Today in the podcast, we're going to talk about divine healing.

We're going to talk about stories throughout history of people being healed by the Holy Spirit.

And we're also going to talk about what the Bible says about the power, the healing power of Christ.

We are not just promised everlasting life.

We're not just promised that when we surrender that that's what we'll get.

We are also promised that he wants us whole and healed, mind, body and spirit.

And we're going to talk about what that looks like when people encounter this part of the Holy Spirit.

Welcome to Faith Fueled Living, the podcast that equips you to live well spiritually, emotionally, physically and purposefully.

Each week we'll dive into conversations and biblical truths to help you strengthen your faith, pursue meaningful work, hear for your whole self, and live in line with what matters most.

Hi.

Today on the podcast, I want to welcome our guest.

Her name is Kathleen Johnson and she's known as Scripture Girl, a Christian speaker, author and teacher with a mission to help others experience the transformative power of God's Word.

After experiencing her own divine healing, freedom from strongholds and a renewed mind through spiritual disciplines like scripture, memory, meditation and fasting, she now inspires others to step into God's given, God given authority and live fulfilled with the fullness of God.

And I'm so excited for this conversation today because so many of us know, of course we find salvation in Christ, that, you know, we get the fruit of the Spirit.

But we are going to talk about that, but so much more.

We're going to talk about actually that we're, we're promised through that relationship, through the belief that God can actually heal us to mind, body and spirit.

And so this is going to be a powerful conversation.

I think it's going to have all of us reflecting on just, you know, how big do we think our God is?

Do we see him as all powerful, all knowing and that he can do all things, or are we putting a limit on him?

And so I'm so excited to share this conversation with you and I just want to welcome Kathleen to the show.

So, Kathleen, thank you so much for coming, sharing your story, sharing about the book that you've put together for all of us to really blow our belief, you know, how out the doors.

And so thank you, thank you, thank you for joining us.

I couldn't be more thrilled.

This is a huge opportunity and I'm very passionate about this subject and of course we'll talk about that and there's a reason why, but it is a wonderful opportunity and so glad to be here.

Thank you.

So why don't you just tell us.

A little bit more about, you know, yourself, your story and just kind of what are you.

What are you working on now?

Right.

Including your book, Heal to Heal.

Sure, Absolutely.

So I'm a fairly new author.

I started writing just a couple of years ago.

I finally gave myself permission to do that.

It was something that I'd been prompted to do for many years and many of you can probably relate to that.

But once that happened, the floodgates sort of opened up and I've just been writing ever since.

But this newest project is so, so important to me.

And yes, I've been in Christian ministry and women's leadership and those kind of things, but have had a calling to write and speak.

But this Heal to Heal book came out of my own suffering, my own walk with chronic pain and just being told by multiple doctors that there was no permanent solution and being sort of stuck in that apparent contradiction.

Because I believe God's word, I love God's word.

I really have a passion for memorizing it.

And what happened through that journey of me reaching out to touch Jesus for healing is that I dug in deep about some of these things, about what the Bible teaches us.

And I just discovered this vast archive of people, past and present, that understand that God wants us well and that we should maybe go back and look again and realize these things through the lens of this.

All things are possible for one who believes.

So that gives you just a general idea.

Yeah, yeah.

So I have gotten to go through Kathleen's newest book, like I said, Healed to Heal.

And it's powerful.

And if you're somebody that one is walking through your own health struggles, battle long term diagnosis, or if you're just somebody that's looking for a book that will encourage you in your faith and just kind of growing your belief, then I definitely encourage you to pick this book up.

And I will just tell you that I'm.

I was excited, actually read it.

And I can't wait to go back later when I have more time to go through it, because I have read about Jesus the healer before, but I feel like unless we get these kind of stories front and center and we're regularly reminded of what Jesus did in his life, you know, in the Bible, but also what he's still doing today, then I think we do keep our.

We keep our perspective of what God can do in a human level.

Right.

Like I said before.

So first of all, I would love Kathleen for You just to share with us what was it like for what you walked through, you shared just, you know, a tiny bit about that that got you to this place of realizing that that while you believed he could heal, maybe you needed to still have a shift with that, I'm guessing, with your own healing journey.

Absolutely.

Well, I can tell you that I was passionate about the Word.

And I knew many of the verses, like in the prayer of faith will raise a sick person up.

And whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you've received it and it will be yours.

And I started to study some of these things.

But when I was crying out to God because I wasn't seeing it, I was like, lord, there's got to be a way.

There's gotta be a way.

And that's what I got.

I got those verses.

It's like he was saying them right back to me.

And so what he was able to show me in that season, Kristin, is that it is not the perfect of hope that raises the sick person up.

It is the prayer of faith.

The problem, I think, in our modern church, and for me, for much of my life, is that we don't take faith all that seriously.

We have sort of watered it down a little bit, and we don't realize that, you know, without faith, it is impossible to please God.

And through this process, again, I did receive my healing.

But as I started to study some of these lives of these healing generals, their lives proved the things that they discovered about the healing sacrifice of Jesus Christ and what it meant, not only that he was the revealed will of the Father.

You know, whoever looks at me as seeing the One who sent me, and that by his wounds we are healed, but so much more.

And we would have to have a couple of hours to go through all these things one by one.

And what I started to see when I was studying these things is that we have been very tempted to have an experience like my own father died from pancreatic cancer.

You know, I fasted, I prayed.

I look at that, I see that.

And there's a part of us that's dying for an answer.

I want an answer.

I want to know why.

And we tend to bring God's word down to our experience.

It must be this, it must be that.

And what we do in that, to your point, we do limit the Holy One of Israel because His Word does not change based on our experience.

And when we look again at these people that taught this, if you look at somebody like FF Bosworth, his ministry, 250,000 healings, and upwards of that out of his ministry.

And he said, you know, over and over again, faith begins where the will of God is known.

And one of our big questions is we don't really believe.

You know, do we believe that God heals?

And if we get stuck on that, we're stuck.

Stuck.

Yeah, absolutely.

And that's just one of the things.

I could keep going through some of these things one by one, but for me, when I looked at it from a new perspective.

Perspective.

I realized that it was time for me to build my belief because I believed in my conscious mind.

But underneath, see, underneath.

Right, Those things underneath that are kicking back and a lot of those are hidden and they have to be presented to the Lord.

And there's a process that we can do that we can talk about some of those things that we can do.

Yeah, I mean, one of the things that you, you shared in the book is just that.

Let me see.

I don't know if it was Ethan Otis Allen that said it or you, because it was in that section, but it I wrote down, Jesus waits for us to believe and act on his word.

Right into your point.

A lot of us think we believe, but we still have some level of unbelief below that.

Like, well, maybe he'll do that or.

Or he.

He does it sometimes.

But that's a limited faith still, right?

Or belief, I guess.

And so, you know, I think that that's so important is that he wants us all in.

Right?

He wants us all in.

And I think that's where to your point is building up our belief in our.

That he can heal, that he can do the miraculous is where a lot of us need to do the work.

Right.

And one thing I would add to that is something that FS Bosworth helped people understand and remember and get this, because when they understood it, their healing came.

So make sure you hear that.

He would say appropriating faith is not believing that God can, but that he will.

It's going that extra way.

And see, we have a fear.

You know, we want to serve God.

We don't want to overstep God.

We don't want to do anything that's not his will.

And so we come to Him.

But we don't realize there's different types of prayers.

There's a prayer of guidance where we're asking God, which way do I go?

Do I go here or here?

But you know, FF Bosworth was one of these guys that understood that the revealed will of God, God expects us to come into alignment with that.

And Confess it and not, you know, not do it in this sort of wishy washy sort of way, you know.

He also said, after being sufficiently enlightened, our attitude towards sin should be the same as our attitude towards sickness should be the same as sin.

You know, sin and sickness being part of the curse, and we're redeemed from the curse.

So it's just getting our head straight and realizing this has got to be a conviction.

It's got to be a blazing conviction, and it should never be without the word of God.

But maybe we go and look at things that we might have interpreted from a perspective that was handed to us, maybe from a certain church group or a leader that maybe had a certain belief about this look again kind of thing.

Does that make sense?

Absolutely.

Makes so much sense.

And I mean, I think when you were saying that, something I was thinking about was, what about.

What would you just share with us about this idea?

Some people say, like you said, well, I pray whatever should happen to this person.

Like you said, we're not praying for actual straight healing.

And we believe that it can happen sometimes.

We're praying for, like, oh, well, heal them if it's your will.

And I'm not.

So what would you just say to that?

Because that's kind of a similar point in that it's, yes, it has to be aligned with God's will, but if we're praying for healing, that's different.

I would say if there is a prayer of faith at all and just stop and think about this for a little bit.

Yeah, if there's such a thing as a prayer of faith, you can.

We can't put these other things in.

Right.

Our perspective is, you know, God will heal, you know, Billy, but not Susan, Frank, but not, you know, Bill or what.

We've got to stop that because he has no respecter of persons.

You know, Oral Roberts said, if God will heal one, he'll heal two, two, then four, then eight.

He'll heal anybody who believes.

And Andrew Murray is one of my favorites.

I studied him in my churches growing up.

And it was always, you know, absolute surrender and humility.

But he wrote a book called Divine Healing.

And he was trying to get people to see God meets us where we are.

And so health as well as salvation, this is what he says are to be obtained by faith.

And what they're saying is based on what the word says.

So when you get back to your question about if it's your will, there's only one time in the whole Bible where that question was Ever asked.

And the leper came to him and says, if it's your will, you can make me whole.

And Jesus reached out and touched him.

I am willing be healed instantly.

The man will see him.

That settles it, right?

That has to settle it.

We have to realize that the things of God are good.

He does not want us sick.

We are a temple of the living God.

Why would he want his temple to be sick?

These things have crept in over time and they've become an accepted theology that is causing many of us not even to take this stuff seriously anymore.

Right, Yeah, I absolutely agree with you.

To be honest, it wasn't until probably only in the last five or ten years that I had was reading more and understanding more about the power and the promise of healing that comes along with this.

And so I think my point being is that means for decades I was never really hearing this talked about in a big way.

Right.

In my faith circles.

I mean, obviously I knew what was said in the Bible, but for the rest of the time.

Right.

In other words, not like this.

So I agree with you.

It's so important.

So one thing I wanted to mention is that you say in the book that when God heals you, it's never just for you.

And I think obviously every example in the book that you share of these people that went out and became healed, you know, having healing ministries, they all exemplify that.

And so what would you just share with us?

Because it's so important?

Because the whole point is, is it also brings back glory to God.

Right.

For this.

Absolutely.

I think, you know, all of our testimony is aligning with the scriptures that say, you know, let the redeemed of the Lord tell their story.

Or, you know, they overcame him by the word of their testimony and by the blood of the Lamb.

And, you know, when the apostles had an experience of God, you know, we can't help but speak about what we've seen and heard.

We are not meant to be stagnant.

And I've read a lot of stories in studying this Christian where somebody lost their healing and.

And you know, some of the healing ministers have helped some of those people maybe, maybe get it again and realized and told them, listen, you can't keep this to yourself.

It's not that God is like exacting punishment upon you, but we are not meant to be stagnant.

We're meant to be, you know, the living water is meant to flow through us.

And what we experience, we are to administer to others.

You know, Jesus himself said, you are the light of the world.

He's expecting us to go and heal the sick and place our hands on sick people, and we just have lost this piece of it.

And to your point before, you know, I'm learning so much.

You know, I'm not a neuroscientist by any wild stretch of the imagination, but I've been studying these things and, you know, what we expose ourselves to, it changes us.

And things that some of these healing ministers discovered, they're like, listen, you haven't been taught this other thing.

You just have heard the thing about salvation.

Imagine if from the pulpits you heard people saying, God wants to heal some people.

Sometimes.

Sometimes he wants to.

And it might be you, if you heard that all the time, how many people would receive.

We receive salvation because we hear it and we believe and we've heard it and heard it and yes.

And you know, Greg Moore is a modern.

He teaches divine healing at Charis Bible College.

And he's got a quote that's basically, once somebody is brought to the awareness that these things are purchased by the blood of Jesus, healing is right behind it.

That's what he's seen in his ministry.

So it's that important.

Absolutely.

So I thought.

Sorry, I'm trying to figure.

Oh, it's over here.

So tell us a little bit.

So I was really, I guess, enamored by.

And I know there's an example in the Bible, but.

Right.

So the woman that touches Jesus's clothes or cloth, you know, whatever, she has healing, right.

From having.

What was it?

I forget how many years bleeding.

12 years.

12 years.

There we go.

But one of the people in your book that you share about is Maria.

I think it's Woodworth Etter.

Yes.

Tell us about.

And I'm not saying she's the only one.

I'm just saying you give this example, but not only did she go around healing people.

Right.

All, I think all over the country, but she also started sending people, prayed over pieces of clothing, items that couldn't travel, that couldn't be wherever a healer was.

Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Because to me, I'm like, whoa.

I mean, not that we don't see an example in the Bible, but I haven't experienced or heard of that as much.

And so just.

Could you share us a little bit about that with us?

Yes, she.

She discovered that when they would pray over these cloths and then send them out to healing to.

To people, as soon as they.

The healing touch, the cloths, touched their skin, they were healed.

You had an experience where you think about the power of the living God.

You know, in, in the, in the Bible, we had this example.

You know, the handkerchiefs and aprons that were touched were brought to the sick people and they were healed in Acts 19.

And why not?

Right.

Like, you know, even in the secular world, they understand that somebody can hold something like a test tube and a depressed person can hold that and it will change if they have human DNA.

There's an interaction that's happening all the time when we are touching somebody, when we place our hands on them, we have the spirit of the living God.

And to the extent that I'm surrendered and that my spirit is built up, there is a.

There's an expression of God in and through us that goes to that person.

And so why wouldn't it happen that something that I touched had.

Had a piece of that?

Of course, I don't think there's anything about that that's not still applicable today.

We just don't think it.

We don't think it's true.

And when we don't believe it, we don't see it.

That's exactly.

Well, that's what I'm saying is I think we have, like you said, either not been told or not been told enough.

Yeah, we haven't been even asking God for this because a lot of us haven't seen these examples.

We haven't been told these examples.

We're not sharing these examples enough.

I mean, obviously that's one of the things you're trying to do.

So, you know, it's amazing.

And like I said, I know there's healing ministries.

Right.

Because I have some of the books that some of those ministries have written, and they're very powerful.

But once again, I'm probably the exception.

Right?

Like, other than maybe pastors or people administer, like straight in the church ministry, my friends aren't reading these books typically.

Right.

Like, so that's what I'm saying is, like, it's our job then to go out and share, you know, more about this.

Because to your point, it's all about believing.

But I do want to also bring up something that you just said which is powerful.

Same as you.

Obviously, I'm not a neuroscientist or anything like that, but, you know, of course now we know more about epigenetics, but it's the whole idea that what we think, what we're feeling impacts our cells, it impacts the expression of our genes.

And to your point, I just saw something yesterday that even said if we're happy, we look at something funny.

Of course, Scripture.

Even our cells that are supposed to go eat up the bacteria can get.

Can actually turn on and start doing their job.

But if we're kind of sad or we're depressed, like these other things, they're kind of sluggish and not doing as good of a job and the bacteria wakes up like, so, in other words, all these things are happening.

And then to your point, look at the pray people that pray for someone that's not even there, right?

Like groups of people, especially people that are very.

They've been praying deeply for years.

They've shown even scientifically that these people have healing or they have some improvement when this group of people pray for them.

And so I think we do forget these examples if we're not hearing them more.

Yeah, well, it's just an.

It's a kind of thing that you can.

You can reinforce that you can kind of look and realize again that God has set these things up and we've got.

It's there, you know, like set your mind on the above.

Think about these things.

You know, rejoice, always pray without ceasing, give thanks when we're doing that.

There's a biochemical significance to that.

And even, you know, one of the last guy in my book, Norman Cousins, is somebody who wrote about these things, and he wasn't a Christian, but he learned that his thoughts mattered and that there is a biology to belief that panic is poison, that these are things that are true for every human being.

You know, we all need Jesus, but if we don't understand that our focus and our freedom are connected, we will absolutely be walking into disease before you know it.

Because when we allow those kind of thoughts to dwell, they multiply.

And like you said with epigenetics, I mean, I've read a lot about how we're either, you know, we're in rest and digest or fight or flight, and even a low level of stress and worry is taking us down.

And, you know, it's like when the.

When the word says, you know, to set the mind on the flesh is death.

Hey, that's literal.

You set them on your worries and your fears and all this kind of stuff.

Your body is going to be destroyed by that.

That's a real thing.

Well, I think that's.

That is it.

Right.

This is a.

This isn't just about knowing and understanding and then fully believing that we can be healed right through Christ.

That's so important.

And that's definitely like the big thing here.

But it is also what you just Said, which is every day like you said, what are we focusing on?

What are we allowing in?

What are we allowing here?

There's a really good book.

It's not a, it's not a faith based book, but it's.

I just happen to sell my desk called when the Body says no by Gabor Nate.

But he's basically an md and he explains that he's worked with at least hundreds of patients, right, that either have cancer, chronic illnesses, people that have passed, and he's worked with people that are, in some cases, they're kind of at the end for whatever they're going through.

But he said we have different categories for people where their personality traits and how they handle things often is another factor in.

Like these people tend to get cancer.

And I'm not saying if you're this way, you're getting cancer, you have a chronic illness, right?

But what I am saying is he's basically saying the people that suppress and repress their emotions and feelings, they don't actually speak what they need to.

They, they say, oh yeah, yeah, everything's fine, everything's fine.

Like those people, they hold it all in, they don't release it, right?

They, they're, they have the thoughts here, but they're not actually then sharing them.

They tend to be the people that tend to have certain conditions more.

And then there's the people that have unchecked anger and unforgiveness and they tend to have different conditions.

So the point is, is if we're not aware that actually how we deal with things, if we're suppressing things, like all of this matters and all of it impacts what's happening inside of our body, you know, so it's both a daily thing, right, of the renewing of the mind and really understanding the power that that has inside of us, right, Spiritually, mentally, and.

And then also for the big healing.

I mean, healing can be small, can be big.

It's all of it.

But you know what I'm saying, like a lot of people might believe God for like, oh, renew my mind.

But then they might not be asking for something big, right?

For him to, to heal them completely of something, you know.

So, yeah, you touched on so many powerful things, you know, that there's another book to your point with this guy, there's another one that your body believes every word you say, you know, she recounts all the things that she remembered saying that were affecting her body.

You know, that's why, you know, look at the word it has, like, let the weak say, I am Strong or you know, back to your moods and your, and your emotions.

I mean like this Norman Cousins guy, he was having such extraordinary pain.

And then he writes that he had this wonderful discovery that just two hours of belly laughter he got into watching all these comedy things that he was able to have at least two hours of pain free sleep when before that he was miserable all through the night.

So this one thing.

But then you have right there in the word God told us first, a cheerful heart is good medicine.

You know, a joyful heart is good medicine.

We have got to look at this thing again and realize everything we think all the time, it's always affecting us.

Like you said, we're always giving messages to ourselves.

And so how are we going to be the light of the world if we are not able to allow the spirit of Christ to flow through us at the right level?

I mean there's another guy, George Jeffries, that wrote the light of Christ not only illuminates and beautifies the soul, but gives health and vigor to the physical body.

And you have like in Romans 8:11 where he who raised Christ from the dead is going to give life to your mortal body.

So I think we block that.

Right.

So with the point, your point about the emotions, they get all tangled up and we have these mental poisons because of unforgiveness.

We have got the living water that's ready to flow.

The spirit of God is ready to flow, but we got to get out of the way and quit blocking.

Yeah, yeah, well, and also acknowledge like what do we actually.

What are we thinking?

What are we feeling?

What are we holding on to.

Right.

That we're not releasing, I think, you know, so.

And that's it, that's an ongoing thing.

It's not like we do it one time.

It's a, that's why every day we need to check in what, what's, what's going on.

Right.

What's going on here physically, what's going on here?

What's going in our, on in our hearts.

You know, so absolutely powerful, very important.

Yeah.

One interesting thing, not interesting, but thing that you.

That was said in the book, I think it was the same woman, Maria Woodworth Etter or is in that section that you say or it said the gospel isn't complete until it's demonstrated.

Right.

She was big on signs and wonders and I thought that was really powerful because once again I, A lot of Christians, at least living in our country and some other Western countries, we actually aren't expecting signs and wonders from God.

All the time.

Yeah.

Like, was there anything else you just share with us about that?

Like, her faith was so strong, and she had such belief in that.

And yet.

And then she saw them, right?

They continued to come.

Yeah.

And by the way, it didn't happen immediately.

I mean, she stepped.

It took her a while to even step out in obedience to this call, because that's a whole story.

She didn't feel like she saw other people doing it, and she finally did.

But as she walked in obedience, these things started to open up.

And, you know, one of my, probably, perhaps my favorite story in the book is T.L.

osborne.

And because we can learn so much from him, because he did not just start in victory, he started in defeat.

He went over to India.

He wanted to preach the Gospel.

The people over there are like, what does your God do that artist doesn't do?

They wanted to see the signs and wonders, and it was not happening.

So he came back.

There was.

There were all these things that happened.

He had a vision of the.

Of the Lord Jesus.

He went to some healing services where he witnessed these things.

But when they went back, Kristin, they were expecting it.

They were expecting those signs and wonders, and they showed up.

And there's a place in the Bible or in the book where he, God, just dropped this thought bomb on him because he and his wife were placing their hands on all these sick people, or they're seeing just thousands of people healed, but they were exhausted.

There was just not enough hours in the day to minister to these people.

God put this thought in his mind, how big is possible if all things are possible for those who believe, how big is possible?

And God was like, hey, if I could heal, if I could save all the people that are here, and there's thousands of people here, why can't I heal them all at once?

So the next thing that happens is mass healings.

He brought 53 people up that were death deaf, and they were, you know, 50.

One of them were immediately able to hear in a week later, the other two, what I mean, we don't think of this stuff, but if we look at it again and realize it in one of the things that he said, a quote that I love, the power of God is always available to those who are willing to believe it, speak it, and act on it.

He says that's when miracles happen.

That's TL Osborne that said that.

Well, you know, I think I sort of referenced this earlier, but do you think sometimes so many of us don't see that because we haven't gotten to the end of ourselves in a lot of ways.

Right?

Like, like that whole comfort or like, oh well, I'm kind of provided for.

And while we might think, oh you know, God helped provides, we.

We really aren't going to him.

Like, all I have left is full belief in you because I got nothing right.

But I feel like people that get to that point sooner or ever, they're the ones that are like, I have nothing left to lose but to give a hundred percent belief in this.

You just gave me so many chills because that's it, right?

These people.

Like the one with the issue of blood.

She was desperate, she spent all her money.

She, she got worse.

But instead of her desperation turning to despair, which, which is right there waiting, it's calling to you, hey, spare.

She decided this is determination.

And so I say too, and this is part of my touching Jesus book is healing is a decision first I decide.

It's just like that guy that said, you know, I believe help thou mind belief.

You might not really believe it yet, but if you decide, I'm going to Jesus, I am touching his garment, it's on.

And then I'm gonna go, you know the mechanics of faith.

I'm gonna confess it, I'm gonna meditate on it, I'm gonna visualize it.

I'm gonna keep on keeping on keeping on keeping on building.

Friend, you're going to touch Jesus for faith with, with your faith and be healed because that's the word of God.

That's right.

You know, and I don't remember now, unfortunately, I don't know that this was.

If this was in your book or if I happened to see it yesterday, which is kind of odd timing if it wasn't in your book.

Was there a woman in your book who.

A woman had a, like a large goiter on her neck.

That wasn't in your book.

Yeah, that was in the book.

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

Well it must have been one of the.

I was like, I thought I read town, but.

Right.

So wasn't.

I guess my point was going to be is sometimes there is instantaneous, like you said, like healing.

And other times it is a process.

But we still, we were told to keep our belief even if we can't see it yet.

So what would you just share?

Because.

Right.

So the, the story about that woman, I don't remember her name, is a good example of the other type of healing that can still happen, that it's not always instantaneous so we shouldn't lose hope is what I'm saying.

Absolutely.

And Again, you know, my faith has been stretched and just expanded beyond belief because of this, because of this focus.

Because what you do end up seeing is that there were people all through this whole study that maybe they went to a healing service.

There's one woman I'm thinking of and then when she got home, she was having trouble with her eyesight.

It was all better.

She was no longer cross eyed, but when she got home it was worse.

And her friends were like, you see, put your glasses back on.

But she didn't because she believed.

She was like, no.

He said, and she's like, I'm hanging onto this.

The next day, this time it stayed away.

It was gone.

And the goiter woman, she decided, I'm healed.

Nobody else could see it.

They're all like, you're delusional.

But because she didn't come off of that, the healing manifested.

And see, that's it.

We're too quick to agree with what's happening in the scene.

And we need to go back to the unseen and see that healing as being a finished work and hang on to that.

Just stand on it.

Yeah.

I love what George Williams is, a man in my book who had written a book about this.

He overcame cancer, but he said in the spiritual world, God's truth will overcome any fact.

You know, he said, stand on God's word and let truth prevail because the truth will come down and shatter the quote unquote temporary thing.

Oh, so good.

Yeah, I mean, so two, two thoughts that I wanted to bring up.

One is a lot of us, it seems either need to hear that this is really what we been promised and that this is possible for us, but we also have to unlearn what limits us.

Right.

I know you talk about that in the book and I absolutely agree with that.

The other thing too that I had written down was I think a lot of us struggle, you know, even as believers that we think, you know, if God can and will.

Like we ask if God can and will heal us.

Like we question it, like, will he?

And if, if, even if we believe he can, we wonder, will he?

But the other, I think, challenges is that too many of us believe we may not be deserving or worthy of it.

And that will also hold us back.

From what I understand, it's the people that have studied this again, not me.

The people that have studied this and have lived their lives.

They say that unworthiness is right up there with unbelief.

Right up there with unbelief.

We have to realize that we're made worthy by the blood of the Lamb of God.

He himself is our peace.

He himself is our righteousness.

We're taking his righteousness.

We're no longer the old self.

We have to put that up.

We got to quit thinking of ourselves that way.

It's not a prideful thing to assume.

We're supposed to clothe ourselves with Christ.

If you're clothed with Christ, you're not unworthy.

Right.

And you, it is.

You are a new creation, a new.

So there's that realization.

Right.

And especially if you've grown up and you've had people saying negative things to you and you've internalized those things.

You know, that's one of the things about being transformed by the renewal of the mind.

Depending how.

How rough of your situation, that might be, that might take a while.

But you should be encouraged to know that God has given us this way to do it.

And if you stick with it, you know, being transformed is not.

That's a consistent, persistent thing.

That's not a quick thing.

But if you stick with it, it will happen.

It starts to unfold.

And your belief can and will change.

Yeah, absolutely.

You know, but I just think you just sort of explain that more.

But that's my point, I guess, is like people have to start looking at.

Like we talked about at the beginning.

You might believe it that he can, but are you believing that he can for you?

Yeah, completely.

Right.

You know, it's.

It's being.

It's deciding that.

And I'll give you one more thing that F.F.

bosworth did.

And again, the reason I use him is because he helps so many people go from that to that.

He helps so many people go from maybe it's not.

And then their healing came.

So he's a perfect example because he.

That one lie when it was.

When it was overcome, then they experienced healing.

And so when people would.

Would be stuck there, I don't know if it's God's will to heal me.

He would.

He would then ask them, do you think it's God's will to keep his promise?

And for some people, that was enough.

They were able to go back and see the scriptures in the light of that.

No, he wants me to believe his promise.

And now it's different.

Now it was on.

Yeah.

And I think it also is why sharing testimonies, right.

Whether it's of salvation or healing.

Both of them.

All of it.

It's so important.

Just like the one woman in your book said, right?

About.

Like it isn't complete till it's demonstrated the reason for that is because we take people wherever they're at in their belief.

And when I say we, I'm sorry, I mean the examples, right, of Christ healing or salvation, and we bring them potentially to a place where then they do have complete belief or they.

They start believing for these, these, the healing, the miracles, miraculous things.

And so I think that's also partly.

If you're at an event and you saw people healed, you now might go from like, maybe to.

It's possible for me too.

Right.

Like, I think that's kind of some of the.

I mean, that's part of this as well, is when we see it.

Not that God's saying we, we have to see it, but the point is it does give us even a deeper belief in this being possible.

And.

And Jesus realized that that was an aspect of it for us.

And he said, you know, you know, at least believe based on the works that there was a part of us that when we see that, that is going to affect us.

But, you know, it's just that our problem is we try to put our theology on that when we can't always see what's happening in the unseen.

And there's plenty of times when the healing's not coming for a reason.

We just don't know.

But I mean, for us to see the miracles.

I mean, she was right.

I really think that Maria Woodworth Atter was right about that.

She said, preach Jesus and hold on until the signs follow.

She said, there's something wrong if they don't follow.

Why wouldn't they?

Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So is there another just person or example or something from the book that you want to share that we haven't already covered that you think is just so powerful that you want to share?

Well, I love.

Well, there's a couple of them, of course.

There's so many.

I love the Kenneth Hagin story because if somebody is really close to the end or maybe, you know, has been handed over to hospice or whatever, you need to go read this guy's story, okay?

Because everybody in his family was planning his funeral and he could hear it.

They were planning his funeral like they were planning a graduation party or whatever, like who's going to sing?

Who's going to, you know, who are the powers?

I mean, he could.

And he couldn't speak very well because of the thing, but he.

In his heart, he was saying, I'm not dead yet.

You know.

But what's so crazy about his story is he got his he got stuck on this 1 verse, Mark 11, 23, 24.

Whatever you ask in prayer, believe your seated and it will be yours.

And he meditated on it.

And he says, those words were branded on my spirit like a branding iron brands cattle.

Okay, so he was thinking about it.

And so for a while he was doing the thing we all do.

He's like, I prayed.

Okay, I'm looking for it.

I prayed, I'm looking for it.

He had to stop all that.

He had to flip it.

He had to realize, I have to believe this first.

And so he built the thing up until he finally just has a day where he swings his legs over the bed and just stands up.

And it's not instant, but he started moving toward that.

So that ties into another story, Carrie Judd Montgomery, where she got this letter from a lady that had received healing.

And that letter told her, it makes no difference how you feel.

Pray, believing and act faith.

So it wasn't just like, you're not just doing something haphazardly.

Like if you're saying you're believing for your eyesight, you don't just get up and start walking into a wall.

You spend some time building up your belief, but then you have to act.

Then you have to act.

So if somebody's planning your funeral and you can have a complete healing, that should wake us up.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

So agree.

Okay, so let me.

As we start wrapping up, what would just be just some.

Maybe a word of encouragement besides everything we've already shared, which I hope has really, you know, spoken to somebody and sort of given them, you know, something even more to believe.

You know, I mean, you know, I mean, the stories, the testimony to even believe at this much bigger level.

But anything else, just to encourage people, if they're on their own health journey, if maybe they're.

They've had maybe some healing from.

From Christ, but.

But aren't out sharing it.

Like, would you.

What would you just.

How would you encourage people?

Well, one of the other things that I talk about a lot is that the living water is real, but we have just got to learn how to align with that.

And so one of the biggest things you can ever do is remember that, you know, I'm a branch on the vine.

Like God is not separate, you know, from me, like God the Father, but God the Holy Spirit in me, Christ in me, the hope of glory, like the healing power of Christ is in me.

And I have to learn how to turn and look to him.

So he's with you.

He has hope for you.

He has wonderful life for you, and he wants to flow through you with living water.

And so, but we have to have a realization of that.

It's just stopping and saying, wait, he's with me.

Wait, I'm branched on the vine.

When you start doing that, you have more of an awareness.

You know, it's practicing the presence of God.

And then you'll start to experience it.

Because as you think about it that way, as I stop thinking of it as being like, I'm just on my own, because that was the problem from the beginning.

We, you know, sin separated us from God.

As soon as I'm off the vine, that's when I'm worn out, burned out, fried.

That's when it's like everything's going off the deep end.

But not if I'm, you know, apart from him.

I could do nothing but with him, oh, boy, now we're.

Now we can go out and change the world.

So God is with you.

He loves you.

He's with you right now and wants good things for your life and has a wonderful plan for you.

So good.

Love it.

So, you know, one thing, though, I did just want to mention.

So I remember in this, one of the other books that I read on healing as, like I said, I think it's called Jesus the Healer, Christ the Healer.

Maybe that could be it.

No, it's something like.

Yeah, there's another one that could be.

I'm sure there's so many.

It's a. I mean, it's a more current one.

Although I love that you've dug into so many older books, which I don't have those at this point.

But one of the things that they talk about, though, is because, like, they've had healing, their own miraculous healing.

And then of course, they're in healing ministry.

But when someone wasn't healed, for instance, and they dig into it further, it's that if you're a believer praying for healing of them but they don't believe.

Doesn't always.

Right.

Like, the person usually has to have the belief that they can be healed.

Would you say that aligns with what you've read?

I mean, I'm just saying, in other words, like, if you're praying for somebody but they're not there.

Right.

They don't have the faith and they're not acting.

It doesn't always.

It's not always going to come through.

Well, it's interesting because they've got people like at Kathryn Coleman services and other services, even for some of the modern healings, where somebody went to the service, and they weren't even thinking about it, but they got healed.

So you're like, well, how did that work?

Here's what I believe.

I believe that if there's any way for them to get it, they're going to get it.

So if there's any way.

But if there.

It could be a block, it could be the unworthiness, it could be.

But, you know, even skeptics have found healing.

There was something in them that was open enough.

It's like the power of God is there, and it's.

I'm either going to connect with it or I'm not.

And that's just a different way to look at it, but I think it is actually the true one.

Yeah.

Okay, great.

Okay, so last question, and then you can share about, you know, how people can find out more about your books and your.

The podcast coming up and stuff is what is just fueling you these days?

Like, we're in fall, you know, is there anything that's just keeping you, you know, excited?

You're just loving in your life right now?

Well, this is it.

This is it.

I. I'm seeing people respond to this.

You know, there have been people, people that have received healing.

It has just put me on holy fire.

It's just.

It is something I wake up in the morning thinking about and go to bed thinking about.

And I do believe that there is a divine healing revival coming into this country.

And, you know, along with the other kind of revival that we're seeing, I believe that God wants us to realize what's possible in him and to just embrace our full inheritance in Christ.

And like, when you really get that, like, Kristen, if all of us are walking around knowing who we are in Christ, what are we depressed about?

What are we upset?

No, it's different.

It is.

It's just like the path of the righteous is like the bright morning sun shining ever brighter until the full light of day.

That's real.

And so it is waking up to a day of God's glory and beauty and goodness in and through us.

It's wonderful.

It's wonderful.

I love it.

So, so beautiful.

Well, thank you for the work you're doing.

Before we end, can you tell people how's the best way to connect with you and, you know, learn about all the things you have going on?

Sure.

Thank you so much.

It's been a wonderful experience being here and just you have so many great insights, but just.

KathleenJohnsonMinistries.com it's kind of a HubSpot, so that I'll send you to all the other stuff.

Wonderful.

Well, thank you so much.

So, yes, thanks again for sharing, for writing this book.

And I know you're going to be coming out with the next book that's going to be a little bit more about your own healing journey.

But yeah, just thank you for sharing this and that you're going out in the world and doing this because I think to your point, it's so needed and it's going to bring hope and healing to so many people.

Well, God bless you and just thank you so much.

And as I wrap up today's episode, I just wanted to share with you that this episode gave me so much hope.

It gave me so much hope that we just have to believe what God promises, what he tells us that he can do when we believe.

And I just want to reiterate the quote that Kathleen shared today by T.L.

osborne, because it was so powerful.

He said the power of God is always available to those who are willing to believe it, speak it, and act on it.

That's when miracles happen.

And then she also shared what George Williams said.

In the spiritual world, God's truth will overcome any fact.

And I think too many of us have been living in the natural or the seen world that we see as humans and we forget there is a spiritual realm going on at all times.

Our spiritual warfare there is what is seen or what is happening in the unseen.

And I think we have to start believing that God is all powerful, all knowing, and he can move mountains.

He can heal us.

He can give us full wholeness, mind, body and spirit if we just believe and act out of that belief.

So I'd love to hear if this episode has just deepened your belief in your faith and what God is capable of and that many of us just need to build up our belief and we need to remember that we need to believe God, that He can heal us and will heal us, not just that he can.

And then I also thought it was really important what Kathleen said, which is if it's a prayer of faith, we can't put other things in that prayer.

So I just, I hope you have a great day.

I hope that you will dig deeper into what God promises along with the healing that he's offering us in his word.

If you enjoyed today's episode, if you could leave a rating review on Apple Podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts, it helps the show get discovered by more people so that we can continue to uplift and encourage people in their faith journey as well as all of the other parts of their lives.