Alex:

Today’s episode includes mentions of suicide; take care while you’re listening.

Kenny:

It's not until you sit there and say, ‘My name is Kenny’, and you just explain everything. It just starts coming off your tongue. It's just– you just feel at home opening up about that. And everyone's been there; everyone knows what you're feeling.

Alex:

Today’s guest is Kenny Armour, a product development champion for Andy’s Man Club support group. He lives in Kirkcaldy in Fife, Scotland.

In this episode we’ll hear what happened when a father and husband realised his relationship with alcohol was having a negative impact on his family.

Kenny had been struggling with depression and anxiety for several years. He wasn’t feeling himself. Our story starts late one Friday night last year. Kenny was in his garden shed, along with his pet birds, dart board, and bottles of beer.

Kenny:

2021 is when I first realised the problems coping with drink basically. I was using drink as a coping mechanism. And I would come home from work and have a drink to settle, basically numb the pain as I call it. And it become a Tuesday night, I was having a couple, Wednesday I was having a few more, Thursdays, Friday, Saturdays I was having a good amount.

I had my little daughter at the time. So should have been the happiest time in my life. And it wasn't.

It was a Friday night. In the shed I have had the music on, dance music and stuff. And And I had a dart board. So what I used to do was go out with my three or four bottles of beer, and just sitting in the shed, the birds tweeting away. One thing after another was having too much drink. And it wasn't until after midnight, my wife come out to the shed, and was like what are you doing? You need to go get up basically.

I was obviously full of drink at the time. So I was enjoying myself. I was having a good time. And she just says what are you doing? You need to stop this. And she slammed the door on me basically, and went away back to her bed.

It wasn't until the next morning then it really struck me; she left me in the house with the two kids and I was hung over and just didn't know what was going on basically. She left me in the house for the rest of the day. And never spoke to me the rest of the days to be honest.

Then she sent me a text message just saying look I’ll be out until later on today. You need to sort the kids out and basically feed them and I was lying on the couch, struggling to move. Just feeling sorry for myself.

Two young girls, hyper girls just running about the place. I actually ordered them a McDonald's through the JustEat app. And my daughter’s burger come - she was having a happy meal. A burger come with just a slice of cheese in the box. So that was down to me being that hung over I couldn't even order it right. After that it was just… I had to basically take a look at myself and see what was going on with my life. And it took a good two or three weeks until my wife was properly speaking to me again. And obviously having to cut back on drink as well was a major one.

And that was when it really… everything went kinda pear shaped. That was a turning point for me basically. Things need to change.

Alex

well, the most important question is how did you daughter feel when you you got her order wrong with just cheese?

Kenny

I’ve never ordered McDonald’s again. Imagine, just a box come on was just a slice of cheese.

Alex

So what do you think was the catalyst for for drinking – what was the catalyst for it?

Kenny

married in 2018. And obviously spending a honeymoon and stuff and enjoying the weather and it was becoming a wee bit more or had had basically three days of celebrations for the wedding. And then come honeymoon, we're having a drink and stuff. And then at the time, I just got paid off from my work just before my wedding. And I went self employed and it was just that the time obviously with a wedding and stuff. I went self employed just looking after gardens landscaping and stuff. And just dealing with dealing with the stresses of self employment to notice wondering where the next money was coming from when the next job was. And yeah, just having a couple of bottles of beer every night just just took the edge off things and also admitted sleep at night as well, which was a big problem at the time and not sleeping. So have a need to have the balls. Alcohol was just enough to get me to sleep and just take the pressure off me basically.

Alex

You said you'd cut down. Breathing cut it out. Completely why not?

Kenny

So no. I caught back. I had caught my eye previously and that year. And so that was 2021. I'd cut back previously. And I went a couple of months without having a drink. But then, as typical as it could be, you say to yourself, Oh, I could manage to I could manage the goal this weekend. It was I think it was my wife's birthday. And it says, Why don't you just have a drink tonight. So that was me. I had a drink that night, never had a great amount, but I had a drink again, and I got the case back, which led to a couple of bottles of beer every Friday night, then maybe every Saturday night. But then it also led on to further and further again, and there wasn't a toe join, and Andy's man club actually stopped having a drink completely. I just shows enough's enough. So to begin with, that the first couple of weeks of join Andy's man Club was more positive of the week, because I've made it another week without rank I've made another week but outrank them. And then it's just one thing led to another 10 months down the line.

Alex

So how did it affect your, your family life? You obviously say you've got two daughters running around, you know, what was? What was that? How was your relationship with them.

Kenny

So I used to be a case of kids running over happy and not really seen any difference. And me and me just feel an absolute terrible within, within myself, basically. And just a group of kids just letting them be do what they want. And the house and it wasn't fair, because I didn't want to be there. I didn't want them grown up, knowing that I was sad, or even just miserable and stuff. And there's actually a fall on my Facebook of me, sat on the living room floor. And it was my youngest daughter at the time, putting stickers all over my face. And lots of lots of little stickers on my face. And yeah, just finished from the UK in the change because that for this I feel on my Facebook. But my daughter is having the time of her life, whereas I'm setting the opposite and not wanting to be nor want to be here not wanting to live. And yeah, it was just small moments like that, which kinda led up to everything bold enough at once.

Alex

You said you didn't want to live? Did you ever get suicidal?

Kenny

Not fully suicide, I would say I've always been I don't want to be here. I want to be somewhere else where the kids aren't having to deal with me. And I've always says my wife would be better without me and stuff. And always, as part of the depression and stuff you put yourself down you see you don't you don't do well as a person and stuff. So yeah, it was just always a fact. Not that. Not that I would ever do it because of the kids. The kids have always kept me going. But it's just I never want to live the life Life On Lebanon, I want it to be elsewhere. So it's not so much suicide or it's just not being here and not like having the kids to look at me and look at him basically he's miserable.

Alex

What was your first thought when you saw that picture online, you know that you're you're kind of sad face and then your daughter having the time of her life.

Kenny

It just looked an absolute mess. To be honest. It's just as a as a horrible picture to be honest with you. My face is just so miserable. And by the end of the day, my my daughter is loving her life because she's been able to put stickers on on my face.

Alex

But what was your first reaction when you can you remember the exact moment where you saw that picture for the first time? How did you feel? What were the emotions?

Kenny

Just basically sad and it kinda just ashamed really just to see how sad I was. And obviously the kids don't know any difference. So yeah, just just a mess.

Alex

After what had happened, what was the next sort of pivotal conversation that you had with your wife

Kenny

really, it was just to do a join and and his mom club and obviously stopped the drink and started just going forward. And obviously being self employed at a time. Not wanting to work was a big issue for me, sometimes hung over. Other times just not having the motivation to go and watch or money become a problem and money troubles started affecting my wife and she was worried about money situation. So luckily with a little bit of help from Andy's man club and stuff, just attending the groups kind of got myself back on track. And I think it was November last year. One of my good friends is a joiner actually gave me some shafts and I ended up started working with him over the weekend just to get myself over and I'm very grateful for that. To be honest.

Alex

If you think about the the Andy's man club meetings, it was there any specific meeting that helped you massively

Kenny

just actually walking through the first night as for anybody who attends or who has attended, it's the hardest part of it is walking through that first night. But when you actually sat in a room full of thought at the time, I think there was 15 or 16 Boys Just talking about the same and you can relate to every single one of them, even if one voice 21 Or one voice 62 such as the same, you can relate to them. And the other one as there's another boy there who helps out as facilitates is actually went through the same as me. Think wise, he's, he's he's got a young family, and he's actually 100 days ahead of me off the drink. So he's, he's always been pivotal and sending me messages and stuff, and just Yeah, support me.

Alex

How's your life different now.

Kenny

So at first, it took a bit of time to get my wife on board and obviously trust issues with drink and stuff. And so back in January, I went away for a weekend and normally that would be having a drink and stuff. I managed to go without having a drink and I went to a pub on the night and stuff. So yeah, after that came the side looking up I bet bet are common in some of my work was a bit more stable. And it's really been the last for me now. It's been the last maybe two or three months that's really kept forward. For me, it's really pushed on the back of the terminal, the yellow become a facilitator for Andy's man club and book. As things have went on, it's just kind of fell natural for me. And as of two or three weeks ago, I think it would have been, I got announced as a new product development manager at PDCs champion for them. So product development champion, and I'm going to be working full time at Andy's man club.

Alex

What a turnaround. I mean, that's amazing.

Kenny

Yeah, so of course, not even a year of being behind this man club, I just kind of fell natural. And I think the biggest problem for me is, has been a drink and actually been able to stop that drink. It's sorted a lot of issues, though, even in the home and stuff. You're not arguing with your wife, which is she's not worried about you going places to having a drink and be in check every other just the usual.

Alex

Yeah. Did it affect your view of yourself your perception of you as a man or did affect you as a man in some way? Perhaps, for example, you know, as a man, usually considered as a protector. I know you said you had issues around your, your job and financial. So you know, being a provider.

Kenny

I used to doubt myself. And that's when the times when you don't want to be here and stuff. That's you're not providing for your wife and not providing me or your kids always puts you down. And that's part of the reason at night should stay up till two in the morning and things and it's just it's constantly going around in your head. Just worrying about things like that. Yeah, just feeling as a man, basically, because I should vote there. Every day. What can I bring in the money?

Alex

Was there any was there any sort of conversations with your wife where she was alluding to you failing as a man in some way,

Kenny

nor should it she never used to speak to me either. To be honest with you, she used to just share with more than Mannahatta drank, but she was always keen that she personally she's the same as me. She balls up as well, and wouldn't really talk to me about that. And it wasn't until obviously having that drink on that night. She says enough is enough. And you need to change up. You need to stop the drink. And she never liked me drinking anyway. So that yeah, it was just a fun point. Being that drunk night.

Alex

Yeah, yeah, I'm the same when it comes to bottling things up and did that for many years until I started speaking I like I said before I went to Andy's man club, etc. And in Greater Manchester, where I'm from, and you know, that was, that was really beneficial. How did it feel when you went to one this man club and you started to speak? What What? What was the first point that you went there where you actually properly opened up? And how did that feel? Did it feel awkward?

Kenny

You know what, as it's hard to describe, unless you've been to Andy's man club, and that's really hard to describe how it feels because you go in there, I'm not going to speak. I'm too nervous. I never open up. You go in there. And as I said before, those as boys has maybe 1819 year old or some boys interface, or some boys in their 40s or some retired. And it's just a wide range. And it's as not until you sit there and say, My name is Kenny. And you just explain everything. It just starts coming off your tongue. It's just, you just feel a home opening up about and everyone's everyone's been out everyone knows what you're feeling. And to sit in a room where you can relate to that 18 year old or relate to that 65 year old suffering the same things. It's just, yeah, it's just as a completely different feeling. And I've never felt I've never felt like I can open up in one of the meetings. And I think that's what's maybe been good for me. And even even the weeks I don't need to open up or everything's good. I can go and smile and it's still nice to listen to everybody else who maybe doesn't have an app. Positive we can do as an isn't doing as good as accurate as I am just now. So yeah, that's just as we are. If you've been yourself you might know how I mean,

Alex

that it's, it seems very apt to that you're wearing that T shirt with the Andy's man club, it's okay to talk because that was perfect for someone like us bottling things up.

Kenny

Definitely. I grew up my apprenticeship and the first 10 years base of work was the oil and gas industry. So we worked in an environment that was there was one woman involved, and obviously had office staff on the shop floor work. And there was only one woman, so I never ever used to speak out about it and going through my mental health and stuff. When I first realised I suffered with that. And on medication, I would never speak to people about it. And nobody knew I was on medication. And at the time, it was it was just one of the things that was never spoke about. So yeah. And the reality is, if I spoke about things, they would look at me and think, Oh, he's a weird door, or look at him. You don't want to speak them because he suffers. And that's how I came to. That was my, my way of looking at the tape.

Alex

How do you think you are a better man, a better father, a better employee compared to before when you were drinking?

Kenny

Just been able to speak out more, it's just been a big difference. And so obviously got a lot off my chest. So I'm a lot happier now. And it's just you're not, you're not living a miserable life, to be honest. It's just Yeah, it's completely swap life around. And even simple things like, last week, I took my daughter cost a coffee for the first time. And I never do stuff between been anxious to go down and order and things because it's normally my wife it does that actually went unmuffled an order than she had the best time ever. Don't get me wrong, it cost me 750, which, for me was like shocked by it just just to just to see her face, it was worth just just to see her face and enjoy most of that. Whereas previously years, I would never do that I would never have just, I'd never take her to the park now and again. But other than that, I would never I would never take her anywhere.

Alex

So it was good. Did you have some sort of anxiety around going into restaurants, cafes, things like that.

Kenny

So yeah, to be honest, this is where this man clubs made me realise a lot of things because going back to when I was 1516 year old being an a football team, I used to actually stream at the local for local professional team and I was I was looking to go full time with them. And the anxiety always backs back to them. And like no looking back it was it was times like of odd Chinese takeaways gotten a new shops that have never been making any kind of phone calls has always been I've always anxious about and as normally my wife does that. I always call him a PR because she's always there. A pa sorry, because she's always doing all my, my work for me, basically. So all the new things even last week when Acosta was very as very nerve racking for me. And just simple things, but for some reason it plays over my head, and I just don't like doing that. So yeah, it's just one of the things but as the last couple of months have gone on, it's just one of the things I have to step above and just get on with it. Really,

Alex

the big question I've got is Have you got a photograph now with you with a smiling face with your with your daughter putting stickers on your face?

Kenny

I'll need to get one actually, yes. I've actually got a picture of Swarthmore of my top on and a mile outdoors making the shape beforehand. And I posted on my Facebook just a couple of weeks ago and it's just seeing basically, it was just gay. I was just saying they're reflecting on us. That's amazing to see. Because a year ago, without Andy's man club, she might not even had a dad in our life, or what kind of dad Bucha have had. So that was quite quite emotional to be honest with you.

Alex

of your of your daughter's said any How old are your daughters now.

Kenny

So my oldest, she'll be eight this year and my youngest one is just 138

Alex

year old and she made any sort of reference to the fact that daddy's happy again or anything like that.

Kenny

Always says I'm less grumpy. I was always one for losing my head and just showing down at them just for silly things but being strict with them. I'm still the one that has a strict one, but I am less grumpy. But the problem being as well as deviously not speaking out about being anxious and stuff and actually speaking to other people, people not to me, speaking about being anxious, has made me realise that it's actually affecting my daughter as well because she's scared to do things. She's losing confidence. And I think those don't know me as well because even the likes of Costco for a prime example was Costa last week. She was very nervous about ordering what she wanted. Whereas normally I would, I would force her to order it because I was too anxious to do it. So yeah, It's just a knock on effect.

Alex

Or you mean in the past your wife would have ordered?

Kenny

Yeah, it's always been my wife who has ordered everything. Yeah. So she asked me step and above it and try and say not because obviously it has affected my daughter as well, who's only and she's going to be it she's, you can notice it and small things with her.

Alex

Well, you know, I mean, she's still young enough, you're in a great position now to, you know, you're showing her on a day to day basis, the, you know, the the improvements that you've that you've made, and, you know, kids do what you they don't listen to what you say they do what you do, which are late. Yeah, exactly.

Kenny

Yeah, definitely. Small things were fast. She was, he was involved in sports, they are school. And normally she would hit things like that. And she wouldn't go with that. And she went along, and I made that difference, because I went along as well. And it's the first time I've been able to do that personally as well. So yeah, it's just small knock on effects, it's affect the kids in a better way as well.

Alex

And I know what you mean with the with the with anxiety because I've had that those situations in you know, walking through supermarkets and you feel like people are looking at you and they're not but yeah, it's all in your on your head or, you know, like you say you're ordering things or whatever. And you're you become, I don't know about you, but I was quite self conscious. And it was just a case of just keep pushing myself to do these things to get out of my comfort zone.

Kenny

And I really can't get tongue tied and my wife when I told her I was looking at grant this man called full time and I'd applied she says you'll never manage that. And even today, and I says I had a podcast to do. She says how are you going to speak because you just get tongue tied. So yeah, it's just getting over that basically. Just stepping out my comfort zone and being able to speak to people has helped me and helped my daughter as well. She's less anxious she's still guy you can still see bet centre but it's obviously just trying to get get out of the ways of the way I've been doing that as well.

Alex:

I'm so glad that Kenny was able to dig himself out of the situation that he was in. I myself have never had a dependence on alcohol, thankfully. But I know a lot of men who have, and it's a vicious cycle of abuse that affects not only themselves but their family and their loved ones. Kenny's story was a typical one of men not opening up and keeping things hidden, telling other men was his first step on the road to recovery. The episode made me reflect on my own mental health as I'd been putting off seeing a counsellor for many years. It just wasn't on my radar, it's often hard for men to reach out and get the support they need. In my experience, it really lightens the load by allowing you to release that mountain of negative energy. And those negative thoughts that swirling around your mind onto someone else who is more professionally trained to help you. I find myself thinking, why did Kenny take so long to reach out for the help that he needed? And there's just one word that answers that question. resistance. Resistance was holding him back. It's the fear of going into the unknown and being vulnerable. In many cases, we're rewarded for venturing outside of our comfort zones to face our fears and our resistance, however difficult it might be.

Thanks for listening to today's episode with Kenny Amour. If you'd like to learn more about the podcast, make sure you go to our voices podcast.com. You can also follow us on Apple podcasts. And while you're there, please leave us a review. It would really helped me out to grow the show. Thank you so much for listening, and see you next week for another great episode.