This is More Than Work, the podcast reminding you that your self worth

is made up of more than your job title.

Each week I'll talk to a guest about how they discovered that for themselves.

You'll hear about what they did, what they're doing, and who they are.

I'm your host, Rabiah.

I work in IT, perform standup comedy, write, volunteer, and of course, podcast.

Thank you for listening.

Here we go.

Hey everyone.

So today I have a guest who I have known for 20 years because my first job

outta college is where we met, which was yeah, back in San Diego at ProFlowers.

We both moved on from there and we both moved on from that city as well.

It's Patrick Alcoke.

He's he's the co-founder at Find Your Steady.

Thanks for being on Patrick.

Yeah.

Thanks for having me, Rabiah.

So where am I talking to you

from?

Uh, Yeah.

So I am here in Maryland right outside of Baltimore.

Nice.

Nice.

And so you've been in Maryland how long?

We moved here from San Diego about seven years ago

when our first daughter was born.

And I've been outta San Diego and then I went back, so I guess

I was there more recently, but it's a lot different on the East coast I guess.

It It is, it's, it's one of those things where we probably

talk about moving back to San Diego, my wife and I, 30 times a year, and

then we'll go out there ,and then once we come back for the next three

months, we're trying to plan it.

And then life kicks back in, and then we're still here in Maryland.

Yeah, no, I get it.

I I've faced that similar thing of like I went home last winter or for the holidays

and I was like, Oh, I miss being home.

But then I got back here and I'm like, miss my life here too.

So, yeah, it's totally understandable.

So let's just get right into Find Your Steady.

So you wanna talk a little bit about what the company is and what you do there?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

So Find Your Steady was started by me and my business partner, Brian who

is another really long time friend.

I met him at college in Virginia Tech.

We actually played in a band together back then.

But it's, it's us.

He's here in Maryland too.

And we rekindled our friendship when I got back and have always

been throwing ideas around.

But when the pandemic hit, we were kind of approaching keeping our mental

health in check, trying to just stay ahead of everything in different ways.

And I've been.

Avid meditator and journaler for going on 10 years now.

And he actually makes candles and that's kind of his therapeutic activity.

And we were talking one day and he was showing me his candles and, you

know, I was like, These are legit.

You know, when he first told me about 'em, I thought he was gonna show me

like, you know, like a mason jar filled with like melted crowns or something.

But no, it

Ha.

it was a really legit candle.

And we started hashing it out and I was like, Yeah, you

know, Businesses in the past.

I said, I'd love to help you bring it to market.

And we kind of started looking around and, you know, there's a ton of candle

companies out there and it, so it kind of got to how do we differentiate ourselves?

And something that I've always I'll say worked on, and, and sometimes

that means I'm working well, sometimes that means I'm struggling,

to keep my levels of stress down.

You know, I get pretty stressed out being a parent and entrepreneur and, you know,

person living through the past few years.

Candles have always to me been linked to like de-stress and you come in, you

light a candle, it kind of sets the mood, whatever mood you're going for.

I was like, what if we try to figure out a way to help people

reduce stress, but we tie it to a physical product being a candle.

And since then we've actually came out with the journal as well.

So that's really where all of this started.

We.

A web app built that has different tools people can use on a daily

basis or on a weekly basis to just kind of find their study.

That's the best way to describe it.

Like find that medium place where you're not totally stress free.

Cause I don't think that's possible, but you're going through your

day, you gotta smile on your face.

You can handle the challenges that come your way.

Yeah, that's, that's kind of what we're setting out to do.

We're setting out to help.

Do the things they need to do to better manage stress.

We just do it with a candle, as funky as that

Yeah, well, and so just looking at your site and knowing a bit

about your background with work, I mean, it's a very, the website's very clean and

simple and you have basically, I guess two products bundled in different ways, right?

Is that fair?

Like you have candles and the journal and then the different candles.

And so what I've noticed is a lot of people will say, Oh, I'm doing a

company that does X and then they'll do Y, Z, A, B, C, D, E, F, G, And so

how has that been for you to make the conscious decision to stay in your lane?

So to speak.

It's really hard.

Like I, I totally get it when people start a company and then there's,

there's 15 things they're offering.

When you're starting, like when you're small and you're starting this company,

you get feedback from one person and that's a good amount of feedback.

So, you know, if one person says, Oh, I like this, but you should try

this, and you know, when we're first starting, we're not selling very much.

So like, oh my gosh, that's a great point.

You know, we should go do this and this and this.

So you're trying to appease everyone that gives you feedback.

And what we've really had to do is we set our mission and that

was we're gonna help people.

De-stress, right?

Reduce stress.

Manage stress.

And I don't know about you, but for me, when I am the most stressed out is what

I'm trying to manage a bunch of stuff.

There's just clutter.

I have 15 different things going on.

So our whole approach was, let's keep it as simple as possible.

It started off just the candle, right?

And a candle.

if you scan it with a QR code and it brings up our web app.

On our web app, there's a a three minute breathing exercise.

There's we call 'em a de-stress activity that's updated daily.

You know, go out, take a walk.

Drink enough water.

There's a journaling prompt that changes daily and then there's a playlist.

Started off just like that.

And what we found is people are using the journal prompts a lot.

So we actually came out with a journal to compliment the candle, but then we said,

you know, let's prove that this works.

And so we have all these different ideas and it really is just about saying, does

this help someone reduce their stress?

No.

Put it on the back burner.

You know, we have a big list.

I don't think things is audio, so a big one.

I'm, I'm using my hands to show really big um, of things we could do and we'd like

to do, but it's just not the right time.

So we really want to focus on what we know works from personal

experience, and from feedback we're getting and then build it from there.

Awesome.

And were the candles being sold somewhere before this or was

it just like hobby slash gift?

Yep.

Exactly.

It was it was my partner Brian's hobby, Like, it was, it was, it was really,

it was his, his therapy, you know?

One of the things that I'm fortunate enough to have found out.

Brian is fortunate to found out you with comedy I'm sure have found this

out, is that if you find something you really love doing, a lot of times it

provides you that therapeutic outlet.

And it doesn't have to be anything crazy.

It could be something as simple as exercise, making candles.

I do a lot of woodworking.

This was Brian's therapeutic thing that helped him just clear his

head, Focus on one thing, let all the complicated parts of life kind

of fade away for an amount of time.

So, hadn't been launched.

That was kind of how we got it started.

But then it started to build into something a lot bigger where you know,

candles are great, but I think with what we're doing, we can actually

make an impact in people's lives.

Yeah, it Well, and it's interesting with those,

those hobbies that can, can help.

And sometimes, I mean, and I was talking to you before we came on, like

I canceled a gig this week because though being on stage is something that

I really love doing if I'm not doing it.

Maybe with the right people or for the right purpose, then it takes

it away and I, I almost think like any hobby is like that, right?

If it becomes too much of a burden, then it's like, forget it, basically.

And I think also we, we were talking about expectations earlier.

I think that that's a big player in that as well because I think when

you have something you love doing, you know, you hear a lot of people

say, "Find your passion and you'll never work another day in your life."

And I think people's expectations get wrapped around that.

And what they find is they, they have something they love, but the reason

they love it is because it's not work.

And then when they turn it into work, now it is work.

And so no matter what you're doing there, there are good parts and bad parts

and frustrating parts of everything.

So I definitely know what you mean because I've had things, I mean, I did

music for years and once I went after that and tried to make that an actual

profession, that's when stress came.

That's when, you know, you're on the road and you don't know how you're gonna get

to your next show and don't have enough money to eat and you're like, Ah, I really

like doing this, but is it worth it?

You know?

Yeah.

you have those right expectations, I think, I

think you can get through anything.

that's true.

And what's your relationship with music now?

And can you talk a little bit about how your music career went

and then we'll go back to Find Your Steady a little bit more.

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, honestly, my music, my relationship to music right now is I write

songs still and I play 'em for my kids.

That's about it.

Which is, and you know, completely a 180 from, from what it was.

I started playing guitar when I was 10.

I always thought it would cool to be, would be cool to be a rock star, you

know, That was, that was the dream.

Be a rock star.

And so that, that brought me out to California after college.

And I played in a band out there for I think seven years.

We didn't make it big or anything, you know, we went on

some tours around the country.

So that was cool.

That was, that was kind of the goal I'd set, you know, at least want to do that.

And then, like I talked about the the work side of it came in.

Like if you're an independent band and you're booking shows across the country

where absolutely nobody knows who you are it can get, it can get really stressful.

And, you know, the people that make it, you know, I, I

have so much respect for 'em.

Cause they're the, the ones who can just keep going and going and

going and they hold onto that goal.

I was going and going and going and realized that I didn't, I didn't

think it was what I thought it would be and kind of reevaluated

my priorities and stuff like that.

So still play, still love it.

You know, I, I write more than anything these days.

I was playing with a band and then the pandemic hit, so that

kind of, I took that as a sign.

So we're, we're not doing that anymore.

But yeah.

I think I played bands from the time I was 15 until I was 27.

So that was a big part of my life, and it helps, you know, when you're, when you're

starting a business, if you can convince someone to let your band come play a show

that maybe two people show up to and pay you a hundred dollars in gas money to do

that, i, I think you can sell anything.

Yeah, that's true.

Yeah, that's a good point.

Well, and then looking at your other work experience, I mean,

we worked together for a while.

So we were at ProFlowers, so that was the e-commerce, early

e-commerce, really, back then.

And then you went into other businesses, into real estate and stuff.

So how do you look at the career you've had up till now and how it

prepared you to start your own business and kind of decisions you make now?

Yeah, absolutely.

I I've, I've started a handful of businesses.

I've got, I've got the weirdest work experience ever.

So I did, we were at ProFlowers.

I worked at a guitar shop before that.

I did a stint with Enterprise Rent-A-Car before that.

That was, that was fun.

And then I did music full time.

And then once I kind of hit that point I actually started a beer cheese business.

So my grandfather grew up in Kentucky, here in the United States.

And beer cheese is a big thing, so anyone from Kentucky will know what that is.

And I was out in California where there was like this big,

you know, microbrew scene.

So I asked my grandfather if I could use his recipe and I started

making it with craft beers.

And again, it was one of those things where I didn't know what I was doing.

I had to go to, I made it, I went to Farmer's Market.

I had to be in front of people.

So, that really taught me just being outta my comfort zone.

And if you want something, there are gonna be things you have to do.

Are not in your, your kind of existing tool belt, but you

gotta go figure it out anyways.

After that I started a business called Easily with a buddy of mine

from San Diego that was early drag and drop graphic design online.

So it was like all based around infographics.

And again, same thing, you know, we're pitching to VCs and trying to raise money

and building something from scratch, convincing people to go use it and that,

again, got me way outta my comfort zone.

I had no idea what I was doing, anything, you know, with online

or tech or anything like that.

And then went into a sales job and that led me into real estate.

And I had a real estate investing company for four years.

Where again, I had to learn on my feet.

And I think to, to kind of bring it full circle, it all prepared me to

get outta my comfort zone with what I'm doing now, because I do know how

to, you know, I know how to meditate.

I know how to journal, I know how to coach people through that stuff.

But there's a difference between knowing how to do something and

then convincing people to go try it.

And that is, you know, like, well outside of my comfort zone, like the whole,

you know, online marketing thing is not something I have a lot of experience with.

So that's, what my heavy focus is on right now is just convincing people

to give it a try and educate 'em and, you know, Who's gonna, who's gonna

automatically think, Oh, here's a candle.

I should go de-stress with it.

You know?

So I think realistically what, what all of that does it, it

taught me how to get uncomfortable.

It taught me how to be okay with failing as long as I learn something from it.

You know, you hear all the fail fast, but I don't think enough people say,

make sure you learn something from it.

And that kind of got me to where I am today and got me comfortable with being

uncomfortable and willing to take some risks, and, y ou know, a big part of

that also is understanding that even if it doesn't go well, I can figure

it out and I can land on my feet.

I think that's something that a lot of people who start businesses is one of

the things that they can be confident in is like, even if this goes completely

wrong, I've done it enough times to know I can get back up on my feet.

Hmm.

Yeah.

It's that resilience and and belief that, yeah, that you can do that.

It's not saying everything will work out in the end, though that's part

of it, but it's also that you can be active in getting back on your feet.

Absolutely.

It's, it's, it's asking, it's asking yourself, "is there a

chance that this could work out?"

and "is that chance worth the work it takes to put in?"

If it is, go do it.

If it's not, don't.

There are plenty of great ideas that people didn't go after because they

would've, you know, wasted their time.

But as long as you, you truly feel like there is even the most minute

chance and you feel like it's worth it, if you can accomplish what you're

looking to accomplish to go out and put the work in, then go for it.

I mean, I look at what you're doing now.

I, I, I love watching your comedy and, you know, knowing from when we

first met, and I always thought you had one of the best senses of humor.

It's so dry and the fact that you're in England right now, I think's just perfect

because I think of like dry humor and the original Office and stuff like that.

I'm like, Oh God, she's gotta be killing it.

But like I look at that and if I was like, I wanna be a comedian, I

would immediately think, Is there a chance this could succeed for myself?

And the answer being no.

So that would answer that first question.

And then the second part would be, is it worth the work that I've seen you put in?

I'm like, No, that chance is so small for me and I'm not that funny.

So no, it wouldn't, but

Yeah.

there is a chance I could help people better deal with stress,

especially right now, everyone's stressed.

Yeah, well, and just listening to you talk about, and thank

you by the way, and I appreciate that and I kind of recently have had that.

I didn't ask myself that question of if I could possibly succeed until a while

into it because I didn't have the belief in myself other than, I just had more,

like this was my goal is to get on stage.

It wasn't having a belief in myself.

And recently that's changed a little bit, which has made it even more difficult

in a way, but in a good way, right?

It's just kind of like, Oh, I, there's a purpose to what I'm doing.

And it's not the one I thought it was, you know.

But, so for you with Find Your Steady and just in listening to you talk,

I mean, one thing you touched on is that you do meditate and you do know

how to journal and, and so you're writing all the blogs for this company

and you're handling probably the text in the app and stuff like that.

And so is that a shift for you in, in a different kind of purpose around

what you're doing business wise, which is now he like seeking to help people

versus maybe what you did before?

Yeah.

I've always tried to find some sense that everything I did help people.

You know, I, I worked for a company that that sold education product and

y ou could look at it either way.

You know, some people would look at it and say, that's a waste of money, and

you're, you know, it doesn't help anyone.

And then I saw plenty of people, like, I still keep in touch with someone that

bought something from me, who there's three guys and they went on and they built

a very successful business out of it.

So, you know, helping people and serving people in some ways has always been

kind of an underlying principle of mine.

Very principled, very idealistic, to a fault even.

With the writing with the journaling prompts, I've, I've always been into that.

I've always liked doing it.

I haven't necessarily done it in this capacity, but I do do some coaching.

I've done it for years on the side where you know, I work with people who are

looking to accomplish different goals.

It's never necessarily been anything I've done in this business.

I just love doing it.

And so what I found is that the experience I get from that coaching

side of things has helped write some of the articles has helped me come up

with, you know, the daily journaling prompts or things that I've asked myself

in the past questions that have helped me and that I really wanted to answer.

And you know, even like with, with our de-stress activities, it's things that

I constantly have to remind myself, like sometimes, you know, every now and then

it'll, it'll like, it'll legitimately.

The daily de-stress activity is go outside and go for a walk.

Like the simplest thing anyone can do, but there is so much research that is shown

by going for a walk for 10 or 15 minutes can drastically reduce your stress levels.

It's insane.

And so that, that is something that I've, I've really wanted to, to put out

there and communicate with people and help people better understand, and you

know, a lot of it comes from also habits.

You know, I, I've meditated for 10 years now, not because I want to, or

I'm trying to achieve, you know, Zen or Nirvana or anything like that.

It's just cause I'm literally stressed out.

I get anxiety and I have to do it.

But it didn't come easily at first, but now that I've done it for this

long, it, it, it's ingrained in me.

So, you know, part of what we're looking to do also is help people build

these habits of, you know, whether you wanna call it meditation or taking

a few moments to breathe every day.

Whether you wanna call it journaling or writing down some thoughts

in the morning or before you go to bed, like getting stuff outta

your head is an amazing medicine.

Things like drinking enough water every day, like I had to, I literally

had to build a habit to where now I drink about a hundred ounces of water

a day and I thought I was drinking.

In reality, I was drinking maybe half of that and I was always dehydrated.

That made me tired.

So, that was a very long way to answer your question.

But all of these things combined allow me to go write an article

on why you should drink water.

Or.

The most recent one, why you should just pause before you react to anything.

Or, why journaling or taking a walk or taking five minutes or

three minutes to breathe every day can drastically change your life.

All of that is kind of full circle on helping.

Understand that there are small things you can do to find that

equilibrium within stress.

Again, you're never gonna get rid of stress and you don't want to, You know,

there's good and bad stress, but if you can do little things one at a time,

build 'em into habits, then you really can go from say an eight to a six.

If you go from an eight to a six on a daily basis, your life is

gonna be drastically better, and that's what we wanna help people do.

Hm.

That's great.

Yeah, and so just people can basically go on buy candle, they can buy the

bundle with the journal if they wanna try the journaling, or they can just

get the candle and do the app and

and see what it does or send it to someone basically.

Yep.

I've, I've I've sent it to quite a few people just because, you know, this

isn't something especially, you know, like, I hate to say it, but there are

a lot of, a lot of guys that could benefit from something like this.

That I know won't you know, whatever, whether it's a machismo

thing or not into it or just the whole, you know, candles thing.

But it, it, if you're, if you're listening and you know, this isn't to sell a

product cuz there's a lot of other things you could get somebody to help 'em out.

There's, there's some amazing apps, There's, you know, programs

out, there's a lot of good stuff.

But if there's someone, you know, who, who is stressed out or, you

know, struggling for mental health issues or something, you know,

sending them something thoughtful by.

Helps immensely.

But making that thing something they can actually utilize to help in the

littlest way is, is a huge thing.

So we definitely, we always recommend people, even if you don't think

this is for you, if there's someone you think could benefit from it,

you know, definitely send it.

Yeah.

Well that's great.

So as far as, I mean we've talked quite a bit and you talked about your

practices and stuff, but is there any advice or mantra that you wanna

share that just, you kind of think it's something that's important for

everybody to remember than what you've

Yeah, absolutely.

And I'm gonna reiterate a couple things.

If, if, if you take nothing else from, from, you know, this interview or this

podcast, There are, there are a few little things if you do daily, you will, dr.

You'll see drastic difference.

One go to bed, just people go, go to sleep, get sleep.

Like everyone these days is, you know, I'll sleep and I'm dead.

Or five, five hours of sleep is not enough.

You know, try and get seven, eight hours a night.

I know I'm preaching here, but it's, it, it drastically changed my life.

Especially if you can, if you can get in a routine where most of the

time you're going to bed at the same time and you're getting up at

the same time, it's a life changer.

The other thing is try and find a few moments a day to breathe.

If you can just sit in a quiet space, breathe in, and just focus

on your breath and breathe out.

Breathe in for three, hold it for three seconds, Breathe out for three.

It's, it's a game changer.

Takes a minute, two minutes, five minutes, however long you wanna.

And then, like I said, drink more water.

It's, it's one of the things that I never would've thought would've

contributed to stress like it has for me.

But I found that when I drink enough water I am not as tired.

I'm not as worn out, I'm not as cranky.

And they say minimum you should be drinking about half your body weight and

ounces of water a day and up from there.

So that's, that's, if, that's what I want people to take away from this

call, if nothing else, and, and hope.

Nice.

Yeah, that's great.

And it's funny, I've had this, I didn't do it this time, but every time you

say "Drink water," I drink water.

It's like a Pavlovian response.

So we should just record your voice saying that every hour I should hear it and I'll

I'm gonna do that.

I'm going to do a, a drink water meditation where someone just sits

there for three minutes and it's just me saying drink water every five seconds.

Perfect.

And then, and then they'll be really mad at you about 25, 30 minutes from, from

True.

But then, you know, a day later they'd be like, Oh gosh, that

guy Patrick, he's so swell.

Great.

All right.

So now I just have the last set of questions are called the Fun five, and

they're questions I just ask everybody.

So the first one what's the oldest T-shirt you have and still wear?

I have a t-shirt, so I'm 39 years old now, I have a t-shirt that

I got when I was 16 at a Goodwill store.

It's a DARE shirt.

I don't remember what it stands for.

Yeah.

drug.

Yeah, it was, Yeah, I know what you mean.

It was the dare, like dare to keep kds off drugs

Yeah, exactly.

So it's like neon.

It's a black T-shirt

and it's neon.

When I bought it when I was 16, what was that, 23 years ago?

It was probably 20 years old at that point.

So it's like, it's one of those you like, you can tell when it came out

it was one of those like beefy tees, Incredibly uncomfortable, doesn't

fit well, but it literally just like the most comfortable shirt I own.

And I love people, everyone like every time I see it, people

are like, Oh, I remember dear.

It's cool.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Nice.

That's cool.

And then if every day was really Groundhog's Day, like it used to feel

like during the pandemic and sometimes now what song would you have your

alarm clock set to play every morning?

Oh man.

There's a song that I don't, I don't know when it came out, but a buddy of mine from

high school sent it to me last summer.

It's by a band named Koala and it's called Ticket to Ride.

I call it my summer song, and it is one of these songs where you can't not

a, be in a better mood when during and after listening to it and start dancing.

So yeah, that, that would definitely be one of those,

I can't get tired of it songs

Yeah.

drink water.

I was, I thought you were gonna talk more, so I, I did.

I drank water.

All right.

Coffee or tea or neither?

Uh, both.

So, coffee in the morning and then there's a tea.

I actually just drank some now and that's why I'm talking so fast too.

What is it called?

Goyo.

It's like a, they call it, they, they, I'm a total marketers dream.

They sold it as like Amazonian Warrior Tea that they've been drinking for centuries.

And I'm like, All right, sign me up.

So I do do coffee in the.

One, one and a half cups.

And then tea.

If I need to pick me up, I'll do tea, but nothing after 2:00 PM or I can't sleep.

Yeah, that makes sense.

I know, and I had coffee late, but I I just reheated it, you know, and

it'll, if I have it late enough, it won't get me until later.

So I, I get to sleep and then I wake up and edit podcasts in the

middle of the night or something.

You should just drink water next time you wake up.

It'll help.

I know I should drink wa I'll just have it in my head, drink water.

All right.

And can you think of something that just like cracks you up or like last

time you like laughed so hard you cried?

So I have two, I have two daughters, one of them's seven, one

of them's three and a half, and they've gotten really into the the Sing 2.

There's a movie called Sing 2.

It's a kids movie.

Yep.

And Lately they've learned the songs.

But they don't know all the lyrics, but they keep singing 'em

and just make 'em up as they go.

So that, that I almost crashed our car cause I was laughing so hard.

Which is terrible to say, but I, I, I, it was, it was one of the

funniest things I'd ever heard.

The, I forget what song were we listening to?

I don't remember the song that was from, it was from the soundtrack, but the name

Steve was in it, the name Roger was in it.

Mm-hmm.

It has nothing to do with the song, but it's one of those things

that, like my kids, kids are so funny.

Like that whole kids say the darnest things like when you have a kids

these age they can be like the most frustrating people in the world.

But the gold, like if we had a recording at all times, not at all times, but like

around them, I, we'd be millionaires.

They'd just say the funnies.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, they're, they're great.

And I mean, just the misunderstood song lyrics are funny anyway, but kids do

come up with, with wild ones, you know?

For sure.

That's awesome.

Okay.

And then who inspires you right now?

You know, that was a, that was a journaling prompt the other day.

Man, you ever get those questions where, It's you, you,

it's hard to think about it.

And so it seems like you don't have anyone, but really you're trying to like

go through all these people in your head.

Well, and I purposely did right now versus like ever

cuz like sometimes, Yeah, it.

But I'm inspired by someone today that maybe a month ago I didn't

even know them or something.

You know what I mean?

It could be, yeah.

person.

You can say whatever you want.

So there's, I just read this book, it's called Stolen Focus.

And it's by a guy named, I hope I don't mispronounce his name.

Johann Hari.

Johann.

Or Johann Hari.

I just finished it and it talks about how how as a society, our

focus has really diminished.

And it starts off him taking this trip for three months to somewhere in Cape Cod.

And he leaves his phone and his internet, his computer that has internet behind,

and he only has a, he's a journalist.

He has this laptop, does this whole thing.

He starts to get his focus back and starts to notice things, stuff like that.

And so it sends him on this kind of journey.

Better understand what's causing our attention.

And, and it really comes back to the idea that we can only do so much as

individuals to get our attention back because there are kind of external forces

at play that have a lot of money and are very smart at taking our attention.

And then it started to talk about how kids are affected by that.

It, it kind of had me look at, you know, how my kids interact with

technology and stuff like that.

. I would say him because that book could have gone a completely different direction

and the stuff he was writing is not gonna be a popular id popular idea, but it

seems like he hit the nail on the head.

So I like, I'm always inspired by people who go out on a limb to do what's right.

And I think that's what he did with that book.

So if we're saying right now, say it's him.

Amazing.

Cool.

Yeah, I'll have to check that out.

I think it's, it's interesting when people kind of are looking at the impact

of stuff on kids too, because I think from the pandemic and then technology

and everything it's not gonna be really known for another 10 or 20 years.

And then it's gonna be kind of, we would wish we would've done

something, probably is my guess.

Yep.

He, he, he did a really cool job cuz he also presented like if

there was if there's contradictory evidence to the point he was

making, he, he was transparent.

He said, look, this is this, but there's also other people within

the body of science who disagree with this and here's what they say.

I, I thought that was really cool.

Cuz you know, most of these books you read, it's, it's very one sided and

they like give you these facts, but they don't tell you that there are 10

other facts along with this one that say something else and let you as the, the

reader, the consumer, make up your mind.

No, that's great.

Cool.

And then if people wanna find you, Patrick, where should they go?

Honestly, Find Your Steady.

I, I'm completely off social media by choice for about three years now.

When it comes to stress, I um, I found that when I was on

Facebook, it got very divisive.

Instagram took all my time.

I just there and, you know, was, I mean, maybe I was

addicted to it, I have no idea.

But three years ago I made the choice to completely get off that.

So I mean, really, if they wanna find me, follow me through Find Your Steady.

You know, I'm writing all the articles.

I'm running a lot of the social media we do through those

sites, but that's, kind of it.

I want be able to know me for the work instead of me.

Yeah.

No, that's great.

Cool.

Thanks Patrick.

I really appreciate you being on More Than Work and it's nice to catch up.

really appreciate you having me.

Thanks for listening.

You can learn more about the guest and what was talked about in the show notes.

Joe Maffia created the music you're listening to.

You can find him on Spotify at Joe M A F F I A.

Rob Metke does all the design for which I am so grateful.

You can find him online by.

Searching Rob M E T K E.

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The pod is on all the social channels at at More Than Work Pod

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And the website is more than work pod dot com (morethanworkpod.com).

While being kind to others, don't forget to be kind to yourself.