MASTER SAM HART pt 1

[00:00:00] Ross: Hi there, and a very warm welcome to season 6, episode 14 of People Soup. It's Ross Macintosh here.

[00:00:06] Sam: when just so many teachers, teaching assistants, other people working in education are just feeling like they're just doing things for the sake of it.

[00:00:14] And feeling like 50 percent or more of their time is spent doing things that don't directly impact children. But it's to help them pass a test. It's to help look good. It's to help, I don't know, You know satisfy the Ofsted inspectors that are just about to knock on the door and give you an inspection It's all that stuff and then it's parents as well.

[00:00:36] Ross: pea soupers. It's great to be back with a continuation of season six after what turned into an extended festive break Me and I'm raring to go. In this episode, I welcome Sam Hart to the podcast. Sam is many things. He's a podcast host, primary school teacher, serious sport enthusiast, entrepreneur, and proud Brummie.

[00:00:59] that is someone from the city of Birmingham. In the uk. Sam's people soup. Ingredients are flexibility, openness, courage, and learning.

[00:01:08] With a large pinch of humility, you'll hear Sam talk about his love of teaching and his disengagement with the profession. His sporting achievements, the times in his life when he's been dragged by his own mind, and his commitment to making a difference.

[00:01:34] For those of you who are new to PeopleSoup, welcome. It's great to have you here. We aim to provide you with the ingredients for a better work life, from behavioral science and beyond. For those of you who are regular PeeSoopers, Thanks for tuning in again.

[00:01:48] We love it that you're part of our community. A quick scoot over to the news desk. I have some new offerings in 2025. my small group supervision program, for those of you using ACT in the [00:02:00] workplace, has launched, and Cohort 1 starts in March. There's still time to find out more and sign up, and you'll find a link to all the details in the show notes.

[00:02:09] And I have more plans in development. Subscribe to my newsletter at rossmcintosh. co. uk to be the first to hear about them. So let's crack on. For now, get a brew on and have a listen to the first part of my chat with Sam Hart.

[00:02:29] Sam Hart, welcome to PeopleSoup.

[00:02:32] Sam: Thanks so much, Ross. I'm really, uh, yeah, I'm quite honored to be here. I know the quality of the, the work and, and everything that you put out into the world. So I'm really pleased to be invited. Thank you.

[00:02:43] Ross: Oh, bless you. Well, thank you. And we're delighted to have you here. Now, now, as you know, I've got a bit of a research department, Sam. So I'm going to share with you what they found out about you, just to get the ball rolling, just to help us find out a bit more about you. And then we'll go into our conversation.

[00:03:00] So it says here, Sam is a sporty kind of guy. he competed at the national level in decathlon and has always loved getting involved in other sports, fitness activities, and personal development. He completed a sports therapy degree at University College Birmingham and then went on to complete a postgraduate certificate in education at Birmingham City University.

[00:03:22] He's always been interested in topics like nutrition, fitness, strength and conditioning, and anatomy. How are we doing so far, Sam? Excellent.

[00:03:30] Sam: Spot on.

[00:03:31] Ross: Excellent. In his early twenties, through his personal experience, he became more curious about the workings of his mind and began to explore meditation, mindfulness, self development and psychology.

[00:03:46] He began to feel calmer, more present, happier, and through his podcast wants to help others feel the same. And folks, if you haven't come across the insight podcast, it is a great beautifully [00:04:00] hosted, great lesson. So I'd recommend you put it in your library or your collection. It's basically where Sam hosts incredible people whose mission is to educate and inspire individuals from all walks of life.

[00:04:13] So he's quite a busy chap, you'll be getting the the feel of this folks. And in his career so far, He's also been a primary school teacher in Birmingham schools and also international schools in Spain. His interest in self development and fitness remains. He competes in HIROCS events around Europe, runs cold water immersion workshops, And applies his learning from the guests on his podcast to his own life.

[00:04:39] Now, Sam, there's a bit more slightly sketchy research, but I'm going to share with you anyway. My research department believe you are also a member of a band or bands in the Birmingham or West Midlands area. They think a guitar was involved, but couldn't find much more information. And then they went down this rabbit hole of speculating.

[00:05:03] The timing isn't right here, but they were thinking about, was it anything to do with Black Sabbath? Was it anything to do with Jeff Lynne and ELO? Mike Skinner? Or Duran Duran? Now I don't know if you can comment on any of that band related, um, finding.

[00:05:19] Sam: I was in a band and we did originate from Birmingham, but I wouldn't say I could put myself or the band that I was in in quite the same category as The Streets or Black Sabbath or Duran Duran, unfortunately, but I am very proud of the musical background of this city and, and all the other amazing people that have come out of this city as well.

[00:05:44] Ross: Yeah, and do you still play?

[00:05:47] Sam: Yeah, but less, you know, not, not with other people. I more now, I mean, I've got my electric guitars hanging up behind me, but I don't really plug them in anymore, but I do pick up my acoustic [00:06:00] guitar and I'll just, you know, every so often set myself up with, you know, some of my Guitar tab books or listen to a song and then look on the internet to find out how to play along with that nothing very, uh Too technical or difficult just right within the yes, I can pick up the guitar play this straight away and just have a little sing along

[00:06:20] Ross: Lovely. Well, I'm not going to ask you to play today, but maybe I can see a sort of spinoff where, where Sam and Ross form a band.

[00:06:30] Sam: Oh, I mean, do you play something Ross? Is that a no

[00:06:37] Ross: well, it's a kind of, yes, but, um, I haven't played for a long, long, long time and I'm talking decades, but, but the instruments, I'm not sure they'd be compatible because I used to play the oboe. And before that there was a virtuoso recorder player.

[00:06:53] Sam: All right, well, that's an impressive

[00:06:56] Ross: well Sam, come on, be honest, being a primary school teacher, you're probably sick to death of the recorder.

[00:07:02] Ha ha ha ha.

[00:07:04] Sam: That was one of the more challenging topics I had to take up when I was in Spain actually teaching over there because you know in one school it was just Yeah, Sam, you can just teach everything in the primary curriculum, can't you? One thing I had to teach was the recorder. But, you know, I think because of that slightly musical background and, and knowing the guitar, um, I, you know, got them to play a couple of little, a little simple tunes.

[00:07:25] But, hey, yeah, maybe I, you know, guitar robo combo, we could put it together. I'm imagining like that scene from Peep Show. I don't know if you ever watched Peep Show, where they do the advert music with the dread. We could

[00:07:37] Ross: Yes. Yeah. So, so, PSupers, watch this space, um, it might be something that takes off one day. Or maybe it could be a, I don't know where this is coming from, Sam, maybe it could be a vocal harmony group.

[00:07:51] Sam: Maybe i'd have to work on my singing a bit more but yeah

[00:07:56] Ross: Enough frippery, Sam. Let me, let me [00:08:00] take us back to you and your, your career. So I'm really interested in finding out a bit more about what's led you to the point you're at now, and look back on your career so far and maybe give us two or three pivotal moments.

[00:08:15] Sam: Yeah, well Looking over the some of the questions that I could have was the new you would ask me and then that Oh three pivotal moments stood out because it definitely makes you pause and think Reflect and go back and just maybe think how often do we do that? How often do we think about the pivotal moments in our lives and just how much they are still influencing?

[00:08:35] You know, what's the um, what would it call like the you know, the the tail of them that you're still feeling the effects of? but Yeah to go back. What would I say? At college and university as you mentioned I was I was always always interested in sport. I studied sports therapy for my degree my dad was a head teacher, and I think I didn't really think I'd fall into teaching despite my dad being in that career, not out of any rebellious, um, inclination or anything like that.

[00:09:04] I just, you know, when you think, Oh, that's one career path I could take because my dad's in it, but actually, no, I think I'm more interested in the sport side of things. physiotherapy or a strength and conditioning coach, something like that. At the same time, I've always grown up with kids. I became an uncle when I was 11 years old.

[00:09:21] So talking of pivotal moments, I think that was one, you know, 10 years old, actually. Sorry. It was kind of my first niece. Jessica was born when I was 10. And then I quickly turned 11. And so it was always around young Children and being involved in, you know, bringing them up. And So that I guess comes to the head when I finished my university degree, but I ruptured my Achilles right at the end of finishing my degree.

[00:09:46] Yeah, it's kind of I, you know, finish the course. And then that period between actual the graduation, which was in August or September, something like that. Um, I was doing a, a athletics competition. I was doing 110 m hurdles and [00:10:00] I tore my Achilles. And then, um, I had a long recovery after that, and then decided after months being sat on the sofa, not doing much with myself.

[00:10:10] I need to get out there and I need to go and do something. So I signed up to Camp America, went over to Camp America, started with the older children actually just happened to be put with the inner in a camp with the teenage children. But then they moved me over to the younger Children, like the younger Children at the camp, and I just loved it.

[00:10:27] I love being around the kids again, and I loved, you know, teaching them sports and get involved with activities and all that kind of stuff. And so when I came back, I thought, Okay, actually, I don't really know what I'm doing. I haven't got a career set path. Why don't I try a bit of teaching? So I started as a supply teacher, did some teaching assistant work.

[00:10:48] And then a couple of years down the line after building up all that experience, then thankfully the school that I happen to be working at said that they'll, you know, train me on the job. It was a school's direct course. So I trained on the job, became a primary school teacher. So that's up to teaching.

[00:11:04] Should I go on or should I pause there? Yeah,

[00:11:09] Ross: how you became an uncle at such a young age and how through circumstances in Camp America, you, you were involved in educating, nurturing, supporting the learning of young, people. And you really lit up when you were talking about it.

[00:11:25] Sam: because it can be so fun and it can be so rewarding. Obviously, the when it's your family and nieces and nephews, it's just some of the most precious moments I've had. We know when a niece or nephew falls asleep on your chest or whether

[00:11:38] when you, you know, you're teaching them in their times tables or something or playing a game with them or whatever.

[00:11:43] And just it's fun. And then with the teaching of Children as well, you can just have the most rewarding experiences when you're there for the first time that they've learned something and something's clicked. Amazing. When you Take them out on trips experiences that they maybe wouldn't be having, in their home life, but they [00:12:00] get to do this.

[00:12:00] They get to go away on a residential and camp and, you know, have marshmallows by the fire, whatever it is, that's all very fun. But straight away, it's funny because I want to, like, say, but actually, it's really tough, and that's why I'm kind of getting out of teaching at the moment because it's so tough, and I found it really difficult.

[00:12:18] And any teachers listening will know just how tough it's become, especially in the last few years. So, yes, there's there's highlights, and I can light up thinking about working with Children, but also there's some real hard aspects as well.

[00:12:32] Ross: cause you know I've done quite a bit of work with teachers bringing, bringing the skills from ACT and ACT training to teachers and I noticed that sense of low morale, should we say. I think that's an understatement to be absolutely honest. And the burden of targets and curriculums and parents has, I hesitate to say cause I'm no, by no means a deep expert in any of this.

[00:12:57] I've only scratched the surface. But one thing, working with them and in act, sometimes there were great conversations about why the hell they got into teaching in the first place. And it's kind of what you're describing to me. But then it feels like it's outweighed with other, pressures.

[00:13:12] Would you mind saying a bit more about the other side of that balance?

[00:13:15] Sam: Yeah, I mean, for one thing, like you said, the pressures, the pressure of what you've got to fit into a day, the curriculum, the, the paperwork, the kind of the box exercises, the jumping through hoops, all of that stuff that just takes away from, um, the actual impact that you want to have on children when just so many teachers, teaching assistants, other people working in education are just feeling like they're just doing things for the sake of it.

[00:13:41] And feeling like 50 percent or more of their time is spent doing things that don't directly impact children. But it's to help them pass a test. It's to help look good. It's to help, I don't know, You know satisfy the Ofsted inspectors that are just about to knock on the door and give you an [00:14:00] inspection It's all that stuff and then it's parents as well.

[00:14:02] And that can be two sides of the Coin, you know, I had dr. Alex blower on my podcast and he's um He's done lots of research into boys and attainment and low socioeconomic backgrounds and things like that. And he's saying there's kind of there's two sides. You can have parents that are just not trusting of the school system and they're always trying to kind of catch teachers out and they're kind of blaming teachers for any misbehavior or not believing the teachers and believing children over over the Staff.

[00:14:31] but then you might have the other experience where Parents are putting a lot of pressure on teachers. Why isn't my child doing better? You know, you need to give them extra homework. You need to do this. You need to do that, whatever. So it's kind of both both sides of the of parents the way that they can come at you.

[00:14:47] Ross: dad about this, we were talking about teachers and because a dear friend of mine who I grew up with is a teacher and, and it's just feeling, don't want to, don't want to say too much, but at the end of the tether.

[00:15:00] And. It just feels that teaching used to be such a, a noble and respected profession, where the experts were in control. Those people who were doing the teaching could it seems, could have the freedom and the, opportunities to deploy their skills as to what was most appropriate in those circumstances.

[00:15:21] And now it just seems to be A profession where expectation upon expectation are loaded upon the teachers and they're leaving in droves. I think that's, that's the sort of headline of, of, the, the state of the, the teaching population.

[00:15:38] Sam: That's it. Yeah, it's talked about as a retention crisis. I can't remember the exact stats, but the amount of teachers that leave the profession within the first five years or something, you know, it's supposed used to be something like my dad, something that you got into when he was young and stayed. All the way up until he was a head teacher until he retired.

[00:15:54] That's what it used to be like. And with other careers as well, you know, we could be talking about doctors, nurses, we could be [00:16:00] talking about so many different professions. Couldn't we? When, when you get into it for a real love or passion, but it's, it loses that because of All the other things that are being told to you from above and you know, I forget the, um, and I'm sure you'll know the, what is it?

[00:16:14] Is it a three or five something kind of things that you need in a workplace for your well being and I'm not, I'm not forgetting the phrase, but you know, what is it? The kind of like autonomy and, you know, Creativity and, community and, uh, like continued learning as well. You know, a lot of teachers, well, they don't feel autonomous.

[00:16:34] They don't feel like they can teach the way they think they should teach. They're, they're told what they should be teaching when they should be teaching. They don't feel like they're learning. Like so often CPD sessions are just cobbled together. They're put together and they so often just feel like a waste of time.

[00:16:50] So teachers don't feel like they're getting better and learning and, you know, Most of us, that's what we want, isn't it? We're not lazy. We don't want to sit back and relax and you know, the an accusation that may be thrown at teachers. Are you just in it because it for the great holidays and things and maybe that's the case for some but lots of us just want to grow and get better and know how to and just learn.

[00:17:13] We just all love learning. Don't we were all curious but like that that is not being nurtured in teachers.

[00:17:21] Ross: I hear you and I, unfortunately, I don't think we're going to solve it today in our chat, but I would like to see the, that respect and that regarding teaching as a noble profession, start to move towards in that direction because I was looking at the reason I was talking about it with my dad is we're looking at some of his school photographs which he kept and the teachers are there and this is in. 1940s but the teachers are there in full suits and a hat and you can see all the kids are kind of like, oh, oh teacher in this blurry old photograph and [00:18:00] it just feels like that is gone.

[00:18:02] Sam: Yeah. Well, I think that not maybe gone from the children, because the children still love to see you. And they still, if they see you outside of school, it's like the highlight of their day. It's so

[00:18:12] funny. But in terms of wider society, yes. Do we have the respect, the admiration for teachers? Do we value them as much as we should?

[00:18:21] No. Are they paid like they should be? No. So no, we're not going to solve it in this conversation. But Those are some things that would help. Pay teachers more, give them more autonomy, show them more respect. would help.

[00:18:34] Ross: give them time to feel like they belong as a community together.

[00:18:37] Sam: Yeah.

[00:18:39] Ross: And that they can develop their competence. They can grow, like you're saying that. Learning. Absolutely right. now let's talk about other bits of your, your career if we may, Sam. Tell us a bit more about those. Um,

[00:18:52] Sam: I suppose.

[00:18:54] Ross: um, um,

[00:18:58] Sam: my PGC and then you do your NQT it was called back then. So your year I passed that and then I went to teach in Spain for a couple of years. So that was a good experience I'm talking about pivotal moments. That was another experience.

[00:19:11] I Loved living in Barcelona and Mallorca. It was amazing A lot of fun. I love the lifestyle. I'd love to go back to Spain and spend more extended time there. I mean, you know, it's just a different way of life. And I love that way of life. Just a bit more relaxed. I love the, yeah, the focus around food and coffee and nature and beaches, all that good stuff.

[00:19:36] But when I came back after, I guess, kind of experiencing that experiencing that more relaxed lifestyle. But at the same time, I should add that what I didn't get was a very good school experience. I didn't get a very good rewarding teaching experience there. I didn't like it. You know, I'd, I'd, I'd spent a long time working in schools in, um, Handsworth is one place.

[00:19:59] So, you know, [00:20:00] quite a deprived area of Birmingham where you feel like you're needed and that there's a purpose. Whereas in these private schools didn't feel as needed and it was much of a purpose and also just some dodgy. Things going on that shouldn't be happening in schools, but because, you know, there's not as much, um, well, like scrutiny that people are allowed to get away with things.

[00:20:18] But anyway, we won't go down that road. So I wanted to come back and find a bit of a balance. So I wanted to come back and not work full time. So I found a job part time three days a week. Great could still be teaching in the classroom, but I could also scratch some of the itches that I had around, you know, entrepreneurship and creativity.

[00:20:38] So I set up a company with my partner at the time around well being and health for teachers, T. A. S. And tried to do our bit to kind of help with all this stuff that we've been talking about, teachers that aren't feeling great, feeling stressed, not sleeping well, et cetera. So we kind of said, you know, we can't fix that side of the things, but what we can do is maybe give you some tools that we've learned or we've researched and find out about, talk to experts about, you know, how can you sleep better?

[00:21:08] What kind of practices can you put into reduce stress? How can you connect with your community better? Things like that. That was great. Tried that project got up to around 2020, you know, COVID lockdown. and that's when the podcast kind of came up because that was time to, like lots of people had some time on our hands.

[00:21:28] So we did some Instagram lives, interviewed people, enjoyed it, and then just thought, well, we can take the audio recordings from that and start a podcast. And then. That's kind of I feel like I'm doing this all over the place, but hopefully there is some kind of chronological order to this. yeah, kind of gave that a go for a couple of years.

[00:21:48] but then for different reasons, you know, I mean, my partner broke up. So that company was, was finished. But then I wanted to carry on the podcast and I also wanted to open it up to [00:22:00] everyone as well. Not just teaching staff. Um, so I, yeah, rebranded, renamed it, opened it up to everyone. Started getting guests on all kinds of topics.

[00:22:10] so that's kind of like a really, really fast,

[00:22:15] Ross: um.

[00:22:15] Sam: fast little bite sized story of where we're up to now. And I've missed lots out, but yeah. Yeah.

[00:22:22] Ross: and one of them is when the research department were looking at your background and you said, now I can't, I can't remember the exact phraseology, but in your early twenties you were getting curious about your own mind and you, you talked about realizing you were being pushed around by your own mind and your thoughts and that's when you discovered, I think, things like mindfulness.

[00:22:45] Could you tell us a bit more about that time? Um,

[00:22:48] Gettinh dragged by my mind

[00:22:48] Sam: Yeah, I mean, that wasn't the first instance of feeling like I'm getting dragged by my mind. I couldn't, I think if we go back perhaps mid, mid teens, 15, 16, I can remember having periods of really low mood, really not knowing what to do with myself, going to some quite kind of dark places. I think that evolved into more of kind of underlying anxiety, constantly worrying about what could go wrong here. what's the worst case scenario? Feeling maybe a bit of kind of social anxiety every time I'm going out. People are looking at me, people are judging me. Am I wearing the right thing? Did I say the right thing?

[00:23:24] Then, Going on a night out or something and leaving it and going, did I say the right thing there? Oh, I didn't make them laugh enough. Oh, was I fun enough? Just all this kind of pressure. And so like that phrase I use, I guess, just kind of getting dragged around by your thoughts. And I think what also played a role was experiences in relationships as well.

[00:23:46] You know, Really struggling with my own mental health and then that, being deflected onto my partners. So maybe not being trusting. Maybe, yeah, being suspicious, [00:24:00] worrying, um, Yeah, all that kind of things. I'm looking back. What I know now is just because I didn't have a very high self esteem. I just didn't think much of myself and I just, you know, Constant kind of irrational thoughts going on.

[00:24:14] Over and over again. And so because I hadn't learned to manage my mind, I would just blurt out every little thing that I said, a thought and would need reassurance, et cetera. So I just say that to put it into a bit of context. And maybe some people, I don't know, can relate to that, you know, the way they've treated people in the past because of how they felt.

[00:24:34] But yeah, kind of early twenties, mid twenties, it kind of turned from low mood into more of this, you know, Anxiety this worry and I think there are lots of things that happen to make me Pause and think this isn't okay. One of them was my mum who you know, I just I Always been there for me and it's been great to talk to and I've talked to her about this kind of thing.

[00:25:00] And so one thing is she suggested to go and see a hypnotherapist. Um, so that's one thing that I point to that maybe set me on the path of meditation, mindfulness, understanding my mind a bit better. Cause it's like, you just need that little taste, don't you? You just have that one guided meditation with someone in the room and you go, Oh wow.

[00:25:20] That's what it's like to just quiet in your mind for five, 10 minutes. Um, That felt amazing. I want more of that. Um, and then that creating a bit of distance between your thoughts and yourself like, Oh, wow. Like, I don't have to believe everything single thought that comes into my head. So this hit the therapist kind of opened my eyes to that.

[00:25:39] But also, you know, partners that I had at the time friends. I don't know. Documentaries I might have watched or books I might have been given it all kind of just added into the okay, actually, this is a common experience. Lots of people feel like this. Lots of people feel dragged around by their thoughts.

[00:25:58] Lots of people get [00:26:00] anxious. Lots of people get wound up. Lots of people take out their insecurities on other people. You're not alone, Sam. You're not a weirdo. You're not horrible person. This happens to everyone and if you want to do something about it, though, it's going to take some work. So, from that point on, I, yeah, I wanted to, I wanted to read all the books.

[00:26:19] I wanted to watch the documentaries. I wanted to listen to the podcast. Um, you know, download the, the meditation apps and just kind of experiment. And, yeah. See what can happen and I just started to feel the benefits. It's definitely not been a linear journey You know lots of people talk about that don't they it's not like oh you discover these things and everything's plain sailing No, it's been very up and down in the you know, the 10 15 years since then But it's like the baseline has just improved.

[00:26:50] I just feel a little bit better Karma a little less hectic. Um, you know, more recent relationships have been a lot more healthy because of this. I feel more connected to friends and family. I feel more present every day. And so, yeah, just those little taste that kind of set me on the path and it's by no means, you know, cured me of all my, I don't know, issues, but it's certainly helping.

[00:27:17] Yes.

[00:27:17] Ross: Yeah. Gosh, thank you. Thank you, Sam. Because, peace seepers, what, what you just heard from Sam there part of the magic of Sam is he will share his experience as a, as a man, as a human being, and some of the challenges and struggles he's faced. And I think we don't have enough men in our population doing that.

[00:27:39] Because, as you say, Sam, You're not alone. Everything you said there absolutely resonates with me. And we're actually going to build that a bit into part two of our conversation. This, this thing about worrying about what other people think, because we've discovered in our various conversations, me and Sam, that, um, [00:28:00] we both have this and we've both been working on it for 10, more years, 10, 15 years, and It's still a journey.

[00:28:07] We still have those things. So we're going to spend a bit more time exploring that. But as I was listening to you, I really hear some of your values. I think I'm going to share with you what I think the values I'm hearing and experiencing are. And one of them is learning, curiosity, courage. I feel to, to share this with, with the population, to press publish on a podcast episode.

[00:28:33] Um, flexibility is another one I see, Sam. You talked about having itches to scratch and you've done things like set up a company, move to Spain, return from Spain, find a part time job. And I just find that very sort of entrepreneurial and resourceful to follow your path. even if you can't see the end point of that path.

[00:28:58] any of those values, do they sound familiar to you? Would you identify with them?

[00:29:03] Sam: yeah, certainly. And actually the flexibility is something that I am quite proud of, you know, and it, and it did make me light up when you said that you noticed that value value in me because Yes, and I, and you know, it's come up before and, and I've thought about it before, like what does that stem from?

[00:29:19] Jack of all trades

[00:29:19] Sam: And that's one thing that I'm not actually quite sure, I dunno why that is. I dunno why. I've always liked the idea of being a jack of all trades, master of none. Maybe it's just that I was just never never really excelled in anything because you know as a child growing up So I thought well, I just need to be good at a bit of everything because I'm never gonna be the world's best at one Thing but it's funny because it kept coming out, you know, I never liked to be put in just the sporty box So I went and learned the guitar.

[00:29:47] It's like people know no way Sam could write his own music write his own songs well Forget that I'm gonna I'm gonna do it and set up a band with my friend and we did and we wrote our own songs and performed our own songs and went around the UK and played them and it's [00:30:00] like I'm immensely proud that I Wasn't just put in a box, you know I did decathlon 10 different events over two days because I didn't want to just focus on one thing.

[00:30:10] It's like I don't know. Maybe it's a bit of my mind that just gets bored easily So I need constant simulation of new things and then that just results in You Oh, well, 20 years down the line, I have done this and I've done that. And I've run a marathon with no shoes on and I've cycled from London to Paris and I've set up a podcast and I've kind of, I've got all these really cool stories because of my flexibility.

[00:30:32] So it is something I'm proud of. Yeah.

[00:30:35] Ross: Yeah, and you should be. And I think I see that combined with courage. You're, not just thinking about, Oh, I'm going to try moving to, to Spain. But actually doing it, or not just thinking, I'm going to, um, compete in a Hi Rox event. Now you need to explain more about that to me, Sam, because Hi Rox is related to what you go to the gym to do.

[00:30:58] Is that right?

[00:30:59] Sam: Yeah, that's it. So Hyrox is an indoor competition where you run eight kilometres, but you do eight laps of one kilometre, one kilometre, kilometre. And in between every lap, there's an exercise. So you do eight exercises. So run a kilometre, do an exercise, run a kilometre, do an exercise. And the exercises are things like pushing a heavy sled, pulling one, burpees, lunges, rowing, Farmers carry.

[00:31:26] So, you know, carrying two weights 100 m or so. Yeah. So again, that appeals to me because it's kind of a bit of everything. It's got a balance between endurance and

[00:31:34] strength. And yeah.

[00:31:36] yeah.

[00:31:37] Ross: Isn't it interesting that, uh, this, this. Thirst for new experience and flexibility. This feels really fundamental to you.

[00:31:47] Sam: It is. And like I said, I'm not sure where it comes from. I mean, that's not to say that there aren't people in my life that have been flexible and courageous. I mean, my brother finished university at 21, went over to teach in China, bought a one way ticket, [00:32:00] thought he'd go for a year, and he ended up spending, I think, 15 or 16 years.

[00:32:03] So, you know, there were people in my life that were setting an example in terms of getting out there and doing something completely different, for sure. But yeah, I'm not sure where the just try a bit of everything can just go for it comes from.

[00:32:18] Ross: Um. And are there any values that are important to you that I haven't identified? Anything?

[00:32:24] Comparing to others

[00:32:24] Sam: I think what another value that people notice, which I guess is linked to the courageous is is kind of discipline and hard work. People say that they see that in me and like, you know, how are you so disciplined? How do you keep training and how do you? I don't know. Put out so much for the podcast and social media.

[00:32:43] It's funny though, because for me, I'm always, of course, as we all do, comparing myself to the person that's putting out a lot more and is further ahead and is doing it better because of their cameras or audio or whatever. But I guess the other people, they're like, but Sam, you do so much. And so, yeah, I think that's something I am. Is also a value that I like to, um, embody being disciplined, like doing the things that need to be done, getting it done, putting a lot out there, kind of being I don't know, productive in some ways, you know, trying to squeeze a lot out of a week. Um, that's something and I think maybe a bit of kind of integrity as well is is a value.

[00:33:27] Um, um, In in the kind of the professional side of my life and with the podcast and things I Would always want to be seen as someone who they can they can, you know, people can trust I'm not going to try and sell you anything. That is, you know a snake oil Marketing or anything like that, you know things that I genuinely believe in and host guests that I genuinely believe in so yeah, I think integrity and You being genuine are two of the values that I'd hope people would see in me.

[00:33:59] Ross: Oh, [00:34:00] absolutely. Having been a guest on your podcast, you've got this, this great way of just building a connection with your guests and being, warm and friendly and respectful and curious. I think it's a really, a really nice mix you have. And I noticed on your podcast website, you talk about, where you host incredible people,

[00:34:20] which I think is, in my experience of you, typically humble, where you don't, it doesn't really reflect your part in this podcast production, where you create those conditions with your guests to, to help them articulate and talk about their, what's matters to them in such a caring and nurturing environment.

[00:34:41] Don't wait

[00:34:41] Sam: I really appreciate that. And, you know, guests more and more are saying that and I really, really I'm grateful to get that feedback because that's the kind of person I want to be. That is the value I want to put out into the world. And so I guess for people listening who are wanting to grow and I want to, I don't know, apply skills and tools to whatever Avenue.

[00:35:03] You are in going for listeners. What I think that speaks to is the kind of the just going for it. Just like don't doubt yourself. Don't kind of wait until you feel confident and wait until you feel like you've earned the right to talk to Ross or other psychologists that I've got no place speaking to because I'm just a primary school teacher, but it's like, I'm not going to wait until I feel confident.

[00:35:27] I'm just going to do it and learn. So. You know, whatever pursuit people are interested in. I just think go for it. Just keep getting kind of the reps and get the reps and just put yourself out there. Because a year or two later, you find that you start getting feedback like that. And it's like, oh, wow, that's exactly what I was aiming for.

[00:35:45] And it's not like I, I don't know, have done any courses on how to interview on a podcast. I haven't read books about how to interview on a podcast. I genuinely haven't. I've just done, done it. I've just done it. And you just learn by doing it. Don't you?

[00:35:59] Ross: [00:36:00] Oh gosh, I love, I love that, what you're describing here, because you, you encourage us all to learn by doing and your posts and your, your presence on the podcast. you said there that just gave me goosebumps. You said it's, well, that's the person I want to be.

[00:36:17] Sam: mm

[00:36:18] Ross: And the way you describe that, it feels like you're on this journey, you're using your values as your, as your guide and, and you're trying to bring them to life and it takes time.

[00:36:29] That's the other point that I love from what you've just said.

[00:36:32] It takes time

[00:36:32] Sam: It does. And I say that because I need to remind myself constantly. Because I'm sure people listening can relate to this as well. The frustration like the, this should be happening quicker. I've been doing this now for, I don't know, the podcast has been going for two years. I should have so many more subscribers and the sponsors should be knocking at my door, etc.

[00:36:51] And I should just give up because there's no point. I say out loud because I need to remind myself that this takes time and thankfully, I've got people like you other people on, you know, LinkedIn and I've got friends and family around me that are saying, Sam, it takes time. It does just take time. And it's just about consistency.

[00:37:10] And, you know, It's all, you know, it's easy to hear that and say that, but it is difficult on the, the days, the weeks where you're just feeling like, oh, it's time to give up, but you just need to remember it. And you just need to talk to people. You know, I talked to a friend just yesterday, um, about, oh, I just feel like I could give up.

[00:37:28] And he's like, but Sam, why'd you do this? I do it because I love it. How long have other podcasts taken to take off? Yeah, they've taken like five years. Exactly. So stick to it. Keep going. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:37:48] Ross: When, when tech, when we have technical challenges, when we have just feeling the pressure of keeping that consistency and publishing. And sometimes I feel like guilt. like, Oh [00:38:00] God, what if people are expecting an episode this week? And. I just think, come on Ross, just know that this break will, will do you good and, and revitalize your connection with what you love doing.

[00:38:13] Um,

[00:38:17] Sam: you of that as well? Is it more of one than the other?

[00:38:21] Ross: it's a bit of both. It's probably more the internal conversation actually, because I think a lot of people around me just now see me. As a podcaster, and sometimes I get a bit niggly when it feels like they just think I am a highly successful podcast with sponsors. They just assume that.

[00:38:42] And I'm like, no.

[00:38:46] And it's really important to me. And, and you're right, those, those moments we get a feedback from our guests or from, from listeners. Make it worthwhile. And those, those bits of feedback often pop up at just the right time. Yeah.

[00:39:04] Sam: On, on the very day that I'm thinking, forget this, someone will message and say, that episode was great. It was, it helped me so much. You're like, oh, okay. Well, I've got to go for another month now, haven't I? Because they messaged me

[00:39:18] Ross: Yeah. So, so listeners, PSupers and, and listeners to Sam's podcast too. If you are thinking, Oh, I'd really love to episode. Please, please, please tell us because it means the world to us.

[00:39:34] Sam: Yeah, and that's something as well that I need to remind myself That's what some that's what people do for me And I feel like I don't do enough for other people because it's it's the same on linkedin It's the same on social media and things where people have taken the time to comment on a post or write something encouraging I keep having to remind myself and it's actually one of my kind of new year's resolutions to Reach out to more people and [00:40:00] thank them or tell them they're doing a good job or you know Say i've listened to this episode.

[00:40:05] Kindness has a ripple effect

[00:40:05] Sam: It was great. I saw that post. It was really good because I feel like it I don't do it enough. And that's the thing about compliments and positivity and things, isn't it? Is it just spreads out? It just has a ripple effect. Kindness has a ripple effect. And so, you know, it's like, yeah, one little kind word.

[00:40:20] And then everyone feels a little bit more motivated to pass it onto the next person, onto the next person.

[00:40:26] Ross: lovely. Now Sam, I'm gonna, have a go at bringing part one to an end. So I'm gonna finish part one with the, in the traditional way, with a song choice. So Sam, imagine you had a song that announced your arrival in a room, whether it's real or virtual, over the next few months, not forever. What song choice would that be and why?

[00:40:46] Sam: This is so hard because I've got two. I've got two.

[00:40:50] Ross: Okay, you can share both of them, but then I might have to force your hand.

[00:40:54] Sam: Are you sure? I know as a host when you will just want someone to pick one. Okay, I will share both one of them. My favorite band of all time probably is Folds and they've got a song called Providence now I just love that word Providence, which I mean I have to look up the meaning but I understand It's something about kind of, you know, God or nature is like your spiritual power or or What's the other meaning I did write it down Like the preparation for the future or something like that.

[00:41:23] I think it's kind of, you know, I'm not doing a very good job explaining the meaning here, but it's something along those lines. And so I like the word, but also it's a very kind of heavy high tempo song. And you know, I always imagined if I was ever a boxer that it would be the song that I come out to because it's got this kind of like, you know, kick in and then it goes and it's really heavy and I like that.

[00:41:44] So I like the title and I also like the way that it kicks in as well. there's another song by a band called Idols who are maybe one of my more recent favorite bands. And they've got a song called Pop, Pop, Pop. And one, one word that they keep repeating is Freud and Freud, which I don't know if you know [00:42:00] is kind of the meaning of that, as in taking joy in other people's joy and successes.

[00:42:05] Taking pleasure in their So it's the opposite of the other German word, which is, I can't remember, but it's the taking pleasure in people's unfortunate or misery or whatever. Sorry, go

[00:42:15] Ross: it's schadenfreude.

[00:42:17] Sam: exactly, there you go. I'm sure your, your language is better than mine.

[00:42:20] Ross: oh God, no. That's, I think that's the only word I can mispronounce in German.

[00:42:26] Sam: So yeah, I like, I like that. And obviously the lyrics kind of linked to that. And there's some other kind of lyrics about kind of being macho, but also being vulnerable and these kind of things. So I like that one as well. And also, I like both of those bands because, I mean, I mentioned both of those bands because I think they kind of both symbolize my love of music.

[00:42:48] But also that it's funny that when you get into kind of the more spiritual side of things, mindfulness and meditation, like I needed to slow down and calm down because I was always rev, always like working on high revs, and that was hard to deal with, and I needed to slow down. But then it's like I got to a point where.

[00:43:09] I was too slow and I was too calm and I kind of and I didn't want to let myself get like excited by things and like Dance along to these bands that I love or or play my guitar really loud like the rock music Like I didn't do it for a couple of years because like I wanted to chill out and then I needed to remember to Come back to those bands that are like I've been listening to you for years and I just love and I get a complete buzz when I listen to them or play along to them.

[00:43:35] And so, yeah, they're two bands that really mean a lot to me as well. So that was my probably it should have been a much shorter explanation, but there you go.

[00:43:43] Ross: No, not at all. And I tell you what. It's schadenfreude. Because it's you, Sam, I think we're going to allow you to have both of them.

[00:43:50] Sam: I'm honored.

[00:43:51] Ross: got this very clear picture. The first one is your walk on music. So I'm seeing you in a silk dressing gown.

[00:43:58] Sam: Oh, yeah,

[00:43:59] Ross: With kind of [00:44:00] Super Sam on the back.

[00:44:01] Sam: yeah. Shadowboxing as I come out. Yeah, yeah.

[00:44:03] Ross: Sponsored by the Insight Podcast. And then the other one is for other scenarios in life. So. On this occasion, now don't get ideas other guests, other future guests, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna allow you to have two.

[00:44:19] Sam: I appreciate that. Thanks for us

[00:44:21] Ross: Thank you.

[00:44:26] That's it folks, part one of my chat with Sam in the bag. But fear not, he'll be back next week, when we'll explore the skill that we both share, that is, the capacity to worry about what other people think about us. you'll find the show notes for this episode at peoplesoup. captivate. fm or wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:44:46] If you liked this episode, we'd love it if you told us why. You can email at people soup dot pod@gmail.com. Now on the socials piece, supers, there are some changes to our profiles. I've stopped posting on Twitter because I no longer value the place it has become. I've also retired my Facebook page for people. So as my confidence in the platform has diminished greatly, I'm still posting on Instagram at People Soup, and I'm on LinkedIn too, as well as a new account on Blue Sky.

[00:45:16] Just search for my name. Now more than ever, you can help me reach more people with the special people soup ingredients. Stuff that could be really useful for them. So please do share, subscribe, rate, and review. Thanks to Andy Glenn for his spoon magic, for his vocals. But most of all, dear listener, thanks to you.

[00:45:36] Look after yourselves, pea soupers, and bye for now.

[00:45:41] Sam: maybe I, you know, guitar robo combo, we could put it together. I'm imagining like that scene from Peep Show. I don't know if you ever watched Peep Show, where they do the advert music with the dread.