Julia (00:00)

there's all this hype around

women in sport and and you know, female athletes and stuff, which I love. It's amazing. But we're we're losing, two out of three girls to sport during the teenagers. They they drop out rapidly.

Paul Warloski (00:37)

Hello and welcome to the Athletes Compass Podcast, where we navigate training, fitness, and health for everyday athletes. Welcome to the second part of our interview with Dr. Julia Casadio where we talk about working with adolescent girls and the work Julia does with her strength, which includes a groundbreaking course for coaches.

Paul Laursen (00:57)

Where

do you wanna start here now, kind of transitioning into into your other area of expertise that's happened over the last five years or so and her strength, more than five years, because it it it immense it it it originates from a story that began when you were the at that a at that age, I believe.

Julia (01:13)

Yeah, I guess as as a physiologist working in elite sport, like I just I I I was always interested in, you know, female physiology and you see all these initiatives starting about, you know, we're gonna do this for the female athletes. But I thought there was always a disconnect between talking about stuff and actually doing it and actually like

making some positive changes for the female athlete. So that's one thing. And then you'd see these young girls come in to the carding system and they've got no idea about their body or about how to really, you know, fuel properly, recover properly and and what that looks like as a as a growing female that's not fully developed. So you know, there's all this hype around

women in sport and and you know, female athletes and stuff, which I love. It's amazing. But we're we're missing we're we're losing, you know, two out of three girls to sport during the teenagers. They they drop out rapidly. It's the greatest there's well, f female puberty is is no cup of tea.

Paul Laursen (02:28)

Why is that?

Marjaana Rakai (02:37)

Yeah.

Julia (02:39)

It's not you know, it it with combined with sport, it's challenging. You know? Males males

Paul Laursen (02:43)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. the

males that are listening to this we we we're we're ignorant to it. So we don't we don't understand. So yeah.

Julia (02:50)

Well, like a male gro going through puberty, it's awesome. They get taller, they get stronger, they get more muscle mass, they get leaner, their confidence goes up. It serves their sport brilliantly, right? Females, they they get taller, but they don't get stronger right away. they're more likely to get injured because of that. Their hips widen. Okay, that's

Paul Laursen (03:04)

Yeah. Yeah.

Julia (03:17)

another thing, throwing off their balance and and putting them potentially at risk of ACL injuries. to be healthy hormonally, they put on body fat. There's a body composition change for f females. And and a lot of girls don't like that. Especially in their if they're in a sport and they're they're used to having a f a being a certain way and then all of a sudden their bodies changed. You know?

they they get boobs, they get their period. a lot of girls struggle teenage girls struggle with their period because they're more sensitive to their estrogen receptors are more sensitive and it's new for them having these these fluctuations of hormones and so often their symptoms can be a little bit more severe. and they're also their periods will be irregular in in the first couple years so unpredictable and a bit more challenging to manage. So

There's all these things going on, and you can just imagine how it would affect their sport. But no one talks about it. You know, no one talks about it. There isn't support for them. And and you see a lot of girls leaving sport. And the research shows that, you know, physical factors is a big one of why they leave. You know, whether they get injured or

Marjaana Rakai (04:23)

Yeah.

Julia (04:42)

they just don't they they have a bit of a fluctuation in their performance and they plateau. There is a some some girls plateau for a period of time, kind of when they start putting on that that body weight. And and that can be enough to knock their confidence. perceived competence is another one why they drop out and and reduced enjoyment. Maybe because it's yeah, people don't understand what their experience is like and it's it's they're not able to make it supportive and fun anymore. So

It's not really when you look at all those things, it's not a surprise why girls are dropping out. So I guess that's why I've started her strength was you know, there's the biggest opportunity we have in in female sport I think is with our young female athletes.

Marjaana Rakai (05:18)

Yeah.

Paul Laursen (05:29)

Yeah. It's so hidden though. Like I just honestly, Julia, until you and her strength have have come through, I was, you know, embarrassingly, I was ignorant to this to this issue. So yeah, thank you.

Marjaana Rakai (05:29)

Mm-hmm.

It it's so I have three kids, boy, girl, boy. And my oldest, he grew up tall and put on muscle like in an instant. And my my 14 year old girl and her friends, she plays basketball.

She her performance has been pretty steady so far. So I haven't seen changes in her, but her teammates, like some of them who have been early in their in their, you know, hormonal changes, they've put on masks, they've gotten like their performance it

Julia (06:22)

I mean

Marjaana Rakai (06:27)

is slower, it's affected their coordination. Like there are so many things that happen during teenage years and the and the change. and some of it is is physiological, but then I think a big thing is that it's no longer fun and the coaches are not understanding of the physiological changes, so they can't change the program

To keep these girls, you know, confident and and talking about it, that it's transient period where you your your performance might change a little bit, but then it will stabilize, and then you start gaining progress again once once your hormonal changes have stabilized. So I see it like

almost daily that the coaches are pushing their program that they've maybe pushed with boys without understanding the psychological effect that the girls are dealing with with

why am I not getting any better? I'm actually getting slower, right? And and the thing is with the teenage girls is that ever and boys, that they everybody are on their own track. Some people mature really fast, some take longer time, some some people start their teenage years or growth spread early, and there can be like a five-year span.

Julia (07:38)

Yeah, no.

Marjaana Rakai (07:59)

Of when they actually start. Some start 10, some start later. And somebody whom was the fastest, the best, whatever, at 12, suddenly at 14 is no longer the best. So what happens, right? So it there's so many different things to like if you're a parent or a coach to think about and take into account.

Paul Warloski (08:27)

Julia, I'm just thinking, you know, and I'm hoping you can explain more of her strength. I've got four junior girls that I coach and they're all in this, you know, puberty time and and growing and and and I was also a middle school teacher, so I have some experience with with teenage girls, but that never led me to understand fully about how differently to to work with them. So can you explain

you know, what parents and coaches should be doing differently and how that applies to her strength.

Julia (09:02)

Yeah, yeah, totally. And and that's that's the big part. Like the first piece is just awareness and and understanding what's actually going on. And then that's wonderful. But if you don't have some some tools to use,

then you might not see any difference, right? So it's all about you know having the confidence to use some tools or make some changes and and confidence to make decisions. So as a coach, that's a big one is you know we say there's having the confidence to be able to adjust a young girl's training on a given day. And and why might you adjust a young girl's training? Well maybe they've maybe they're in the

Middle of a growth spurt, or they've just had a sudden growth spurt, and training load needs to come down a little bit to help them through through that that stage so they're not more at risk of getting injured, right? That's that's a big one. so when girls have a rapid growth spurt, it's usually around

the average age will be will be twelve years old. But if if training if they have a rapid jump in in their height and training load suddenly goes up, that's that's the kind of biggest red flag of when, hey, there's actually something worth adjusting here, and that would be their training load. So you don't want to combine a gross spurt and a sudden jump in training at the same time. So

Paul Laursen (10:38)

Hm.

Julia (10:39)

So examples of what that looks like in in practice is going from the off season to starting a sport again. Okay, that's a sudden jump in training load. doing a training camp concentrated for a week, that's a jump in training load. adding another sport is a jump in training load. going up a level in a sport is likely a jump. So it's if any of those things are happening and you know your child has just gone gone through a gross spurt.

Talk to the coach, figure out, you know, discuss it and say, you know, is there any way that we can we can progress the training load up rather than just going boom at this higher level? Okay, so that's gonna protect them from injury, which is really important. So that's one piece. Another piece is, you know, like I said, the the menstrual cycle side of things. If you're coaching girls, have

Or you're a parent of a girl, have the conversation of, you know, we we know that your s that your period or parts of your cycle might affect how you feel. And that's gonna maybe affect how you train. So it's worth talking about. So it like giving permission for girls and coaches and parents to talk about.

menstrual cycle and sport is a big one. saying as a coach, hey, if if you ever need a tampon or a pad, we've got some in this kit over here. And we and here are the toilets. Like we always have toilet facilities. Those things. And just like

Simple things like that and and allowing people the permission to speak about it makes a huge difference. So you might end up then having a girl come up to you. You start that conversation, you go have a girl come up to you and say, like, yeah, every time I get my before I get my period, I have really bad cramps and I don't want to come to training. And so it's, you know, having that conversation saying, Well, you know what, we you could still come if you want, and we can just change the training for you. We'll reduce the intensity. Doing some movement is still gonna actually

help you and might make you feel better. So it's just that support piece and and knowing that you know subtle things of to adjust can make a big difference. And then like there's so there's so many things we could tools and different things we could talk about what a coach can do. But but the other the other big one that stands out is just like if if you do notice a young girl that

has plateaued maybe a bit a little bit with their performance or their performance is no longer tracking at the same rate it was, to to just, you know, have patience and talk to that athlete about how they can focus on different things for a period of time. So to be an a to be a well-rounded athlete, you need to have good knowledge and experience about nutrition and hydrating and recovery and all these other little things.

That are part of part of the the picture of being you know a robust athlete and and shifting focused for a period of time is not a bad thing. It's you know, rather than just being solely focused on performance and being like, yeah, you're doing all this training, I don't know why you're not getting better right now. You know, that's really upsetting to a young girl.

But if you can

just say, Hey, you know what? You're b you're growing. This is a huge, huge transition for you as an athlete. We just have to you just have to ride it out. You're gonna be fine. And we can focus on some other things. Maybe it's doing some adding some resistance training.

Learning how to do that technically well. You know, like there's so many things a young girl can benefit from without having the heaviness of like, no, I'm not I'm gonna miss out on making this team because I'm not tracking well.

Paul Laursen (14:41)

Mm-hmm. Julia, I'm re I'm reflecting on your presentation that you that you gave. And one of the things that you I remember you mentioned was around the around the menstrual cycle and its importance of being almost a bit of a barometer or you know, a yeah, a barometer, a measure that we should kind of consider reflecting back to the health of the athlete. and I think that's n maybe not something that

all athletes, parents, or coaches necessarily know about, right? There's there's an old that there's even like a comment that was in the past where you know if you if you're getting if you're still getting your your period, well you're probably not training hard enough, right? Like that's that I think that's old school, but that's that that's still prevalent some places, I would imagine. So why is that not the case?

Julia (15:35)

Yeah.

Yeah, so totally. the menstrual cycle is a measure of a female's health. And so if there's something abnormal, it's important to get that further investigated. otherwise if you're training an unhealthy athlete, we all know that doesn't end well. Right? So,

What is abnormal for a teen girl? Well, if if they're 15 and they still haven't had their first period, that's abnormal and that's something that needs to be investigated.

Other things that are abnormal would be having heavy bleeding and pain during their period that is impacting their everyday life. So, what could that look like? maybe the first one or two days of their period, they're in so much pain with cramps that they actually just want to be in bed all day. And and maybe the mom also had that, so it's normal to her. But

that's actually abnormal and that's there's things that can be done to help that girl and and that's worth investigating and getting some support with from like a a gp might be able to help a a woman's health specialist those kinds of things sometimes gps don't know

And and you you send them to the you send an athlete to a GP that's they missed their period for three three months, which is another abnormal thing. So if if a girl has been having their period and it's been three months and they haven't had it, then that's a red flag. They need to go see the doctor. But I've had I've had athletes, parents say, we we went to our doctor, they haven't had their period for four months, and the period the doctor said, don't worry, it will it will eventually come back.

You know, so it's it's knowing t where to get the right help.

So, ideally, a doctor that works with athletes, like that has some awareness of these things. other things that are abnormal would be bleeding for eight days or more. And the last one are are having a having a period every 21 days or less. That's that cycle length is a bit too short, and there's something going on there. so knowing the signs of of yeah, have they lost their period? Do they have an abnormal cycle, or have are they old old?

enough to get their period like 15 or older and they still haven't had it. and and if if we're if we're missing those things, especially around the the loss of period or not getting a period, girls are at risk of of reducing their bone mineral density.

at at such a critical time in their growth and and if they miss out if their bone mineral density is reduced because of this hormone dysfunction they for their lifetime will have a lower bone mineral density and could be more at risk of of fractures, stress fractures and more on the the the line of like osteoporosis which is is a big deal.

So this is why, this is why, like coaches, especially male coaches that think, you know what, I don't really want to go there. It's so important because the training that you do, if you're giving a young girl too much training and they're not fueling enough, they could lose their period and they could have it could have a real detrimental impact on their bone mineral density. that can impact for them for their lifetime. Right? So it's it's worth, it's so worth talking about. And not only the bone mineral density side of thing and fracture.

risk, but also just hormonal health for their lifetime. So like I know I know athletes that, you know, were always super lean and had issues with their period and maybe losing their period. And and by the time they are wanting to have kids, they have a hard time. They might need help getting pregnant or they might not be able to get pregnant. And that's you know, I know teen girls aren't thinking about that kind of thing at at their age, but

Marjaana Rakai (19:40)

Mm.

Julia (19:50)

But like us as adults, the coaches and the parents that are chaperoning them and like, you know, we've got we gotta think bigger picture for them.

Marjaana Rakai (19:58)

Yeah.

I wanna talk about bone mineral density and what you can do as a coach for the youth athletes. But I wanna ask you one thing because like you mentioned it already, but it can be really difficult to take this up as is as a coach or a parent with your youth athletes, but especially as a a male coach. How how do you recommend male coaches approach parents or the girls?

themselves to open up the floor to talk about puberty and and the changes.

Julia (20:35)

Yeah. I'll give you an example from a coach.

A young a young coach who was Olympic swimmer and say let's say he's he was like late twenties and he was starting to to be a coach for the high performance development squad for the surf life saving team that he was working with. And they were all girls, really competitive teenage girls. And he came to the and and did the her strength course. And after the the module on menstrual cycle, he just called a meeting with the team.

Your period is really important to be healthy and the menstrual cycle. And this is something that we can talk about in this environment. These are the things to be aware of. if you have problems with your cycle, you can talk to me and we can adjust your training, or your parent can talk to me. And and we've got period products now. They they he ordered like a special dispenser in the bathroom of the Surf Life Saving Club that they would have stocked up so they could always have them.

And you know, when you do something like that, it doesn't, you know, it could be a five-minute conversation, even. Like the parents and the coaches are like, Whoa, thank you. Thank you so much. Like, I'm so impressed you said something. And and you know, every girl is gonna be different about how much they're gonna want to talk about this or not, but you will get girls where they talk about this at home and they're comfortable talking about it. And and the the girls that

Paul Warloski (21:43)

Yeah.

Paul Laursen (21:53)

Yeah.

Marjaana Rakai (21:54)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Julia (22:13)

Are not comfortable talking about it are gonna see them and be like, they're talking about it, and actually I'm having the same problem as them. And you know, it it catches on and it doesn't take much. So if you know it is possible that a male coach really still, even after getting educated and having some some tools available, doesn't want to go there. There's always a female.

involved somewhere that could could be the chap the the champion of of this space. You know, maybe it's an assistant coach, maybe it's a parent, maybe it's a physiotherapist or the team manager, and it's just like, hey, I don't feel comfortable comfortable talking about this kind of stuff, but I think you'd be in a good position. Do you mind us together getting getting the team together and having this conversation opened up? So there's there's always an option.

Marjaana Rakai (22:46)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Paul Laursen (23:06)

Amazing.

Marjaana Rakai (23:08)

Yeah.

Paul Laursen (23:10)

So I mean I'm mindful of your time, Julia. I just wanted to highlight one of the amazing things that came out of your presentation in Revelstoke is I'm we're back in the kitchen. Kaya has all of her friends that are there and they watch the presentation and then they're they're all joking back with me and they're as they're making a snack and they're and they're like, see Paul?

Protein, carbohydrate, fat, we got it all here. And and so your talk on the nutrition, it's the other arm n of of the training load, right? With the energy balance ultimately, right? It's not just about the the training load that the coach might be controlling, but it's also the athletes and the parents, maybe the coaches themselves, that are also looking at the other side of that energy balance and not just energy macros, but all the micros that come with those. And you know, again, you're

Your presentation was so impactful to the community and just to have the girls mocking me like that and they they ta they took the message home and they and and they were acting on on your on your message and they recognized its importance and I just loved it. So I don't know if you want to expand on that just a little.

Julia (24:15)

Yeah, that's that's awesome to hear. Thank you for sharing that. yeah, we in in in this presentation that I gave in Revelstock that that prof is talking about, I yeah, wanted wanted to keep messaging for teen girls really simple. We we don't want them overcomplicating food or getting fixated on measuring things and and worrying about what they're eating. We just want them to

learn how to fuel themselves well with quality food, whole food, and have a balanced diet and and have it

accessible and and like they'll be fine, right? So yeah, the one of the messaging and this this actually comes from from Dr. Syl Sylvia Gerdica who is the the s the dietitian that that does all of the nutrition things for her strength and and her thing that she uses with teen athletes is called PFC eating. So at every meal you should have a protein, a carbohydrate and a fat. And and that that is going to

Help.

you through your day be ready for anything. And if you are missing, if you're it's really it's so easy in our society with quick quick food options to be missing the protein and the fat. But the protein and the fat are actually our source of of the micronutrients that are needed for for our brain, for our skin, for our immune function, for all these things and for just for for more steady energy and not having these ups and downs with our blood sugar levels throughout the day.

So it's it's having that balance.

makes them better able to study, makes them recover better. It's gonna prepare them for their training session after school if you can try to make sure you have that protein, fat, and and carbohydrate at at each meal. It's a simple, it's a simple message, but if you if we get athletes and coaches and parents to look at, you know, tell me at your breakfast, like how'd you go for breakfast? Did you have PFC? And a lot of them will be like, actually, no, I didn't. I just

Paul Laursen (26:31)

Well it's it's it's working. and again it was so cool to see it see it actually in action. and again, props to the Her Strength course. These are the types of you know, tools that that are that are on offer there. And yeah, again that's why we're we're honored to be partner with you at Her Strength and w and and you know, with Hit Science as well. So yeah, incredible work you're doing.

Marjaana Rakai (26:29)

Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Laursen (26:57)

Which so so important like for society and not enough people doing this as you as you identified. And yeah, it's just kudos to you, Julia. Well done.

Julia (27:09)

Thank you.

Paul Warloski (27:10)

Julia, where can people find out more about her strength and the work you're doing?

Julia (27:14)

Yeah, so at our website her strength dot co

also following us on Instagram or Facebook. We're on both those platforms. If if you're a parent or a coach wanting to learn more, you can sign up for free insights and and we have you know information but really practical tools that you can apply each time we send something out. So it's it's really for me, it's about about seeing behavior change. So you know, the girls recognizing

when they're eating, look, you know, look at look what we've done here. We we've hit all our macronutrients by having a balanced snack or a balanced meal. It's it's about simple things that can make a big difference.

Paul Laursen (28:02)

Yeah, and keeping g keeping girls in sport because I mean that that that statistic is crazy and and so underreported and again many of us are like like myself prior, we was was ignorant to that that statistic and we need to do something about it. And there is you know, I talk to MJ about this all the time. There's a huge yeah, movement that that's happening in this space.

And what did you say about the you y you were saying can't just be a movement, right? It's gotta be it's a moment. It's no, it's it it's not just a moment, it's a movement. Is that right? Did I get it? There we go. I think I get there somewhere. So let's yeah, let's get on board.

Julia (28:37)

Yeah.

Marjaana Rakai (28:37)

Exactly. You nailed it, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's

Paul Warloski (28:38)

Yeah.

Marjaana Rakai (28:42)

a movement.

Paul Warloski (28:45)

Well thanks, Julia. We appreciate your time today.

Julia (28:49)

thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to get to to chat with the three of you.

Paul Laursen (28:53)

Yeah, it was awesome. It's awesome. You're amazing.

Paul Warloski (28:53)

Good.

Thanks for listening today to the Athletes Compass Podcast. Take a moment now, subscribe, share, and let's keep navigating this endurance adventure together. Improve your training with the science-based training platform Atletica and join the conversation at the Athletica Forum. For Dr. Julia Casadio Marjaana Rakai, and Dr. Paul Laursen I'm Paul Warloski and this has been the Athletes Compass Podcast. Thank you so much for listening.