Welcome to the VP Life Podcast, the show
where we bring you actionable health
advice from Mielein Mainz.
I'm your host Rob.
My guest today has been Spitzdik, a
functional health coach, founder of Vital
Coaching and the creator of the 4F
process, a systems-based framework
designed to restore health by fixing
physiology in the right order rather than
chasing symptoms or diagnoses.
Expect to learn why traditional
functional medicine often misses the mark
despite the best of intentions, how the
4F process, flush, feed, fasten function,
restores momentum across the gut, immune
and metabolic systems and why immune
metabolism, feedback driven coaching and
the order of operations matter more than
protocols or lab tests alone.
Now, on to the
conversation with Vince Pitstick.
Good morning Vince and thank you for
joining us on the podcast today.
This has been a few months in the making
and I know you're busy
so I appreciate the time.
I first got to know you when we worked
together that was a few years back and
things have obviously changed
and evolved a lot since then.
Stuff I'd like to chat
to you about in a bit.
First though, introductions.
You've got quite the
personal journey there.
Some of it I know, some of it I don't.
And we have time.
So I'd love it if you could just start
there with who you are, your background
and how you ended up where you are.
Yeah, I think it really helps listeners
and watchers to pre-qualify myself.
I'm not coming in with
an MD or as a scientist.
I'm coming in myself as a person who was
really really sick as a young child that
then through his journey really developed
the skills, went and got education and
then became a trainer of doctors and
medical systems all over the country.
And that's how I got this really unique
view of functional medicine, Western
medicine, the challenges that exist.
And so for my story, starts all the way
back when I was seven years old, grew up
on the farm and I got chemical exposure
that led to like immune deficiencies that
created, I got strep,
massive strep three times in a row.
And it led to a condition called pandas.
Now understand that this is now, I'm
dating myself here a little Rob, but this
was over boy now 34 years ago.
So and this is one of the things I'm
always challenged by is like back then we
had no idea about pandas.
Yeah, of any of this stuff, right?
In fact, just what was emerging at the
time was identifying symptoms that also
had their own diagnoses, right?
So most of the time.
So what happened to me is I start getting
intrusive thoughts, delusions, obsessive
compulsive pattern behaviors, ticks, you
know, all these different things, right?
At the time, it was thought that all of
this stuff was more behavioral.
So it was a lot of personal
blaming and shaming, right?
Because people just didn't understand,
which is very indicative of humans with
anything they don't understand.
When we know PTSD today, we know that
there's, you know, you know, get brain
injuries today, when we look at, you
know, we look, we know that there's
depression, anxiety, we know these things
exist on a clinical level.
They really didn't then.
And it was all classified behavioral
before we understood what it was.
And I always remember that today with
what people are dealing with how many
people today are dealing with things that
will know what they are in 30 years from
now, and they don't
have 30 years to wait,
which is why I do the
work that I do, right?
So, so now I'm going through, man, this
world of these different doctors, nobody
knows what to do with me.
I'm kind of like a Western medical
medicine dropout at this point,
they start to just kind of believe that
I'm insane and start sending me to
different strange
psychiatrists and things like that.
It's when physical symptoms started to
manifest and gut issues and night terrors
and anxiety, all that stuff.
That finally they're like, "Oh, we think
this is a condition we're now
realizing exists called OCD,
right?
Obsessive Compulsive Disorder."
Now true, okay, true, that
was one of my symptoms, right?
And carries its own diagnosis.
However, that's where we get confused
sometimes in Western medicine where we're
like, "Aha, we have a diagnosis.
Everything flows from that.
So, we'll just work backwards from the
diagnosis or work forwards from the
diagnosis and try a treatment, throw some
stuff in there, and that's when they
wanted to throw medication at me."
Now, what we know about psychiatric
medication 34 years ago is
it didn't work out too well.
A lot, yeah.
Not too many of those kids
ended up actually healthy.
One, and two, many got injured.
We don't talk enough about that.
I saw those kids in those clinics.
I mean, I'll be sitting in the rooms with
my mom and I'd be looking around at nine
years old or 10 or 11 and I'm like
looking at these kids and I'm like, "I
don't know where I am.
I don't know what I'm dealing with, but I
definitely don't know where they are and
I don't think they do either."
You know, drooling and
just, it would put you out.
Like kids would be nodding out like
they're on methadone or something and it
was just like, "I'm like, nah.
I'm going to stick with what I got."
And my mom, that was one of the genius
things about my mom's intuition, although
she got other things wrong
and this one she got right.
And so we started the journey of mental
health through therapy, which I think was
a really, really good choice.
Cognitive behavioral therapy, which I'm a
big fan of still today with
almost any issue you have.
And then we started exploring the world
of natural medicine.
And it really was until I started putting
together as I got a little bit older, one
of the benefits of being a male, when you
get these conditions, is that
testosterone tends to
calm them down, tends to.
Where in girls, unfortunately, estrogen
tends to exacerbate these issues.
And so it kind of helped me a little bit
as I start getting into 14, 15.
In this time, right about
this time, 13 through 15,
I found, I went to enough nutrition over
here, detox doctor over here,
hormone optimization
here, and therapy over here.
And I kind of just stuck
this rickety system together.
And through that process, I got well.
And it wasn't a magic pill.
It wasn't just one thing.
It was this synergistic process that I
was able to put together.
And fortunately, granted, the OCD stuck
with me for a while, then ended up
turning into, I found also at the time
substances that were not the best idea,
but they worked at the time,
street drugs, that also
assisted me in getting better.
However, those drugs
then became a problem later.
What's the solution one day becomes a
problem later, which is also what I
believe a lot about modern psychiatry now
is that a lot of the medications we use
as a temporary solution can become a
problem for many people later, not that
there can't be useful tools.
But we do need a multi-dimensional,
multifaceted approach to healing on a
functional root cause level, and really
deliberate people from the things that
are holding them back.
And that just kind of spurred my journey
in traveling all over learning about
herbology, learning about genetics,
learning about everything that I could,
some in school, some outside of it, some
studying under certain doctors.
I became obsessed with understanding how
we put Humpty Dumpty back together again.
And that was the rest of my journey that
kind of then just in a short note, led me
to developing my own health program near
Chicago, then getting poached by a global
medical company called Medigenics.
I trained under Dr.
Jeffrey Bland and a lot of people at Gig
Harbor Washington, the research facility,
and then also at San
Clemente, California.
And I learned about this whole world of
functional medicine.
And I realized that there's this whole
other world of science that exists that
nobody was paying attention to.
And I was exposed to it.
And I go, "Oh my gosh, you put everything
I already know with this."
It's like, I think
anybody could be unstoppable.
And then that's when I went out for
Medigenics and became a trainer, a
functional medicine consultant, building
practices, training new protocols,
helping them build systems in their
practices to be able to scale cash or
insurance based services.
And I saw how every single doctor tried
to treat in their own way.
And probably my strongest trait is I'm a
pattern, I recognize patterns.
I'm not the smartest, like, you know,
rocket scientist, I couldn't read a book
and study and test, like that's not me.
But I noticed patterns.
And I noticed how different doctors all
tried to solve the same pattern using a
one dimensional process, whether it's one
treatment or one pill.
It's like, it's not a coincidence, Rob,
that when you go to a chiropractor, every
treatment involves an adjustment.
It's not a coincidence.
If you go to a hormone doctor, every
treatment's going to involve a hormone.
And the problem with that specialization
is that most people have more problems in
all the other systems of the body that
need restoration, they need balance, the
ecosystem needs to be restored.
And one poking and prodding of the system
is not going to do that.
And so you, people need to become more
generalist in order
to create real freedom.
And no one's really willing to do that.
So I left after being a trainer for five
years became one of
the top in the country.
And I opened up my own practice called
Nutrition Dynamic at the time, which is
now Vital Coaching, that I took all the
best practices, organized them in a way
that could be done online and see anybody
anywhere in the world.
And then there you have today, we're one
of the largest in the country that that
does this kind of work functional
medicine led by a coach
with a medical team behind it.
So in concierge medicine thing, and we're
trying to grow become the Amazon of
health, because we want to reach everyone
who's suffering anywhere in the world.
Yeah, that's an amazing story.
And I sort of loved the fact that you
pointed to the sort of the psychological
side of it to begin with, I think, in
mainstream medicine, if you're labeled
with a psychological psychiatric
condition, it stops there.
And no one very few practitioners realize
that most of the time, a psychiatric
issue has a physiological
or biological underpinning.
And yeah, of course, you need to deal
with the mental health component of it.
But the mind is a manifestation of what's
going wrong in the
body for the most part.
And yeah, it's it's in psychiatry,
there's this idea that the the body stops
here, right below the neck.
That's it.
Well, that's the whole problem with
modern medicine is that you've got a
system that is based on, you know, the
basically 11 systems of the body, right.
And it's like, I'm going to be the master
of one system, and then all of you can
master your own systems.
And then the way that we're all going to
play nice is I'll stay in my lane, you
stay in your lane, and
we'll refer to each other.
It's all going to work out great.
It's all going to be wonderful.
Everyone's going to make money, no one's
going to get upset at each other for
stepping on each other's toes.
And it seems like
it's this perfect system.
And unfortunately,
once somebody has an
issue past acute phase,
right, so three to six months, in in by
definition, a chronic condition really
has multiple systems that are now
involved, that are
impaired in different percentages.
And so to solve that in a real meaningful
way, we need we would either in the
system that we have in Western medicine,
the endocrinologist would need to talk to
the GI doctor would need
to talk to the cardiologist.
And they have that at Cleveland Clinic,
you know, but we don't do that in the
United States, right.
And so everyone falls through the cracks,
because nobody's talking in that way.
And I don't ever think you're going to
change the Western medical
system to fit that system.
Therefore, there has
to be something else.
And what is that something else?
And everyone that you probably will talk
to is coming up with their own version of
like, what is something else?
You know, and that's what I've done for
myself, I say, well, I can't count on
anyone else to be
synergistic and talk to each other.
So let's create our own place and then
also connect with other practitioners who
are like minded, bring
those things together.
One of our biggest refers are
psychologists, you know, and therapists,
because they begin to realize, hey, these
people, if they get consistent with their
exercise, if they just clean up their
diet a little bit, maybe they run a
little bit of a detox process or
something of the sort, something small
even, while they're doing the therapy,
leads to incredible emotional and
physiologic outcomes,
right, psychological.
And that's what I keep trying to say, if
I had not done so when, for example, with
pandas, one of the things is your, it's
your immune system, it gets overactive.
And when it does, all your energy is
going into sympathetic dominance, fight
or flight, upregulated nervous system.
Do you know how hard it is to think
clearly when you have a dysregulated
nervous system because it's trying to
tell you something's wrong in the body?
Like, good luck, like emotionally trying
to work through your problems when your
body in the inside is being like, you
know, and it's like, you
can soothe that physically.
And then you can also soothe it
psychologically, emotionally, right?
So this top down, bottom up approach
should always be best
practice to achieve wellness.
I can tell you on the business side, the
reason that this fails as someone who
tried to set these systems
up, it costs more money upfront.
It's not as simple.
It then requires you can't just have one
machine or one treatment, and then scale
that thing and improve
profitability like that.
You actually have to sit on it, this
imperfect system that makes a little less
money upfront, but starts getting
outcomes down the road that will start
attracting more people.
So doctors would have to be patient.
And they'd have to get their practice
managers involved and their, and the
people and now you're
going against the status quo.
And people are going to be frustrated
with you because you're
trying to figure it out.
There's this huge desert that you've got
to get through to get to the other side
as a generalist in order to achieve a
practice that is actually
multidimensional in that way.
And most doctors, most practitioners,
they're too afraid of peer pressure.
They're afraid of like insurance not
covering it and they
don't want to go cash pay.
And so the standard of care, insurance
companies, guys in suits who have no
clinical background are telling you how
to treat your patients are also rewarding
you by the way, by the number of pills
you prescribe, which is super messed up.
It's a whole other story.
But like, so you're trying to rip off the
teat of that, move into something
uncomfortable and as someone who coached
them through these things.
If you don't have a coach, if you're
trying to just do this because you feel
inspired and you know
it's the truth, good luck.
No one's making it.
You're going to go back to
doing what you always did.
You're going to check in
and you're going to check out.
You're going to go home and you're going
to love your family.
You're going to take them on vacations
and you're just going
to let it be what it is.
And that's why people don't get better.
Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more.
And I think it just speaks to this sort
of whole, well, not only the
dysfunctional sort of mainstream model
that we've sort of just discussed, well,
you've just discussed in great detail,
but also the functional medicine model.
Now, I suppose,
and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think
this whole functional medicine paradigm
really started maybe in the 60s with
Linus Pauling, who's as I'm sure you
know, is a biochemist.
He started this this idea of
orthomolecular medicine, which is where I
feel that functional
medicine has its roots.
This idea of course, that by utilizing
nutritional, nutritional aid, nutritional
supplements, you can tweak an
individual's biochemistry and hope to
improve a lot of
these chronic conditions.
Now, of course, that is
reductionist in of itself.
And obviously, Dr.
Pauling was just a biochemist.
So he didn't have the full view as you've
just alluded to, since in the field has
obviously evolved and progressed as has
functional medicine.
And people are now going into these sort
of functional medicine clinics and these
settings and these programs and to some
extent, and they are, I suppose, broadly
speaking, making some level of progress.
But as you've alluded to previously, a
lot of them are still struggling and
still falling through the cracks, even
though we sort of moved from this
traditional paradigm of siloed medicine,
where you only ever see one doctor who
operates in with it with through one lens
and through and in one specialty to this
more functional paradigm, but
people are still struggling.
Now, can we shout out Linus Pauling, the
basically the godfather of vitamin C.
Yes, right.
You know, I mean, starting from just one
vitamin, and then that's where what's
interesting about my lineage on this.
Yeah, his understudy was Dr.
Jeffrey Bland.
Yes.
And Dr.
Jeffrey Bland, I had the like, again, I
was this young, I had no idea who I got
to spend time with, like, he's the
Einstein, in my opinion of our time, Dr.
And I, one of the things that I found so
interesting is that when I was young,
learning nutrition, learning all these
things, and I was in the bodybuilding at
this time, here I show up, you know, and,
you know, just huge over
consuming mTOR, you know, whatever.
And I walk in into these functional
rooms, and I get to meet Dr.
Bland and everybody.
And I, I had no idea
what I was about to uncover.
Anyways, I still, I still digress and
laugh at the journey a little bit, you
know, where, you know, we all learn new
things, you know, that's why you might
start like everything's carnivore.
And then you go, Oh, my god, there's this
whole world of this, that and the other,
you know, or whatever your thing is, the
journey is going to take you to very
unconventional places.
I guess that's I'm just laughing at the
road to getting here, you know.
Anyway, of course, what they say all
roads ultimately leads to
Rome in one way, shape or form.
So yeah, definitely.
Yeah, no, I sort of, I
briefly remember reading up that Dr.
Bland was an understudy of Dr.
Paul Pauling.
Yeah, I should have linked that up in a
bit more detail given who I'm talking to.
Anyway, but I suppose fundamentally, and
you've, you've covered this to an extent,
but and we can keep a brief, of course.
But why has functional
medicine failed, do you think?
I mean, it's more, you've, as I said,
you've already spoken about this briefly,
but functional medicine is still missing
the boat in so many ways.
And then I'd love to get
into your fore process.
Now, I mean, again, I've got my thoughts.
It's a sort of
fragmented sort of organ versus
sort of whole systems approach.
And there's very little way in terms of
systemic infrastructure in functional
medicine that has been established.
Again, everybody has their sort of their
MO, their way they approach it.
Instead of being going to a
gastroenterologist, you're now going to
functional medicine specialist to only
focus on this, excuse me, only focuses on
the gut, or only focusing on hormones.
And do you sort of broadly speaking, sort
of find that to be true?
Or do you find that or do you think there
are other reasons why the system fails?
So in the last decade,
you know, functional medicine, year over
year grows, the industry
grows about 26%, which is large, that's a
huge, that's a huge shift.
Same thing, online fitness, you know, I
don't want to bring this up to, we've
seen massive industrial growth.
I mean, people are spending more on
weight loss than ever
before in human history.
Right.
And it seems like the more money that we
throw at the problem,
medicine is at all time high, right?
Like, you know, as part of GDP, right?
More drugs than ever,
more doctors than ever.
And yet we're sicker than ever.
Right?
So there, there seems to be this, this
relationship that we're missing the point
in that, and this is where I'll get to
this is that clearly fitness hasn't
figured it out and put
a dent into it, right?
Clearly functional medicine hasn't to
this point been able to
put much of a debt in it.
And clearly, Western medicine hasn't been
able to stop it either,
for all their benefits.
They all have benefits, all three of
them, but in and of themselves have been
relatively powerless to shift the
morbidity curve in the United States.
Right.
And globally, I mean, it's happening all
over once they adopt the
Western medicine way of life.
And so, or Western way of life.
So let me give you my perspective, two
things on the problem and why.
One is functional medicine still thinks
like Western medicine.
They want to be like Western medicine.
And then therefore,
oftentimes, you've got two camps.
You've got the really, really holistic
practitioner, who's got their one off
thing that they do on everybody.
It's the same, that's the
kind of myopic thought process.
That's the issue.
It's like, it's all just PEMF, or it's
all just H-Bot, or it's all just, you
know, whatever the thing is, you know,
and when they get off on their soapbox,
and they don't work with anybody else.
And so they kind of relegate themselves
to a smaller population of people to
proportionately impact
that then doesn't spread.
And then you got the other group who
looks for adoption, they look to get
certifications and licensing and
functional medicine.
Most of my opinion, when you look at most
of the certifications or licensing and
testing, it's done like Western medicine.
That's why like, if you look at the
naturopath, for example, when they first
started, when it first started coming up,
naturopaths looked like the great hope.
It really did.
Early on, they had their own schools and
all this other stuff, and it
looked like the great hope.
And today, I'm sorry, it's failed
everybody, and it's not
any better for most of them.
And the reason why is they still think
Western medicine, and then they just
apply the functional on the back end.
How you look at solving problems decides
whether your root cause or not, you know,
you can't just run 2700 tests, throw
everything together as a kind of random
treatment, and then see them again in
three to six months,
like, it's not going to work.
Okay, it's just a green pharmacy.
It's not, it's not going to work.
It doesn't work.
Right?
We see that.
Now, I'm glad that other options exist.
Don't get me wrong.
If you're a functional medicine
practitioner, and I'm
not here to poo poo.
I just I don't I still think you're
thinking like a Western alipath.
Right?
It's like, what's the symptom?
And then what pill do I give for that?
You're just given a
supplement rather than a drug.
And it's like, no, that's not it.
It's not enough.
Right?
So the other component of it is not just
the way that we solve problems,
which I take a very inductive or
deductive approach versus an inductive
approach, we've talked
about the differences there.
And there's a book called
the problem of induction.
And if you can bore through it, it will
open your mind to how solving things
through the inductive
method is actually incorrect.
And whenever any industry applies it,
you're doomed to fail.
Because your way of solving problems is
in contradiction to how
the body actually heals.
And so very much so deductive working
through a systematic process towards the
solution is always it.
That's why if somebody comes, let me give
an example that people can understand.
If somebody comes into me, and they have
a blood pressure issue, okay, right,
let's say they have blood pressure issue.
I know that that's going to be a deeper
cardiovascular typically, I mean, 5% of
kidney issues are not vascular nature and
have other other reasons, I understand
that, but for the vast majority,
what I'm going to do is I'm going to work
through a process towards helping the
kidneys, I'm not just going to start with
the kidneys, meaning that like, I'm not
just going to give you a blood pressure
pill and see in three
to six months, right?
Or I'm not going to give you a bunch of
supplements for your blood pressure and
see in three to six months and tell you
to walk and, you know, drink water, like,
like, okay, I get that.
What I'm going to do is I know I'm going
to start with opening lymphatics liver,
getting fluids off the top of the body,
reducing inflammation, then I'm going to
move to the gut where most cellular
inflammation comes from to start to give
the kidneys more of a break, then I'm
going to do some intermittent fasting,
fast feasting, because I can
clean the kidneys out easier.
And then by the time I even got to the
kidneys, if I wanted to put a blood
pressure medication in, I wouldn't need
to, they'd already be solved.
The trickle down effect is what you want
for the solution to the diagnosis.
Not like everything is like diagnosis and
work backwards, right?
You want to have a process forwards and
that can be hard for people to understand
if they've been medically trained for a
very, very, very long time.
And I fully respect that and I understand
that and I understand if people disagree
with me, but if it's bad enough, you
could certainly put a blood pressure
medication in, but you're still going to
go work the process forward.
Okay.
So one is how we solve problems and then
two is how we treat, like, what is the
process of walking people through?
How do we actually solve problems?
And so what do I mean by that is what is
the treatment plan like?
And so for me, I know for a fact that if
someone doesn't have a relationship
during their care, the number one element
to healing is the human element.
That is why right next to penicillin, the
number one greatest invention in human
history for healing is the nurse because
every treatment in the world
is delivered by a nurse today.
And without that relationship, right, to
the doctor and to the nurse,
healing is almost impossible.
There's no trust.
Your nervous system's
not going to calm down.
You're out there on your own.
Your body's going to stay in something
called cell danger response.
And so the reality is your body will
resist any kind of treatment because it's
this self-sustaining vehicle.
And without you having the human element
of healing, I don't think it exists.
And so for me, that's why I believe so
heavily that if you don't have a coach
that's staying in contact or a process
where you're having consistent contact or
community with your
patients or your clients,
your success rate goes through the toilet
or goes down the toilet.
There has to be an element of lifestyle
change activated by the patient or the
client while you're providing a therapy
and walking them through the journey of
healing that includes mind,
body and dare I even say spirit
or 100%.
I mean, we've had related relationship.
We've had discussions about God and the
spiritual matters as well.
And I mean, at this point in time, all I
want to do is talk about cell danger
response because yeah,
that's my jam at the moment.
But I think you are dead on.
And I think if I was to sort of, I think
that by focusing on the nervous system
more so than anything, you can create
more of a shift in someone's state of
health than you can by pulling any other
lever if you could only pull one.
I mean, of course, that's
another rabbit hole completely.
But I mean, this is right
there, you're not wrong.
So if I was going to start somewhere,
right, if I was going to have a strategy,
the nervous system speaks to all other
systems of the body, right?
And you're really talking about the brain
and the nerve, that's
the whole one system.
But that nervous system is going to is
going to help reregulate the
communication, it's going to create
ecosystem balance, the
body is not a machine.
If it was a machine, that's why sometimes
I hate the idea of pills is like, give
them 20 milligrams of this and this will
be the exact outcome.
Yeah, that'll start that way.
And then it's immediately going to change
because an ecosystem adapts to the
stimulus immediately as
you begin to give it to it.
And so it's not a machine.
If I if it's a machine, I can give it an
exact input with an exact
output every single time.
But an ecosystem is always changing.
And so you have to create
what balance to the ecosystem.
And that's why the nervous system is so
critical to getting the kidneys back in
alignment with the liver to the gut, to
the endocrine system, right?
And so you can work the nervous system
bottom up through different therapies,
like, you know, foods
and stuff like that.
And, and, you know, sunlight, and, you
know, there's all kinds of treatments we
could talk about the flush is what I do
for the nervous system.
Right.
And then but then also you can do it top
down through community,
spirit, again, cognitive behavioral was
was one of the ones I did for me, all
these different things.
And then all of a sudden, that nervous
system really starts to calm down.
And then you can break through to the
specific area you want to get to, right,
whatever the specific system is.
But really, the gatekeeper to that system
is the nervous system, you see.
So there's like an
order of operations, Rob.
And this is where the light bulb went on
for me, brother, when I was
watching everyone work it.
And remember, I told you pattern
recognition, I'm like, Oh, wait a minute,
it's kind of like switches on, when the
power goes out, you turn the you turn the
main on first, and then you got to turn
the other switches on.
And then and then all of a sudden things
start to turn on, Rob, that was what I
was like, Okay, what's the order?
What's the magic combination?
And I was like, 1234.
This is the order.
And then I took all
those things that do that.
And I put it into a system.
And we call it the four f system,
which is absolutely perfect.
Because that's what I
want to discuss next.
Because quite honestly, all I want to do
is geek out with you
on the stuff all day.
However, you have a time limit, and we've
got to keep it pretty high level.
So you and I could do it forever.
I could talk about it forever.
Yeah, it's definitely two piece in a pod.
But yeah, your forex system.
Now, I think I can quote you as saying
that you're willing to take on and
correct me if I'm wrong, pretty much any
health condition out there.
And as you feel that this system you
built out the forex system, I suppose
covers enough of the the pathophysiology
for it to be effective at being able to
well treat the root of any
sort of quote unquote condition.
Now, of course, I don't expect to give
away you to give away all your IP,
although maybe a little bit although I
love to give it away
and then wouldn't hurt to become pay us
to organize it for him.
You know, yeah, there we go.
That's gonna be my next question.
But the order of operation stuff.
Yeah, but yeah, to start off with, can
you just run us through what this system
is, starting with the
flush and going from there?
Yeah, so my so what I realized is, again,
when I worked with all these different
doctors all over consulting sitting in on
their cases, you
know, I probably saw over
I don't know, 30,000 cases even before I
opened up my own system.
And then remember, before that, I already
know fundamental nutrition, I had already
worked supplementation or
done a lot of these things.
And I was looking at how doctors would
work different processes and where they
would start and then where would they end
and then what was the success rate.
And I was particularly disturbed by the
success rate of the modern doctor, which
is why you don't see
doctors posting success stories.
It's why I all I do is post success
stories, because I'm like, show me your
work, not your license.
Show me your outcomes.
Because the problem is the African West,
the average Western medicine doctor is
40% successful with a
probably a 20 to 70 60% relapse rate.
It's not great, right?
Your statistical probability of solving
something outside of just like a, an
infection with the antibiotic is if it's
beyond that, you know, if it's not acute,
it starts to go dramatically down.
Anything chronic starts to become people
don't realize when they go in the
doctor's office, like your, your
statistical probability of solving that's
lower than you'd probably be comfortable
with, you know, not that I get I don't
love great doctors, this always sounds
like I'm, I love my doctors and they have
great hearts and souls out there.
So please, I just
understand where I'm coming from.
So just the for F
process is as simple as this.
And in that there's
11 systems of the body.
And I learned that if you stimulate, it's
an order of stimulation.
So if I stimulate one set of systems, and
then I stimulate another, and then I
stimulate another, they'll get they'll
fall back into alignment.
And then all of a sudden outcomes start
happening, the body starts working with
me instead of against me.
And it really, it actually all kind of
comes down to the
immune system in reality.
And we'll kind of describe this in a
minute, which the immune system actually
doesn't isn't in one, it's not one
system, it's in every system, really.
And so I didn't know I didn't know this
when I started working this at the time.
But what I understood was like, let's
take a let's take a
condition any condition.
So let's start with Hashimoto's.
Well, Hashimoto's is a great one, right?
So Hashimoto's, again, if you are if you
follow my logic, any diagnosis that you
ever hear is never the root cause.
So don't assume it's the root cause start
there that helps you.
Because it's like, people get names
because they want to know the name to
what's the thing I need to attack.
And so they get a word like Hashimoto's.
And you're like, Oh, the root cause of
Hashimoto's is Hashimoto's.
Like, no, no, that's actually a
comorbidity that we've
identified that we can give a name to.
Okay, there has to be
something that predated that.
And that's where same thing, cardio
metabolic disorders like high blood
pressure, majority of high blood
pressures is metabolic syndrome, right?
One in one in two people in the United
States now have high blood pressure.
And majority of them have metabolic
syndrome, and only 30% of those people
are diagnosed with the root, but
everybody knows the secondary morbidity,
you see, this is why the when we talk
about root cause, that's what we mean.
Okay, right.
So I know that there's a level of
cellular inflammation that has somehow
imbalanced the immune system in one way
or another, that it's being triggered,
and then it stressed the thyroid out the
thyroid's response starts to be
overactivity under the duress, and then
the immune system turns and starts
looking at it to slow it down oftentimes,
starts throwing out TPO at it, and then
just slowing down for
the for the audience that big.
Yeah, sorry.
Yes, I know.
Yes.
So
thyroid peroxidase is an antibody that
essentially is is one of the ways your
body has an antibody to
about every organ in the body.
And it does that to help
clean up tissues as a governor.
So your immune system has a regulatory
purpose to every system of your body.
And it doesn't want to
step in unless it has to.
And and so that'll happen.
And so whether it's due to
heavy metal exposure, virus,
the, you know, something can get inside
of your body and then create inflammation
in the thyroid or wherever, and then the
immune system can go check it out.
And it's overactivity in that area can
lead to autoimmunity, right.
And there's many ways we could talk about
why that happens, that could be a whole
other podcast for another day.
Let's keep it really simple.
Okay, so once that happens, and it
happens in people, and then sits there
for five years, that's the other thing
you have to assume, it's like by the time
you recognize you have the problem, it's
already been going on for five years.
And that's pretty true of almost any
condition, diabetes, autoimmunity, you
name it, it's gone on for a long time.
So inside the body, once inflammation
rises, by definition, because of energy
conservation, where your body's using
energy, your nervous system starting to
get dysregulated, because it's telling
you something's wrong.
It's trying to, it's trying to
communicate with you, which is why you
don't feel, you feel unsettled, you can't
calm down, you're having intrusive
thoughts, whatever comes for you, sleep
imbalances or whatever.
And what happens is, as energy starts
going to cell danger response to the
immune system, especially the adaptive
immune system, T and B cell lymphocytes,
it's very expensive, right?
It's like, if I'm going to go run that
Porsche at 100 miles an hour, I'm going
to spend a lot of money in gas.
So you your ATP, then goes to protection,
and not to cellular function and energy
and muscle and, and your brain for
thinking it goes into your immune system.
So that's why almost every time Rob, the
number one symptom of all
time is fatigue and brain fog.
Right?
And everyone goes, Do you have brain fog?
You must have Lyme disease.
Do you have brain fog?
You must have IBS.
And it's like, no, no, no.
If you have brain fog, you have an
overact your immune system stealing your
energy that every single
time we don't know why.
That's what the exact
investigative process for.
But your immune system is overactive, and
it's dealing your energy
almost almost 90% of the time.
That's what it is.
I mean, you can have cancers and stuff,
but your immune
system is involved in that.
So either way, brain fog, we know of
upregulated immune response,
and we want to discover why.
Well, what I don't want to do, Rob is run
a million tests, and then try to guess
why the immune system is
overactive or whatever.
I don't want to do that because every
time that you do that,
you always miss something.
You always miss something in the process.
It's like growing a great garden.
Like, you need to follow a process, then
you might change some of the things you
do based on where you live in the United
States and whatever.
But if you skip parts in the process,
you're going to have a crappy garden.
Right?
So if it's like, Oh, I care about
tomatoes, and I'm not thinking about the
soil, and I'm not thinking about
everything else, I'm going to miss
something, and I'm not going to get a
great garden, or I'm not going to get a
great yard, and that's an ecosystem.
So I don't skip steps.
I stay in the deductive process.
I'll adjust based on their
program, but I follow the steps.
And when I do that, we did 7,000 cases,
Rob, and now we've
done over 70,000 people.
Even without labs, we have
over an 88% success rate.
With labs, we have a 95% success rate.
So labs do enhance your clinical
effectiveness, but they shouldn't dictate
everything that you do.
You're going to get lost in the process.
Okay?
So I start with coming in.
I know that the immune
system is overactive.
Cells are dividing fast.
Mitochondria are starting to die.
Inflammation's rising.
It doesn't matter.
Chronic conditions,
this is always happening.
So I need to open the lymphatic system.
I need to stimulate the endocrine system,
like the adrenals and the thyroid, to
help cellular activity.
This being the flush.
Yes, it's called the flush.
I have to open the system up, because
when the immune system's really active,
everything else slows down.
Metabolism tends to slow down.
Fat metabolism tends to slow down.
So shorten this up.
Stimulate, so every
cell jostles, basically.
It's cellular activity.
I'm trying to keep it very simple here.
That jostling has everything to do with
the endocrine system
and the nervous system.
Okay?
So you need to create cellular activity
in order for it to remove waste and
perform cellular functions.
So when your body gets inflamed,
remember, most cell functions have
reduced a little bit to
run the immune system.
So I've got to stimulate the endocrine,
the nervous system, the lymphatic system,
and basically the liver.
That's what I've got to do first.
I've got to open the body up and prepare
for me to get rid of
things out of the body.
Maybe there's blocks in your hormones,
blocks in cellular
metabolism of something.
All disease is metabolic.
So if I work the metabolic pathway and I
open it up and I make it pristine and I
get rid of all the traffic, the chance of
you getting better from whatever you have
is not like it's highly probable, right?
It's statistically predictable with the
numbers that we have now.
So I start there.
Then I moved to the immune
system, which is in the gut.
So I'm working the gut and the immune
system next phase two, and that gets rid
of most global cellular inflammation.
Then we have to help the body reset.
It's been on mTOR when you're inflamed,
you're always an mTOR,
which is sugar burning.
And now I have to get into this.
I got to get rid of damaged cells and I
got to get into the mitochondria of cells
to help fix the cell.
And get it moving into AMPK.
What people don't understand is based on
what your cell will tell
your immune system how to work.
If I'm in mTOR, I'm in
phase one immune function.
If I'm in AMPK, I'm in
phase two immune function.
And what all people need to know about
that is phase two immune function is how
when you were 16 years old, you could
fall off a building and drink poison and
feel great the next day.
Okay.
And now today as you're older, you'll
start noticing your blood sugars on
average creep up even if they're in
range, you start creeping up because
you're spending more time in an mTOR.
And the problem with that is now, if I
don't sleep eight hours,
I feel like I'm hungover.
Right.
And so I need to get your
body to spend more time in AMPK.
And what are ways to achieve that?
Well, keto, carnivore, fasting,
intermittent fasting, activity.
And then there's tools, autophagy, like
tools, peptides, all that stuff that
assist the body in
getting into autophagy.
Now the body can get rid of cells that
don't have enough mitochondria in them
that aren't working very well.
We got to get these senescent cells out.
It's a conversation for another day.
Once we start removing these, and this is
what I believe why, like let's say you
get an Epstein-Barr virus, somehow it
attacks the thyroid.
So TPO goes up, you have senescent cells
around your thyroid.
I want to get rid of those cells, you can
fast them out with autophagy.
So phase three is the cell.
I got to fix the cell to get well.
And then I need to then after that phase,
I got to balance out insulin
and leptin and all of that.
And then I move into the hormone phase
because the thing that keeps everything
kind of stable, really strong,
homeostasis, is your sex hormones.
So then I balance out the sex hormones is
the last part of it to keep
you really stable and vital.
And then make sure that your body
performs in the
environment that you need to be in.
Meaning that the function phase is what
do I need to get you functioning for?
Are you an athlete?
Are you someone who
needs to work a lot of hours?
Are you someone who's a mom that needs to
function for three kids?
Are you somebody who's an engineer who
needs their brain power all the time?
I want to optimize your diet, training,
supplements, even genetics, do genetics
testing to be optimal for that function
so that you can sustain that level of
stress without
breaking the system back down.
Because resiliency is more
important than asymptomatology.
You've got to get to resiliency in order
for people to thrive.
And so through that 4F process, they're
studying my diets right now at the
University of South Florida.
And I'm telling you guys right now, we
will see that the data that comes out of
this is going to rock the nutrition and
functional medicine world
because we have figured it out.
And it's not about one thing.
It's about a process that creates pattern
recognition that then holds your hand and
mentally coaches you through it in order
to achieve some level of freedom.
And that's what we do.
And now I'm just ready for
the world to find out, man.
Vince, you have created
an incredible framework.
And I can just attest to
this being an effective model.
Now, I know most coaches could likely
take a client through
what you've created.
And they can probably
get some level of results.
But to be honest, that's not necessarily
what makes a good health
coach a good health coach.
It's something you've
mentioned earlier again.
It's an order of operations things.
Really knowing when, I suppose you think
about it, which sort of
phase to plug in at which time.
Because you can work
someone through a process.
But if you don't have an intrinsic
understanding of maybe the biology, the
physiology, and how the process works,
then you don't know when to progress
somebody, when to progress somebody, when
to sort of take somebody,
yeah, backwards or forwards.
I'd love to get your
thoughts on this, though.
How do you progress somebody who is maybe
struggling and maybe not getting the
results that they are
after the first time round?
Do you sort of take them
straight back to the beginning?
Or is there a,
what are your thoughts there in terms of?
Yeah, so the reason that I have the four
step process embedded in there, Rob, is
about 16 variables that we check off.
And that's something that we train in the
back end of like, if somebody comes in,
first off, our job, if somebody comes in
and says they feel some type of way, our
first job is to believe them.
So we're going to go so hard at what you
believe to help you out.
And if we get all the way to the end of
the road, and we've checked off the 16
most likely reasons that are all involved
in the process, and if that doesn't work,
there's only a couple left over.
And so we know where to go.
See, that's why
deduction is so important.
If I skip steps, and I'm doing whatever,
or I do one treatment, if
it doesn't work, then what?
Right?
And that's where most
people find themselves.
Then what?
In our program, then we've got a couple
things left over where we go, okay, we
know that this is either deeper genetic,
and we're missing a
mutation that is throwing us off.
Right?
Or we didn't get, we did not go deep into
the cell enough, we need we need there's
more cells and the body needs more time.
There's only about two or three things
left over that we know that we need to go
in harder and spend more time with.
And so sometimes we'll real quick run
through the fore half just to open it
back up and make sure it's where
sometimes it helps to kind of like flush
the system back out for a second, make
sure you've checked your balances, but
you get through it really quickly.
And then we'll go to emphasize on the
area that we got stuck in the most.
And, and then we'll know how to go
deeper, like, because how do you know
where to really
double down an investment?
Otherwise, you're just throwing shit at
the wall hoping it sticks, excuse my
language, but it's kind of what happens.
And so that's one of the reasons I feel
so confidently like,
like, let me give an example,
Rob, breast implant illness.
What is breast implant illness, right?
We can argue a lot of things, but
fundamentally what it is, is an
autoimmune reaction to the implant.
Okay, fundamentally.
Now you can't have leakage, you can have
all these different
things, and that can be true.
Right.
But did you know, I've worked now 2000
cases of BII or supposed BII.
And did you know that less than 10% of
them was actually the implant?
It was the immune system reacting to all
kinds of other things
going on in the body.
Once we got rid of that stuff, the body
didn't react to the implant anymore.
Yeah, that was just the trigger.
The needle there broke the camel's back.
Right.
Think of the same logic here.
Hashimoto's, do we
just cut out the thyroid?
No.
Some people might.
I know, graves, you might.
I'm grave, I might argue that.
But you can actually get the
body back into homeostasis.
Now,
excluding leaks or a manufacturer error,
like all that other stuff, which is
probably accounts right now for about
three to 6% of what's going on out there.
I would say that one out of 10 women, the
implant because of the immune system,
it's the scar tissue.
See, it's the scar tissue.
If the implant because of the, you know
how people who they don't do well if they
put in fake earrings, or they get bad
when they have a scar,
it scars up real bad.
Chemical sensitivities.
Yeah.
Those people have a very
reactive immune system.
And one thing about the immune system,
when it's very
reactive, it hates scar tissue.
Hates it.
Right.
And so the problem with this is, is that
what is a capsule are scar tissue.
Okay.
It's the body trying to protect you from
what is already happening.
I also see that by the way, I believe
that's what's happening in most EBV Lyme
cases where if there is something left
over, the body starts to create, that's
what I think senescent cells start to do.
It encapsulates the virus.
And we'll talk about that another time,
which is really interesting to try to
stop it from dividing.
And those cells turn
into senescent cells.
If there is virus left over,
that's where I think we find it.
And so, again, that's another topic.
That's why part of my process, we will
use homeopathics with the
viral signature if we need to.
And then we start doing fast feasting
strategies to train the body what to look
for to go find it and get rid of it.
But coming back to the implant.
So what we end up finding is that most of
the time, if I calm the immune imbalance
down, it has no
problem with the scar tissue.
But those 10%,
it will, the scar tissue has gotten so
heavy, maybe something's growing on the
scar tissue, like mold, by
the way, which it can happen.
Okay.
And then, or that there's so much damage
to the scar tissue in some way that it
just keeps drawing the immune system in,
then they have to be removed.
But the crazy thing is, if you go in and
remove them and do a capsule, ectomy, or
really get rid of a lot of scar tissue to
let it reform another capsule, which is
another conversation for another day.
If you use a very aggressive immune
protocol up front to shunt the immune
response and prevent rejection, they can
have the implants again with no problem.
We've seen it.
Now I'm not saying go
back to the implant.
I'm not even, I'm not a moral judge of
like what you're doing with your body.
I'm very interested in how the immune
system learns and adapts
and what it creates over time.
Right?
So a lot of people think it's
the implant that's the problem.
It's not.
It's the scar tissue
oftentimes from the capsule.
Yeah, that's fascinating.
I'm gonna have to look into that.
That's something I've
definitely learned today.
I don't know that there was so much
hyperactivity between scar
tissue and any immune system.
So I'll definitely You'll find that.
And that's why a lot of times we'll have
people go in and cut out, like if they go
redo the surgery and kind of clean the
scar tissue and then put in an immune.
It could have been from a
bad knee injury or something.
Yeah.
And we'll have them clean it out.
And then we do, we shunt the immune
system so it doesn't
create more of it again.
It's more of a, it's a
safer healing process.
And then they don't have the same
reactions anymore,
which is super fascinating.
The point of why I'm sharing that, right,
is to come back to finding out that if
you don't work a deductive process, and
you just remove the implants, you might
feel a little bit better
for about three months.
But the overwhelming evidence today is
over 60, 70% of people who have an X
plant go back to feeling like crap,
because you didn't get to
the root of the problem.
Yeah, you just potentially took out the
trigger, but you didn't solve the you
didn't get the immune system into a
condition state where it actually needs
to get into so that the body can then
operate as it should do and get out of
that cell danger response and back into
normal cell physiology.
Yeah,
Vince gallbladder removal, gallbladder.
Yeah, there we go. 90% of gallbladder
removal ends in an autoimmune disease.
I'm sure it does in 10 years.
Yeah, because you're not dealing
downstream with any sulfation,
glucuronidation, any of the sort of
hepatic buildup that sorry, I'm going to
stop there before I can attend it.
I know you got it, bro.
You already you're
spitting fire right now.
Yeah, it's amazing.
Vince, honestly, I
could talk to you all day.
I know you have me come back, man.
We'll do another one.
If if your if your followers, listeners,
watchers, if they say, Hey, bring that
guy a crazy guy back,
we'd love to hear him.
I'll come back if they don't have fun in
your audience, because you
truly are one in a million.
Before before I let you go, would you
mind if we just ran through
a few rapid fire questions?
Rapid fire.
Let's go.
Absolutely.
Perfect.
Always good for reals.
Okay, maybe go slightly against what we
were just talking about.
But if you had one wish for one lab that
new clients arrived with you arrived
with, what would it be?
I'm gonna go genetics test.
Genetics test because
genetics are the future.
It can tell me a lot about why your
body's responding the way that it is.
And I can add nutrients that will help it
heal or resolve different issues.
And it can help me forego any problems
that I might run into that make you
unique during the process.
Yeah, no, I've still got to get my hands
on your new DNA test when it finally it
actually comes out the next month.
That's awesome.
Yeah, it's incredible.
Flush feed, fast or function, which is
your personal favorite phase of the
fourth process and why?
Fast phase, fast phase spiritually, the
Bible mentions a fasting 77 times,
whether you agree that the Bible is a
book of wisdom or a book of the living
God, it's I don't want
to argue that that's okay.
But what I can tell you is that don't you
think it's possible that if every
religion in the world agrees on one thing
that that one thing is probably truth.
And do you know what that one thing is?
Fasting?
No, 100%.
Perfect.
Most overrated supplement in the
industry, functional health in general.
Oh boy, the most overrated supplement in
the industry is without a doubt, in my
professional opinion, right?
And I'm gonna ruffle some some feathers
here, probably most likely is fish oil.
And the reason I say fish oil is most
fish oil is is not certified by a third
party, it's not made correctly, the oil
is rancidified, or it's not even rancid,
it's just dead, which
is an anisodyne level.
And everybody takes it thinking it's
going to be the thing to their future.
And they're not even taking one that has
enough EPA, DHEA in it.
And they're not taking a large enough
dose that is going to
create a medicinal outcome.
Over time, I think the
research over touts it.
And I think that people, you know, they
should be wise about where they're
getting the fish oil from.
Yeah, no, I couldn't agree.
I mean, when you start looking at those
totox values on a fish oil test, and the
oxidation in them is just nuts.
And then obviously, a lot of people
actually can't break down fish oils into
their active
components, what are they called?
Not SMPs?
Yeah, well, there's going from your
arachnidonic or oleic acids.
And the problem with fads too, is you
can't break that down.
That's the genetic.
So it's like that's part of the problem.
Once again, that's why I want that
genetics test, you know?
Yeah, no, completely.
Yeah, that's going to bite me.
I'll probably I'll send an email one in
the morning when I remember what I'm
trying to sort of jump to.
Anyway, okay, next one.
Say someone drops 100 million into your
lab tomorrow to run a
large scale clinical trial.
What are you spending that money on?
A large scale clinical trial.
I'm going to go stem cell H-BOT treatment
used in unison on almost any
disease, IV and injectable, um,
using in conjunction
with functional medicine.
The clinic I want to make that I'm going
to make soon with IV stem cell, that's
where I'm going to go with peptides
together, bringing you in for a week,
lots of oxygen, the oxygen
is a healer and it can't hurt.
That's why we need to just
blast people with oxygen, right?
And, and I believe that if we create
centers that allow people to get
corresponding treatments in unison in a
short period of time and get them back in
their life and then get them a coach to
work the rest of the process, I believe
that that is the future.
So my first clinic that's going to
approach this is, uh, is
coming very, very, very soon.
I often wonder if I just sent everybody a
male to my transportable H-BOT, which is
hyperbaric in case anybody knows, and you
did anything with H-BOT in conjunction.
What could the outcomes be?
And, but I believe stem cells and oxygen
exposed at the same time.
I believe very heavily that that is a
massive part of our future.
Yeah, no, no, I couldn't agree more.
I think there might be a few
contraindication to some viruses like BOT
and they learned something as
far as they know you are right.
Active.
You are correct.
Yeah, you are correct.
In fact, it happened to me.
I did stem cells recently had gotten
COVID and it put me
back in a full action.
It made me very sick.
Yeah.
And again, that just speaks to your, uh,
your, your understanding of the subject
matter and, and knowing the
order of operations again.
Anyway.
Okay.
Final one.
Um, and I'll, I'll
actually put that to Dr.
Dale Khan, who I'm sure
you are familiar with.
I'll be chatting to him in a few weeks
and I'd love to get his take on that.
But anyway, um, cold therapy
versus sawn for overall health.
It depends what stage.
Okay.
If you've been highly chronically
inflamed for a very, very long time, he
activates phase one immune function.
So we want it.
We want to stay away from it and use cold
shock proteins in the acute and halfway
through the subacute phase.
Once we've achieved a level of
inflammation, as it starts to come down,
the detox pathways are more open, right?
And then we can start applying contrast
where we apply them together, usually in
some form of a 10 minutes heat to two
minutes cold, and you can
run rounds of it if you want.
But I'm telling everybody, I'm begging
people to understand, I
know you don't want this,
but cold therapy is the primary way that
we should be attacking most problems that
are in the chronic phase in the
preventative phase, more heat, but in the
chronic phase, more cold and truthfully
putting them together kind of mitigates
the risk of the
downside of any one of them.
And I believe very heavily we use cold
therapy and undoubtedly is an
incredible, incredible tool.
Yeah, no, it's amazing.
And people just get again, it speaks to
what you were talking about earlier,
people getting hooked up on one modality.
So one is going to hear all your issues.
If you're going to chronically
overexpressed immune system and you blast
a lot of heat at it, all of a sudden,
you've got a histamine reaction and
people sort of get sort of lost in this
sort of, why do I feel worse?
That's why right now, when we're under
record heat, this is why immune problems
are going to get, as we get hotter,
immune problems are
going to get way worse.
So global warming is going to create more
medical issues than we realize.
And so that's why, and you know, that's
one of the biggest problems, right?
And so what I just want people to
realize, anything that you do to the
body, anything you do to the human body,
the most optimal amount of time that you
should probably do it in general as a
general rule is 12 weeks.
Why is it 12 weeks?
Because the human body has grown and
developed and shaped its
DNA around seasons, right?
So it's used to having to acclimate to a
new environment and having a pro response
to that environment and then going into a
maladaptive response.
Think about the cold.
When it starts getting cold, man, all
kinds of good things can happen.
But when you stay cold too long and then
illness and lack of sunlight, all these
different things start to
affect, you know, death rates.
And then we move into spring
and there's all these benefits.
But then with spring
comes allergy, right?
So like there's a pro and a maladaptive
response and it happens over
a 12-week timeframe, right?
Which is about the
optimal amount of time.
So if I'm just doing cold for 12 weeks
and I'm getting
really deep into it, fine.
But probably at the end of 12, maybe we
should throw in some heat.
Maybe we take a break.
Maybe we do contrast.
Maybe we only do heat.
That's why variation is
the key to optimal living.
And it's very hard for
us consistent, you know,
structured human beings to adopt
variation in a meaningful sort of way.
But once we begin to understand what I'm
saying, you start to see everything that
way and it starts to become a little
easier to apply in the mastery of it.
Vince, you're amazing.
And I'm not just saying that you, you
understand this better
than almost anyone I know.
So thank you for the time.
Come and fish you.
That means a lot, man.
And you guys support Rob.
He's an incredible guy.
He's lived it.
I know, I know his journey.
I've stood alongside of him.
If anybody is a pursuer of truth and it
is genuine, it is this man.
So continue to listen to him as he
explores truth over the
next months and years.
So thanks Rob.
Thank you for your time, Vince.
Awesome.
See you, brother.