1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,600
[MUSIC]

2
00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:06,480
Hi there, I'm Danny Brown and you're listening to Pod Chat,

3
00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:11,320
the show that features leaders of the podcasting space sharing their insights on the future of the medium.

4
00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:14,600
This week it's a bonus episode, but first just a quick update.

5
00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:18,840
The show's been on a bit of a hiatus over the summer and it was meant to come back before this,

6
00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:20,840
so I apologise for the delay.

7
00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:25,120
Life got in the way a little bit, so what was meant to be a short break over the summer turned into an extended one.

8
00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:29,640
So again, apologies for that, but the show will be back soon with the usual interviews.

9
00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:35,480
This week, however, I want to talk about why indie podcasters should use direct sponsorship and membership or tips.

10
00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:38,400
I've just come back from Podcast Movement in Denver, Colorado,

11
00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:42,440
and one of the overarching topics that was up for discussion was podcast monetization.

12
00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:44,720
No change there from previous years then.

13
00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:46,040
And it's understandable.

14
00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:49,720
It's a discussion that's been front and center of the podcasting space for many years now,

15
00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,200
especially as we see leading industry publications like Podnews and others

16
00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:56,920
share success stories, partnerships, exclusive deals, and more.

17
00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:02,920
But while the conversation remains fresh, the approach to monetisation seems to have stalled, at least in some quarters.

18
00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:07,200
While I couldn't get to listen to all the sessions and tracks around monetisation at Podcast Movement,

19
00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:12,720
one thing I did notice was some of the thinking about advertising being the lead or the best option for podcasters.

20
00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:17,200
While this might be the case for larger podcasts and media companies that represent these shows,

21
00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:23,880
these ad partnerships work because the podcast is getting tens, if not hundreds of thousands of episode downloads within the first 28 days,

22
00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,840
or 30, depending on whose data you track.

23
00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:28,640
They might even be in the millions.

24
00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:32,760
So yes, it makes sense for advertisers to partner with them and vice versa.

25
00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:37,560
After all, that many ears placed in front of a sponsor's message is always attractive.

26
00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,720
But for the average indie podcaster with maybe a few hundred downloads,

27
00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:42,800
or even averaging a couple of thousand,

28
00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:44,400
this approach won't work.

29
00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,360
And that's okay, because it doesn't need to.

30
00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:50,440
Instead, there are far more effective ways to monetize your show,

31
00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:52,960
regardless the size of your audience.

32
00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:56,120
The problem with using download numbers as a metric for podcast success

33
00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:58,240
is that they don't tell the full story.

34
00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:00,440
Because of auto download features in podcast apps,

35
00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:02,520
and queue for later choices by listeners,

36
00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,120
not every download will result in a listen.

37
00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,160
So while an episode might get 10,000 downloads, for example,

38
00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:11,040
perhaps only 2,000 result in an actual listen.

39
00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:12,740
While that's still a great metric,

40
00:02:12,740 --> 00:02:15,120
it does only represent 20% of the target audience

41
00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:16,360
hearing an ad.

42
00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:18,960
Yet sometimes advertisers still pay for all the downloads,

43
00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:20,440
or maybe impressions.

44
00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:22,500
And again, impressions could be a questionable metric

45
00:02:22,500 --> 00:02:25,560
to go by, depending on how the agreement is set up.

46
00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:29,800
Even if they're paying for CPM, which is cost per mille or cost per thousand listens,

47
00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:33,920
different platforms track listens differently, so that can also skew figures.

48
00:02:33,920 --> 00:02:37,240
Additionally, depending on how the podcaster is inserting ads,

49
00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,160
you may have less say over where they go than other options.

50
00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:43,000
You might also have less say over which ad partners you work with,

51
00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:46,200
depending on whether you're using an ad exchange that gives you that control,

52
00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,560
or with your podcast host that inserts at points they feel make sense,

53
00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,400
and with partners they feel are best suited to you.

54
00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:56,000
This can cause a bit of a disconnect and actually lose your listeners.

55
00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,600
So, instead of taking this ad-based approach,

56
00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,240
think of what makes sense not only for you, but your audience

57
00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:04,320
and the sponsors or partners you're thinking of working with.

58
00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:08,080
Even if you have a smaller audience, if the relevance and context is high,

59
00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:09,960
the more likely an action will be taken,

60
00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:12,720
whether that's your listeners redeeming a discount promo code,

61
00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:14,400
getting an extended free trial,

62
00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:18,960
or access to an exclusive online course event that your sponsor partner is running.

63
00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,920
I was speaking with a podcaster about this at Podcast Movement

64
00:03:21,920 --> 00:03:27,240
and wanted to know how to attract and work with sponsors when the show wasn't attracting thousands and thousands of downloads.

65
00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:29,120
So we went through some of the following.

66
00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:34,720
We chatted about his niche, his downloads, and how many unique listeners he had compared to these downloads.

67
00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:38,520
We saw by his analytics that he had a pretty engaged and loyal listenership.

68
00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:43,080
And we chatted about the types of sponsors he'd want to present to his audience and vice versa.

69
00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:48,120
From there, we saw an opportunity for him to work with a local comic book store in Culver City, Los Angeles.

70
00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:52,120
Because it turns out he had a pretty nice listenership there after attending a Comic-Con style event.

71
00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:59,120
Even though he wasn't local to Culver City, he could let the comic book store know that he has X amount of regular listeners every single week.

72
00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:06,120
And if the store was willing to sponsor the show, then the podcaster essentially has over 50 listeners who he could promote that store to in Culver City.

73
00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:14,120
If you're a small business and you're told that you could potentially get 50+ Warm Leads customers each week, that's a pretty win-win opportunity right there.

74
00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:19,360
That's just one example of where direct sponsorship with a relevant audience and sponsor or partner can work,

75
00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:21,880
even with so-called lower numbers.

76
00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:26,040
What's even cooler about this example is that the podcaster isn't even local,

77
00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:27,600
but the audience is.

78
00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:32,320
Just one more reason why you should be deep diving into your analytics for data that works.

79
00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:37,600
Now with that example, the extra care and time the podcaster put into identifying a sponsor that works for their niche,

80
00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,640
as well as ensuring their audience received value from the partnership,

81
00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:46,320
In this case, exclusive backstage invites to offer appearances and first option a newly released merchandise.

82
00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,120
It makes this a very valid partnership for both sides.

83
00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,360
It's this kind of care and attention for your audience that can also reward you

84
00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:56,480
if you go a more direct route to monetization with tips or memberships.

85
00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,000
Whether that's something like Buy Me A Coffee or Patreon,

86
00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:02,000
or the recently released Tips and Membership feature from Captivate,

87
00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:04,240
where I'm head of podcaster support and experience,

88
00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:07,200
these are excellent ways for you to offer listeners something extra.

89
00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:10,040
And for them to support their favourite podcaster or podcasters

90
00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,040
while getting rewards for doing so.

91
00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,840
It's why one-off tips and memberships are so popular now,

92
00:05:14,840 --> 00:05:17,240
both for podcasters and their listeners.

93
00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:20,440
As a listener, I know I'd rather throw a few bucks the way of a podcaster

94
00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:22,640
whose content has improved my life in some way,

95
00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:25,840
as opposed to one where monetisation is led by how much they can make

96
00:05:25,840 --> 00:05:28,640
instead of how much value they can offer their listeners.

97
00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:30,240
If you look after your audience,

98
00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:32,240
and consistently deliver on their expectations

99
00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:34,240
when it comes to what to expect from your show,

100
00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,040
that consistency will be rewarded by loyalty.

101
00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,040
They'll remain an active listener or follower,

102
00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:43,600
and be more open to supporting you if and when you're ready to offer something for a premium option,

103
00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,840
whether that's a one-off tip or a current monthly membership.

104
00:05:46,840 --> 00:05:49,520
Just make sure to keep things simple and realistic.

105
00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:53,280
If it's a one-off tip, don't overcomplicate with multiple amount options.

106
00:05:53,280 --> 00:05:57,800
Instead, either make a couple of default options or let the listener choose their own.

107
00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,960
If it's a membership option, make every tier different from each other,

108
00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:03,920
so each one shows a visible change from the previous one.

109
00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,520
Make the benefits of each clear and obvious.

110
00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:10,760
Offer a free trial. Memberships can still be tricky for some listeners to understand,

111
00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:15,000
so a free trial, while still receiving the perk of the paid membership, is a great way to show

112
00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:19,800
why they'd want to upgrade and pay. Offer a personal message and be genuine about why you

113
00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:24,520
truly appreciate their support. And be sure to thank publicly where possible and give shouts

114
00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:29,400
on your podcast. Show that your audience and their support means something. Memberships and tips can

115
00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:33,080
be super effective when it comes to earning through your show. Listeners generally want to

116
00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:36,820
support their favourite creators and if they can do that monetarily, they will.

117
00:06:36,820 --> 00:06:39,860
Especially if you're super smart with the perks that come from being a member.

118
00:06:39,860 --> 00:06:43,180
And maybe offer exclusive perks from sponsors that you're working with for an

119
00:06:43,180 --> 00:06:46,980
all-round partnership bonus for both listener and sponsor. So for example,

120
00:06:46,980 --> 00:06:50,780
"Subscribe to Tier X and get a special limited edition item from this show's

121
00:06:50,780 --> 00:06:54,940
kind sponsors." The key thing to remember whether you're working with sponsors or

122
00:06:54,940 --> 00:06:58,340
more directly with tips and memberships is to always have your audience front

123
00:06:58,340 --> 00:07:01,700
and centre when it comes to what's on offer. It needs to make sense for them

124
00:07:01,700 --> 00:07:05,340
and benefit them, much like your content hopefully does.

125
00:07:05,340 --> 00:07:07,980
Get that right, and the size of your audience matters far less

126
00:07:07,980 --> 00:07:10,580
than if you were just going down the advertiser route.

127
00:07:10,580 --> 00:07:13,580
The opportunities are there, you just need to take them.