Welcome back to the final installment of our three part series

with Gordon Wilson on Connect & Convert.

This is Producer Boomer.

In part one, Gordon shared his philosophy on managing versus coaching.

In part two, we explored his unique methodologies, his and his methods, and

heard powerful transformation stories.

Today we're getting more personal.

You'll discover what truly motivates Gordon as a coach, his approach

to hiring and his thoughts on managing younger generations.

Gordon also shares his perspective on the influences that shape

us and reveals what he'd do differently if he could start over.

At the age of 32, this final episode is packed with wisdom from

decades of real world experience.

Let's dive right in into part three with Gordon Wilson

. Leah Bumphrey: So now.

I wanna go a little bit deeper, Gordon, because you're filling up a lot of

people's cups with what you are doing.

Yes.

Nothing, nothing fancy, but you're doing what you have promised

and, and there's those results.

And as you said, you've had references for years from these people.

What do you do?

What does Gordon do to fill up his cup?

You can't keep doing that.

Eventually the teapots empty.

So what do you do to keep yourself in this mindset?

And that's something Dennis and I talk all the time because even the best

business owner, the best coach, the best manager has to have something within

themselves 'cause it's not limitless.

I disagree with that.

Okay.

If you come at it from a standpoint that what fulfills me

is seeing those people do better.

Okay.

Uh, I had a kid call me, um, two weeks ago, brand new in the business.

This was down in another location.

He was at the bottom of the heap.

He was on the firing line, if you know what that means.

He, he had a lot of stadium lights on him.

Um, and, uh, in training that day, uh, I had come up with some ways to

present in our case, the options.

I really drilled in on it and he was really into listening.

My phone rang two hours later while I was sitting in one of my meetings with

my coaches, and, uh, he called me up and he says, Gordon, Gordon, it worked.

I did it exactly the way he said, you do it.

And I closed it in the platinum.

And, uh, he says, I, I never came out of the platinum option.

I just sat there and did exactly what you said to do.

Now, to me, that's my day.

Okay.

Look at anything that you do, including you guys, you know, if,

if you can help, whatever number.

Everybody has low numbers they put on there.

You know, if I can help one person, I've done my job.

Um, when, when you can see if, if, if, if I'm doing my thing

and the numbers are going up.

In what direction I like to see.

Then I'm doing something correctly and the team is responding to it.

You always have braggers and you always have laggers.

Okay?

Um, you have to work.

You have to work both in management.

It's like elevator coaching, whatever floor all five or six or 10 of your

people are, you have to get off on the same floor with that person to

be able to communicate with them.

Hmm.

Well said.

I, I like that.

Elevated coaching.

I don't think I've heard that term before.

I, that's, that's a G-ism

that, yeah, he has, uh, Leah, you'll learn that Gordon

has a lot of patented phrases.

Trademark, you know, you can't use them.

All for heaven's sake.

He own, he owns them.

Hey, I'm sorry.

I'll put a little asterisk by that.

Yeah.

Oh, hold on.

25 grand and I'll let you release that to you.

Would that be 25 grand Canadian or U.S.?

You know, it's a big

difference.

Oh, I

get two.

I get two if I'm paying US dollars.

Whatever works for you.

Leah, Canadian.

I took, I'm not a. I'm not a money, you know,

you're not money motivated.

It's, it's seeing the look in their eye and hearing what's going on.

Okay.

Let me do a quick lightning round with you, Gordon.

Um, uh, product knowledge or mindset.

Mindset.

Why

I.

I'd rather hire somebody that is driven with a kick butt attitude, a desire to

learn, and just wants to just be better in their life any day over someone that

can receive, recite the entire instruction manual for a piece of equipment.

Okay.

Script.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Uh, you're No, go ahead.

Finished.

No, go ahead.

I want to hear what you say.

I don't remember now.

Okay.

It'll come back to you.

I'm, I'm gonna pull the, I'm gonna pull the old age card.

Okay.

So, all right.

Good.

Ah,

you're not allowed, you're not allowed to pull that card,

but Nope, we don't, we don't have any talk like that on this podcast, do we?

Thank you.

Yes.

She, she forbids it.

Actually, I am the.

So, okay.

And again,

I don't know about that.

Strike two.

Strike two.

Okay, go ahead, Dennis.

Go ahead.

Uh, script or guide or framework.

Framework.

Why?

Because if it's a good framework, you can fill in the pieces

yourself without it being scripty.

I mean, it, it, it's almost a, I I mean, I'll, I'll back up.

It's almost a tie because in a script there should be framework.

It should be okay because the framework is an outline.

The script is what's in between the A, B, C, and D, you know, of

the outlines or 1, 2, 3, and then A, B, C underneath one of those.

Um, the script is only important as learning, um, what the objection is and

what we're looking for people to do.

Um.

I don't know.

I mean, we have a framework here and, and to me, I, I look at it as an outline

and it, it's the framework of a house and it's up for us to fill the interior

and paint the home, uh, on the inside, uh, on how do you, how do you communicate

this from a consultative standpoint and not a scripty sales standpoint.

That's okay.

Answer.

Uh, questions or statements?

Questions.

Why?

Because if you don't know what the person is

looking for or wants, what give difference does your statement make?

Why is it that so many people, even to this day still

believe that the job they have, if they have some word like sales in

their title, is to make statements?

What is your theory about that?

Well, I used to teach a course on don't show up and throw up.

Um,

don't show up and throw up

seriously, because some people have a tendency because they're,

once again, they're not confident in themselves and they're not confident

either technically or in the process, which can be three different things.

You got the process, you've got the technical questions,

and you've got themselves.

Those are three things that everybody's trying to manage at the same time.

So, uh, to, to me.

I'll let you ask it again.

Uh, I

questions or statements?

I, well, yeah.

Questions or statements because at, at the end of the day, we are there

depending on your business, but we're there to provide some form of service.

Okay.

And, uh, we talked a little about this this morning.

You know, if you serve someone correctly, then there is no sale involved, right?

And if you're serving, you're serving by asking what are, what's important

to the customer, what their needs are, where are they at in the process?

I'm just here to help you make an informed, intelligent decision.

Uh, how can I better help you?

I mean, all those kind of questions, um, lead yourself to

being more of a, I'm here to help.

Very few people will turn away.

Anybody that's here to help, and I used to start off with that in my presentations at

the end of the day, I'm just sure to help.

Okay, this is a good one.

Um, Arturo Fuente or Ashton.

Ooh, a a

heck.

Are you asking

it?

It's, it's, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a tie.

It's a tie, it's a tie between the Ashton VSG and, uh, and the shark's tooth.

Uh, fuentes, the

shark, the, the, uh, tur fuentes shark as

you're talking about, right?

Yep.

Yeah.

The shark Now, uh, for our listeners and viewers, and for Leah

and Leah and, and perhaps

producer Paul, explain what that question is all about.

Well, you're asking me what it's all about.

Yeah.

I asked the question, but you explain it.

Oh, well.

Um, I, I never even SI never had a cigarette to my mouth.

I didn't start smoking until I was riding Harley's.

Uh, and, and, uh, it's the reason it just kind of Harley's, huh.

Fit together.

Um, and now as I've gotten into the later stages of life, yes, um, I,

uh, have found that I truly relaxed.

Because you have to sit for an hour to two hours, depending.

It helps me kind of just look at my days, my life or talk to my wife or whatever

it is, because you have to sit there for an hour with a really nice cigar and a

fine scotch, bourbon, rum or tequila.

I'm, oh my, I'm, I'm an equal.

I'm an equal opportunity.

Person, mix 'em all together.

Um, let's be clear, there are people who drink.

There are people who have a drink.

I have a drink.

I'm not You have a drink?

Yes.

Um, working in nightclubs and learn me what I didn't want to be.

So, um, wow.

There's another whole podcast there on Oh my.

How do you survive bouncing in nightclubs for eight years outta Chicago?

You outside of Chicago?

Oh man.

W that, we definitely gotta hear that story.

Uh, we'll, we'll have you back for that one.

So Leah, what, what we were referring to is Gordon and I

share a love of fine cigars.

Yes.

I caught that.

He, during his explanation, and I, he finelaw the reasons behind it because,

and we have, uh, we have talked about.

Several different types of cigars and I sent him a cigar that I

like and I think he liked it.

I hope he did.

Um,

I sent you the picture up with the scotch here

in the cigar in my hand with

a up.

You did?

I mean, yes.

He, he appeared to like it.

Yeah.

So I, you know, maybe I'll send him some more.

You know,

I think Dennis is looking for a Google review.

Dennis, I, I wanna tell you, out all the cigars I smoked,

I've never had anybody send me one like you did, and I have changed.

We've got that on tape.

That's recorded.

That's excellent.

That is.

Okay.

Gordon, as we close, as we close out, I have, what was your craziest coaching

experience of all, you have had hundreds of experiences, we could go on and on,

but what was the craziest thing that ever happened to you as a sales coach?

Wow.

Yeah.

I have my secretary up here running around like crazy through the files.

'cause let's go back.

It kind of predates A.D.

We're fine with the top 10.

We're, we're fine with the top 10.

Yeah.

If you

can come, I'm gonna go with the most recent one, uh, three months ago.

Go ahead.

Young new guy.

I, I'm training, uh, at our other location and I'm looking at, uh, we

have a, a thing called Data Cube, which.

List all the KPIs with the text, photos and where they're at,

closing percentage and numbers.

The whole, it is kind of an on the spot, immediately available information.

And so I'm saying, and I'm talking about how people are moving all over the

board and I go, how do we go from here?

Um, kind of in fifth place, out of 12 to 12th place, how does.

That how,

tell me how that works.

And I looked at this young man, I said, so would you

like to tell me how that happened?

He goes, well, first of all, I have to tell you I'm offended.

Hmm.

I go, ex, first of all, I think everybody else in the room realizes that probably

isn't the right thing to say to me.

But um, he didn't.

And I said, so you're offended?

He goes, yes.

I go, well, how's that working for you?

And, uh, he says, well, no, I don't think that was the right question.

I said, oh, well, as a 19-year-old, fresh out of the house, you'll

have to realize there's a certain thing called accountability.

And let me throw in a tad bit of respect.

Now you, okay?

The respect comes from the standpoint that, one, I have the right, the

ability, the know how, and any way I do it, um, to ask you that

question because I wanna know why.

And if you don't, are concerned to know why, then you're in the wrong business.

Because you'll never move out of 12 if you don't figure out how you got there.

I said so I'm sorry if you felt offended.

Uh, we,

you triggered him.

You triggered a 19-year-old?

Wow.

And, and I, and I said, we don't have a safe room built here yet in the

building, but if you like, you need to go visit it later, um, you go right ahead.

Well, because, you know, he needed, he was cocky, he was young.

He thought he knew it all, uh, and he needed to have a little bit of

attitude adjustment by the way.

That young man, uh, is struggling again now because I'm only down

there occasionally, but he did go all the way up into the third and

fourth position, uh, in the numbers.

Um, but, uh, as the 19-year-old that I had to let go yesterday for

similar teenage retribution, um,

retribution.

Wow.

Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's fascinating the young people today

when, when I was young, 19, I was hungry.

I mean, I still didn't give a crap about anything.

But those were different days.

You know, those were, you know, well first of all, you were never

disrespectful to anybody that was older.

Never.

I would never, everybody was.

Yes ma'am.

No ma'am.

Yes sir. No sir. Uh, everybody that my dad worked for was an uncle.

Um, yeah.

So it was a different time.

I, I wish a lot of our younger people today could go back in that

time because there was a thing called respect that was taught.

Okay.

Uh, and no matter what,

well, it was, it was also, it was modeled, you know,

I mean, I think it was modeled by society, by parents, by teachers.

I mean, I, you know, that's a whole nother topic for another podcast too.

Yes, hiring, uh, hiring.

What, what are the new teenagers now?

'cause we, we barely survived the videos.

Are they, what is their name?

Gen Z.

It's Generation Z.

Is it ZZ?

Wasn't there a movie Z thing about the apocalypse or something?

Oh yeah, it was a good one too.

I love my sci-fi and yeah, they got what was coming to them.

I, trust me.

Well, some of these young kids are apocalyptic.

I'll tell you.

It's pretty fascinating where their mind is.

Um,

you know, we got another podcast here in this.

We should do a podcast on Connect & Convert about how to manage the

younger workforce, you know, especially if you're older like Gordon.

Actually, Dennis, we, we've already done that once, but,

uh, it's been a long time ago.

We'll have to go back and, uh, listen to it.

Well, we did do that one.

Yes.

God, it's been so long.

I forgot Paul.

Thank you.

Now, Dennis, you're talking about drawing to a close, but

I have a couple of questions yet that I

Well, all right.

I mean if, yeah.

Well, I mean, go, go.

I'd like to get Gordon away.

I could go on for hours.

You don't have to encourage.

I was just trying, I was trying to be respectful of the time of our audience.

I, I would never go on for hours, so, but if you

guys want me to, I'm looking.

Okay.

You, you, I know that you would with a good

cigar and a glass of whiskey.

I should light one up now and has to that, you know.

That'd, that, that'd be the way to do it.

The net, the, uh, your answers could be ours, but you could

do a quick one on these too.

One comes to mind because it, uh, I'd written it down earlier, but

we've kind of alluded to this.

If you are in a position where you're hiring for position

someone with sales experience, someone with not a lick, a sales experience?

I'd rather take the, with a sales experience first blush.

Okay.

Um, here's what you have to look at.

'cause I see a lot of companies do this, including in management,

where they wanna hire somebody green and teach 'em their way.

Well, right.

Maybe you need to take a look at what your way is before you ask for that.

Okay.

Well said.

That's one thing.

Two is I'd rather see if I can correct a few old habits with someone at least

has one prong of the three legged stool.

Okay.

Is that three-legged stool when I'm hiring is, do they have any experience in my

industry or are we gonna have to teach it?

Okay.

Do they have any sales experience?

Am I gonna have to teach it?

Because along with that, they're also gonna have to learn the process.

That's three things we're gonna have to teach.

How much time do you have to, to put into that person, and are they even

in a place to be able to do that?

I mean, that's a whole nother, including in managers.

Okay.

Um, there are rare birds out there that can sell, manage, and coach.

Um,

turn the Boomer, turn the spotlight on.

We, we found the guy, we finally found the, yeah, there he is.

Um, no, I, I, I'm serious about that because we.

We, we talk about the investment that new people cost.

I mean, we'll take seven, eight months to decide whether we

wanna keep somebody or not.

That's a lot of money.

'cause most of 'em on hourly.

Mm-hmm.

Plus we're paying them a percentage or a

commission or something like that.

Just the management time and training time invested in those people.

Plus if they're in a vehicle already, okay, then there's that expense.

You know, the cost of five to $600.

You even send 'em on a call, right.

You take somebody really green and brand new, that can be a lengthy

process, not knowing what you're gonna end up with at the end.

Not that you ever do.

You can hire the greatest person on sliced bread.

That successful whole life, that just turns into a big bag

of crap at the end of the day.

But that's gonna be a personal thing.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's true.

That's when that personal side comes in.

Yeah.

Yep.

Uh, one thing I always tell my clients is it's

actually a three pronged point, but I believe it very strongly.

The only thing that changes us are the books we read, the music we listen

to, and the people that we meet.

Hmm.

Books, music, people.

What are those influences in your life, Gordon?

Well, I'll say, I'm gonna add one to that.

The desire to change.

Nobody changes until they have to.

That's right.

If you look through history, even populations don't

change until they have to.

Okay.

And so to me, something triggers somebody to say, Hey, I have

to make an internal change.

I'm losing my wife, or I've lost too many jobs, or whatever it is,

and all of a sudden you get slapped upside of the head and say, if I don't

change, I'm going down the tubes.

And, and that's, that's what I call a personal come to Jesus

meeting with yourself somewhere.

Yep.

And find out what's going on.

But, uh, music is an influence.

I, I'm huge and always have been into music, uh, music and I hate to bring

up another career, but I have been a musician in the past, of course.

So, uh,

I'm sorry I lived too long.

Okay.

Wow, man.

Don't apologize.

Don't apologize.

Um, so music's important to me.

My music tastes are all over the place, but have kind of just gone

into the smooth jazz because I like the relaxing side of that.

Mm-hmm.

Plus it goes well in an old piano bar, jazz with a cigar and scotch.

I don't, boy, you know

that right.

Dennis

scene you just said.

It's a magic moment.

Wanna see?

Okay.

It's a magic moment.

Yes.

It's books.

I've never been a big reader other than history.

I got really into, um, pre, uh, kind of, uh, pre-Jesus, uh, you know, bc uh, stuff.

Um, I have an antique uh, uh, Masonic library at home.

Um, wow.

Wow.

That really digs into some pretty, you know, that's the kind of

stuff I, I'm not a huge reader.

No.

I also don't read sales books.

I don't read, uh, a lot of other guidance books because this may sound weird.

I don't want anything to influence what works already for me.

No, no, that, that doesn't sound weird.

I like that.

Don't mess up your mind.

Right?

Well, I've had people try to change what I do and I go, I, I. No.

No, I'm not.

Why would I change what has worked successfully in the previous

three places that I've been?

Why would I change that?

Yeah, E, even in the position I'm in now, I had to learn quasi something new,

although a lot of it touched on what I did anyway, so I've had to adapt and still

do my process while using someone else's.

Yep.

Because you know what works and you're confident and you bring that to the table.

That's what you're hired based on the track record that you've established.

If you can keep, if you can keep winning and adapting to what it takes

to win, which is any good salesperson, and let me tell you, managers and owners.

At heart, believe it or not, you are a salesperson and you better

come to realization with that because as you're hiring, you're

selling your company and yourself.

Okay?

And when you're at your customer's house, no matter what

you're doing, you're selling.

And uh, so I know that selling term we talked about today is kind of a,

yeah, it, it's

negative word.

Um, but it, it can be, but uh, you know, again, it's the word that

this culture, this society uses for it.

I think the meaning that you derive from that is really what's important.

What do you infer from that?

You know?

I think if you walk to the front door and you go, Hey, I

know at the end of the day you think I'm here to sell you something, so

let's just get that off the table.

Okay.

Okay.

At the end, end of the day, I really take more of a consultative approach.

And you'll see that by the end of the time that I leave here, that

I am here to help you make an informed, intelligent decision.

There are a lot of questions that I'm gonna ask.

I hope that's okay with you.

Is that okay?

And, and, and I just, I I take it from there.

I take the sales thing off the table.

I don't sell anything that doesn't break off the table.

Yes, it's,

huh?

Do you coach that?

Yes, what you just said.

Yes.

How, how should I say this?

How easy or how difficult is it for people who are not used to that?

'cause that is quite, uh, innovative.

Very few people do that.

How easy is it for them to adopt that?

I don't know.

Maybe that's why I've been a hundred to 200% over quota in

every job that I've been at.

Wow.

And I don't, but I don't mean that as a smart ass comment.

I mean, the thing is, is that.

If you're, I've had to adapt my whole life.

This just shouldn't happen overnight.

This has all evolved, of course, of course, throughout the centuries of, of,

but listening to other people do something that, that was like, Ooh, I like that.

And then adapting it myself.

And that is all accumulated in to what it is, to what it is now.

But there is pushback because some people, um.

I'm gonna be politically uncorrect here for a moment in HR Unsensitive, but

some people have to grow a pair, okay?

In front of a customer and stand up for yourself and your company

and be blunt for honest, okay?

Yes, my stuff's expensive.

I'm not the cheapest guy on the planet.

Yes, you called me out here.

Yes, I'm the salesperson.

No, I'm not gonna beat on you.

No, I'm not gonna use all this tricky stuff.

Now at the end of the day, what's really good, if you're really good at

this, you can sell the crap of 'em.

They don't even know that they were sold.

I like getting to the door, and here's what I always wanted to hear.

Wow, you're good.

And I go, what do you mean?

I, I don't feel like you were pushing me, but I just signed the paperwork.

It just seemed like the right thing to do.

Then I sitting here at the door looking at you going, holy cow.

What just happened?

You're good.

That tells me I wasn't pushy, I wasn't sales, and they

appreciated what I did for,

I like that,

even though it cost 'em a lot.

Well, and they see you as a problem solver.

You solve their problem.

I, I put on my last business card before this when I was

still selling however many years ago that I was a solution consultant.

Yep.

That was it.

And that's the way I approached my sales.

So if we were able to wave the magic wand and take you on

Dennis and Leah's excellent adventure.

You are going back in time.

You are 32.

You have all the supports and your personal life in place.

You get to pick any industry you want, where are you setting your sights?

I wish I'd set my sights on setting up my own consulting business

on helping companies perform better.

That's what I wish I had.

Interesting.

Beautiful.

Interesting, interesting.

Yeah, it's not, what do you mean?

Because you can't always help from the inside.

That often you can't.

That's true.

Uh, the, the, the, um, mysterious person from afar has the better answers than

the inside people sometimes, right?

Yeah.

Isn't it amazing you hire someone with those decades and decades of experience,

but then you listen to somebody that walks in the door you don't know anything about

that comes up and says something, you know, it's, uh, kind of a fascinating.

Situation, but.

Human nature.

Profit in his own, uh, in his own town is not worth much.

Not worth much.

Yeah.

So, uh, you know, as always, I, I appreciate, uh, the questions.

I, I love being fired at questions.

That's how, that's quite honestly, that's another thing about coaching guys.

Uh, if you wanna hire a coach, I stand up in front of my

people and just say, fire away.

You know, what did you run into this week?

What's what?

Why did you close something?

What are you hearing?

What's not working?

Fire away.

Bring it at me.

Let's just go at it.

Um, I, I don't even, I don't even set up any training thing

anymore on my weekly trainings.

I, I just don't even set anything up anymore.

I'd rather just do it off the cuff and have it be natural and

real and on the spot at the time, even if I falter or stutter.

It's real.

Authentic wins the day.

Always, always.

Dennis, you know how we love that WizardAcademy.org sponsors

us, and of course, the, the classes that are offered are second to none.

Gordon, you've heard us talk about it before.

There's a relatively new class that they're doing and it is Tower talks.

It gives you an opportunity to be in the Wizard Tower and speak from,

uh, what's known as the plaid rug, which is the area of authority.

Um, it's a hard.

18 minute opportunity to talk to people with Q, Q and A afterwards.

And Gordon, one day when you are going, man, I need a new adventure.

I recommend that class for you.

Yeah.

Would set him up for the tower.

Love it.

You would love it.

Didn't your son do that?

Yep.

Fletcher did that.

You sent me, you sent me a video.

Yeah.

Well, you know, Gandolf does begin with a g.

I don't wanna say any person.

Enough said.

What a pleasure, gordon.

Gordon Wilson is our guest.

Second time guest.

He didn't disappoint, did he?

Leah?

He came through.

No, not at all.

With, with, uh, stories, philosophy, success, tips for

our small business owners.

Listen to Gordon.

Folks.

This guy is the real deal.

He has made it happen.

Okay?

He is making it happen as we speak.

And we are seeing that 'cause we're close, uh, to him and this client.

So all I can say is, number one, congratulations on an outstanding career.

You're still doing it.

There's still time.

Don't ever say there isn't.

There is.

Thank you for being our guest.

And we appreciate you.

We have 10 more topics here.

I guess we'll have to do this again sometime, but.

Ooh, a triple.

Ooh, yeah, that, that, that could be interesting.

So let's put a cap on this one.

Leah Bumphrey, it's Dennis Collins and Leah, along with our guest,

Gordon Wilson, we're saying so long this time for Connect & Convert.

We'll see you next time.

Thank you everybody.

Appreciate your time.