Welcome to the VP Life Podcast, the show

where we bring you actionable health

advice from Mielein Mainz.

I'm your host Rob.

My guest today has been Spitzdik, a

functional health coach, founder of Vital

Coaching and the creator of the 4F

process, a systems-based framework

designed to restore health by fixing

physiology in the right order rather than

chasing symptoms or diagnoses.

Expect to learn why traditional

functional medicine often misses the mark

despite the best of intentions, how the

4F process, flush, feed, fasten function,

restores momentum across the gut, immune

and metabolic systems and why immune

metabolism, feedback driven coaching and

the order of operations matter more than

protocols or lab tests alone.

Now, on to the

conversation with Vince Pitstick.

Good morning Vince and thank you for

joining us on the podcast today.

This has been a few months in the making

and I know you're busy

so I appreciate the time.

I first got to know you when we worked

together that was a few years back and

things have obviously changed

and evolved a lot since then.

Stuff I'd like to chat

to you about in a bit.

First though, introductions.

You've got quite the

personal journey there.

Some of it I know, some of it I don't.

And we have time.

So I'd love it if you could just start

there with who you are, your background

and how you ended up where you are.

Yeah, I think it really helps listeners

and watchers to pre-qualify myself.

I'm not coming in with

an MD or as a scientist.

I'm coming in myself as a person who was

really really sick as a young child that

then through his journey really developed

the skills, went and got education and

then became a trainer of doctors and

medical systems all over the country.

And that's how I got this really unique

view of functional medicine, Western

medicine, the challenges that exist.

And so for my story, starts all the way

back when I was seven years old, grew up

on the farm and I got chemical exposure

that led to like immune deficiencies that

created, I got strep,

massive strep three times in a row.

And it led to a condition called pandas.

Now understand that this is now, I'm

dating myself here a little Rob, but this

was over boy now 34 years ago.

So and this is one of the things I'm

always challenged by is like back then we

had no idea about pandas.

Yeah, of any of this stuff, right?

In fact, just what was emerging at the

time was identifying symptoms that also

had their own diagnoses, right?

So most of the time.

So what happened to me is I start getting

intrusive thoughts, delusions, obsessive

compulsive pattern behaviors, ticks, you

know, all these different things, right?

At the time, it was thought that all of

this stuff was more behavioral.

So it was a lot of personal

blaming and shaming, right?

Because people just didn't understand,

which is very indicative of humans with

anything they don't understand.

When we know PTSD today, we know that

there's, you know, you know, get brain

injuries today, when we look at, you

know, we look, we know that there's

depression, anxiety, we know these things

exist on a clinical level.

They really didn't then.

And it was all classified behavioral

before we understood what it was.

And I always remember that today with

what people are dealing with how many

people today are dealing with things that

will know what they are in 30 years from

now, and they don't

have 30 years to wait,

which is why I do the

work that I do, right?

So, so now I'm going through, man, this

world of these different doctors, nobody

knows what to do with me.

I'm kind of like a Western medical

medicine dropout at this point,

they start to just kind of believe that

I'm insane and start sending me to

different strange

psychiatrists and things like that.

It's when physical symptoms started to

manifest and gut issues and night terrors

and anxiety, all that stuff.

That finally they're like, "Oh, we think

this is a condition we're now

realizing exists called OCD,

right?

Obsessive Compulsive Disorder."

Now true, okay, true, that

was one of my symptoms, right?

And carries its own diagnosis.

However, that's where we get confused

sometimes in Western medicine where we're

like, "Aha, we have a diagnosis.

Everything flows from that.

So, we'll just work backwards from the

diagnosis or work forwards from the

diagnosis and try a treatment, throw some

stuff in there, and that's when they

wanted to throw medication at me."

Now, what we know about psychiatric

medication 34 years ago is

it didn't work out too well.

A lot, yeah.

Not too many of those kids

ended up actually healthy.

One, and two, many got injured.

We don't talk enough about that.

I saw those kids in those clinics.

I mean, I'll be sitting in the rooms with

my mom and I'd be looking around at nine

years old or 10 or 11 and I'm like

looking at these kids and I'm like, "I

don't know where I am.

I don't know what I'm dealing with, but I

definitely don't know where they are and

I don't think they do either."

You know, drooling and

just, it would put you out.

Like kids would be nodding out like

they're on methadone or something and it

was just like, "I'm like, nah.

I'm going to stick with what I got."

And my mom, that was one of the genius

things about my mom's intuition, although

she got other things wrong

and this one she got right.

And so we started the journey of mental

health through therapy, which I think was

a really, really good choice.

Cognitive behavioral therapy, which I'm a

big fan of still today with

almost any issue you have.

And then we started exploring the world

of natural medicine.

And it really was until I started putting

together as I got a little bit older, one

of the benefits of being a male, when you

get these conditions, is that

testosterone tends to

calm them down, tends to.

Where in girls, unfortunately, estrogen

tends to exacerbate these issues.

And so it kind of helped me a little bit

as I start getting into 14, 15.

In this time, right about

this time, 13 through 15,

I found, I went to enough nutrition over

here, detox doctor over here,

hormone optimization

here, and therapy over here.

And I kind of just stuck

this rickety system together.

And through that process, I got well.

And it wasn't a magic pill.

It wasn't just one thing.

It was this synergistic process that I

was able to put together.

And fortunately, granted, the OCD stuck

with me for a while, then ended up

turning into, I found also at the time

substances that were not the best idea,

but they worked at the time,

street drugs, that also

assisted me in getting better.

However, those drugs

then became a problem later.

What's the solution one day becomes a

problem later, which is also what I

believe a lot about modern psychiatry now

is that a lot of the medications we use

as a temporary solution can become a

problem for many people later, not that

there can't be useful tools.

But we do need a multi-dimensional,

multifaceted approach to healing on a

functional root cause level, and really

deliberate people from the things that

are holding them back.

And that just kind of spurred my journey

in traveling all over learning about

herbology, learning about genetics,

learning about everything that I could,

some in school, some outside of it, some

studying under certain doctors.

I became obsessed with understanding how

we put Humpty Dumpty back together again.

And that was the rest of my journey that

kind of then just in a short note, led me

to developing my own health program near

Chicago, then getting poached by a global

medical company called Medigenics.

I trained under Dr.

Jeffrey Bland and a lot of people at Gig

Harbor Washington, the research facility,

and then also at San

Clemente, California.

And I learned about this whole world of

functional medicine.

And I realized that there's this whole

other world of science that exists that

nobody was paying attention to.

And I was exposed to it.

And I go, "Oh my gosh, you put everything

I already know with this."

It's like, I think

anybody could be unstoppable.

And then that's when I went out for

Medigenics and became a trainer, a

functional medicine consultant, building

practices, training new protocols,

helping them build systems in their

practices to be able to scale cash or

insurance based services.

And I saw how every single doctor tried

to treat in their own way.

And probably my strongest trait is I'm a

pattern, I recognize patterns.

I'm not the smartest, like, you know,

rocket scientist, I couldn't read a book

and study and test, like that's not me.

But I noticed patterns.

And I noticed how different doctors all

tried to solve the same pattern using a

one dimensional process, whether it's one

treatment or one pill.

It's like, it's not a coincidence, Rob,

that when you go to a chiropractor, every

treatment involves an adjustment.

It's not a coincidence.

If you go to a hormone doctor, every

treatment's going to involve a hormone.

And the problem with that specialization

is that most people have more problems in

all the other systems of the body that

need restoration, they need balance, the

ecosystem needs to be restored.

And one poking and prodding of the system

is not going to do that.

And so you, people need to become more

generalist in order

to create real freedom.

And no one's really willing to do that.

So I left after being a trainer for five

years became one of

the top in the country.

And I opened up my own practice called

Nutrition Dynamic at the time, which is

now Vital Coaching, that I took all the

best practices, organized them in a way

that could be done online and see anybody

anywhere in the world.

And then there you have today, we're one

of the largest in the country that that

does this kind of work functional

medicine led by a coach

with a medical team behind it.

So in concierge medicine thing, and we're

trying to grow become the Amazon of

health, because we want to reach everyone

who's suffering anywhere in the world.

Yeah, that's an amazing story.

And I sort of loved the fact that you

pointed to the sort of the psychological

side of it to begin with, I think, in

mainstream medicine, if you're labeled

with a psychological psychiatric

condition, it stops there.

And no one very few practitioners realize

that most of the time, a psychiatric

issue has a physiological

or biological underpinning.

And yeah, of course, you need to deal

with the mental health component of it.

But the mind is a manifestation of what's

going wrong in the

body for the most part.

And yeah, it's it's in psychiatry,

there's this idea that the the body stops

here, right below the neck.

That's it.

Well, that's the whole problem with

modern medicine is that you've got a

system that is based on, you know, the

basically 11 systems of the body, right.

And it's like, I'm going to be the master

of one system, and then all of you can

master your own systems.

And then the way that we're all going to

play nice is I'll stay in my lane, you

stay in your lane, and

we'll refer to each other.

It's all going to work out great.

It's all going to be wonderful.

Everyone's going to make money, no one's

going to get upset at each other for

stepping on each other's toes.

And it seems like

it's this perfect system.

And unfortunately,

once somebody has an

issue past acute phase,

right, so three to six months, in in by

definition, a chronic condition really

has multiple systems that are now

involved, that are

impaired in different percentages.

And so to solve that in a real meaningful

way, we need we would either in the

system that we have in Western medicine,

the endocrinologist would need to talk to

the GI doctor would need

to talk to the cardiologist.

And they have that at Cleveland Clinic,

you know, but we don't do that in the

United States, right.

And so everyone falls through the cracks,

because nobody's talking in that way.

And I don't ever think you're going to

change the Western medical

system to fit that system.

Therefore, there has

to be something else.

And what is that something else?

And everyone that you probably will talk

to is coming up with their own version of

like, what is something else?

You know, and that's what I've done for

myself, I say, well, I can't count on

anyone else to be

synergistic and talk to each other.

So let's create our own place and then

also connect with other practitioners who

are like minded, bring

those things together.

One of our biggest refers are

psychologists, you know, and therapists,

because they begin to realize, hey, these

people, if they get consistent with their

exercise, if they just clean up their

diet a little bit, maybe they run a

little bit of a detox process or

something of the sort, something small

even, while they're doing the therapy,

leads to incredible emotional and

physiologic outcomes,

right, psychological.

And that's what I keep trying to say, if

I had not done so when, for example, with

pandas, one of the things is your, it's

your immune system, it gets overactive.

And when it does, all your energy is

going into sympathetic dominance, fight

or flight, upregulated nervous system.

Do you know how hard it is to think

clearly when you have a dysregulated

nervous system because it's trying to

tell you something's wrong in the body?

Like, good luck, like emotionally trying

to work through your problems when your

body in the inside is being like, you

know, and it's like, you

can soothe that physically.

And then you can also soothe it

psychologically, emotionally, right?

So this top down, bottom up approach

should always be best

practice to achieve wellness.

I can tell you on the business side, the

reason that this fails as someone who

tried to set these systems

up, it costs more money upfront.

It's not as simple.

It then requires you can't just have one

machine or one treatment, and then scale

that thing and improve

profitability like that.

You actually have to sit on it, this

imperfect system that makes a little less

money upfront, but starts getting

outcomes down the road that will start

attracting more people.

So doctors would have to be patient.

And they'd have to get their practice

managers involved and their, and the

people and now you're

going against the status quo.

And people are going to be frustrated

with you because you're

trying to figure it out.

There's this huge desert that you've got

to get through to get to the other side

as a generalist in order to achieve a

practice that is actually

multidimensional in that way.

And most doctors, most practitioners,

they're too afraid of peer pressure.

They're afraid of like insurance not

covering it and they

don't want to go cash pay.

And so the standard of care, insurance

companies, guys in suits who have no

clinical background are telling you how

to treat your patients are also rewarding

you by the way, by the number of pills

you prescribe, which is super messed up.

It's a whole other story.

But like, so you're trying to rip off the

teat of that, move into something

uncomfortable and as someone who coached

them through these things.

If you don't have a coach, if you're

trying to just do this because you feel

inspired and you know

it's the truth, good luck.

No one's making it.

You're going to go back to

doing what you always did.

You're going to check in

and you're going to check out.

You're going to go home and you're going

to love your family.

You're going to take them on vacations

and you're just going

to let it be what it is.

And that's why people don't get better.

Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more.

And I think it just speaks to this sort

of whole, well, not only the

dysfunctional sort of mainstream model

that we've sort of just discussed, well,

you've just discussed in great detail,

but also the functional medicine model.

Now, I suppose,

and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think

this whole functional medicine paradigm

really started maybe in the 60s with

Linus Pauling, who's as I'm sure you

know, is a biochemist.

He started this this idea of

orthomolecular medicine, which is where I

feel that functional

medicine has its roots.

This idea of course, that by utilizing

nutritional, nutritional aid, nutritional

supplements, you can tweak an

individual's biochemistry and hope to

improve a lot of

these chronic conditions.

Now, of course, that is

reductionist in of itself.

And obviously, Dr.

Pauling was just a biochemist.

So he didn't have the full view as you've

just alluded to, since in the field has

obviously evolved and progressed as has

functional medicine.

And people are now going into these sort

of functional medicine clinics and these

settings and these programs and to some

extent, and they are, I suppose, broadly

speaking, making some level of progress.

But as you've alluded to previously, a

lot of them are still struggling and

still falling through the cracks, even

though we sort of moved from this

traditional paradigm of siloed medicine,

where you only ever see one doctor who

operates in with it with through one lens

and through and in one specialty to this

more functional paradigm, but

people are still struggling.

Now, can we shout out Linus Pauling, the

basically the godfather of vitamin C.

Yes, right.

You know, I mean, starting from just one

vitamin, and then that's where what's

interesting about my lineage on this.

Yeah, his understudy was Dr.

Jeffrey Bland.

Yes.

And Dr.

Jeffrey Bland, I had the like, again, I

was this young, I had no idea who I got

to spend time with, like, he's the

Einstein, in my opinion of our time, Dr.

And I, one of the things that I found so

interesting is that when I was young,

learning nutrition, learning all these

things, and I was in the bodybuilding at

this time, here I show up, you know, and,

you know, just huge over

consuming mTOR, you know, whatever.

And I walk in into these functional

rooms, and I get to meet Dr.

Bland and everybody.

And I, I had no idea

what I was about to uncover.

Anyways, I still, I still digress and

laugh at the journey a little bit, you

know, where, you know, we all learn new

things, you know, that's why you might

start like everything's carnivore.

And then you go, Oh, my god, there's this

whole world of this, that and the other,

you know, or whatever your thing is, the

journey is going to take you to very

unconventional places.

I guess that's I'm just laughing at the

road to getting here, you know.

Anyway, of course, what they say all

roads ultimately leads to

Rome in one way, shape or form.

So yeah, definitely.

Yeah, no, I sort of, I

briefly remember reading up that Dr.

Bland was an understudy of Dr.

Paul Pauling.

Yeah, I should have linked that up in a

bit more detail given who I'm talking to.

Anyway, but I suppose fundamentally, and

you've, you've covered this to an extent,

but and we can keep a brief, of course.

But why has functional

medicine failed, do you think?

I mean, it's more, you've, as I said,

you've already spoken about this briefly,

but functional medicine is still missing

the boat in so many ways.

And then I'd love to get

into your fore process.

Now, I mean, again, I've got my thoughts.

It's a sort of

fragmented sort of organ versus

sort of whole systems approach.

And there's very little way in terms of

systemic infrastructure in functional

medicine that has been established.

Again, everybody has their sort of their

MO, their way they approach it.

Instead of being going to a

gastroenterologist, you're now going to

functional medicine specialist to only

focus on this, excuse me, only focuses on

the gut, or only focusing on hormones.

And do you sort of broadly speaking, sort

of find that to be true?

Or do you find that or do you think there

are other reasons why the system fails?

So in the last decade,

you know, functional medicine, year over

year grows, the industry

grows about 26%, which is large, that's a

huge, that's a huge shift.

Same thing, online fitness, you know, I

don't want to bring this up to, we've

seen massive industrial growth.

I mean, people are spending more on

weight loss than ever

before in human history.

Right.

And it seems like the more money that we

throw at the problem,

medicine is at all time high, right?

Like, you know, as part of GDP, right?

More drugs than ever,

more doctors than ever.

And yet we're sicker than ever.

Right?

So there, there seems to be this, this

relationship that we're missing the point

in that, and this is where I'll get to

this is that clearly fitness hasn't

figured it out and put

a dent into it, right?

Clearly functional medicine hasn't to

this point been able to

put much of a debt in it.

And clearly, Western medicine hasn't been

able to stop it either,

for all their benefits.

They all have benefits, all three of

them, but in and of themselves have been

relatively powerless to shift the

morbidity curve in the United States.

Right.

And globally, I mean, it's happening all

over once they adopt the

Western medicine way of life.

And so, or Western way of life.

So let me give you my perspective, two

things on the problem and why.

One is functional medicine still thinks

like Western medicine.

They want to be like Western medicine.

And then therefore,

oftentimes, you've got two camps.

You've got the really, really holistic

practitioner, who's got their one off

thing that they do on everybody.

It's the same, that's the

kind of myopic thought process.

That's the issue.

It's like, it's all just PEMF, or it's

all just H-Bot, or it's all just, you

know, whatever the thing is, you know,

and when they get off on their soapbox,

and they don't work with anybody else.

And so they kind of relegate themselves

to a smaller population of people to

proportionately impact

that then doesn't spread.

And then you got the other group who

looks for adoption, they look to get

certifications and licensing and

functional medicine.

Most of my opinion, when you look at most

of the certifications or licensing and

testing, it's done like Western medicine.

That's why like, if you look at the

naturopath, for example, when they first

started, when it first started coming up,

naturopaths looked like the great hope.

It really did.

Early on, they had their own schools and

all this other stuff, and it

looked like the great hope.

And today, I'm sorry, it's failed

everybody, and it's not

any better for most of them.

And the reason why is they still think

Western medicine, and then they just

apply the functional on the back end.

How you look at solving problems decides

whether your root cause or not, you know,

you can't just run 2700 tests, throw

everything together as a kind of random

treatment, and then see them again in

three to six months,

like, it's not going to work.

Okay, it's just a green pharmacy.

It's not, it's not going to work.

It doesn't work.

Right?

We see that.

Now, I'm glad that other options exist.

Don't get me wrong.

If you're a functional medicine

practitioner, and I'm

not here to poo poo.

I just I don't I still think you're

thinking like a Western alipath.

Right?

It's like, what's the symptom?

And then what pill do I give for that?

You're just given a

supplement rather than a drug.

And it's like, no, that's not it.

It's not enough.

Right?

So the other component of it is not just

the way that we solve problems,

which I take a very inductive or

deductive approach versus an inductive

approach, we've talked

about the differences there.

And there's a book called

the problem of induction.

And if you can bore through it, it will

open your mind to how solving things

through the inductive

method is actually incorrect.

And whenever any industry applies it,

you're doomed to fail.

Because your way of solving problems is

in contradiction to how

the body actually heals.

And so very much so deductive working

through a systematic process towards the

solution is always it.

That's why if somebody comes, let me give

an example that people can understand.

If somebody comes into me, and they have

a blood pressure issue, okay, right,

let's say they have blood pressure issue.

I know that that's going to be a deeper

cardiovascular typically, I mean, 5% of

kidney issues are not vascular nature and

have other other reasons, I understand

that, but for the vast majority,

what I'm going to do is I'm going to work

through a process towards helping the

kidneys, I'm not just going to start with

the kidneys, meaning that like, I'm not

just going to give you a blood pressure

pill and see in three

to six months, right?

Or I'm not going to give you a bunch of

supplements for your blood pressure and

see in three to six months and tell you

to walk and, you know, drink water, like,

like, okay, I get that.

What I'm going to do is I know I'm going

to start with opening lymphatics liver,

getting fluids off the top of the body,

reducing inflammation, then I'm going to

move to the gut where most cellular

inflammation comes from to start to give

the kidneys more of a break, then I'm

going to do some intermittent fasting,

fast feasting, because I can

clean the kidneys out easier.

And then by the time I even got to the

kidneys, if I wanted to put a blood

pressure medication in, I wouldn't need

to, they'd already be solved.

The trickle down effect is what you want

for the solution to the diagnosis.

Not like everything is like diagnosis and

work backwards, right?

You want to have a process forwards and

that can be hard for people to understand

if they've been medically trained for a

very, very, very long time.

And I fully respect that and I understand

that and I understand if people disagree

with me, but if it's bad enough, you

could certainly put a blood pressure

medication in, but you're still going to

go work the process forward.

Okay.

So one is how we solve problems and then

two is how we treat, like, what is the

process of walking people through?

How do we actually solve problems?

And so what do I mean by that is what is

the treatment plan like?

And so for me, I know for a fact that if

someone doesn't have a relationship

during their care, the number one element

to healing is the human element.

That is why right next to penicillin, the

number one greatest invention in human

history for healing is the nurse because

every treatment in the world

is delivered by a nurse today.

And without that relationship, right, to

the doctor and to the nurse,

healing is almost impossible.

There's no trust.

Your nervous system's

not going to calm down.

You're out there on your own.

Your body's going to stay in something

called cell danger response.

And so the reality is your body will

resist any kind of treatment because it's

this self-sustaining vehicle.

And without you having the human element

of healing, I don't think it exists.

And so for me, that's why I believe so

heavily that if you don't have a coach

that's staying in contact or a process

where you're having consistent contact or

community with your

patients or your clients,

your success rate goes through the toilet

or goes down the toilet.

There has to be an element of lifestyle

change activated by the patient or the

client while you're providing a therapy

and walking them through the journey of

healing that includes mind,

body and dare I even say spirit

or 100%.

I mean, we've had related relationship.

We've had discussions about God and the

spiritual matters as well.

And I mean, at this point in time, all I

want to do is talk about cell danger

response because yeah,

that's my jam at the moment.

But I think you are dead on.

And I think if I was to sort of, I think

that by focusing on the nervous system

more so than anything, you can create

more of a shift in someone's state of

health than you can by pulling any other

lever if you could only pull one.

I mean, of course, that's

another rabbit hole completely.

But I mean, this is right

there, you're not wrong.

So if I was going to start somewhere,

right, if I was going to have a strategy,

the nervous system speaks to all other

systems of the body, right?

And you're really talking about the brain

and the nerve, that's

the whole one system.

But that nervous system is going to is

going to help reregulate the

communication, it's going to create

ecosystem balance, the

body is not a machine.

If it was a machine, that's why sometimes

I hate the idea of pills is like, give

them 20 milligrams of this and this will

be the exact outcome.

Yeah, that'll start that way.

And then it's immediately going to change

because an ecosystem adapts to the

stimulus immediately as

you begin to give it to it.

And so it's not a machine.

If I if it's a machine, I can give it an

exact input with an exact

output every single time.

But an ecosystem is always changing.

And so you have to create

what balance to the ecosystem.

And that's why the nervous system is so

critical to getting the kidneys back in

alignment with the liver to the gut, to

the endocrine system, right?

And so you can work the nervous system

bottom up through different therapies,

like, you know, foods

and stuff like that.

And, and, you know, sunlight, and, you

know, there's all kinds of treatments we

could talk about the flush is what I do

for the nervous system.

Right.

And then but then also you can do it top

down through community,

spirit, again, cognitive behavioral was

was one of the ones I did for me, all

these different things.

And then all of a sudden, that nervous

system really starts to calm down.

And then you can break through to the

specific area you want to get to, right,

whatever the specific system is.

But really, the gatekeeper to that system

is the nervous system, you see.

So there's like an

order of operations, Rob.

And this is where the light bulb went on

for me, brother, when I was

watching everyone work it.

And remember, I told you pattern

recognition, I'm like, Oh, wait a minute,

it's kind of like switches on, when the

power goes out, you turn the you turn the

main on first, and then you got to turn

the other switches on.

And then and then all of a sudden things

start to turn on, Rob, that was what I

was like, Okay, what's the order?

What's the magic combination?

And I was like, 1234.

This is the order.

And then I took all

those things that do that.

And I put it into a system.

And we call it the four f system,

which is absolutely perfect.

Because that's what I

want to discuss next.

Because quite honestly, all I want to do

is geek out with you

on the stuff all day.

However, you have a time limit, and we've

got to keep it pretty high level.

So you and I could do it forever.

I could talk about it forever.

Yeah, it's definitely two piece in a pod.

But yeah, your forex system.

Now, I think I can quote you as saying

that you're willing to take on and

correct me if I'm wrong, pretty much any

health condition out there.

And as you feel that this system you

built out the forex system, I suppose

covers enough of the the pathophysiology

for it to be effective at being able to

well treat the root of any

sort of quote unquote condition.

Now, of course, I don't expect to give

away you to give away all your IP,

although maybe a little bit although I

love to give it away

and then wouldn't hurt to become pay us

to organize it for him.

You know, yeah, there we go.

That's gonna be my next question.

But the order of operation stuff.

Yeah, but yeah, to start off with, can

you just run us through what this system

is, starting with the

flush and going from there?

Yeah, so my so what I realized is, again,

when I worked with all these different

doctors all over consulting sitting in on

their cases, you

know, I probably saw over

I don't know, 30,000 cases even before I

opened up my own system.

And then remember, before that, I already

know fundamental nutrition, I had already

worked supplementation or

done a lot of these things.

And I was looking at how doctors would

work different processes and where they

would start and then where would they end

and then what was the success rate.

And I was particularly disturbed by the

success rate of the modern doctor, which

is why you don't see

doctors posting success stories.

It's why I all I do is post success

stories, because I'm like, show me your

work, not your license.

Show me your outcomes.

Because the problem is the African West,

the average Western medicine doctor is

40% successful with a

probably a 20 to 70 60% relapse rate.

It's not great, right?

Your statistical probability of solving

something outside of just like a, an

infection with the antibiotic is if it's

beyond that, you know, if it's not acute,

it starts to go dramatically down.

Anything chronic starts to become people

don't realize when they go in the

doctor's office, like your, your

statistical probability of solving that's

lower than you'd probably be comfortable

with, you know, not that I get I don't

love great doctors, this always sounds

like I'm, I love my doctors and they have

great hearts and souls out there.

So please, I just

understand where I'm coming from.

So just the for F

process is as simple as this.

And in that there's

11 systems of the body.

And I learned that if you stimulate, it's

an order of stimulation.

So if I stimulate one set of systems, and

then I stimulate another, and then I

stimulate another, they'll get they'll

fall back into alignment.

And then all of a sudden outcomes start

happening, the body starts working with

me instead of against me.

And it really, it actually all kind of

comes down to the

immune system in reality.

And we'll kind of describe this in a

minute, which the immune system actually

doesn't isn't in one, it's not one

system, it's in every system, really.

And so I didn't know I didn't know this

when I started working this at the time.

But what I understood was like, let's

take a let's take a

condition any condition.

So let's start with Hashimoto's.

Well, Hashimoto's is a great one, right?

So Hashimoto's, again, if you are if you

follow my logic, any diagnosis that you

ever hear is never the root cause.

So don't assume it's the root cause start

there that helps you.

Because it's like, people get names

because they want to know the name to

what's the thing I need to attack.

And so they get a word like Hashimoto's.

And you're like, Oh, the root cause of

Hashimoto's is Hashimoto's.

Like, no, no, that's actually a

comorbidity that we've

identified that we can give a name to.

Okay, there has to be

something that predated that.

And that's where same thing, cardio

metabolic disorders like high blood

pressure, majority of high blood

pressures is metabolic syndrome, right?

One in one in two people in the United

States now have high blood pressure.

And majority of them have metabolic

syndrome, and only 30% of those people

are diagnosed with the root, but

everybody knows the secondary morbidity,

you see, this is why the when we talk

about root cause, that's what we mean.

Okay, right.

So I know that there's a level of

cellular inflammation that has somehow

imbalanced the immune system in one way

or another, that it's being triggered,

and then it stressed the thyroid out the

thyroid's response starts to be

overactivity under the duress, and then

the immune system turns and starts

looking at it to slow it down oftentimes,

starts throwing out TPO at it, and then

just slowing down for

the for the audience that big.

Yeah, sorry.

Yes, I know.

Yes.

So

thyroid peroxidase is an antibody that

essentially is is one of the ways your

body has an antibody to

about every organ in the body.

And it does that to help

clean up tissues as a governor.

So your immune system has a regulatory

purpose to every system of your body.

And it doesn't want to

step in unless it has to.

And and so that'll happen.

And so whether it's due to

heavy metal exposure, virus,

the, you know, something can get inside

of your body and then create inflammation

in the thyroid or wherever, and then the

immune system can go check it out.

And it's overactivity in that area can

lead to autoimmunity, right.

And there's many ways we could talk about

why that happens, that could be a whole

other podcast for another day.

Let's keep it really simple.

Okay, so once that happens, and it

happens in people, and then sits there

for five years, that's the other thing

you have to assume, it's like by the time

you recognize you have the problem, it's

already been going on for five years.

And that's pretty true of almost any

condition, diabetes, autoimmunity, you

name it, it's gone on for a long time.

So inside the body, once inflammation

rises, by definition, because of energy

conservation, where your body's using

energy, your nervous system starting to

get dysregulated, because it's telling

you something's wrong.

It's trying to, it's trying to

communicate with you, which is why you

don't feel, you feel unsettled, you can't

calm down, you're having intrusive

thoughts, whatever comes for you, sleep

imbalances or whatever.

And what happens is, as energy starts

going to cell danger response to the

immune system, especially the adaptive

immune system, T and B cell lymphocytes,

it's very expensive, right?

It's like, if I'm going to go run that

Porsche at 100 miles an hour, I'm going

to spend a lot of money in gas.

So you your ATP, then goes to protection,

and not to cellular function and energy

and muscle and, and your brain for

thinking it goes into your immune system.

So that's why almost every time Rob, the

number one symptom of all

time is fatigue and brain fog.

Right?

And everyone goes, Do you have brain fog?

You must have Lyme disease.

Do you have brain fog?

You must have IBS.

And it's like, no, no, no.

If you have brain fog, you have an

overact your immune system stealing your

energy that every single

time we don't know why.

That's what the exact

investigative process for.

But your immune system is overactive, and

it's dealing your energy

almost almost 90% of the time.

That's what it is.

I mean, you can have cancers and stuff,

but your immune

system is involved in that.

So either way, brain fog, we know of

upregulated immune response,

and we want to discover why.

Well, what I don't want to do, Rob is run

a million tests, and then try to guess

why the immune system is

overactive or whatever.

I don't want to do that because every

time that you do that,

you always miss something.

You always miss something in the process.

It's like growing a great garden.

Like, you need to follow a process, then

you might change some of the things you

do based on where you live in the United

States and whatever.

But if you skip parts in the process,

you're going to have a crappy garden.

Right?

So if it's like, Oh, I care about

tomatoes, and I'm not thinking about the

soil, and I'm not thinking about

everything else, I'm going to miss

something, and I'm not going to get a

great garden, or I'm not going to get a

great yard, and that's an ecosystem.

So I don't skip steps.

I stay in the deductive process.

I'll adjust based on their

program, but I follow the steps.

And when I do that, we did 7,000 cases,

Rob, and now we've

done over 70,000 people.

Even without labs, we have

over an 88% success rate.

With labs, we have a 95% success rate.

So labs do enhance your clinical

effectiveness, but they shouldn't dictate

everything that you do.

You're going to get lost in the process.

Okay?

So I start with coming in.

I know that the immune

system is overactive.

Cells are dividing fast.

Mitochondria are starting to die.

Inflammation's rising.

It doesn't matter.

Chronic conditions,

this is always happening.

So I need to open the lymphatic system.

I need to stimulate the endocrine system,

like the adrenals and the thyroid, to

help cellular activity.

This being the flush.

Yes, it's called the flush.

I have to open the system up, because

when the immune system's really active,

everything else slows down.

Metabolism tends to slow down.

Fat metabolism tends to slow down.

So shorten this up.

Stimulate, so every

cell jostles, basically.

It's cellular activity.

I'm trying to keep it very simple here.

That jostling has everything to do with

the endocrine system

and the nervous system.

Okay?

So you need to create cellular activity

in order for it to remove waste and

perform cellular functions.

So when your body gets inflamed,

remember, most cell functions have

reduced a little bit to

run the immune system.

So I've got to stimulate the endocrine,

the nervous system, the lymphatic system,

and basically the liver.

That's what I've got to do first.

I've got to open the body up and prepare

for me to get rid of

things out of the body.

Maybe there's blocks in your hormones,

blocks in cellular

metabolism of something.

All disease is metabolic.

So if I work the metabolic pathway and I

open it up and I make it pristine and I

get rid of all the traffic, the chance of

you getting better from whatever you have

is not like it's highly probable, right?

It's statistically predictable with the

numbers that we have now.

So I start there.

Then I moved to the immune

system, which is in the gut.

So I'm working the gut and the immune

system next phase two, and that gets rid

of most global cellular inflammation.

Then we have to help the body reset.

It's been on mTOR when you're inflamed,

you're always an mTOR,

which is sugar burning.

And now I have to get into this.

I got to get rid of damaged cells and I

got to get into the mitochondria of cells

to help fix the cell.

And get it moving into AMPK.

What people don't understand is based on

what your cell will tell

your immune system how to work.

If I'm in mTOR, I'm in

phase one immune function.

If I'm in AMPK, I'm in

phase two immune function.

And what all people need to know about

that is phase two immune function is how

when you were 16 years old, you could

fall off a building and drink poison and

feel great the next day.

Okay.

And now today as you're older, you'll

start noticing your blood sugars on

average creep up even if they're in

range, you start creeping up because

you're spending more time in an mTOR.

And the problem with that is now, if I

don't sleep eight hours,

I feel like I'm hungover.

Right.

And so I need to get your

body to spend more time in AMPK.

And what are ways to achieve that?

Well, keto, carnivore, fasting,

intermittent fasting, activity.

And then there's tools, autophagy, like

tools, peptides, all that stuff that

assist the body in

getting into autophagy.

Now the body can get rid of cells that

don't have enough mitochondria in them

that aren't working very well.

We got to get these senescent cells out.

It's a conversation for another day.

Once we start removing these, and this is

what I believe why, like let's say you

get an Epstein-Barr virus, somehow it

attacks the thyroid.

So TPO goes up, you have senescent cells

around your thyroid.

I want to get rid of those cells, you can

fast them out with autophagy.

So phase three is the cell.

I got to fix the cell to get well.

And then I need to then after that phase,

I got to balance out insulin

and leptin and all of that.

And then I move into the hormone phase

because the thing that keeps everything

kind of stable, really strong,

homeostasis, is your sex hormones.

So then I balance out the sex hormones is

the last part of it to keep

you really stable and vital.

And then make sure that your body

performs in the

environment that you need to be in.

Meaning that the function phase is what

do I need to get you functioning for?

Are you an athlete?

Are you someone who

needs to work a lot of hours?

Are you someone who's a mom that needs to

function for three kids?

Are you somebody who's an engineer who

needs their brain power all the time?

I want to optimize your diet, training,

supplements, even genetics, do genetics

testing to be optimal for that function

so that you can sustain that level of

stress without

breaking the system back down.

Because resiliency is more

important than asymptomatology.

You've got to get to resiliency in order

for people to thrive.

And so through that 4F process, they're

studying my diets right now at the

University of South Florida.

And I'm telling you guys right now, we

will see that the data that comes out of

this is going to rock the nutrition and

functional medicine world

because we have figured it out.

And it's not about one thing.

It's about a process that creates pattern

recognition that then holds your hand and

mentally coaches you through it in order

to achieve some level of freedom.

And that's what we do.

And now I'm just ready for

the world to find out, man.

Vince, you have created

an incredible framework.

And I can just attest to

this being an effective model.

Now, I know most coaches could likely

take a client through

what you've created.

And they can probably

get some level of results.

But to be honest, that's not necessarily

what makes a good health

coach a good health coach.

It's something you've

mentioned earlier again.

It's an order of operations things.

Really knowing when, I suppose you think

about it, which sort of

phase to plug in at which time.

Because you can work

someone through a process.

But if you don't have an intrinsic

understanding of maybe the biology, the

physiology, and how the process works,

then you don't know when to progress

somebody, when to progress somebody, when

to sort of take somebody,

yeah, backwards or forwards.

I'd love to get your

thoughts on this, though.

How do you progress somebody who is maybe

struggling and maybe not getting the

results that they are

after the first time round?

Do you sort of take them

straight back to the beginning?

Or is there a,

what are your thoughts there in terms of?

Yeah, so the reason that I have the four

step process embedded in there, Rob, is

about 16 variables that we check off.

And that's something that we train in the

back end of like, if somebody comes in,

first off, our job, if somebody comes in

and says they feel some type of way, our

first job is to believe them.

So we're going to go so hard at what you

believe to help you out.

And if we get all the way to the end of

the road, and we've checked off the 16

most likely reasons that are all involved

in the process, and if that doesn't work,

there's only a couple left over.

And so we know where to go.

See, that's why

deduction is so important.

If I skip steps, and I'm doing whatever,

or I do one treatment, if

it doesn't work, then what?

Right?

And that's where most

people find themselves.

Then what?

In our program, then we've got a couple

things left over where we go, okay, we

know that this is either deeper genetic,

and we're missing a

mutation that is throwing us off.

Right?

Or we didn't get, we did not go deep into

the cell enough, we need we need there's

more cells and the body needs more time.

There's only about two or three things

left over that we know that we need to go

in harder and spend more time with.

And so sometimes we'll real quick run

through the fore half just to open it

back up and make sure it's where

sometimes it helps to kind of like flush

the system back out for a second, make

sure you've checked your balances, but

you get through it really quickly.

And then we'll go to emphasize on the

area that we got stuck in the most.

And, and then we'll know how to go

deeper, like, because how do you know

where to really

double down an investment?

Otherwise, you're just throwing shit at

the wall hoping it sticks, excuse my

language, but it's kind of what happens.

And so that's one of the reasons I feel

so confidently like,

like, let me give an example,

Rob, breast implant illness.

What is breast implant illness, right?

We can argue a lot of things, but

fundamentally what it is, is an

autoimmune reaction to the implant.

Okay, fundamentally.

Now you can't have leakage, you can have

all these different

things, and that can be true.

Right.

But did you know, I've worked now 2000

cases of BII or supposed BII.

And did you know that less than 10% of

them was actually the implant?

It was the immune system reacting to all

kinds of other things

going on in the body.

Once we got rid of that stuff, the body

didn't react to the implant anymore.

Yeah, that was just the trigger.

The needle there broke the camel's back.

Right.

Think of the same logic here.

Hashimoto's, do we

just cut out the thyroid?

No.

Some people might.

I know, graves, you might.

I'm grave, I might argue that.

But you can actually get the

body back into homeostasis.

Now,

excluding leaks or a manufacturer error,

like all that other stuff, which is

probably accounts right now for about

three to 6% of what's going on out there.

I would say that one out of 10 women, the

implant because of the immune system,

it's the scar tissue.

See, it's the scar tissue.

If the implant because of the, you know

how people who they don't do well if they

put in fake earrings, or they get bad

when they have a scar,

it scars up real bad.

Chemical sensitivities.

Yeah.

Those people have a very

reactive immune system.

And one thing about the immune system,

when it's very

reactive, it hates scar tissue.

Hates it.

Right.

And so the problem with this is, is that

what is a capsule are scar tissue.

Okay.

It's the body trying to protect you from

what is already happening.

I also see that by the way, I believe

that's what's happening in most EBV Lyme

cases where if there is something left

over, the body starts to create, that's

what I think senescent cells start to do.

It encapsulates the virus.

And we'll talk about that another time,

which is really interesting to try to

stop it from dividing.

And those cells turn

into senescent cells.

If there is virus left over,

that's where I think we find it.

And so, again, that's another topic.

That's why part of my process, we will

use homeopathics with the

viral signature if we need to.

And then we start doing fast feasting

strategies to train the body what to look

for to go find it and get rid of it.

But coming back to the implant.

So what we end up finding is that most of

the time, if I calm the immune imbalance

down, it has no

problem with the scar tissue.

But those 10%,

it will, the scar tissue has gotten so

heavy, maybe something's growing on the

scar tissue, like mold, by

the way, which it can happen.

Okay.

And then, or that there's so much damage

to the scar tissue in some way that it

just keeps drawing the immune system in,

then they have to be removed.

But the crazy thing is, if you go in and

remove them and do a capsule, ectomy, or

really get rid of a lot of scar tissue to

let it reform another capsule, which is

another conversation for another day.

If you use a very aggressive immune

protocol up front to shunt the immune

response and prevent rejection, they can

have the implants again with no problem.

We've seen it.

Now I'm not saying go

back to the implant.

I'm not even, I'm not a moral judge of

like what you're doing with your body.

I'm very interested in how the immune

system learns and adapts

and what it creates over time.

Right?

So a lot of people think it's

the implant that's the problem.

It's not.

It's the scar tissue

oftentimes from the capsule.

Yeah, that's fascinating.

I'm gonna have to look into that.

That's something I've

definitely learned today.

I don't know that there was so much

hyperactivity between scar

tissue and any immune system.

So I'll definitely You'll find that.

And that's why a lot of times we'll have

people go in and cut out, like if they go

redo the surgery and kind of clean the

scar tissue and then put in an immune.

It could have been from a

bad knee injury or something.

Yeah.

And we'll have them clean it out.

And then we do, we shunt the immune

system so it doesn't

create more of it again.

It's more of a, it's a

safer healing process.

And then they don't have the same

reactions anymore,

which is super fascinating.

The point of why I'm sharing that, right,

is to come back to finding out that if

you don't work a deductive process, and

you just remove the implants, you might

feel a little bit better

for about three months.

But the overwhelming evidence today is

over 60, 70% of people who have an X

plant go back to feeling like crap,

because you didn't get to

the root of the problem.

Yeah, you just potentially took out the

trigger, but you didn't solve the you

didn't get the immune system into a

condition state where it actually needs

to get into so that the body can then

operate as it should do and get out of

that cell danger response and back into

normal cell physiology.

Yeah,

Vince gallbladder removal, gallbladder.

Yeah, there we go. 90% of gallbladder

removal ends in an autoimmune disease.

I'm sure it does in 10 years.

Yeah, because you're not dealing

downstream with any sulfation,

glucuronidation, any of the sort of

hepatic buildup that sorry, I'm going to

stop there before I can attend it.

I know you got it, bro.

You already you're

spitting fire right now.

Yeah, it's amazing.

Vince, honestly, I

could talk to you all day.

I know you have me come back, man.

We'll do another one.

If if your if your followers, listeners,

watchers, if they say, Hey, bring that

guy a crazy guy back,

we'd love to hear him.

I'll come back if they don't have fun in

your audience, because you

truly are one in a million.

Before before I let you go, would you

mind if we just ran through

a few rapid fire questions?

Rapid fire.

Let's go.

Absolutely.

Perfect.

Always good for reals.

Okay, maybe go slightly against what we

were just talking about.

But if you had one wish for one lab that

new clients arrived with you arrived

with, what would it be?

I'm gonna go genetics test.

Genetics test because

genetics are the future.

It can tell me a lot about why your

body's responding the way that it is.

And I can add nutrients that will help it

heal or resolve different issues.

And it can help me forego any problems

that I might run into that make you

unique during the process.

Yeah, no, I've still got to get my hands

on your new DNA test when it finally it

actually comes out the next month.

That's awesome.

Yeah, it's incredible.

Flush feed, fast or function, which is

your personal favorite phase of the

fourth process and why?

Fast phase, fast phase spiritually, the

Bible mentions a fasting 77 times,

whether you agree that the Bible is a

book of wisdom or a book of the living

God, it's I don't want

to argue that that's okay.

But what I can tell you is that don't you

think it's possible that if every

religion in the world agrees on one thing

that that one thing is probably truth.

And do you know what that one thing is?

Fasting?

No, 100%.

Perfect.

Most overrated supplement in the

industry, functional health in general.

Oh boy, the most overrated supplement in

the industry is without a doubt, in my

professional opinion, right?

And I'm gonna ruffle some some feathers

here, probably most likely is fish oil.

And the reason I say fish oil is most

fish oil is is not certified by a third

party, it's not made correctly, the oil

is rancidified, or it's not even rancid,

it's just dead, which

is an anisodyne level.

And everybody takes it thinking it's

going to be the thing to their future.

And they're not even taking one that has

enough EPA, DHEA in it.

And they're not taking a large enough

dose that is going to

create a medicinal outcome.

Over time, I think the

research over touts it.

And I think that people, you know, they

should be wise about where they're

getting the fish oil from.

Yeah, no, I couldn't agree.

I mean, when you start looking at those

totox values on a fish oil test, and the

oxidation in them is just nuts.

And then obviously, a lot of people

actually can't break down fish oils into

their active

components, what are they called?

Not SMPs?

Yeah, well, there's going from your

arachnidonic or oleic acids.

And the problem with fads too, is you

can't break that down.

That's the genetic.

So it's like that's part of the problem.

Once again, that's why I want that

genetics test, you know?

Yeah, no, completely.

Yeah, that's going to bite me.

I'll probably I'll send an email one in

the morning when I remember what I'm

trying to sort of jump to.

Anyway, okay, next one.

Say someone drops 100 million into your

lab tomorrow to run a

large scale clinical trial.

What are you spending that money on?

A large scale clinical trial.

I'm going to go stem cell H-BOT treatment

used in unison on almost any

disease, IV and injectable, um,

using in conjunction

with functional medicine.

The clinic I want to make that I'm going

to make soon with IV stem cell, that's

where I'm going to go with peptides

together, bringing you in for a week,

lots of oxygen, the oxygen

is a healer and it can't hurt.

That's why we need to just

blast people with oxygen, right?

And, and I believe that if we create

centers that allow people to get

corresponding treatments in unison in a

short period of time and get them back in

their life and then get them a coach to

work the rest of the process, I believe

that that is the future.

So my first clinic that's going to

approach this is, uh, is

coming very, very, very soon.

I often wonder if I just sent everybody a

male to my transportable H-BOT, which is

hyperbaric in case anybody knows, and you

did anything with H-BOT in conjunction.

What could the outcomes be?

And, but I believe stem cells and oxygen

exposed at the same time.

I believe very heavily that that is a

massive part of our future.

Yeah, no, no, I couldn't agree more.

I think there might be a few

contraindication to some viruses like BOT

and they learned something as

far as they know you are right.

Active.

You are correct.

Yeah, you are correct.

In fact, it happened to me.

I did stem cells recently had gotten

COVID and it put me

back in a full action.

It made me very sick.

Yeah.

And again, that just speaks to your, uh,

your, your understanding of the subject

matter and, and knowing the

order of operations again.

Anyway.

Okay.

Final one.

Um, and I'll, I'll

actually put that to Dr.

Dale Khan, who I'm sure

you are familiar with.

I'll be chatting to him in a few weeks

and I'd love to get his take on that.

But anyway, um, cold therapy

versus sawn for overall health.

It depends what stage.

Okay.

If you've been highly chronically

inflamed for a very, very long time, he

activates phase one immune function.

So we want it.

We want to stay away from it and use cold

shock proteins in the acute and halfway

through the subacute phase.

Once we've achieved a level of

inflammation, as it starts to come down,

the detox pathways are more open, right?

And then we can start applying contrast

where we apply them together, usually in

some form of a 10 minutes heat to two

minutes cold, and you can

run rounds of it if you want.

But I'm telling everybody, I'm begging

people to understand, I

know you don't want this,

but cold therapy is the primary way that

we should be attacking most problems that

are in the chronic phase in the

preventative phase, more heat, but in the

chronic phase, more cold and truthfully

putting them together kind of mitigates

the risk of the

downside of any one of them.

And I believe very heavily we use cold

therapy and undoubtedly is an

incredible, incredible tool.

Yeah, no, it's amazing.

And people just get again, it speaks to

what you were talking about earlier,

people getting hooked up on one modality.

So one is going to hear all your issues.

If you're going to chronically

overexpressed immune system and you blast

a lot of heat at it, all of a sudden,

you've got a histamine reaction and

people sort of get sort of lost in this

sort of, why do I feel worse?

That's why right now, when we're under

record heat, this is why immune problems

are going to get, as we get hotter,

immune problems are

going to get way worse.

So global warming is going to create more

medical issues than we realize.

And so that's why, and you know, that's

one of the biggest problems, right?

And so what I just want people to

realize, anything that you do to the

body, anything you do to the human body,

the most optimal amount of time that you

should probably do it in general as a

general rule is 12 weeks.

Why is it 12 weeks?

Because the human body has grown and

developed and shaped its

DNA around seasons, right?

So it's used to having to acclimate to a

new environment and having a pro response

to that environment and then going into a

maladaptive response.

Think about the cold.

When it starts getting cold, man, all

kinds of good things can happen.

But when you stay cold too long and then

illness and lack of sunlight, all these

different things start to

affect, you know, death rates.

And then we move into spring

and there's all these benefits.

But then with spring

comes allergy, right?

So like there's a pro and a maladaptive

response and it happens over

a 12-week timeframe, right?

Which is about the

optimal amount of time.

So if I'm just doing cold for 12 weeks

and I'm getting

really deep into it, fine.

But probably at the end of 12, maybe we

should throw in some heat.

Maybe we take a break.

Maybe we do contrast.

Maybe we only do heat.

That's why variation is

the key to optimal living.

And it's very hard for

us consistent, you know,

structured human beings to adopt

variation in a meaningful sort of way.

But once we begin to understand what I'm

saying, you start to see everything that

way and it starts to become a little

easier to apply in the mastery of it.

Vince, you're amazing.

And I'm not just saying that you, you

understand this better

than almost anyone I know.

So thank you for the time.

Come and fish you.

That means a lot, man.

And you guys support Rob.

He's an incredible guy.

He's lived it.

I know, I know his journey.

I've stood alongside of him.

If anybody is a pursuer of truth and it

is genuine, it is this man.

So continue to listen to him as he

explores truth over the

next months and years.

So thanks Rob.

Thank you for your time, Vince.

Awesome.

See you, brother.