E052 - Handling Narcissistic Family Members During the Holidays: Protect Your Peace & Self-Esteem With Kristin Hill
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[00:00:00] Are you the only one noticing a family members, toxic behavior while everyone else just tiptoes around it. In this episode, we are diving into the unique challenges of dealing with a narcissistic family member who isn't your partner. Like a mother-in-law, especially right now during the holidays.
Speaker: Welcome to Heartbreak to Wholeness, the podcast helping you heal from the mindfuck of narcissistic relationships and move towards the secure, peaceful woman you want to become.
I am your host, Bre Wolta, Relationship Clarity Coach and EFT Certified Practitioner. Let's dive in.
Well, welcome to the episode this week. I am chatting with a woman named Kristin hill. She is a licensed mental health professional, a mother to two young boys and the daughter in law to a narcissist, which is what our episode is about today. How to deal with narcissistic family members, especially during the holidays.
So Kristin and I talk a lot [00:01:00] about the cringy challenges that she went through as the daughter-in-law and how she didn't lose her mind. We talk about how to understand and manage this balance between respecting the family dynamic, respecting the family ties and also protecting your peace and what that looks like. With boundaries. And the number one piece of advice that you need before you even start to set boundaries during the holiday season. And be sure to stick around to the end of the episode, where I will pull an Oracle card, this card will offer you a message that you can use this week to stay more conscious in your healing.
Speaker 2: Welcome, Kristen, to the episode. I am so thrilled that you're here. Hi, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. Listeners have a real treat today Kristen is here to talk to us about how to navigate somebody in your life who is not your partner, who is narcissistic.
Speaker 3: And
Speaker 2: she's going to share a little bit about her journey with a mother in law that is narcissistic. I'm [00:02:00] so excited to hear everything that you have to say, because a lot of the clients that I work with not only have a partner who is narcissistic, but also struggle with either family in law or coworkers or friends or family.
It's just, these people are not specific to just romantic relationships. So thank you. Thank you for being here and being willing to, to share your story. Yeah. I'm happy. Happy to share. Okay, so give us a little context about what this looked like in the relationship that you had with your mother in law.
Speaker 4: Sure. Um, yeah, well, I think it's important to understand that I was pretty young when I came into the relationship with my husband. We started dating when I was 20. And so my first introduction even to her was at 20. And, um, a funny little story with that is that I went to visit them for the first time over like a Kristin's break.
I was still in college. My husband was in grad school. And, um, [00:03:00] when I got there, my mother in law told me I needed to put my suitcase in the garage, so that I would have more room in the bedroom I was staying in. And so every morning, so I was trying to be respectful, right? So every morning, I would have to go out into the garage.
in the winter time to get my clothes. Oh my gosh. Uh, that was a power move. I'm sure. Um, and the other thing that when I visited there, that was again, very odd to me, but I wouldn't have picked up because I was young and I didn't understand was only she could use the hall bathroom. Everyone else had to use the bathroom in their bedroom, even guests.
So yeah, very odd, right? When you're new and you're dating someone, you don't know their family going into their parents bedroom to like get ready or take a shower feels really uncomfortable. Right. And so those were the first two kind of like, odd things that I thought, this is very strange, [00:04:00] but everyone else in the family was like, well, it's just how she is.
You know, there's very much that family dynamic, of this is just how she is. We just kind of, you know, tiptoe around it and navigate. So, but I was young. I didn't understand so much of what I was experiencing and how to even articulate it. Um, and so I think that's important in the story because It's hard to know these things when we're that young and we don't have like a background in, you know, mental health and we can't pinpoint, something feels off, but I don't know what it is.
So, um, that's kind of how we started. We got married when I was 23. And by that point, still very young, feeling very uncomfortable around her, but not really sure what to do about it other than to keep trying to be okay with it for the better of the whole family. Right.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Oh
Speaker 2: my gosh.
Especially I can imagine that like [00:05:00] the confusion and the fear potentially of you being the only one that's seeing this as like wrong and all the rest of the family just feeling this is who she is and we just walk on eggshells or we just conform to whatever she wants.
Speaker 4: Yes, exactly. Yeah. And I think in that dynamic, you just think, well, maybe I'm the problem, right?
So like, I must be the one that needs to get over this issue, you know, when I would feel uncomfortable about certain things she would do or say. Um, I'm trying to think, there's so many examples, like, she would stand behind me if I was like getting ready somewhere in their house
and look at me in the mirror and like pepper me with all these little questions. Um, it just never felt safe or comfortable with her. But it's kind of when you are dealing with a dynamic where your husband is also just used to this, it's, you know, you're just like, well, is this just an odd person? And I just have to ignore these things.
Um, and so I think for the [00:06:00] longest time, I tried to just sort of assimilate into the dynamic and not make a lot of waves. And I also think I married the golden child, which we know narcissists generally have like a favorite child. And so I think just me being with him, no matter who I was, she would have been difficult for that person because of that.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes. And what was that, what was that like for your husband to be witnessing sort of your discomfort with her, but his familiarity with how she was acting? Like, how did that play out with, with the two of you? Yeah. I mean, I
Speaker 4: think, you know, he had said to me, he always knew she was like odd and off.
Um, and his whole thing going into our relationship was, I'm just not going to tell her. My mom's super off. Cause I don't want her to feel uncomfortable or like scared to meet my mom. So I'll just kind of not say anything and hope that it's okay. But in turn, what that did was [00:07:00] it made me feel afraid to like say a lot of stuff about what I was experiencing.
Cause I'm like, well, they think this is normal. So I think for a long time I didn't say a lot. And then I started speaking up and He definitely could hear what I was saying, but you know, it's that dynamic where you're defensive of your family system. And, um, you are trying to like support this new person in your life.
And so we had a lot of fights. We fought a lot. As, as anyone who knows engaging with a narcissist, they can come between two people so easily. And, he just really struggled because, um, He's close to his dad, close to his brother, and they were still fully in that dynamic, so not only was I sort of this outsider being like, hey, wait a minute, things aren't right here.
Um, but then he's starting to feel like he's an outsider when he's bringing things up because they're still trying to be like, no, we're gonna keep operating in this way so that we don't rock the boat, right? [00:08:00] And so he was constantly kind of navigating that back and forth and it was really stressful for him and overwhelming.
Speaker 2: I can imagine. That's like, like the epitome of being pulled between your mom and your wife. It's like, like in the extreme version, it's kind of like what I envision. Um, what was that movie with? J Lo. Monster in law? Oh
Speaker 4: yes, yes. I think that's
Speaker 2: what the name, the name was Monster in law. Which I don't know, I can't remember if she was portrayed as a narcissist or just like a difficult mother in law.
But this, this like pull that the son feels between the woman who raised him and the woman that he's now spending his life with. How, how long were you guys in that place of And, and what sort of helped you and your husband be able to get on the same page around, around what was happening with his mom?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was a long, I will be honest. It was a long time. Again, I think, you know, when I went into grad school, so I think we had been married [00:09:00] about three years when I went into grad school and I started really, You know, as we can do in those kind of school environments, you're applying it to your own family life.
And I had a bunch of these light bulb moments. And fortunately I could go home to him and say, I'm seeing these patterns, you know, and like connecting, I think your mom is a narcissist and he could see it. So he's not resistant to it. I think it kind of was a light bulb moment for him and made a lot of sense and helped him kind of make sense of so many experiences in his childhood.
And so I think that that kind of, it's like we did these tiny little sort of movements forward over years. Right. So like, Find a first understanding, oh my gosh, this is who we're dealing with. And then still trying to navigate being newly married and all these family holidays and, you know, trying to figure out with a lot of trial and error, like what are the safe [00:10:00] ways to be engaged in the family?
And so it took us a really long time. And I think for a lot of people, when you have a child, is kind of when, things amp up in terms of like your protectiveness, your, you know, like, uh, just You're less willing to put up with dysfunctional systems, right? And so when we had our son, that's when things really took a turn.
And I would love to share a holiday story
Speaker 3: that went
Speaker 4: very bad. That was a huge turning point for us. So we had, learned a lot. We kind of, we came to understand, okay, this is who this person is. over, I don't know, five years or so. And then we would try to sort of like enact these boundaries, but when you have a husband who's still dipping his toe in the, the dynamic to like, survive, you as the, spouse don't feel [00:11:00] protected, you know?
And so you're constantly hypervigilant all the time when you're in that family space. So I was doing that still up until we had our son. And even after, and there's some things that happened after we had our first child that she was there for. And so she ended up being very tied to a trauma that I experienced.
Um, it was very, you know, it's very vulnerable when you have a baby and you, the last person you want is your narcissistic mother in law present for anything. So that was a mistake we made, but then you jumped to our son almost being one and it's Kristin's. And we agreed to go to a family house together, vacation house.
It's all the family. So I have my brother and sister in law who also have two very small children, like one and a baby. And then we have my husband and me and I have my one year old and we're all staying in one house together. I wouldn't recommend this for anyone.
Speaker 2: It already sounds [00:12:00] terrible.
Speaker 4: It is. But I think, again, it's like, I don't know about you, but I think our generation, our parents generation, there's kind of this, like, we all stay together in a house and we do these things.
And our generation is realizing that doesn't. Um, and I was like, I don't think that's going to work anymore. Um, but we hadn't quite got there yet. So we're staying at this house and a lot of things that happened to where I wanted to leave, some really bad situations and my sweet sister in law thought, well, let's just get everyone together in the living room and talk about everything.
How, how do you imagine something like that would go with a narcissist, narcissist in the family? She's going to feel attacked and she's going to double down. But the one thing that she did do that was very validating for me is she's, she's, Said, I have a problem in this family and the problem is you.
And she pointed right at me. And in a way I felt like, okay, fine. Now everyone's seeing it because for the last, I dunno, seven [00:13:00] years, I've been like screaming, Hey, she's really awful to me. . And everyone's kind of like downplaying it, right? So it's like in the room everyone's seeing she doesn't like me.
Essentially it did not end well and we ended up saying we're going to leave in the middle of the vacation. Um, however, because my husband was still pulled into his family dynamics and feeling like if we leave and our brother and sister in law stay, there's going to be this comparison and there's going to be more problems.
So we ended up staying, which was a very bad decision and it felt horrible. And so after that incident, we were able to really take a step back and say, okay, we need to have some better boundaries with traveling, with visits, um, with holidays, because that situation was really bad. So yeah, that's kind of where we really started to be [00:14:00] on the same page with, okay, we're going to readjust how we're navigating the family.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Fortunately and unfortunately, sometimes it takes like a rock bottom moment like that for, for us and or the other people to see sort of the, the realism that's happening.
What, what actually is the dynamic? How bad is this actually? And it sounds like that was the moment where your husband couldn't, couldn't like deny it anymore or not protect you and your child anymore. Yes.
Speaker 4: Exactly.
Speaker 2: That natural progression of, for men, like moving from, um, Being underneath their, like their parents wing and protecting the family to moving to protecting the family that they're building with their spouse and their children potentially is, is a transitional one, right?
And women go through that too in a different way. But for him [00:15:00] to really sounds like step forward to say, I'm, I'm taking my wife's. Side on this because your behavior mom is unacceptable. Had to be so validating for you as the spouse.
Speaker 4: Yes. Very validating. And I think what was even bigger was him saying that in front of his brother, because you have these dynamics where like, you see that the brother doesn't want to look at the situation in the way it really is.
He wants to keep the status quo, but yet they're close. And so it was like him trying to navigate that relationship. Yeah. But then realizing I still have to choose my wife and my family over here. There's just so much time and, and, and trial and error that it takes to get to that point. And I think that's one thing I would want anyone to know is, you know, navigating a narcissist is, it's extremely difficult cause they're very skilled, first of all.
And, um, most of us don't realize. That person is a [00:16:00] narcissist, you know, at the beginning. And so we're going to make a lot of mistakes. We're going to make a lot of mistakes with our partners and, and protecting them and, you know, figuring out what the boundaries are. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And like you said, it took you five years, you and your husband, five years to even get to the place of starting to see this for really what it was.
And I'm curious, how did the, when you did start setting boundaries, like, how did that process? Go with her .
Speaker 4: Uh, there's a lot of, manipulation and pushback. Because essentially we said we're gonna just kind of take a step back from the family, you know, and,
she'll either go silent. And like, just be angry, , or she will retaliate in some kind of, you know, blaming way, and be the victim. And that's often kind of her MO is like, I'm the victim here, I'm not doing anything wrong. She'll always double down in, you know, her [00:17:00] behavior and defend it.
Speaker 2: What, what advice would you give listeners who are like, I don't know how to set a boundary.
This, this feels, Totally unmanageable with this person because they just stomp all over anything that we say we're gonna do. What, what worked for you and your husband?
Speaker 4: First it was just, um, simple things like we're gonna, if we visit, we're not going to stay with you.
Right. So kind of finding these, like, I think a lot of people go to like, we just, we should cut them out. I don't know if you feel this way, but I feel like culture kind of in the way that, you know, I don't know, all these different voices around on social media. There's a lot of, I think, even support for that, like cutting people out of your life that are, personality disordered.
And while that might be great for some people, I actually do think, um, a lot of times those relationships still can have some value. And so, and our situation, it was like, the way that we can see you is we have to have shorter visits. We're not going to stay at your house [00:18:00] ever. Um, and if you, you know, if some of any of these things happen, like if you don't respect, I don't know, our space, or these choices, or, even just like watching our children, which they didn't get to do a lot of, frankly, because I didn't feel comfortable, but even those little moments, if, if we felt like you weren't respecting what we were asking, then you're going to not have those anymore.
You're going to lose out on those opportunities. And the biggest thing with that is following through, right? And this is where things got messed up because my husband would get a little bit pulled back in and then I would acquiesce to something and then we'd be in the same situation again.
So it kind of took, um, it did take another few years to get on that really both of us solid and it on the same page. It's like he had, he was on a longer, because it's his mother, he was on a longer path with this of being really willing to [00:19:00] accept fully the reality and, hold strong finally.
It's like because I think with a narcissist you can have these little moments, right? Where they you think like, oh, maybe we've connected or maybe They get it. I think as a children you hope that, you're always gonna hold a hope and so you get that little moment with them and you think oh, maybe it's okay It's not and you learn that pretty quickly, right?
So we had to have those interactions multiple times I
Speaker 2: call that place Potential Land, where we go to. And we're like, when I'm living in this place, mom is better, our relationship is good, or with my clients who have narcissistic partners, it's like he finally got his shit together, or he's finally not yelling anymore, he's finally in therapy, and Part of the narcissistic cycle is having those moments of what feels like connection, what feels like them being different.
And that's why we hold on. We get sucked [00:20:00] back in over and over and over again because of those little glimmers of hope, which are so detrimental because they never come to fruition. Right.
Speaker 4: Don't you think it's just so hard? The child, especially of a narcissist, it's hard to accept that, deeply.
Because what does that mean about me? If my parent is this dysfunctional. And I have to accept that. What does that mean for me and about me? Yes. And so I have, I had a lot of empathy for my husband through the process. I mean, we certainly had our, you know, it was emotional and it was very hard. And at the same time I could understand why he was struggling to hold strong,
Speaker 2: Yeah, for somebody who's been in a relationship with a narcissist for a long period of time, there's, there's the hope, yes, and then when we start to let go, when we start to come back into that reality place of this is who this person really is, there's so much grief that we have to move through.
So it's [00:21:00] not just grieving. That the relationship is different. It's grieving what you thought you had as a child. It's grieving who you thought your mother was. It's grieving who you wish your mother was. It's grieving who you are because of who your mother is. Right. It's like, there are just layers after layers after layers of.
of feelings that come up when we start to really see people in our life for who they are and stop making excuses, stop acquiescing, stop pretending like it's okay. That's, it's really admirable that your husband like walked through that fire.
Speaker 4: I honestly feel really lucky because All along the way, I never felt like he was just shutting me down in denial, right?
Um, and I know some people do experience that and that is very difficult. And so in that way, I don't think our marriage could have sustained any of this had he not been able to continue growing and expanding, but just at a different pace than me, right?
Speaker 2: Yeah, [00:22:00] absolutely. And one thing that you had said earlier about the boundaries I want to, I want to touch on when, when you started setting boundaries, it sounded like you were actually setting boundaries and not making requests.
So this is something, this is something that I teach my clients and just talked about in the previous episode on how to set boundaries with narcissistic people is a lot of the times we're like, please stop, please stop doing this thing. It's hurting me. And then they don't stop. And then we're like, my boundary didn't work.
When in reality, a boundary is just expressing what you're going to do if they continue. Right. And they can do whatever they want, but If they choose to do the thing that you're not going to put up with, then you have to follow through with your part of the boundary. So it's like, Instead of, please stop talking to my child that way, it's, if you talk to my child this way, we are leaving.
Right. And when we do boundaries that way, the way that they're meant to be done, then we don't [00:23:00] feel like we're being stomped all over, we don't feel like our boundaries don't work, because we're in full control of what we're gonna do. based on someone's behavior.
Speaker 4: Yes.
Speaker 2: It's no longer this like, I'm trying to manipulate, manipulate to be someone you're not, or I'm trying to convince you why your behavior is so detrimental.
It's you can continue to be you, but I'm doing this.
Speaker 4: Yes. I love that you brought that up because that's such a huge part. I mean, I'm sure I know we did that initially, like, Hey, don't do that. You know, those kinds of things. And, um, and then realizing, anything you're saying to them.
It has to be short and it has to be direct. You don't want to open any anything up for debate.. And I think that's hard to learn because the way that a normal healthy person would communicate is like, this is how I'm feeling. And this is what I would really. You know love to have in our relationship or whatever, but you can't do that with a narcissist You have to fully accept I cannot communicate with you like [00:24:00] another healthier person in my life and that's something that's I think often hard to just because a person that's healthier It's natural to them to want to have a conversation instead of literally say, no, we're not doing this.
Yeah. Um, and so certainly we had those moments and, and then did realize, what you're saying. But I also think if you're married to someone or if you have someone in your family who's struggling with this, like you were kind of saying, you have to take back some control, and get very solid within your own self.
That's a huge part of this journey, at least for me. was kind of like what you're saying when you kind of give them a suggestion and then they don't abide by it and then it just wrecks you like that's kind of it's like you want to protect yourself from them having any of that power and empower your own self by setting those boundaries.
Um, I did a lot of EMDR work with a therapist around, situations with my mother in law that were very [00:25:00] upsetting. Like, I, when I, when we would visit her before I did any of that work, I would have borderline panic attacks. I would, every time I would see her, I couldn't look her in the eye. , my, my heart would be like racing.
I would be terrified to even be in a room with her by myself. And, once I just started, I'm focusing on myself getting solid within my own self of my, like validating my experience. Number one. Okay. Um, validating that, it's been painful and uncomfortable and, realizing it's okay if I speak up and other people aren't comfortable, like that's okay.
And learning how to withstand that feeling, essentially. Even when other people are not okay with what you were doing, kind of being like, this is what I have to do for myself. It took me years to get there.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Um, and I definitely think becoming a mother helped me because I was like a mama bear. I'm not going to put up with this anymore, [00:26:00] you know?
Yeah. So yeah, we can do a lot for our own selves, even when other people, are dysfunctional. .
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean part of part of boundary setting is learning how to set the boundary of like what it literally what it is. Right? This is, if you do this, I'm gonna do this. But the bigger part of setting a boundary is being, able to regulate your nervous system.
Yes. In the middle of discomfort. Yes. Because likely when you set a boundary is specifically with a narcissistic person. They're not gonna like that boundary. No. And you're gonna get some sort of. verbal lash or some sort of consequence to that. And you have to know that you're making the right choice for you.
And you have to be able to regulate your nervous system so that you can withstand that discomfort and the dynamic without being like, nevermind, just kidding. We'll stay. It's fine just to make the peace, that's a lot of times how we, how we get ourselves out of that anxiety or that discomfort places.
We just take back [00:27:00] everything that we need. And so building the confidence, building the self respect, building the strength, building the nervous system regulation, like being able to be in that discomfort, that all, those are all skills that you can learn, absolutely. And take some time to like integrate and implement in your life.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes. And I think sometimes you need to take a long break from engaging with those people until you get there. So that you don't keep kind of re entering into a traumatic situation for yourself. Um, I think it was, well, it was around election, no, it was COVID time when we actually cut, we had to cut her off for a while.
I think it was about a year. And I think, you know, that was actually a good thing to do that because we were able to get better tools for self regulating and get grounded in our own relationship. And so if people have to do those things, you know, it's painful.
Um, some of the family [00:28:00] members might be upset with you, but if it actually meant that we got to kind of go back into a situation where we could engage with her in some capacity and she could have some kind of relationship with us and our kids, Because she's a good grandma. She's not, at least at this point, my kids are 11 and nine.
They're definitely picking up on some odd things about her. They're like, you know, my son the other day was like, grandma, uh, I like being with grandpa, but grandma just doesn't stop asking me questions, you know, and it's a little uncomfortable for him. So as they get older, their alarm bells are probably going to go off,
But I like to tell any client that also is working with a parent figure like this, generally speaking, your parent isn't going to hurt your child the way they hurt you. They just don't have that attachment with your own child, like they did with you. Um, and certainly when we set boundaries and, you know, keep, , their impact low on our kids, that helps.
But I think a lot of times people project their own childhood onto their kids. [00:29:00] So that's something we've been navigating as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I like, I love your point of this person can serve a purpose in some capacity where sometimes absolutely we have to cut people out for our safety, psychological, physical, or otherwise, but sometimes.
With the right boundaries, we're able to put people in certain, like, categories of relationships. Yes. So the mother in law potentially isn't, probably based on what you're telling me, isn't someone that you're going to for comfort and for, for like that deep connection, that deep relationship. No. She's serving a purpose as grandma that you see a couple times a year or how often in your time blocks that are very boundaried.
And finding the thing that works for both you and your husband and your kids in that dynamic. And then giving yourself permission at any point that that needs to change. Yes, yes,
Speaker 4: exactly. That's the biggest [00:30:00] thing, I think, is you're giving yourself permission. This is working now, but if it ever isn't working, it's okay to change things.
Speaker 2: And I love
Speaker 4: Yeah, go ahead. Love
Speaker 2: that. You and your husband have that line of communication, it sounds like, of now that you're both aware of what's happening. He's accepted more of the reality of the thing. This open line of like, no, our, our family comes first. This is how we're protecting it and this is how I'm standing for you.
Speaker 4: Yes. And I do think when there's a lot at stake for the narcissist, like in particular our kids now, we are not using our kids as like. If you do this, you're not going to see your grandkids, but she knows she's going to see us less if she, when we do see her doesn't behave essentially, like that's kind of, cause she's kind of like a child sometimes.
Speaker 2: It really does change perspective. I'm, I'm currently pregnant and these are conversations that my partner and I have had with some difficult people in our life where it's just no longer something that we [00:31:00] can be around or bring, bring our child into or that we want to bring our child into.
And so feeling a different level of. Even though our child isn't even born yet. It's like we're, we're playing out these different scenarios of what are our boundaries going to be? And what do we need for us as a threesome to feel safe? Like this is our family. And then to bring in people as we need for connection and support, but like maintaining some boundaries around our unit comes first, it's really, it's really been an interesting thought experiment.
Yeah. So Kristen, what, what would be something for the woman listening that's resonating with this? Maybe it's a mother in law. Maybe it's another person in her spouse's family. Maybe it's someone in her own family. Yeah. Like, I really need to make a shift here because I don't like Being a dynamic with this person.
What would be a word of wisdom or one tip that you can give [00:32:00] that woman who maybe feels overwhelmed on where to start with this?
Speaker 4: Yeah. You know, the thing that I just keep coming back to, and it's kind of a, I don't know, it feels like, um, a very buzzword right now. But getting grounded in yourself and figuring out like, can I trust my own self and my own experience?
And if you're finding that that's hard, Surround yourself with people who do help you get there, whether it's a therapist or a group or a really solid friend, someone that can validate your experience because in a narcissistic situation, we're gaslit a lot. Um, and it's very, we often are very much questioning our reality.
So I think that's huge is just having that anchor for yourself first.
Speaker 2: I love that and that's true of romantic relationships too. We need an external person who's not in it that can help reflect back to us what, what it is and what it should be. Like [00:33:00] your mother in law should not stand behind you and ask you a thousand questions while you're putting on your mascara.
Like that's just weird or whatever is happening, right? That's really odd behavior and someone witnessing you in that It does so much for your own confidence and building up to giving yourself the validation around this is, this is the dynamic that I'm in and this is not okay with me.
Perfect. Well, I love to end these episodes by pulling an Oracle card. Have you worked with these before?
Speaker 3: No,
Speaker 2: but I'm excited to.
So if you don't mind, go ahead and close your eyes for me. I'm just going to start shuffling as we tune into the question of what is the message that the listeners need to hear today? Whenever you just feel like the shuffle's complete, you let me know when to stop.
Speaker 4: Stop.
Speaker 2: Okay, we got the judge. Oh. [00:34:00] Which, for those of you not watching the video, it looks like a A chair that a judge would sit in, I guess, like a very fancy, a very fancy chair.
Let me find it in the book here and I'll read you the message.
Okay. The judge sits in the tall chair overseeing a situation, argument, decision, or conflict. It's a position and a perspective of reverence and responsibility. Looking through the eyes of the judge, you find yourself in a position of authority. One that requires patience, discernment, and compassion. The judge doesn't indiscriminately pass judgment without all the facts, context, data, empathy, and love.
It's a perspective of wholeness. See the whole picture and make the best decision you can at this time. If you need more information, contact us. Get it. If you need to take time, take it. If you find yourself at a crossroads of a big decision, the judge is here to remind you that the decision made with a little bit of distance and time [00:35:00] is better than one made from reactivity or fear.
That applies. Yeah, I like
Speaker 4: the whole picture, this sort of spanning out and looking at the whole picture because we can so just lean into these little moments,
Speaker 2: and especially with a narcissist or a narcissistic person, they are feeding off of our reactivity. And so the more that we can get grounded in ourselves,
Speaker 3: come
Speaker 2: into our knowing of who we are, what we deserve, set our boundaries that are very clear, and not be from a place of reactivity and high emotional action.
Yes. And the better outcome we will have.
Yes. Kristen, if somebody wants to get in touch with you, where would we point them to, to find more information about, about you?
Speaker 4: Yeah. Um, I have a website just by name kristenhilltherapy. com and, and there you can find email and, and a phone number.
Beautiful.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you again for sharing your [00:36:00] story and bringing another, um, facet of these types of relationships. for us to talk about and just bring some awareness to.
Speaker 4: Hey, you're welcome. It was really, it was cool to talk about it. I'm glad to share it. Hope it, hope it helps someone.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, it absolutely will.
I have no doubt. Thank you.
So good. Right. Especially, if you have had experience with narcissistic people in your family. And narcissist can come in any form. We know this, it can be your romantic partner. Your mother, your mother-in-law, your brother, your sister, your cousin, your uncle, right? They, they can be anyone that we are in relationship with.
So I hope Kristin's story helped to bring another angle for you to identify with of what this looks like. Especially during the holiday season where we are around family members, more often that maybe we don't see all of the time. So to recap what we went through today, in Kristin's episode, she shared some really [00:37:00] cringe-worthy moments. What the experience was with her.
Mother-in-law. How she started to see that things weren't quite right. And how the cat really came out of the bag. When the mother-in-law totally told her that she was the problem in front of their entire family. We got to hear and better understand what her process looked like to start to set boundaries with the mother-in-law. And how much intention and energy actually had to go into that process specifically for her husband who was a little bit more tied, obviously to his mother. And that dynamic that they were in. And how important it is to create that secure sense of self before venturing into really setting and holding these boundaries with somebody who's narcissistic. Because we really want to be able to validate ourselves.
We want to be able to regulate our nervous system. We, we want to be able to communicate, to safe people what we need, how we need support. And create the most optimal experience that we can when [00:38:00] setting the boundaries. Again, especially during the holidays. Everything gets exacerbated during the holidays. That's just the way it goes. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure that you go back to the episode right before this, it was episode 51. It is called three ways to set and maintain healthy boundaries with a narcissist or emotion or emotionally immature people.
This holiday season. Even more tips and tools around boundaries. As we are smack dab in the middle of this time of year. As always this podcast is for you and you are not alone. I have a seat in the next episode.