[00:00:00] Intro music and welcome

[00:00:48] Sue: I love negative feedback because it helps me to be like, all right, how can I make this more whole? and if someone has given me feedback on something I thought was missing and I can then go back to them and be like, you know, thank you so much. Like, I really [00:01:00] appreciate you being honest with me.

I've actually made this improvement. Here you go. that would just, you know, completely repair any, any trust breach because you're showing that you're in it to help people. You're not just in it to create a quick buck.

[00:01:14] Tracie: Welcome in everyone today, I'm joined by Sue McLachlan of the unicorn advisory. And if you haven't come across Sue yet, she has an online business strategist and Kajabi expert. She loves talking about Kajabi marketing course creation and launching online businesses. And that's what you'll hear in these special sessions where you can drop in on us having an inside chat about hot topics in the online business world.

And in today's we're going to go back to the low ticket offer conversation and dive a bit deeper. Talk about breaking and rebuilding trust. When to use and when to reject feedback and what support can look like plus how to actually use low ticket offers to boost your overall business strategy. [00:02:00] So grab that cup of coffee or cocktail, sit back and join our conversation on low ticket offers.

[00:02:06] Sue: to help someone grow their confidence, they need to trust you. By buying that smaller priced, it gives them the space to be able to trust you to then buy the bigger offer.

And , there's multiple ways to do that. And, , it might be something where they could do it through. listening to on podcasts or reading blogs or watching YouTube or, or something like that, but actually having that sense of this is what it's going to be like if I work with this person, not just if I consume their content, like this is, it's a closer experience potentially to, what it would be like to work together.

and that just helps build trust and, , business is all about relationships and it's all about building trust. people don't tend to just drop, four and five figure. Sums with someone that they don't know and trust. and it's all part of a, like, when you build your audience, you're building your audience's trust in you as a person to solve their problems.

And that's why I just, I love having that opportunity where it's, you can go [00:03:00] that little bit deeper than you can with your free content with someone and you, you give them that chance to, to work with you and trust you. it's, It's fantastic. I love it. I love having, all sorts of different options of ways for people to, to work with you as well.

[00:03:13] Tracie: Yeah. And you're giving people permission to say yes. Because to the point that you were just saying about emotional buyers, everybody is an emotional buyer. Difference is how much logic, how much justification that they layer on in order to talk themselves into something or talk themselves out of something, right?

You know, it's very much, like you had this saying, you're like, Oh, Sue's my human. I want to work with her, you know, whatever she's offering. I don't care. I want in. Yeah. And then you see a price tag and it's like, okay, what do I need to move around? How do I need it? What is, what, what, what changes, what, what, what, what, right.

And that's that logic part coming in. And when you offer somebody something that is less than a hundred, but especially like less than the [00:04:00] 50, then you're giving them permission to just say yes, to follow that gut instinct and then let them decide, you know, what that outcome is. Right. I mean, again, it builds that trust in themselves.

for those of you that are, you know, more B2C, like you're, you're directly just human to human and not like to other entrepreneurs or larger businesses, then it lets them be like, yeah, I was right. This sweater is cool. I'm so glad I took a chance.

[00:04:30] Sue: Yeah. You know,

[00:04:32] Tracie: whatever your version of that is, you know, um, it, it gives them that permission to trust themselves as well as to, to learn more about you and to trust you as the business owner.

Yeah, definitely.

[00:04:47] Sue: it's just that trust will help because, , I had a situation recently where I, I purchased a 37 workshop and. I had the opposite reaction. It made me not want to, work with that person because I went through their [00:05:00] training and I felt really underwhelmed and I didn't feel supported in implementing the things that they were teaching.

And they then offered their, , 5, 000 coaching program. You know, it made me not do it. So, , it could just be that I don't gel with that person and that's okay. Like I gave them a chance and you will find that there are people in your audience who do that too. But that's where, , I would far rather have someone that was just like, yeah, that's all right.

I don't want to go further off a 37 offer than someone who purchased say, , a multi thousand dollar. Yeah. Program and then got in it and was just like, Oh gosh, that was such a, you know, they just have a bad experience because they didn't, , get along with you or whatever. It's, it's a lot easier to sort of, , walk away from that decision at a lower price point than it is at a higher price point.

And I don't have like negative feelings towards this person. I'm just like, well, I probably wouldn't choose to continue working with you. I would choose to continue with working with someone else where I've done, , something as a similar program. And. felt that it helped me more. And like I said, it might be a teaching style thing.

It may just be a way [00:06:00] that they've got things, set up, but, yeah, it helps you sort of trust in your own decisions when you can go through that process and feel good about making the decision. And you're giving people an opportunity to be able to have that experience. For themselves, regardless of the outcome.

[00:06:15] Tracie: Exactly right. And there's, there's two sides to that example that, that you just gave, there is, the, the freedom of choice and the examples and the real life living through it, that the buyer has. But there's also the responsibility of the seller. And we'll save this for another episode, but I want to make sure to pop this in.

It is making sure that the copy that you're writing, the sales messaging that you're giving sets up appropriate expectations. That is

[00:06:41] Sue: exactly what went wrong with this. The copy, what I thought I was going to get wasn't what I got. So it kind of made me feel disappointed. Yeah. So it made

[00:06:49] Tracie: me feel like it was great marketing because you wanted to buy it and you bought into it, but it made you feel like it was crappy salesmanship because you're like, wait, that's not what I thought I [00:07:00] was getting.

Right. And we can't control everybody's perceptions, but we can do our damndest to make sure that we are very clear and we are very transparent, that we are very honest and truthful about what it is. And when you were given that example, it reminded me of one that I did that, I. Signed up for a freebie and it had a, a, you know, a workshop upsell, right.

And I was like, oh, okay, cool. It was like, because this is something I was really interested on. I wanted to kind of geek out about it. I love instant access. I'm not a fan of dripping because it's like, I've dedicated this time. Let's go all in. I could get it. I think it was only like 17. It might have only been seven.

It was seven. And yes, side note to everybody listening, you are hearing us repeat very, very similar numbers because of the psychology of pricing. So you will see 7, 9, 17, 27, like repeated over and over again. And it's not just us. Harping on the same example. It's actually what people are choosing for pricing psychology.

So [00:08:00] that was another little sidebar, but, like in this one, I was like, okay, this is awesome. This sales page is telling me I'm going to learn these things and I'm going to get a more enhanced. Version of what I just got as a freebie. So this is awesome. Then when I actually went to watch it, which was immediately, it was literally the person reading the page, like one by one, like not even expanding on the stuff that we were supposed to, it, it was an excerpt from a live coaching call.

So this was probably an asset that she had given, you know, a membership or something, a coaching group. And, it was her basically just going over it. And I was like, that did not add a single piece of value to me. I wasn't looking for the audible version of this. I didn't read it to me. I needed more info or examples of how to answer these questions that I was doing in this.

and that is another thing where like, if it would have just been not gelling with her or [00:09:00] her energy or, you know, like, like how, How this was going through. That's one thing. But whenever you feel like, um, you didn't get what you bought regardless of the price, that is an opportunity as a business owner to look back at that example and see what doesn't match up and then check your own stuff to make sure that you haven't accidentally done the same thing.

[00:09:23] Sue: And that's where it's that feedback thing, like really asking people for feedback on it, especially if it's something that you, you know, think has the potential to expand into a bigger program, like what Tracie was talking about earlier, how she created that, you know, initial 17 workshop and has then improved and expanded as she's got feedback from people about what's missing.

Like, talking to people and going, Hey, you know, did, this deliver what you expected? What was missing? how could this be improved? And it's so funny because I had that emotional reaction and I hadn't considered that that was exactly the reason why. And it was literally a, It was that sense of disappointment because I didn't get what [00:10:00] I thought I was going to, to get.

So it's quite funny that I shared that and you picked up that exactly. Cause I was like, yes, that's right. Cause I remember even going back to the sales page and going, no, I'm pretty sure they said that they would be this, you know, this guide and this, you know, strategy and, and all it was, was like two minutes on a video, like whipping through something so fast.

That was like, Oh, I don't know if I get it. yeah.

[00:10:21] Tracie: And for you and me to say it was fast, considering we both watch things on like double speed. Yeah. It's, it's very much that case of at that point. And this is as a business owner. Remember this, it does not matter. The price point that is an incident of broken trust.

[00:10:37] Sue: Exactly.

[00:10:38] Tracie: If you ever get it back, you will have to work multitudes more to gain it back from that individual. Right. Let alone the group of people that, that did that.

[00:10:49] Sue: And say that that's you in that situation and you've done that with your audience and you're like horrified that, you know, you could have potentially done that.

That's why it is such a great opportunity at these, you know, even at these [00:11:00] smaller price points. And even if it does take a little bit more. of you and your energy and inputting into it, like no doubt you're wanting to create these offers, not just to grow your audience and to create money. You're wanting to create these offers to actually help people and to, to give them something, or if they purchase it, sure, if they go on to buy something else, that's awesome.

And that, you know, increased lifetime customer value and everything, but. You should be creating something that even if they just buy that one thing, that's still getting value out of it. That's still feeling like you delivered on what you said you were going to. And if you find yourself in this situation where someone gives you negative feedback, don't take that as a personal attack.

And don't take that as something where like you're a failure and you're not good at doing this or anything like that. Sometimes when you're so in the weeds, you don't realize. Because it's so natural for you, especially if you're teaching something that you use in your business every day, and it's like second nature and you don't have to think about it.

And, you know, I'm very guilty of this sometimes with, um, with some of my Kajabi stuff and some of the jargon that we can use [00:12:00] is to forget what people are like when they're not that far down the path. And by giving, you know, people who've gone through your program, the opportunity to give you, feedback about it and to, and negative feedback.

Especially when I, I love negative feedback because it helps me to be like, all right, how can I make this more whole? and if someone has given me feedback on something I thought was missing and I can then go back to them and be like, you know, thank you so much. Like, I really appreciate you being honest with me.

I've actually made this improvement. Here you go. that would just, you know, completely repair any, any trust breach because you're showing that you're in it to help people. You're not just in it to create a quick buck. And unfortunately in our industry, there are a lot of people like a scary number of people who they're only.

Yeah. You know, thing is to create a buck and, and, you know, I love creating money and income and, all that kind of stuff, but I also love doing it and feeling good about it and feeling good about how I'm helping people and making money, not just going, I want to make a million bucks and sell whatever I can and not care about it.

So, That's

[00:12:58] Tracie: integrity, [00:13:00] right? Yeah. That is showing that part. And that's where sometimes we might need to do a bit of padding around ourselves, take the time to process and remember. I am not my business. My business is not me. Even if you're a party of one, you are not your business. Your business is not you.

And you might need to bring in some help with that. And, and I don't just mean like coaching to help, you know, work through anything. I mean like an actual other human to actually read those stories.

[00:13:28] Sue: Oh my gosh, reviewing is like the best. Yeah. There's a reason why I asked Tracie to review, to do her copy magic review on my pages.

It's because when you are too close to things, you don't see it. And, and having someone else's eyes and also someone who maybe doesn't have the knowledge that you have will help you, to see if you are, you know, Explaining stuff in a way that's kind of going over people's heads, which be quite common

[00:13:52] Tracie: too.

But yeah, so you can get help like, with someone helping you read the surveys. If you're like, I'm a little too close, I'm a little [00:14:00] too scared. And then for the preventative side, you can get people help by reading the stuff that you're actually putting out there. And, and giving them access to whatever the thing is and be like, does this match for you?

whenever you get the feedback, whether it is the before or the after, there's also, again, that emotional detachment to be able to, to say. I don't understand, right? Because it's because someone has feedback for us. It may be a great point, but we're still separate humans. So it's okay. If you don't understand what it is that they're trying to say that they need because you think so differently, right?

So it's not you being attacking the, the reviewer. Yeah. If you go. Okay. So you said that this is here and I want to include it, but I don't understand what's missing because in my mind it works like this. So how does it work in your mind? Right. So there's those pieces to that, um, that help in and on, on feedback, on, on emotional security on all that we could do a [00:15:00] whole other episode,

[00:15:00] Sue: but I just will add one last thing before we wrap this up around feedback is sometimes people will give you feedback on something they felt.

Was missing or wasn't right about your program and you, it doesn't, it's not always, Right. Like valid. Yeah. Valid. The customer is not always right. Like it's really important to listen and be like, Oh my gosh, you know, try and be objective about it, but sometimes you'll get feedback and they'll be like, Oh, well I thought it was gonna, you know, include this and you can go, I don't actually know what gave you that impression.

And, uh, and it could be that, you know, you look back or you get someone to look back and you're like, well, that, You know, there was nothing to indicate that would be included. I'm not sure why they thought that that would be included. And that may be a situation where you just refund someone, because obviously they thought it was going to be something and it's not, and that, that is okay too.

But it doesn't mean just because someone says something that you have to implement it. Like when you're getting feedback, like one of the things that's really important to look for is patterns, like [00:16:00] multiple people saying the same things. It's not that if one person gives you feedback and, and you're like, Oh my God, it's all terrible.

Like their feedback needs to be valid and it needs to be tracked back. Like if you're getting five people saying, Oh, well I thought this thing was going to be included. And you go on the sales page and you're like, well, I can see how they took that. From that, then that's really important information, but it's not always the case, sometimes people just expect, you know, from their 37 product that they will have an entire business created out of it at the end or whatever they said, you know, that they'll expect all of their earthly problems to be solved or they didn't read it properly or, or other things, whatever

[00:16:37] Tracie: they're bringing in, right.

It's whatever they're bringing into that conversation. You're going, wait, what are you talking about? Like, Hey, what? Yeah. Did I,

[00:16:45] Sue: did I misinterpret that? And maybe, maybe it is, maybe it was clear on the sales page and they just didn't read it properly. And you go back and they're like, Oh, Oh yeah. Okay. Now that that's on me.

So, so feedback is good, but you don't have to change your entire business [00:17:00] just because exactly. Yeah.

[00:17:01] Tracie: Yeah. Yeah. Very, very much so. And that's also like where multiple, you know, multiple feedback from multiple different things can, you know, can really help, but you do not have to completely change your business because of someone's opinion.

[00:17:12] Sue: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[00:17:14] Tracie: yeah, it, it just look at it as an invitation to explore and to really like investigate. And, and as Sue was saying, like, like check, it's like, let me reread this, you know, was there anything I said, let me watch, like if you did a webinar version or any other sort of like pop up group challenge, you know, was there anything that you said when you were excited and you were in the heat of the moment and it's crap, I wasn't actually including that.

Right. That's again, where that transparency and that integrity comes in where, you know, like where, where you can make it right. And it becomes that, that lesson, you know, for the future, it's like note to self stick only to talking points do not, you know, and if it happens, that's okay, you know, hopefully.

It'll just be like five people and not

[00:17:58] Sue: 500, right? Well, exactly. [00:18:00] And maybe someone will bring something up that wasn't included and you're like, Oh, I was going to do that. And then I changed my mind and then I took it off. So then you can say, well, that's fair enough that you, you know, how about I offer you a refund because I was going to, and then I didn't.

And, and, you know, I was just talking about something like. Two months ago. And yeah, but I, I really love that. I love that. What you said, it's an invitation to, to explore like it, it doesn't, it's not necessarily a reaction that you need to make. And yeah, please, please treat feedback as much as if you have an emotional reaction to feedback, close the feedback and come back to it the next day.

That is fine. Yeah,

[00:18:35] Tracie: definitely. Yeah, it is okay. As much as we want to read our own, like, especially if we're going to use it for voice a customer, like, we want that intimate knowledge as we're trying to think of what to do. But it's okay to put predictions in place until It's a little bit easier and it's a little bit easier because that that's just practicing separating yourself from your business.

Right. And that that's a muscle. It [00:19:00] takes, it takes a bit of time for anything. So have a business bestie, you know, your partner may be a little tired of you at this point. So you might want to pick somebody else. You know, if you, if you have any team members, you know, ask them, in just kind of like, do what you need to for yourself to remind yourself.

It's like, this is not a personal attack. This is not personal feedback. Even if somebody is like, I hate their voice. I'm never listening to them. Great. You know, you've probably had somebody in your life when you were young who had that voice and it triggers you. I get it. That's. And that's your personal story.

I'm going to keep going, you know, it's, it's those kinds of pieces. It's like, um, kind of like that part in, in Harry Potter, where they come up to the cabinet and you're supposed to think of like the worst thing and then turn it into something funny, that's kind of what you have to start doing, you know, with whenever feedback, becomes a bit more criticism,

[00:19:53] Sue: you know,

[00:19:53] Tracie: and then.

And then you turn it into whatever, you know, looks silly, like, um, you know, professor Snape in your grandma's [00:20:00] clothes, like, you know, those kinds of things that you have to do, in order to, stock yourself up. Right. So I think the point of all of this is it's okay to experiment and try with a small dollar offer, you know, and, and just kind of know that there's these pieces that are going to come your way.

But Sue and I like to have holistic conversations.

[00:20:21] Sue: Yeah. We don't, you know, there's no right or wrong, like that's the thing. Yeah. Experimentation doesn't mean you have to do it a certain way. It means you can, you can take things and play around with it. And, I think sometimes we feel, I mean, I don't feel so much this way anymore, but sometimes when you are newer into the digital product business, you go, well, they said like some, you know, X person on the internet said you have to do it this way.

And for every person that says. You have to do it this way. There'll be an equal number of people that say you have to do it that way. and that is the thing is that works for them and their business. And, you know, and, and you might be like, well, I don't even want to do low ticket office at all.

And that's [00:21:00] also okay. Like, you know, it's just an option for an experiment that you can try in your business.

[00:21:05] Tracie: Yeah. And whenever, you know, you're looking up to these people and you're like, I have to follow exactly what they said. Remember they've only come to recommend it because they played with it and they've experimented with it and they've tried it.

So you are just as valid in your own ideas. to play an experiment as the people who you, you deem to be further along or higher in money or whatever it is, that's putting them on a pedestal. And you know, you are just as valid to, to play around with those things. There's no wrong answer. It's just different options that will give you different results.

So as long as you can come to terms with that, you know, go for it. Okay.

[00:21:47] Sue: That's.

[00:21:48] Tracie: Yeah. You know that that's the beauty of it. That's the kind of things that, that we get to do. and it makes it a fun rollercoaster of a ride, you know, and just [00:22:00] remembering that every single decision is not the be all end all of your business.

You get to be fluid. You get to be flexible. And you get to have things that someone might see as a loss, but that you just get to see as a lesson and, and that you can just kind of move and grow from, even if it took you three months, six months, whatever, to, you know, to hatch it into the world and it didn't work out.

That's okay. No next time to test it sooner. Yeah. Yeah. We put a lot of pressure on it and you don't have to. Transparency can be your best friend in this and say, I don't know if I'm going to do this forever, but I want to offer this for 17 bucks right now. Do you want it? Yeah. And see who doesn't just say this is amazing, but actually puts their dollars behind it. [00:23:00]