Ralph: I am thrilled to have Dave Jackson on the show today.
Dave is known as the Dean of podcasting or the O G.
As he's been helping people start.
And grow their podcast since 2005.
In fact in 2018, he was inducted into the academy of podcasters hall of fame in recognition of his contributions to the podcasting world.
I've personally worked with Dave now for over six months and he is a true professional in the podcasting world.
And I am also pleased to call him friend.
We're going to talk about starting your very own podcast and what to do to make it a success.
If you're a business owner, someone who has a passion about a topic, I truly believe you'll find profound value in today's show.
Intro: Welcome to the Ask Ralph Podcast, where listening to an experienced financial professional with over 30 years of experience can help you make sense of confusing questions, current headlines, and industry trends about taxes, small business, financial decision making, investment strategies, and even the art of proper budgeting.
Ask Ralph makes the complex simple by sharing his real world knowledge from a Christian perspective with all things financial.
Now here's your host, Ralph Estep, Jr.
Ralph: Welcome to the show, Dave.
I'm so glad you're able to join us.
Dave Jackson: Ralph, always fun hanging out with you.
Thanks so much for having me.
Ralph: So let's get right to it, Dave.
So why do you think small business owners should consider getting into the podcasting arena?
Dave Jackson: There's, it really boils down to building a relationship with either your prospects or your customers.
they don't do it anymore, which makes me scratch my head.
But for a while.
Evergreen was doing a podcast and they had the CEO.
They had the head of marketing and the head of their technology.
And what was interesting about it is they would have people send in here's how we're using Evernote.
And it didn't sound like a commercial, but it was a commercial.
And the other really cool thing is how often do you have the opportunity?
To talk directly to the CEO of a major company.
And so what that does is when you can deliver value, so that was keeping their audience up to date, but also they were getting great feedback on, I wish it did this, or I wish it did that.
And so when you can deliver value, they like you because you just helped them in some way or another.
When you can do it on whatever schedule you pick, you're seen as reliable because there you are every Tuesday or whatever it is.
And then if you can ever explain a point with some sort of personal story, then they get to know you.
And then you got the trifecta, the know, like, and trust, and you're off to the races.
Ralph: So I know you started the school of podcasting to assist people with getting their shows launched and growing.
Why did you do, why did you start that originally?
Dave Jackson: It's funny because it's the biggest reason I tell people not to start a podcast, which was, I needed money and I needed it quickly.
I was going back to school and I needed something to keep me in, insurance, phone, all that kind of stuff.
And a friend of mine, I had been writing a blog and he came back and said, Hey, I just saw The next big thing it's podcasting.
I googled it.
We thought we had broke the internet because there was one and a half pages.
That was it.
I'm like, how do you spell this thing?
And so at the time, podcasting was going to be huge and membership sites were going to be huge.
And I'd seen so many things like, I don't know, MySpace and all this stuff come and go.
And I was like, all right, well, I'm not going to sit here and just watch this one go by.
So I launched it, but that was the thing I really was hoping to like fire this thing up and just watch the money come in.
And this is back in 2005.
So nobody even knew what a podcast was.
So it took about.
At least three years for it to really start paying for, this and that.
And that's why I was also in a band.
I was designing websites for people.
I was doing all sorts of stuff to make money, but, that's why I started it.
And the big thing that really just hooked me in.
Is I had taken my blog, I started putting it out as a podcast and a guy from Germany contacted me and I was like, wait a minute.
He's on the other side of the world.
He found my show and likes it.
And that's when I was like, Oh, this could be a huge, just game changer for the world.
And it really has been.
Ralph: So if I'm a small business owner, Dave, and I've had this inkling of, I'd really cool if I started a podcast, what are the first steps you recommend for somebody starting out?
Dave Jackson: Yeah, you have to figure out why am I doing this?
So if the goal for a business is to position yourself.
as like a thought leader, well then maybe you want to do a weekly show with where you get to kind of show off how much you know.
It's really a deep dive into a topic.
If I'm trying to do it for branding, I just want to keep my name in front of you so that the next time you think, Oh, we need this.
Oh, I know.
We'll, we're going to call this person.
Then you could do a really short show.
And maybe do it, three, five times a week.
If you want to get aggressive seven days a week, daily shows are a bit of a grind, but it's one of those things that it really does depend.
So there's the, why are we doing this?
And then who is it for?
And that's where you want to get as precise as you can, because if you go, Oh, I'm doing it for, guys over 50, okay, well, you could actually add location.
You could add race to that.
You could add all sorts of different things.
And the reason most people don't do that is the more you kind of niche down, the smaller your audience gets.
But.
The more engaged they are because they're like, Oh my gosh, I'm they're talking to me.
just a quick example would be football.
All right.
Well, you're going to talk college and pro.
No, no, we're just going to talk pro.
Okay.
Is it the east coast, west coast?
I'm not a sports person.
So whatever division they're in.
Okay.
We're going to do the northeast.
Okay.
Well, is that Pittsburgh?
Is it Cleveland?
Is it whatever?
Oh, no, this is just for Cleveland.
So every time you niche down, So You get less of an audience, but the people that are like, Oh, they're talking about my team.
And that's really what you want somebody to think wow, somebody made this right for me.
Ralph: So if I'm an everyday, let's say Joe, the plumber, and I decide, you know what?
I think I could really profit from doing a podcast.
I'm interested in it.
What kind of time commitment and work go into launching a successful podcast?
Dave Jackson: Well, to, to launch it, you need artwork.
You need a description you I'm assuming because you're a business, you already have your website, so you don't need that.
And really it's just a matter of.
You have to figure out what am I going to do on this thing?
Is it just me solo?
Am I going to have video or not?
all sorts of different things like that.
And then what I always say for businesses, take those questions that if you go, Oh, if I have to answer that one more time.
I'm just gonna lose it.
Those make great episodes.
I had a friend of mine that was in real estate and he took all those like, how do I get my house appraised and all this other stuff.
And he said when somebody would email him, he would still answer the question via email, but he would also see for more information.
check out my podcast.
Here's a link to that episode that answers this question.
And he said, what would happen is they would get that question answered.
And he says, but while they were there, they see all those other questions that they were going to ask.
And he said, so what happened?
He goes, it wasn't the end of like cold calling.
He goes, but I ended up with a much more educated, prospect.
So I didn't have to do all that kind of handholding one on one stuff.
I was more into the advanced stuff and really getting them to, you know, pull out their wallet and make a purchase.
Ralph: So it sounds like what you're really saying, Dave, is you're creating a marketing catalog.
Is that the way you see podcasting for some small business people?
Dave Jackson: Yeah, absolutely.
So instead of advertising and, you can always do the little magazine that, you have for your neighborhood and things like that.
There's that, but it really is a, it's a marketing arm.
And the beauty of it is.
It's the only people that listen to it are people that want it.
So there's no spam in podcasting and it does open up a door to get that instant feedback.
You can see, is this working or not via downloads, but I always tell people, make sure on your website, you make it easy to contact people, but it's really a marketing arm and what it allows you to do.
Is you build that relationship with your listeners so that when they do want to finally buy, or if they're already a customer, they feel like they know you.
And so again, you typically do business with people, you know, and now they feel like they know you.
Ralph: It helps make that connection.
And I think it's cool.
Cause they can get to a 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
You don't have to have somebody on the other end of a phone line waiting there to answer a cold call.
Dave Jackson: Yeah, absolutely.
And it's global.
That's the other thing.
If, if you're selling products on the internet, you're going to go out to the entire world.
Ralph: So let's talk Turkey.
I'm a financial guy.
I'm a numbers guy.
What is the financial commitment that somebody needs to make up front, Dave?
And what I'm talking about there is in the terms of hosting and equipment, all those sorts of things.
What kind of real number budget wise should somebody be thinking about?
Dave Jackson: Yeah.
I usually tell people it's the price of an X Box.
So depending on how, you can spend thousands of dollars on a microphone, but I've got one behind me that runs about 70 bucks.
That's perfectly fine.
So there's that you need artwork.
So if you got a, niece or nephew or a kid, they can probably make one for you in Canva, but if you want to pay for it, it's anywhere from 50 bucks to 300 bucks for your artwork.
That's a one time thing.
And then hosting, I usually tell people it's around 20 bucks a month.
So again, I'm assuming you already have a website.
So you're looking at, Probably three, 400 bucks to get up and going.
Ralph: So that makes perfect sense to me.
So then the next logical question is, can people really profit from a podcast and what options exist in that area?
So if I'm going to do this podcast, first of all, can I profit from it?
And what are my options related to that profiteering, if you
Dave Jackson: will?
Yeah, the, the best way is to be your own sponsor for your own show.
So make a show that your customers would want to listen to, because hands down, that's the most profitable thing is selling your own products or services.
That's what I do with my podcast.
I promote my own membership site.
Then you have affiliate income.
And if you have the right product with the right audience and what affiliate income is, it's basically you sign up for a product.
They give you a special link.
And if somebody clicks on that and buys, you earn a commission.
So like Amazon has an affiliate program.
So there's that.
Then we get into a lot of people jump to ads.
First things first.
And it's really mostly one of the worst ways to monitor or monetize your show.
You're going to get about, if you're lucky, 25 per 1000 downloads.
And that's great.
If you have, 60, 000 downloads or 100, 000 downloads, but less than 10 percent of podcasts get that kind of.
activity on their show because again, it's hyper niche So ads are an option, but there are also people that are absolutely killing it with premium podcasts so they basically You have your free version and then if you want more information It's x amount of money and there are people that are making hundreds of thousands of dollars with that now they have They didn't start last week, they've been doing it for six to ten years But over the years they've built up this giant audience.
There's that you can accept.
You Donations.
You have to kind of be careful with that because, I know you being an accountant, you like, you got to make sure when you say donations, a lot of people think it's a nonprofit.
And if you're not, but people can via PayPal and things like that, donate money.
And for me, the biggest.
benefit is one, the relationships that you get with people.
I want to be that guy that if I'm a guest on somebody's show and somebody goes, yeah, we're thinking of starting a podcast that that host goes, I got a guy.
I just talked to him, six months ago.
There's that.
And then just the opportunities because Because of the relationships, people then go, Oh, I got a guy.
And that leads to speaking engagements.
I got a book deal.
there's all sorts of things that pop up because your podcast becomes this digital resume that never sleeps.
Ralph: Yeah.
And you mentioned that about being a guest and I know you've got over 20 shows under your own belt and you've had thousands of, downloads and all that sort of thing, what's your most favorite interview over the years or a couple of favorite interviews you've had, on someone else's show,
Dave Jackson: probably the one, and it's interesting because.
I talk about podcasting all the time and anytime I get a chance to talk, to not talk about podcasting, it tends to stand out because I, I kind of talk about the same things all the time.
So I was on one.
talking about, I'm unfortunately divorced.
And so they thought it was weird that I was still friends with my ex wife.
And I'm like, it's really not that hard to do.
you learn what you can from it.
And so it was just kind of a brush of, fresh air to like, Oh, I don't have to talk about microphones and bandwidth and things like that.
Not that I hate to talk about that, but it did stand out.
I've done that.
there are a few things like that where I've been pulled into Oh, you, you do this.
So let's talk about this instead of podcasting.
Ralph: So what missteps do you see new podcasters make the most often and how can they avoid those Dave?
Dave Jackson: Yeah, the big one is we talked about you need to know your why and your who And, but you also need to know, how am I going to measure this, success because sometimes it's well, I need 300 downloads.
Like, okay, so you can do what, like what's the measurement of that?
And so, I just, interviewed, I think he was on your show, Mark Lawley from, Practical Prepping.
And he said, my goal is to be able to make the house payment with my podcast.
And I'm like, that's a perfect, like it's measurable, it's specific.
And then once you reach that goal, you're like, okay, now what's the next one.
And because if you don't know your why and how you're measuring it, it's kind of like saying, well, I want to lose some weight.
Okay.
I lost two pounds.
Is that good?
I don't know.
What was your goal?
Like you might be halfway there, you might be that's a drop in the bucket.
So having that clear goal of why you're going to do it, that helps.
And then the other one is when you get any kind of positive feedback, save that someplace, because there are going to be those days when you're like, time to do the podcast.
And when you have that, kind of, positive reinforcement, you forget about those people.
Sometimes you're like, Oh yeah, I got to, this one's for, Doug or Karen or whoever, and, do that.
But, and then the other one is just, if you're starting from nothing, one, if the goal is monetization and things like that, it takes some time to get the ball rolling.
I always say it's not a Ferrari.
It's more like a steam train because a steam train has a cow catcher on the front of that thing.
Cause once it gets going, It's hard to stop.
And so a podcast is a lot like that.
I know, in my book about monetization, I talked about legal zoom and they had done, they'd done this big advertising campaign and after a month they just got nothing.
And so they went to the company and said, yeah, this isn't working.
We're going to cancel this.
And so they stopped it.
And then after the first month.
All of a sudden the traffic started coming in.
They're like, okay, turn it back on, turn it back on.
So it's not something that like, I'm going to put this out two weeks later, manna from heaven is going to fall.
It takes a while for it to get going.
Ralph: Now, you mentioned a little while ago about one of the upfront costs is a hosting company.
I know you work for Libsyn, but there are others, and I'm not trying to have you talk bad about Libsyn.
But first of all, for people who don't understand what we're talking about, can you define what a podcasting host is and then talk about what they should be looking for if they're looking for a host?
Dave Jackson: Yeah.
So if we compare this to radio, right, you've got your DJ in the booth and then you've got that big antenna.
And out of that antenna is your frequency, your 97.
5 or whatever.
Well, your podcast hosting company is that tower.
They're the people that are going to syndicate.
Your instead of a frequency, instead of 97.
5, you get this thing.
That's called a feed.
And if you ever click on one, you just get a face full of code.
Well, radio, if you look at actual or radio signals, just a squiggly line.
And that squiggly line, when you put it into a radio, Hey, this is stuff I can understand and there's music and things like that, and the same thing in podcasting with a feed, it's just a bunch of code when you put that code into Apple podcast whatever you're using, Hey, there's words on the screen.
And when I click this button.
Something comes out.
So part of it is going to be your budget.
So like Libsyn has a plan that starts at 5 a month.
Libsyn's a great solid host, but there are other things like Buzzsprout, Buzzsprout has a feature where you can add pre and post role.
Little pieces of audio.
So if you want to, let's say I'm an author and I've been doing a show about my topic and now the book is out.
Well, I could add one file.
And at the beginning of every episode, it would say this, Hey, the new book is out.
Go to my website.
com.
So they have that, there's another host called captivate.
They do that.
And they allow you to also put ads in the middle.
Now, again, if this is for a small business, these are ads for you.
So you make your own stuff.
So those there's that blueberry is another great host.
They're really taken off.
There's a technical kind of initiative right now.
it's about three years out, probably called podcasting 2.
0, where they're just adding more features like transcripts or something that just came in and that was a podcasting 2.
0 thing.
So they all have their own little like Libsyn, for instance, if you really wanted to pinpoint, like if I was a politician.
Libsyn has an enterprise solution where I can only run my own ad in a certain section of the country.
So that's something that only Libsyn can do.
Blueberry right now has a ton of podcasting 2.
0 stuff.
Captivate lets you put ads as many as you want throughout your episode.
And Buzzsprout, their big thing is they make it easy and they do, they have a lot of really cool tools and it's a super simple interface.
Ralph: So it sounds like what you're saying, Dave, is you have to start out with the ends in mind.
Dave Jackson: What
Ralph: is the goal of your podcast?
Who are your listeners?
Are you going to add advertising?
But I assume that you can also be nimble on this and let this grow.
You could start with that 5 a month from Libsyn and let it grow from there.
Would that be correct?
Dave Jackson: Yeah, it's not something I wouldn't move like every other week, but it's not that hard to move from one host to another one.
Ralph: Yeah, I did that just recently with the Ask Ralph podcast.
I went from Libsyn to Captivate because I wanted some additional features and all that sort of thing.
So Dave, let's get into the million dollar question.
We all get discouraged sometimes on the start a podcast.
So if I'm the Joe, the plumber, I'm going to start a podcast.
I do spend a lot of time.
I buy the right equipment.
I launched this podcast and I do, let's say I do a weekly podcast and I put out the first five or six episodes and man, I got 20 people that downloaded it.
It gets discouraging.
So how do you push past that and what encouragement do you give for those who are just starting out?
Dave Jackson: Yeah, well first things first my background's in teaching so 20 people that's a pretty full classroom and those people could be listening You know, they could be watching netflix or hbo.
They could be listening to satellite radio.
They could be playing video games So You have grabbed their attention.
And so there's that.
And then, like I say, if you get any feedback, save that for that.
And it goes back to your why.
Cause I know a lot of the shows I do, I'm just doing it because I love to talk about this subject.
And when I get any kind of feedback, that's always great.
But if I don't get any feedback, I just love talking about this subject.
So that's part of it.
If you're trying to do something like the worst question is.
What's the best subject I can talk about that takes the least amount of work that will make me the most amount of money in the shortest amount of time?
That's the direct opposite way to go.
It's like, Hey, what I want to talk about that I just love talking about.
That I know my audience will enjoy and that is close enough to what I want them to do, buy my product or whatever.
So it's kind of tough and just realize that, if you think about anything you did, whether it's shooting a basketball, tying your shoes.
I remember my dad teaching me how to tie my shoes and I just couldn't get it.
when you first start off, it's a little rough.
I'm a guitar player.
When you first start off, it actually hurts.
You end up with dents in your fingertips.
But if you push through those, you make it through to the other side, and then it starts to, it starts to roll.
And that's the, the fun part.
Once you can get your audience to start telling their friends, And as the old shampoo commercial for those of you remember that back in the 70s, they told two friends They told two friends and it starts to slowly snowball.
Ralph: So what you're really saying is an organic growth thing You're going to reach out to the people that you know with the intention of Hoping that they're going to reach out to people they know
Dave Jackson: Yeah, and it's funny because if you watch just about any youtube, person they always end with hey if you like this Like subscribe and smash the bell.
And I always go, why do they do that?
We all, we see that red button right there.
We know what the subscribe button does, but yet most of the YouTubers will tell people to like, subscribe and ring the bell because it works.
It reminds people like, I did like this.
I am going to smash the bell.
So in the same way, I always tell people if they go, well, I'm not sure how I should end my show.
I go, ask your audience to tell a friend.
hit that follow button or share button in your app and share this with somebody who would enjoy it.
And that's always a call to action that you can have.
Ralph: And you'd led me right to my next question.
And that is there's this whole discussion now in the podcasting arena of audio.
Video and I know that they're, true people, experts in the podcasting field would say, well, YouTube or rumble, that's not podcasting.
But I think a lot of people, Dave are looking at this now and saying, yeah, but I see all these YouTube videos.
I see all these, reels, all these types of things.
Well, can I do that?
Or what should I do?
Should I do an audio only?
Should I do video and audio?
Is that something you talk about?
Is that an obstacle or is it should be, let me get on as many platforms as I can.
Dave Jackson: It all depends on how much money you have and how much time you have.
And part of the thing that bugs me, I just heard Todd Cochran, who's the CEO of Blueberry, he just came back from the Philippines and he said, once again, there are people that feel they have to do video.
if you don't do video, you're an idiot kind of thing.
And I always say, if you've got the time and the budget, And the space by all means do video.
If you start with video, you can pull the audio out of that and do everything.
Whereas if you just do audio, trying to turn your audio into a video is kind of now, I just heard, Rob Walsh from Libsyn just said.
That audio is still outperforming video 15 to one, because there's more time to listen than there is to, I can't, watch your video while I'm driving to work or washing the dishes or walking the dog or things like that.
So audio is still more popular and keep in mind the people that are saying you have to have video right now is typically a company called YouTube.
And so I'm not anti video.
In fact, I've, we've got a holiday coming up and I plan on recording a few videos for my YouTube channel.
So I always say, if you've got the time and the, the space and the budget, cause a lot of times, if you want to export your editing to somebody and audio editor is not going to charge you, what somebody who's doing video and shorts and things like that, there's a lot of cool AI tools that are making this easy.
But so I'm, I always say, if you've got the time and the budget, by all means, jump into the video side.
But on the other hand, I just heard another podcast because they were talking, they recorded like at nine in the morning and they're like, Hey, if this was a video show, it wouldn't be happening right now because, no, but they're all, in their pajamas and they're not ready to go.
So that's another consideration to, to keep in mind.
Ralph: Which actually leads me to the next question, Dave.
And do I have to be perfect in my audio or video podcast, or can I be real?
Can I be the real Ralph?
Dave Jackson: Yeah, there's there's two extremes to that because there's real where we don't edit it all and you know I've heard a podcast once and they started off talking about what should we talk about on the podcast and I'm like That's a great conversation to have before you press record.
So there are some things you want to edit out and Perfect can actually ruin your show.
There are people that you know, they'll spend 10 hours editing a 20 minute podcast.
And I'm like, what are you doing?
And they're taking out of somebody breathed or if they said, uh, I don't know, they're like, Oh, I got to take out that.
Um, and so for me, I go for the low hanging fruit.
If I go, I think it's, Uh, Tuesday?
Okay.
I'll take that out.
Cause just like in Microsoft Word, you highlight the word, you press delete and it's gone.
And when you're editing an audio, you just highlight the um, and press delete.
But I don't get too crazy with that.
So it's really up to you.
And there are people that some people want to swear.
Some people don't want to swear.
And I'm just like, okay, I just always present the facts.
I'm like, if you swear in your podcast, that's your call.
And there are about 10 countries in the Middle East that will block your show.
So if you don't care about the Middle East, audience, then by, and you want to swear and do all that by all means, be yourself.
Ralph: And you mentioned a few minutes ago that you can outsource some of these things, because I'm thinking to myself, if I don't know how to do a lot of this work, like I can talk into a microphone.
I can use my iPhone to record my video if I wanted to.
There are places that you can outsource this stuff, correct, Dave?
Dave Jackson: Yeah, there's all sorts of people and it's really again goes back to, I always say you pay either in time or money.
And so if you got more money, use it and get your time back.
Cause it is, especially when you're learning, it takes longer to do this stuff.
So whichever one you have the most of, or if you just don't enjoy it now, I'm weird.
I like editing my stuff.
People are like, why don't you outsource that stuff?
I'm like, cause I'm having fun.
I'm shaping it with music and throwing in sound effects and things like that.
But yeah, there are a ton of people and it's going to run you.
If you're hiring somebody in the U S probably anywhere from.
I don't know, 100 bucks, probably more likely 125 up to 200, 250, depending on all the things you want them to do.
If they're just taking out ums and leveling the audio and maybe removing some hiss, you're in that ballpark.
But when you throw in video, now it's going to go up even more.
But if you work with someone overseas, obviously that's going to be a lot less.
Ralph: And what's the time commitment.
So for example, the AskRal podcast is generally around 10 to 15 minutes a day.
What is your expectation as to the amount of time that somebody needs to spend to create that and have it distributed?
Dave Jackson: Yeah, for me, I always say the absolute best.
So this is me being focused.
I've got my phone off.
I've got I am in the zone and I'm doing it four to one for just audio.
So if I do a 15 minute podcast, cause a lot of people don't count everything.
So let's say it's a 15 minute podcast.
Well, I'm already doing research on what am I going to do?
and who's going to do this?
And I, if I'm playing sound clips and things like that, so there's that, there's the research, then I go to record it and I'm not perfect.
So I'm going to do a little editing and then, Oh, wait, I want Google to find this.
So I should probably type a paragraph or two.
So I type that up.
And then I upload it to my media host and we're done.
And I'm a look over there like, yep, that 15 minute podcast just took you an hour.
And that's the best.
It might be five, six to one.
If you're doing video.
again, now, if your computer is a little on the old side and you're doing video, exporting a video can take, you know, a half hour just on its own, depending on how long it is and things like that.
So it's, that's the number one thing I hear is people go, wow, this took a whole lot more time than I thought, because they thought a 15 minute podcast was going to take 15 minutes.
And I'm like, and if you're doing interviews.
I always enter, I always do research on my guests so I can ask good questions.
And then when we do the interview, it ends up being, 20, 30 minutes, but I was on zoom with a person for close to an hour.
So if you count up all that time, that's where I'm like, yeah, it's not just 15 minutes.
Ralph: So you mentioned a few minutes ago AI and that's sort of the buzzword going on right now And i'll be honest with you.
I use a lot of AI tools you said a few minutes ago.
There are some tools that can help you Well talk to me a little bit about what those tools are and what your concerns are using those tools
Dave Jackson: Yeah, there's I mean if you It's like a drug stores in America, right?
Every 10 feet, there's a Walgreens or a CVS or something like that.
So every time I turn around, there's cast magic, there's descript, there's a pod squeeze.
I could go on and on and you upload the file.
It makes a transcript and then it spits out a bunch of stuff that you can use.
And it is cool.
I use it.
I would say instead of, AI stands for, I'm drawing a blank.
I know it's intelligence, artificial, artificial intelligence, and I say we should call it assisted intelligence.
I use it more as a brainstorming tool.
I know when I made a video once and it was a funnel thing and I was like, okay, I've got this all set.
And I went to chat GPT and I said, what are all the steps in a funnel?
And it spit out, like I had six and they had seven.
I was like, Oh, you know what?
Yeah, I could add that in there.
So the biggest thing I see is number one, never.
And I mean, ever put out anything from any kind of AI tool that you didn't read.
Because there's still a blog post out there that says there was a discovery problem with podcasting in the nineties.
And I go, yeah, there sure was.
It didn't exist yet.
And so you can blow your accountability, your authority by having an obvious mistake in it.
So I always, anytime I use it, I always look at it and there are words now that are very AI, like therefore, and I don't end my blog posts with in conclusion, so you kind of go through and make sure, would I really say this?
Which it does a good job because especially if it's doing something off your transcript, which you said it should sound like you so just be careful that it's not saying something you would never say and, in the end, I write content for people and sometimes these AI tools are like, Oh, you need to insert this keyword 13 more times and that's where it's like, Today, we're going to talk about growing your podcast because when you want to grow your podcast, you really want to grow your podcast.
And I'm like, yeah, that's ridiculous.
so, write for people.
Remember it's going for people, not the algorithm and, you'll be okay.
Ralph: So podcasting, I would have to argue is probably the lifeblood of what feeds you on a daily basis.
I know you're a Christian guy like me, and I know that's important to you too, but what opportunities have opened up for Dave directly related to the shows that you've done and things that might motivate our listeners that they might find interesting.
Dave Jackson: Yeah, this sounds like humblebrag theater, but I was, I got a call, and at the time, the biggest podcasting conference was called the New Media Expo, and the guy that was running it, now I didn't, I was at that point still teaching, and this guy called, Libsyn, he called Spreaker, which is another media host, and he called Blueberry, and he said, hey, the guy that runs my podcasting track has retired, who do you think I should get to host?
To fill in and all three of them said, what about Dave Jackson?
So again, that digital resume comes into play.
when I was teaching, I was teaching in a college and I swear, the reason I got that is we get done with kind of the interview and they're like, what do you do for your hobbies?
And I'm like, Oh, I like to.
Ride my bike, I play the guitar, and I do podcasting.
Like, wait, you do podcasting?
Because this was, again, way back in the day.
And I said, oh yeah, I could see doing a podcast here for, to teach students how to maybe study better, and things like that, and keep them up to date with what's going on in the school.
So I'm pretty sure I got that job.
Because I knew podcasting, I've been asked to speak all over the world, from all over the country, I got to go to Australia, that was a lot of fun, and do some speaking, so, there's that, I got a book deal, I mean I could go on and on, I work at Libsyn now, because again, of the relationships, I remember, I was still teaching, and I went over to a, what used to be called pod camps, just these little baby, industry events, And I met the Libsyn team and they knew me.
I knew them.
And I had done a podcast with a vice president now of Libsyn.
And I just asked them on the one day, because where I was working, we'd gone from 10 teachers down to five and we're down to three, and I was seeing the writing on the wall, And I go, do you guys ever hire anybody in support?
And they're like, oh yeah, we're growing.
And I'm like, why would you want to work?
And I'm like, maybe.
So I planted the seed so that when that day came, I got the job because of the relationship.
that's, I could go on for another 10 hours on.
it's just amazing.
the one that still blows me away is I will be asked to speak in, nowhere, America.
And I will announce, Hey, I'm going to be in nowhere, America, out in the middle of nowhere, and someone will say, Oh man, I listened to your show.
Is there any way I could take you to dinner?
And I'm like, okay, sure.
Why not?
And then I just tell my family that like, Hey, if for some reason I end up in a ditch somewhere dead, like his name is George and he took me to dinner.
So, it's, it's a lot of fun.
Ralph: What's the most obscure example you've seen of a podcast of finding unexpected success?
Dave Jackson: Yeah, the, chameleon breeder.
And I was like, what?
He's yeah, I do a show about breeding chameleons.
And I go like the little lizard thing.
And he goes, yep.
And it's, it changes colors.
And I'm like, yeah.
And he's okay.
But here again, he made a show.
His product was his own, it was cages for chameleons.
And what was interesting about it is, and it was all tips about how to breed them.
And.
care for chameleons and he, his audience came to him and said, we could buy these cages for less money and buy them overseas, but we want to buy them from you because you've given us all this value.
So it's the whole, the law of reciprocity.
I've scratched your back.
So I want to scratch your back.
So that was one that I was like, the, what is it about?
And I'm like, Hey, you win.
That's the most niche show I've ever heard.
I used to joke about.
I'm sure there's a blah, blah, blah, Frisbee golf show.
And then somebody said, Dave, there's about four shows about Frisbee golf.
I'm like, well, there you go.
Ralph: But the thing I keep hearing you say, Dave, and you tell me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like it's really needs to be something you have a passion about in order to really make it work.
Dave Jackson: Yeah.
I, one of my shows I've started.
Probably over 30 shows.
And one of them was the customer service show.
Cause in addition to being a teacher, I also worked in customer service and I think I did, I don't know, maybe six episodes and I did it and it dawned on me that while customer service was something I was good at, I won awards for it.
But it wasn't really something I did it as a job because I got paid for it.
And when I started it, it was kind of, I just sounded like a grumpy old man going, I went into this place and this guy didn't, and I was like, this isn't really what I want to talk about all day.
And so, yeah, it's that passion that really pushes you through.
Ralph: And I listened to one of your podcasts building a better Dave And I know for a fact because you and i've talked about this before you didn't really do that for anything other than Sort of an emotional way to vent but I tell you what I really get a lot of value out of that Dave So if somebody wants to do something like that, do you recommend that?
Dave Jackson: Yeah, it's one of those things you have to be careful, but I would say it's, that's one that's on the $7 Libsyn plan.
It's the best $7 therapy you can buy.
And all it is is most of my hobbies have a podcast, but there are times when something just weird pops up.
And I'm like, okay, this is, I saw this weird thing or whatever.
And what was interesting is I started that show and it was kind of an experiment.
I was going to start online dating and I thought, oh, there's going to be a ton of fun stories about this.
And I actually was kind of blue, which is not my nature.
We're, we're talking, I wasn't cussing and swearing, but it was a little, a little weird, a little on the blue side.
And you never know who's listening to your podcast.
And I get this call and it was, one of the Cleveland Browns players.
And I'm in Akron, Ohio, where I'm a big Browns fan.
And he's like, is this Dave Jackson?
I'm like, yeah, he's Oh, this is from the Cleveland Browns.
And I was like, Oh, well, what's up?
And he's like, yeah, I'm listening to your new show.
He's like, why are you working blue, man?
He goes, that's not you.
And I'm like, I'm just trying to say, yeah, that's it goes.
That's not good for your brand, man.
He goes, just knock that stuff off.
And I was like, okay.
So that was interesting, but yeah, it's, It's one of those things where I, the other thing is, it's weird when I listen back, you don't realize how much your voice changes.
You think about as a man changing your voice when you're 13.
And I listened to stuff from, 15 years ago and I, I sound like this.
Hey, it's Dave Jackson.
But yeah, it's just something I put out there that the thing I always mention is be careful talking about family members because podcast.
So it's usually my perspective.
on life, what I think, what I feel.
And so you don't want to, don't complain about your spouse or your kids or things like that.
That'll come back to, to bite you.
Ralph: All right, Dave.
So you sold me now on the idea of, I want to start a podcast.
I'm really excited about it, but now I need help.
How does someone get in touch with you and what does the school of podcasting offer me?
Dave Jackson: Yeah, it's super simple.
School of podcasting.
com is where you want to go.
And I have step by step tutorials.
So I always tell people, even if you already have a podcast, go through the planning your podcast course.
That's probably the longest and most detailed one, because it really helps you figure out what am I trying to do here?
How am I going to measure that?
And then from there, I have probably 15 different courses.
You don't have to take them all, but it might be what equipment do I need?
And then if you don't have a website, how to build one, and then how do I get into Apple and Spotify?
So everything is step by step along the way.
one of my favorite things is our community.
Cause I got awesome people like you and we mentioned Mark earlier and a bunch of other people.
And we get together and do kind of group coaching and compare notes and what are you working on and things like that.
So there's that going on.
And then my favorite part is I love teaching.
So I offer unlimited one on one coaching and people looked at me and said, yeah, you can't do that.
There's only one of you.
And I said, let's jump off that bridge when we get to it.
Because what I found was, I had my high ticket item.
You can still hire me for consulting.
But I was spending so much time knocking on doors, answering a few questions for free, and then, Oh, we're not sure, and following up, and I was like, Okay, by the time I got paid, this really wasn't a high ticket item anymore, because I'd spent so much time, and I was like, Well, I've already got people that are giving me money.
Why don't I just give them coaching for free?
And so it's, so far I've not had a problem with people going, I can't book a time.
Your calendar is too full and so works out great and I'm having fun.
So yeah, between the courses, the coaching and the community, and it comes with a 30 day money back guarantee.
So if you hop in and you go, Dave, this is more time than I thought it was going to take, you can back out within those first 30 days.
I'll be happy to give you your money back.
Ralph: So it sounds like Dave and correct me if I'm wrong.
I've got a passion.
I've got a few bucks.
You can really help coach me to getting something that i'm proud of at the end of the day
Dave Jackson: Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
And it's, we all need an outside point of view.
I just had someone this week that said, I just started this new podcast called your podcast website.
And I believe it's on episode four.
I refer to the guy that was in episode three and then said his website wrong.
It's studio one design.
com.
And I said, it's studio one.
com.
And a listener said, do you know that's, and I was like, Nope, didn't catch that.
Obviously, otherwise I would have changed it.
So just having an outside point of view.
There are times you're like, Oh, I didn't see that.
I just was helping somebody yesterday and on their about page, they didn't put their last name.
And I go, sometimes I'll meet somebody and it's, it's Karen Smith.
And I, she had a podcast.
I don't remember what it was, but I remember her name was Karen Smith.
And so I'll go to Google and I'll type in Karen Smith podcast.
And it won't come up.
It might come up in Apple might come up in Spotify, but her website won't because she just put hi, I'm Karen.
She didn't put her last name.
And so, which I get it.
We know what our last names are, but if you want to be found for your name, especially if you have a unique name.
Then throw that on your about page and be found.
And it's just, it's not usually this giant revelation.
It's the little things that you're like, Oh, did you know that's not going to work?
Oh, I see your, you just have one page with all your podcasts in one player.
There's no SEO to that.
And it's just things I've picked up from doing this for 19 years that You had this little bit and that little bit this little bit and then it starts growing
Ralph: So i'm gonna throw one more at you that I didn't mention ahead of time.
Dave Jackson: All right
Ralph: This is a christian podcast And i'd like you to tell my listeners how you live out your faith on a day to day basis And how that impacted your podcasting?
Dave Jackson: Oh, that's a great question.
I think part of it is just As much as it's not You know, I don't start off with brothers and sisters.
Welcome to talk about podcasting.
When I do see it as a ministry, because I've had people as much as you think I talk about microphones and bandwidth and all this other stuff, there are times, especially with the one on one stuff that I almost take on the.
Whatever you call it.
I become like a life coach because sometimes they're trying to squeeze their podcast into stuff and I don't have enough time and I'm like, well, what's going on, and so I, and I've had people I've taken flack because I had a guest on once.
Who is a giant flaming atheist.
That is his show and people like, I can't believe you promoted his message.
And I was like, well, on the other hand, I said, how are we going to we have to be friends with these people, I said, it's, and it's interesting because I still know that guy is still a friend and he knows that.
I know that he knows that, like he's not changing my mind.
I'm not changing his.
But I also know if I ever have a question, or if he has a question, we know where to, to go.
So it's been fun.
I did, I do a show, in fact, I'm going to be bringing it back called Feeding My Faith.
And I played a promo for that once in my, on my school of podcasting show.
And I had somebody complain.
They're like, Hey, I tuned in for podcasting.
I didn't do want to hear about your invisible sky, buddy.
And what was interesting is the next episode I came out and said, Hey, like this isn't feeding my faith.
This is the school of podcasting.
That was just a promo.
And what was interesting, it was all the atheists that came out and said, dude, you be you, if you want to do that faith thing, do it.
We'll listen all day.
We can always hit fast forward.
And so that became like a running gag.
Now, if I ever mentioned anything about my faith, I have a little like trailer I play.
It's like, whoop, whoop, invisible sky, buddy alert.
If if this is going to trigger you, you better fast forward.
But, Yeah, it's been fun.
And, there's the old, boy, speaking of non, faith based, the, the secret, right?
There's a thing out of the secret, like attracts like.
And I, it's funny because I have probably three retired pastors at the school of podcasting.
So it's one of those things that, I'll help anybody.
And, that's just part of that relationship thing.
How's it go?
always preach the gospel when needed use words.
And that's kind of how I try to do it.
Ralph: Well, I agree with you a hundred percent, Dave.
I always tell people that you don't have to check your Christianity at the door, but you also can't hit people over the head with it.
And I think that's what I hear you saying is that it's who you are.
It's who your character is, but you're not afraid to be, sent out like Jesus sent out the disciples and said, go out there and win people for me.
And it sounds like you're able to do that in a way that's not confrontation.
Dave Jackson: Yeah, I did an episode and it was like, market your podcast, like your Jesus.
I'm like that guy, his message was 2000 years ago and people are still talking about it.
And I said, so a figure out who your audience is.
So his was a sinners.
And then I said, he actually went to where they were as in like the shoe boot express.
Go to where they are, then make friends with them.
When you see him at the women at the well, he didn't like, how dare you, you Scarlett, no, he was like, he just made friends with her.
And then he told her about, his Dad in that case.
And so I would say, follow that example, figure out who your audience is, go to where they are, make friends.
Cause if you don't make friends and just start talking about your business, that's spam.
And once you make friends with people and you build that relationship, Then tell them about your company or business.
They're much more likely to do it.
And I go, that's just the way Jesus did it.
and, I didn't get too much flack on that.
Ralph: Dave, I just want to thank you, man.
I think you summed it up perfectly in the end and basically saying, what would Jesus do?
And so I think my listeners are really find value in that..
Well, Dave, thank you for joining me today.
I would encourage everybody to reach out to Dave.
Dave is a great guy.
He will work with you one on one.
It's no lie when he says it's unlimited because i'm one of his students and I probably annoy him because I always have a question But as a teacher Dave's told me many times.
I love it when you bring the questions Ralph So I always bring the questions but again Dave anything else you want to add?
Dave Jackson: No, just Ralph.
I mean I teach you about that But it's literally the one thing a teacher wants is a willing student and you're always Trying new stuff and things like that and i'm learning stuff from you I'm, like I didn't know that did that and but you're like what happens if this happens and i'm like Never done that before.
Let's find out.
So I always appreciate you having around.
Ralph: Very cool, Dave.
Well, thanks again for joining me and I'll have in the show notes, how to get in touch with Dave and all that sort of thing.
So again, Dave, thank you.
Dave Jackson: Oh, thank you, Ralph.
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