1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,420 Kevin Mako: Hello, product innovators. Today we learn from the head of a major university hardware incubator on how students can build a successful product business. 2 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:19,780 Narrator: You're listening to the Product Startup Podcast, the show that helps bring your product idea to life by chatting with successful inventors, 3 00:00:20,180 --> 00:00:28,460 Narrator: product developers, manufacturers, and hardware industry professionals. Our goal here is to get to the bottom of what makes a product successful, from initial 4 00:00:28,460 --> 00:00:37,500 Narrator: idea to getting your product on store shelves. We're taking you step by step to build a functional product and scale your product business. 5 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:46,420 Narrator: Hosted by Kevin Mako, one of North America's leading experts on hardware development for small product businesses. Now, on to the show. 6 00:00:46,660 --> 00:00:55,300 Kevin Mako: Welcome back, everyone. Today, I'm very excited to introduce Scott Evans to the show. Scott is the director of InventionWorks at the University of Texas, just a few blocks away 7 00:00:55,300 --> 00:01:01,080 Kevin Mako: from our Mako Design, Austin office. InventionWorks is a 23,000 square foot product design and development facility. 8 00:01:01,100 --> 00:01:05,620 Kevin Mako: with lots of fun machines and a team of 40 experts to help student inventions get off the ground. 9 00:01:06,060 --> 00:01:10,920 Kevin Mako: In addition, Scott has spent 25 years in the prototyping a product manufacturing industry. 10 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:16,560 Kevin Mako: Today, Scott is going to share some valuable knowledge in how student inventors and startups can start their invention idea journey 11 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:20,440 Kevin Mako: and how to maximize the value of what colleges and universities have to offer you. 12 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:28,700 Kevin Mako: And today isn't just about students, but also anyone in the industry can get involved with their local schools, both to help and to learn from them. Now, on to the episode. 13 00:01:29,670 --> 00:01:30,970 Kevin Mako: Hey, Scott, welcome to the show. 14 00:01:31,330 --> 00:01:37,250 Kevin Mako: Thank you for having me. It's great having you on. I mean, our awesome office is only a few box away from Inventionworks. 15 00:01:37,570 --> 00:01:41,990 Kevin Mako: So although we haven't met face-to-face in person, looking forward to doing lots of stuff between macro 16 00:01:41,990 --> 00:01:49,110 Kevin Mako: design and as well, Inventionworks with everything that's going on there in the new facility. There are lots of opportunities and I look forward to exploring them. For sure. 17 00:01:49,530 --> 00:01:57,150 Kevin Mako: And talk just a bit about what's going on with Inventionworks. We'll start there and then jump into your background and then go into tips for students 18 00:01:57,150 --> 00:02:05,790 Kevin Mako: to succeed and as well, how the industry can also help students and help themselves. as being a part of facilities and like Inventionworks, of course, in Austin, 19 00:02:06,010 --> 00:02:13,790 Scott Evans: but in facilities all over the world. That sounds great. So I am reporting to you today from the, in the middle of the 20 00:02:13,790 --> 00:02:19,550 Scott Evans: kind of the newest building in the Cochral School of Engineering. And we have a big facility here 21 00:02:19,550 --> 00:02:29,030 Scott Evans: that has a lot of prototyping capabilities, 3D printing, woodworking, machine shop, electronics, as well as some open workspace for students. 22 00:02:29,430 --> 00:02:38,170 Scott Evans: Outside of my office here, there are a bunch of of tables. And right now, several of those tables have sort of a different takes on a little 23 00:02:38,170 --> 00:02:43,930 Scott Evans: 3D printers that are part of a engineering design class. And so, you know, in Texas and Venturemberg's 24 00:02:43,930 --> 00:02:49,130 Scott Evans: includes those facilities as well as all of the training for all of those machines. I have a 25 00:02:49,130 --> 00:02:57,430 Scott Evans: 40 member student staff that gets trained up on the machines as well as trained up on basic design principles and things like that to be mentors for everybody. 26 00:02:57,450 --> 00:03:06,390 Scott Evans: And I also work with professors and all engineering departments, and then actually several colleges around campus to develop 27 00:03:06,390 --> 00:03:12,490 Kevin Mako: forces that have some kind of hands-on, some kind of product development elements of them. That's amazing. 28 00:03:12,750 --> 00:03:20,890 Kevin Mako: And it's so good to see investment from the university level, obviously the state level, going into student entrepreneurship, especially in around the hardware space. 29 00:03:21,090 --> 00:03:25,230 Kevin Mako: When I was a young budding entrepreneur starting Mako Design while I was in high school 30 00:03:25,230 --> 00:03:29,550 Kevin Mako: and then incorporating it in university, there was almost nothing in terms of university programming 31 00:03:29,550 --> 00:03:34,070 Kevin Mako: for entrepreneurship, let alone hardware labs and all this set up to really foster 32 00:03:34,070 --> 00:03:41,210 Scott Evans: student innovation, let alone in the hardware space. It's great. I've seen what's happened over the last 20 years. 33 00:03:41,510 --> 00:03:47,890 Scott Evans: I was a PhD student, actually here at the University of Texas from 2001 to 2005. And during that 34 00:03:47,890 --> 00:03:55,650 Scott Evans: time, I got involved in business plan competitions and technology commercialization. And there were business plan competitions. 35 00:03:55,850 --> 00:04:04,390 Scott Evans: And there was a brand new thing called I did a product that was really for technology folks, engineers, and scientists 36 00:04:04,390 --> 00:04:10,390 Scott Evans: to start looking at how they might commercialize their research. But in terms of actually building hardware prototypes 37 00:04:10,390 --> 00:04:15,670 Scott Evans: and stuff like that, it really just was not a lot of stuff here. And we had to do a lot of work as students 38 00:04:15,670 --> 00:04:23,450 Scott Evans: to piece together people and resources and stuff all over campus and lots of offices and staff members 39 00:04:23,450 --> 00:04:28,190 Scott Evans: to make progress in what we're doing. And now it's really wonderful to come back 40 00:04:29,070 --> 00:04:38,310 Scott Evans: and I've been at the university now for a little over five years to come back and build on some of that momentum and fill some of those gaps that would have been, you 41 00:04:38,310 --> 00:04:42,670 Scott Evans: know, would have allowed us to get so much further, so much faster as students 42 00:04:42,670 --> 00:04:48,830 Kevin Mako: and then be able to do that larger scale than anything that we saw when I was a graduate student. 43 00:04:49,290 --> 00:04:55,670 Kevin Mako: Well, it's great. And, you know, I can tell you on the professional design firm side of things, we had a ton of clients coming out of student agubation programs. 44 00:04:55,670 --> 00:05:04,610 Kevin Mako: It's where a lot of these student innovations start and they get their footing there and then they go on to raise their first angel round, then their seed rounds, 45 00:05:04,890 --> 00:05:14,390 Kevin Mako: then going to venture capital rounds and becoming major businesses. And a lot of that sparks in college and university all around the world, especially 46 00:05:14,390 --> 00:05:20,890 Kevin Mako: with the assistance from these types of programs. So when we're talking to the students in particular, what are some of the things around campus 47 00:05:20,890 --> 00:05:25,570 Kevin Mako: that students should be looking out for when they're thinking about their invention idea? 48 00:05:25,670 --> 00:05:32,450 Scott Evans: or getting a product to market, what resources are there around many schools around the world? What things should they look out for? 49 00:05:32,510 --> 00:05:39,970 Scott Evans: What tips and tricks do you have for those students just in and around campus to start? I want to answer almost answer two questions there. 50 00:05:40,110 --> 00:05:49,210 Scott Evans: The first question is, how does someone get started in this arena? And then the second one is if you're already kind of going and you have some ideas and you 51 00:05:49,210 --> 00:05:57,820 Scott Evans: are looking for some other resources. So the first one, getting started, I would say, it requires a little bit of courage. 52 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:06,760 Scott Evans: You may have to, like, that's one of the things that we see. People, it requires a little courage for a lot of students to simply walk into this facility 53 00:06:07,280 --> 00:06:14,380 Scott Evans: and ask if they can learn how to run one of our 3D printers. To those of us who are familiar with it, it doesn't seem like that big of a deal. 54 00:06:14,820 --> 00:06:21,900 Scott Evans: But for people outside, it takes a little courage. So to get going, I would say, you know, sweep together a little bit of courage. 55 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:27,600 Scott Evans: go talk to people who don't know, look for some of these resources, walk through the door 56 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:35,900 Scott Evans: and ask to learn how to run the machine or learn how to do some stuff and just tinker and just sort of move forward. 57 00:06:36,420 --> 00:06:45,020 Scott Evans: If you already have ideas, then one of the things I like to tell people here at the University of Texas is you should do 58 00:06:45,020 --> 00:06:51,900 Scott Evans: something while you're at school. And what I mean is do something on the inaugural while you're here. Why? Well, because within a couple hundred yards, 59 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:57,080 Scott Evans: of where I'm sitting right now, there's probably a world expert in whatever it is that you need, 60 00:06:57,740 --> 00:07:05,440 Scott Evans: and you can go talk to them, and you can engage them and get them involved in what you're trying to do. And that's going to do two things. 61 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:07,120 Scott Evans: It's going to move you forward personally, 62 00:07:08,130 --> 00:07:16,070 Scott Evans: or just the networking and learning from these people. It's also going to give you an opportunity to have that world-class expertise in your 63 00:07:16,070 --> 00:07:20,310 Scott Evans: project. So lean in, have some courage 64 00:07:20,310 --> 00:07:22,430 Kevin Mako: on one side. And the other one is, I would just say, 65 00:07:23,390 --> 00:07:32,130 Kevin Mako: assume there are resources out there and there's people who are at your university. There's probably programs you don't know about that could help you move forward. 66 00:07:32,230 --> 00:07:39,830 Kevin Mako: It just requires you to kind of get out and talk to a few people and ask a few questions. Something that really resonates with what you said there 67 00:07:39,830 --> 00:07:45,510 Kevin Mako: is just getting out there and talking to people and having that courage. For those of you out there who are a little bit nervous, let's say, to do that, 68 00:07:45,810 --> 00:07:55,050 Kevin Mako: know that the university setting is engineered and designed for you to reach out to people. The intent there is for you to bother folks. 69 00:07:55,710 --> 00:08:01,770 Kevin Mako: It may not be so as you get into your career. It may be much more difficult to reach out to those, as you mentioned, those world-class 70 00:08:01,770 --> 00:08:07,610 Kevin Mako: individuals that are there as experts in the facility that are either student staff members or 71 00:08:07,610 --> 00:08:11,970 Kevin Mako: faculty staff members or tech members or whatever it might be, but they're right there in your 72 00:08:11,970 --> 00:08:21,590 Scott Evans: backyard. And students here are encouraged to make those connections to have that communication. The key here, too, is it's not just with the facilities like 73 00:08:21,590 --> 00:08:27,930 Scott Evans: invention work, but it's also with other students. And that's something that Scott, you and I talked about before jumping on the air here. 74 00:08:28,130 --> 00:08:36,670 Scott Evans: Can you speak to that power of the student-to-student innovation? That is probably the biggest source of 75 00:08:36,670 --> 00:08:46,630 Scott Evans: learning and of progress for people who are trying to become creative professionals or entrepreneurs or product developers. 76 00:08:47,370 --> 00:08:55,430 Scott Evans: is connecting with other students who are interested in that area and who may be bringing other expertise and stuff 77 00:08:55,430 --> 00:09:05,170 Scott Evans: so that now you're starting to move towards having a team or at least having a network that can help you solve problems. We see such a wide range of students. 78 00:09:05,730 --> 00:09:11,550 Scott Evans: So a freshman engineering student could be someone who has never built anything, 79 00:09:12,390 --> 00:09:20,530 Scott Evans: never taken anything apart. But yet they have this proficiency in math and science, They've kind of got an interest in engineering, and here they are. 80 00:09:20,930 --> 00:09:26,810 Scott Evans: And that's just where they're at. We have other students that show up here, and they've been on robot teams, or they've 81 00:09:26,810 --> 00:09:34,330 Scott Evans: been building stuff, or they have a workshop at home, and they have these incredible skills to move things forward. 82 00:09:34,870 --> 00:09:40,330 Scott Evans: And so student A is certainly going to learn a great deal from student B in this case, 83 00:09:40,430 --> 00:09:47,610 Scott Evans: and probably is going to bring some experience and stuff like that, and they're going to have a productive conversation there. 84 00:09:47,810 --> 00:09:51,230 Scott Evans: So it's amazing what students bring to the table here. 85 00:09:51,370 --> 00:09:55,950 Kevin Mako: And if you look at, you know, just in terms of gray matter, 86 00:09:56,890 --> 00:10:03,110 Kevin Mako: most of the gray matter on campus is in students' heads. You know, most of the, you know, intelligence and stuff like that 87 00:10:03,110 --> 00:10:08,050 Kevin Mako: is in students. So there's a lot of folks like me who have been around for a while and have some experience and stuff like that. 88 00:10:08,130 --> 00:10:17,310 Kevin Mako: But, you know, anytime I step into a classroom, the brain powers is out in the audience. And so I think that's something I kind of keep in mind. So powerful when you talk 89 00:10:17,310 --> 00:10:23,950 Kevin Mako: about connecting those dots. I've judged a lot of student entrepreneurship competitions, both in the university settings and beyond. 90 00:10:24,250 --> 00:10:31,110 Kevin Mako: And one of the things that I find so amazing is that when you get these groups of students together, even if that specific project that they're working on doesn't 91 00:10:31,110 --> 00:10:40,790 Kevin Mako: materialize into this big invention idea or this big entrepreneurial vision, a lot of the time what will happen is two or three or four of the individuals from within those groups 92 00:10:40,790 --> 00:10:46,530 Kevin Mako: or possibly in collaboration with one or two or three individuals from other groups end up getting together and starting something else. 93 00:10:46,630 --> 00:10:54,710 Kevin Mako: The key here is to have that conversation going, get that communication out. Like Scott said, just reach out and start asking for help. A lot of the time as well, if you 94 00:10:54,710 --> 00:11:03,330 Scott Evans: don't know what type of student you're looking for, for instance, like in your example, maybe you've got a great app and you're looking for somebody to build the hardware portion. 95 00:11:03,530 --> 00:11:11,490 Scott Evans: Again, reaching out to the faculty or to the entrepreneurial incubation programs there, a lot of the time those folks 96 00:11:11,490 --> 00:11:20,710 Scott Evans: can start connecting the dots for you or can start putting you in contact with either the groups or the competitions or the events in which you may then meet those 97 00:11:20,710 --> 00:11:26,930 Scott Evans: people who could be a critical match to your potential business going forward. That's very true. You're talking about the 98 00:11:26,930 --> 00:11:32,750 Scott Evans: competitions and what happens after competitions and why they're important. I'm almost hesitant to 99 00:11:32,750 --> 00:11:38,890 Scott Evans: let your listeners know what the secret is here, but I think I think, you know, I think I will just go 100 00:11:38,890 --> 00:11:44,810 Scott Evans: ahead and do it. And the secret is that in the competitions that I've been involved in, it's 101 00:11:44,810 --> 00:11:52,790 Scott Evans: usually not the teams that win that end up being the ones that move forward and make great things happen. 102 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:58,300 Scott Evans: But the ones that win, I don't know what it is. But sometimes they go forward, 103 00:11:58,380 --> 00:12:02,680 Kevin Mako: but it's usually the ones that are a little further down and they're a little hungry and they're, 104 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:11,920 Kevin Mako: they kind of, they get a little bit of success, but they kind of see what they could, they could have done differently, and they keep at it, and they have that persistence, 105 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:20,660 Kevin Mako: often it's the third place team that goes to start a company, or it's the team that almost made it and was 106 00:12:20,660 --> 00:12:26,180 Kevin Mako: fourth, but didn't get me prize money, but kept going anyway. And most of the competitions 107 00:12:26,180 --> 00:12:32,900 Kevin Mako: I've been involved with, somebody who keeps going after the competition isn't necessarily the ones that win. That's a really good observation. 108 00:12:32,900 --> 00:12:39,000 Kevin Mako: Something that I've always said when I've done these keynotes for these events or whatnot is the fact that by being there, by participating in these 109 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:44,060 Kevin Mako: things, you're already way ahead of the competition. Now, of course, you're trying to win within the event. There's nothing wrong with that. 110 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:50,780 Kevin Mako: But the reality is there's a lot more meat on the bones within the event itself. It's almost more of the journey than it is the outcome. 111 00:12:51,580 --> 00:12:57,720 Kevin Mako: And what you're saying here just fits to that exactly. It's really something where the more you immerse yourself 112 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:01,800 Kevin Mako: into it, both, you know, with the school, with the incubators, with the competitions, with other 113 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:07,320 Scott Evans: classmates, the more you're going to get out, the more you're going to find those matches and the more you're going to be able to pursue those. 114 00:13:07,460 --> 00:13:14,820 Scott Evans: And I think that's why early on what you're saying about just try something while you're at school outside of the academic setting. Try a little bit 115 00:13:14,820 --> 00:13:23,460 Scott Evans: of an entrepreneurial venture or an idea or whatever else, even if it's just in the initial spitballing phase where you're working with some people ideating. 116 00:13:23,560 --> 00:13:30,900 Scott Evans: That can be very valuable to your potential career, even if you decide to go the route of a designer and engineer or whatnot. But on the 117 00:13:30,900 --> 00:13:37,060 Scott Evans: flip side, if you do end up going entrepreneurial, there's no doubt that you're going to learn lessons along the way that aren't being taught academically. 118 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:46,720 Scott Evans: I think there's actually an earlier and very easy step that you can take as a student. And that is simply show up to a meeting 119 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:50,180 Scott Evans: of an entrepreneurial student group, super easy. 120 00:13:50,700 --> 00:13:57,820 Kevin Mako: Or there are seminar series, there are speaker series, there are these sorts of things. The people who show up to those things are other 121 00:13:57,820 --> 00:14:05,400 Kevin Mako: people who like you are interested in that, want to know more and are probably going to benefit from building their network. 122 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:13,280 Kevin Mako: And so then you're often moving. It doesn't, you don't have to have an idea. You don't have to have a problem that you want to solve. 123 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:23,040 Kevin Mako: If this arena seems interesting to you, move towards it. And you can do that with, you know, to one hour speaker series at a lunch 124 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:27,680 Kevin Mako: and you're moving in the right direction. And you're here for some great people. Keep in mind when 125 00:14:27,820 --> 00:14:34,460 Kevin Mako: When Scott's collaborating with these outside groups, something that you kind of touched on before was the fact that you've got all these industry leading experts. 126 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:42,980 Kevin Mako: One of the things that Scott, you and I were talking about before this in terms of collaboration is doing an event like this, bringing in world-class designers out 127 00:14:42,980 --> 00:14:47,680 Kevin Mako: of Mako Design and pairing it with students who are interested. This stuff is free for students. 128 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:53,420 Scott Evans: And this is the caliber of things that happen at these sorts of meetups or these sorts of groups or whatnot. 129 00:14:53,660 --> 00:15:02,680 Scott Evans: So you might as well take advantage of that sort of stuff while you're a student. because those things become much more expensive or difficult to access as you graduate and as you 130 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:07,180 Scott Evans: move on. Now, one thing that I want to really talk about here in terms of the university groups is 131 00:15:07,180 --> 00:15:11,880 Scott Evans: looking at the career individuals as well, people who have graduated and are moving on, 132 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:17,180 Scott Evans: how can they get involved with what's happening at the student level, at the student incubation 133 00:15:17,180 --> 00:15:26,960 Scott Evans: level, student entrepreneurship level, and how can they also improve, you know, themselves academically in addition to their career or to help propel their career forward? 134 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:35,560 Scott Evans: I think on the University of Texas campus here, there are programs all over the place that have sort 135 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:42,560 Scott Evans: of a on-campus but off-campus kind of thing. They'll have meetings or seminar series or something like that. 136 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:52,300 Scott Evans: So as an example, the Austin Technology Incubator has a very extensive group of mentors 137 00:15:52,300 --> 00:16:00,720 Scott Evans: that they draw from as they're working with companies and stuff like that. So showing up to an event that the Austin Technology 138 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:08,460 Scott Evans: Incubator is part of would allow you as a person from outside the university to start networking with other people who are inside the university. 139 00:16:09,660 --> 00:16:19,180 Scott Evans: There are ways of reaching out to the development teams inside, you know, like the Cockles School of Engineering here, looking for opportunities. 140 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:26,320 Kevin Mako: You know, it's in the same way that we're sitting here talking about, hey, students, get out there in network, I think we're probably. 141 00:16:26,860 --> 00:16:31,320 Kevin Mako: same thing is going to happen to those who are outside the university and simply kind of 142 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:36,160 Kevin Mako: looking at the university and trying to find sort of ways of networking the way into the university 143 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:41,140 Kevin Mako: either through professors or through the development teams or through programs like the awesome technology. 144 00:16:41,980 --> 00:16:51,480 Kevin Mako: I'm looking for people who are out there and who are professionals in various areas and then I have classes that I'd like to include those people in. 145 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:59,780 Kevin Mako: So I'm looking to network with people who are out there and I'm not the I'm not the only one here. at a university in that same position. This is great advice. 146 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:05,680 Scott Evans: Basically everything we've talked about in this episode really also can apply to postgraduate students as well, right? 147 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:12,680 Scott Evans: Get involved, especially if you graduated and you're nearby, your university. Not only should you be donating back to it, but that's a side note, but you should 148 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,740 Scott Evans: really be looking to get involved and what can your, now you're an expert. 149 00:17:15,900 --> 00:17:22,200 Kevin Mako: Now you've got experience and whatever your craft might be, whether you're an entrepreneur, whether you're a product designer or somewhere in between. 150 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:31,640 Kevin Mako: you've got a lot of experience now to share down to the next generation. And as you mentioned, Scott, earlier on in the call, that student group has subject matter 151 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:35,760 Kevin Mako: expert in very specific things that they're working on. They are the gray matter of the future. 152 00:17:36,020 --> 00:17:44,260 Kevin Mako: And like you said, they are the genius that really is a big part of the university setting. So it is a two-way street in terms of value there. It is. 153 00:17:44,780 --> 00:17:54,760 Scott Evans: Another thing I thought is that there are student groups that have coalesced around all sorts of So auto racing, rockets, consumer products, there's all sorts of things. 154 00:17:54,880 --> 00:18:03,740 Scott Evans: And so those are also things that you can look at at your local university as a potential opportunities to get involved. Scott, let me just give a quick overview. 155 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:12,340 Scott Evans: You had a theory that you mentioned of blurring the lines between education and professional practice. And this is somewhat in line with what we're talking about right now. 156 00:18:12,540 --> 00:18:19,880 Scott Evans: We all hear about perpetual learning and lifelong learning and all that sort of stuff. How do you see that applying to individuals, both at the university? 157 00:18:19,900 --> 00:18:24,200 Scott Evans: university level, but especially when they are into their career, you know, what's the importance of that 158 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:32,860 Scott Evans: and what are some things they should be thinking about to develop their craft? Part of that kind of stems from a trend in engineering education. 159 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:41,200 Scott Evans: If you rewind the clock a couple of decades, there was a huge amount of talk about what we want project-centered education. 160 00:18:41,300 --> 00:18:48,260 Scott Evans: We want more projects. We want more students working on projects. The project was the keyword. That's still around. You can still 161 00:18:48,260 --> 00:18:51,820 Scott Evans: find a lot of discussion that kind of echoes all of those things. 162 00:18:52,540 --> 00:19:01,380 Scott Evans: But coming back to the university, I was trying to think of, well, projects are good, but what are we, why are we doing projects? 163 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:07,200 Scott Evans: Why was that so popular? It's popular because it's the experience of solving problems, 164 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:15,380 Scott Evans: of working in teams, of having to do the communication of all of the sort of the context around all of the math and science in your engineering class. 165 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:21,560 Scott Evans: The context is what's valuable. Well, the context is actually the practice of engineering. 166 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:30,160 Scott Evans: And so if I want to go beyond this concept of just projects to something that's more holistic, then what I need to do is I need to create 167 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:37,620 Scott Evans: ways for students to operate more like engineers while they're still students. So I think that 168 00:19:37,620 --> 00:19:47,360 Scott Evans: what we're trying to do is practice-centered engineering education. So it's a little bit like traditionally there's this education and there's this hard barrier. 169 00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:55,640 Scott Evans: And then after that you go and you act as whatever professional it isn't you're going to do. But on the, 170 00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:02,640 Scott Evans: professional side, you have this continuing education stuff where people are changing careers and all of those sorts of things. 171 00:20:02,900 --> 00:20:12,720 Scott Evans: So education is bleeding out into your entire career. And so what I'm working on is allowing practice to bleed backward 172 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:22,400 Scott Evans: into what is traditionally been more strictly education. And I think what that's what that's doing is, is we have sort of an ecosystem of all my student staff 173 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:32,280 Kevin Mako: and me and all that that allows students, puts them in the driver's seat, allows them to make decisions about whatever this they're working on and allows them, 174 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:40,720 Kevin Mako: I say this jokingly, but it really is true. I say students, you know, build stuff that doesn't work. And they kind of look at me funny, right? 175 00:20:40,940 --> 00:20:48,120 Kevin Mako: When I say that, but that's the key. The key is building stuff that doesn't work because all of us who are product designers know 176 00:20:48,120 --> 00:20:55,800 Kevin Mako: that we make stuff that doesn't work. And then eventually, after we make a bunch of stuff that doesn't work, we make something that does work and works really well. 177 00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:04,840 Kevin Mako: And then students, when they come in, they don't know all of that fun between, I have an idea and I have something that works really well, all that making stuff that doesn't work. 178 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:12,940 Kevin Mako: And so we try to kind of highlight that and make sure that we have sort of a structure around people that allows them to kind of learn from that and move forward 179 00:21:12,940 --> 00:21:21,780 Kevin Mako: and be mentored by other students and mentored by professional staff, me, some of some of my other staff members here being a lecture in the master's 180 00:21:21,780 --> 00:21:27,740 Scott Evans: of engineering program myself at ryerston university i can tell you that that's one of the biggest you know ticket items that i think 181 00:21:27,740 --> 00:21:32,400 Scott Evans: is helping educate the students of tomorrow is having that hybrid approach of really you know it comes 182 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:37,780 Scott Evans: down to real world versus academic and the combination thereof and the best of both worlds so you know 183 00:21:37,780 --> 00:21:43,360 Scott Evans: that's very much tying into the engineering principles that you mentioned there and i love the 184 00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:51,840 Scott Evans: fail forward model that is very powerful especially as a student especially as you learn or craft. And really, I think a lot of these things can be considered on through 185 00:21:51,840 --> 00:22:01,360 Scott Evans: to a lifelong of learning. On that note, is there education, let's say, for folks who are further down the path at UT or things around the world at university centers? 186 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:07,940 Scott Evans: Are there starting, is there more things or more courses or more workshops or even just these events that maybe can help people that are 187 00:22:07,940 --> 00:22:15,780 Scott Evans: further down the line in their career as opposed to just going through a full-fledged of master's of engineering program? Is there something kind of hybrid in there where they can 188 00:22:15,780 --> 00:22:24,080 Scott Evans: learn remotely or is this stuff coming into practice more? There are continuing education programs that exist. So there's one that's out of engineering here. 189 00:22:24,580 --> 00:22:30,160 Scott Evans: And it's not necessarily a big full degree program, but they have a bunch of small things that are happening. 190 00:22:31,180 --> 00:22:39,940 Scott Evans: I think microcredentialing and badging and having sort of an electronic, your own electronic portfolio of all of those things that you're able to collect. 191 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:50,160 Scott Evans: I think that's coming. And I think that what you're going to see is more opportunities coming out of universities to take advantage of these small pieces. 192 00:22:50,780 --> 00:22:59,440 Scott Evans: So it might be learning a piece of software, it might be, you know, learning how to build a particular type of device or testing something. But I think that's sort of coming. 193 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,360 Scott Evans: I also think you and I would probably answer this. 194 00:23:03,620 --> 00:23:11,720 Scott Evans: Part of our answer to this question would be identical in that there are places around that are hacker spaces, maker spaces, 195 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:20,300 Kevin Mako: these kinds of things that are open and community kind of oriented. It's unfortunate that tech shop didn't have their business model right 196 00:23:20,300 --> 00:23:29,600 Kevin Mako: to still be with us in several cities. But there are places like that that are around. And so that's a place where you can show up and learn from other people in the 197 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:36,920 Kevin Mako: way that students are learning from each other in my facility here. And you can go and maybe you haven't done woodworking. 198 00:23:37,060 --> 00:23:43,240 Kevin Mako: You can find somebody that can help you get going with that. or maybe you haven't programmed Arduino and you haven't done much coding, 199 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:50,480 Kevin Mako: you're going to find people there that can make our Arduino do all sorts of things and kind of help you move forward there. So I think those kinds of facilities 200 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:58,260 Kevin Mako: and those kinds of environments are great opportunities for people in our kind of line of work to continue to put themselves back 201 00:23:58,260 --> 00:24:08,100 Kevin Mako: in that kind of mode of a student where you're learning very quickly and you have that sort of, I don't know what to do here and a little bit of that nervousness 202 00:24:08,100 --> 00:24:13,820 Kevin Mako: and stuff like that. or that you have to respond. You have to kind of beat back with a little bit of that inventive confidence. 203 00:24:14,500 --> 00:24:22,260 Kevin Mako: Scott, I appreciate mentioning those events because something I would say to anybody who's in the hardware space out there, whether you're developing a new product, whether you're 204 00:24:22,260 --> 00:24:29,940 Kevin Mako: a student, whether you're a mature product developer, whatever the case is, check out MakoDesign's blog. We've got all kinds of information on upcoming events. 205 00:24:30,140 --> 00:24:34,440 Kevin Mako: We co-run events with a whole bunch of other partners, like the crowdfunded summit and 206 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:42,780 Scott Evans: like Make 48 TV show and whatnot. So there's a ton of especially digital education. education right now that's in and surrounding the industry that Mako Design is quite heavily 207 00:24:42,780 --> 00:24:49,600 Scott Evans: involved with. But even if it's not something that we're directly partnered with or that I'm not keynoting at, we've got a ton of information on there. 208 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:55,320 Scott Evans: And of course, by listening to this podcast, we're always trickling in tidbits of information around upcoming events and whatnot as well. 209 00:24:55,700 --> 00:24:59,980 Scott Evans: So thanks for bringing that up, Scott, and to the listeners out there. And I'm sure I speak for 210 00:24:59,980 --> 00:25:08,780 Scott Evans: everyone. I say thanks for your tips and tricks, especially to students or those of us who still have that student vein still in us that we still want to be learning for life. 211 00:25:08,900 --> 00:25:12,760 Scott Evans: Or let's say, to be honest, you know, we kind of miss being in school. It was a great time in our life. 212 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:22,580 Scott Evans: So I'd say to the students out there, keep that in mind that years later, you will really look back on those times and you will never regret doing what Scott said and doing that 213 00:25:22,580 --> 00:25:26,640 Scott Evans: one reach out that you thought you should do or checking out that facility that you thought 214 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:33,240 Scott Evans: might be interesting or looking into that course that you thought might lead to something. So, Scott, thanks a lot for being on the show today. 215 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,840 Scott Evans: Much appreciated and we'll talk soon. Thank you for everyone. Looking forward to it. 216 00:25:36,980 --> 00:25:44,460 Narrator: Thanks for tuning in to this episode. of the Product Startup Podcast, the show that teaches you what it really takes to bring your 217 00:25:44,460 --> 00:25:50,280 Narrator: product to market and turn it into a big success. This podcast series is brought to you by 218 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:56,100 Narrator: Mako Design + Invent, the original and leading firm in North America to provide global 219 00:25:56,100 --> 00:26:03,300 Narrator: caliber in-to-end physical consumer product development to startups, inventors, and small product business clients. 220 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:08,980 Narrator: If you're looking for product development help on your invention, head over to MakoDesign.com. 221 00:26:09,260 --> 00:26:18,220 Narrator: That's ma-k-o-design.com for a free consultation from one of Mako Design's four design studios from coast to coast. 222 00:26:18,540 --> 00:26:20,560 Narrator: Thanks for listening and see you next time.