[00:00:00] Eric Goranson: It's around the house.

[00:00:07] Gregg Holladay: There is a difference, you know, with a gas water heater. You got a 40, that's hitting the bottom of that tank, where calcium and magnesium in hard water, which, oh, 85 percent of this country has hard water, collects because gravity takes place every day and the weight of that hits the bottom of the pan.

[00:00:26] Gregg Holladay: Now, that's more critical in a gas water heater than it is to an electric water heater because the heating elements are elevated. In a gas water heater, that changes the efficiency performance by having to blow that heat through that media that's gathered like concrete, uh, and then it offsets the volume of hot water.

[00:00:44] Gregg Holladay: Whereas in an electric water heater, it just offsets the volume of hot water. The elements do attract some of that calcium and magnesium, so they, they do ice up essentially is what people see. When it comes to remodeling and renovating your home, there is a lot to know, but we've [00:01:00] got you covered. This is Around the Clock.

[00:01:04] Gregg Holladay: Welcome to the round the house show. This is where we help

[00:01:06] Eric Goranson: you get the most out of your home through information and education. Thanks for joining us today. Well, I wanted to talk today about one of the biggest costs in your home and that's called heating water. And today we've got my friend, Greg holiday from Bradford white water heaters.

[00:01:22] Eric Goranson: We're going to talk all about heat pump, water heaters. Welcome back to around the house. My friend. Oh,

[00:01:28] Gregg Holladay: welcome to my farm in Kentucky. So we're coast to coast

[00:01:31] Eric Goranson: right now. We are. And I tell you what, I think I can smell the bourbon wifting all the way over here from there. I tell you what.

[00:01:38] Gregg Holladay: Oh, I won't tell you.

[00:01:39] Gregg Holladay: I'll be at the track later this week for a PHCC event. Uh, Uh, up in Lexington. So yeah, there's some bourbon tasting in my near future and thus seeing this and smelling some horses. That's a win win. Well,

[00:01:52] Eric Goranson: I wanted to bring you on today and talk about, uh, you know, these hybrid heat pump water heaters, because you know, it was funny.

[00:01:59] Eric Goranson: What [00:02:00] was it three or so years ago? I had reached out to you and said, Hey, I'm thinking about doing an on demand water heater and you went. Are you sure about that? ? And I didn't, and I'm so happy I listened to you, my

[00:02:12] Gregg Holladay: friend. That was a different conversation because we actually have talked tankless gas water heaters, and I don't normally try to talk somebody out of a technology into something else, but I knew you didn't know much about 'em.

[00:02:25] Gregg Holladay: You just needed to hear the story and the story changes everything it does and, and no

[00:02:30] Eric Goranson: shame towards the. Towards the, uh, you know, the tankless water heaters out there. I just wanted some that was going to save me money and make sure that I had hot water and it does

[00:02:40] Gregg Holladay: both. Absolutely. And that's a story that most people just don't know is what's the efficiency of any water heater.

[00:02:48] Gregg Holladay: Even most plumbing contractors don't know. They see that little decimal number on a spec sheet that says 0. 93, and they don't know that that's the UEF, which. Is a measurement of [00:03:00] efficiency by the DOE that says that water heater is really good. It only loses 7 cents of every dollar you spend to heat water.

[00:03:06] Gregg Holladay: And then you see a gas water heater that's a 0. 60 or even a 0. 67. Now that's a water heater that loses, you know, 37 to 40 cents of every dollar. And then tankless, which I do love because tankless guarantees the dad. Never takes a cold shower. That's the purpose. But they're 0.82 to 0.97, and now you get into a heat pump water heater, and we start at 3.44 and end up at 3.64.

[00:03:34] Gregg Holladay: That means instead of losing money that I get about $3 and 60 cents for every $1 I spend the heat water. Which means by definition, it pays for itself. And that's never happened until he caught water, which came out, man,

[00:03:48] Eric Goranson: it's, it's not close on the savings. And, and it's funny because you know, I've, I've been waving the flag after putting one in my house and going, okay, this is the real deal.

[00:03:58] Eric Goranson: But, you know, one of the misconceptions I [00:04:00] see out there is, is there's people like in California and stuff and go, well, yeah, but it doesn't work when, when I'm, when I'm paying four times the electricity rates in places like California. And then I have to keep coming back to my listening audience and go, well, yeah, but your electric water heater, you're saying that same four times as much for the electricity.

[00:04:20] Eric Goranson: And I guarantee you, the natural gas isn't that cheap down there either.

[00:04:23] Gregg Holladay: Natural gas prices over the last 2 years and more than doubled and they continue to go up because California has essentially decided to unhook from the pipeline. Uh, to say we want every house, even though 93 percent of California homes have a gas water heater.

[00:04:40] Gregg Holladay: They want 100 percent of them to have electric water here. But the grid can't suck up the power that an electric water heater uses unless it's a heat pump water heater. And a heat pump water heater moves heat using only about 5. 5 light bulbs worth of energy versus 4500 watts, 45 light bulbs for [00:05:00] those.

[00:05:00] Gregg Holladay: So, you need to have a technology that won't overpower the grid that people will appreciate. Absolutely.

[00:05:07] Eric Goranson: And you know, it's funny about it too, is, is that when I'm on generator power, for instance, because we lose power from time to time here, we have wind storms and lots of trees. So that stuff happens, you know, ice storms, whatever.

[00:05:18] Eric Goranson: But to me, what's crazy is, is that thing's only using what? About 500 Watts when I'm in heat pump only mode. So I can run a lot more things in my house when I'm on generator backup power than if I had just a regular

[00:05:30] Gregg Holladay: electric water heater. It's generator friendly because all you got to do, even if you have a small generator that we all want in tub as do it yourselfers in our home so that we can be self sufficient, you can roll that generator up and power up the water heater, put it instantly in heat proof only mode, and we use 550 watts of power.

[00:05:49] Gregg Holladay: That's like a refrigerator in your kitchen does, a freezer in your garage does. Now you have hot water, even when the power is out, whereas before. It ate too much of the [00:06:00] generator up and you just couldn't do it.

[00:06:01] Eric Goranson: Well, you brought up refrigerator and freezer. That's really what this is when it comes down to it, right?

[00:06:07] Eric Goranson: I mean, people get scared of new technology and I totally understand that, but this isn't new technology. It's just technology we haven't used in heating water a lot. You're exactly

[00:06:16] Gregg Holladay: right. And this was created by, by actually a refrigeration company. GE Appliances first introduced the heat pump water heater and I worked at GE for 32 years.

[00:06:25] Gregg Holladay: So I got to do that. And the refrigerator called a refrigerator is actually a heat pump. And a heat pump says I move heat from point A to point B and a refrigerator doesn't make food cold. It makes it less warm by extracting that heat from that little box. Putting it at your feet in the floor and blowing it into the kitchen, the more heat it takes out, the colder it gets.

[00:06:45] Gregg Holladay: And so you can actually make ice. So it's an old technology refrigeration with an old technology of an electric water heater married together to create something new. In design only, but 2 old and trusted technologies, [00:07:00] and you've talked about this before. How old is the refrigerator in the garage?

[00:07:03] Gregg Holladay: Usually with the beer and the soft drinks in it and 20, 25, 30 years old. And I always ask people how many times has it been serviced? And the answer is always the same 0 never had to work. So this is reliable products being put together. Yeah,

[00:07:19] Eric Goranson: and what I like too is, is that it makes you guys stand out.

[00:07:22] Eric Goranson: And again, this isn't some commercial here. I'm just a believer of the product. But I like that you guys actually build a serviceable unit. That's not a throwaway one as well.

[00:07:32] Gregg Holladay: Absolutely. We build the only serviceable unit in indicating that even the heat pump can be replaced. I always ask people, how would you feel if you had a brand new HVAC system put in?

[00:07:43] Gregg Holladay: Two years later, it developed a compressor problem outside and the service guy came out. So we're just going to cut the lines and we're going to pick up that whole outdoor unit, put it on a trailer and take it back and bring another one out. That's not what service does. That's replacement. And that doesn't build confidence in the [00:08:00] product.

[00:08:00] Gregg Holladay: So this was designed to be fully serviceable, even though that's the least likely thing to happen when you've got a contractor that can make that repair. You know, not all plumbers can do HVAC work. We're okay with that. We've got people that we can send out. We could use your HVAC contractor, your refrigerator repairman for your appliance.

[00:08:20] Gregg Holladay: These are easy to work on if you have to, because they're up high enough that you're standing in front of it versus crawling around on the ground. Um, but it's a, it is a very, very reliable product. This product has been in the market for a total of about 13 years. Uh, Bradford white is a manufacturer that makes this product.

[00:08:38] Gregg Holladay: We actually are the only manufacturer that builds them in the United States with a union labor shop in American labor. We are so proud of that since everyone else builds outside of the boundaries of this country.

[00:08:49] Eric Goranson: Well, and the cool thing with that as well as with all the supply chain issues and everything else, when you're building an in house in your own building here in the States, you really limit those shipping issues when you're bringing them.

[00:08:59] Eric Goranson: [00:09:00] You know, otherwise people are waiting for containers to go across the ocean to get stuff here. And, uh, it's nice having a made in USA. And that to

[00:09:07] Gregg Holladay: me is also just a plus of the product as well. I would agree with that. And there are lots of supporters in the contractor business out there that see that, you know, we're, we're a manufacturer that builds these products specifically for professional installation.

[00:09:20] Gregg Holladay: And that's because proper installation on a heat pump water heater is really important since it needs something that other water heaters, electric water heaters don't need. And that's air having the right volume of air around it for it to be able to extract a little bit of heat out of is critical to making sure that efficiency stays up.

[00:09:38] Gregg Holladay: If you have any home

[00:09:39] Eric Goranson: improvement questions, give us a call toll free 833 239 4144. Around the House will be right back. Don't go anywhere.[00:10:00]

[00:10:09] Gregg Holladay: What's up? This is Dixie Dania and Satchel from Steel Panther and you are listening to Around the House with Eric G. Yeah. We love Eric G and you should too. Back

[00:10:30] Eric Goranson: to around the house show. Now, if you want to find out more about us, head over to around the house online and make sure you follow us on social media, which you can find over on Facebook, Instagram, and make sure and join our closed group around the house. Now let's get back to talking with Greg holiday from Bradford white.

[00:10:48] Eric Goranson: And we're talking water heaters and heat pump water heaters that can save you a ton of money. In that energy, you

[00:10:56] Gregg Holladay: know, we're, we're a manufacturer that builds these products specifically for [00:11:00] professional installation. And that's because proper installation on a heat pump where heater is really important since it needs something that other water heaters, electric water heaters don't need.

[00:11:10] Gregg Holladay: And that's air having the right volume of air around it for it to be able to extract a little bit of heat out of. Uh, is critical to making sure that efficiency stays up over that 3. 0 UEF to give you a little over 3 for every 1 you spend to heat water. So, contractors shouldn't just pick 1 up and say, oh, it just installs like every other water here.

[00:11:30] Gregg Holladay: Let's just jam it up against the wall and not worry about air around it. We asked them to read a little bit. And if they don't do that, we're putting a QR code right on the front. A big yellow piece of paper that says installation help click here. We make it real easy for them to know what to do. Our LEM

[00:11:47] Eric Goranson: 2 is, I had a, um, a power surge in my house, what was it, probably 18 months ago, and of course it, it took out a more, more than one electronic item in my house, and it closed, it took out the control panel on the Bradford Y unit.

[00:11:59] Eric Goranson: But you know [00:12:00] something you guys had a piece in the mail next day flying out to me and man, it was the fastest replacement parts I've had on, I think anything in my house. So you guys are the real deal when it comes to that too. And when something bad goes on that quite frankly was 100 percent out of your control.

[00:12:19] Eric Goranson: Because things happen, it, uh, man, you guys were on it and I had a new part here and I was flying well and just wasn't an issue and it's worked flawlessly ever since. We

[00:12:30] Gregg Holladay: are the contractor's best friend because we also are the only manufacturer that never closes. When it comes to tech support, as you just described, things can happen at odd hours of the day.

[00:12:41] Gregg Holladay: And since most manufacturing is on the East coast, and you live on the West coast, we never close. Somebody is there 24 hours a day, 365 days a year just to answer technical questions, just to send out parts that are needed and make sure that a contractor has a homeowner taken care of. [00:13:00]

[00:13:00] Eric Goranson: Absolutely, man. And, and that's what's cool about this is that that support is big because I tell you what, there's other companies I've dealt with and not in talking water heaters, but I don't want to talk bad about anybody there, but I've had other stuff where I'm like, Oh my gosh, I'm waiting six weeks to get parts on some because well, It's on the slow boat coming across the Pacific

[00:13:19] Gregg Holladay: and that is difficult.

[00:13:21] Gregg Holladay: You can't wait for hot water and that is one of the beauties of a heat pump water heater is that it moves heat and it creates heat. If something happens to the heat pump, it just switches to the heating elements and you're not getting the efficiency of savings during that time. You're back equal to your electric water heater that you had before.

[00:13:39] Gregg Holladay: But you have hot water. And if anything happens to the heat to the heating elements, it switches to the heat pump sides. Yes. And you have hot water, a fault code shows up in the display. We know what's going on with it just by that description. A homeowner can see that on the new app that they can put on their phone with our uh connect plus [00:14:00] module that would be installed.

[00:14:01] Gregg Holladay: And even the contractor can see that from his shop without even going out. He can get into the diagnostics and understand what's going on for it. Faster response, man. That is a

[00:14:11] Eric Goranson: dream for an apartment complex or somebody that's got a multifamily situation, or even, even your, your neighbor down the street, that's got five or six rentals around to be able to maintain that and watch it because you know, rentals, I always have something thrown at it.

[00:14:26] Eric Goranson: And that is one thing with these is you, you do have to do a little bit of maintenance, which is just like anything you got to clean an air filter every once in a while.

[00:14:33] Gregg Holladay: That's right. And it alarms and lets us know, unless the homeowner know with a slow, a little And the filter light comes on so in an apartment, the maintenance guy who might be responsible for 100 units now can have all 100 units.

[00:14:47] Gregg Holladay: On the app for his sign in, and you can have more than 1 sign in and keep adding more water here so that he gets an alert. Anytime a water heater is not operating properly. So this is going to help [00:15:00] contractors again, focusing on the delivery of hot water, which is a no negotiation point in every home in America.

[00:15:06] Gregg Holladay: We have to have we make it easy.

[00:15:08] Eric Goranson: Now, as a user, can I log onto that system there and go? Okay. I'm in heat pump all mode all the time. And then all of a sudden. I'm like, you know, I got the kids coming up for the holidays. So I'm going to have another four or five people using showers in my house. Can I put it over into what they call hybrid mode through that app?

[00:15:23] Gregg Holladay: You can, you can do all of the operations, change the temperatures from a hundred to 140 degrees, change the operating mode from heat pump only where you're never going to ding a heating element, and then put it back into a higher performance for recovery mode, the hybrid mode, so that it can, excuse me, walk through those switches automatically.

[00:15:43] Gregg Holladay: And we want to make it easy for a homeowner to even see the energy savings and in some markets, the need to program the water heater or time of use rates. If it's 4 o'clock in the afternoon, your utility says, you know, we have a high energy usage during this profile time. So we're going to [00:16:00] encourage you to not use as much electricity by charging.

[00:16:04] Gregg Holladay: 10, 15 cents more during that time. You can program as many as you want programs in there that says Monday through Friday. Do this 4 o'clock put it in heat only or turn it off for a couple of hours. If I've got a hot tank and we're not at home yet. That way you can save energy on the weekend. You might have a different profile.

[00:16:23] Gregg Holladay: They may even ask for something else in the morning later on. You can program all of those sequences from the phone and know the water heater is going to save more because most people don't know this. Water heating is the 2nd highest energy user in your home. HVAC is number 1. And they're already adaptive for programming, but water heating being number two, never had that advantage.

[00:16:45] Eric Goranson: Well, you know, there's such a trend, you're right about that, uh, you know, that usage of how, you know, okay, hey, we've got a big load right here on the, on the system. As far as the energy utilities, I mean, California, some of those guys are paying, you know. 50 cents [00:17:00] more, you know, kilowatt hour for, for energy than they were.

[00:17:04] Eric Goranson: If it, you know, from between four o'clock in the afternoon at four o'clock in the morning. So if you can control that, we're going, Hey, we're going to, we're going to go into heat pump mode here and keep this going, but Hey, we can, we can bump it up here if we need to. That's a smart way to do that. So you can control what your energy usage is.

[00:17:22] Eric Goranson: Cause that makes a huge difference when you're, you know, many times more. You know, the rates for that just being the certain time of day, that's right. It

[00:17:30] Gregg Holladay: helps the grid and it helps the homeowner to be able to manage that bill and to manage what's going to go on. I mean, to bring electric water heaters on and that word electrification, you know, back from the 40s.

[00:17:43] Gregg Holladay: Uh, 30s, 40s, 50s was a real big deal and it's come back again because we want to move to something that doesn't omit greenhouse gas emissions. And a heat pump water heater does not directly do that. That would fall on the lines of the utility and how they're producing. [00:18:00] You're in a market where most of your energy is renewable.

[00:18:03] Gregg Holladay: You know, you got some big rivers around there that generate a lot of hydro. You got some buoys bobbing back and forth out in the ocean that are generating, you got some windmills that are generating that. So your market is actually one of the best for renewable energy. Now you put a heat pump water heater in that uses 3000 less kilowatt hours a year.

[00:18:23] Gregg Holladay: It's just the right thing to do. Not because you might think you're going to save the planet. That's one element of it. But it's also, you're going to save your pocket because a heat pump water heater, on average, a 50 gallon uses about 300 less a year. That's 300 bucks

[00:18:39] Eric Goranson: in your pocket. Don't change that dial around the house.

[00:18:41] Eric Goranson: We'll be right back after these important messages.

[00:18:44] Gregg Holladay: Don't go anywhere.[00:19:00]

[00:19:01] Gregg Holladay: Hey, this is Ron Keel, the Metal Cowboy from Keel, the Ron Keel Band and Steeler. We are rocking around the house with Eric T.

[00:19:11] Eric Goranson: Welcome back to the round the house show. Now let's get back to talking with Greg holiday from Bradford white water heaters,

[00:19:17] Gregg Holladay: a 50 gallon uses about 300 less a year. That's 300 bucks in your pocket.

[00:19:23] Gregg Holladay: They have a 10 year warranty. 300 times 10 is 3, 000 in your pocket. And right now, you've got a 700, uh, utility rebate from the Oregon Energy Trust. You also have a federal tax credit that's at a level we've never seen before. It's not 300 like it used to be. It's now 30 percent of the installed cost of the water heater up to 2, 000.

[00:19:49] Gregg Holladay: And that federal tax credit has been voted in for 10 years. And you can do that with energy credits for your house every year up to 2, 000. Not a lifetime, one [00:20:00] time limit. But every year, so this is the time to put a heat pump water heater in because that is going to accelerate the payback savings of 300 a year by immediately dropping that out of pocket expense just to make the change.

[00:20:13] Gregg Holladay: Yeah, so it's a business decision. Yeah,

[00:20:16] Eric Goranson: I mean, it just makes dollars and cents. I do have a question for you. You know, I have been on and. When I lived in more rural areas where I had a well, right, and I had a fair amount of mineral deposits in there. So I was always maintaining my water heater as a every six months to a year type of thing.

[00:20:33] Eric Goranson: And I should have back then I look back and should have been conditioning my water a lot better because things would have lasted a lot longer, but you probably get a little bit of less scale bill up. Build up when you're gently heating that water versus having a flame at the bottom of that. It does that, is that something that can be considered?

[00:20:50] Eric Goranson: There is

[00:20:50] Gregg Holladay: a difference, you know, with a gas water heater, you got a 40, 000 BTU blowtorch. That's hitting the bottom of that tank. We're calcium and magnesium and hard [00:21:00] water, which Oh 85 percent of this country has hard work. Because gravity takes place every day and the weight of that hits the bottom of the pan.

[00:21:09] Gregg Holladay: Now, that's more critical in a gas water heater than it is to an electric water heater because the heating elements are elevated. In a gas water heater, that changes the efficiency performance by having to blow that heat through that media that's gathered like concrete, uh, and then it offsets the volume of hot water.

[00:21:26] Gregg Holladay: Whereas in an electric water heater, it just offsets the volume of hot water. The elements do attract some of that calcium and magnesium, so they, they do ice up essentially is what people see. But with a heat pump water heater, the hot condenser line is wrapped around the outside of the tank, never touching the water.

[00:21:44] Gregg Holladay: So the whole tank sidewalls all the way around becomes the heat exchanger. And you're not as concerned about calcium magnesium buildup there, although you should, as you said, put a water softener in. That's one of the least expensive things to do to [00:22:00] save everything that touches water in your house. You know,

[00:22:03] Eric Goranson: it's one of the things that I give people remodeling advice first.

[00:22:06] Eric Goranson: I'm like, I'm going to put in that brand new master bathroom and I'm like, awesome. Test your water first. And they look at me and go, what are you talking about? I'm like, okay, you're going to put in a 10, 000 tile shower. You're going to spend 3, 000 on a glass shower door and then put in all these really cool decorative fixtures.

[00:22:23] Eric Goranson: Do you want that to look like hell in a box six months with all that buildup on there? Go deal with your water first and then do the project so that way you're not worried about a shower door replacement every five years because it looks like it's got, you know, every lime scale buildup known to

[00:22:38] Gregg Holladay: mankind.

[00:22:39] Gregg Holladay: You are giving good advice because when water evaporates you can squeegee it off and do a pretty good job, but when water evaporates calcium and magnesium doesn't. So it stays behind the dishwasher industry. And I came out of that industry at GE appliances. That's where jet dry comes in, try to cheat the glasses real fast to get that water with the minerals in it [00:23:00] off.

[00:23:00] Gregg Holladay: So you don't get those water spots that are permanently there. And, you know, you end up with lime away and other materials trying to clean those doors. Yeah. Put a softener in, fill it twice a year, and don't think about it ever again. Yeah, it's

[00:23:14] Eric Goranson: just cheap maintenance, and then you're not having to worry about flushing out that water heater every six months because you're getting the buildup down below.

[00:23:21] Eric Goranson: And as well as, you know, your ice makers and all the other stuff that you have in your house, if it touches water, that hard water is doing a number on it. And it's reducing the life of everything.

[00:23:32] Gregg Holladay: It's touching. You're absolutely right. I was the water treatment guy for GE for a number of years with softeners, our roles and house household filters, my daughter's noticed it first and foremost of anything, because when you take calcium and magnesium out of the water, your skin doesn't feel immediately dry when you're toweling off and you get out of the shower.

[00:23:50] Gregg Holladay: It leaves a coating on their hair. You know, my oldest daughter at that time was like 13, 14 years old. He's like, dad, what's changed in the water? And I said, what do you mean? [00:24:00] My hair is just, is acting different. It's fluffier and more body. And like, yeah, they put a water softener in, give me credit for that.

[00:24:07] Gregg Holladay: I helped you out. So there you go. There

[00:24:11] Eric Goranson: you go. Now you guys haven't added a new coating to your water heaters as well. You and I were chatting about.

[00:24:16] Gregg Holladay: Yes. And we are so proud of this. Bradford Weiss has entered into an exclusive agreement with micro band, micro band, antimicrobial finishes on all kinds of things that you would find in the house and in the food world from countertops to floors to doorknobs on homes to cooking utensils.

[00:24:36] Gregg Holladay: Uh, and now we have added this to the tank lining, our vitro glass baked on glass lining is now encoded with microband antimicrobial finish. This is the 1st and only tank water heater series, all Bradford White tanks that have this coating that all lead to protection for your hot water and for your home.

[00:24:56] Gregg Holladay: Nobody else has ever been able to offer that and we signed an [00:25:00] exclusive deal. So this is Bradford White only. So you can look on our website and find a contractor in your area. We started changing our tanks out as we did this and the process back in November and December of last year. So any Bradford white tank you buy today, micro band will be listed on it as one of its exclusive features.

[00:25:18] Eric Goranson: Ah, that is great. And you know, that, uh, that micro band was something that a lot of people ignored until we. Came into COVID season and then COVID season, everybody went, Oh, that's what

[00:25:27] Gregg Holladay: that stuff does. Yeah. This company has been around for 35 years in the food industry has been really tight with them during that time.

[00:25:34] Gregg Holladay: But as other things happened in the, in the world that created health concerns. All of a sudden they started rising to the top because you could put that finish on just about anything. Uh, and it, uh, it works. I mean, 35 year history of proving that it actually works. You know, if you live in a senior citizens complex, this is the, these are the kind of places that would be thinking about this, but now homeowners are thinking about it because again, [00:26:00] their doorknobs, the lining and their dishwasher, their washing machine, and even their countertops would have that.

[00:26:06] Gregg Holladay: So that anything you touch. It's able to attack that and keep the microbes at bay. Yeah.

[00:26:12] Eric Goranson: And that's, and that's smart. And that's smart. I do have one question for you. Cause I know one of the, I've talked to a lot of friends about, Hey, you need to put one of these heat pump water heaters in. I mean, it's just an important thing and, and, uh, you know, wave the flag a little bit.

[00:26:25] Eric Goranson: But, you know, some of them live in colder areas where they're concerned about, maybe that's out in the garage and the garage is going to be, you know, in the, in the thirties out there or it's in that, you know, it's in that location where maybe in the base, but where it's really cold, what's the best way to handle that with a heat

[00:26:40] Gregg Holladay: pump water heater?

[00:26:41] Gregg Holladay: Well, you know, people would always ask me that, Greg, can we use this in a cold environment and always have a teasing approach that I would say is I'm just a Kentucky boy. And I don't know about you, but we put our water heaters in the house. We don't have them on the back porch anymore. If it's in the house and it's where the water heater exists today, that means [00:27:00] it's above freezing or that water heater.

[00:27:02] Gregg Holladay: And the pipes are freezing. This heat pump water heater only needs air. That's 35 degrees or higher for it to actually use the heat pumps and still maintain. Well, above that 1. 0 that no water heater has ever achieved before. So, it's a matter of the yin and yang of how warm is it as to how much it saves the warmer it is, the more it saves.

[00:27:23] Gregg Holladay: I think some people would say, well, you're, you're also, you're using my warm air, but you're putting a little cooling air and the atmosphere as well. I'm like, yeah, it's in your basement. Who cares the water heater sitting next to the furnace. It's in an unfinished area. Most of the time as a furnace room and what makes that basement cool in January and upcoming July is the fact that it's 8 feet underground.

[00:27:46] Gregg Holladay: So the heat that it's borrowing from the room is free heat. You don't have supplies and returns in that area and you don't have a thermostat downstairs. It's all upstairs where you're trying to condition. So [00:28:00] sit back, chill a little bit and say, you know what? This technology really works. It's really going to lower my electric bill.

[00:28:06] Gregg Holladay: I'm going to be able to see it. Measure it and spend it somewhere else. Yeah,

[00:28:11] Eric Goranson: absolutely. And these days where things are getting much more expensive, you know, it seems week by week, uh, just looking at like the price of eggs, any place you can save is a smart way to go around the house. We'll be right back after these important messages.

[00:28:24] Eric Goranson: These sponsors are what keep this show on the air and a special thank you to them. We'll

[00:28:28] Gregg Holladay: be right back. Welcome back to the[00:29:00]

[00:29:06] Eric Goranson: round the house show. We've been talking to the Craig holiday from Bradford, white water heaters. Specifically talking about heat pump, water heater, something that can put money back in your pocket. Now let's get back to the program.

[00:29:17] Gregg Holladay: Hey, so if you don't push it up against the wall, following the manufacturer's instructions, and just know that that may be something you have to overcome in the future.

[00:29:25] Gregg Holladay: Yeah. And clear

[00:29:26] Eric Goranson: flow around the unit is always great anyway. Yeah. Right. I mean, that's. Yeah. Outside of access to it, just having a great place where air can come up in and go through that filter and work through that. It's a benefit everywhere, especially if you're up against like a, uh, you know, uh, an exterior wall that could be warm or something like that.

[00:29:44] Eric Goranson: You might as well get the most use of that heat

[00:29:46] Gregg Holladay: wherever it's at. That's right. And look at the energy guys, you know, folks that are out there, you're hearing us talk about it. And we talk about how much that it saves the energy guy tells the story. And there is no commentary with that a [00:30:00] standard electric water heater from every manufacturer.

[00:30:02] Gregg Holladay: The energy guy says it takes 419 a year to run. And if you look at my heat pump water heater, it's 113. Those are real numbers. That's 300 bucks in your pocket every year.

[00:30:14] Eric Goranson: Absolutely. And you know, I went from a, I went from a 40 gallon gas cause I went, okay, we're going to be doing some additions on this place.

[00:30:21] Eric Goranson: I went to the 80 gallon heat pump and, um, that thing's flawless. I will never run that thing out of water with the way we do it around here. So, you know, with with a decent shower heads and a comfortable shower. Yes.

[00:30:36] Gregg Holladay: Why would I

[00:30:37] Eric Goranson: need to

[00:30:37] Gregg Holladay: go any other way, right? That's that's right. And you make a great point.

[00:30:40] Gregg Holladay: You went from gas to electric. Gas water heaters can. Provide greater volumes of hot water because they're not inhibited by 30 amp service from the wall, providing the electricity. It's a 40, 000 BTU blow torch. So, for you contractors that are out there listening, just know, you have to follow the sizing chart for [00:31:00] electric, not gas.

[00:31:01] Gregg Holladay: And what that means is you're going to upsize the tank. Put to put any electric water heater in. So, if you got a 50 gallon gas water heater, you look at the 1st hour rating and recovery. It will come closer to matching a 65 and for sure an 80 gallon electric heat pump water heater will surpass that. So compensate with size, because size matters in this

[00:31:23] Eric Goranson: case.

[00:31:24] Eric Goranson: It does. And, and the funny thing is, is because you're doing a heat pump, it's not like it's a general electric water heater. Where I'm sitting here using two elements to heat water and store it for 24 7 that I don't need. In this situation, I'm just, it's, it's, it's a, it's a very efficient storage method.

[00:31:43] Eric Goranson: So it's not like I'm wasting that much energy.

[00:31:45] Gregg Holladay: That's right. And also upgrading the game a little bit by putting in a mixing valve on top. You know, water heaters are shipped by every manufacturer DOE requirement at 120 or 125 degrees, which is an [00:32:00] anti scalding temperature. But you'll notice the electronics on the heat pump water heater will go from 100 to 140 in one degree increments.

[00:32:08] Gregg Holladay: Homeowners are not used to ever changing the temperature on their water heater because it had a little screw that said hot and hotter. Or cooler, right? This has electronic thermos on it. You will know what the temperature is within three degrees. It's that tight. So put a mixing valve on, bump it up to 135 or 40 degrees, which means now that 50 65 or 80 gallon heat pump water heaters acting like a larger capacity tank because you use less of hotter water than you do cooler water.

[00:32:42] Gregg Holladay: That's always the first line of defense, and I always tell contractors before you take the old one out, run some water, drop an instant re thermometer in and show the homeowner, you don't know this because it doesn't show it on the control of that water heater, but you've got 132 degree water. Walk up to the front of this and let's [00:33:00] match it to 132.

[00:33:01] Gregg Holladay: So now you're comparing apples for apples.

[00:33:04] Eric Goranson: Absolutely. I run mine at 130 at my house and it's just perfect. It's not enough to. So I heard you, but it's, it's, it's enough to be able to take a really hot shower when I

[00:33:13] Gregg Holladay: want one. There you go. Mine's at 135 and when Easter rolls along, I may bump it up to 140 because I'll have a whole lot of people here and I don't want to hear any one of them.

[00:33:24] Gregg Holladay: I got four showers and they can all be running at the same time. I want to make sure everybody's got hot water. See, you're

[00:33:31] Eric Goranson: nicer than I do. I draw mine down to 120, that way they can get out of the shower quicker and save me some water. That's right.

[00:33:37] Gregg Holladay: I have daughters, they're not as forgiving for that.

[00:33:41] Eric Goranson: No, I have a daughter too, it's the same thing.

[00:33:43] Eric Goranson: It doesn't work. It sounds good on paper, but it doesn't

[00:33:45] Gregg Holladay: work as well. Absolutely.

[00:33:49] Eric Goranson: So where do you see this technology going? I mean, it seems like every, every couple years they get more efficient, more efficient, more efficient. Just like what you'd see with your, your [00:34:00] HVAC system at

[00:34:01] Gregg Holladay: SAMHSA. You know, there is a limitation as to what a heat pump water heater can do, and we're probably getting pretty close to some of those numbers.

[00:34:09] Gregg Holladay: There are a couple of, uh, manufacturers that have hit up near a 4.0, 4.1. I always tell contractors, and even homeowners don't get too hung up on the, the decimal points because from the top right now at a 4.02 to a 3.6 point, the operating cost per year is less than $10 difference. So when you see big jumps, you gotta remember, heat pump water heaters were one giant leap for this country in efficiency.

[00:34:38] Gregg Holladay: From 90% efficient electric water heaters and one big jump. That's what most people have in their house today. Whereas the HVAC business has been energy star challenge for 30 years and every few years the do. The Department of Energy raises that sea rating requirement. To earn that energy star label. So if you go out and buy a new HVAC system for [00:35:00] your home, it's going to be more efficient than what you have, but not significantly enough that it will have a fast payback.

[00:35:06] Gregg Holladay: You may not ever pay for itself for the more money you have to spend. But a heat pump water heater will always pay for itself for what you spend because it's one big giant

[00:35:16] Eric Goranson: job, man. That is so true. That is so true. And it's uh, you know, it's funny because the government's been really hammered on that. I mean, with all the changes they made just this year.

[00:35:27] Eric Goranson: To the HVAC industry on the heat pump side of things, you know, with all the new, all the new rules, all the new funds on the new everything else, how they're measuring system, how they're matching systems. It's interesting, but yeah, I think this is one of the, you know, I can safely say that looking at my unit, it is one of the biggest changes you can do in your home to save money just by installing a single product.

[00:35:51] Gregg Holladay: That's right. What else do you put in your house that actually pays for itself and energy savings? There are things we do in general because it's the right thing to [00:36:00] do. Light bulbs were one of those because you went from incandescent to compact fluorescent, the little ice cream cone things, and we all made fun of them.

[00:36:09] Gregg Holladay: It's also part of the lighting guys at GE to do that. Then we got to LEDs, or like LEDs, that's where it's at if you want to look pasty and white. Because it puts out one color and it's an ugly color now that refined to where it replicates incandescent light bulbs, and you get a 20 year product that you spend a fraction of the money for.

[00:36:32] Gregg Holladay: And that's what's going to be happening as you see, he hope water use continue to expand market penetration across this country. He's been out for 13 years. And they're still the best kept secret because a lot of contractors didn't believe in them. Well, you know what? These were the same guys that didn't believe in gas tankless.

[00:36:51] Gregg Holladay: And look what happened to the gas tankless market. It exploded. I believe it, but a big guy don't lie. Homeowners started hearing, you know, guys like Paul [00:37:00] Harvey saying, you know, the Harvey home, we got our non tankless gas water heater, never take a cold shower again. So they started asking contractors, what's this water heater with no tanks?

[00:37:10] Gregg Holladay: And that pulled that industry up to where it is today. Keep up water heaters are even a better story than that. Imagine that. Yep.

[00:37:19] Eric Goranson: Absolutely. Brother. So if a river audience out there wants to check out one of these and have somebody come take a look, where would they go searching to find it? Record

[00:37:28] Gregg Holladay: white.

[00:37:28] Gregg Holladay: com. As soon as you come to our webpage, it's going to ask you, are you a contractor or are you a homeowner? You click I'm a homeowner, and then it's going to ask you if you're interested in having a contractor come visit. We have a contractor finder on there that will be able to lead you to the contractors in your area so that you can have somebody come out and look at it.

[00:37:47] Gregg Holladay: A lot of these contractors are now just asking for a picture of your current water heater to see where it's installed and how it's installed. Before they even drive out to the house, because it makes it easy to begin that conversation. [00:38:00] But if you get a hold of the contractor and he says, I don't put those in.

[00:38:05] Gregg Holladay: Talk to me, let me know because this is a contractor that hasn't seen the light yet. And I'll be the 1 that talks to him and helps them figure out you got to do this. We've got thousands of them all across this country that are 1st, getting their toes in the market as every other manufacturer does.

[00:38:21] Gregg Holladay: We're showing them how to do that. We're showing them to teach. We do teaching and training in California every 2 weeks and have 6070 contractors on the call for energy started to be able to teach about this. It's about breaking that ice and getting being the 1st 1 to have 1 in your house and then telling all your friends and neighbors through Facebook.

[00:38:40] Gregg Holladay: Hello. This thing really works and they'll watch and see what happens as people. Thank you for helping them save money. And there's nothing

[00:38:47] Eric Goranson: wrong with that. Greg, thanks for coming on again today, brother. It's always a pleasure and, uh, can't wait for you and I to get together again. And, uh, I think we're overdue for a dope beverage one of these days.

[00:38:58] Gregg Holladay: Yes, we are. And I even [00:39:00] have, uh, you know, a couple of really nice thieves laying here on my desk. And I just picked up. Yeah. From a very good friend. So we got to find some time. Let me know where you're going to be.

[00:39:11] Eric Goranson: I will take you up on that, my friend. I'm Eric G, and you've been listening to Around the House