Chris Kent 0:00

I was almost becoming the person I was pretending to be. I was like, yeah, get the fuck out of my face. I was really getting into it like this angry, young fella that was like just getting in his face and like really committed to the role. You're not

Alex Melia 0:13

welcome to stories of men beneath the surface.

Alex Melia 0:17

I'm Alex Amelia. Join me as we discover what it means to be a man in the modern era.

Alex Melia 0:30

Today's episode is the story of the way a young man dealt with a violent attacker, someone who wouldn't see sense and how he's using those lessons today in raising his kids. Chris was bullied as a young lad in school, he decided that the best thing to do would be to join a boxing club. He was 14 and it was 1999. Rocky and Bruce Lee movies had made a big impression. Boxing gave him discipline and confidence. It taught him how to look after himself. A few years later, Chris got a job at a butcher's in Cork City, where he met a boy called Gavin.

Chris Kent 1:08

One day, I was carrying in this big massive piece of meat. And he was messing with me underwear and I was kind of messing with him. I walked from the van into the market into the fridge where I had to meet behind the meter. And the guys behind me and he's like, give it out to me. Call me if I can prick and oh my god, you got blood on my shirt and all this and I was like, I told him we just mess and I sincerely thought he was just taking the piss out of me. As I go. Yeah, whatever. It's, it's an ugly shirt. Anyway, I was joking. I was joking back. And he said, I'm gonna get somebody after you. Again, I thought he was messing with was a couple of weeks later, I was in town. I was in a Burger King having some food with my friend Michael, who is probably my only smaller friend. And I see Gavin across the way and he's there. And one of his mates is with him. Really big guy being kind of overweight guy eating burger very angrily. And looking at me. I was a little bit terrified. But it was also funny how tough he was trying to look almost. So we got up and we walked out at a Burger King and, and they got up immediately to and they sat on a walk in after us and their walks down a couple of streets after us. We walked down Patrick Street, we did a little turn and we walked down the opposite side of Patrick Street, and he's still walking after me get nervous at this point. Now, I was afraid if I kept walking, he was going to just hit me or something was going to happen. And I'm like shit. I think the only way to deal with this now, I think I'm gonna have to turn around and just getting this guy's face. And I did I got in his face. And I was like, What's your effing problem? Who the hell do you think you're following? And he basically back down. He walked away with his mate. And I was like, okay, good. Problem solved. So it was a couple of weeks later after that, then I was getting a bus out of town. I was sitting on a bus stop. I remember it was raining, it was dark. I was just asked to leave my girlfriend. And the guy is there again. And he's just walking towards me punching the palm of his own hand or as he walks towards me and I'm like, oh shit here. Here we go again. He's just talking to random stuff to me. No, like you did this to my cousin, your dad to my cousin. I'm like, I know what you're talking about. So I taught Okay, repeat the f1 Go again. Get in his face. I got in his face. I got really angry. I was like, What's your fucking problem? We're kind of squaring off and he walks away again. So my adrenaline for these two instances? No, it's absolutely flying. Absolutely flying. It takes me ages to calm down afterwards. Even you know, I was almost becoming the person I was pretending to be. I was like, yeah, get the fuck out of my face. I was really getting into it like this angry, young fella that was like just getting in his face and like really committed to the role. You know, a couple of weeks later, I was walking in town again, I was with my girlfriend at the time, totally helpless to any attack. My arms are wrapped around her and her arms are wrapped around me and we were walking around in unison and Cork city. And I saw the guy again, he was drunk. I got an immediate bad feeling and immediate bad feeling. Now there was a couple of his friends there and there was two or three girls there as well. It all happened very quickly. I had my arm around her and I walked past him. And I remember he said my name. And I turned my head and he punched me right in the side of the eye. And I remember it now hurting actually. He was such a big guy but he did not know how to draw a punch. So I slipped my arm out and I punched him. I've never hit someone outside of boxing club before and that did feel good to be honest because it landed and he fell back and it was much smaller than me. I and his friends cheered me. There was a bit of a costume then between us, his friends kind of broken up a little bit. Then there was another bit of a commotion. And then we went our separate ways. And I was like, right, okay, that guy's shots are fired now.

Alex Melia 5:19

So Chris, what happened after that?

Chris Kent 5:21

I remember walking home, I just walked home, I didn't want to get the bus or anything. I walked from town out to my house. I went into town looking for the guy the next day, not for a fight or anything like that. Just to go What, what, what is going on here like? So I remember me and my friends were talking to him. And he was just talking mad nonsense. And I was like, wow, what are you like? What is this over? My friend and was like, Look, you jumped out from behind? Do you want to settle it now? Have a fair fight the two of you. I'm here. Now he's there face to face. You can have a fair fight and endless forever. And I remember the guy was like, no, no, it's good. He shook my hand and he shook my buddy's hand. And he said, No, no, that's the end of it now. And we walked our separate ways.

Alex Melia 6:06

After so many run ins with this guy. Did you ever see him again?

Chris Kent 6:10

I'm guessing it was maybe seven or eight months later, I was getting on the bus from the city to go to my girlfriend's house. And the kid Gavin was there on the bus. And he was like, Chris, I'm really sorry. I'm so sorry about that guy. He's not even my cousin. I'm sorry. I got America you. It was gone crazy. I was like, okay. Don't worry about it. I said, it's all done. No, anyway, it's fine. We settled it. And there's, there's no, there's no, there's no problem. And I was like, how easy anyway, I just said that as an off remark. And he went, Oh, he's in jail. And I was like, what? And he's like, yeah, he's been locked up for murder. I think I took it quite calmly actually. I was like, alright, yeah, cool. And I went on, and the guy was on the news. Like, it was on the news. It was on Irish RTE, like the guy that I had a fight with. He was dear on the news. And I heard all these stories then about him afterwards, in hindsight, that he was a bit crazy. And I'm not sure if he's even. It was him and another guy, I can't say too much more are involved in this horrible case in Cork, you know, it was just mad that this was the guy. I thought I was doing the right thing the whole time, standing up to this guy. And I still think it might have been the right thing to do. Because had I had a of quivered are settled down, or there was no other way out of it for me, like my back was literally to the wall.

Alex Melia 7:37

When you're watching this on the news in the living room, what's going through your head? Are you thinking back to all the scenarios that you've had with this guy? Yeah,

Chris Kent 7:44

I'm like, ma'am, that's the guy. That's the guy that that I was in a fight with in town. And she didn't seem too bothered by it. She was like, Okay, fair enough. But that's he's on trial now. For what? I think I was kind of probably relieved that I settled the beef and went in and went, Okay, that's it. No, I was happy. I was genuinely happy to do that. I was like, I don't want any more trouble off you. Like, you know, I don't know what the hell, especially because I did not. It definitely went through my head. He's capable of doing a horrible thing, or at least begin there when a horrible thing happens. So it made me think it made me think you don't know who the hell you're messing with. And you don't know what anybody is capable of. And sometimes there isn't a right or wrong way to approach anything, you know. And I think my advice now would be, I've always been like, avoided at all costs. That's probably the only fight I've ever been in, to be honest, outside, outside boxing as the only fight I've ever been in. I've, I've disarmed quite a few of them. And I've calmed a few. And I've talked people and myself and other people out of the field. But I think, at all costs, avoid it, you know.

Alex Melia 9:01

So what I find interesting is, you weren't looking for this trouble at all. It just seemed to repeat itself. And it seemed to the king kind of came constantly back to you. I don't know why he kept backing down but then wanting it. Wanting to have a fight again afterwards. It was it was such a strange thing, but it clearly he wasn't rites of mind, I suppose.

Chris Kent 9:23

Maybe he wasn't used to that reaction. Judging by how he was carrying on, you know, he probably wasn't used to someone turned round and squaring off, I guess you would call it. Like I said, I didn't even want to do that. But I just felt like this is the safest way out of this. He obviously just got it in his head. And he wanted a reason to beat someone up, maybe because he was hanging on her own, but maybe he was trying to prove something to them. Maybe he was like, Oh, this guy this maybe he was like this guy is the bully and I'm going to teach him a lesson. No, I've never done anything to anybody. I'd only been the victim of bullying really,

Alex Melia 9:56

you know, when you were telling this story, because it made me Think back to the fights I've had. The bits that make me most scared is the squaring off. I find that sort of side of things, the confrontational side where you're looking into someone else's eyes, and you're, you're squaring up to each other, I find that more scary than the actual punching in and whatever else goes on in a fight, do you not? Do you feel the same?

Yeah, I find all of it quite scary, to be honest. I mean, even if it's just so dangerous. Now, even if you get better at somebody, you just hear so many horror stories, someone getting one punch. And something awful happened and like they fall back and hit their head, you know, and whether it's self defense or not. So just to tired of fighting at all out in the street, I would do anything to avoid us. I don't, I don't care if it's me running away. And everyone's like, what is the guy running? I don't care. I've been in that situation, but a few people have gotten in my face. And I'm like, I actually see a quake cam No, mostly. It's happened a couple of times since I steer quake cam. And I'm more so trying to discern the situation and step back a bit.

A lot of professional boxers and Black Belt karate guys Judo or whatever. And you actually say to them, or how many street fights have you ever had? And most of them always say to me, non. Yeah,

yeah. Because it's there's more of a discipline in it. I remember I remember joining boxer underwear, like lads, you're not fighting outside, like if you do, you're not coming to, you're not coming with us. We don't we don't want to know about it. Like, you know, and there was massive respect, especially in the boxing club as well between us. We were spying on each other. And, you know, and then cheering each other on and sometimes in tournaments ended up having to fight someone in your club. And it was I absolutely loved it. I only boxed for a couple of years. And I lost most of my fights, I think. But I was in it. I joined quite late at 15. But I was just I was totally obsessed with it. For the years that I wasn't, you know, it was like, I guess I guess I was so afraid of fighting. Before I did it. I was terrified of getting into a fight. Every every Wednesday and Friday night and I was heading into the club and we were basically fighting I suppose sparring. At the end of the night. I was like, well, this isn't that bad. And you know, if someone gets the better of you, it's like, and then you get the better and the following week. And it's just a bit like odd, isn't it? There's not massively to be afraid of here actually.

There's something I really respect about whether it's professional boxers or amateur boxers or just any boxer, because they've trained themselves so much to get to the point where they don't even need to fight. They give off this energy. I remember meeting this scrawny guy from Glasgow, and quite quiet, but he just gave off this energy of like, don't mess with me, because you know, I will do damage. I mean, obviously, like we were we weren't very friendly towards each other. But I just got that sense from him that if anyone caused any trouble, that he would be able to look after them. No problem whatsoever. And he just doesn't need to get himself into that situation because people feel people feel that I don't know if that's some sort of like an energy that you that you get after doing so much sparring. It's almost like a like an invisible belt.

I think remaining Kavanaugh situations maybe gives off that energy, you know, but I guess there's some people that are just beyond that then and they're just they're just it doesn't matter if you're going to kick off. Like I said, you do know what anybody is capable of, or or anyone. You know, anyone's background is that like scrawny go from Glasgow, like he looked like? Someone would think nothing of probably having a fight with someone like that. But then you figure out the hard way. It's not clear that it was a bad it was a bad idea.

It feels different nowadays. I mean, I'm 35 years old, you're 38. So 20 years ago, you know, you're 15 I was 15 years old. You would sell things in a fight situation now. You worried about knives coming out and things like that.

Yeah, no, it's terrible. absolutely terrified of my kids growing up to be teenagers. And you see this stuff happening nowadays? There was a little bit of it when I was growing up, but it certainly seems to be far more prevalent now. You know, from teenagers and it seems to be digit digits have no, not all of them. But like there's no respect at all for life or really hurting someone you know, because even if I did get into a fight, like it did when we spared and all that it was never really trying to hurt anybody. It was never like you never got joy out of that. Like I remember sparing guys and every now and again, you'd land a decent punch or you might blood someone's nose or something. I never really went or Yes, that was you know, I was just kind of off. There'll be a mutual respect here. And it'd be like afterwards you'd be like, even when it came to an actual fighter was a mutual respect there. But I think the street, it's always been different anyway. But ya know, it is with weapons off, it's terrifying. What is even more, which is even more of a reason just to go, if it's at all costs, get get it get away from it. And, you know, get get out of harm's way like, you know,

what do you say to your son if he's at school and is having issues or some kid says I want to fight your next day or something and he comes home and says, Dad, this has happened at school? What kind of advice would you give to him?

My kids are quite young at the moment or need to three and six, every now and again has been like someone hit me or someone hit me or my immediate reaction will be hit them back. But it's not really the right thing to say my wife was like, no, no, just just just tell them you do not like that, and go and tell it tell a teacher or defuse the situation that way. I also don't want them to be afraid, you know,

I'm not a parent myself right now. But I'm imagine it my immediate response, like you said, hit them back. If they hit you hit them back. But then it's, you know, are you teaching your kids the right, the right things by saying that?

I don't think so. Like my wife has knows an awful lot more about kids than I do. And I think that she's far more common sense. And that in that way, you know, you know, obviously defend yourself by let's say, you know, defend yourself and push them out of the way or you know, are stuck them from hitting you or move out of their way, and then tell somebody that they're hitting Yeah, and you don't want them to hit you anymore. You know, like me, I guess I'm trying to raise them the way I was raised, I was never ever looking for trouble, that trouble came to me. I was never ever out looking for trouble. So if I can, at least if they can be like that. And something happens, then maybe they have to trust their own judgment and and do what I did and square up to the guy or are anticipate them gonna hit you are, like get get get away if you can't, but if it comes to it, you know, try and anticipate what they're going to do. And if you have to hit them back, you know, do it, I guess and defend yourself at all costs and get out of here. I know teenagers, like we're just talking about there have a bad rap at the moment. But a lot of them are amazing as well. You know, I mean, I've done some gigs now in the last couple of months, and I did a gig in the Northside for shiner, light suicide awareness. There's this group of kids that are based out of the cabin studios up and up in a&e. And they're just incredible. They're all the sing. And they're rap and perform. And they're just incredible. And just to see the sense of how much they care about the people around them. And the lyrics that they wrote the songs about talking to someone if you're feeling down, and that really actually gives me as much dread as I have about my kids become teenagers. I'm like, oh, no, no, we just have to guide them in the right place. Because these kids, they were just incredible. You know, they were all on stage. And I was just I was just in awe of them.

Well, things have changed, I suppose a lot in the last 20 years where they they're saying, speak to someone if you're feeling upset or feeling sad about something? Would you have had someone to speak to 2025 years ago when this whole thing was going on with this guy?

Not really? Not really no, because even when I was getting there, I got a little bit bullied earlier on in life. I never really said it to anyone like you know, I'll just kind of got past the bullies. And I was just kind of talented every now and again by them. But it was it was very, it really doesn't feel nice at all, my head absolutely hated. It was detracted or going to do something to me more than anything. I'm so happy that teenagers are just starting to bring it into school. And so as well that are just able to talk and what my kids now today, even though they're only six and three, I try and talk to them as much as possible, if they're not feeling good. If they're upset, I'll just say come here and talk to me and what's going on what has you upset? And sometimes it's nothing like you know, and I'll go Oh, yeah, I feel like that some days as well. Just to strange thing, isn't it, but it's gonna pass and I try not to say to my kids, if I can, like stop crying stop doing this, stop doing that. Like, just let them have a little cry and talk to them about it and try and get them to express their emotions a bit more. Because I definitely didn't I definitely wasn't good at expression, my emotions until later in life. You're almost would feel ashamed to cry or something like that, you know? And you end up looking far worse, trying to hold in these tears and these emotions like it's just, it's, it's not it's not a nice feeling like, you know, my two kids are so different. You know, my boy is very passive. He will avoid confrontation. Even when I see him playing with other boys that are rough and tumble you know, my girl will hit back will hit first and I think it's just partier personality, I think you know, and you just have to try and guide the two of them as best as they can, you know, I want them to be able to come to me no matter what, no matter what they're feeling, as a parent as well, every now and again, I'll lose my patience, or I'll get really angry, or I'll snap. And I'll go back. And I'll apologize to them afterwards. And I say, I'm really sorry that I lost. I'm really sorry that I showed it earlier. I'm really sorry to that upset. Yeah, I just this this is this is what made me feel that way. Or whatever. I'm just trying to be as open with them as possible. You know,

when you say to them about just cry, just let it out. Just let it out. Do they have this look on their faces? Like? Yeah, because I really want to carry on crying. I don't want this sort of restriction of stop crying, stop crying.

I don't always say keep crying or do you cry? If you need to cry? I'd say I'd say oh, no, it's okay to feel that way. Do what you need to do. What I'm trying to stop myself saying is stop crying. No. Stop crying, stop crying. Go. It's okay. Take a breath. Take a breath. If they've hurt themselves, physically, and they start crying. I want you to stop crying, stop crying. I'll say if I can go It's alright. It's okay. You're fine. Now just try and reassure them. It's fine. What sort Oh, yeah. That was that sound Soria or trying to empathize with them? And, and then go, okay. Take a deep breath, take a deep breath. But you know, it's more. So every now and again, we'll dig into a little strange mood. Do you know they're just a little bit after a little bit quiet. And sometimes they'll just get a bit upset. And I'm like, oh, what's going on? And I'm trying, I'm just trying to figure out what's actually happening. And sometimes we'll get to it. We'll get to it. And then it'd be like, oh, yeah, two days ago, you didn't let me get this thing in the shop. And I'm like, okay, all right. I'm glad we got to it. And this is why you didn't get in the shot. And sometimes it's like, it's just my son mainly is probably of that age. He's like, I don't know, I don't know why I'm upset. I don't know why, on and on about our look, we you have had quite a hectic week, you know, you might have been on holidays with your cousins and your events. Like you've just had something so much going on all week. And all of a sudden, now you're on your own and are your backup mommy and daddy is maybe a little bit boring. It's a little bit much to take in or whatever. But I think it's important to tell them that all look, I'm I feel like that as well. Absolutely. I know, I know what's going on there. I feel like that as well. And I always try and bring it back to things like that just gives them a bit of reassurance and just want them to be able to cope with these emotions properly and not bottle it in like I did. You know, I remember being a kid I was quite soft is what people would have said, Oh, he's a bit soft. He's a bit of motion. And I would cry. And I felt like that was a bad thing. You know, I felt like that was a bad thing. And I was like, when I see him upset or him cry, and I do not want him to feel like it's a bad thing at all, like,

reassurance is massive, isn't it? That was the word that was coming to mind before you said that. Boys, kids, they want that reassurance from their parents. It's almost like this admission or this acceptance that it's this okay to feel vulnerable?

Yeah, because you want them to be able to cope, you want to give them the skills to as much as we all want to protect our kids as much as possible. Like, it's impossible, like, they're gonna face heartache, and they're gonna face rejection and are going to face, you know, just letting them letting them be upset as well and let them be in that. And sometimes it's because I'd have given them something, my wife hasn't given them something or we've been fairly firm and said no. And the easiest thing to do is to stop the crying or stop the meltdown is to give them what they wanted. And then you're just creating a massive chain reaction of Alright, I know how to get that thing now. I'll just I'll just, I'll just lose my shit for a couple of minutes. And my mom or dad will break you know. But in the long run, I think it's a bit of a better way to do. Yeah, it's

constantly remember being a kid you're constantly trying to test and and challenge your parents and see what you can get away with. My last question today is, how did you change as a man, after that whole scenario with that guy? How did you change? Who were you after that?

I was terrified of a street fight before that. And then it wasn't that bad. So I had less of a fear of that. But I still wanted to avoid it. I suppose it gave me a little bit of confidence when I found out what the guy had done and made me think, or you don't know who you're messing with. You know, that's still always on my mind. But growing up, I think there's far more things that changed me as a man rather than that, rather than that fight, you know, probably going back to what I'm talking about with my kids being able to open up, change me more as a man and athlete ever did. You know, I remember the first time I ever had to ask for help. I had gotten my mental health. I had a bit of a slide, doing stand up comedy and becoming a dad and the pressures of that on me. II because I love doing my job, but it's not exactly the most secure job in the world. But I love doing it and having that kind of you becoming a dad, no. Can you continue to do this? And then I started catastrophizing, everything, I put myself into a very bad situation that where I was, instead of challenging the tight I was I was going with them. I was like, Oh yeah, what if that does happen? And what if something even worse happens? I was very much catastrophizing, everything. I'd taken all my energy away from myself, but I wasn't telling anybody about it. I was having arguments that my wife every now and again, but it was never really seen how I was feeling. And it was one morning, I was really upset at the breakfast table. I was like crying and I was like, I don't know what to do anymore. And she said, You need to talk to somebody. And luckily, I was living in England at the time, I rang my local GP and, you know, fair pay to the NHS, someone, they immediately made me feel really good about calling, even though it was one of the most difficult calls I've ever made in my life. They made me you did the right thing well done. We know it's not easy. And I was like, Oh, my Yeah, immediately, I felt a bit of a weight lifted off me. I was like, Oh, Christ. That felt good. And I was talking to someone that day. And I was put on a program I was put on like CBT. And I'm not saying it's been plain sailing since then. Because I still fall into the same traps. And I still go down the same holes of getting spending too much time on social media and worrying too much about certain things. But now I feel like I have more tools to deal with it like you know. So that's probably changed me more as a man than anything was opening up and being vulnerable.

It's crazy to think that Chris had several altercations with a future murderer. And it's made me think what is the right answer? Should we avoid fighting? Or should we just fight back boxing coach told me many years ago, that the best way to prepare for a street fight was to get as good at sprinting as possible to run away as fast as you can. This definitely was not the advice I was expecting, especially from a boxing coach, I feel that within myself with this advice is quite difficult to actually employ because when you're in the heat of the moment, your ego wants to say that you don't want to be a coward, you don't want to be seen as a coward or to feel like a coward. So you feel like you need to hit back to retain your masculinity in some way. Because for me personally, I think it'd be quite difficult for me to just surrender and let go to that feeling of being a coward. But at the same time, it scares me to think that you could punch someone and potentially kill them and go down for manslaughter. And then your whole freedom is taken away from you. The advice I was always given as a kid from my parents and from other people in the area was to hit them back. Now, is there a generational change in parents and there's this feeling that you can defend yourself but also to de escalate situations as much as possible? This almost feels like it's becoming the norm. Now. How do you do both at the same time, think back to my granddad Tom, who was from the next town to me and tilsley. And if I went to him in the past and said, Granddad a boys hit me or a boys don't need to hit me. He'd say hit them back, hit them as hard as you can. So there was this expectation to prove yourself as a man or as a strong boy, by being the first to defend yourself, if you felt like you were threatened in some way to punch them before they punched you. Makes me think what I would do if I had sons and they were involved in some altercation? If I'm honest with myself, my immediate emotional response would be to say hit them back, or defend yourself. But actually, could we resolve these things in a different way? Could we put both boys in a boxing ring together? Or could we? Or can I go over to the Father, the other child and say, can we resolve this dispute in a verbal way instead of a physical way and get the boys to apologize to each other? If Chris had asked for help with this situation with this boy in his youth, would it have been easier for him to seek out help for his mental health issues when he was an adult? And how do we encourage boys and men to ask for help to get support and not feel like they have to shoulder this burden of responsibility?