfort, especially with

how habitual it was getting and then how sort of like, um, focused I would

get on like, oh God, like we can't go visit our friends on a Sunday afternoon

and meet their new baby if we're not.

Like, we always drink with these friends, so what are we,

I've gotta bring mim, right?

Like just almost this sort of like mm-hmm.

Obligatory thing around it.

And, um, so anyway, fast forwarding, there are two other times that I

had stopped drinking for like six or eight months and they went fine.

But both times it sort of felt like, you know, like, I'm just

gonna see how this goes and mm-hmm.

Um, see what this is like, and almost like this proving to myself that I am fine.

You know, either way.

And, and I remember even like friends making comments like, well, if you,

if you needed to prove to yourself that you were fine without it, you've

clearly already done that, right?

Almost this like implicit like permission giving of like, you're good.

You don't need to like, worry about this.

And so anyway, the, um, that was like 2019 and 2022.

And then this year it was like nothing major happened.

Uh, although I did have one pretty gnarly hangover and then it was like a

week or two later and I was just like.

You know, I had used wine to cook, and then I was like, well, better use the rest

of the bottle with, you know, and kind of felt like a little shitty the next day.

And I was like, what, what am I doing?

And like, why?

Yeah.

And does this really add value to my life?

And one of the, the factors for me of like thinking about the kind of all

or nothing like, um, of abstaining versus quote unquote moderating.

Moderating is a very interesting thing to me because, um, I think there are people

who, and, and in the, in the addiction world, they would, they would sort of

like refer to these as the normies.

There are people who can moderate with like, not really any thought

or effort into it or preoccupation.

And I would say like my, my husband is one of those people and I'm just like.

I, I don't know how your brain works like that, but mine doesn't.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Like if you were to tell me like, oh, you can have three drinks in a week, I would

be like, but when do I get to have them?

And what if I've already used them?

Yeah.

And I need, you know, like it's just ridiculous.

And, um, in fact, one of the quit lit books, um, and I will talk more about

Quit later, but that really captured that for me was this one by Belle Robertson

called Tired of Thinking About Drinking.

So it's this whole, like, how many elaborate schemes have you come up with

to try to like mitigate hangovers or try to like moderate better and all of that.

And I was just kind of like, I just sort was like, fuck it, right?

Yeah.

Like this is a neurotoxin actually no amount of it is healthy.

We'll get into that a bit more later and, you know, I just don't need it.

And if I just make the decision once and say, I just don't do this anymore.

Then it's done, right?

Mm-hmm.

And what I'll, what am I really missing?

And I think that even from my stints before I knew that there were things

that I could gain from stopping drinking.

So it's been, uh, I checked, I have a little counter app, so I checked

it earlier and it's 93 days and Okay.

You know, like obviously I, I always like have a small hesitation of like,

oh God, don't say something your future self can't cash in on, right?

Sure.

But, but when I did it this time, it really was with the mentality of just

like, let's just be done with this Right.

And not think about it again.

And I do feel mostly proud of it and really happy with that decision.

And then there are times that I do have to like, work through of like,

oh God, you know, what about the people that I always drink around and

like, what happens when I see them?

And those kind, you know, when I go to this wedding and, and things like that.

So, um, all of those things to me are figureoutable.

But yeah, that's kind of the, the gist of my journey and where I'm at now.

And part of why I thought it'd be cool for us to do this episode is like,

you don't have to have some crazy story to decide that it's not great

for you or to even decide that you don't really care to moderate anymore.

Um, but that's my story and not everyone.

So if there's anything you wanna share about your journey, I'm down.

Yeah.

Or we can just jump into the next section.

Yeah, I feel like my kind of understanding in a, in a like similar but then the

different ways where, um, I was in Greek life and so I didn't go to like a

huge SEC school where it was like Greek life in that way, but the occasional

party, um, and, or just I feel like alcohol was like reasonably centered

around my collegiate experience.

I was a commuter.

I lived 20 minutes, 15, 20 minutes away from where I went to school.

Um, and so a lot of just the, uh, me and my friends joke that like

there's a Mexican restaurant like downtown Clarksville where I ate

there, um, probably more times than I ever had a single home cooked meal.

And I lived at home all of college.

Mm-hmm.

So.

So we were just always out drinking probably like three to four

nights a week, like at the peak.

And I just like think back and I'm like, oh my God, like how was my body

just like doing all of that for one and just like the margarita sugar?

And I'm like, oh my God.

Um, just what you can achieve when you're like 19 and 20 and uhhuh, you

know what you can put your body through.

Oh my God, yes.

And really, um, I feel like I was.

I've always been one of those people when it comes to like most

substances where um, I'm not having to think much about the moderation.

Mm-hmm.

It doesn't really, um, for other people that say like addictive personalities

in quotes, I feel like I'm pretty like low on the, on the spectrum of that.

So, um, COVID hit and like, I had no social life, so that's really what

like pivoted my, like drinking because it was really all mostly social.

Um, and we just were not going out three nights a week anymore in the pandemic.

And I turned 21 during the pandemic and I was like, this is not the 21st

birthday I ever thought I was gonna have.

I thought I was gonna have like a rager and go to Nashville.

And do all this crazy shit.

And after that I was just like, yeah, I'm, I'm good.

I really kind of tried to start looking at how it was making me feel.

Um, because again, no like big consequences or anything like that,

but I feel like I would have a lot of fun when I was drinking and um, and

it would be really fun until it wasn't and I was like inevitably crying or

like having anxiety the next day and just feeling like my friends were

having to be like, bitch, don't cry.

Like, I'm like, someone's singing Happy Birthday to my

friend, and I'm like, oh my God.

Like, I was just like so emotional all the time and just like, but

not feeling regulated or grounded.

Mm-hmm.

Ever.

And then the next day I literally was just like.

What was I, you know, just the anxiety.

The anxiety was just the fucking worst.

And I was like, dude, I think this makes me kind of sad.

And if it's like more often than not pivoting that way, I don't

know if this is, this is for me in this way all the time.

And so that's really where I was like, all right, curb it.

2021 was still hard.

I feel like a lot of my friends had, you know, moved to Nashville.

Everyone's going out and I'm just like, still in Clarksville going

to grad school and just trying to like focus on school still.

And that's really where I started kind of, you know, pivoting

away from going out a ton.

And I just couldn't believe how expensive it was.

I was like, oh my God, I'd have grad school stipend, which is nothing.

I can't afford this.

So it was kind of like a lot of necessary lifestyle pivots.

And then it's really.

I gone from there.

I went on vacation a few weeks ago, and there was two nice dinners that I had, and

I had one drink at each of those dinners.

I'm like, that was it.

It's really every time I have a new medical appointment, I'm like, they're

like, when was the last time you drank?

And I'm like, I don't know.

Like mm-hmm.

And

it's, I'm not gonna be able to say clearly, like, yes, I'll have

a drink per month for whatever.

Right.

It's really just whenever.

Um, and it's usually just one drink.

That's kind of my personal limit that I found post all of this.

So yeah, not a big like capital C consequence story either.

Just like pivoting for different reasons, really.

And what makes me feel good overall is, is having clarity a lot of

the time and feeling comfortable about knowing who I was and who

I was with and what I was doing.

And yeah, it may change.

I mean, I'm open to that changing.

I'm 26 years old, you know, it's like.

Who knows what my relationship with it will be like for the rest of my life.

But this is feels Okay where I'm at right now.

Mm-hmm.

Cool.

Yeah.

And you were talking, I was thinking about this, um, podcast I was listening

to the other day on the Killjoy after party, which is one of the wrecks mm-hmm.

To check out.

Um.

But they had Mike Michalowicz on who's a, a, like a business book author, and

he was talking about how he tracks like so many goals and, and metrics in his

life, and he decided a few years ago, like in, in an effort to really prioritize

his long-term health and longevity.

He's like, well, alcohol doesn't really have a place in that.

But he, he didn't wanna be quite black and white about it.

And so he was like, I'm gonna have 20 drinks a year and I'm gonna track them.

Mm-hmm.

Like, you know, meticulously.

Yeah.

And so I was like, that's kind of an interesting strategy.

I, I feel like, you know, there was a part of me that was like, Hmm, I, I

thought I could do that without being like, obsessive about it all the time.

But then I was just kind of like, yeah, but would, would

those 20 drinks be worth like.

I don't know.

I get, I get attached to the identity piece of it and I'm just like, yeah.

And I'm a sober person now, you know?

And I'm like, well, then I couldn't, I couldn't say that if I 20 drinks in a

year, I'm not part of that community.

Right.

So there's interesting stuff there too, for sure.

Um, mm-hmm.

But yeah, I love loved hearing that and, um, man, jealous of,

of your brain working that way.

Ah, okay.

And now it's time for the DSM.

In our DSM.

All varieties of dysfunction, spiraling, and meltdowns are welcome.

In this segment, we break down complicated concepts and common misconceptions

about mental health wellbeing, and tell you what we really think

as the title station as we've been yapping about so far.

Today's all about booze baby.

It's all about alcohol, alcohol consumption in the modern world in 2025.

So.

So I wanted to kick us off with some stats 'cause you know,

mama has to crunch some numbers.

Okay.

So I pulled this very infamous Gallup poll, which studies American

Americans alcohol consumption habits.

So straight quote.

From 1997 to 2023, at least 60% of Americans reported drinking

alcohol in like any capacity.

The figure fell to 62% in 2023 and to 58% in 2024, before reaching 54% today.

So prior to the most recent poll, the rate has been under 60%,

fewer than 10 times since they initially started this poll in 1939.

Wow.

Can you even believe I'm like, that's just such a long time, right?

Um.

So even we're on quite a decrease.

Yeah.

And we're seeing that, we're seeing that across adults and we're also, I

think teen drinking has like, never been as low as it has been so far.

Right.

So quite a steady decrease.

Um, I pulled this from the CDC, alcohol is linked to about 178,000 US

deaths a year, which is approximately 488 people dying a day for alcohol

related things, which is a lot.

Um, and this also just kind of gag me.

It's the most common substance for people 12 and older.

I'm like, 12 year olds are right.

Drinking alcohol and reading those studies, um, with middle

schoolers, uh, and teenagers.

That was real interesting.

Go check those out for sure.

And then.

I wanted to just throw down some like risk rising.

The dose, like we're talking about any kind of amounts long

term are not good for anyone.

So the binge thresholds, which I think is where standard pores and we'll get to and

binge kind of thresholds is I feel like where most people get a little bit lost.

So for women afab people, it's four plus drinks or for, um, amab

or male identifying people, men.

It's, uh, it's five plus drinks in about a two hour timeframe.

So remembering the two hour timeframe, if you're kind of slamming in those

drinks multiple times a week, that's what we would consider binge drinking.

Um, and then heavy drinking would be eight drinks a week for women,

or 15 drinks a week for men.

Um, which I was like 15 drinks.

Wow.

Kind of a lot.

Uh, so that's per the National Institute of Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism.

And then I wanted to pull, um, an L-G-B-T-Q-I-A specific study as well,

just to kind of see what's happening, um, over within that community.

And so from a study that I pulled from the National Library of Medicine, all linked

in the show notes, gay and bisexual male participants in this study, aged 18 to

45 years old, demonstrated the highest prevalence rates for alcohol use disorder.

So it came in at about 55% at the age of 25, and then bisexual and.

Lesbian female participants were most likely to meet criteria for alcohol

use disorder between the ages of 45 and 55, which I thought was interesting.

So like an kind of older folks within this community.

Um mm. So yeah, kind of some

interesting stats there.

Yeah.

And I'm guessing that means that gay and bisexual male participants were higher

prevalence than heterosexual participants?

Yes.

Yeah.

Okay.

This study put it

against, yeah.

With heterosexual individuals.

Mm-hmm.

And talked highly recommend, talked about where there was, um, there was

data about, and, and I feel like for most with the L-G-B-T-Q, um, stats,

uh, talked a lot about minority stress theory and so people that are drinking

due to challenges under minority stress theory, so discrimination, et cetera.

Right,

totally.

And then also also the elements of bonding in that subculture.

Right?

Yes.

Like how much of that take place in settings where alcohol

is sort of centered, right.

Deeply.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

And then also like with the, with the women in that study, kind of

skewing to, um, having, having the biggest problem in more like middle

age, I think that also tracks with hetero women too, that there's, yes.

I was listening to a podcast just earlier where they were talking about how

like, um, highly educated, middle-aged women are like, you know, and, and that

connects to what we're about to get into, which is looking at sort of the

millennial view and like where people in sort of my phase of life or at, um,

not that, obviously not that all of us have the, the children, but Sure.

Um, we are like the.

The crux of mommy wine culture right now.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

I would say between millennials and Gen X, um, of this thing that just like took off.

Yeah.

I don't know, maybe like a decade ago that it just sort of like became this

kind of cutesy thing, this almost like point of pride and bonding between women.

Mm-hmm.

Of like, oh yeah, you know, this Stanley, you know what this Stanley is really full

of and like the shirts and just all of it.

And even like, God, I remember the first time I was like in a liquor

store and I saw Mom water, which is just one of the many Mom water.

You're right.

One of the many brands of, um, the Seltzer alcohol seltzers.

And then there's like some dad stuff too.

Of course.

Yeah.

Um, but yeah, it's just that like Rose Day, you know, brunch, like, oh, how can

we sort of normalize it, making it, uh, fine to drink at any moment of any day.

Right.

Yeah.

The surveillance piece is funny because I, I, I guess some people

would attribute lower drinking rates in young people to the fact that they're

like, everything is fucking documented.

Right, right.

People be filming me wherever you go.

Like, uh, I better be on like, reasonable behavior.

And I mean mm-hmm.

There could be truth to that.

But let me tell you, was I walking around with my disposable camera in

my purse at every party taking the most ridiculous like selfies and

oh, it was, it was getting captured, but I had a little more control over

what was getting captured, probably.

Um, yeah, that's just interesting.

And yeah, just the wine mom culture, mommy juice, all of that.

Mm-hmm.

Normalizing coping through alcohol, especially during stressful times.

And, you know, uh, you know, obviously I'm not a parent and I'm

not like criticizing someone for having maybe the, not the most, uh,

evolved ways of coping at all times.

I don't always, even if I am not drinking, my coping skills are

always not always the most evolved.

And even with not having kids, like we're all gonna have kind of those vices.

So it's not to like judge that, but just to say like, the level to which that has

gotten normalized and that, you know, really the frequency of it and the, um,

volume of it has been normalized in a way that I think is pretty frightening.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's so interesting just to, just to hear about it in that way and in the

kind of comparison and, or I guess like likeness with like what we notice or

like what you can see with Gen Z through social media or just Gen Z people.

So just this like driving of the sober curious movement.

I feel like I'm seeing that like sober curious everywhere,

like it's on Instagram.

Mm-hmm.

It's on TikTok, like there's therapy groups about it.

Like, there's just so many avenues where people are kind of becoming curious with

this, um, na, bevs and or the kind of flip side of like guard and mocktails.

So like Cali Sober is really in versus as like.

An interesting kind of means.

So using nowadays in a poppy instead of like having a vodka Koran and like

what that is offering young people that are going out or whatever.

So nowadays, what's a, nowadays it's like, nowadays it looks like it's like

a bottle of liquor, but it's, um, it's like you can pour in shots, but it

has t, h, C and like C in it, I think.

Okay, cool.

So even those like garden seltzers where like now you can go out

and there's a seltzer, but it has like some THC in it, right?

So like how people are opting for that versus alcohol I feel like is

something I'm seeing a lot within like Gen Z. And then of course, just

like espresso martinis are trendy.

Everyone loves AIE right now.

And just like those kind of drinks that are, you know, popular and the

aesthetic that comes around all of it because Gen Z is just so desperate for

identity and aesthetic all the time.

And then Borgs, have you ever seen or heard of Borgs?

No.

Okay, so enlighten me.

So the drink talk of it all.

Hashtag darty season day parties.

So borgs are called blackout rage gallons.

So think of like a big old gallon of distilled water.

You're gonna dump that out and you're gonna fill your jug with

liquor, electrolytes, caffeine.

And then you're gonna have a funny play on words where people will like,

name their borg different things or like put stickers and decorate it.

So I feel like that really blew up with like tailgate, darty kind of Greek.

Um, what's darty in day party?

Like a darty.

Oh, oh, oh my god.

So yeah, a darty, which I feel like it's like the big pre-game before you

like, go to a football game or you know, like your homecoming or like whatever.

Yeah.

So just stay drinking.

Day drinking, but of course Gen Z, we call it the jardy.

So again, identity, we love it.

So I think borgs are one kind of funny, but mostly interesting because

I feel like Gen Z kind of took borgs on as like an attempt at harm

reduction where, well, I'm not mixing beer and liquor, it's my one drink.

Mm-hmm.

I'm carrying it around.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

It's, I'm responsible for it.

There's no communal.

Jungle juice, pink panty dropper, blah, that I'm drinking out of a bathtub,

which I've totally probably fucking done.

Um, and I feel like that's just so interesting in like the post COVID vibes

where like, I'm gonna walk around with my big ass gallon also 'cause Gen Z, we just

like, can't do anything small, you know?

So like, here's this huge thing that you're carrying around getting

fucked up on all day, and it's just like, kind of the worst.

But you think because you put some liquid IV in there, the next

day you're gonna be like, okay.

Like, good morning girl.

Oh my God, you're still gonna feel like shit.

So that's the Borg.

Um, and then it kind of just the, I don't know, the, the feeling surveilled,

like you were mentioning mm-hmm.

Where everyone's posting.

Um, I went and visited a friend, uh, for her graduation, and we went to

like this college bar in Chapel Hill.

And the college students have, dig, have digital cameras.

They're taking pictures at the club.

And I was like, oh.

Oh my God, I just couldn't believe all these girlies and I was like, I

feel like we've stepped back in time.

This is interesting.

Um, but kind of just to talk about this like sober social movement, dry

January, I feel like everyone's doing dry January when it comes around.

Na brands are booming.

I think one study, I read that by 2026 maybe, I wish I would've clipped it,

but the na kind of beverage industry is gonna go to like $5 billion.

Like it's just, it's popping off.

Yeah.

Huge.

People are making so much money.

Um.

And so I wanted to throw down soft clubbing again with Gen Z.

Everyone's clean, girl, soft, gentle.

So these are activities, organizations, whoever that are Decentering,

alcohol and prioritizing wellness.

So Gen Z, we don't wanna get fucked up.

We wanna have an 85 and up sleep score.

We wanna feel good.

So people are ha like in quotations, raving at a sauna or a cold plunge.

Um, having like morning DJ sets at like a coffee bar or a cafe.

So kind of just like rebranding, like what clubbing looks like.

Mm-hmm.

Um, by doing things in the day, again, that decentering of alcohol.

And then kind of like a local thing that I thought was interesting.

Country Music star, Ashley McBride is bringing a zero proof

cocktail to her redemption bar.

That's what she's calling it, um, on Broadway in August of 2025 this

month because she's three years sober.

And she was like, I kind of want a space on Broadway to not be

completely censoring alcohol.

Yeah.

So I'm really curious if what that's gonna be like and like

if that's gonna take off or not.

Right.

And there are, calling it redemption is interesting,

you know, it's so cool.

Yeah.

There are some fully NA bars and you know, I guess it kind of depends like

where you make the cutoff because.

We know that some of these, like na beers have 0.5 and I always

joke, I'm like 20 fucking less than, than vanilla Extract has.

Like it's Right.

Um, I get, we don't want 12 year olds buying it because of just the Sure.

Like, habitual part of like a 12-year-old coming home with a six pack Right.

Doesn't feel good.

Um, but yeah, so whether you wanna call them like NA or low alcohol bars,

whatever, um, there are some, I went to one in Tokyo when we were there and

I mean, we like trekked across town to get to this place specifically.

Wow.

And it was like a full like artisanal cocktail place.

Now they were a little bit different because.

They did have the option, they called it low or non.

So if you were low, they did have some cocktails where they were at a

little bit more of the traditional stuff, but then they also had, uh,

versions of everything where you could get it totally non-alcoholic.

And there are like, what's the one in Austin?

Sands Bar?

And I was listening to a podcast with their founder and they were

talking about how like they've really had to experiment with, um, okay.

They were open like Thursday through Sunday, but then almost

everyone would come Saturday.

So it was like really rough on the people who were there on the other days.

But now that they reopened post COVID, they were like just Fridays, I think.

And so like, that's when everybody comes and the vibe is good.

Uh, I'm excited to check out.

In Nashville Grant's Garage and East Nashville, they have, uh, Tuesdays

is their NA night, so they have like more sort of specialty na drinks and

that's all they serve on Tuesday night.

So these things are like really popping off and it's really exciting.

Um, so yeah, I read that about that Ashley McBride bar and I'm like, uh, I

normally am not a Broadway girly, but you better believe I'll be checking it out.

Yeah.

Okay.

So we wanted to talk about sort of the, uh, signs alcohol might be a problem.

And um, I was listening to one of my favorite, uh, like sort of sober

oriented podcasts ear, uh, earlier called Hello Someday, um, from Casey McGuire.

And she and the guests were talking about like, yeah, so like,

did you start Google at night?

Like, am I an alcoholic?

And I think for a lot of people like.

You might be curious about that, or you might even be curious

like, do I drink too much?

Right?

Sure.

And so then the problem is like, sure, there are those.

Cutoffs because medical establishments, you know, whatever they may be, the, a

cutoff has to be made somewhere in terms of what's considered sort of like low,

moderate, high, um, or excessive drinking.

So there, you know, there are, you, you can find those sort of like quizzes and

things that will, uh, like the audit, which we can link in the show notes.

Yes.

Um, but I would just say that it's, it's rarely as simple as yes or no.

And they made that point too of like, well, I answered some things.

Yes, like.

You know, I drink alone sometimes, but then it was, no, I don't

drink like in the morning, right?

So yeah, so the answer was like, well, you may or may not

have a problem with alcohol.

Well, that's not super helpful, right?

Because we really do have this false dichotomy in our culture of like,

either you're an addict slash alcoholic and you're drinking at 9:00 AM and

you've gotten 2D two DUIs and lost your job, and almost lost your spouse,

and like you're just off the rails.

Or if you're not that, then like whatever you're doing

with alcohol is probably fine.

And just keep doing it.

Right.

Right.

And that's like so harmful.

Even the way that the DSM being as flawed as it is, um, yes, has

changed the way that it diagnosis.

'cause it used to be there was sort of a distinction between substance dependence

disorder and substance abuse abuse.

Um, and so now it's just all under this SUD substance use disorder.

And of course I think, you know, there's modifiers for everything.

So you can say like how severe it is based on the level of, of symptoms

and, um, distress and all of that.

But still it is the fact that it is on a spectrum and not like a binary of

you're either dependent or you're not.

Yeah.

Um, I always liked the quote.

It's not that every time you drink, you get into trouble.

It's that every time you get into trouble, you've been drinking.

Hmm.

Right.

And I've had that be, I mean, I don't know if it's super true for me personally.

I mean, there are definitely times where I was like, wow, that was pretty stupid.

I shouldn't have, you know, I wouldn't have done that had I not been drinking.

Yeah.

But I definitely have seen that with some people that I've encountered.

Some clients where like, yeah, they, whatever shitty thing that

they did, they would not have done had they not been drinking.

Right.

Right.

Um.

So looking at sort of like a light exploration of, okay, is this problematic?

You're looking at things like, did you drink more than you intended to, right?

Mm-hmm.

Of like, often we do go into a situation like, oh, I'm just gonna have one or two.

Are you having four or five?

Right?

Yeah.

Do those intentions go out the window once your prefrontal cortex goes offline?

Because guess what?

That happens when you get enough alcohol in your system and you don't get to

control when that happens for you, right?

Mm-hmm.

Um, are you spending a lot of time either drinking or recovering?

Um, so like you mentioned the anxiety and it's like the, if you're combining

the already Sunday scaries with anxiety, like that just sucks, right?

I mean, yeah.

I, even though I wouldn't get frequent hangovers.

When I would get them, it's like sometimes your whole day you're just

like, you feel sick all day until you have like another full night of sleep.

So it's like, kind of feels like you're wasting your day and that sucks.

Mm-hmm.

Um, if you're having cravings, of course that can be indicative, but you know,

again, like just because you're not having cravings doesn't mean that you don't need

to examine your relationship with alcohol.

Um, of course if it is causing issues with, you know, major areas of your

life, like work, school, family, relationships, um, and if you know that

it makes whatever other like mental health or physical health thing worse,

but you continue doing it anyway, right?

Yeah.

So basically if it's taking more than it's giving, then like probably time

to do a check-in point doesn't mean necessarily that you have to like

do the, you know, all or nothing.

Um, of never again.

But it's probably a time to like examine it and look at your relationship with it.

Um, and so there's ways of practicing, like you mentioned earlier with

like the idea of harm reduction.

By the way, sidebar, the borgs, I was like, oh, I was an early Borg because

my like drink of choice my senior year of high school was I would take

these like, uh, one leader of like clearly Canadian sparkling waters

and I would just like pour out the top and pour and hover much vodka.

And I was like, this is my drink for the night.

And it's like low on calories.

And I was like, look at me.

I'm the epitome of health.

Not so much.

Um, anyway, so, so looking at, you know, harm reduction, which basically

just means like, yeah, if you're not someone who's like, I want to stop

doing this entirely, there might be ways that you can mitigate some of

the potential harm or consequences.

Um, you mentioned the sober curious movement and like,

shout out Ruby Warrington.

It's not like she did all that single-handedly, but she played

a major role with her book Sober.

Curious on like blowing that up.

Um, in fact, even like, I think it was the guy, the Sands Bar

owner talking about how like.

When they initially started, they were kind of, they were

before that all happened.

So it was just like, not take, or maybe it was like other bar owners that he was

talking about who like weren't successful, but he got lucky because he kind of

came on the tail of that whole thing.

So.

Hmm.

Um, California sober, of course you mentioned some people, like for myself,

if I think about the label, that feels good because, you know, you don't need

to ever have a label for anything.

You can just simply say, I'm not drinking tonight.

Right.

But some people, you know, are interested in like, what label should I use?

And for instance, since I am not someone who's like working a 12 step

program, I'm sure there'd be some people who, who would say like, well,

you shouldn't say you're sober, right?

Sure.

Um, but then there's people who are like, well, I, I'll you say sober if I want to.

Right.

It's, it's mild drive.

Yeah.

So I, I, I sort of use that word a little bit, but I, I also like the word.

Alcohol free.

Um mm-hmm.

Just like living an alcohol free lifestyle.

Some people, of course, who are working a program will say that they're in recovery.

Recovery.

Um, so, you know, you decide what makes sense for you.

So we're curious, alcohol free, whatever.

Um, another thing that I wanted to talk about in terms of the harm

reduction, like, and, and this is just sort of a caveat, is like, I

do feel like it's important to say that while it's not like, like not

everyone is gonna stop drinking, right?

Even though it's becoming less of a thing in our culture, um, it's, it's

still going to be around forever.

And, and plenty of people can live a long, healthy life and

continue to have some alcohol and moderation if they choose to do that.

Um, mm-hmm.

Again, we, we all take calculated risks throughout our life.

Like anytime you get in a car, you're taking a calculated risk.

So some people will just take that calculated risk with, you know, drinking

a glass of wine every now and then, but we need to get rid of this myth

that like, oh yeah, like a glass of wine like a few times a week or every

day, like, is actually healthy for you.

Healthy because that was what they were saying 10 or 20 years ago.

And it has been proven unequivocally false.

That that's from a scientific, biological perspective, this is a neurotoxin,

no amount of it is good for you.

Um, and so, you know, understand that it is a calculated risk and that

that's, I don't say that with judgment 'cause obviously I've done it for

most of my adulthood and then some.

Sure.

But, um, just understanding that that is not true.

It's not healthy for you.

Uh, you mentioned earlier like.

Knowing what a standard drink actually is.

So if it is something that you're wanting to be mindful of or maybe

track your use around or, um, moderate your use around, like, look at this

Love to know link in the show notes.

Um, because sometimes our sense of like what a one serving

is might be very off, right?

Mm-hmm.

Especially these big ass wine glasses and tumblers that we have now.

Um, I also love the apps Sunnyside and Reframe.

They sort of both have different strengths so you can, you know,

do free trials of both of them.

And what I, part of what I love about them is neither one

assumes that you have the goal.

Of not drinking entirely.

You might have that goal and you can tell it that.

Or if you have the goal of mindful drinking or limiting yourself to

like, say a certain amount per week, then you can use it in support

of that and tracking that goal.

Um, and, you know, set, set your expectations with yourself.

Like make sure that if you're going to drink that you have

enough food in your system.

Maybe you alternate an alcoholic drink with an NA drink or with a glass of water.

Right.

Understand what your own personal limit is and pay attention to the data of,

like, again, if you're like, oh, I set my limit of, I'm only gonna have two drinks,

but most times it ends up being four.

Yeah.

Then that might be like a sign of maybe.

Maybe it is worth looking at the idea of abstaining entirely.

And would that be a better fit for you?

Um, look at your environment, like, you know, if maybe you wanna keep drinking

socially, but you wanna not drink at all at home and you just have a stash

of na beers at home, um, swapping the rituals is so important for some people.

Yeah.

Like some people can just be like, oh, I just cut it out and I, I

don't have to have an alternate ritual and like, good for them.

Yeah.

But for me, like even what you mentioned live, like, you know, going

out to a concert, even though I'm trying to break that association of,

I, I don't have to have alcohol to be doing a fun thing and make it fun.

Mm-hmm.

I still, I'm in that phase where like.

I don't wanna feel like I'm deprived and then like pouting and white knuckling.

Yeah.

And really, really helps me to have a great na drink so that

I don't have that feeling.

Because if I go to Bridgestone and I get an athletic beer, I'm like, I'm great.

Right?

Yep.

If I just get a water, I'm like, eh.

So, so, you know, if it helps you, uh, you know, check out all of the many

delicious non-alcoholic cocktails.

Beer aifs.

Yeah.

Um, what I love about the Bitter kind of Aifs, um, Pathfinder is a fabulous one,

is they have what they call speed bumps.

So, you know, if you're drinking like a sweet cocktail or something,

or like a, just a juice, you could just down it, right?

Like, I always say that there are certain drinks.

I'm like, oh, this is really good.

But like.

I unfortunately, I'm gonna finish it in five minutes, right?

Literally.

So, yeah, so these drinks that, that have that kind of bitterness,

they sort of slow you down and I really appreciate that in a drink.

And they do have that with na stuff.

Uh, not the NA wine.

You will not find any speed bumps in NA wine, but, um, a lot of the like kind of

spirits have that tea ceremonies, right?

Use a bougie glass or do like a special kind of ritual with

your magnesium, um, sleepy girl mocktail in the evening, right?

It's the ritual that your nervous system is craving the most and not the,

like ethanol in the alcoholic drink.

And I can really say that, allowing myself to just be like, you know

what, yeah, I'm not saving money.

I'm still having an athletic beer like every night, but my

body is feeling better, right?

Yes.

Um, and then, you know, regulate yourself.

Again, this is all like nervous system shit.

So you might need to learn how to do some urge surfing.

Like if that urge comes up, that's okay.

You, you can be with that and notice what it's like.

Usually when you are mindful with an urge, it'll pass within a few minutes.

Um, and then sometimes there might be other things that you can do to kind

of cold water, splash your face, do some breathing exercises or grounding.

And then I wanted to share, uh, if you're looking for more on this topic,

I mentioned Hello Someday podcast, the Killjoy, which is, oh my God, this amazing

non-alcoholic bottle shop in Nashville.

Um, and they're incredible.

Can't recommend it enough.

So they have the Killjoy After Party podcast, creative Sobriety.

This Naked Mind podcast is great.

Um, and quit lit books, which I love that term quit lit, right, of like mm-hmm.

Again, it doesn't have to mean you wanna quit entirely, but that's sort of like the

catchy phrase that has come up with Yeah.

So This Naked Mind, the podcast, um.

Annie Grace also wrote a book called This Naked Mind, which is kind of weird.

Like what does fuck does that mean and what does it have to do with alcohol?

Right?

But it really refers to how powerful these associations and beliefs that

we, we sort of create with alcohol and how it's really the belief that's

the issue and not the alcohol itself.

So in the book.

With this Naked mind refers to like, let's speak to directly to, to the subconscious

mind that has formed these beliefs.

Yeah.

So she kind of goes back and forth of speaking to the

conscious mind and speaking to the subconscious, quote unquote naked

mind, which is really awesome.

I also love Quit like a woman by Holly Whitaker, tired

of thinking about drinking.

And then, uh, the unex unexpected joy of being Sober by Catherine Gray.

They're all fabulous, especially, um, that last one and her follow

up book, uh, called Sunshine Warm Sober as opposed to Stone Cold Sober.

Who wants to be that right?

Ah, she gets a lot into that second book about like big alcohol and

like, if you wanna get pissed off at big alcohol, read, read her books.

Hmm,

love.

Okay.

And, but for real, you get to experiment with what does and doesn't feel good when

it comes to your relationship to alcohol.

Know your standard poor.

I really still don't know my standard poor.

So, um, but try the na swap or add one regulation tool,

harness harm reduction skills.

Talk to your friends about it.

You know, include people if you're curious, see what other

people are thinking about.

All about helping you mindfully consume if you choose to and what

that means and what that looks like.

And if alcohol just is not your vibe or was isn't something within your

value system or anything like that, then that is perfectly fine too.

Hell yes.

Okay.

Mm.

And now our musical segment.

Now, that's what I call where Emerson and I each share a song with each

other each week as representatives of our respective generations.

We tell you a little bit about the song or artist and then we press pause, we

share the song with each other, and then we come back for our live reaction

and we're capturing it all on a Spotify playlist link in the show notes for you.

And this time is booze edition baby.

So what is your song?

Drink?

Wink of choice this week?

Oh my God.

Well, there were several that came to mind.

Not necessarily all from my generation.

I mean the title that you made.

This, of course my brain is like, blame It on

Ha.

Like it permanently seared into my brain.

Um, also, I just like, not of my generation, but I

have to give a shout out to.

Um, tipsy by Sha Boozy, like Holy shit, just an iconic song.

I just love that song.

But the one that I chose technically is a newer song from, uh, five years

ago, but the artist is very much the millennial Quane Alanis Morissette.

Um, so this is from her 2020 album.

Such Pretty Forks in the Road, which is one of my top

albums of the last five years.

It was phenomenal.

Um, I found this quote from an, uh, an article that she wrote before that

where she was talking about her, her vices, and she says, for me, alcohol

served as a brilliant secondary addiction to stave off the effects

of my three primary addictions, which were love, food, and work.

So she is like a very like therapized girly.

Yes.

Um, she is like a huge fan of IFS.

She wrote the Forward to Dick Schwartz's No Bad Parts, and she's

spoken at several therapy conferences.

Um, she is just a goddess and seriously, one of the best live shows I've ever seen.

Her voice Live is insane.

Um, so this song is called Reasons I Drink.

Wait, I love that video, right?

Oh, I had never actually watched the video.

I've heard the song a bajillion times, but yeah, it was pretty great.

Yeah, she had, she just like has such an interesting.

Inflection and like her voice, you know, it's just, you know, it's her.

Yeah.

And so I feel like that's like, that I don't, I don't know.

I love when an artist is just like, so like, branded in that way of like,

you'll always know that it's them.

It's just like really iconic voice.

Mm-hmm.

And just the video was really cool, just like seeing herself in everyone

that was there and everything.

Okay.

Yeah.

Hey, Atlantic.

Yeah.

What you got?

Okay.

I had my song picked out and then I, as I was, I was gonna initially do

Bottoms Up by Trey Songs and Nicki Minaj, because You're fucking kidding.

One iconic song.

And then I was like going through Trey song's, um, Wikipedia.

And I was like, uhoh, like he's been essaying.

Um, and just like all this other stuff, like a lot of like sexual assault charges.

And I was like.

Ew, no thanks and bummer, like no thanks.

Also like, fuck you Trey songs.

Yeah, like that was one of Nicki Mina's most iconic verses ever.

So I had to pivot 'cause we're, I'm never platforming a disgusting man.

Mm-hmm.

Goodbye.

So I picked Escapism by Ray.

So this was her breakout single through TikTok kind of popularity.

Late 2022.

The third song in her independently released album, my 21st century

blues that dropped in 2023.

So Rachel Keen, 27 AKA Ray.

Is born to Ghanaian, Swiss, and Yorkshire parents and was raised in South London.

So escapism became her first number one, single.

And she states that this song is just literally about running away

from everything as fast as you can and then engaging in like a slew

of post breakup coping mechanisms.

So looking up drugs, alcohol, this won song of the year at the 2024

Brit Awards and she's won some other awards and has had some performances.

So I feel like she's kind of like starting to get her flowers a little bit.

Um, yeah, I'm excited for you to hear it.

Mm-hmm.

I have heard this song like not that long ago, so.

Mm-hmm.

I loved it, but I've never seen the video, so I'm really excited to watch it.

Yes.

Damn.

Right.

I, she's a fucking artist, baby.

I'm seeing this vision like, you know, I'm not someone who's typically moved

by very many pop songs, but like, sure.

In addition to that, just being a, a great song, like it's moving, like it's deeply

emotional and the video just adds to that.

Like, like I'm just like sitting here like, girl,

I gotta go to the

club now.

I know.

I'm

like, I need to be like kind of depressed in the club.

Yes.

Not scare running down my face.

I was naked when I got here.

I'll be naked when I leave.

Like, fuck, I existential much bad.

Also, she's like, besides the point, she's just be beautiful.

Like, I feel like she's just like a stunned, so I'm like, okay, Ray girl.

I hope that she

just like continues to climb because I mean, I think No shade.

I get that like Lady Gaga and whatever her actual name is like.

I, I've heard some of her raw stuff.

I know she's really talented.

Oh, of course.

But in terms of like the musical style, I think Ray is, I much prefer

her style and I think she's just as talented, if not more Sure.

I think she's

gonna get out these flowers.

I hope she better.

And now for our last segment of the show, welcome to Fire Dumpster Phoenix.

It is rough out there y'all.

And we need all the hope we can get.

It's time to go dumpster diving for some positive news and rides

from the leftover Happy Meal.

Ashes together.

Hmm.

What you got for us?

I just saw this title and I was like Yeah, exactly.

So what you need to know is that there are two 10-year-old girls

also girly as if I'm butchering.

Your name is literally, so sars um, one from London, Bo Donna Sivan,

Sivan Nun Sivan Sivan dun Sivan.

Right.

And.

Ohio's K Kia or Kaya Jaw?

Both be Grand Masters.

So I'm talking, uh, chess Grand Masters.

Okay.

Um, men, so in the uk, Pete Welles and, um, in Ohio, Brian Smith,

literally within hours of one another in two separate competitions.

So Botana was going first and she, you know, beat the chess master.

And then literally a couple hours later in the states, Ms.

Kia was out here.

These little queens, both 10 years old and like a couple of months.

Um.

Like straight up beat these fucking grand MA chess grand masters.

He's like, gold dudes.

I was like, what?

So Botana made the record of the youngest female to ever

defeat a chess Grand Master.

These queens, I just can't believe they clipped and said, um, from this little

one, she said it was a dream come true.

I just was sitting here and I was like, who run the fucking world?

Girls?

Like I was like literally laughing so hard and just kind of like, I

was like, they're just Barbies.

I was like, these girlies are out here, like achieving dreams,

just like kind of kicking ass.

I was like, wait, I really can't wait to see what these divas get up to.

Wow.

I'm like, women in chess is tea.

Have you ever seen the fucking queen's gambit?

Oh my God, I did.

Right?

Yeah.

It's like obviously women can be great at chess and have been for a long time.

But it is still, I would venture to guess a pretty male dominated,

uh, I would say so thing.

And so these two little girls just popping off, like, that's great.

Yes.

And like within hours of one another, I was like, wait, that is some smet

like that, that was going on in the ether and the collective unconscious.

These little queens were just cooking at these fucking patches.

I was like, I love it.

Yeah.

Oh my God.

What's your, um, what's your good news for the week?

Okay, so we're bringing back our friends from Gallup because they always be doing

some polling, and one of the polling that they do is the life evaluation index.

Yes.

And I pulled this because.

I am not sitting here trying to minimize how dark shit is.

Like this article from The Good News Network literally starts with like, yeah,

there's Civil Wars in Myanmar and Sudan.

Climate change, like obviously is making herself known throughout the world.

Um, instability deeply and starvation and famine in the Middle East.

Like there's a lot of shit happening right now that is not pleasant.

Yeah.

And so I think it's easy to spiral into like, oh, well this is

like the worst time to be alive.

And like everything sucks.

And actually, according to how people answered this Gallup life evaluation

this year, um, quote, men and women, young and old, consider themselves

to be thriving in larger numbers than any other time in the past.

So they were ranked, uh, scale zero to 10.

Four and below is classified as suffering.

Five to six is struggling.

Seven to 10 is thriving.

And a third of the surveyed populations spread across 142 countries describe

themselves as currently thriving.

So part of what I love about this too is like, oh man, there's, there's this

great section in, uh, that book Golden that I was mentioning that goes off on

how problematic it is that we've started to use the GDP as this just like general

measure of how well is this country doing?

Yeah.

Like, guess what?

Turns out that there's a lot more metrics besides, uh, how

economically a country is doing.

'cause some things that actually lead to economic growth lead to a decline in

overall wellbeing of a population, right?

So it's become this sort of be all, end all, and it shouldn't be.

But I love how this article called that out of saying like, unlike metrics of GDP.

That predominantly measure economic output, um, that these self-reported

metrics of thriving or suffering can give this greater clarity as

to whether that wealth is or is not leading to a more prosperous society.

Um, it said rates of thriving has have risen con consistently

across demographics.

Um, and I just think that this is, you know, a little bit of good news.

Like there's, uh, thriving can actually coexist with a lot of this

other bullshit that is also happening.

Yes.

Very much the middle path, right?

Hmm.

It's both and unfortunately it's, but we can't have, and in some of the ways,

you can't have the good, you can't recognize the good without the bad.

So it's just like the cyclical nature of shit trust.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Alright, listeners, well leaving you in that existential pit

of doom and beauty as we do.

See you next time.

Bye

bye.

This has been another episode of But For Real, produced by Valerie Martin and

Emerson writer and edited by Sean Conlin,

but For Real is a Gaia Center production.

The Gaia Center offers individual couples and group therapy for clients

across Tennessee and in person in our Nashville office, as well as

coaching for clients worldwide.

For show notes or to learn more about our work, visit gaia center.co or find us

on Instagram at the Gaia Center and at.

But For Real Pod

But for Real is intended for education and entertainment and is not a

substitute for mental health treatment.

Also since we host this podcast primarily as humans rather than clinicians, we

are not shy here about sharing our opinions on everything from snacks and

movies to politicians and social issues.

Thanks so much for listening to this episode.

See you next time.

Bestie.