Olesija

Mark: [00:00:00] Welcome back friends to our podcast, unlocking Your World of Creativity. And I really put the emphasis on World in this episode. This podcast, we've traveled all over the world from Asia in Cambodia to Africa, South Africa, Dubai Latin America, and Argentina and Mexico, and of course all over Europe; Amsterdam, Finland. But this is our first time to stamp our creative passports in Estonia. My guest is Olesija Saue. Welcome to the show.

Olesija: And welcome to Estonia.,

Mark: it's great to be here.

I got out the map, I had to do a geography lesson to see how it's located in the Baltics, right across, from Finland and adjacent to Russia now.

And it's just a very interesting location. And then I couldn't help but start reading about the rich history of Estonia. I want to get to all that. But I want to start with your focus and your creative work, and that is [00:01:00] creating. Personal branding well couldn't be a closer topic to my heart, so I'm so glad to have you on the show to talk about.

Olesija: Yes, my pleasure. And yes, I'm focusing on personal branding, but I'm also an executive coach. In a nutshell what I'm doing is looking inside of people helping them understand who they are and then maximizing their potential being authentic and using their own creativity and their potential.

Mark: And it's so interesting that, we focus on management skills sometimes and we take, MBA classes or we take executive development classes, but then when it comes to building that personal brand, boy it, it's sometimes hard for people to bridge that gap, isn't it?

Olesija: Yes, absolutely true. And I think one of the main reasons for that are quite significant stereotypes around this topic because people consider this as a bragging or [00:02:00] some sort of involvement in a vanity fair.

And I would say that for pretty many we could do pretty well without doing personal branding because essentially we all have a personal brand. Jeff B e zos said in 2012, that personal brand is something that people say about you once you have left the room. But within last couple of years, I would say already decades with the rise of social media, we don't have just this physical, personal brand. We also have our digital twin. And this digital twin can either work for us or it can work against us. And because of this complexity of our personal brand we need to start working on that because we want people to know certain things about us before we can actually enter the room.

So our digital twin would be creating new opportunities for [00:03:00] us would be new, opening new doors. And today in this connected world we can't really do without digital, personal brand.

Mark: For sure. And it's so interesting, your perspective too, of the inside and outside view of us, as a brand I too often thought of this self-promotion or as you say, bragging rights, but you've described it as what other people say, not just what you are putting out, whether it's your work or your social media, but it's what other people might say about your brand.

Tell us more about,

Olesija: It's actually a combination. Because like we're talking about personal brand, it's a perception that other people have of you, of your personal brand. And we can't obviously force other people to think about us in certain ways. But we can strategically look at our personal brand, our identity, and [00:04:00] put To the world the things that are most important for us.

So concentrating on our strengths, on our values, on our story, and telling it in a way that it would appeal to our ideal target audience. And that in case of personal branding what really makes a. And that really makes brands memorable, is authenticity and also passion. And authenticity can't be faked.

But in order for you to be authentic both offline and online, you have to understand yourself. Understand and accept yourself. So not trying to present yourself, in a perfect way that nobody would relate to, but playing out for to your strengths and also admitting some of your weaknesses.

I think that Johnny Depp said that your popularities is what really makes you interesting. [00:05:00] And and yes, when people. Thinking about personal branding quite often focuses on the outside. What social media channels should I be using? What digital strategy should I choose and cetera.

But this is. This, everything is important, but it comes as a second step because if you have this inner understanding of yourself it's very easy to put it into your presentable format. But you have to understand your substance and you have to build your story around your substance because if you don't do that, You, this is just, a shallow package without a substance.

And people quite soon would understand that. And I also see that because social media made this branding so easy. And so you just decide that you are an expert on one topic. You'll go online. You put your thoughts out there, you do it consistently. Three [00:06:00] six months. And you are an expert.

And there are a lot of people, younger people who are digitally savvy, who are ready to be visible. They just use this opportunity and perhaps. They don't have years of experience much of the knowledge but they're present and they create their presence for certain audiences.

And at the same time, we have a lot of people who have tens of years of experience knowledge. But they're not present. They're not visible on in the digital world. And it creates a paradox that you have a lot of people with actual real world experience. Been present on, on social media and on another side you have brands which are created in digital space.

And because they are so visible and so credible on those platforms, they go into the real world and they start to really compete [00:07:00] with So called real experts.

Mark: Yes. Such a good observation. Olesija, I think about the first time I maybe heard this term personal branding was many years ago with Tom Peters, and, you're talking about the skills and the proof of your personal brand and of your stature there. But he also mentioned, it's your work, it's your portfolio of successes. You can't just say you're good at something and like you said, present yourself as an expert. If you haven't done the work and you don't have the case studies I think you know, but he called them your portfolio.

I wondered if you had some experience with that direction.

Olesija: Yes, absolutely. That's important because one thing is what you are saying about yourself what your personal brand is and the way that you position yourself and that the keywords that you are using for people to remember about you, but then comes the credibility.

[00:08:00] But, and that to certain extent you would build your credibility if you talk about a certain subject and assuming that you are doing a good job. So we are not really just saying irrelevant stuff, but at the same time you need to present third parties confirmation of your expertise, all of different test.

Studies where the customers also traditional media exposure all of the things that traditional PR is doing. But nowadays social media just makes it so much easier and this process so much faster because before social media, it would take you 20 years to gain the experience and then.

Be considered as a recognized expert on the subject. Nowadays, it's a bit twice worse. You build your platform, your own platform you get the the following you get the customers, and then the confirmation now comes afterwards. So [00:09:00] what if, especially if we're talking about.

Birds and real professionals, they have to understand the rules of the game. It's not enough that you are the best in the world. If nobody knows about you, you have to both work on your. I call it substance. So who you are, and then what is the work that only you can do for your customers, but also being visible to your audience.

And it's also important to understand that if we're talking about strong personal brand, that it. Doesn't necessarily mean that you have to have a household brand name like Oprah or Richard Branson or Elon Musk in a professional environment, quite often we just need a very focused targets.

To know about us and it would become top of mind for this audience. We would create awesome relationships and we have a key of customers. Household brand name, it's [00:10:00] good, but it's really not for everyone and not all of people, majority of people actually don't need that to have a strong personal brand to be successful in, in, in their.

Very good. And thinking about your own portfolio and your own successes, I look back and see that you were part of the executive and leadership team that bought the brand of business publication, Forbes to Estonia. And I was thinking about that as a brand platform, and I was wondering if you could share with us your experience in really creating and bringing that brand to your.

It

was very interesting experience and from that experience it was actually not only in Estonia, but also in Latvia and later in Finland you could see how different markets perceive brands. Because we're talking about fors and now on a global scale and business environment fors is a very strong, very credible brand [00:11:00] for local markets in Estonia.

The brands, even strong brands that are coming outside of PO are not of that big significance. So we saw that, for example, for Lavia was already very good credibility. This is fors, whatever you do, and guys on the local markets, you are supposedly doing a good job. It was pretty same thing in Penland, but in Estonia nobody really cared about the big brand.

We had to really put in a lot of. Work to present the brand that in a way that it would also serve the local markets. Yes, obviously the market knew what this brand that is but more important that was to really see local people a, leading the brand in a way that the local.

With be three are as a proper business practic and also bringing in success stories from the local [00:12:00] market. Which which once again is is very interesting also from a personal branding perspective because quite often before sharing our stories we try to, go.

Get to the end of our hero journey. Once I'm at the top, I will be entitled to share my story and then quite many people really putting aside their stories till till, once I'm, I retire. But I see that people can't relate to success Tourists. Way ahead of them. In case of personal brands really big big names globally recognized, but what really appeals to people are brands and success stories, which are local.

Which are relatable and which are perhaps just couple of steps ahead. You can get more value outta this story and also get some practical steps that you can apply in your life. .

Mark: And [00:13:00] it maybe that leads us to a discussion about Estonia as a business market. Very technology driven very growth in industry and a real leader in.

Yes, I

Olesija: will say that the, so even

Mark: despite its size, I mean relatively,

Olesija: I think that it's because of Estonia's site size and also because of our neighbor, because I think that pretty many innovations actually come from from n for security. Yes. So it is the same with the. And by looking at the development after becoming independent in 1991 we had nothing.

So in this respect we straight away went to the technology that existed that, that. Point and started to build from there. But at the same time other comp countries in Europe and then also globally, they already had some level of [00:14:00] technology and they were. Because of that really lacking new ways to do business.

And in this respect Estonia being a small country, had to be ambitious, had to be proactive. And and Estonia are very hard working people. And I consider this Part of my job, but also to teach them to share their successes with the world, because also very modest

Mark: Yes. As you might know from my background, even my virtual background that we're talking on video here I love to have just simple sort of one on. Small group coffee conversations. I, if I came to Estonia and we had some coffee conversations about what's going on in life and the creative environment around us, what sort of things would we talk about and who might be with us at that coffee?

Olesija: Oh, you would absolutely love. There are very [00:15:00] many different lovely coffee places in Italian and capital of Estonia and also in smaller towns. The countryside people are very welcoming. And when it comes to creativity, then estonia's nature is one of true sources of inspiration.

Estonia is is very, Beautiful forestry country. It's actually the size of Belgium, but in Belgium they have 50 million people living on the same territory. And we have just 1.3 million. So we have a lot of free space. And yeah. Connection to nature, I would say is a way that Syrians.

Inspiration get we charge it and otherwise we're connected to the rest of the world. .

Mark: Very nice. It reminds me of my own home state here in the US Idaho, we, I think we only have 1.5 or 6 million people we have lots of [00:16:00] room to enjoy nature as you. And how does that combination of, nature but also technology and business, but has such a storied history of usonia as well.

And I'm sure that the architecture, the museums and the history that surround you as well. How does all that influence your own personal creativity? How does that inspire?

Olesija: Yes. I think that the has so many multiple levels. If we take capital talent, for example then it's a real mixture of media town is under UNESCO protection.

It is really a gorgeous small town with a lot of history. Every building is telling a story and then from the old town, now you have new offices and of different startup companies. I think in essence, if I'm thinking what creativity is, it really helps to be in such [00:17:00] environment where you can Take the things that been there put them into a new perspective and then come up with with something something new.

And and I think also that yeah curiosity is is what's What could be a common key word to describe people here in Estonia? All of the innovations innovations in it, the really all sparked by curiosity and and desire to do something. D. If I'm looking at the way that they're teaching at schools, my son is seven years old, so he just started in school already in the first grade.

They put a lot of focus on children and. Maintaining this curiosity and coming up with the new ideas and and creative projects. And it's actually unbelievable how how small children are doing that. And I think that it is very important that [00:18:00] we help children to, to keep this childish curiosity which will eventually lead to creativity in an adult life.

Mark: I hope so. It's very encouraging to, to know that they're doing that in your school, your son's school. I think that might turn the page then to look ahead to the future. It is very exciting. I don't know. When your son graduates from high school, but it's gonna be a while. So I look into the future and look into that crystal ball.

Many people say that the jobs of the future aren't even created yet, that we don't even know what the future might hold. But as you look over the rise from a personal development and building our own brands, what do you see for the.

Olesija: Yeah I fully agree with you. Un this is one of the ways that I've chosen the school for my child, so that I don't know what the knowledge would he need in, in, in 10 years when he finishes school.

But I'm quite certain now that our creativity. And [00:19:00] topic of your podcast would be one of very important skills. And and from the personal branding perspective, I think that we would see a obviously we would see merger, even a bigger merge of digital and physical spaces.

And I think that. We would then need more and more of those authentic relationships, which are only possible, but through personal branding. So we've seen this over loss 10, 20 years that Personal brands are more trustworthy than corporate brands. Forbes research actually shows that within last 20 years the credibility of corporate brands has decreased by by almost 50%.

We, I believe that it would still. Still the same trend because in the digital world we are all connected. And then we wanted to keep and perhaps [00:20:00] enhance those relationships that we have with people of. Line. And I think that it would be some kind of a hybrid where we would perhaps initiate yeah, discussions conversations and relationships online.

Then we'll take them offline and then bring them back to our, to the digital world. Yeah, that's that's the way that they I see the future and Perhaps we would have some kind of personal brands or ,

Mark: you never know. Yeah. I like that. Thanks for painting that picture of the future.

And Alyssa, I want to make sure I have a question about the future as well, but I want to make sure that we pause here and let people know how to connect with you and learn more about your work and your book, A brand named you.

Olesija: Yes. The book the brand named You is a very practical guide consisting of hundred steps to take from understanding your personal brand to actually building your strategy and executing [00:21:00] it, and you can find it on Amazon.

And the best way to connect with me. On LinkedIn where I talk about personal branding about executive branding brand ambassadors and employee advocacy and things all things related to all potential as humans and individuals and how we can Truly be ourselves, but at the same time impact the world in the best possible way.

Mark: Yes. Listeners, I encourage you to connect with Olesija on LinkedIn and I'll put the link in the show notes so you'll be able to find her LinkedIn profile. Olesija, one of the themes across this podcast with all sorts of creators from musicians and authors and painters and artists of all kinds, has been collaboration.

And sometimes I think when we might think of personal brand, we only think of ourselves. And you've talked about internal qualities or inner qualities and certainly our work, but no, no creative project gets off the [00:22:00] ground without collaborators or a team or, some sort of team around you.

, tell us how we reconcile that or how that fits into our personal brand strategy.

Olesija: Yeah there are lots of different parts to to personal branding. Pretty much the same way that we would be building a corporate brand. So we always have to start with the strategy so that we know what our goal is and then where we're heading.

And and there is a lot of, so I, I. I see personal branding nowadays as a combination of self development and coaching on one side and then marketing and sales on another side. When I'm working with my clients I'm doing lots of digging on the. Site and better.

This job is done easy. It is on, on, on the marketing side because, with personal branding, we are quite open running into different fears blocks imposter syndrome [00:23:00] and publicity, fear and everything that that comes along. And We sort all of those things out, then we really can can go out there and can own our own story and really put ourselves out there because and yes for that you can quite often need to have a.

For people who would be assisting your in it video production copywriting design and things like that. But yeah, I think that once again, that it all starts from within because otherwise there are very many things that can be done. Which fall into the category of personal branding.

But there are very certain building blocks, so to say that, that play the foundation for long term success. And also, if we're talking about corporation helps us attract the ideal customers, ideal partners ideal employees [00:24:00] without waiting, wasting our time, and then their.

Mark: Very good. Listeners, my guest has been Olesija Soue from Estonia.

She is an expert in personal branding and executive development. She's the author of a great book called A Brand named You, Olesija, thanks for being with us. We really appreciate it.

Olesija: My pleasure, unless there's comeback again.

Mark: Next time we'll continue our around the world travels. We'll be stamping our creative passports in places like Chicago and Mexico and the Netherlands, and all points in between in coming episodes, and we'll continue to talk to experts about how they get inspired and how they organize those ideas, and most of all, how they gain the confidence and the connections to launch their work out into theworld.

So until next time, I'm Mark Stinson and we'll be unlocking your world of creativity