Edited - Podcast COL Baskerville Draft 2-enhanced-85p

[00:00:00] Dean: Today, I'm thrilled to have Colonel John Baskerville, who serves as the head of the West Point Department of Foreign Languages, with us on the podcast. Welcome, John.

[00:00:07] Baskerville: Oh, thank you, sir.

[00:00:09] Dean: So, John's background's fascinating, and so I'll just read a few points from his bio to orient us to who we're talking to today.

So, Colonel John Baskerville graduated from West Point in 1990 with a Bachelor of Science degree in Arabic and French Studies and commissioned as an aviation officer. Colonel Baskerville served with the 1st Armored Division in Germany For his first assignment, and later commanded an AH 64 Apache company as part of the 3rd Infantry Division.

He also served 10 years as a Foreign Area Officer, also known as a FAO, with a Middle East Regional Specialty. As a FAO, his overseas service included one year in Jordan, and two years as the Army Programs Chief in Muscat, Oman. From 2004 to 2006, he served as the Branch Chief, Security Cooperation for the Middle East Branch at U. S. Army Forces Central Command. Colonel Baskerville holds a Ph. D. From the University of Texas at Austin in Arabic studies and holds master's degrees from John Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies in Middle Eastern Studies and from the United States Army War College in Strategic Studies. In July 2010, Colonel Baskerville assumed duties as an Academy Professor and Program Coordinator for Arabic in the Department of Foreign Languages at West Point.

In the spring of 2015, Colonel Baskerville was selected as the Deputy Head of the Department of Foreign Languages. Another interesting note is that from July 2015 through June 2016, Colonel Baskerville served in both Kuwait and Baghdad as the Director of Key Leader Engagement for Combined Joint Task Force Operation Inherent Resolve.

So, for today's episode, I knew I wanted to focus on the foreign language program, which is such a critical part of West Point. But what many people may not realize is just how robust all of the program is, which includes our international exchange program. So that's where I want to start, because for Army officers, the skills and knowledge, that are put to the test through real life engagements is, it's really truly world class.

And over the years, we've seen the program grow tremendously, here at West Point and its importance to the Army and its importance in, in cadet development. And so I'm really looking forward to discussing the entire program with you and in particular The, uh, the, uh, international exchange program. So let me just start with that.

Let me just start with some basics. When we say international exchange program, what does that mean?

[00:02:25] Baskerville: Okay. So thank you again for the introduction and thank you for having me on today. As we know, across the academy, we have a pretty robust array of international programs. We can think of the international immersion programs across several departments, four year international cadets, foreign academy exchange programs, international scholars, non commissioned officers and officers in some of our programs, and you have your own international intellectual development team.

But I'll talk about some programs and activities where our department, the Department of Foreign Languages, heavily intersects or plays a key role. So I'll start with the Semester Abroad Program, and I use that as an umbrella term. So as we talk about Semester Abroad Program overall, as we think about the past four years, we've averaged just under 110 cadets a year.

Over the longer term, 15 years or so, probably in the 130 to 150 range per year.

[00:03:21] Dean: So for, for some of those who graduated maybe a, a little while ago, this is unusual. Like they didn't have an exchange program, like that prior to maybe what, 2005.

[00:03:34] Baskerville: 2005 is really when these things started to come on.

[00:03:37] Dean: And what was the impetus? Why did all of a sudden the army go, you know what, it's more valuable to have cadets, perhaps not spend a semester at West Point, but spend that semester, you know, in a semester abroad and various countries.

[00:03:51] Baskerville: Right. In 2005, the Department of Defense published a defense language transformation roadmap.

It was in support of the 2004 National Defense Strategy with an idea of having a roadmap to achieve the language capabilities to support the strategy. It was also related to the post nine 11 Department of Defense evaluation of language and regional knowledge in the force. And the underlying principles were, and I quote, working effectively with coalition partners, understanding varied perspectives, and interacting with non combatants in complex environments, unquote, are enduring principles for warfighting in the 21st century.

So there were several desired outcomes and required actions throughout, one of which was to expand foreign language immersion opportunities to include semester abroad at the United States Military Academy, so here. So we received some significant funding and other support along with that required action, and we really started expanding the program that same year, 2005.

In 2005 we had 12 cadets, by 2006, 24, by 2007, 86, And by 2008, we were already in the range of about where we ended up residing for quite a while, in the 130 to 150 range. I graduated in 1990, and people that are listening that are not familiar with the expanded program may know that throughout the parts of the 90s and early on in the 2000s, before expansion, we would send two cadets to San Sierra for a semester, and in return, San Sierra would send two cadets to West Point for a semester.

[00:05:31] Dean: Yeah, that's, that's probably why they gave us the statue, because of that program. Okay, so I, I just wanted to interrupt you because, it is, in the big history of West Point, it's a relatively new program. I mean, we're talking, we're in basically the 20th, close to the 20th year of this ex expanded, semester abroad program that's available to cadets.

And it'll be interesting as we talk about how that has impacted those cadets at the individual level and collectively the Army. So, so please.

[00:05:59] Baskerville: So I was talking about the numbers of cadets and I'd mentioned that it's across all eight languages; Arabic, Chinese, French, German, Persian, Portuguese, Russian, and Spanish. We're operating in about 12 to 14 countries depending on the semester, across the world, and about 17 sites.

[00:06:19] Dean: How do we choose what languages we teach and what languages we don't teach?

[00:06:23] Baskerville: We've added languages for a number of reasons. The need to access knowledge, regional conflicts, major wars, and sometimes thinking about strategic shifts in the landscape.

A former deputy head wrote a chapter entitled Teaching Languages at West Point in the book that was entitled West Point, Two Centuries and Beyond. And she laid it out for us. We started teaching French pretty much from the beginning in 1803. At that time, the leading science, math, and engineering materials and textbooks were often written in French.

So, cadets needed to access French to access knowledge for their overall education. In 1854, we added Spanish, and that's about six years after the Mexican War. And that rule was a driving force for the introduction of Spanish. And I'll quote again. There's a quote in the book that captures it, during the Mexican War, and now a quote.

The Army discovered the difficulties associated with the conduct of military operations where commanders are unable to communicate with the local populace. With World War ii, we saw the introduction of German, then Portuguese and finally Russian. And in 1966 we added Mandarin Chinese. With recognition of the strategic importance of China, and also China's cultural revolution was getting underway at that time.

Arabic came in 1976 with recognition of the growing importance strategically of the Middle East. Thinking about oil reserves and the series of Arab Israeli conflicts running from 1948 through the 1973 war. And then finally we began teaching Persian in the fall of 2007.

[00:08:07] Dean: What are some of the best stories you've heard from cadets about their experiences?

[00:08:10] Baskerville: We have interesting stories of cadets witnessing how tensions and strife play out in a society as conflicts arise in various regions or as old tensions related to occupation or colonization gain new life.

And sometimes we see that played out by what language has power and prestige in a given location or situation so that you'd have to think deliberately about what language you're using and what that's projecting or presenting at the time for the situation you're in.

I also spoke recently with a cadet who spent a semester in Armenia. Her language proficiency in Persian improved and she had an exceptional score on her defense language proficiency test that we use to assess language gain while abroad, especially as we consider her experience level in general. But she also talked about lessons in interpersonal tact and operating outside of her comfort zone.

And One thing she brought up is that she had a language partner throughout her stay, and they had discussions on all types of subjects. in different locations, but some of those subjects could delve into or expose sensitive areas. So she was trying to sort through that in the Persian language, but at the same time trying to understand how cultural views affect what areas are sensitive or taboo.

She learned lessons in patience, influence, and cultural inclinations toward relationships or task orientation. As she was working with Various organizations that she volunteered with. So she was also learning about organizational culture at the same time. So she's trying to figure out in this different environment, in Persian, with these different expectations than what I bring to the table.

How do I navigate effectively here? How do I get done what I need to get done without running afoul of something that in some type of personal affront or some type of insulting way because I'm so anxious to get to what I think is the task accomplishment. All of those lessons learned in Persian and within Armenian culture, I argue, will make her better able to lead and interact anywhere, to include in the army and interagency settings right here in the United States, and to include day one when she walks into her platoon.

We've got cadets that are participating in sporting events, sometimes at a high level abroad. For instance, we just had a cadet that won first place in a fencing tournament at the Brazilian Military Academy. I also spoke to a cadet who was in Kazakhstan, and he was telling me about the formation coming together of an American football league there in Kazakhstan.

And he's playing in the league there operating in Russian, except for when they have to pull some specific jargon in, like the A Gap or some of the plays. And they're drawing equipment from, discarded equipment from U. S. high schools that someone's friend is sending over. So that was quite an interesting experience for him to see those cultures coming together on the sporting field like that.

So, from attributes, we can think of cross cultural competence, language proficiency, and And one that we haven't talked about much, but very important learning to operate outside of your comfort zone and learning how you respond. when you're like that so that you can think about those things and learn how to thrive when you're in ambiguous situations and not fold up or not be able to respond.

[00:11:53] Dean: When I went to university of Munich, I had a chance to meet the president of university because we had cadets on exchange and she and I had a great conversation and then , the Commandant, who is a German military officer, and the President of the University toured me around all day, and we went to all these various things, and it helped me think through how we develop our cadets, and either validate things that we do, or have, have an idea of things that they're doing, where I was like, that's interesting.

And the one that really stuck out to me was I went through their simulation lab, because they don't have the resources to fully, have their, officer candidates go through, you know, out in the field, but, but they would go into these, this simulation lab and some of it would be, like small arms fire and some of it would be engaging with another, another nation.

And so I found like a simulation center. It's a really interesting idea on how you can get reps cheaply, to be honest, um, for officer candidates or cadets.

[00:12:51] Baskerville: And I think that we have an advantage in our department as we interact with other militaries, as we do different types of cooperation with them and exposed to things that they do to see how they do certain operations.

And if we can think of innovation as adopting something that's new in our context, new in our force. So, it's innovative to us even though it's happening somewhere else. I think though that provides a great example and that gives us an advantage in thinking about innovation, seeing those different ways of doing things.

I would also mention that we have the semester exchange program with, um, partner military academies. And there we average sending about 34 West Point cadets a semester. So a little more than half of the cadets that go on semester abroad cross four languages. That's French, German, Portuguese, and Spanish.

Seven countries and nine sites. So, some countries have multiple sites.

I spoke recently with the cadet who did his semester abroad at the Spanish Military Academy. He could not say enough about how transformative the experience was for him. First, he was a beast or basic training squad leader at the academy. So not only is he trying to bring in.

new cadets and help them learn about military customs, courtesies, and how to operate. But he's doing that in a different language, in a different culture, and trying to bridge all of those things together at one time. But he was entrusted to do that.

[00:14:22] Dean: And maybe more than anything, the relationships start to develop that will, that will probably bear out through the professional lives of both the American officer and those exchange officers going forward.

[00:14:35] Baskerville: Captains and majors that are here now that had participated in semester abroad years ago.

And we've got a number of different stories where they recount their roommates here at the time, cadets they ran into on semester exchange, and even with we above and beyond speaking to American officers, we've got some feedback from officers in other countries and those relationships were, powerful for them and, and they sometimes come to bear as they meet in other headquarters, as they think about working in alliances and partnerships if they need something from that other country's military.

[00:15:11] Dean: And there's, there's even stories of, when there is, there's great, some sort of great disruptive event taking place in a foreign country that sometimes the only lines of communication are the relationships between the military officers.

Maybe they, they were here at West Point or maybe they were at a war college or some sort of professional military education. Together, but you know, it's a friend can call another friend and, and have a conversation. I mean, the relationships bear fruit for a long time for the United States.

[00:15:40] Baskerville: We also move on, talk a little bit about our summer immersion experiences.

Those are typically about three weeks, most in Intel and intense language and culture study and exposure experience, but there's also graded components to those for our department for academic credit. There we're averaging severed 70 to 80 cadets across an average of 20 countries any given summer. And as we think about the international exchange programs, I also think I should mention the military Personnel Exchange Program.

Yeah, important. And in PFL, we have two international exchange officers. I know there are others across the academy, but in our department we have one from Brazil and one from Mexico. We've also typically had a German liaison officer assigned to the academy, but working primarily in our department. Right now we have Lieutenant Colonel Falcão, he's Brazil's 37th exchange officer to West Point, and Lieutenant Colonel Diaz is number 40 from Mexico.

These officers are typically here on two year assignments, and they bring a tremendous wealth of experience from their own forces and their deployments around the world. And they also bring valuable perspective and insight from a partner army, a strategic ally. And we talk about these officers, they also play a role in facilitating valuable opportunities for cadet professional development in and out of the classroom.

So when we think about them, we consider them and their positions to be a testament to the dedicated, Strong relationships the army and the United States have with their countries.

[00:17:13] Dean: In those officers and you're right there's a spectrum of them across the academy. They live on post And which means that they're living next door and again, back to this relationship component and they sponsor cadets and they engage in, West Point extracurricular activities, whether that's sports or whether it's, uh, you know, schools, all of that.

I mean, it's just, really lacing together, uh, some foreign militaries with the United States army and in a world where interoperability is so critical. This is like the best investment we probably can make.

[00:17:44] Baskerville: No, that's a great point. They are absolutely integrated into the community.

They're engaged in the community. So what they bring to the table goes far beyond Washington Hall, far beyond the Department of Foreign Languages. So that, that's a great, yeah, appreciate that.

[00:17:59] Dean: So John, you just mentioned some of the broadening experiences that Uh, these, these foreign exchange officers bring to the academy. What are a few examples?

[00:18:09] Baskerville: I would mention that they are valuable in the classroom, teaching at all levels and often with the focus on the military courses for their language. And with our immersion or various other types of programs, they provide a key link back to their army headquarters and army schools.

So they can help enrich the programs we have or even start new programs. They help integrate and develop cadets that come on exchange or other programs from their academies and their countries. And they provide a great entry point to their embassies, attachés and other military representatives right here in the United States.

One thing that I would mention later is distinguished visitors. They play an important role in bringing distinguished visitors here, helping facilitate those visits, helping us know how to engage properly on those visits and helping us get the most out of those engagements when we do have distinguished visitors.

[00:19:02] Dean: Yeah. It's one of the interesting things I have found in my job is the proximity to the United Nations in New York with these exchange officers here means that we get an outsized number of these dignitaries coming to West Point, which gives us an opportunity to explain to them, not just West Point, but what the U S army does.

And, and it, I mean, again, it's back to this, just building a common understanding of, of some of our values.

[00:19:27] Baskerville: Right. And those officers also having the opportunity to take cadets to those locations . So that's another part of our the international exchange program that I would mention.

And so as, as you know, because you end up talking to a lot of them, we co star, co host a number of civilian and military leaders from around the world. Attachés, ambassadors, as you mentioned, UN representatives, superintendent and commandant equivalents, and dignitaries at all levels and across programs. I think two stick out to me from the past two years where we can think about, um, what they bring to the table for us.

A foreign minister and vice chancellor who brought, um, tremendous and candid insight on the current and future state of NATO, power relations across Europe writ large, the war in Ukraine, and this visit was just several weeks after the war in Ukraine had broken out, and its potential broader implications, and really helped us understand the real power of the mil to mil, military to military, and political relationship between his country and the United States.

I'd also think of one partner's representative to the United States who is now a vice president elect. And when we were engaging with her, we were focusing a lot on the academic theme of the year, civil military relations. And we had some really enlightening conversations with her in which she shared her own perspective.

Her experience from her country about how historical, cultural, and political elements can influence the relationship between the armed forces and citizens. Influence how the armed forces and service in the armed forces are viewed. And that really helped our faculty and our cadets think about how our own armed forces, our own citizens, and the roles we have in how the armed forces are viewed.

The roles we have in maintaining trust with the public. And what could be a dynamic? And when I say dynamic, I mean, a changing environment.

[00:21:28] Dean: So as you're talking, John, there may be a perception that the Department of Foreign Languages is just teaching you to speak Spanish or teaching you to teach or to speak French.

That's not the case. What you just discussed is there's significantly more depth to the program then simple like the language skill is important, but it is actually not perhaps the most important thing. Some of the things that you just discussed and also some other things that you trigger to my mind when you talk about, uh, when you start to, when you start to discuss looking through another lens.

You start talking about critical thinking, you start thinking about not being, being too binary in how you approach things, and empathy, a lack of hubris in approaching other cultures. I mean, you're really talking like a term that I know you talk a lot about, which is cross cultural competency. That's part of the, the driving force behind why the Department of Foreign Languages is so important in our cadets development.

And so can you talk a little bit about cross cultural competency?

[00:22:29] Baskerville: Sure. So, um, you can find numerous definitions for cross cultural competency. So what kind of cobbled together some things that I think sum it up well, but pull from a number of sources. So let's think about it as having an awareness of cultural differences and commonalities An awareness of where they may reside and how they might manifest, with the goal that increased awareness will help you interact more effectively in different cultural environments.

So, for language study, we can focus on language. Being so deeply rooted in shaping, being shaped by reflecting and influencing elements of culture like habits, beliefs, attitudes, and perspectives. So that's how we initially start thinking about cross cultural competence and how the language intersects and comes in there.

And you did mention linguistic proficiency. I don't want to set up a, any type of a false dichotomy or just diminish the idea of linguistic proficiency, because that really helps us more deeply analyze, understand, and participate in the culture. And as we participate through communication, we can talk of intercultural communication, which is, you know, we talked about cross cultural competence, but in intercultural communication.

So, the linguistic proficiency. So, if someone moves on to linguistic proficiency, it can just help you access more elements of the culture, access them more deeply. But generally, as we're thinking about cross cultural competence, that's kind of a mindset, habits of mind, and things we want people to take away, no matter how long they've been with our language programs.

[00:24:16] Dean: And it's self evident why this is so important to leaders in the United States Army, and we're an expeditionary army. We, we, we fight in other places, in other cultures, in other countries, uh, typically in a non English speaking area. And so the ability to have this cross cultural competency, as you stated, supplemented by, um, linguistic competency makes us, it's really a combat multiplier.

I mean, and I, and I, and I would think that that's one of the driving factors behind how we teach cadets and what we teach them. Is that true?

[00:24:50] Baskerville: It's absolutely true. It's absolutely true.

[00:24:53] Dean: And in our education of cadets, can you just lay out a bit what every cadet's experience is when it comes to their interaction with the Department of Foreign Languages and then cadets that decide to major in a particular language, what their experience is like?

[00:25:06] Baskerville: So the requirement is two semesters of a language. And when I talk to the plebs that are coming in, I do remind them that we don't, we can't validate language here. We don't think of it as if you have a certain level of proficiency. Well, then you don't need to take language, you've accomplished what you need to accomplish.

We think about the things that we're doing in our classroom as they are developing as leaders at the university level, integrated with everything else in the academic program as being important to their development. So they could be absolutely fluent in a language. Then they'll either start with another language or start with a very high level, but the things we take them through, the habits of mind, the mindset, as they know they're going to be leaders, we think are important.

So if you're in two semesters with us, you'll get some specific knowledge, but more so a foundation of habits, mindsets, and attributes that serve you well as you move through the academic program, prepare to be leaders, and set you up for lifelong learning. Second, I just reiterate the idea of an alternate cultural and linguistic lens through which to view and think about the world, even if we're talking about working at the beginner level.

I just want to mention that that's critical for effective engagements around the world, and that's what we're focusing on a lot today, but it's also critical on day one when lieutenants are encountering a new platoon, they could have soldiers from diverse linguistic and cultural backgrounds across the country. So that same habit, that same mindset of understanding, commonalities, understanding differences, how they manifest and how to engage effectively will help you day one in your platoon.

[00:26:53] Dean: Which, which is exactly one of our, the goals of the academic program is to make sure officers, when our cadets become officers and walk across that stage. That they can effectively communicate both orally and in writing.

[00:27:05] Baskerville: It also reminds me of one of the themes that may run through this discussion about the benefits of leaders studying language and culture. That is the idea that as we look at various cultures, through various languages, we have another lens to think about ideas like service, commitment, professional identity.

And after we've thought about it in a different context, When we come back and look at ourselves, we have a broader, more informed view of what it means to serve, and in our case, pledge an oath to a constitution.

[00:27:40] Dean: And now that's, that would be in our core curriculum, which again, I'll reiterate it.

Every cadet will take 24 core courses, which establishes the intellectual foundation. Uh, we expect our graduates and those range from all the various disciplines, but then we supplement the core curriculum and, and really try to encourage intellectual curiosity and, and create that, uh, appetite for lifelong learning through our various majors.

And we have 36 of those majors. And of course, cadets can major, uh, in a particular language. And so what exactly are you hoping the cadets come out of when they major in one of the eight languages?

[00:28:18] Baskerville: You'll see that in our majors courses like media, military. Civilization Courses, Literature Courses, and our Independent Studies.

And what we see is not only a higher level of language, but an ability to front language, cultural, and regional expertise for analysis and to gain insight into issues. So we're doing that through exploring media, literature, civilization, and film, but also for us and our mission. We're thinking about insight and perspective on real world security challenges.

And I'll mention again language proficiency because it's implied and necessary here. Because your ability to understand a higher level of complex language That really opens the door to the perspective that otherwise would be imperceptible. Also, for our majors, we think about the ability to participate and interact effectively at a high level with various audiences.

And that could include interactions with allies, partners, and distinguished visitors , Finally, an attribute that we should be developing in our programs at all levels is critical thinking. When we think about exploring alternate perspectives, historical context, cultural meanings, we should build habits of mind in which we are more apt to consider all those elements as we encounter a new environment.

And when we think about considering and analyzing more elements, gaining more perspective, more context, and then using that to form sound judgment, that's what I consider critical thinking as we're thinking about the definitions and, and what these terms mean.

[00:30:01] Dean: So pragmatically, what you just described, fills a gap that was recognized in, the Iraq study group and in 2000 December 2006 and the report there was a couple of excerpts, which I think Indicate why the US Army would have such an interest in creating these type of Officers that you just you just highlighted that we try to do in our program One one quote says our efforts in Iraq military and civilian are handicapped by Americans lack of language and cultural understanding In a conflict that demands effective and efficient communication with Iraqis, we are often at a disadvantage.

And they further quote, two pages later on page 94, As an intelligence analyst told us, we rely too much on others to bring information to us, and too often don't understand what is reported back because we don't, we do not understand the context of what we are told. And so, it is a really critically important that we have Subject matter experts that can understand a culture, can understand a people, can understand a language and be able to, to really filter between, you know, filter through, uh, the information to determine what is truth, what isn't truth, what is, uh, what is important, how are we going to be most effective.

But I also think more broadly what you described is, is again, one of the things that separates the, the U. S. Army officer, which is our, our officer's ability to out think our enemies to be critical thinkers that to have the ability to look at a problem in any environment and Be able to rely on their education I received at West Point and be able to to be creative and to innovate and to be Entrepreneurial and how they approach a problem and what you're talking about is exactly creating those type of critical thinking officers I can can navigate through that space.

How did the capstones facilitate, creating that type of officer?

[00:31:55] Baskerville: So for our capstone projects, we generally have cadets working in the, they may do some work in the first semester of their first year or senior year to lay the foundation, to start some of their research, but they're doing a lot of the work in the second semester.

So their last semester at West Point. And generally they're working in small groups, maybe three to four cadets per group, and they're looking at, they're taking their language, regional and culture, competence, skills, expertise, and using that, fronting that as they look at real world security challenges that confront the United States.

So I just have a couple. Yeah. Where cadets are gaining the type of insight that we need. And I'll also mention that , they're often working with combatant commands, staffs on combatant commands, Army Service Component commands, working with parts of the Office of Secretary of Defense, working with potentially National Guard or Special Forces units.

Um, working with across the interagency and with partners to work on real problems that these partners are thinking about, or real challenges they're thinking about, or things they're trying to understand. And the cadets bringing their language, regional expertise, and, um, cultural competence really gives them a different view.

[00:33:26] Dean: And typically that is solving some sort of, uh, complicated problem that the army's having.

[00:33:32] Baskerville: So we had one group last year and they're following up in a different location this year. This year, but looking at. Burkina Faso last year and looking at the Wagner group communicating in that area. What cultural symbols are they tapping into?

What things are they trying to communicate about France, about Russia, about their own operations? And what things are they trying to say linguistically? How are they trying to tap into maybe historical narratives? How are they trying to tap into symbols and cultural cues that would make their message resonate in those areas and do things that would cleave alliances or hurt strategic partnerships or set themselves better postured in the area?

We had one defense look at, or one team that's a Chinese language team looking at civil defense in Taiwan. And they analyzed how the concept of civil defense has evolved in Taiwan since the Democratic Progressive Party came to power in 2016. And there they were using, looking at discourse analysis. They were looking at media sources, official government statements, and they could notice a shift in Taiwan's citizens preparedness to mobilize.

They're ideology into collective action with the creation of the citizen led civil defense organizations. So again, looking for cues through the language, through the culture that help us understand where things may be going that have security type implications. And you attended this one. We had a group of cadets who were studying German, and they were trying to analyze and better understand the recruiting challenges that we're having in the United States.

But what they did was conduct a study of how the German Bundeswehr tried to tackle its own recruiting challenges. For example, some of the questions may look like, what are the historical narratives and historical memory that may inhibit recruiting? How are military forces currently perceived and portrayed?

How do they examine cultural and social issues and how those issues may serve as inhibitors to young men and women signing up to serve? How do they go about finding the right language? Images, scenarios to communicate effectively with young women and men that are of age to serve. And then thinking about all of that, how do they do all of that analysis while also portraying a professional identity that suits the institution.

They were looking at German digital recruiting videos, websites, web series, and things along those lines. And they understood that they weren't looking for the same cultural and linguistic cues because we're talking about different societies. What they were looking at was, what could we learn from the Bundeswehr approach and bring back to our own force?

If they picked up on historical or cultural inhibitors and found an effective way to overcome them, through how they communicated to various audiences, through what they portrayed, then we, our cadets, would have to think about what would be the analogous inhibitors and subsequent approach in the U. S.

How do we effectively reach our own public and help our own youth understand what it means to commit to service? in a way that resonates. So that, that takes a very high level of German linguistic proficiency, cultural, social, and historical knowledge of Germany. But it also forces these young leaders to think about how to potentially bridge gaps in our own country, in our own society.

[00:37:23] Dean: Fascinating to be at that presentation with the cadets. First off, they're briefing extremely high level individuals, so there's a nervousness in them. And so there's just the ability to stand up and present their findings in German, in front of a panel of experts as well as some very high level officials from the Pentagon.

It was interesting to watch them actually. Looking to solve an army problem. And, but for me, the most important thing was watching the intellectual maturation that they had gone through and how they were thinking and approaching the problem. Um, versus just a, a superficiality saying we can, we can watch this video and figure it out to actually putting some deep analysis and putting some data analytics behind, behind their approach.

[00:38:06] Baskerville: No, absolutely. And also having some humility and understanding what the limits of certain types of research are and where you'd run into places where you have to say, okay, I'm going to have to extrapolate here and pull some analogies here. But understanding those types of things and understanding that bit of humility, but understanding the power of.

Um, being able to use those lenses for analysis.

[00:38:27] Dean: You're one of the army's experts in, in your field. And that has played out where there has been situations while teaching at West Point, where you've been asked to go and take your particular expertise away from, and I agree with you, the, the most powerful thing we can do is impact this future generation of leaders. But at times your particular skillset might be needed. And so in 2015, 16, you were, you were asked, to go spend some time in Kuwait and Jordan. So can you talk to me a little bit about that, leaving the academy for that year to do that?

[00:38:59] Baskerville: Yeah. So in the summer of 2015, I deployed in support of what was called combined joint or it's called combined joint task force operation, inherent resolve. I was stood up in October 2014 as the military operation to defeat the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant, which we now commonly refer to as ISIS, the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria.

When I first arrived, the army forces of central command, primarily in Kuwait, had the mission of running the joint task force. In September, III Corps assumed that responsibility, and by that time I was with the headquarters forward in Baghdad. So, looking at various sources and open official reports now, the task force's general mission is advising, assisting, and enabling partner forces until they can independently maintain the defeat of ISIS, and then setting the conditions for longer term security cooperation frameworks. And I must mention, as we're talking about international exchanges and things here at the Academy, an incredibly important and indispensable part of that effort was the coalition.

And looking at a 2023 Inspector General report, it notes an 86 member global coalition to defeat ISIS with 29 troop contributing countries. My role was the Director of Key Leader Engagement, basically working with the three star commander and his staff on strategic engagements that would facilitate the coordination necessary.

And also the influence necessary to accomplish the mission, to bring forces together to accomplish the mission. We had a regular rotation of meetings with the Minister of Defense, National Security Advisor, police forces, counter terrorism forces, sometimes tribal chiefs. And the commander had regular engagements in the Kurdish region.

And I'll, I'll say the um, as I look back and think about it, what stood out to me was the complexity of the mission. First, really trying to understand the implications of the destruction ISIS had caused for the future stability of the region. A group like this wreaking such havoc within a state and across state borders.

They had established caliphate, and what, uh, trying to understand what that meant, real or imagined, for state and regime legitimacy in the region. Some things they represented lay bare or exacerbated existing intra regional cleavages. They had a modern day model that they represented for unleashing savagery on human beings like we had not seen in the modern day, or I don't know that we've even imagined.

But at the same time, they had an ability to recruit locally and internationally, indicating some measure of resonance in certain spaces for their message and their symbolism. The task force itself had a complexity. We had a combined joint task force headquarters, a land component, naval component, air component, and special operations component.

Quite spread out geographically, but all with overarching missions, but with a different nature to some of their activities. So, trying to have those mission subsets synchronize, and more importantly, synchronizing effects was another complex thing. Then thinking about internal power struggles and distrust among factions within states and across the region, and how that affected the cooperation, sharing, and collaboration.

And the speed and urgency sometimes that we'd have forces going after places, had regional players, some who clear adversaries operating in the environment, especially through their proxies. So we're trying not to further empower them or set conditions for their increased strength, strengthen any aftermath global players to include adversaries and competitors.

Thinking about where they may see opportunities to actually or symbolically further their worldview through what was transpiring, through the narratives they could spin on how the mission was going, and then finally keeping the coalition together. Working as a cohesive unit while navigating political and diplomatic sensitivities, both domestically and internationally.

[00:43:28] Dean: The benefit to the academy of that experience is you bring it back, you're a department head, and that helps you influence, uh, what you want the cadets to take out of the program. And, that's critical, but you probably also have some examples or thoughts in your head, where there may have been some hard lessons where you've seen a lack of cultural competence, where it either caused a failure or potentially a missed opportunity.

Because you're talking, you know, you talk about that large coalition, but we make mistakes. And so do you have any, in this broad experience that you've had, particularly in, uh, what I'd call, you know, cross cultural competency, where have you seen some lessons, hard lessons?

[00:44:10] Baskerville: The Iraq study group, because that captures it right there.

It's written, it's historic about the lack of cross cultural competence or perceived lack of cross cultural competence operating in Iraq. And so I would think back to. One place where commands were trying to remedy that early on, and that's primarily the cultural shortfall that can give us some insight into what those perceived shortfalls were, and that was at the Peace Operation Training Center in Zarka, Jordan.

Specifically, there was a cultural awareness course with U. S. soldiers from Army Forces of Central Command, I being among the U. S. officers. Working with Jordanian allies to train troops who came from units throughout the U. S. and Germany headed to Iraq. And I was there in the 2005 time frame, maybe early 2006 time frame.

And a lot of the focus was on customs, practices, social norms within their culture, such as hierarchy and power distribution in social structures, symbols and the importance of honor and humiliation, especially as they related to family structures, the importance and implication of cultural to include religious symbols, markers, and practices.

So that's one where we had recognized some shortfalls in our operations and not understanding some of those cultural elements and how, uh, It could have detrimental tactical effects, but probably some detrimental operational to strategic effects, as it would happen enough and depending on how it's propagated or displayed.

[00:45:51] Dean: How would you see this maybe as it moves from the tactical into more of an operational strategic component?

[00:45:58] Baskerville: So as we're thinking about moving from practices and customs to maybe attitudes, beliefs, and perspectives.

That's probably how we think about moving from tactical to operational or perhaps strategic implications of culture. So, as opposed to cultural implications affecting actions and interactions in a discrete tactical environment, we could think of things along the lines of narratives, larger myths, deep rooted cultural references, shaping or reshaping of historical perspectives that could resonate with allies or potential allies.

And that could strengthen or weaken an alliance. We could think of information or disinformation, but rooted in cultural elements that could affect the larger will of a population to support an effort, or could affect the identity connection of certain parts of a population, which could affect their will to support an effort, to see themselves manifest correctly in an area.

And those could affect the legitimacy of a fighting force or even the legitimacy of a regime. So those are a couple of ways where we take it to a little bit, maybe higher level of perspectives, attitudes, beliefs, and think about it from discrete tactical to more strategic.

[00:47:23] Dean: Do you have any examples of where you see language and cross cultural competency helping, and innovative approaches.

[00:47:31] Baskerville: Yes. And in the department, we think of this in two ways. First, how do we innovate in our teaching curriculum and how we think about the discipline? We also think about how do we engage with cadets so that they will possess the habits of mind and attributes that will make them lifelong innovative leaders.

Flexibility, nimbleness, the willingness to look at multiple facets of an argument to arrive at the best solution. So I'll just talk a little bit about the department in, in a couple of areas. First, innovation in teaching and curriculum.

We've got language programs that are making community connections. And so they're thinking about applied public humanities where we can take language and culture expertise to improve community relations or a community's access to services. We had one language program that was working with a community and their access to the library services in that community and helping them understand what was available, why it may make sense to access it, and helping them improve in that area. We look at artificial intelligence for pedagogical purposes. ChatGPT, for instance. We've had one language program have cadets submit A written composition to CHAT GPT. CHAT GPT would suggest changes, or suggest corrections or changes, and then the cadets would have to figure out, do they accept those changes, and explain why they accepted or didn't accept the changes.

Perhaps they had a better way of capturing what they wanted to say. We've also used ChatGPT to do an initial analysis of some kind of speech or something along those lines, and then have cadets come back and say, Okay.

You come back and do a critical analysis of what Chat GPT has said, bringing the things that you understand linguistically, culturally, and bringing human empathy to the situation.

So as we've thought about our capstone projects and seeing some of the things that our cadets have done in the past, before we even talked about the theme, but things that give us good examples of innovation and how we can move forward with this, one example might be looking at a project that cadets did on underground warfare, it's called underground warfare, the Austrian approach.

And again, this stems from a discussion about some potential capability gaps or some things that we'd want to explore a little bit further, reference multiple domains. This domain being the underground domain. So we had a group of DFL firsties majoring in German conduct field research on the Austrian Army's underground combat operations facility to look at potential opportunities, lessons, and things we might be able to incorporate as the U. S. Army. And, interestingly, the access to the facility was coordinated by one of the firstie cadets through contacts that he had made while he was on semester abroad in Austria. So he was able to pull on those contacts and relations right away.

[00:50:39] Dean: Hard to even describe how relevant that is when you think about.

The 300 miles plus of tunnels that are exist in Gaza and how much underground warfare has become such a component of urban warfare. And it looks like it will throughout any type of conflict, uh, in an urban environment.

[00:51:00] Baskerville: Absolutely, and again, they were able to really draw on some of the experiences that the Austrians had and that, not that we could apply 100 percent exactly what they did, but things that we could do that are analogous, things that would spur ideas of, wait a minute, we have these capabilities, maybe we could incorporate them or use them like that.

And not only did it give us the, um, connectivity, and that's one of the points we think about for innovation, being able to learn from our partners. It also helped us think about interoperability, which is incredibly important as we think about moving forward and working as coalitions, which we've mentioned once or twice before.

So it gave the cadets some great exposure to those types of things, working with the real force, looking at real world security challenges.

[00:51:44] Dean: So I'd like to give our guests an opportunity to plug their department. Usually, I give them 30 seconds, but because you're a language department, one minute. In one minute or less, why should a future officer major in a program in the Department of Foreign Languages?

[00:52:00] Baskerville: The Army and nation need leaders who can build and lead diverse, cohesive teams, communicate effectively, understand and operate in harmony. Effectively in complex environments, think critically and creatively and internalize their professional identity. Our programs, both in and out of the classroom, help develop those traits by honing cross cultural competence, clear, accurate communication, and critical thinking skills by providing another lens through which to reflect upon culture, Professional roles, responsibilities, providing the opportunity to flaunt linguistic, culture, regional expertise to provide insight on real world security challenges and strengthening one's ability to interact effectively in a foreign language with any number of audiences.

And finally, by providing real world experience and effective interaction with partners and strategic allies around the world, all delivered by a staff and faculty who serve as dedicated, professional role models and mentors.

[00:53:12] Dean: We're going to move into some rapid fire questions, John. Are you prepared to receive?

Here you go. Alright. What's the hardest class you've ever taken?

[00:53:21] Baskerville: Pleap swimming. Closely followed by Physics class. I think I got misplaced into an advanced physics class somehow. I was in class with people that enjoyed physics the way I enjoyed language. Sure. And I, um, was out of place.

[00:53:39] Dean: You made it. If you could have lunch with any historic person, who would it be?

[00:53:46] Baskerville: Sir, if I could get two seats, that would be perfect. I would I think Frederick Douglass and Abraham Lincoln together, and I might do a small little fireside chat or just at lunch where we just have some discussions on thinking about service, where the country is, cleavages, and how we move forward.

[00:54:10] Dean: What's the best advice you ever received?

[00:54:14] Baskerville: I don't remember exactly where I received this advice, but it's cobbled together from a number of places. I think the best advice is to take deliberate time for self reflection on a regular basis and really take a tough account of how you've operated. And so as I think about the job I'm in now, I quite regularly go back and say, how did you do in that interaction?

Do you think you built trust or eroded trust in that interaction? Do you think you communicated clearly enough to whomever you were communicating what was said? Do you think they would give you the benefit of the doubt if you said or did something right now and they saw it out of context and it looked like it may harm them?

So those are the types of things that I do on a pretty daily basis of just reflecting on how my interactions and the things that I've written, said, or done might.

[00:55:15] Dean: What's the biggest difference at the academy from when you were a cadet?

[00:55:21] Baskerville: I think two things I would think of. One is a general sense of Perhaps a little bit more of a developmental as opposed to a nutritional model where you might think of weeding out the week or somebody just didn't make it but transitioned or it's just not strong enough or good enough to make it to a transition of what we've brought this person in, we've invested in them.

Let's do what we think we need to do that makes sense with the resources we have for development and see what happens. And the second is just, we've talked so much about. semester abroad and immersion opportunities. I think the incredible number of opportunities that are available for cadets to really broaden, get out and about and learn things is quite different.

[00:56:11] Dean: Mine, by the way, is technology, like phones, you know, social media. That's like the biggest change.

[00:56:17] Baskerville: You know, we were the first, the class of 1990 was the first class to get issued computers.

[00:56:24] Dean: It's all been downhill since I've been moving.

All right. So thanks for joining us, John. Be sure to tune in to the Inside West Point Ideas That Impact podcast next month.

Remember, you can find this podcast, as well as the other podcasts, journals, and books hosted or published by the West Point Press at westpointpress. com. Until next time.