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Klaus Kleinfeld: Nashville
Tennessee. Okay, that's very

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nice.

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Adam Outland: Where in Germany?
Did you grow up again? Or was

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it...

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Klaus Kleinfeld: I was born in
Bremen, but I left when I was

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18, and my parents were refugees
from East Germany. Currently,

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I'm outside of New York.

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Adam Outland: Well, uh, ich bin
ein actor Berliner.

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Klaus Kleinfeld: Oh wunderbar,
let's start with that. So, how

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come you speak German?

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Adam Outland: Both my parents
were opera singers, and they're

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us, born in the US, but they
live 14 years in Bonn and

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Cologne.

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Klaus Kleinfeld: And they
performed there at the.... does

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cologne. Cologne has an opera
house?

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Adam Outland: It does, yeah,
yeah. My dad performed locally

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at the Cologne Opera House. Bond
had an opera house still does.

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And my mom performed there, and
then she, she had an

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international career after that,
and performed all over.

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Klaus Kleinfeld: I love opera.
I'm also on the Metropolitan

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Opera board, you know, so I just
love it. Yeah, lovely,

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absolutely lovely. And bond at
the time probably still was the

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capital of Germany, right?

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Adam Outland: Yes, yeah. My dad
and mom would sometimes perform

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in Berlin during that period.
And the way they were paid was,

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it was always interesting, and
you always wondered if your pay

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would would make it back across
to the other side.

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Klaus Kleinfeld: What were they
paid with gold coins?  It's

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interesting, yeah. I mean, I
went to Nuremberg, or my first

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place of work. Then from
Nuremberg, I went to

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Switzerland, you know, worked
there in the pharmaceutical

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industry, back to Munich, and
there I started my career with

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Siemens, you know. And then
Siemens moved me to to Erlangen.

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And then from Erlangen, I was
asked to go to New York, then I

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was asked to come back to
Munich. And then after that, I

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decided to leave Siemens, and I
came back to New York. And when

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I co headquarter was in New
York, you know, so which most

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people don't know, because the
presence was usually in

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Pittsburgh.

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Adam Outland: You know, when you
were a young man, though, did

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you did you already envision
this, this path towards

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administrative leadership of of
major companies? Or were you in

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it for the details of the
science?

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Klaus Kleinfeld: And yeah, so
no, I did not. I did not imagine

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that. In fact, I enjoyed
learning. I mean, I've always

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been curious and wanted to want
to learn more. I enjoyed being

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in the outdoors, doing stuff I
only later realized I was forced

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into working when I was 12. Was
my first paying job, you know,

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because my father died. So when
I was so, so little, you know,

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but I enjoyed it. I mean, I
enjoyed working in core

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business. You know, for me, it
was making money, but it's also

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something that I I started to
really like, you know, making

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things, doing things, you know,
so to be I always enjoy being

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with people, and I also enjoyed
complicated problems, you know.

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So in the early days, I would
have thought I stay in academia

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and and make an academic career,
because I saw what some of my

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friends who studied with me,
when who went into business,

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what type of jobs they had. And
I thought that I wasn't

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interested in that, you know.

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Adam Outland: And so, I mean, 12
I just, I gotta spend a minute

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on this, and then we can, what
could a 12 year old do?

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Klaus Kleinfeld: Well, first of
all, it's illegal to employ a 12

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year old, you know. But, but,
but the local supermarket, first

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of all, I was fortunately
relatively tall at a young age

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already, so they never asked me
for a passport, you know. So

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they, they needed somebody who
refills the the racks, you know,

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and and ideally comes in early
in the morning, and changes also

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the fresh goods, milk and stuff,
you know, before the supermarket

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opens, and be there on the
weekends, you know, and where

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there was a lot of traffic, you
know. So, so I did that, and

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they paid me two Deutsche marks
an hour. Made my first money.

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The motive was very simple. I
wanted a new bike, for instance.

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So things like, things I want to
does a 12 year old one, you

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know, you want a nice bike. And
very early on, then also, I

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started to love music. So then
it became records, you know, I

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was very intrigued by this thing
that had just gotten started,

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called software as as a as a
individual, there was no way you

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could have a computer. It didn't
exist, you know, even the the

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thought of it was insane, you
know. So I wanted to, I wanted

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to get my hands on a computer
and do programming. And at

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gutting, there were only two
locations where I could program.

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One was where the physics.
Department. And the other one

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was with the economics
department, you know. And I

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decided to start with the
economics department, you know.

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And and immediately got into
software writing, which I

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enjoyed tremendously.

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Adam Outland: You speak to this
a little bit in your book. And

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maybe this is a good opportunity
to take, take a principle out of

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the story, your ability to or
one's ability to untangle a

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problem. It's a good visual
image because they're like nuts

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in business, and the knots are
sometimes created because of a

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communication issue. Sometimes
they're created because of a

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strategy issue, but what was a
procedure that you found most

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helped you untangle the knots in
business?

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Klaus Kleinfeld: Asking
questions. I think, I think that

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I don't think I was shy asking
questions and and I even today,

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and I think friends who have
worked with me, and what, even

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those who are not friends who've
worked with me, would say,

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closes a hypothesis generating
machine, you know, because I

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always try to verify or falsify
and find, find a course and, and

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I'd like to drill down to the
bottom, you know, to really

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understand how the mechanics
work. Because that did me also

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well, already in school, you
know, when you understand the

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principle, then you don't have
to learn much, you know, you can

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deduct everything from the
principle. And in a way that

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helped me a lot, you know,
because I also had to be very

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efficient with my time, because
I had to do other things like

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work, you know, where other
people could spend the time

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doing homework or whatever, you
know, I use logic, you know. So

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that's the one thing that you
can't have fault, you know. So

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I, first of all, I'm I don't
think there is such a thing than

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a than a wrong question. And
also, you also have to remind

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people that they should talk to
you in non expert language,

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because way too often have I
seen that expert language is a

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way to hide behind and very
often, certain terms that have

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been coined in the expert world
describe the phenomena,

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phenomenon in a limiting way. I
mean, language is a limiting

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thing. That's one of the reasons
why you see there are large

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differences in languages, like,
for instance, the Australian

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aborigines when they describe
the different kinds of red, you

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know, because they live in an
environment, if you ever been in

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Australia and fly over it, it's
red. The same with the Eskimos.

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They have gazillions of words
for snow, whereas we say it's

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snowing and the snow is a snow
there. Yes, you know. So. So I

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always believe that you have to
be careful in in accepting this

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terminology, because it might
actually prevent you from

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finding the real issue. So I
asked them to explain it to me

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in plain language, and I would
continue if they use terms, I

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would not be shy to say, Can you
please explain how you use the

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term? What does that term mean?
Then, then you get it, you know.

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And very often people then say,
word classes is complicated,

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because if somebody tells me
it's complicated, I mean, but

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first I would say, we're in a
very friendly way, yes, please

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explain. I have time, you know.
Because that's the other thing

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that they would say, oh, takes
too much time, you know. And

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say, no, no, I have all the
time. I want to understand. What

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is this, you know? Why don't you
explain it? You know? But very

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often, you see very quickly that
they can't explain it, then you

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find, then very often, flaws in
the logic. The moment you have

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flaws in the logic, you say, why
did that individual, who's

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supposedly the expert and not
not ask these questions? Maybe I

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have to get some other people
looking into this. Or maybe I

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have to drill even further here.

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Adam Outland: You know, this
brings it to mind another

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question where I feel that this
strength of yours played out,

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which is that there's, there's
really only been, I think

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yourself, that's, that's Captain
multiple companies at the CEO

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level on different continents
that are in the Fortune 500

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right? There's two companies
that you've led as a CEO on two

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different continents, and that
really hasn't been done before,

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and one was US based, and one
was German. So, you know, I

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think about the cultural and
language differences between two

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different countries, what did
you find from a leadership

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standpoint, as how you had to
adapt?

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Klaus Kleinfeld: Yeah, I think
that, yes, there are a lot of

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differences, but the
fundamentals are similar. You

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know, because we all as human
beings have some fundamental

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principles that we live by. How
we interpret certain things is

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different, you know, but get the
fundamentals is, everybody wants

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respect. And I mean respect
comes to simple things,

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listening to somebody, you know,
asking, you know, their opinion,

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you know, being thankful when,
when they do something. So these

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type of behaviors are, I think,
unilateral, all around the

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world. You have to learn, you
know, what, what exactly what

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means. You know, certainly the
most tricky thing is sign

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language, very I would advise
everybody to be very, very

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cautious on this, you know, very
carefully. Can get you into real

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trouble if you think that you
know the sign language and

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suddenly realize it means
something not so nice to their

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sign word, you know. But those
are little things. Those are

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little things you know, that you
learn. And overall, I think the

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commonalities, particularly when
it comes to leading people, are

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bigger than the differences. One
other principle is that I always

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try to go as close to the source
where the issue originated.

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Because you very often you have
filter processes. I mean, the

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higher you get, the more filter
theoretical filter processes you

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have, and to really understand
what is going on, you know. I

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mean, I would always go to the
source, you know, and literally,

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to the person who is standing at
at the machine, you know, where

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something is going wrong, and
understanding what exactly are

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you observing that gets lost in
translation, you know. I mean at

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a certain level you I mean, you
don't even talk to a head of the

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to the head of the factory
anymore. You talk to the

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division head, you want to make
sure that you really, really go

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down to the core.

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Adam Outland: It very rarely is,
is someone's life just pure

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accelerated growth. There's
plateaus, there's down curves,

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because you've had such
extraordinary success, not just

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in arriving in leadership at a
company, but helping companies

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really scale and grow. What have
been some of those plateau

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moments that presented real
challenges for you personally?

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Klaus Kleinfeld: The first kind
of wake up call shock was when

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my father died and I was 10, you
know, and basically life, our

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life, my life, became a very
different life then, because it

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made me ask a lot of very
fundamental questions. You know,

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the next one, the next biggest
one, was when, after 20 years,

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you know, 20 plus years, I
decided to leave Siemens

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because, I mean, obviously after
20 years, you have a lot of

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friends there, you have a lot of
memories, you know, you feel at

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home. But I decided to that's
not that the environment was

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just not worth for me to stay
on, you know. And I move very

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difficult, very, very difficult,
you know. And then there's a ton

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of others, you know, when you
when you have to restructure a

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certain and you you know that
that how many families are

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affected by it. And you know, at
the same time, if you don't do

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it, you'll risk that everybody
will get affected by it. I mean,

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so by making that you can at
least save the core, I hope that

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you can save the core, and you
can never be certain you know

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whether it works out or not. So
you you've done the best you

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can, you've got all the facts
together, and you hope that it

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will work out after you've done
your your best. And there's

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really nobody who as a leader.
There's really nobody who

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carries the burden other than
you, and at least that's my

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that's been my view of
leadership. You know, when I

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when I take it on, I'm
accountable and I live with the

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consequences and I stand up for it.

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Adam Outland: Yeah. And you
know, you, you mentioned quite a

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bit around energy, you know,
where it stems from, but also

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how you can recognize which
quadrant you're in in that

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moment, one of those quadrants,
I think you you've labeled as

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the burnout quadrant. It's, what
was it? Low Energy, and what was

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the other variable?

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Klaus Kleinfeld: Low energy and
negative, you know, so, so

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burnout is basically your toast,
yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's

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an interesting one. Let me take
a step back, you know, I've

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always driven for efficiency,
you know, because I also never

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had time had to do stuff, you
know. So I was always driving

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for efficiency. I always thought
it's willpower, good German

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willpower, boom, boom, boom,
plow through, you know. So until

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one day, I realized it's all
about energy and why? How did I

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realize that? I realized it very
straight. It came relatively

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late in my leadership life, you
know. So when I realized the

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following phenomenon I saw
around me, people really getting

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burned out, you know? I also saw
that not only older people, but

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younger people got burned out,
you know. And I thought, wow,

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what is this? And then I love
playing tennis. Wish I could

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play better, but I love it, you
know. And in the tennis world, I

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saw another phenomenon. They got
older and older and older the

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top performers. So I was
thinking, What on earth is going

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on there? You know, in the end,
it's all about performance,

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whether you're in business or
whether you're in tennis you

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know, all about performance. How
come that there's this

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dichotomy, you know? So I
started looking into it, you

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know, as a curious person, you
know, I want to learn more about

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it, you know. How can a tennis
player, you know, who has no

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time to recover, really, you
know, just 20 seconds between

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the serves? How can they do
that? And how can they do it at

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such a late age. And I realized
that in this whole high

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performance scene, the concept
of energy had been introduced,

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and that they were not talking
about time management or

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whatever on the court. They were
talking about, how do you

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recharge, how do you keep your
energy? How do you get

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resilience? And then I started
my own journey and trying to

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figure out what is energy. What
gives me energy? And I realized

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it's the old thing of body, mind
and soul. The body I understand,

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you know, but then on the mind
is basically mental and

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emotional, and then on the
spiritual side. Nobody even

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talks about the spiritual sides,
but those are the things there

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are no more. Those are the
things that give us energy, and

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they can also drain energy.
There's a flow in this, because

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you burn in the morning, you get
up, you have a full tank of

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energy, typically, if you have
slept relatively well, you know,

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and then you burn it through.
So, and there are a lot of

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tricks, you know, that the high
performance players have

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learned, and leaders can learn
the same thing. Leaders can

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learn absolutely the same thing.
So in the end, we are even more

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high performance athletes, you
know, then, then the tennis

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players. Because the tennis
player after the game or after a

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tournament, they have a time
where they can go somewhere

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else. We are on 24 hours, or 25
hours, eight days a week. It

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feels almost, you know. So that
got me into this. And in regards

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to the zones, it's relatively
simple. You know, you want to be

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in performance zone. You know,
performance zone is where you

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have high energy, positive, but
then life happens, you know. So

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what do you do? Panic, you know.
So you immediately go into what

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I call survival zone, by the
high energy, but but negative,

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you know. So what do you do now?
What do you do now? You know,

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you have to find a mechanism how
you quickly get back into

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performance zone. The first
thing when you go into survival

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zone. It's very good. And the
human body is made for this,

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because it's a flight or fight
response. We get adrenaline. Our

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focus goes like this. We get
superpowers. The only thing is

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that the superpower lasts for an
hour, for two hours maximum, and

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then you drop into burnout zone,
so you have to very quickly get

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back into performance zone. And
what's the trick of this? You

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know, there's a ton of tricks
mental training, you know,

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figuring out the situation, but
you have to be aware of it. You

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get back into it. So life is not
I used to think. I thought life

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is an ultra marathon. That's in
reality, your life is sprints of

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various distances, and recharge
sprints and recharge and

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recharge time. And the sprint
time is not equally, equal time,

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you know? It can be much, much
less time today there, there is

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a really simple way how you can
figure it out for yourself, you

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know. So, so, I mean, many of us
have some type of tracker, you

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know, so, and this tracker shows
me my heart rate. The heart

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rate, for me, is a super good
indicator of whether you're

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stressed or not. You know one.
The second one is breathing. If

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your breathing gets very
shallow, very fast, you know,

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then something is going on
emotionally with you. The third

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one is vision, you know, if your
vision becomes a tunnel vision,

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you know. You know, where you
only see one thing, you know,

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then you know something is going
on that is not healthy over a

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longer period of time. You know.
So, so, so there are things that

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you can learn how to observe
yourself. And I would think that

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it's very easy to learn. You
know, I don't even have to look

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at the watch, and I know
exactly, roughly, exactly where,

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where, where my heart rate is,
you know. So because somehow you

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you know your body, what, how
the body feels, you know when,

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when the heart rate is outside
of the zone that you want it to

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be in. It also requires a
certain will to change. I mean,

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certain will to first be
confronted with the realities,

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which, unfortunately, very
often. I mean, we kind of know

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that something is not right, but
in the we don't want to hear it,

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because it inflicts stress on
us, you know, but at the same

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time, then, if you are not
brutally honest with yourself.

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How often have you seen that
people have certain strange

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habits? You know?

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Adam Outland: That feedback
loop; I've interviewed numbers

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of executives and leaders, and
it's kind of a common feedback

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when you arrive at a higher
level of leadership is that the

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honesty from your team can
diminish because there's less of

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incentive directly to the person
to be directly honest with their

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superior, right? How would you
go about moderating that risk

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for those around you? Or how
would you go about making sure

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the feedback was honest, even if
it's not always what you want to

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00:19:16,140 --> 00:19:16,440
hear?

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Klaus Kleinfeld: By the way,
this is one of the big

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differences when I was asked to
move into a leadership role here

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in the US, for the first time,
it's one of the big differences

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between a German environment and
a US environment the US. I mean,

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if you as a CEO, start a
conversation and want to want a

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feedback from your team, it's
very interesting. The the team

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very often does not offer offer
feedback. They ask you

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questions. And I realize that
the reason why in the US you

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have that situation is simply
because, in the US, if you want

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00:19:50,860 --> 00:19:53,740
to fire somebody, you know the
person is gone, literally, in a

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00:19:53,740 --> 00:19:57,880
minute. And whereas in Europe
and Germany, particularly, you

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know, you can't fire the person
you know you. Know, go through a

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process, you know, because
otherwise they sue you, you

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know, and then talk with the
unions. And so, in a way, the

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perceived job security is, in
this case, is a positive, a

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positive enforcer of they are
not, they are not afraid of

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giving you feedback, even if the
feedback is against what they

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think you want to hear, you
know, whereas here, there's more

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an inclination to please, please
the boss. So it's it requires a

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little bit more of an effort.
And I would always do it in a

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one on one and say, may I ask
you to give me feedback, you

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know? And and the and learn the
rule of feedback. And the rule

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of feedback is you, you do not
respond to what the person says.

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Your response is simply, thank
you for the feedback, and that's

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00:20:50,980 --> 00:20:55,780
it. If you draw a four by two by
two, you know you basically you

352
00:20:55,780 --> 00:21:00,160
say, what do you know about
yourself and what do you not

353
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know about yourself? And you
have the second one, what do

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others know about you? And what
do others not know about you?

355
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And the interesting thing, there
is a an element there of

356
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something that others know about
you that you don't know. So what

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you do with feedback? You open
that window, and very often it's

358
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these things that you you don't
even you don't even realize you

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00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,560
know. You've adopted some
practices, you've adopted some

360
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language, you've adopted some
some evidence you know that, or

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dress you know so that people
interpret in a certain way,

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which was not your intention.
And that's why it's so important

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00:21:37,100 --> 00:21:41,020
for learning. Just look at the
Navy SEALs. I mean, they, after

364
00:21:41,020 --> 00:21:45,100
mission was done, they would
criticize what didn't go well,

365
00:21:45,100 --> 00:21:50,560
you know. And then they separate
the the feedback from the

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person. They don't say you are
an idiot. You didn't do, you

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didn't didn't do, they will say,
this went wrong. This went

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wrong. It's clear whose
accountability it is, you know,

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but it's a mutual description of
how can we get to better

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performance. So brutal, honest
feedback cultures are the

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fastest learning organizations,
as long as it comes with an

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understanding this is not about
you. This is about performance.

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Adam Outland: Yeah, so many good
things here. Accountability

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seems to be invited by top
performers. So for you know, an

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00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,420
executive that might be
listening what you know, where

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they find there's sometimes
accountability gaps for

377
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,140
themselves, right? How would you
advise them to seek

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accountability for themselves?

379
00:22:35,420 --> 00:22:37,700
Klaus Kleinfeld: Yeah, I think
in general, I believe, as we

380
00:22:37,700 --> 00:22:40,220
just talked about feedback, I
mean, you even in larger

381
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organizations, to I would highly
recommend that. And you can run

382
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this multiple times of the year.
It costs you nothing if you want

383
00:22:46,360 --> 00:22:49,600
to have it, have a real finger
on the pulse if, particularly if

384
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,120
you're going through transition
phases, if you have made an

385
00:22:52,120 --> 00:22:55,000
acquisition, you know, or you
have a major transformation

386
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,460
going through, you know. So I
would highly recommend that, on

387
00:22:57,460 --> 00:23:00,480
a personal level, I think very
often people also don't

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00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,540
understand why this is so
important. And it comes down to

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00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,080
what makes a great team. You
know, will you be able? How will

390
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,200
you be able to make a great
team? And accountability is one

391
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,800
of those five things that are
essential. You know, if you want

392
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,200
a high performance team, they
are essential. And it starts

393
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,140
with trust. You know, that's
that's the core. That's the

394
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core. You have to have trust
among your core team, you know.

395
00:23:22,100 --> 00:23:25,580
Secondly, we talked about this,
what I call conflict, you know,

396
00:23:25,580 --> 00:23:29,420
is you have to be willing to
live with conflict. By conflict

397
00:23:29,420 --> 00:23:33,740
here, I mean, it's also very
critical feedback, you know. So

398
00:23:33,740 --> 00:23:36,680
which many people interpret that
as conflict, you know, but

399
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:40,720
people have to have a capability
of that commitment is, a big

400
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,660
thing, you know. And then
accountability, you know, if

401
00:23:43,660 --> 00:23:46,480
something goes wrong and you are
committed and it's yours, it was

402
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:50,380
your work stream, you basically
say, hey, look, I mean, I did

403
00:23:50,380 --> 00:23:54,820
not do well in that moment, I
will correct that. And last one

404
00:23:54,820 --> 00:23:57,520
is basically the results. And
that's also interesting me,

405
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:01,140
something that very often is not
clear. You would not believe how

406
00:24:01,140 --> 00:24:07,800
often I see when I ask mentors,
CEOs, you know, and when I ask

407
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,520
CEOs who complain about that
their team is not doing what

408
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,220
they think they're doing, and
ask them, explain to me, what

409
00:24:14,220 --> 00:24:17,580
exactly do you want? Do you want
from them, you know? And

410
00:24:17,580 --> 00:24:21,020
interestingly, I mean, then they
go into a rant, you know, it has

411
00:24:21,020 --> 00:24:25,460
to be crystal clear. What is,
what does winning look like? The

412
00:24:25,460 --> 00:24:29,120
moment you know what winning
looks like, and you will you can

413
00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:32,240
align the team around that's
what winning looks like.

414
00:24:31,940 --> 00:24:36,131
Adam Outland: Wow, such a simple
question to remember to ask your

415
00:24:36,213 --> 00:24:37,940
team members to test.

416
00:24:37,940 --> 00:24:40,818
Klaus Kleinfeld: By the way, we
didn't talk about purpose on the

417
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,555
energy side. I miss that. I mean
purposes, this thing on the

418
00:24:44,616 --> 00:24:48,414
energy. It's a very interesting
thing, because purpose does to

419
00:24:48,475 --> 00:24:52,334
energy what laser does to light.
You know, it basically focuses

420
00:24:52,396 --> 00:24:56,193
the energy around one point. And
as you see, light is diffuse,

421
00:24:56,255 --> 00:24:59,991
you know, it's nice. You know,
the moment it becomes a laser,

422
00:25:00,052 --> 00:25:03,728
it can cut through large walls.
It can. And do anything, and

423
00:25:03,789 --> 00:25:07,587
that's like, that's what purpose
does to energy the moment you

424
00:25:07,648 --> 00:25:11,507
know what you want to achieve,
what mission you want to do. You

425
00:25:11,568 --> 00:25:15,427
know, all of your energy goes to
this one point. Visioning is a

426
00:25:15,489 --> 00:25:18,919
great exercise. And in my book,
I have a long chapter on

427
00:25:18,980 --> 00:25:22,165
purpose, because a simple
concept, yet a complicated

428
00:25:22,227 --> 00:25:25,534
concept, you know, it's a
concept that the mankind has

429
00:25:25,596 --> 00:25:27,740
struggled with as long as we exist.

430
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Adam Outland: What was your
purpose? What was the purpose

431
00:25:30,254 --> 00:25:31,340
that you landed on?

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Klaus Kleinfeld: That's the
other thing. I mean, my purpose

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00:25:33,970 --> 00:25:37,397
also changed, you know, my
purpose changed. And, I mean,

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and it's not just one purpose,
it can be multiple purposes, you

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00:25:41,373 --> 00:25:45,044
know. So my purpose, clearly,
has always been around. I want

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00:25:45,105 --> 00:25:48,776
to raise a lovely family and
have a great relationships with

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00:25:48,838 --> 00:25:52,570
my children, you know. And want
to have children, and want to

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00:25:52,631 --> 00:25:56,424
have a great relationship with
my children and also the family

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00:25:56,485 --> 00:26:00,034
of my my wife, you know, and
want to be a great husband at

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00:26:00,095 --> 00:26:04,072
the same time. I mean, when I've
been running large organizations

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00:26:04,133 --> 00:26:07,865
or even small ones, you know,
the purpose was, I want to make

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00:26:07,926 --> 00:26:11,658
this successful. And I want to
help people excel in here. The

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00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,513
people element also was always
there. Those have been constant

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00:26:15,574 --> 00:26:18,878
elements of of the of the
purpose, you know. I mean, I

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00:26:18,939 --> 00:26:22,916
love it, I change it, or I leave
it, you know. So I Yes, I needed

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00:26:22,977 --> 00:26:26,770
work originally, you know, for
for making money, you know. But

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00:26:26,832 --> 00:26:30,013
I, even then, I lived by the
principles, even then I

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00:26:30,074 --> 00:26:33,745
believed, you know, I want to
get energy from it, and I want

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00:26:33,806 --> 00:26:36,560
to feel that it serves a good
purpose for me.

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00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,129
Adam Outland: So I love what you
said, and this may, it's kind of

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00:26:39,180 --> 00:26:42,304
a great wrap up point. And if
you've you've probably seen this

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00:26:42,354 --> 00:26:45,277
quote, but it's called the
master in the art of living. In

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00:26:45,327 --> 00:26:48,451
this description, he says, the
master and the art of living is

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00:26:48,502 --> 00:26:51,475
the person that makes it so hard
to tell if he's working or

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00:26:51,525 --> 00:26:54,700
playing, because at the end of
the day, he's always doing both.

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00:26:54,700 --> 00:26:56,560
Klaus Kleinfeld: I like that.
Yeah, wonderful.

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00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:58,889
Adam Outland: So many good
lessons in here. Klaus, I know

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00:26:58,944 --> 00:27:02,465
we could probably go for another
hour, but I'll stay to our time.

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00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,825
The book was wonderful to do an
initial read through, and I'd

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00:27:05,879 --> 00:27:09,292
recommend it. Where can people
find and follow your your future

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00:27:09,346 --> 00:27:11,460
wisdom outside of what you've authored?

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00:27:11,460 --> 00:27:14,258
Klaus Kleinfeld: I don't do much
on social media. I do LinkedIn,

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00:27:14,318 --> 00:27:18,129
I mean, so my LinkedIn, LinkedIn
profile, you find me on a Klaus

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00:27:18,189 --> 00:27:22,000
Kleinfeld, and I do write these
things myself, and I do comment,

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00:27:22,059 --> 00:27:25,692
you comment also, and, yeah, so,
and the book can be found on

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00:27:25,752 --> 00:27:29,444
Amazon, you know, and on many
other platforms. There's also an

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00:27:29,503 --> 00:27:33,195
audio book around it, you know,
which I really like. I mean, I

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00:27:33,255 --> 00:27:36,887
didn't read it myself, but I
like the guy who read it, and he

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00:27:36,947 --> 00:27:40,580
has a wonderful voice. I love
it. I really love it, you know.

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00:27:40,580 --> 00:27:43,857
Adam Outland: So good, great
knowledge today, and coming from

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00:27:43,927 --> 00:27:47,762
someone who grew up in the land
of Haribo gum bears and

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00:27:47,832 --> 00:27:51,040
Beethoven, really glad to spend
time with you.

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00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,200
Klaus Kleinfeld: Well Adam,
wonderful pleasure. Yeah.

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00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:54,520
Adam Outland: Thank you so much,
Klaus.

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00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:55,300
Klaus Kleinfeld: Thank you very much.