1 00:00:00,580 --> 00:00:02,080 Welcome to Small Town Big God. 2 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:06,879 My name is Mikel Collins, and I've got another story for you of God at work 3 00:00:06,890 --> 00:00:08,920 in Rutherford County, North Carolina. 4 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:11,350 Today, you're going to hear about a ministry that's 5 00:00:11,350 --> 00:00:13,360 called All Things All People. 6 00:00:13,750 --> 00:00:17,669 All Things All People is working to equip Christians to engage 7 00:00:17,670 --> 00:00:21,480 the darkest and the least reached people groups with the gospel. 8 00:00:21,939 --> 00:00:25,770 Now, this is a ministry that I am very connected with, which I will 9 00:00:25,770 --> 00:00:27,820 explain a little bit more about later. 10 00:00:28,405 --> 00:00:31,845 But it's a fascinating story because All Things All People 11 00:00:31,875 --> 00:00:33,775 did not start out as a ministry. 12 00:00:34,114 --> 00:00:37,985 The original idea was actually for a consulting company, and in just a 13 00:00:37,985 --> 00:00:42,144 second you're going to hear from Jeremy Jenkins, who is one of the pastors here 14 00:00:42,155 --> 00:00:46,254 at Element Church, where I work, and the founder of All Things All People. 15 00:00:46,305 --> 00:00:49,324 And he'll explain a little bit more about the original vision and some of 16 00:00:49,334 --> 00:00:53,464 the frustrations that he ran into, and We're also going to talk about a lot 17 00:00:53,464 --> 00:00:57,555 of the problems that churches here in Small Town Friendly especially have 18 00:00:57,555 --> 00:01:02,394 faced, and the importance of evangelism and discipleship in small towns, and 19 00:01:02,645 --> 00:01:07,114 how ATAP, which is what we call All Things All People, is going about it 20 00:01:07,164 --> 00:01:08,605 in a really awesome way. 21 00:01:08,605 --> 00:01:12,025 So without further ado, I'm going to let Jeremy introduce himself and tell 22 00:01:12,025 --> 00:01:14,355 you a little bit more about all of that. 23 00:01:15,414 --> 00:01:18,443 jeremy: i'm jeremy jenkins With all things all people. 24 00:01:18,444 --> 00:01:22,973 I am the executive director all things, all people, what we affectionately refer 25 00:01:22,973 --> 00:01:30,469 to as ATAP, started around 2019 and now, exists as its own nonprofit 501 26 00:01:30,469 --> 00:01:36,993 C3, we say that it exists to explore the darkest and least reached places 27 00:01:37,323 --> 00:01:39,023 to engage people with the gospel. 28 00:01:39,173 --> 00:01:43,223 that takes on a lot of different, methods strategies content and 29 00:01:43,243 --> 00:01:44,283 all sorts of things that we do. 30 00:01:44,693 --> 00:01:47,723 at the heart of it, it's, a ministry that operates with the conviction 31 00:01:47,943 --> 00:01:52,843 that not enough Christians, know about, or are engaging. 32 00:01:53,283 --> 00:01:58,023 the least reached and the least known, communities, especially 33 00:01:58,023 --> 00:02:00,873 here in the States, in the church. 34 00:02:00,943 --> 00:02:05,043 the church isn't sufficiently, engaging, the weirder and darker 35 00:02:05,073 --> 00:02:08,543 more openly non Christian communities in the States with the gospel. 36 00:02:08,753 --> 00:02:11,043 so, that's who I am at least today. 37 00:02:11,243 --> 00:02:12,453 that's, that's what we're doing today. 38 00:02:12,813 --> 00:02:17,203 Most of my friends, I should say, who also run ministries that either 39 00:02:17,243 --> 00:02:25,716 are global or like a big idea or ministries that have that trajectory 40 00:02:26,716 --> 00:02:32,316 that somebody wants them to be global or a big idea are almost always in bigger 41 00:02:32,316 --> 00:02:34,536 cities and bigger regions and areas. 42 00:02:34,846 --> 00:02:35,036 And 43 00:02:35,036 --> 00:02:35,416 for 44 00:02:35,426 --> 00:02:39,846 me, probably going along with the small town, big God idea. 45 00:02:40,186 --> 00:02:43,816 And just, really kind of spending, the last third of my life at 46 00:02:43,826 --> 00:02:46,736 Element functioning in that way. 47 00:02:48,076 --> 00:02:51,356 It became important to me early on that any success that we were going 48 00:02:51,356 --> 00:02:55,116 to have in any momentum that we were going to have with a tap was 49 00:02:55,116 --> 00:02:57,926 going to happen in the context of Forest city in Rutherford County. 50 00:02:58,386 --> 00:03:01,616 As opposed to building something for the sake of one day leaving, 51 00:03:01,676 --> 00:03:05,996 I think that's pertinent to the small town big God mindset. 52 00:03:06,346 --> 00:03:08,196 if I could draw a map back, I can't. 53 00:03:08,846 --> 00:03:14,776 Look at the chronology of ideas, but I would imagine that became important to 54 00:03:14,776 --> 00:03:19,286 me when we were doing the small time, big God series was the idea of like, 55 00:03:20,616 --> 00:03:21,766 I want to, I 56 00:03:21,766 --> 00:03:23,686 I feel called to do this big thing. 57 00:03:24,266 --> 00:03:26,996 not for my glory, but for God's. 58 00:03:27,096 --> 00:03:30,066 one thing we said to each other a lot back then was, can anything 59 00:03:30,066 --> 00:03:31,046 good come out of Forest city? 60 00:03:31,786 --> 00:03:35,816 And so, That was, that, that's still integral. 61 00:03:35,816 --> 00:03:39,406 Like, so when we do the fall lecture, we'll do the spring lecture again. 62 00:03:39,836 --> 00:03:44,186 if we ever have a conference or something like that, you know, it'll happen in and 63 00:03:44,186 --> 00:03:47,636 around Forest city as opposed to saying, we've reached a certain level of success. 64 00:03:47,636 --> 00:03:51,546 Let's go to Charlotte, or Atlanta that's built into the DNA of ATAP. 65 00:03:52,281 --> 00:03:56,881 Now I should be honest and tell you that this interview with Jeremy was recorded 66 00:03:57,151 --> 00:04:02,801 several months ago, back in February, I believe, because my original plan 67 00:04:02,811 --> 00:04:07,611 was for this to actually be the third episode of the Small Town Big God podcast. 68 00:04:08,211 --> 00:04:10,071 Obviously, my plans have changed. 69 00:04:10,616 --> 00:04:14,546 But I'm happy to tell you that Jeremy's have not, as of right now, 70 00:04:14,596 --> 00:04:19,836 we are only a few weeks away from ATAP's very first conference, which 71 00:04:19,836 --> 00:04:25,236 is set to take place right here in Florida City on October 26th, 2024. 72 00:04:25,656 --> 00:04:29,896 But before you go rush to sign up, let's continue the story 73 00:04:29,896 --> 00:04:32,236 of how ATAP got to this place. 74 00:04:32,407 --> 00:04:38,115 jeremy: So how long has Atap been in existence as a ministry. 75 00:04:39,345 --> 00:04:45,225 So, officially started, well, I, I guess I should say unofficially started. 76 00:04:45,225 --> 00:04:50,755 In 2019 and initially it was, not even a ministry and not 77 00:04:50,755 --> 00:04:51,825 even Christian in general. 78 00:04:51,825 --> 00:04:59,615 So I, for the last like 12 years, 13 years have, been studying, religions 79 00:04:59,655 --> 00:05:06,250 and world religions, and really felt The call that word calling is kind of 80 00:05:06,250 --> 00:05:10,380 overused in evangelical circles, but really like, I think that's probably 81 00:05:10,380 --> 00:05:15,890 the most appropriate word to use because you know, really all I could think about 82 00:05:15,910 --> 00:05:20,780 most days, even in the context of, my first, full time job, which would be, 83 00:05:20,840 --> 00:05:22,260 one of the pastors at element church. 84 00:05:23,690 --> 00:05:29,860 I was trying to figure out how I was going to factor in my passion 85 00:05:29,860 --> 00:05:35,170 and fascination for studying world religions and more so with philosophy 86 00:05:35,180 --> 00:05:37,380 into my ministry at Element. 87 00:05:37,660 --> 00:05:42,169 You understand as does anybody from a small town when you're a small 88 00:05:42,169 --> 00:05:45,019 town pastor, even at a contemporary church like element, there's not 89 00:05:45,019 --> 00:05:48,819 much need for, an aptitude for world religions, at least not seemingly. 90 00:05:49,219 --> 00:05:50,269 And that's how I felt. 91 00:05:51,024 --> 00:05:54,194 So I got the idea of well, who would need that? 92 00:05:54,524 --> 00:05:59,544 And I had this idea and I don't know that it was a bad one, but originally 93 00:05:59,584 --> 00:06:06,134 all things, all people started as an idea to offer consulting services on, 94 00:06:06,264 --> 00:06:08,244 intercultural studies to businesses. 95 00:06:08,634 --> 00:06:13,544 to either global businesses or, you know, businesses where there's some 96 00:06:13,544 --> 00:06:15,444 aspect of cross cultural communication. 97 00:06:15,904 --> 00:06:19,754 And so the idea was to provide that type of service. 98 00:06:20,094 --> 00:06:24,754 but not only was there not much traction for that but I also felt 99 00:06:24,804 --> 00:06:27,924 that wasn't scratching the same itch that I was trying to get to. 100 00:06:28,134 --> 00:06:29,754 It seemed very transactional. 101 00:06:29,764 --> 00:06:31,634 It seemed very much, stripped down. 102 00:06:31,794 --> 00:06:35,414 Then the other thing too was what I found was that I was really sanitizing 103 00:06:35,994 --> 00:06:40,984 my passion, which wasn't just to teach people about world religions. 104 00:06:41,094 --> 00:06:41,784 it was. 105 00:06:42,194 --> 00:06:47,414 to see those religions and the people in them Discussed in a way 106 00:06:47,414 --> 00:06:48,804 that pointed towards the gospel. 107 00:06:49,464 --> 00:06:53,694 So originally, ATAP begins as a secular business designed to help 108 00:06:53,754 --> 00:06:57,574 other businesses make more sales to people in different cultures. 109 00:06:58,544 --> 00:07:02,384 But like a lot of people who are working on something that they're not passionate 110 00:07:02,384 --> 00:07:04,714 about, Jeremy was getting frustrated. 111 00:07:05,284 --> 00:07:09,474 This business was a good idea, and Jeremy knew how to run it, but what he really 112 00:07:09,474 --> 00:07:11,784 wanted was to be talking about the gospel. 113 00:07:13,939 --> 00:07:18,989 And Eddie Nichols, who you should remember from episode one, helped Jeremy 114 00:07:18,999 --> 00:07:21,159 realize that something needed to change. 115 00:07:21,622 --> 00:07:25,922 jeremy: I was having a conversation with Our friend eddie nichols who's always kind 116 00:07:25,922 --> 00:07:28,052 of sort of served as a consultant now. 117 00:07:28,052 --> 00:07:34,187 He's on our board But I asked him, you know kind of I, I'm frustrated 118 00:07:34,577 --> 00:07:40,017 and don't really know how to introduce the idea that my faith is in this 119 00:07:40,027 --> 00:07:42,177 company, this ministry, this idea. 120 00:07:42,577 --> 00:07:44,227 And he just encouraged me to be myself. 121 00:07:44,227 --> 00:07:49,427 so I think it might've been January of 2020. 122 00:07:49,607 --> 00:07:54,107 right before COVID was hitting, I really began to turn towards discussing 123 00:07:54,107 --> 00:07:57,177 world religions from a Christian perspective, primarily on Instagram. 124 00:07:57,457 --> 00:08:00,937 we've been on Instagram for quite a long time now, I think really since 125 00:08:00,937 --> 00:08:07,097 2019 and then started creating content that really, Mike, there was very 126 00:08:07,097 --> 00:08:09,537 little aim initially, was really just. 127 00:08:10,197 --> 00:08:14,667 At first, just a creative outlet of like a basic edge, developing a basic education 128 00:08:14,667 --> 00:08:17,377 for Christians and world religions, and then just creating content and a 129 00:08:17,377 --> 00:08:21,447 lot of it initially was geared towards overseas, because the best footage 130 00:08:21,447 --> 00:08:24,607 pictures and stories were found overseas. 131 00:08:24,607 --> 00:08:28,227 And because I was traveling so much back then, it was really easy to go 132 00:08:28,227 --> 00:08:32,047 overseas and then come home and tell the stories of what I had experienced 133 00:08:32,047 --> 00:08:37,657 in South Asia or Central America or Europe or Africa and then to try and 134 00:08:37,657 --> 00:08:41,807 distill those down to something that. 135 00:08:42,222 --> 00:08:44,222 Educated Christians on world religions. 136 00:08:44,502 --> 00:08:46,052 And it was very academic. 137 00:08:46,102 --> 00:08:47,652 I think I had just come out of academia. 138 00:08:47,702 --> 00:08:51,572 With my master's degree it was very academic and took itself very seriously 139 00:08:51,782 --> 00:08:53,112 and it just didn't gain much footing. 140 00:08:53,162 --> 00:08:56,722 Even though I wasn't openly speaking about my faith, I was talking about 141 00:08:56,722 --> 00:08:58,972 world religions in a really general way. 142 00:08:59,802 --> 00:09:04,422 when you try and talk about something like that generally, you 143 00:09:04,422 --> 00:09:05,692 really don't appeal to anybody. 144 00:09:05,792 --> 00:09:07,632 You're not going to appeal to believers or non believers. 145 00:09:08,027 --> 00:09:10,427 And both are looking for a more critical lens. 146 00:09:10,447 --> 00:09:12,907 And so that started in 2019, probably within six months, which 147 00:09:12,907 --> 00:09:15,467 is kind of like, just doesn't seem like anything's happening here. 148 00:09:15,787 --> 00:09:18,487 And also felt kind of like, I don't really feel like this 149 00:09:18,487 --> 00:09:20,147 is what I had set out to do. 150 00:09:21,117 --> 00:09:24,987 So Jeremy changes things up, starts talking about world religions from a 151 00:09:25,017 --> 00:09:30,157 Christian lens, the way he wanted to, but is still keeping things too general 152 00:09:30,197 --> 00:09:31,977 to really gain much of a following. 153 00:09:31,977 --> 00:09:38,787 But then, everything stopped when COVID hits, and Jeremy realizes 154 00:09:38,787 --> 00:09:40,267 this could be a good opportunity. 155 00:09:41,218 --> 00:09:46,248 jeremy: During COVID, just like you, I listened to a ton of podcasts 156 00:09:46,298 --> 00:09:49,878 and I have always felt like, you know, I think I could do that. 157 00:09:49,958 --> 00:09:51,298 And I think I might enjoy that. 158 00:09:51,348 --> 00:09:55,558 And I told Courtney, my wife, all of these famous people are 159 00:09:55,558 --> 00:09:56,858 sitting at home, just like us. 160 00:09:56,888 --> 00:09:59,458 And everybody has learned how to use zoom. 161 00:10:00,208 --> 00:10:01,408 so I got the idea. 162 00:10:01,938 --> 00:10:05,278 to start a podcast and it really pivoted more towards Christian thought. 163 00:10:05,618 --> 00:10:09,398 It began to go more in the direction of Christian thinkers on this podcast. 164 00:10:09,398 --> 00:10:13,018 And so we started that, I mean, probably the first episode was 165 00:10:13,018 --> 00:10:16,063 probably like, March or April of 2020. 166 00:10:16,143 --> 00:10:19,493 for a year we did an episode a week and almost every single 167 00:10:19,493 --> 00:10:20,493 one of them were guests. 168 00:10:20,863 --> 00:10:22,533 And so we were doing a guest every single week. 169 00:10:22,533 --> 00:10:25,593 And a lot of them were pretty well known and it was a lot of fun. 170 00:10:25,793 --> 00:10:31,463 most of the people who follow us now in some form or fashion we owe that to the 171 00:10:31,473 --> 00:10:35,413 podcast a lot of the better friends that I have in the ministry world outside 172 00:10:35,413 --> 00:10:40,393 of element now, I found through that podcast, people like Felicia Mason 173 00:10:40,393 --> 00:10:46,023 Heimer, there's a large number of people that I still communicate with today or 174 00:10:46,023 --> 00:10:51,173 still are, friends of ATAP and actually are huge champions of the hyper focused 175 00:10:51,173 --> 00:10:55,983 mission that we have now that we met and bumped into when it was still just kind 176 00:10:55,983 --> 00:10:57,623 of like, Hey, we just have a podcast. 177 00:10:58,283 --> 00:11:03,313 By the middle of 2020, All Things All People is an established ministry 178 00:11:03,333 --> 00:11:08,673 with a website, an active social media presence, and a rapidly growing podcast. 179 00:11:09,253 --> 00:11:16,153 In fact, the pro the podcast was growing so quickly, and had become so successful, 180 00:11:16,523 --> 00:11:18,373 that it was kind of becoming a problem. 181 00:11:19,324 --> 00:11:21,304 jeremy: I remember being frustrated. 182 00:11:21,364 --> 00:11:26,617 Because the podcast had become so successful that people would come 183 00:11:26,617 --> 00:11:29,297 up to me and be like, you know, Hey, how's the podcast doing? 184 00:11:29,297 --> 00:11:32,217 And I'd be like, well, the podcast is good, but here's this, here's the bigger 185 00:11:32,217 --> 00:11:33,577 picture of what we're trying to do. 186 00:11:33,587 --> 00:11:34,977 And they were like, yeah, yeah, yeah. 187 00:11:34,977 --> 00:11:36,847 Who's, who's going to be on the episode next week. 188 00:11:36,957 --> 00:11:37,407 Right. 189 00:11:37,477 --> 00:11:41,484 Or like some people knew I had a list of, dream guests And I was pretty. 190 00:11:41,839 --> 00:11:44,849 I was pretty driven on how I would try and get guests. 191 00:11:45,219 --> 00:11:47,339 I had tried to get every single one of those people. 192 00:11:47,339 --> 00:11:48,869 some of them were going to happen, maybe they weren't. 193 00:11:48,869 --> 00:11:51,699 people would talk to me about the podcast and very rarely about, 194 00:11:51,919 --> 00:11:54,489 the teaching opportunities I was getting and things like that. 195 00:11:54,489 --> 00:11:55,389 And that was always frustrating. 196 00:11:55,409 --> 00:11:59,519 And that also kind of told me that, okay, we're a little bit off foot. 197 00:11:59,529 --> 00:12:04,599 Like success doesn't always mean we're on because we were beginning 198 00:12:04,599 --> 00:12:09,009 to get really successful, but it wasn't what I wanted to be doing. 199 00:12:09,269 --> 00:12:13,089 a lot of the following we have now, I don't think those people still follow us. 200 00:12:13,399 --> 00:12:16,069 because we had the podcast, however many years ago, but I think that a 201 00:12:16,069 --> 00:12:19,839 lot of times they started following and enjoyed what we were doing, the 202 00:12:19,839 --> 00:12:22,579 direction we were going in, even though we weren't podcasting as much anymore. 203 00:12:23,329 --> 00:12:26,309 The All Things All People podcast has changed quite a 204 00:12:26,309 --> 00:12:28,039 bit since those early days. 205 00:12:28,349 --> 00:12:31,079 It's no longer called the All Things All People podcast. 206 00:12:31,089 --> 00:12:36,239 It is now called Basecamp, and it's also being produced by yours truly. 207 00:12:36,239 --> 00:12:40,309 So I encourage you to go check it out if you enjoy podcasts and you want 208 00:12:40,309 --> 00:12:45,109 to hear Jeremy and I and other guests discuss topics related to evangelism 209 00:12:45,109 --> 00:12:46,739 and reaching people with the gospel. 210 00:12:47,159 --> 00:12:50,739 I'll make sure to put a link to that in the show description on this episode. 211 00:12:51,359 --> 00:12:52,869 But getting back to the story. 212 00:12:53,514 --> 00:12:59,054 As ATAP has changed over the years, Jeremy was running everything from 213 00:12:59,054 --> 00:13:04,254 his office in Element Church, which is where he and I are both still on staff. 214 00:13:04,254 --> 00:13:09,414 But it started to become apparent that ATAP really needed its own space. 215 00:13:10,275 --> 00:13:14,395 jeremy: A lot of people thought ATAP was my full time gig, but I, still to this 216 00:13:14,395 --> 00:13:15,845 day, don't make any money from ATAP. 217 00:13:16,395 --> 00:13:19,745 Element was my full time gig and Element was and is my main priority. 218 00:13:20,165 --> 00:13:25,155 but it was really hard for me to sit in this office and do both things mentally 219 00:13:25,305 --> 00:13:29,245 from a time constraint standpoint, from people coming in standpoint, I'm 220 00:13:29,245 --> 00:13:34,325 just kind of one where it's hard for me to, think element in a tap and then 221 00:13:34,325 --> 00:13:35,865 also the teaching stuff that I do. 222 00:13:36,415 --> 00:13:41,395 Without moving to different spaces and so real quick I Tried to find us an 223 00:13:41,405 --> 00:13:45,835 office, space in an old school building and we used that for a long time And 224 00:13:45,835 --> 00:13:50,105 then here lately we've been very slowly renovating well eventually I think will 225 00:13:50,105 --> 00:13:53,695 be a really nice office space Behind Hope House coffee, which is across 226 00:13:53,715 --> 00:13:56,835 the street from where we are now from what i've heard it was in one of the 227 00:13:56,845 --> 00:14:00,165 roughest sections of that building It had to have been the roughest section. 228 00:14:00,215 --> 00:14:01,905 So that building I'm sure J. 229 00:14:01,905 --> 00:14:02,195 R. 230 00:14:02,245 --> 00:14:07,435 told you, that building was in, a horrible state of disrepair and, a 231 00:14:07,435 --> 00:14:11,645 lot of brokenness was going on in that building, a lot of drug use and people 232 00:14:11,695 --> 00:14:12,965 who really had nowhere else to go. 233 00:14:13,735 --> 00:14:17,715 If you haven't listened to the first episode of this podcast, which covers 234 00:14:17,715 --> 00:14:21,725 the story of Hope House Coffee, this might be a little confusing. 235 00:14:22,135 --> 00:14:27,065 But the building that is now Hope House Coffee is located directly across the 236 00:14:27,065 --> 00:14:31,565 street from Element Church in Forest City, and before Element purchased 237 00:14:31,565 --> 00:14:36,185 the building and turned it into Hope House, it was a hub for a lot of 238 00:14:36,315 --> 00:14:42,385 drug use and other darkness, And the ATAP office is now located in one of 239 00:14:42,385 --> 00:14:44,725 the rooms behind Hope House Coffee. 240 00:14:45,717 --> 00:14:51,777 jeremy: interestingly enough, ATAP, finds itself in a room in that building where 241 00:14:51,977 --> 00:14:53,747 there was probably witchcraft happening. 242 00:14:54,037 --> 00:14:57,187 when you interact with a community of people who are defined by their 243 00:14:57,187 --> 00:15:01,937 substance abuse, it shouldn't surprise us that, they sort of appealed to some 244 00:15:01,937 --> 00:15:06,127 dark spiritual things and so we would find those things up in that that room 245 00:15:06,497 --> 00:15:11,897 and in Jr bore the brunt of that I was I was very rarely involved in a lot of 246 00:15:11,987 --> 00:15:13,237 things that had to do with that building. 247 00:15:13,857 --> 00:15:18,017 So When the idea was brought up that we would move the office to 248 00:15:18,017 --> 00:15:21,647 that space, it seemed appropriate that ATAP would find its way there. 249 00:15:21,697 --> 00:15:25,387 And perhaps that would serve, if anything else, just from a narrative standpoint 250 00:15:25,777 --> 00:15:28,227 as a redemptive thing for those rooms. 251 00:15:28,337 --> 00:15:32,297 It fits so perfectly with the short taglines of ATAP into the dark. 252 00:15:32,347 --> 00:15:32,567 Yeah. 253 00:15:32,567 --> 00:15:33,257 Quite literally. 254 00:15:33,437 --> 00:15:33,797 Yeah. 255 00:15:33,837 --> 00:15:34,077 Yeah. 256 00:15:34,077 --> 00:15:34,347 Yeah. 257 00:15:34,347 --> 00:15:37,450 And I mean, that's, what's funny is Even when we were doing the podcast 258 00:15:37,970 --> 00:15:44,480 and the fascination With what is now, a tap, before it had a label, it was 259 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:48,730 really this fascination, this passion about studying world religions. 260 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:50,760 And then really just trying to figure out how do we communicate 261 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:51,810 the gospel to these groups? 262 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:57,340 And I had a drawing towards, okay, who are Christians kind of scared of who 263 00:15:57,340 --> 00:16:02,170 are Christians weirded out by, and the idea of dark and light and there's this 264 00:16:02,210 --> 00:16:05,410 song by Hillsong United called Captain. 265 00:16:06,530 --> 00:16:10,080 And I was listening to this song when I was a student pastor All of 266 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:14,750 this fascination, this passion for studying religions was happening, but 267 00:16:14,750 --> 00:16:19,330 it felt so aimless and almost like an idol at times because it distracted 268 00:16:19,330 --> 00:16:23,980 me so much from what otherwise was a clear calling to pastoral ministry. 269 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:28,310 And I was listening to this song and the first line is through uncharted 270 00:16:28,330 --> 00:16:30,040 waters, my soul will embark. 271 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:35,475 I'll follow your voice, straight into the dark and I would and still do I 272 00:16:35,475 --> 00:16:37,865 would listen to that song on repeat and sometimes I would even Get through 273 00:16:37,865 --> 00:16:41,185 the first verse and go back and listen to it And I remember just being like 274 00:16:41,275 --> 00:16:50,560 that's what I want to do I want To frame a discussion of missions in evangelism 275 00:16:50,620 --> 00:16:56,180 and anthropology from the Christian perspective in a way that communicates. 276 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:58,890 We don't want to be afraid to go into dark places. 277 00:16:58,890 --> 00:17:02,540 I feel like a lot of times Christian mission and evangelism,, is a 278 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,990 exercise in risk assessment of like the idea of if something's too risky 279 00:17:05,990 --> 00:17:08,950 or if something's too burdensome or something's too scary, then there 280 00:17:08,950 --> 00:17:10,640 has to be a better way to do it. 281 00:17:11,150 --> 00:17:14,160 And sometimes I think that, especially in it, you know, not to suggest that 282 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,480 men are better at this than women, 85 percent of a tips following 283 00:17:17,500 --> 00:17:18,690 is actually made up of women. 284 00:17:18,700 --> 00:17:22,250 The most passionate people who follow us are women. 285 00:17:22,250 --> 00:17:25,420 And I think that's quite telling because I think what we found is that not enough 286 00:17:25,420 --> 00:17:29,420 Christian men and not enough Christians in general have that attitude of saying 287 00:17:29,750 --> 00:17:32,480 We want to be the ones that go forward. 288 00:17:32,500 --> 00:17:37,790 And when we see, a foothold, for darkness, a foothold for the enemy, 289 00:17:37,790 --> 00:17:42,840 we want to go towards that as opposed to waiting for it to come towards us. 290 00:17:43,110 --> 00:17:44,130 And so that's been. 291 00:17:44,270 --> 00:17:47,820 Defining rallying cry for us. 292 00:17:47,820 --> 00:17:49,400 It's on a lot of our merch for that reason. 293 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:51,250 It's actually not on a lot of our newer merch. 294 00:17:51,290 --> 00:17:52,790 Cause I figured out it's not a great rally. 295 00:17:52,810 --> 00:17:55,540 Like a lot of people don't know what all things, all people is 296 00:17:55,620 --> 00:17:57,160 they know what into the dark is. 297 00:17:57,290 --> 00:17:58,670 but it's a huge rallying cry for us. 298 00:17:58,670 --> 00:18:02,765 And it's sort of like, our way of defining, are we doing 299 00:18:02,765 --> 00:18:03,695 what we say we're going to do? 300 00:18:03,875 --> 00:18:06,775 Are we going into those places? 301 00:18:06,775 --> 00:18:10,865 that wasn't by design that our office would be a literal example 302 00:18:10,865 --> 00:18:11,825 of that, but it's fitting. 303 00:18:12,415 --> 00:18:17,505 Into the Dark is just one of ATAP's many rallying cries, but all of them 304 00:18:17,505 --> 00:18:21,265 are focused on the mission, if you go listen to the Base Camp podcast, 305 00:18:21,275 --> 00:18:25,575 you'll hear me begin every episode by stating the mission, which is, 306 00:18:25,795 --> 00:18:29,215 equipping Christians to engage the darkest places and least 307 00:18:29,215 --> 00:18:30,875 reached people with the gospel. 308 00:18:31,630 --> 00:18:35,260 When you hear that mission statement, it might bring to mind the image 309 00:18:35,260 --> 00:18:39,710 of a missionary on a boat in the middle of a river in Asia or some 310 00:18:39,710 --> 00:18:41,590 other far off corner of the world. 311 00:18:42,060 --> 00:18:46,770 But what a lot of us don't realize is just how many people of different religions are 312 00:18:46,770 --> 00:18:49,190 living right here in Small Town Friendly. 313 00:18:49,940 --> 00:18:51,540 But Jeremy's definitely noticed. 314 00:18:52,998 --> 00:18:55,638 jeremy: All the other small towns in the United States that are just like ours, 315 00:18:56,381 --> 00:19:00,111 probably the citizens there have fallen victim to the same things that our people 316 00:19:00,111 --> 00:19:06,651 have, which is to assume that the people you notice are the only people here. 317 00:19:07,181 --> 00:19:12,041 So right now, and really for the last, couple months, but especially this last 318 00:19:12,071 --> 00:19:17,641 month in January, 2024, all we've been talking about is what we call the engaged 319 00:19:17,641 --> 00:19:23,411 network, which is, Our way to partner with churches to engage the darkest and least 320 00:19:23,411 --> 00:19:25,301 reached places in their city and region. 321 00:19:25,821 --> 00:19:29,621 when I first came up with that idea, I was assuming that we would 322 00:19:29,631 --> 00:19:33,281 only be able to talk to churches in major metropolitan areas. 323 00:19:33,661 --> 00:19:37,461 I was talking to another one of our pastors here, Neil, and. 324 00:19:37,741 --> 00:19:40,821 You know, we were kind of talking about, well, you know, is that the case? 325 00:19:40,921 --> 00:19:41,511 and. 326 00:19:41,926 --> 00:19:46,696 And he was even asking me like, well, you know, there are people of 327 00:19:46,696 --> 00:19:48,056 other religions here, aren't there? 328 00:19:48,056 --> 00:19:51,736 Neil is the founding pastor at element and, he's been a 329 00:19:51,736 --> 00:19:53,566 friend of mine for 13 years. 330 00:19:53,686 --> 00:19:54,996 and a mentor on top of that. 331 00:19:55,946 --> 00:19:59,606 right before I founded tap, it was this half baked idea, you know, 332 00:19:59,606 --> 00:20:02,866 like I was saying, and, and we knew that at some point in time, 333 00:20:02,876 --> 00:20:07,326 it was probably going to include educating people on world religions. 334 00:20:07,576 --> 00:20:11,496 I was telling Neil about what would eventually become ATAP and getting his 335 00:20:11,496 --> 00:20:13,306 advice, and we were both excited about it. 336 00:20:13,766 --> 00:20:16,036 we were driving through the backroads of upstate South 337 00:20:16,036 --> 00:20:17,646 Carolina in, the middle of nowhere. 338 00:20:18,146 --> 00:20:20,966 All of a sudden Neil, points out the window slams on his 339 00:20:20,966 --> 00:20:24,386 brakes and goes to pull a u turn I'm like, what are you doing? 340 00:20:24,586 --> 00:20:28,316 we had been talking about Hindus and Muslims he pointed over 341 00:20:28,466 --> 00:20:31,586 at this gas station and he had seen this man wearing a turban. 342 00:20:32,136 --> 00:20:34,546 And he was just like, we're going to go talk to that guy right there. 343 00:20:34,666 --> 00:20:36,126 We're talking about these people. 344 00:20:36,126 --> 00:20:36,846 We're going to go talk to him. 345 00:20:36,996 --> 00:20:39,726 I was kind of like, this is very typical Neil Perry. 346 00:20:39,726 --> 00:20:40,736 He's very excitable. 347 00:20:40,736 --> 00:20:44,206 but what's interesting is like, you know, if he were sitting here in, 348 00:20:44,216 --> 00:20:48,796 in the topic was world religions, he wouldn't self admittedly, he wouldn't 349 00:20:48,806 --> 00:20:50,176 have a lot to offer the conversation. 350 00:20:50,176 --> 00:20:53,666 He doesn't really know that much about religions, but he's really well traveled. 351 00:20:53,666 --> 00:20:57,066 He's been on a thousand missions trips, so we pull up to this gas station get out 352 00:20:57,066 --> 00:20:58,266 of the car and he goes to pump his gas. 353 00:20:58,266 --> 00:20:59,486 He goes, Hey, go talk to that guy. 354 00:21:00,066 --> 00:21:02,986 I go over and start talking to him, and he's this older man, he's wearing 355 00:21:02,986 --> 00:21:07,596 the turban, right away, I knew he was probably Sikh, Sikhism, which it's 356 00:21:07,616 --> 00:21:13,976 pronounced sick in a lot of other places, especially in India, It is a religion 357 00:21:13,986 --> 00:21:18,246 that essentially, in a reductionist way, combines tenets of Hinduism and Islam, 358 00:21:18,706 --> 00:21:25,626 and it was founded in northwest India in a state called the Punjab, While the 359 00:21:25,626 --> 00:21:30,556 rest of India is overwhelmingly Hindu and has a strong number of Muslims in 360 00:21:30,556 --> 00:21:32,406 the Punjab, pretty much everybody's Sikh. 361 00:21:32,576 --> 00:21:36,886 so I walk up to this guy, we start talking, and I speak very broken Hindi. 362 00:21:37,296 --> 00:21:44,816 he spoke Punjabi and, I begin to figure out, okay, he's, he's visiting from the 363 00:21:44,816 --> 00:21:47,386 Punjab, likely this is his family's store. 364 00:21:47,576 --> 00:21:50,876 Well, so Neil walks up and joins the conversation I lean over 365 00:21:50,876 --> 00:21:53,766 to Neil and whisper he's Sikh. 366 00:21:55,336 --> 00:21:59,046 And Neil, I guess he just doesn't know what that was. 367 00:21:59,046 --> 00:22:00,406 He he's like, Oh, okay. 368 00:22:00,606 --> 00:22:01,406 You're sick. 369 00:22:02,396 --> 00:22:07,726 You're sick and I, I'm like, no man, no, no, no, he's not, he's not sick. 370 00:22:07,726 --> 00:22:08,286 He's sick. 371 00:22:08,296 --> 00:22:08,886 He's sick. 372 00:22:09,176 --> 00:22:10,456 And Neil kind of looks at me confused. 373 00:22:10,456 --> 00:22:11,956 He's like, yeah, he's okay. 374 00:22:11,956 --> 00:22:12,676 So you're sick. 375 00:22:12,856 --> 00:22:13,856 Can we pray for you? 376 00:22:14,446 --> 00:22:17,836 in South Asia, there's this gesture that you make a lot of times where 377 00:22:17,886 --> 00:22:20,916 when you're greeting somebody, you might gesture towards your chest. 378 00:22:21,266 --> 00:22:24,436 And it's almost hard to describe, but it's this upward gesture where you kind of 379 00:22:24,436 --> 00:22:26,086 like point to your heart and gesture up. 380 00:22:27,216 --> 00:22:33,136 Neil had seen me and this guy doing this and was like, is it your heart? 381 00:22:34,436 --> 00:22:39,466 the guy's son who runs the gas station walks out likely thinking, his dad's 382 00:22:39,466 --> 00:22:42,916 being harassed, which at this point, I'm not sure he wasn't, but, he walks out. 383 00:22:42,916 --> 00:22:46,696 And so I start talking to him and he, his, he explained, yeah, this is my dad. 384 00:22:46,756 --> 00:22:47,806 He doesn't really speak English. 385 00:22:47,806 --> 00:22:49,966 He's from the Punjab, but he's just visiting. 386 00:22:49,976 --> 00:22:51,516 I was like, oh, okay, that's great, Neil's like. 387 00:22:52,411 --> 00:22:53,311 There's something wrong with his heart. 388 00:22:53,541 --> 00:22:54,501 Can we pray for him? 389 00:22:55,891 --> 00:22:57,851 the son is just confused as all get out. 390 00:22:58,171 --> 00:22:59,571 And it's just like, yeah, sure. 391 00:22:59,571 --> 00:23:02,681 So Neil actually prays for this guy and praise that his heart would be healed. 392 00:23:03,971 --> 00:23:05,541 And I'm like furious, you know? 393 00:23:06,011 --> 00:23:07,731 so we just say our goodbyes and everything. 394 00:23:07,731 --> 00:23:10,791 We get back in the car and I'm halfway furious, halfway just 395 00:23:10,791 --> 00:23:12,691 dying, you know, in laughter. 396 00:23:12,701 --> 00:23:13,461 I'm like, you idiot. 397 00:23:13,611 --> 00:23:14,481 He's sick. 398 00:23:14,481 --> 00:23:15,501 And he was like, what do you mean? 399 00:23:16,201 --> 00:23:18,571 And I was like, it's a religion, and I explained it. 400 00:23:18,591 --> 00:23:19,391 He's like, Oh, I know. 401 00:23:19,391 --> 00:23:20,351 I had no idea, you know? 402 00:23:21,001 --> 00:23:24,251 And so for about a year or two, I would tell that joke and, you know, 403 00:23:24,251 --> 00:23:26,781 at element, we have a pretty, you know, we kind of rag on each other. 404 00:23:27,121 --> 00:23:29,611 and so I would tell that joke and oftentimes Neil would be the butt of 405 00:23:29,621 --> 00:23:33,571 the joke, you know, but what's funny is I was getting ready to tell that story. 406 00:23:33,986 --> 00:23:37,846 at a conference I was speaking at, and I don't know if it was the Lord or I 407 00:23:37,846 --> 00:23:40,476 don't know if it was just my common sense caught up with me, but I realized, 408 00:23:40,496 --> 00:23:44,226 if there's a good guy and a bad guy in that story, I'm not the good guy. 409 00:23:44,526 --> 00:23:51,206 I began to operate under the conviction that I was in the car talking to Neil 410 00:23:51,276 --> 00:23:57,406 about groups like Sikhs and Muslims and Hindus, but Neil was looking for them. 411 00:23:57,806 --> 00:24:04,146 And while Neil didn't know that much about Sikhs or maybe anything about them, 412 00:24:04,416 --> 00:24:08,366 he's the one who saw the guy and he's the one who pulled the U turn and he's 413 00:24:08,366 --> 00:24:09,836 the one who insisted we go talk to him. 414 00:24:10,056 --> 00:24:13,216 And he even prayed for him What better way to see the Holy Spirit move in 415 00:24:13,216 --> 00:24:17,326 somebody's life than to pray for their heart, So I began to kind of walk 416 00:24:17,326 --> 00:24:21,596 around saying okay, and this is fairly instrumental moment in ATAP Honestly, 417 00:24:21,866 --> 00:24:23,396 it's when I began to realize okay. 418 00:24:23,586 --> 00:24:28,586 It's not just enough to speak From an educated standpoint, these religious 419 00:24:28,586 --> 00:24:32,936 groups and the people in them, we also need to be looking for them and take 420 00:24:32,946 --> 00:24:35,276 action and go on mission when we see them. 421 00:24:35,576 --> 00:24:38,776 If anybody listened to this, especially if they're from Rutherford County, but 422 00:24:38,776 --> 00:24:41,646 even if they're not, if they're from the upstate of South Carolina, the 423 00:24:41,686 --> 00:24:47,246 area on the North and South Carolina border is not a metropolitan area where 424 00:24:47,256 --> 00:24:51,546 there's large populations of ethnic or religious minorities, but yet here, this 425 00:24:51,546 --> 00:24:53,076 man is sitting outside the gas station. 426 00:24:53,126 --> 00:24:54,226 so they're right down the street. 427 00:24:54,236 --> 00:24:54,906 They're here. 428 00:24:55,286 --> 00:24:56,696 and in all likelihood. 429 00:24:56,866 --> 00:25:00,016 however foolish we might have looked that day, we were probably the 430 00:25:00,026 --> 00:25:04,346 only non Indians who talked to that guy his whole time here because we 431 00:25:04,346 --> 00:25:08,036 just have a propensity to ignore people who aren't part of our tribe. 432 00:25:08,326 --> 00:25:09,176 Here in Rutherford County. 433 00:25:09,596 --> 00:25:11,936 I think we're like 80 percent white. 434 00:25:12,196 --> 00:25:13,306 10 percent black. 435 00:25:13,306 --> 00:25:17,926 5 percent Hispanic or Spanish speaking and then the rest is 1 percent Asian. 436 00:25:18,166 --> 00:25:22,376 there was a conglomerate of other, ethnic groups not that ethnic groups are always, 437 00:25:22,746 --> 00:25:25,846 an indicator of religious groups, but we can make some general assumptions 438 00:25:25,856 --> 00:25:27,996 about what those ethnic markers tell us 439 00:25:28,046 --> 00:25:32,096 The religiosity of Rutherford County is in a place like Rutherford County. 440 00:25:32,096 --> 00:25:36,836 We can assume that if it's 80 percent white that the overwhelming percentage of 441 00:25:36,836 --> 00:25:41,896 that is Likely Protestant, and that's not always the case but here in the Bible Belt 442 00:25:43,426 --> 00:25:47,256 they would probably recognize themselves as Protestant or at least Christian 443 00:25:48,296 --> 00:25:52,826 the same could be said for the african american community You grew up here. 444 00:25:52,996 --> 00:25:54,496 I've lived here for a long time. 445 00:25:54,496 --> 00:26:00,486 We know that overwhelmingly that that group is not devoted to a Christian faith. 446 00:26:00,496 --> 00:26:04,186 they recognize themselves as Christians, but they're really cultural Christians. 447 00:26:04,186 --> 00:26:05,006 then we look at. 448 00:26:05,721 --> 00:26:09,451 the Spanish speaking community, largely, we see a lot of similar 449 00:26:09,451 --> 00:26:13,581 things there, which is that there's a strong nominal, contingent there. 450 00:26:13,791 --> 00:26:15,901 A lot of them have come out of the Catholic church. 451 00:26:16,231 --> 00:26:19,301 and so we know that they're dealing with a lot of nominalism too. 452 00:26:19,711 --> 00:26:23,421 but then, you know, in Rutherford County, 1 percent Asian, well, Asian, of course, 453 00:26:23,421 --> 00:26:24,751 can mean a lot of different things. 454 00:26:24,831 --> 00:26:26,081 but in this county. 455 00:26:26,131 --> 00:26:29,621 most every convenience store and gas station, is owned or 456 00:26:29,621 --> 00:26:30,881 operated by a South Asian. 457 00:26:30,891 --> 00:26:33,571 Almost every single one of the independent motels and hotels 458 00:26:33,571 --> 00:26:34,601 are owned by South Asians. 459 00:26:34,911 --> 00:26:38,931 So what we're trying to convince people of and communicate in Rutherford 460 00:26:38,931 --> 00:26:42,371 County and in other places like it is that you walk around with the 461 00:26:42,371 --> 00:26:46,951 assumption that the majority is the entirety and that's not true. 462 00:26:47,301 --> 00:26:49,431 And push this one step further. 463 00:26:49,741 --> 00:26:52,781 The majority is not reached either. 464 00:26:52,826 --> 00:26:57,206 You know, and that's why, like what we've been doing here at 465 00:26:57,226 --> 00:27:00,556 element and with the network at other churches is we're developing 466 00:27:00,566 --> 00:27:02,806 missionaries to nominal Christians. 467 00:27:03,136 --> 00:27:06,646 even in small towns, when you say there are other religions, nominal 468 00:27:06,646 --> 00:27:09,616 Christianity, isn't another religion, but it is an unreached group. 469 00:27:09,916 --> 00:27:15,376 our focus has really made more room for that, I'm pretty, Comfortable talking 470 00:27:15,376 --> 00:27:19,246 to non Christians about their religious beliefs and about my religious beliefs, 471 00:27:19,246 --> 00:27:21,146 but we're really broadening a taps. 472 00:27:21,636 --> 00:27:28,916 Mission to include the majority of Christianized Americans who actually 473 00:27:28,916 --> 00:27:30,186 are not following Christ as Lord. 474 00:27:30,486 --> 00:27:35,236 even in Rutherford County and in small town places like it, there is an 475 00:27:35,276 --> 00:27:41,746 overwhelmingly unreached population that we need to develop mission strategy for. 476 00:27:42,946 --> 00:27:46,826 I want to take a moment to explain in a little bit more detail what 477 00:27:46,836 --> 00:27:48,526 Jeremy is talking about here, 478 00:27:48,726 --> 00:27:51,206 because there's a good chance that some of you listening might 479 00:27:51,206 --> 00:27:55,556 fall into this category of nominal Christian or cultural Christian. 480 00:27:56,546 --> 00:28:00,536 See, I'm sure you guys have noticed how in Rutherford County, we can't drive a mile 481 00:28:00,536 --> 00:28:02,906 down any road without passing a church. 482 00:28:03,006 --> 00:28:04,076 They're everywhere. 483 00:28:04,476 --> 00:28:07,116 If you grew up in small town friendly, it's likely that 484 00:28:07,116 --> 00:28:09,016 you grew up going to church. 485 00:28:09,476 --> 00:28:11,846 Going to church is part of our culture. 486 00:28:12,151 --> 00:28:14,591 It's just what the majority of people do. 487 00:28:15,121 --> 00:28:18,021 But going to church does not make you a Christian. 488 00:28:18,561 --> 00:28:23,641 And what we mean by a cultural Christian is someone who claims to be a Christian 489 00:28:23,961 --> 00:28:28,651 because they go to a Christian church or pray before they eat or something 490 00:28:28,651 --> 00:28:32,551 like that, but they're not actually following Christ with their life. 491 00:28:33,761 --> 00:28:37,481 Now, I have to be really careful here because I don't want you to hear this and 492 00:28:37,481 --> 00:28:41,341 think that I'm telling you that you're not doing enough to be a Christian. 493 00:28:41,411 --> 00:28:42,851 That is not it at all. 494 00:28:43,321 --> 00:28:47,281 What I'm saying is being a Christian is not about what you do. 495 00:28:47,651 --> 00:28:49,291 It's about where your heart is. 496 00:28:49,691 --> 00:28:51,601 It's about what you are focused on. 497 00:28:52,221 --> 00:28:55,931 Being a follower of Christ means giving Him our whole heart. 498 00:28:56,141 --> 00:28:59,871 About making Him Lord of your entire life. 499 00:29:00,183 --> 00:29:03,533 So that he is what you are seeking above everything else. 500 00:29:04,033 --> 00:29:08,423 And cultural Christianity is about going to church on Sundays so 501 00:29:08,423 --> 00:29:11,823 that you can justify the way you live every other day of the week. 502 00:29:12,653 --> 00:29:15,693 Now I promise that we're going to get back to our story in just a second, but 503 00:29:15,693 --> 00:29:19,823 I want to tell you that if you're not following Christ with everything that's 504 00:29:19,823 --> 00:29:25,293 in you, if you fall into that category of cultural Christian, you are missing out. 505 00:29:25,798 --> 00:29:29,228 Because there's nothing in this world that could ever bring as much 506 00:29:29,268 --> 00:29:33,958 joy and fulfillment and meaning to your life as following Christ 507 00:29:33,958 --> 00:29:35,258 with everything that you have. 508 00:29:36,288 --> 00:29:39,628 And if you are following Christ, make sure you're sharing that 509 00:29:39,628 --> 00:29:40,688 with the people around you. 510 00:29:40,948 --> 00:29:44,388 You don't want to be a person who finds the secret to happiness and then 511 00:29:44,398 --> 00:29:46,378 doesn't tell anyone about it, right? 512 00:29:47,178 --> 00:29:50,298 Now, I know I've been talking a lot and this podcast episode is supposed 513 00:29:50,298 --> 00:29:54,658 to be about ATAP, but ATAP ATAP is about sharing the gospel, so I 514 00:29:54,668 --> 00:29:58,298 don't think it's out of place for me to include this little section. 515 00:29:59,668 --> 00:30:01,728 Nonetheless, let's get back to Jeremy. 516 00:30:02,570 --> 00:30:03,578 jeremy: that, you know, 517 00:30:03,578 --> 00:30:07,609 For a long time, I've almost lived like two lives, you know, 518 00:30:07,609 --> 00:30:11,641 for four or five years where it's like you have element Jeremy. 519 00:30:11,981 --> 00:30:14,941 In Rutherford County, Jeremy, and then you have a tap, Jeremy, a tap. 520 00:30:14,941 --> 00:30:19,211 Jeremy is more typically found online or traveling to other parts of the 521 00:30:19,211 --> 00:30:23,051 world or in big cities, you know, where churches there feel like, Oh, we're 522 00:30:23,051 --> 00:30:24,581 surrounded by people of other religions. 523 00:30:25,341 --> 00:30:31,808 And for a long time, I, and, even other leadership at element had long 524 00:30:31,828 --> 00:30:36,088 pursued, well, how can we really harness The momentum that ATAP has. 525 00:30:36,088 --> 00:30:38,668 And then also just like how fun ATAP is and it's exciting. 526 00:30:38,668 --> 00:30:40,778 we talk about missions at ATAP, like it's really exciting. 527 00:30:41,178 --> 00:30:44,588 This next season with the engage network, which really is going to be the launching 528 00:30:44,588 --> 00:30:49,188 pad to see that happen is going to be awesome because we are going into churches 529 00:30:49,738 --> 00:30:56,018 and equipping them and developing, people group oriented mission teams to engage 530 00:30:56,398 --> 00:30:59,378 the least reached and darkest places in their city and region with the gospel. 531 00:30:59,378 --> 00:31:03,348 But we're starting with element and that's because element, is a partner of a tab. 532 00:31:03,348 --> 00:31:04,608 It's, it's our oldest partner. 533 00:31:05,088 --> 00:31:10,308 But, we, Element and ATAP, kind of partner officially in the Engage Network, 534 00:31:10,308 --> 00:31:14,768 which is to say that, ATAP and all of the resources, it's somewhat, it can be 535 00:31:14,778 --> 00:31:17,908 somewhat awkward to talk about because I'm both sides of this equation, but 536 00:31:17,908 --> 00:31:25,458 like ATAP is going to be used as a vessel for training and mobilization 537 00:31:25,488 --> 00:31:28,548 inside of element, because what we're doing with the engaged network is going 538 00:31:28,558 --> 00:31:34,548 into churches and providing demographic analysis and then providing, some coaching 539 00:31:34,608 --> 00:31:38,188 as the church sets goals for, okay. 540 00:31:38,598 --> 00:31:42,688 Who around us do we feel like we can begin to strategically reach? 541 00:31:42,708 --> 00:31:46,878 And then we raise up mission team leaders, who essentially are operating as 542 00:31:46,878 --> 00:31:51,038 missionaries towards those communities and then raising up a team to work with them. 543 00:31:51,048 --> 00:31:52,998 we're doing that very thing at element right now. 544 00:31:52,998 --> 00:31:57,168 at element we have, a team that's targeting nominal 545 00:31:57,168 --> 00:31:58,568 and de churched Christians. 546 00:31:58,838 --> 00:32:01,528 which, is, probably our biggest demographic in Rutherford County. 547 00:32:01,708 --> 00:32:04,728 Just people who say that they walked an aisle or say that they're Christian, but 548 00:32:04,728 --> 00:32:07,258 they don't have any fruit in their life. 549 00:32:07,258 --> 00:32:09,488 And, oftentimes they're just not following Christ as Lord. 550 00:32:10,014 --> 00:32:12,724 And then the D church, you know, like there, I don't think 551 00:32:12,724 --> 00:32:15,564 we've seen it quite as much in Rutherford County yet, but we will. 552 00:32:15,594 --> 00:32:19,764 Rutherford County is always five to 10 years behind the fads of the rest of 553 00:32:19,764 --> 00:32:20,934 the world and the rest of the country. 554 00:32:21,114 --> 00:32:25,484 So there is going to be a younger population who begins to use 555 00:32:25,484 --> 00:32:27,034 deconstruction type language. 556 00:32:27,284 --> 00:32:31,354 And then even the language that we see, coming out of the LGBTQ plus community 557 00:32:31,354 --> 00:32:32,754 where it's, the church has hurt me. 558 00:32:32,764 --> 00:32:36,164 Or I feel alienated by the church or I like what the church has to offer, 559 00:32:36,164 --> 00:32:37,934 but, I don't ever want to go back. 560 00:32:38,104 --> 00:32:40,454 so we have a team oriented towards that population. 561 00:32:40,694 --> 00:32:42,204 And just to pause. 562 00:32:42,214 --> 00:32:42,654 Yeah. 563 00:32:42,744 --> 00:32:43,474 I mean, there's. 564 00:32:44,089 --> 00:32:46,659 Decent chance probably that there's people that feel like that that 565 00:32:46,659 --> 00:32:49,099 are listening to this probably 566 00:32:51,539 --> 00:32:55,529 Well, so I would say what we're teaching and training our missionaries and mission 567 00:32:55,529 --> 00:33:00,029 team leaders to say is that Because a Christian has hurt us doesn't mean that 568 00:33:00,029 --> 00:33:05,499 Christ has hurt us oftentimes Christians are the worst Especially considering 569 00:33:05,529 --> 00:33:10,339 the high calling that we should be, orienting our lives in If you've been 570 00:33:10,409 --> 00:33:14,289 hurt by the church or you feel the church is a poor representative of Christ 571 00:33:14,919 --> 00:33:16,579 you're still looking for truth, right? 572 00:33:17,149 --> 00:33:24,129 And I don't think it's a worthy exercise because you've been hurt by, some 573 00:33:24,129 --> 00:33:28,089 particular dogma , or a representative of that dogma to then discount the dogma 574 00:33:28,089 --> 00:33:30,099 or the religion or the faith itself. 575 00:33:30,349 --> 00:33:36,459 And so what better way to, address the questions and the problems that you 576 00:33:36,459 --> 00:33:41,119 have, with the church, by simply talking to somebody who's a Christian and not 577 00:33:41,119 --> 00:33:44,309 necessarily by trying to attend a church. 578 00:33:44,369 --> 00:33:47,549 Even with this element, mission team, we're not trying to get people 579 00:33:47,549 --> 00:33:52,279 to come to element, we're trying to get people to follow Christ as Lord. 580 00:33:52,299 --> 00:33:55,269 And even if that means that they go somewhere else, or even if that means 581 00:33:55,269 --> 00:33:59,939 that there's a house church started, I don't think that somebody needs to 582 00:33:59,959 --> 00:34:02,349 accept my church to accept my Christ. 583 00:34:02,679 --> 00:34:07,049 And so I would encourage people to continue to look into the truth 584 00:34:07,409 --> 00:34:10,819 suggested by the teachings of Christ and his apostles and what we find in 585 00:34:10,819 --> 00:34:16,669 scripture and don't, you know, don't, don't feel as if you also have to accept 586 00:34:17,559 --> 00:34:21,789 element, you know, or, or whatever, you know, down the line, wrestling 587 00:34:21,789 --> 00:34:24,299 with those things will come into play. 588 00:34:24,539 --> 00:34:28,369 the missional effort we're going forward with, with, with, a tap and then what 589 00:34:28,369 --> 00:34:31,619 we're doing in partnership with element, it's not a church growth strategy. 590 00:34:31,709 --> 00:34:34,609 It's, it's not like, well, that happened to you at that other church 591 00:34:34,609 --> 00:34:35,909 that won't happen to you at element. 592 00:34:35,969 --> 00:34:37,429 It's just well, I'd like to think that it won't. 593 00:34:37,594 --> 00:34:40,264 You know, whatever that church is, I like to think that it won't, 594 00:34:40,264 --> 00:34:41,504 but that's not my selling point. 595 00:34:41,544 --> 00:34:43,214 My selling point has nothing to do with element. 596 00:34:43,704 --> 00:34:47,094 and you know, we say to element all the time, we don't want God to make 597 00:34:47,094 --> 00:34:48,904 the name of element famous, right? 598 00:34:48,904 --> 00:34:50,244 We want to make his name famous. 599 00:34:50,704 --> 00:34:53,654 so even as I'm talking to other churches and we've been privileged 600 00:34:53,704 --> 00:34:57,814 to really, talk to some big churches, And some well known churches. 601 00:34:57,814 --> 00:35:00,704 And we're on the precipice of, seeing some of those churches join the network. 602 00:35:00,704 --> 00:35:04,314 I've been clear, like, Hey, some of these people might not ever come to your church. 603 00:35:04,364 --> 00:35:05,244 They might accept Christ. 604 00:35:05,254 --> 00:35:07,234 They might join a disciple making group. 605 00:35:07,244 --> 00:35:08,884 They might be part of a house church. 606 00:35:09,164 --> 00:35:11,394 They might even become a great evangelist in your area. 607 00:35:11,434 --> 00:35:12,844 And they might not know. 608 00:35:13,809 --> 00:35:17,589 they were ever associated with your church, when we do that we re 609 00:35:17,589 --> 00:35:20,649 establish some of that credibility that Some people feel we've lost 610 00:35:20,649 --> 00:35:25,269 as christians when we don't tie our success to church attendance going up? 611 00:35:26,279 --> 00:35:29,659 And so yeah with that nominal and d church team, that's kind of the heart behind it. 612 00:35:30,499 --> 00:35:33,839 I didn't interrupt earlier because I thought it would be better to let Jeremy 613 00:35:33,849 --> 00:35:38,409 finish his point, but he mentioned something just a minute ago that I think 614 00:35:38,459 --> 00:35:42,779 needs to be our repeat moment for this episode, and maybe you've already guessed 615 00:35:42,779 --> 00:35:46,999 what it is, but here it is again, so just in case you missed it the first time. 616 00:35:47,621 --> 00:35:52,451 jeremy: I don't think that somebody needs to accept my church to accept my Christ. 617 00:35:53,034 --> 00:35:56,724 With all of the churches that we have here in Small Town Friendly, it can sometimes 618 00:35:56,724 --> 00:36:01,964 create this mindset of competition between different churches, as if we're not all 619 00:36:01,984 --> 00:36:04,224 trying to be more like the same guy. 620 00:36:05,034 --> 00:36:07,764 And if you're a Christian, hopefully you have a church that you're a part of, 621 00:36:07,814 --> 00:36:12,264 but also, hopefully, you're working to share the love of Christ with people, 622 00:36:12,524 --> 00:36:14,274 not just the love of your church. 623 00:36:15,478 --> 00:36:19,178 Just imagine what small town friendly would look like if all of these 624 00:36:19,208 --> 00:36:23,718 churches that we have all over the place were to work together 625 00:36:23,778 --> 00:36:25,708 to serve the people of our county. 626 00:36:26,458 --> 00:36:29,258 A three fold cord is not easily broken, right? 627 00:36:29,358 --> 00:36:31,868 And we can do a lot more together than we can apart. 628 00:36:32,418 --> 00:36:37,003 So I think it's important that we remember that People don't have to 629 00:36:37,003 --> 00:36:39,763 accept our church to accept Christ. 630 00:36:40,083 --> 00:36:43,193 There's a lot of fantastic churches all over this county. 631 00:36:43,213 --> 00:36:46,833 And just because somebody doesn't go to yours specifically does not mean 632 00:36:46,833 --> 00:36:48,433 that they're not following Christ. 633 00:36:49,393 --> 00:36:50,923 I love the Jeremy brought this up 634 00:36:51,223 --> 00:36:53,623 Because I think it's really important for us all to hear. 635 00:36:53,623 --> 00:36:56,473 And that's one of the things that I love about ATAP, yes, it's very 636 00:36:56,473 --> 00:37:01,223 connected to Element because Jeremy is on staff here, but the goal is 637 00:37:01,223 --> 00:37:03,513 not for them to promote Element. 638 00:37:04,073 --> 00:37:08,483 ATAP is working to share the gospel, not just with nominal and cultural Christians, 639 00:37:08,483 --> 00:37:10,363 But with tons of different groups of people, 640 00:37:10,413 --> 00:37:13,843 And at these engaged gatherings that you heard Jeremy mention earlier, 641 00:37:14,173 --> 00:37:17,513 they've put together different teams for each of these different groups. 642 00:37:18,726 --> 00:37:23,196 jeremy: And then with that too, we are raising up a team, of Spanish speakers 643 00:37:23,196 --> 00:37:27,996 to engage, what probably is a similar religious, demographic but oriented 644 00:37:27,996 --> 00:37:29,546 towards the Spanish speaking community. 645 00:37:29,796 --> 00:37:36,556 and then we have a team, that is focusing on, spiritual agnostics and neo pagans. 646 00:37:36,646 --> 00:37:40,946 in Rutherford County, I've seen personally that we are seeing a little bit of 647 00:37:40,956 --> 00:37:44,926 what's very prevalent in Asheville making its way down here, sometimes 648 00:37:44,926 --> 00:37:47,496 called new age or metaphysical, belief. 649 00:37:47,496 --> 00:37:49,156 like, spiritualism in general. 650 00:37:49,156 --> 00:37:52,576 it's very hard to classify because it can really involve any number of 651 00:37:52,576 --> 00:37:56,356 things, but without saying any names like we've had a number of shops open 652 00:37:56,356 --> 00:37:59,866 up in Rutherford County that are geared towards that community, which is a great 653 00:38:00,356 --> 00:38:02,156 sign that those people are present. 654 00:38:02,606 --> 00:38:07,306 And then with that label that I referenced as well, spiritual agnostics, you and 655 00:38:07,306 --> 00:38:12,746 I've had plenty of conversations where The realization that most non Christians are 656 00:38:12,746 --> 00:38:15,526 not atheists is an important one to make. 657 00:38:15,576 --> 00:38:18,736 And even within the fastest growing religious category in the 658 00:38:18,736 --> 00:38:20,766 United States, the religious nuns 659 00:38:23,506 --> 00:38:24,726 n O N E S. 660 00:38:24,726 --> 00:38:25,416 Yeah, nuns. 661 00:38:25,416 --> 00:38:28,156 They don't, they have, they, under religion, they put none. 662 00:38:28,706 --> 00:38:32,466 the, the smallest group in that category is atheists. 663 00:38:32,516 --> 00:38:36,276 most classify themselves as spiritual, but not religious. 664 00:38:36,276 --> 00:38:39,156 And so, so we have a, we have a large. 665 00:38:39,751 --> 00:38:40,341 Growing. 666 00:38:40,341 --> 00:38:44,191 I don't know if it's large yet because it's almost impossible group to count. 667 00:38:44,811 --> 00:38:49,281 But, we have a large, population in Rutherford County of that demographic. 668 00:38:49,281 --> 00:38:51,471 And then that group trends very young. 669 00:38:51,711 --> 00:38:55,791 As we see more young people staying in Rutherford County, which is great, 670 00:38:55,911 --> 00:38:58,841 like, you know, for a long time, people in Rutherford County, like, you know, 671 00:38:58,841 --> 00:39:00,091 nobody ever stayed in Rutherford County. 672 00:39:00,091 --> 00:39:01,861 It was like, you leave as soon as you can. 673 00:39:02,101 --> 00:39:06,061 We have a large number of, or we have a growing, youth population and a 674 00:39:06,061 --> 00:39:09,121 lot of those people, yeah, they don't like religion and they don't like 675 00:39:09,311 --> 00:39:12,051 the church and they don't like dogma. 676 00:39:12,291 --> 00:39:16,211 Instead of just turning to a neutral stance, they have taken 677 00:39:16,231 --> 00:39:18,861 on quite a few spiritual beliefs. 678 00:39:18,901 --> 00:39:22,151 a lot of people in this demographic believe in, karma. 679 00:39:22,191 --> 00:39:22,871 an afterlife. 680 00:39:22,901 --> 00:39:24,401 They believe in angels or demons. 681 00:39:24,431 --> 00:39:25,801 They believe in spiritual figures. 682 00:39:26,171 --> 00:39:30,341 You know, they, they believe in impersonal spiritual powers, things like crystals 683 00:39:30,361 --> 00:39:34,981 that they'll participate, in any number of spiritual practices, you know, examples 684 00:39:34,981 --> 00:39:38,831 like tarot cards, or like you said, palm readings, we've seen, you know, 685 00:39:39,511 --> 00:39:43,654 astrology, astrological signs, grow in popularity, things like zodiac, and, 686 00:39:43,654 --> 00:39:48,821 and, and, you know, Every single one of these things, even proponents of them 687 00:39:48,821 --> 00:39:53,621 might say, well, that's not religious and that's not hardly even spiritual. 688 00:39:53,671 --> 00:39:57,981 With that particular demographic, there is a great divide between 689 00:39:58,161 --> 00:40:01,421 religion and spirituality. 690 00:40:01,541 --> 00:40:07,771 And one has the connotation of systematized and organized in the 691 00:40:07,771 --> 00:40:10,211 case of religion and spiritual is. 692 00:40:10,651 --> 00:40:14,761 Individualized and so I wouldn't consider it religious. 693 00:40:15,291 --> 00:40:18,691 but I would consider it Trending towards spiritual now. 694 00:40:18,701 --> 00:40:22,866 I mean some people read the horoscopes the same reason they read Twitter, you 695 00:40:22,866 --> 00:40:26,056 know, just for entertainment, but some people take it quite seriously in the, 696 00:40:26,056 --> 00:40:30,046 in the, in you'll, especially, you know, I, I'm on social media, my Instagram, 697 00:40:30,116 --> 00:40:34,116 I have stuff sent to me all the time of people who take what they read in 698 00:40:34,116 --> 00:40:39,386 their, not so much their horoscopes, but like almost like, well, my astrological 699 00:40:39,386 --> 00:40:41,236 sign tells me a lot about myself. 700 00:40:42,296 --> 00:40:45,816 And when we begin, the reason why it's, Something to be taken seriously 701 00:40:45,816 --> 00:40:51,256 from a spiritual standpoint is when we talk about the self, we begin to 702 00:40:51,256 --> 00:40:54,286 talk about something that's spiritual, whether we want to say it is or not. 703 00:40:54,656 --> 00:40:59,696 And so when you meet somebody who says, Oh, well, I'm a cancer or I'm a Gemini. 704 00:40:59,816 --> 00:41:01,706 So this is true about me. 705 00:41:01,726 --> 00:41:02,136 Oh, okay. 706 00:41:02,136 --> 00:41:04,716 So we're talking about what's true about ourselves now. 707 00:41:04,986 --> 00:41:09,076 Well, we're beginning to embark upon things that I believe. 708 00:41:10,321 --> 00:41:11,181 Are spiritual. 709 00:41:11,401 --> 00:41:16,191 And what's true about me, is that I'm made in the image of God and 710 00:41:16,191 --> 00:41:17,901 that I'm not a purely physical being. 711 00:41:18,421 --> 00:41:20,761 that's the other thing that's so interesting about this demographic is 712 00:41:20,761 --> 00:41:24,051 that they would agree with the fact that we're not a purely physical being. 713 00:41:24,441 --> 00:41:28,221 when we begin to see that Venn diagram overlap, we might not call 714 00:41:28,221 --> 00:41:31,601 all the same things religious or spiritual, and they might trivialize 715 00:41:31,611 --> 00:41:34,861 some things that we take quite seriously, but at the end of the day. 716 00:41:34,921 --> 00:41:40,121 The Venn diagram overlaps in a lot of places, and we're trying to engage those 717 00:41:40,141 --> 00:41:41,491 people with the conversation about faith. 718 00:41:41,651 --> 00:41:43,931 If I talk to somebody who takes their Zodiac signs quite 719 00:41:43,931 --> 00:41:48,466 seriously, I'm certainly not going to, Condemn them for that. 720 00:41:48,496 --> 00:41:53,766 I, in fact, I don't, I don't really care about the Zodiac sign. 721 00:41:53,976 --> 00:41:57,156 What I want to do is find out, well, what do you believe about that? 722 00:41:57,866 --> 00:41:59,326 really get to the core motivation. 723 00:41:59,336 --> 00:42:03,576 Cause what I think is probably happening is that we have a generation and 724 00:42:03,576 --> 00:42:08,166 generations before it, Of people who askew religion, but are still looking 725 00:42:08,166 --> 00:42:12,326 for what religion provides, which is a framework to understand reality, what 726 00:42:12,326 --> 00:42:13,856 we might other times call a worldview. 727 00:42:14,296 --> 00:42:19,726 And so when you hear someone say, well, this is what my sign says about 728 00:42:19,726 --> 00:42:22,766 me, or this is what this crystal does, 729 00:42:22,836 --> 00:42:24,746 Herb incense does. 730 00:42:25,106 --> 00:42:26,756 I don't look at that demographic. 731 00:42:26,756 --> 00:42:27,836 It's like, Oh, you're weird. 732 00:42:27,836 --> 00:42:30,846 I go, Oh, you have the same core motivations that I do. 733 00:42:31,336 --> 00:42:33,516 I just feel like you're looking in the wrong places. 734 00:42:33,516 --> 00:42:35,286 And I think there are better places to look. 735 00:42:35,616 --> 00:42:39,016 And those places are just as spiritual. 736 00:42:39,361 --> 00:42:41,661 and I think it's an important, like, I'm more, that's kind of one thing 737 00:42:41,661 --> 00:42:46,081 I'm working on is like even myself and then hopefully in turn be able 738 00:42:46,081 --> 00:42:47,911 to really help Christians with it. 739 00:42:47,911 --> 00:42:51,841 It's like learning how to talk to that group in a way that 740 00:42:51,871 --> 00:42:55,241 indicates to them, Hey, we have a lot of things in common, right? 741 00:42:55,741 --> 00:42:58,101 we have so much more in common with each other than we actually 742 00:42:58,101 --> 00:42:59,231 do with some other groups. 743 00:42:59,511 --> 00:43:01,881 you believe in a rich and vibrant spiritual world. 744 00:43:02,986 --> 00:43:07,266 And I believe in that same rich and vibrant spiritual world, but I believe you 745 00:43:07,266 --> 00:43:10,376 are appealing to the wrong parts of it. 746 00:43:10,426 --> 00:43:14,186 those parts of it want nothing more than your destruction. 747 00:43:14,216 --> 00:43:18,396 And I know that sounds like an overreaction to some, but that's what my. 748 00:43:18,756 --> 00:43:20,506 core belief is about that spiritual world. 749 00:43:21,626 --> 00:43:25,816 Okay, maybe you didn't notice but we did get off topic there a little bit. 750 00:43:25,936 --> 00:43:29,066 This is supposed to be an episode about how ATAP got started and what 751 00:43:29,066 --> 00:43:30,746 they're doing in Small Town Friendly. 752 00:43:31,121 --> 00:43:34,981 But you just heard a lot about what's going on with the younger generation 753 00:43:34,991 --> 00:43:39,581 of spiritual nones and neo pagans and how we can engage them with the gospel. 754 00:43:40,161 --> 00:43:43,481 But that section, I left it in because it's a great example of 755 00:43:43,481 --> 00:43:45,631 what the ministry of ATAP is like. 756 00:43:46,101 --> 00:43:51,221 Everything that they do, every blog post, every podcast, episode, book, or 757 00:43:51,221 --> 00:43:56,271 resource that ATAP creates is trying to educate Christians on how to engage 758 00:43:56,291 --> 00:43:58,551 a particular group with the gospel. 759 00:43:58,551 --> 00:44:03,571 So, So if you enjoyed hearing Jeremy talk about engaging spiritual nones and neo 760 00:44:03,571 --> 00:44:08,401 pagans with the gospel, I highly encourage you to go listen to the Base Camp podcast. 761 00:44:08,841 --> 00:44:12,661 Not yet, though, because we still have to hear some of the other things ATAP's 762 00:44:12,961 --> 00:44:14,681 doing right here in our hometown. 763 00:44:15,359 --> 00:44:19,099 jeremy: I operate with the conviction that every church should, be reaching 764 00:44:19,109 --> 00:44:20,699 what we call the shadow of the steeple. 765 00:44:20,899 --> 00:44:24,909 every church should have a team of people focused primarily on the 766 00:44:24,909 --> 00:44:26,629 people in their geographic region. 767 00:44:26,639 --> 00:44:29,969 Like for us, it's Alexander mills here in Forest city. 768 00:44:30,699 --> 00:44:31,459 So that's what we're doing. 769 00:44:31,469 --> 00:44:36,019 And then with that, along with, investing heavily in those mission team leaders who 770 00:44:36,019 --> 00:44:38,979 are over those teams, we're doing things like what you mentioned, the engaged 771 00:44:38,979 --> 00:44:43,089 network, which is a monthly gathering where the community of people who have 772 00:44:43,099 --> 00:44:48,099 banded around this stateside mission strategy, get together for fellowship. 773 00:44:48,464 --> 00:44:52,344 Prayer, teaching and training and then goal setting, Hey, how are we 774 00:44:52,344 --> 00:44:53,424 going to get after it this month? 775 00:44:53,694 --> 00:44:56,844 how do I feel called and compelled to go on mission this month? 776 00:44:56,894 --> 00:44:58,424 and so we do that every month. 777 00:44:58,524 --> 00:45:01,784 start by, doing the debrief, Hey, how did the last month go? 778 00:45:02,554 --> 00:45:05,284 And then digging back into teaching training fellowship 779 00:45:05,754 --> 00:45:07,534 and, setting goals for the next. 780 00:45:07,554 --> 00:45:09,600 And so, that's how it's playing out in the life of element. 781 00:45:09,650 --> 00:45:14,360 one thing I mentioned to you, it's important to me that any momentum, 782 00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:19,150 any progress, any exciting things that happens at ATAP happens 783 00:45:19,150 --> 00:45:20,210 in the context of Forest city. 784 00:45:20,510 --> 00:45:25,020 this is, you know, I've lived here for 13 years and then four years before that. 785 00:45:25,340 --> 00:45:28,360 I was here quite often because my now wife grew up here. 786 00:45:28,730 --> 00:45:31,810 Forest city in Rutherford County has been a part of my life for almost 20 years. 787 00:45:31,940 --> 00:45:35,890 coming out of the nineties and early two thousands, which is really when I started 788 00:45:36,030 --> 00:45:41,060 coming here in the early two thousands, the place had very little going for it. 789 00:45:41,060 --> 00:45:42,120 All the mills had left. 790 00:45:42,970 --> 00:45:44,180 population was dwindling. 791 00:45:44,590 --> 00:45:46,980 now you go downtown Forest city and you can't get a 792 00:45:46,980 --> 00:45:48,310 parking spot on a Friday night. 793 00:45:48,750 --> 00:45:51,790 Back then you'd go downtown Forest city and there was nothing there, 794 00:45:51,820 --> 00:45:53,270 And so it felt very hopeless. 795 00:45:53,340 --> 00:45:55,810 and so now, not only do we see. 796 00:45:56,070 --> 00:45:58,810 from a civic standpoint that things are bouncing back. 797 00:45:59,220 --> 00:46:03,710 but I think part of the heart of, small town, big God, which has been our rallying 798 00:46:03,710 --> 00:46:09,190 cry for a long time, is, if Hope House coffee or element or a tap or, whoever 799 00:46:09,190 --> 00:46:10,850 else it might be, there's so many. 800 00:46:11,310 --> 00:46:15,280 little spinoffs out of the life of element even that have 801 00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:16,910 achieved some level of success. 802 00:46:16,910 --> 00:46:19,800 Like the natural thing is that if a tap was going to become really 803 00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:23,600 successful, that it would one day move to Charlotte or move to Asheville 804 00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:25,180 or move to Atlanta or Greenville. 805 00:46:25,620 --> 00:46:31,540 And we're just intent on not doing that and not for any reason other than we do 806 00:46:31,540 --> 00:46:34,120 think something great can happen for city. 807 00:46:34,140 --> 00:46:41,890 And I take a lot of pride in, Providing for a place that can 808 00:46:41,890 --> 00:46:46,300 sometimes feel like to do anything good, we have to go somewhere else. 809 00:46:46,490 --> 00:46:49,890 For instance, any chance I get, I'll go to an academic lecture or a 810 00:46:49,890 --> 00:46:52,270 conference or, hear somebody speak. 811 00:46:52,410 --> 00:46:54,850 Well, I always have to drive an hour to do those things. 812 00:46:55,190 --> 00:46:59,460 In the past, I would get frustrated because I'd be like, why is, it was 813 00:46:59,460 --> 00:47:01,920 almost like hard to get people to go with me sometimes because it was just 814 00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:03,260 like, well, why would I go do that? 815 00:47:03,260 --> 00:47:06,140 Why would you go sit and just listen to somebody talk about this for an hour? 816 00:47:06,140 --> 00:47:07,350 I was like, no, it's actually a great time. 817 00:47:07,620 --> 00:47:08,460 You should come experience it. 818 00:47:08,460 --> 00:47:11,650 I realized kids here never grew up getting to do those kinds of things 819 00:47:11,650 --> 00:47:14,230 because That was big city stuff. 820 00:47:14,350 --> 00:47:17,700 And so like I'm intent upon bringing scholars here. 821 00:47:18,100 --> 00:47:21,450 a few months ago we had, Joe Modamali come and speak. 822 00:47:21,450 --> 00:47:23,920 that was a big deal for me because it was just like, okay, so here's 823 00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:27,010 this world class New Testament theologian coming to teach us. 824 00:47:28,060 --> 00:47:31,840 Coffee and standing in this coffee shop that used to be just a busted up 825 00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:33,680 laundromat where people sold drugs. 826 00:47:33,700 --> 00:47:35,940 And it was right across the street from element church and a few 827 00:47:35,940 --> 00:47:37,360 steps away from the ATAP office. 828 00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:40,900 we are trying to engage people all over the country and all over the world. 829 00:47:40,900 --> 00:47:44,200 through churches one of the core things is that we want this to 830 00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:45,640 benefit small town friendly. 831 00:47:45,930 --> 00:47:51,850 if ATAP goes to where I think it's going to go, in a conversation about missions 832 00:47:51,850 --> 00:47:56,250 and evangelism reaching the darkest places in the States, ATAP will come up in 833 00:47:56,250 --> 00:47:58,050 conversation amongst Christians one day. 834 00:47:58,470 --> 00:48:04,690 I want them to know it's in Forest city and in the same way that like, when I 835 00:48:04,700 --> 00:48:09,685 think of, you know, Bethel or something like that, I didn't know what Redding, 836 00:48:09,685 --> 00:48:14,075 California was Until I knew what Bethel was I don't know if Redding's a big 837 00:48:14,085 --> 00:48:16,915 town or a small town and I could say that about a lot of things so we feel 838 00:48:16,915 --> 00:48:20,335 strongly that not only do we want to engage rutherford county with the gospel 839 00:48:20,335 --> 00:48:23,785 We also want to be something rutherford county can be proud of especially the 840 00:48:23,785 --> 00:48:27,105 christians in rutherford county maybe one day we could have moved to Charlotte or 841 00:48:27,105 --> 00:48:31,145 Atlanta and had a lot better networking opportunities and a lot more money thrown 842 00:48:31,145 --> 00:48:37,005 our way and a lot more opportunities to do our mission more effectively, 843 00:48:37,255 --> 00:48:41,115 While those communities are here, it's easier to find them in big cities. 844 00:48:41,455 --> 00:48:44,765 Um, but we just feel, we just feel married to Rutherford County. 845 00:48:44,805 --> 00:48:47,435 we feel really intent that God does want to do something big here. 846 00:48:47,755 --> 00:48:52,525 in a small town and something big, not just for here, but something that could 847 00:48:52,525 --> 00:48:57,865 go all over the world can start in a place that, just a few years ago was only a 848 00:48:57,865 --> 00:49:01,595 few steps from being wiped off the map, I think all of us feel pretty strongly. 849 00:49:01,595 --> 00:49:02,405 It's like, no, we're here. 850 00:49:02,405 --> 00:49:02,975 No matter what. 851 00:49:03,445 --> 00:49:03,665 Yeah. 852 00:49:03,665 --> 00:49:04,245 ATAP's here to stay. 853 00:49:04,255 --> 00:49:05,175 Elements here to stay. 854 00:49:05,565 --> 00:49:07,165 Hope House Coffee, you know, all of those. 855 00:49:07,365 --> 00:49:10,455 I remember I was sitting around the street corner in downtown Port City, 856 00:49:10,475 --> 00:49:13,225 doing the Christmas lights a few years ago, and somebody came walking 857 00:49:13,225 --> 00:49:17,440 by and they asked me for directions or how far it was to get there. 858 00:49:18,250 --> 00:49:19,290 Like copper penny. 859 00:49:19,340 --> 00:49:20,100 I was like, what do you mean? 860 00:49:21,630 --> 00:49:23,230 You don't know where copper, they're not from here. 861 00:49:23,240 --> 00:49:23,870 they drove in. 862 00:49:25,870 --> 00:49:27,110 You aren't from here. 863 00:49:27,940 --> 00:49:28,350 Oh man. 864 00:49:28,350 --> 00:49:32,050 The same, like, so I've been in PI safe before and that's happened. 865 00:49:32,050 --> 00:49:36,720 We're like, like a van load of, I mean, genuinely, I mean, they were tourists. 866 00:49:36,720 --> 00:49:39,260 they had come off the highway, I guess. 867 00:49:39,530 --> 00:49:43,470 From somewhere else and were talking about how they had come out of 868 00:49:43,470 --> 00:49:45,670 their way because a friend had said. 869 00:49:45,700 --> 00:49:47,190 Oh, you got to go try this bakery. 870 00:49:47,190 --> 00:49:50,700 It's amazing and then stuff like the carolina arcade I take my kids there 871 00:49:50,700 --> 00:49:53,860 all the time and I just look around and i'm like, you know, honestly, this would 872 00:49:53,870 --> 00:50:00,015 be cool anywhere Like this is a this is a cool place so yeah, things have 873 00:50:00,015 --> 00:50:04,375 certainly been changing I don't know but at the same time It's one of those things 874 00:50:04,375 --> 00:50:08,425 where I feel there is still a little bit of that that hopelessness or even 875 00:50:08,425 --> 00:50:12,500 especially for younger population anytime you grow up in a small town There's part 876 00:50:12,500 --> 00:50:13,930 of you that wants to go somewhere else. 877 00:50:14,130 --> 00:50:17,870 I just don't want the motivation for that to be a spiritual hopelessness. 878 00:50:18,240 --> 00:50:20,880 The idea that this place feels dismal or bleak. 879 00:50:21,010 --> 00:50:22,150 And I don't think it does. 880 00:50:22,510 --> 00:50:26,320 but I also exist in this community, you know, and we wear shirts and have podcasts 881 00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:27,530 that say small town, big God, you know? 882 00:50:27,720 --> 00:50:30,710 So that's, that's why I think like what you're doing so great. 883 00:50:30,710 --> 00:50:33,820 And then what elements been kind of doing this rallying cry, which is like, 884 00:50:34,290 --> 00:50:36,790 you know, no, you don't have to leave. 885 00:50:37,325 --> 00:50:39,705 To be part of big God ordained things. 886 00:50:39,705 --> 00:50:43,515 And in fact, I do think God, desires more people to have that 887 00:50:43,515 --> 00:50:45,595 kind of mindset in small towns. 888 00:50:46,655 --> 00:50:50,595 We're about to bring this episode to a close, but there's one more thing that 889 00:50:50,595 --> 00:50:56,015 we need to know from Jeremy, which is, what would he say if he could say one 890 00:50:56,015 --> 00:50:58,505 thing to all of Small Town Friendly? 891 00:50:59,305 --> 00:51:03,455 I recorded this episode before I started asking everyone this at the 892 00:51:03,455 --> 00:51:08,715 end of our interviews, so I had to get Jeremy's answer after the fact, but 893 00:51:08,715 --> 00:51:10,445 he was okay with me reading it to you. 894 00:51:10,605 --> 00:51:13,155 So, here's what Jeremy has to say to you. 895 00:51:15,060 --> 00:51:18,700 Rutherford County is not as reached as most people think it is. 896 00:51:20,548 --> 00:51:23,568 being radically changed by the gospel. 897 00:51:23,568 --> 00:51:28,408 So if you're a believer, look around at your life, and find the people who might 898 00:51:28,488 --> 00:51:31,628 not look like they're lost, but are. 899 00:51:32,208 --> 00:51:35,878 And however possible, Share the good news of Jesus with them. 900 00:51:37,401 --> 00:51:40,391 Thank you for listening to this episode of Small Town Big God. 901 00:51:40,721 --> 00:51:42,591 And if you'd like to connect with ATAP, 902 00:51:42,951 --> 00:51:46,161 If you want to join the Engage network or be a part of those Engage 903 00:51:46,171 --> 00:51:50,771 gatherings, you can find out more about that at allthingsallpeople. 904 00:51:50,801 --> 00:51:51,191 org. 905 00:51:51,781 --> 00:51:53,311 I'll have a link in the description. 906 00:51:53,891 --> 00:51:56,611 Also, if you're not a part of a church, 907 00:51:56,741 --> 00:51:58,331 we would love to have you at Element. 908 00:51:58,606 --> 00:52:01,926 But like Jeremy said earlier, you do not have to accept my 909 00:52:01,926 --> 00:52:03,776 church to accept my Christ. 910 00:52:04,156 --> 00:52:06,226 We have a lot of great churches in this county. 911 00:52:06,806 --> 00:52:11,966 A few of them are 2nd Baptist, Florence Baptist, Father's Vineyard, 912 00:52:11,976 --> 00:52:17,746 Floyd's Creek, Adaville, 1st Baptist, West Point, Harriet Memorial. 913 00:52:17,776 --> 00:52:20,066 I have some friends there who do a basketball ministry 914 00:52:20,066 --> 00:52:21,096 that sounds pretty cool. 915 00:52:21,506 --> 00:52:23,146 And, I mean, there's a ton more. 916 00:52:23,226 --> 00:52:24,926 If I missed your church, I apologize. 917 00:52:24,966 --> 00:52:26,626 There's, there's so many. 918 00:52:26,946 --> 00:52:30,366 Uh, most of the ones that I just named were Baptist because Element 919 00:52:30,386 --> 00:52:34,036 is Baptist and we're just more connected to other Baptist churches. 920 00:52:34,036 --> 00:52:36,476 So we know those pastors a little bit better, but you don't 921 00:52:36,476 --> 00:52:37,946 have to go to a Baptist church. 922 00:52:39,266 --> 00:52:43,006 Anyway, I hope that's made my point and nobody's upset with me for not 923 00:52:43,006 --> 00:52:48,446 naming their church, but thank you for listening to this episode and thank you 924 00:52:48,446 --> 00:52:50,186 for being a part of Small Town Friendly.