Hi everybody. Welcome to Orange Hatter. Today you're listening to part two of my conversation with Jules. You mentioned earlier that you did a Bitcoin camp for your daughter and her friends. Can you tell us a little bit about that and how it went?

Yeah. I was very encouraged by your story of the home camp homeschooling. This summer, I said, we're not gonna do any camps. We'll just do stuff at home and you know, we'll spend time together and teach, I'll teach you about Bitcoin. And a couple of her friends also wanted to do it. So yeah, it was actually really, it was really fun. Before I talked about Bitcoin, I talked about money. What is money? What do you think about money? And kind of went through, you know, different exercises of, like, doing bartering and how inefficient that is. And then how did money evolve? And then, um, just talked about kind of going through the history of, like, using shells as money and then coin and then how that got debased and how it was inconvenient and it went to IOU, like paper being traded for gold or whatever, gold or silver, whatever it was. And then that went into being used as currency. And then talked about the dollar and how it used to be backed by gold, but now it suddenly wasn't. And I went through all that and went through the whole, what did the dollar cost, or what did dollar... what was the purchasing power of the dollar back in 1914 from the start of the reserve to now. And they were pretty shocked by that. Talked about the, uh, the fractional reserve banking and did some exercises around that. And, and they really, they were pretty engaged. And the thing that, I think that, really like struck them was how the system is getting the poor, poorer... and the rich richer. And I think they, they could kind of see sense that. And so now they kind of see, okay, because of inflation and all this money creation, you know, people that can't afford to have assets, they just have to work harder and harder to kind of keep up. Whereas the people that can afford assets, you know, they, they're, they're winning and they're getting richer. So I think that really struck them as something that's not fair. Yeah, so I, I kind of saw, like, the light bulb go off with that. And then we talked about Bitcoin, and then we talked about, well, this is, this is one of the reasons Bitcoin was created... was to have a hard commodity that's not manipulated, has a hard cap, and also to have transactions without needing banks or any intermediaries. And then we started playing your, the HODL UP game. And one of the things we talked about was, um, how to approach, how to approach complicated things, which is like, you gotta see the big picture. There was a book that I had just read and it, she laid it up pretty clearly. It's called "Bitcoin Clarity" by Kiara Bickers. I don't know if you've read that. So, she talks about systematic thinking and how you have to kind of answer the question "why" first... and then you get into concepts and then, like, the technical details. I think people get overwhelmed by Bitcoin because it's so technical. And then once you focus on one thing, it's like, you know, you just kind of get lost. So, I mean, I know that's happened to me where I just felt like, I'm not technical, I don't know how to do this. But I, I think when I got into it, it, I did get into it because of like the big "why". Like, I need a store of value, I need something that's not manipulated. And so that kinda helped me. I think approaching it this way with the kids really helped. Like why, why was Bitcoin created? And then, um, and then we kind of said, okay, and then there's like all these technical things that you should understand at some point if you wanna like, really trust it and know why it works. But, um, so I thought that was like a good way to kind of talk... to play the game... was here's a, you know, we talked about the big "why" for like a week. We talked about money and banks and, and then, and then at the end of the week we played the game and said, okay, these are all the different things that help Bitcoin work. And it was like just a fun way to, you know, introduce different topics and they really got into it, and they got really competitive. Of course, I won. I remain the Bitcoin queen. But, um, um, they got really competitive and, and then at the end of the game we said, I said, you know, what do you, what do you guys want to talk about next? We could talk about like something more technical, which is hard, but, you know, if you take it piece by piece, it might not be so hard. So they actually wanted to talk about mining. So we talked about that the next week. So, yeah, so I think... so we kind of had to put it on pause because some of the girls were going on vacation and it was just getting, you know, they had some other stuff going on. So I think next time we'll kind of approach it the same way as... what, what topic do you wanna talk about next? One of the girls kind of mentioned she wants to learn about hashing. So, um, yeah, so I think we could talk about that next, but yeah, it was, it was actually really fun. I think the girls really enjoyed it.

Good, good. So, how old are these girls?

They're ,12.

12. Okay. And how long was each session each day?

So, um, the Bitcoin part was two hours. And then, uh, one of the girl's mom was a teacher, so she wanted to do, like, a reading and writing curriculum. So she did that for like two hours. So the Bitcoin part was only two hours.

Okay. I'm just asking because for someone who's listening to it who wants to create something similar, I'm just trying to give her, like, a general framework. So two hours at a time, discussion/activities. And how long did it go for? Like how many days?

It went for about a week and a half. So we just finished yesterday. And then, um, so we're gonna put on pause for now, but um, yeah, I think we might resume when things settle down a bit.

So, I'm actually surprised that kids that age are interested enough to want to dig deeper. So I wanna just try to figure out what you did to keep their interest, because money as a topic is not very interesting to most kids who are 12 years old. How did you keep their attention?

I there's a, um, program online called Mi Primer Bitcoin. I should, I should thank them. Um, they're El Salvador. It's, but it's a very long, 10 week course, so I just took what I thought might be interesting and simple. And they have a lot of exercises and videos on there, so I kind of pulled from that. Um, and they really enjoy the videos. The videos were good and the exercises, I think, kind of make things relevant. And I think, I mean, I think because they don't talk about this stuff... like, what is money? And it's a huge part of their lives. I mean, they're now like going shopping and stuff and, um, they don't learn about this stuff at school. So they were pretty interested.

So you, it sounds like you've been in the Bitcoin space for a few years now, poking around. What have you noticed in this space when it comes to women? Because obviously this podcast was created to reach more women. What have you noticed? What do you think we can do as women Bitcoin to reach more women who are not Bitcoiners yet?

Yeah. I'm so glad you did this podcast because it's, I think it's so important. So I, I do the local meetups, uh, around my house. And, um, yeah, there's always, I mean, last, last meetup, there was no... one other woman. And, um, usually it's like one or two other women and it's always somebody's, like, girlfriend or wife. I don't know what it is. I mean, I, I, you know, I talk about Bitcoin all the time. I have a big group of friends... and I mean, there's a few that kind of get interested and then it's, like, done. And, you know, I always encourage them to come to these meetups and like, maybe one or two have come. And I don't know what it is. Like I, I, I think maybe it's, um, most of my friends are married. Maybe they don't feel like they have the... like they, they kind of leave it to their husband to make the money decisions... which, which I, you know, is totally valid. Like, when I was married, I totally let my husband do all the, you know, money investment decisions and... So maybe they feel like they don't, they don't feel like they have that responsibility or want that responsibility. You know, because I'm, I'm single, like, I had to make those decisions and had to make decisions of how to invest. And maybe that's why it's different for me versus my friends. I don't know. I, but I think it shouldn't be. Um, I have a really, I have, like, one of my best friends is a Bitcoiner woman. She's also single. So, you know, we're talking about it, we're like, I don't know why more women are not in Bitcoin. But you know, we're speculating, maybe it's because they feel like they don't... they can't convince their husband so... or they don't feel like that's their realm of decision making? I don't know.

I have been asking myself that same question. I feel... okay, so this is my, my very unresearched conclusion, just based on my observations. I feel like, like what you said, if they're married, mostly, you know, when you have a household, you kind of divide and conquer, right? Because you've got so many things to take care of. And men take on the responsibility for finances, and then women take on the responsibility for raising their kids and keeping house and things like that. And so I think that's one reason. Another reason, I'm guessing, is I feel like so many stars have to align for people, at least in our country, in the United States, to feel the need to explore it. Um, you come from a background where you became skeptical of the value of all the work that you've put in. Scott and I come from the background of, we've gone through the whole corporate route and we have been very disillusioned by the promise that we, we envisioned when we went to business school. So we've been disillusioned, and I feel like in some ways you've been disillusioned. So, if you've been disillusioned by the traditional system, you start asking questions, and inevitably you're going to find Bitcoin, because it is there for all to see. It's limited supply, you have privacy, you have self custody, self re... self sovereignty. Like you said, you're responsible for yourself. You find it, if you're looking for it. But if you are... if you haven't gone through that process of becoming disillusioned... if everything has worked out for you, you've gone to law school and you've really enjoyed your law practice, and you've invested in real estate and that's doing well, then there's almost no reason for you to look for anything else. And when we talked to, when Scott and I talked to women who are overseas, they have more, there are more of them who had been disillusioned by the system that they're living in. Whether it's through hyperinflation or just corruption in the government. They have been looking for something else, and so they find Bitcoin. So there are more people overseas finding Bitcoin, I think, because they've been disillusioned by their, their own experience. So for us to reach women here... I mean, this is obviously my way of sharing stories. I feel like a lot of women are on the fence because they're curious, but they, you know, like... they say, if, if you are in a difficult situation, and you know, zero is really comfortable and 10 is so bad that you have to make a change... if you're at an eight or nine, you're still not gonna change. So in my mind, the people who are sitting on the fence, they might be experiencing a seven, eight, or nine, but I'm hoping our discussion will help them reach a 10, and then they'll hop off the fence and start asking questions. Because once you start asking questions, the whole world opens up to you, right? We are all, every Bitcoin in the Bitcoin space is just more than happy and waiting to share the good news with people. But most of the times when we say, "Hey, can I tell you about Bitcoin?" they put up their hand and go, "no thanks", "I'm good", youknow, "it's just a scam", or "I've already missed the boat". I hear that a lot. "I've already missed the boat. It's too late. I better go look for another coin that's just starting up that costs 1 cent, and then I'll get rich with that." You know, kind of thing. So that's sort of the way that I have experienced talking to people who are what I call pre-coiners. Um, so yeah, that's, that's my 2 cents worth of analysis. Amateur analysis.

Yeah. Yeah. That, that's true. I mean, I think most people will make... I mean, I'm, I think, for me, for my group of friends, like they're very comfortable. And the, the system has worked for them. So, it's... why try something different or why look elsewhere? So maybe that's, yeah. So I agree. So, um, maybe that's one aspect.

Yeah, exactly. Or they're just so busy with trying to survive in the system. You know, they're working two jobs, one to earn and one to keep what they earn, that they don't have any more bandwidth to explore an alternative. So yeah, we, if we are just ready to help them, they will come find us. And this is sort of our broadcast to people out there. If you're ready and when you're ready, this is where we are, kind of thing. Thank you for joining us today. We will continue this conversation tomorrow. Be sure to come back and hear the rest. See you next time.