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So I'm here with Nathan Rost-Reese for, I think it must be episode seven or

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eight or 10 or something that we've done together. Welcome back,

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Nathan. Good to have you here, mate.

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Thanks, Ralph. Great to be back, mate.

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So what I want to talk about, there's a couple of things I want to talk about today.

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I'm not sure what's on your mind, but the first thing I want to have a chat

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about is something that's been, I've been thinking about a little bit lately

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is the responsibility for filling classes in a group reformer studio?

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Like, you know, what part of that lies with the studio owner?

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You know, like how much is it

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about marketing and getting people in the front door in the first place?

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And what part of it lies with the instructor?

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Like, you know, the instructor, you know, obviously retention is really important,

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you know, from the instructor perspective, but to what extent is actually just

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like getting people in, you know, filling the class because,

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you know, happy clients, one, they stay and two, they tell their friends.

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Uh, and three, you know, the other clients say, Oh, that class is popular.

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What's all the fuss about? You know, then they, they come along.

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So, you know, I guess, you know, I did a post on social media and did a podcast

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with Heath a couple of weeks back where I basically said, look,

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I think of course marketing is important, you know, and not all studios are equally popular.

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You know, you might be in a dud location or whatever it might be,

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but even within that, I think it's mostly up to the instructor.

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What's what's your uh and i got i got a i got

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very well mannered but a lot

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of pushback on that from instructors but i did have a few studio owners dm me

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and privately say fucking thank you for saying that so so as an instructor and

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a studio owner and someone who trains instructors like you know what's what's your position on that,

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Yeah, or I'm an advocate for 100% accountability.

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So as an instructor, you should really take complete responsibility for the

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amount of people that attend your class.

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You should take it personally. Like if your classes are about half full or a

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quarter full, that should sting a little bit.

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You know, that basically tells you something's not right.

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Because even if you did have half or a quarter full, all you need is some people

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to turn up and if you give them a great experience,

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they're going to come back and then you're going to get one or two next week

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and then one or two next week and it's just a matter of a couple of weeks,

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a month or two, and then that class will be full.

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So, yeah, accountability all the way and take ownership of it, take it personally.

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And, yeah, I mean, another way to look at it, because I can also look at it

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now from the perspective of training trainers and as a studio owner,

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when you look at the schedule, there's some people you can move around the schedule

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and wherever they go, it just fills up.

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So that just tells you straight away that obviously there's something about

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what they're doing which is drawing a crowd.

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So usually the thing that makes a difference is their level of personability,

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like they're just so friendly, so fun, so warm that people just feel drawn to them.

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And then you give them also way

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more uh one-on-one time so you know more things about them um and then their

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ability to get results in the class to to be credible to be able to tell them

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what they're going to feel where they're going to feel it all those little things

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they just add up and it's like uh.

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What's the most powerful thing in the universe? It's a compounding interest.

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It's got compounding interest. As soon as you get all those things stacking

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up, then it just becomes like a tidal wave.

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So, yeah. So, you know, a little bit of pushback on that.

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Now, you know, firstly, I'm in furious agreement with you, basically.

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But I think there is, I think it's not 100% black and white, I guess.

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I feel like, all right, there are for sure time slots that are harder to fill

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than others, right? Okay, if you put a class on midnight or whatever, even if it's like 6 a.m.

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On a Thursday, it's probably not going to be the most popular,

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depending on where you are, whether you're suburban or CBD or whatever it might be.

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So there are certainly time slots that are harder to fill than others.

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There's certainly class types that are harder to fill than others.

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Like if you're running the advanced class, for example, and you're in a new

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studio where there aren't any advanced clients.

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So obviously there are differences there. but typically

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what we see when we look over the month and we

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always review attendance on a monthly basis in the studios that

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i coach is we look at the average attendance for all

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the 6am slots across the month and we go huh okay how come the other 6am slots

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are averaging you know 80 percent and yours is averaging 50 percent you know

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or whatever or or we look at the average per instructor over the month we go

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okay well you're touching that 6am slot and that's kind of maybe a dud slot but scale,

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your average over the whole schedule is like, you know,

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60% and then the average of all the instructors is 75%. So yeah.

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It's not just that one slot sort of thing. So we can look at those averages.

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But I mean, for sure, there is, you know, there is something to say about time

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slots and class types on there.

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You know, how do you feel about, you know, because a lot of the comments I got

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on social media when I posted this, and like I said,

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they're all very well-mannered comments, but They were basically saying like,

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yeah, well, it's not really fair to judge, you know, Sally who's teaching at, you know, 6 a.m.

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In winter versus, you know, Mary who's teaching at the prime time,

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you know, Monday evening, you know, slot sort of thing.

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Yeah, well, there's no doubt that there is stronger preferences,

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but those stronger preferences, they're very specific to the location.

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So some locations, mornings are the most popular, you know, and then usually

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that's usually more suburban areas.

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And then other areas more closer to CBD, like nights are more popular.

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And then across the board, most places, middays aren't as popular as other times.

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So you're going to get that. It is what it is.

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As far as advanced classes go, the only way to fill an advanced class is to

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actually develop people over months.

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So if you're unable to develop people, then you're not going to have anyone

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that fits the criteria to want to be able to go to it.

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So to do that, it requires like a system, it requires progressive overload,

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it requires consistency, not just from you, but from the team.

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So that's kind of more like a top-down failure rather than just an individual one. All right.

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So here's another thing that I heard from a few people when I put this out there.

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Is like, okay, what about someone who's like, quote, a really gifted instructor,

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end quote, who's just not that popular?

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And, yeah, so, I mean, I've got a response to that, but I want to know what

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your response to that is.

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So the reason is because they put all the time and effort into queuing.

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And they don't have, it's like it's all group communication,

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no one-on-one connection.

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So all that person needs to do is connect with people one-on-one in between

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the group queuing interactions and they're going to like instantly build like

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rapport so it's like the difference between,

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having a conversation or going to a lecture you know like if someone's just

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talking at you then at some point you're kind of going to drop off and even

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if you are doing a great job,

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because there's no kind of like moments to to feel that so after even if the class was good,

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what they're going to remember is how they felt. And if they didn't really feel

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connected, then it's not going to be as good as even an instructor who wasn't

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as good, but was way more connected.

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Actually, I mean, I agree with that as far as it goes, but I think there's another

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missing ingredient there as well.

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I think a lot of instructors and studio owners.

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Confuse knowing a lot of cues, knowing a lot of anatomy, knowing a lot of exercises

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with being a good instructor.

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And so if somebody's like explaining all of the core activation and alignment

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and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but they're not actually challenging people

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to the point where they're actually getting stronger or more flexible.

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And they're also not connecting people with people. It's like,

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is that person really a good instructor?

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You know, like, it's like, knowing a lot of technical jargon,

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you know, to me, it's like, that's, I think a lot of people mistake that for

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actually being good at your job.

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And I think, you know, your job is to get people experience and results in the class, in the class.

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You know, experience being like, oh, that felt really good. I felt,

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I feel, you know, seen, heard, part of a gang, you know, I was absorbed in the process. It was fun.

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And then the results obviously is like, oh, my back doesn't hurt anymore.

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I can walk upstairs more easily.

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I, you know, I'm stronger. I can do the splits. I can, you know,

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whatever the thing is that they feel, they notice their body changing in positive ways.

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So those two things. And if you're cuing,

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you know, just like the textbook, but those things aren't happening,

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I would say it's like, well, you're

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not actually a good instructor at this point. What are your thoughts?

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Well, yeah, well, my definition of a good instructor is, like, your class is full.

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That's the only way to kind of, like, to validate that, you know,

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because how could you, you know, defend the position that I'm a great instructor

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but I can't split up my classes?

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Like, you know, obviously they don't think that, you know what I mean?

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Well, I think, and I think, you know, and without wanting to really,

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you know, I don't want to offend people here. That's not my intention.

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But I think there is, and I used to have this mindset, there is kind of the

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artist mindset. And I don't say that pejoratively.

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I mean, like I was a musician for decades. And so the artist,

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what I mean by the artist mindset is the mindset that, you know,

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what I'm doing here as a Pilates instructor is, you know, it's craft or it's

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art, you know, it's something creative that comes from within me.

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And I've learned my skills of, you know, I've learned how to cue,

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how to teach, how to program all of these things.

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And then I'm expressing that in a way that expresses myself and my,

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you know, my knowledge and my skills.

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And so it's really like people should appreciate that, you know,

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because of all of the years of training and practice that I've done and the

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skill level that I've developed to, you know, say these cues and whatever.

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And it's sort of, to me, that is the mindset that I used to have when I was

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a musician. It's like, oh, I practice all of these hours and I can play this

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thing that I think is really cool, but no one's buying my CDs.

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You know, this was back when CDs were a thing.

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And, but it's like up and, you know, I flipped my mindset on that.

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And I feel like with regard to the art thing,

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in regard to actual art, you know, like painting and music, I feel like,

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well, if you want people to buy your art, you've got to make art that people want to buy.

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You know, like it's up, it's not up to them to want it, what you make.

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It's up to you to make what they want, you know?

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And I think like, you don't have to make what they want, but if you don't make

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what they want, like, don't get upset when they don't buy it, you know?

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Like, and so I feel like in the Pilates world, we kind of have some of that

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same mindset where people feel like, oh, you know, I've created this beautiful,

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you know, queuing and this beautiful progression and isn't it wonderful,

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but no one appreciates it.

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It's like, well, you're in a service business.

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You know, people pay you money to get stronger, more flexible and have fun,

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you know, and be part of a community. And it's like, well, that's what they

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paid for. You know, did you deliver that?

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You know, if you just want to teach this perfect class, like,

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you know, if you want to paint, you know, some kind of great masterpiece,

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you don't give a shit if people like it or not, fine.

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But don't try and sell it because, like, you know, Paint it,

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stick it up on your own wall, admire it when you walk past it, you know.

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But like if people are paying you money, like if they're paying you money to

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mow their lawn, you've got to mow the lawn.

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You know, it's like we're in a service business.

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Yeah, well, this strikes a chord with me in a way. I just had like a flashback.

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So about a year, 18 months into teaching,

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what I thought was a great instructor was someone

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who knew all the coolest moves so i

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was trying to impress people with how cool my

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moves were and i was trying to impress people with how

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cool my cues were and how like fancy my my words

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were like you know talking about all different muscles and talking in a language

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that people don't really care about you know what i mean like sometimes if you

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go into the depths of like a the explanation of a physio people like what are

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you saying like it doesn't mean anything to me you know so it's easy to go down the path of like.

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Thinking, well, this stuff is, you know, it took me a long time to learn this

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kind of like highly complex movement pattern and all these amazing cues.

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But they're kind of not really going to land with the people that aren't there to learn that stuff.

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You know, like if you're teaching like a course, they're probably going to be

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interesting to other people that have that niche interest.

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Interest but to the general population like they don't

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really want to know um super

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fancy terms you know for muscles or they

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don't really want to know like highly complex movements that they can't really

00:14:01.841 --> 00:14:07.701

do so the after i figured that out that instead of trying to impress people

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with really fancy movements that the things that actually impressed people was

00:14:12.361 --> 00:14:15.081

being able to do everything that I provided and that it felt good.

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So that's shifted the focus to making sure that every time I teach, that I tick those boxes.

00:14:21.501 --> 00:14:26.301

Right. I mean, and I don't necessarily think that this means that,

00:14:26.341 --> 00:14:30.561

you know, everyone should dumb down in quotes their teaching or classes.

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But I think that, you know, if you do know a lot of stuff, well, that's great,

00:14:35.521 --> 00:14:40.221

but that doesn't, that shouldn't manifest as you explaining a lot of stuff,

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using a lot of big fancy words, etc like if

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it should manifest in the clients having fun and getting stronger and

00:14:46.321 --> 00:14:49.461

more flexible and going oh that was awesome you know don't really

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know what we did but you know it was fun and

00:14:52.541 --> 00:14:57.041

i'm getting good at it and i like how i feel now you know and so if you've got

00:14:57.041 --> 00:15:00.761

that knowledge and you can be like a duck you know paddling frantically beneath

00:15:00.761 --> 00:15:05.441

the water but on the surface it's all simple and clear and unruffled well that's

00:15:05.441 --> 00:15:11.061

amazing but but really i feel i mean And I just, I agree with you, Nathan,

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I just don't see how it's defensible to say that a good instructor is anything

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other than somebody who can fill classes.

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You know? Yeah. I mean, you've got to pick exercises which serve the people in front of you.

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So the problem with the fancy stuff is it's usually hard to stabilize because

00:15:33.938 --> 00:15:35.778

it's in like a difficult body position.

00:15:36.738 --> 00:15:39.698

Well, the movement patterns are really complex, so it's hard to coordinate. Yeah.

00:15:39.918 --> 00:15:42.958

So usually exercises like that, they take longer to set up, they take longer

00:15:42.958 --> 00:15:47.198

to start, they're harder to control how quick they fatigue, so you can't do them as long.

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So if you teach a class like that, You end up teaching 30 exercises that last for 40 seconds.

00:15:52.498 --> 00:15:56.758

And by the end of it, everyone's like, I spent more time getting in and out

00:15:56.758 --> 00:15:58.358

of exercise than actually doing something. Right.

00:15:58.698 --> 00:16:06.718

And paradoxically, the more complex and precarious something is,

00:16:06.878 --> 00:16:08.418

often the better it looks on Instagram.

00:16:09.673 --> 00:16:12.993

And so, you know, more and more we're seeing like,

00:16:13.353 --> 00:16:16.053

you know, people who's just genetically gifted, they've got,

00:16:16.073 --> 00:16:19.813

you know, super long, thin legs in a thigh gap, you know, ex-ballet dancers

00:16:19.813 --> 00:16:24.773

and gymnasts, they can roll beautifully with straight legs, et cetera, et cetera.

00:16:25.153 --> 00:16:29.033

And that's what looks amazing on Instagram. And so we all get more of that in

00:16:29.033 --> 00:16:33.653

our algorithm, but then we go and teach a class and those aren't the people in the class.

00:16:33.873 --> 00:16:36.513

You know, we've got like middle-aged moms, we've got, you know,

00:16:37.353 --> 00:16:39.493

just regular people, right?

00:16:39.673 --> 00:16:44.173

And who aren't ballet dancers, who aren't like, you know, size four or whatever,

00:16:44.433 --> 00:16:49.053

and don't have that movement skill or strength or whatever at this point.

00:16:49.413 --> 00:16:57.093

And so what works on Instagram is almost exactly opposite to what works in a

00:16:57.093 --> 00:16:59.693

group class. Agree or disagree?

00:17:00.453 --> 00:17:07.233

Oh, yeah. I couldn't agree more. The problem is, though, that Instagram seems to...

00:17:07.953 --> 00:17:11.013

I'm not sure if it's the algorithm or if it's just people's preferences,

00:17:11.013 --> 00:17:15.413

so I don't know where to point the finger, but I can say from the stuff that

00:17:15.413 --> 00:17:20.353

I post, my general philosophy is that I only want to post things that will work

00:17:20.353 --> 00:17:21.373

in group classes full stop.

00:17:21.753 --> 00:17:25.553

So now there's some things that work better in group classes and they're the

00:17:25.553 --> 00:17:28.333

things that are more simple, but they're the things that don't perform as well on Instagram.

00:17:30.773 --> 00:17:35.773

Lunges, long planks. Yeah, you get drawn into posting stuff,

00:17:35.793 --> 00:17:37.773

which is crazy Yeah, because you know it would get a better response.

00:17:37.793 --> 00:17:39.393

So it's like a weird kind of cycle.

00:17:39.433 --> 00:17:44.053

Otherwise it'd be like, okay, here's day 100 of me posting a plank. You know.

00:17:49.053 --> 00:17:53.353

Because that's, you know, really, really simple stuff that is,

00:17:53.473 --> 00:17:59.393

you know, I mean, the ideal group class exercise is something that is simple.

00:18:00.536 --> 00:18:07.056

And scalable. It's simple so that everyone can get it almost straight away.

00:18:07.056 --> 00:18:09.256

It doesn't matter if they don't know their ass from their elbow,

00:18:09.396 --> 00:18:12.216

they can still like go, oh yeah, hands on the bar, knees on the carriage,

00:18:12.356 --> 00:18:13.496

great, push out, awesome.

00:18:14.616 --> 00:18:21.576

And scalable so you can make it easier or harder very easily by just either

00:18:21.576 --> 00:18:24.976

switching springs up or down or lifting the knees, lowering the knees,

00:18:25.096 --> 00:18:27.936

moving the hands forward, putting the foot bar down a bit, whatever it might be.

00:18:27.936 --> 00:18:33.576

You can adjust the resistance curve from somebody who's very,

00:18:33.716 --> 00:18:38.836

very unfit to somebody who's very fit within the same basic move.

00:18:38.976 --> 00:18:44.496

And so when you apply those two criteria, simple so that everybody can do it

00:18:44.496 --> 00:18:47.116

and scalable so that everybody can do it,

00:18:47.696 --> 00:18:56.736

like you're left with not that many exercises that cleanly fit both of those criteria, right?

00:18:57.156 --> 00:19:01.916

Mm, yep. So you kind of converge on,

00:19:02.496 --> 00:19:06.876

you know, I don't know what the number is, but maybe, you know, 20, 30, 40 exercises.

00:19:08.156 --> 00:19:11.716

That basically, okay, every class is going to be essentially,

00:19:12.036 --> 00:19:16.496

or every great class, and what I mean by a great class is a class where everybody

00:19:16.496 --> 00:19:22.776

walks out of there going, fuck, that was so much fun, and I got an amazing workout, you know.

00:19:24.256 --> 00:19:29.596

Every great class is essentially some combination of those 30 or 40 moves,

00:19:30.116 --> 00:19:34.936

basically, you know, most of which don't do well on the algorithm.

00:19:36.707 --> 00:19:39.167

Yeah, well, that's pretty much it. Yeah.

00:19:41.467 --> 00:19:46.327

So, yeah, what you said then about simple and scalable, like 100%, yes, 100%.

00:19:47.707 --> 00:19:51.287

And the secret to the scalable part is it has to start in the easiest position.

00:19:51.527 --> 00:19:54.287

Yeah, you have to. Because otherwise there's nowhere to go. Right.

00:19:54.347 --> 00:20:00.507

So you can't start, I don't know, three quarters down the way of the scalability

00:20:00.507 --> 00:20:02.047

and then regress everyone.

00:20:02.227 --> 00:20:05.047

Like, what's the point? Like you've got to start at the bottom where it's easiest

00:20:05.047 --> 00:20:07.047

and then provide options which scale the load.

00:20:07.347 --> 00:20:11.827

I see the purpose of movement layers in exercise as the way to scale the load.

00:20:12.487 --> 00:20:16.147

So the only reason I add an extra movement to an exercise is to make it harder

00:20:16.147 --> 00:20:17.107

on the muscle group we're targeting.

00:20:17.507 --> 00:20:22.407

So that's how you control intensity. Right. And so that gets us.

00:20:22.527 --> 00:20:28.327

Let's segue into the next thing I want to talk about here, which is teaching

00:20:28.327 --> 00:20:33.547

a group of 12, or in your studio you have 14. Do you still have 14?

00:20:34.367 --> 00:20:36.247

18. 18. Okay, great.

00:20:39.267 --> 00:20:44.767

So, teaching, let's say, teaching a group of 12 plus. In my studio,

00:20:44.787 --> 00:20:47.647

we had 18. The first studio had 20, the second studio.

00:20:49.287 --> 00:20:55.147

And I know there are some studios around like Virgin, a couple of those bigger

00:20:55.147 --> 00:20:59.887

places that have like 24, 26, you know, in the space.

00:21:01.227 --> 00:21:10.907

But I think there's a lot of, I think a lot of anxiety or skepticism or anxiety.

00:21:12.068 --> 00:21:16.128

Pushback, I'm not sure what the right word is, from people in the Pilates world

00:21:16.128 --> 00:21:22.928

about teaching groups much bigger than like five or six, because they worry

00:21:22.928 --> 00:21:25.668

about safety, they worry about personal attention, they worry about quality.

00:21:26.068 --> 00:21:29.648

And I think that, I've thought about this a lot, and this is essentially what

00:21:29.648 --> 00:21:32.588

Heath and I are going to spend 90% of our waking life thinking about,

00:21:32.988 --> 00:21:38.988

and I know you too, is that when you're teaching a group,

00:21:39.208 --> 00:21:42.528

when I say a group, I mean like 10, 12, 14, you

00:21:42.528 --> 00:21:46.088

know people you have to teach it

00:21:46.088 --> 00:21:49.468

like a group you can't teach the way

00:21:49.468 --> 00:21:53.108

that pilates was traditionally taught like you know 12 one-on-ones

00:21:53.108 --> 00:21:56.708

all at the same time where everybody gets their own modification every

00:21:56.708 --> 00:21:59.748

oh sally you know your wrist hurts so you sit this one out mary

00:21:59.748 --> 00:22:02.528

you do this one sideline instead you know if you

00:22:02.528 --> 00:22:05.428

do that you you just go insane and you

00:22:05.428 --> 00:22:08.228

don't get to get around to each client and every you

00:22:08.228 --> 00:22:11.548

have to run like half a dozen different one-on-one classes all in

00:22:11.548 --> 00:22:14.768

parallel whereas when you teach a group and you

00:22:14.768 --> 00:22:18.068

teach it using what you just described those simple scalable

00:22:18.068 --> 00:22:23.148

moves where everyone starts on the easiest version everybody can

00:22:23.148 --> 00:22:27.188

do that version even sally with their sore wrists and mary who can't do supine

00:22:27.188 --> 00:22:31.368

or whatever it might be you just go great we're not going to do something kneeling

00:22:31.368 --> 00:22:34.868

or supine we're going to do a standing thing or a sitting thing or you know

00:22:34.868 --> 00:22:38.308

whatever it might be and then you just go great what's the easiest version of this. Okay.

00:22:38.588 --> 00:22:41.088

Slightly harder version, slightly harder version, slightly harder version.

00:22:41.448 --> 00:22:43.888

Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. Keep cranking it up until everybody's like,

00:22:43.988 --> 00:22:46.988

okay, that's my limit. Okay, great. Okay.

00:22:47.628 --> 00:22:49.308

Switch positions. Let's do another

00:22:49.308 --> 00:22:53.508

one. Same, same, but in a different position. And so when you do that.

00:22:55.198 --> 00:22:59.158

You get is you massively reduce

00:22:59.158 --> 00:23:02.018

the cognitive load on the instructor because you're not

00:23:02.018 --> 00:23:05.178

running half a dozen simultaneous like different you know

00:23:05.178 --> 00:23:07.898

programs in your head you're not trying to you know cue someone who's pregnant

00:23:07.898 --> 00:23:10.918

in one exercise and someone who's you know doing lunges or whatever in a different

00:23:10.918 --> 00:23:15.778

exercise you're you so you have much more bandwidth so you can actually spend

00:23:15.778 --> 00:23:20.398

more time individually focusing on each client and you can walk around and go

00:23:20.398 --> 00:23:23.518

mary great just move your foot a little bit to the right yeah can you feel that

00:23:23.518 --> 00:23:24.498

a bit more here fantastic,

00:23:25.198 --> 00:23:28.198

Or, you know, Sally, I think you need another spring here. You're looking so strong. Bam.

00:23:28.398 --> 00:23:33.018

So you can do more of that stuff, which paradoxically actually gives people

00:23:33.018 --> 00:23:34.978

the experience of more personal attention.

00:23:35.418 --> 00:23:38.558

And you're not rushing around the studio, like chasing your tail,

00:23:38.718 --> 00:23:41.578

running after people to try and modify because they're doing it wrong or whatever,

00:23:41.678 --> 00:23:44.298

because they can't, you know, they don't have the strength or whatever.

00:23:44.598 --> 00:23:50.858

So paradoxically, when you teach a larger group, if you use simple,

00:23:50.998 --> 00:23:55.118

scalable exercises and start with the easiest possible version and then layer

00:23:55.118 --> 00:23:59.578

it up in terms of adding load to the primary muscles that are doing the movement,

00:24:01.498 --> 00:24:07.458

you actually get to spend more time one-on-one with each person than if you're

00:24:07.458 --> 00:24:12.378

teaching the old way where basically everybody gets their own individual modifications.

00:24:16.812 --> 00:24:24.612

So, what do you think is the, you know, what's the bridge or what's the missing

00:24:24.612 --> 00:24:29.452

ingredient for people out there who are, you know,

00:24:29.912 --> 00:24:34.532

skeptical about teaching, you know, 10, 12, 14, 18 people in a group?

00:24:34.612 --> 00:24:37.212

I mean, all right, you train instructors in your studio.

00:24:37.452 --> 00:24:41.092

I'm guessing most of them, probably all of them, have never taught 18 people

00:24:41.092 --> 00:24:45.392

before in one group, right? So how do you take them from like,

00:24:45.512 --> 00:24:50.332

oh, I could never teach more than six people to like, oh, yeah, 18, no problem?

00:24:52.592 --> 00:24:57.372

So the thing is that that personal limitation of only teaching six people only

00:24:57.372 --> 00:24:58.972

exists if that's all you've ever seen.

00:25:00.012 --> 00:25:02.512

So if you're a client...

00:25:03.471 --> 00:25:06.691

In a studio with 18 reformers and

00:25:06.691 --> 00:25:10.091

week in week out you're doing classes and all

00:25:10.091 --> 00:25:12.831

of a sudden you decide to become an instructor there it's not going to be like some

00:25:12.831 --> 00:25:16.131

kind of crazy hurdle it's like it's just what it is yeah yeah the

00:25:16.131 --> 00:25:18.891

only reason the only problems that exist in group classes are the ones

00:25:18.891 --> 00:25:21.591

that we create for ourselves and that's because we're trying to

00:25:21.591 --> 00:25:24.371

use systems which don't work in that environment and that's

00:25:24.371 --> 00:25:27.291

the spent the last couple years really trying

00:25:27.291 --> 00:25:30.291

to figure out the best way to articulate these ideas but

00:25:30.291 --> 00:25:34.031

the idea i think at the moment is if

00:25:34.031 --> 00:25:37.351

you're trying to create a group reformer class

00:25:37.351 --> 00:25:40.751

system based purely on

00:25:40.751 --> 00:25:47.751

pilates methodology it doesn't work because the systems that require the thing

00:25:47.751 --> 00:25:51.951

that makes group reformer work is loading you have to understand loading you

00:25:51.951 --> 00:25:54.451

have to understand progressive overload you have to understand target muscle

00:25:54.451 --> 00:25:59.851

groups that isn't in pilates methodology it's not in the systems so,

00:26:00.531 --> 00:26:04.051

there's like that disconnect there means that you're never

00:26:04.051 --> 00:26:07.591

really going to get there like uh that's why people feel so stressed that's

00:26:07.591 --> 00:26:10.951

why they feel like such a roadblock because everything they've learned hasn't

00:26:10.951 --> 00:26:14.051

equipped them for this environment this environment you know joseph wasn't teaching

00:26:14.051 --> 00:26:19.491

18 people at once on 18 reformers not on 18 reformers but there's quite a bit

00:26:19.491 --> 00:26:21.551

of footage of him teaching like 15,

00:26:21.691 --> 00:26:24.271

20 people at once on mat at Jacob's Pillow.

00:26:24.411 --> 00:26:28.611

So like he wasn't against teaching large groups, quite the contrary. Yeah.

00:26:29.371 --> 00:26:35.011

Yeah, well, that's right. But he did, you know, the methods that people kind

00:26:35.011 --> 00:26:39.311

of share of his aren't designed to teach 18 people at once on 18 reformers.

00:26:39.411 --> 00:26:45.771

Like that's the point that I'm making is that to be successful in that environment,

00:26:45.771 --> 00:26:52.111

you have to optimize for that. You can't try and take other things and try and make them work.

00:26:52.231 --> 00:26:59.331

It has to be like the key to make that system work is you have to be able to,

00:27:00.438 --> 00:27:05.698

simplify the information so much that it's effortless and it's easy to understand.

00:27:06.618 --> 00:27:08.898

So you have to be able to get people moving.

00:27:10.878 --> 00:27:14.758

You have to be able to start exercises with the least amount of effort.

00:27:15.058 --> 00:27:18.598

So that means you have to pick body positions, which are super simple and easy to start.

00:27:19.978 --> 00:27:23.698

You have to be able to have exercise duration, which goes for around three minutes

00:27:23.698 --> 00:27:27.518

to give you enough time to be able to add in movement layers, which make it harder.

00:27:28.858 --> 00:27:32.198

And then you have to be able to guarantee every person is working the master

00:27:32.198 --> 00:27:33.778

group you intended so you have to understand.

00:27:36.313 --> 00:27:39.713

How everybody's experiences the spring tension is relative to their body.

00:27:39.973 --> 00:27:43.173

People with more mass or less mass, how that feels. You have to understand if

00:27:43.173 --> 00:27:45.433

they've got longer limbs or shorter limbs, if they're stretching the springs

00:27:45.433 --> 00:27:46.913

more or less, how that would change it.

00:27:47.053 --> 00:27:50.773

And also where they're positioned, like if the foot bar's up or down a few rungs

00:27:50.773 --> 00:27:53.593

or if their foot's a bit further out along the carriage or a bit further along

00:27:53.593 --> 00:27:58.433

the floor towards the pulleys or whatever it might be. All of that changes the spring tension.

00:27:59.493 --> 00:28:05.013

That's right. So you have to have a masterful, a real comprehensive understanding

00:28:05.013 --> 00:28:08.713

of how the springs work and how they work in relation to the human body,

00:28:09.213 --> 00:28:13.853

and that will give you the ability to intuitively understand everyone's experience

00:28:13.853 --> 00:28:15.933

based on watching their speed of movement and range of motion.

00:28:16.173 --> 00:28:19.193

You just look at them and you can tell exactly what they're feeling and then

00:28:19.193 --> 00:28:20.413

you know if that's what you want it to be.

00:28:20.933 --> 00:28:24.493

I'll tell you something that you said there that kind of made me think.

00:28:24.493 --> 00:28:27.273

Um something that i think

00:28:27.273 --> 00:28:30.533

is a just a i think is a really

00:28:30.533 --> 00:28:36.313

big reason for this divide in pilates between like people who teach i guess

00:28:36.313 --> 00:28:40.433

what you'd call progressive strength-based reformer or fitness-based reformer

00:28:40.433 --> 00:28:46.853

or you know however you want to call it versus the people who teach uh more

00:28:46.853 --> 00:28:49.353

traditional whether it's contemporary or classical or whatever.

00:28:51.273 --> 00:28:54.133

Is this idea of load and you

00:28:54.133 --> 00:28:56.893

know what you said about you know you have to add load to the

00:28:56.893 --> 00:29:01.073

target muscle to increase the challenge and it's like well coming from myself

00:29:01.073 --> 00:29:04.773

coming from an exercise science exercise physiology background that's like yeah

00:29:04.773 --> 00:29:08.813

blindingly obvious it's like thing number one they teach you in exercise science

00:29:08.813 --> 00:29:13.173

is you've got to load the target muscle groups you know to the point of near

00:29:13.173 --> 00:29:15.993

fatigue if you want to get stronger like that's like,

00:29:16.885 --> 00:29:20.285

thing they, day one, you know, that's what they teach you.

00:29:20.905 --> 00:29:30.225

Um, and yet in, in Pilates by and large, you know, overall, I would say there's a lot of,

00:29:31.405 --> 00:29:37.365

there's a lot of people, there's a widespread misunderstanding of that concept.

00:29:37.365 --> 00:29:45.045

Like I see a lot, you know, statements to the effect of, you know,

00:29:45.365 --> 00:29:51.265

strength doesn't come from adding load. It comes from control and proper muscle activation, you know.

00:29:52.185 --> 00:29:58.305

Or, you know, the way to, you know, like if you add load to a movement that

00:29:58.305 --> 00:30:01.985

is, you know, where form is not perfect, you know, you're just asking for an

00:30:01.985 --> 00:30:03.965

injury to happen, you know.

00:30:05.765 --> 00:30:09.085

Um or even that the point

00:30:09.085 --> 00:30:11.805

of pilates is not to get stronger you know

00:30:11.805 --> 00:30:14.565

it's to it's to move better which i just think like

00:30:14.565 --> 00:30:17.525

well what the fuck does that mean it's like

00:30:17.525 --> 00:30:23.485

how can you move better if you're not stronger you know like what does it mean

00:30:23.485 --> 00:30:28.865

to move better like doesn't it mean to move more easily all right so probably

00:30:28.865 --> 00:30:33.125

having more range of motion would make you move better and having more strength

00:30:33.125 --> 00:30:35.385

available through that range of motion would make, you know,

00:30:35.485 --> 00:30:36.905

like if you're stronger and more flexible,

00:30:37.525 --> 00:30:41.245

like, wouldn't that make you move better? Like how else can you move better?

00:30:41.505 --> 00:30:47.165

Like, you know, if you're stiff and weak, like how can you move well? You know?

00:30:47.785 --> 00:30:53.165

Um, so yeah, I guess, I mean, I know that, I know that we're in furious agreement

00:30:53.165 --> 00:30:55.265

on this point, but I guess,

00:30:55.685 --> 00:31:00.185

you know, I guess I'm interested in your perspective on this Cause I know that

00:31:00.185 --> 00:31:04.165

you see it and you give a lot of workshops and I imagine you've had every kind

00:31:04.165 --> 00:31:05.885

of like pushback under the, you know,

00:31:06.325 --> 00:31:09.165

on God's green earth about this topic.

00:31:09.525 --> 00:31:12.265

Yeah. So how do you, how do you respond? Yeah.

00:31:13.870 --> 00:31:19.510

Well, the thing is, I always like to start my workshops with things that are

00:31:19.510 --> 00:31:25.190

objectively true, which is springs have load. The load is progressive.

00:31:25.630 --> 00:31:27.350

You can equate the load to kilograms.

00:31:29.330 --> 00:31:32.910

And what that means is if you're in a body position with a spring tension,

00:31:33.390 --> 00:31:35.990

in order for you to move, muscles have to contract. So there's going to be a

00:31:35.990 --> 00:31:37.450

prime mover which makes a movement happen.

00:31:37.970 --> 00:31:42.270

You can't argue against that. That's just how it works. so anything after that

00:31:42.270 --> 00:31:46.530

is arguments based on how it should be air quotes and that doesn't interest

00:31:46.530 --> 00:31:50.150

me like it is what it is like in order for these movements to happen,

00:31:51.030 --> 00:31:52.350

then there's muscle groups involved

00:31:52.350 --> 00:31:55.150

and it's just about what you're trying to do from that point on so.

00:31:57.250 --> 00:31:59.630

I'm not going to these workshops saying hey everyone,

00:32:01.383 --> 00:32:04.043

you know i'm here to teach you pilates i'm saying hey everyone i'm here

00:32:04.043 --> 00:32:07.263

to teach you my method which is designed to be optimizing group

00:32:07.263 --> 00:32:10.743

reformer classes of 18 people plus you know so that's

00:32:10.743 --> 00:32:15.363

people are coming and interested in my methods because you

00:32:15.363 --> 00:32:18.243

know it makes it more profitable as a studio if you have more people in there

00:32:18.243 --> 00:32:21.083

so the only thing that's holding you back is being able to train them really

00:32:21.083 --> 00:32:24.423

well so they want to come back if you know how to do that then you know how

00:32:24.423 --> 00:32:28.703

many studios you want to open so the that's the only thing i'm interested in

00:32:28.703 --> 00:32:33.103

like not to be disrespectful to everyone else but I'm not sure why everyone else.

00:32:34.063 --> 00:32:38.923

Thinks that I care about a different point of view as much I don't really I

00:32:38.923 --> 00:32:43.843

appreciate everyone has their own point of view but don't,

00:32:44.363 --> 00:32:47.583

waste the time trying to convince me that it should be a different way because

00:32:47.583 --> 00:32:50.783

all I'm trying to do is optimize this specific environment

00:32:50.783 --> 00:32:53.943

to get this result so in this space this

00:32:53.943 --> 00:32:56.623

is what I'm doing and it doesn't bother me

00:32:56.623 --> 00:33:00.443

that everyone has a different methodology or a different belief system because what

00:33:00.443 --> 00:33:03.423

they do doesn't work in the space that i'm in so if

00:33:03.423 --> 00:33:06.443

it did i'd be doing it so um that's what

00:33:06.443 --> 00:33:09.823

i care about so um you know the

00:33:09.823 --> 00:33:12.623

these arguments and discussions will rage on for

00:33:12.623 --> 00:33:15.903

eternity and that's fine like it doesn't really bother me but what

00:33:15.903 --> 00:33:18.723

you know what interests me is if i'm training

00:33:18.723 --> 00:33:23.303

these people in front of me it's my responsibility to make sure they get the

00:33:23.303 --> 00:33:28.023

best experience and if you control those things the load the body positions

00:33:28.023 --> 00:33:33.343

you're intentional it's simple with information you get really good outcomes

00:33:33.343 --> 00:33:37.723

and um that's the secret really to making it work so yeah i don't know.

00:33:39.391 --> 00:33:44.691

It kind of always gets me fired up because sometimes people come in real hot

00:33:44.691 --> 00:33:45.811

and heavy with this emotion.

00:33:46.431 --> 00:33:48.831

Oh, this and that. It shouldn't be like this. It shouldn't be like that.

00:33:51.951 --> 00:33:55.471

But when I'm looking at trying to get results for people, it's not based on

00:33:55.471 --> 00:33:58.651

how someone else did it in the past. It's like, what am I doing right now to

00:33:58.651 --> 00:34:00.251

get this result for this person right now?

00:34:00.411 --> 00:34:05.611

So if there's a strategy that was used previously by someone else and I come

00:34:05.611 --> 00:34:09.291

across it and it works better than what I'm doing, I will use that instead.

00:34:10.215 --> 00:34:15.955

So I'm always seeking out information to improve the strategies that I currently have.

00:34:16.055 --> 00:34:19.155

And that's been my kind of way of improving over time.

00:34:19.355 --> 00:34:23.435

So I'm not going to not listen to other people, but if it doesn't work in the

00:34:23.435 --> 00:34:25.975

environment that I care about, then it's not that important to me.

00:34:26.595 --> 00:34:30.455

I think it's also, but it also just doesn't work in any environment because

00:34:30.455 --> 00:34:34.495

if you want to get stronger, you know, the laws of physics and the way the human

00:34:34.495 --> 00:34:38.735

physiology works is such that you have to progressively increase load.

00:34:38.735 --> 00:34:42.855

Like there's just no other way to get stronger and so

00:34:42.855 --> 00:34:45.875

regardless of whether you're teaching a bespoke kind of one-on-one or

00:34:45.875 --> 00:34:48.915

small group environment and you teach only the original pilates method

00:34:48.915 --> 00:34:52.015

or whether you're teaching you know 18 or 20 group reformer

00:34:52.015 --> 00:34:56.035

you know with dumbbells and all the rest of it it's like well if you want your

00:34:56.035 --> 00:34:59.375

clients to get stronger which i mean i presume that's one of the main reasons

00:34:59.375 --> 00:35:02.735

people come to pilates is they want to you know feel stronger more flexible

00:35:02.735 --> 00:35:06.795

in their bodies is like well you're gonna have to figure out how to progressively

00:35:06.795 --> 00:35:09.715

add load if you want that to happen, right?

00:35:09.835 --> 00:35:14.155

And so in strength-based reformer, we can add more springs, we can take more

00:35:14.155 --> 00:35:17.075

springs off, we can add dumbbells, you know, there's a whole bunch of ways we

00:35:17.075 --> 00:35:19.035

can, you know, we can change body position, et cetera.

00:35:19.775 --> 00:35:23.135

In a more traditional Pilates, well, you can lengthen the lever of the legs,

00:35:23.275 --> 00:35:27.115

you can add, you know, challenge, you can go to a harder version of the same

00:35:27.115 --> 00:35:29.075

move, you know, there's lots of ways you can add it.

00:35:29.335 --> 00:35:34.235

Now, I think it's easier by and large to add it in smaller increments on a reformer,

00:35:34.275 --> 00:35:36.715

and that's one of the things that's awesome about the reformer,

00:35:36.875 --> 00:35:40.595

but even if you're teaching on a chair or, you know, mat or whatever it might

00:35:40.595 --> 00:35:43.195

be, and if you're teaching just using the traditional moves, it's like, well,

00:35:43.575 --> 00:35:47.835

there's like eight versions of teaser in Pilates, you know, so just pick one

00:35:47.835 --> 00:35:52.655

that the client can mostly do, right? But it's hard for them.

00:35:52.815 --> 00:35:56.295

And then like do that until they can't do it anymore. And then come back next

00:35:56.295 --> 00:36:00.075

week and do a slightly harder version. It's like, you know, it's basically the same process.

00:36:01.573 --> 00:36:08.513

And you can't avoid human physiology. It doesn't matter what your philosophical underpinnings are.

00:36:08.793 --> 00:36:13.093

And I don't know exactly how Joseph progressed people, you know.

00:36:13.593 --> 00:36:20.553

But, you know, I've read a lot about his way of teaching and I've looked at,

00:36:20.553 --> 00:36:23.493

you know, so much archival video and text footage and whatever.

00:36:23.793 --> 00:36:29.333

And I think that the system he built is basically designed to progress people

00:36:29.333 --> 00:36:30.813

to make them stronger and more flexible.

00:36:30.813 --> 00:36:34.353

And that's why you've got like baby versions of a lot of the exercises and super

00:36:34.353 --> 00:36:38.033

difficult versions of the same move and like five different versions in between

00:36:38.033 --> 00:36:38.833

on different apparatus.

00:36:39.293 --> 00:36:43.253

It's so that you can go, okay, great. You're good at the hundred on the mat now.

00:36:43.393 --> 00:36:45.333

Great. Let's go and do it on the reformer. It's a bit harder,

00:36:45.653 --> 00:36:48.913

you know, add a bit more load, crack, work on a couple more springs.

00:36:49.233 --> 00:36:51.813

You know, it's like, it's the same. Okay. You're good at the hundred.

00:36:51.973 --> 00:36:53.873

Great. Let's do the teaser now. That's even harder.

00:36:54.353 --> 00:36:58.573

So basically you can, you can use your knowledge of the, of the system to add

00:36:58.573 --> 00:37:05.733

load, but it's It's like, if we don't agree that adding load is what we've got to do,

00:37:05.993 --> 00:37:11.053

then I think we're misunderstanding just the whole point of the exercise here.

00:37:12.952 --> 00:37:17.132

Yeah, I mean, for someone who was a bodybuilder, I mean, he obviously understood load.

00:37:18.192 --> 00:37:23.092

So I don't see how he could create a system completely like separated from that.

00:37:25.612 --> 00:37:31.952

But it's like there's a, you know, I don't mind discussions about,

00:37:31.952 --> 00:37:36.332

you know, trying to understand other people's point of view.

00:37:37.872 --> 00:37:42.112

But at the end of the day, the thing I care about the most is the people that

00:37:42.112 --> 00:37:43.892

I've got in front of me and guaranteeing they get results.

00:37:44.092 --> 00:37:48.732

And I'm not too concerned about trying to be another version of someone else.

00:37:48.992 --> 00:37:54.092

Like I don't really want to have a career that is, you know,

00:37:54.252 --> 00:37:55.912

following another person really.

00:37:56.052 --> 00:38:02.752

I kind of just want to purely achieve one thing, which is to optimize the experience in this setting.

00:38:03.372 --> 00:38:06.232

You know, 18 reformers plus, absolutely nailing that.

00:38:06.372 --> 00:38:10.412

To me, that's the thing I find the most exciting because when you do nail that,

00:38:10.412 --> 00:38:14.552

The feeling of teaching that many people at once, it's like playing in a football

00:38:14.552 --> 00:38:16.112

stadium full of like 100,000 people.

00:38:16.272 --> 00:38:20.432

It's just – put music in there. It's just amazing, absolutely epic.

00:38:21.932 --> 00:38:25.512

And then you get the results from the clients. It's just addictive.

00:38:25.912 --> 00:38:28.752

To teach in an environment like that is just so exciting.

00:38:29.792 --> 00:38:33.332

What's your observation? Because you started out with – I think you started

00:38:33.332 --> 00:38:36.572

with 14 at North Melbourne there. Is that right, the reformers?

00:38:37.292 --> 00:38:40.012

I started with 16. Okay.

00:38:40.172 --> 00:38:46.712

16, yep. And I know you've taught in a lot of places where there were 10 or 12, you know.

00:38:46.912 --> 00:38:50.312

So what's your observation of,

00:38:50.472 --> 00:38:54.892

you know, going from that kind of 10 to 12 to 16 to 18 in terms of,

00:38:55.052 --> 00:39:00.992

are there any differences in how you have to operate or is it just a higher

00:39:00.992 --> 00:39:03.972

level of skill in the same thing, in your opinion?

00:39:04.992 --> 00:39:06.452

You have to have.

00:39:08.163 --> 00:39:11.463

A system of observation you

00:39:11.463 --> 00:39:16.083

have to put yourself in a body position where you can see everybody and you

00:39:16.083 --> 00:39:19.923

have to spend time observing so you actually spend more time watching than you

00:39:19.923 --> 00:39:24.463

do talking because you need to see what's happening in order for you to be effective

00:39:24.463 --> 00:39:29.683

with what you say so in a smaller group it's really easy just to kind of say whatever you want to say,

00:39:30.503 --> 00:39:34.023

and because it's a smaller space you can kind of just get around to fix people

00:39:34.023 --> 00:39:38.583

but in a bigger group you actually have to know exactly what everyone's doing

00:39:38.583 --> 00:39:43.203

before you start talking about what happens next because if i try and give everyone

00:39:43.203 --> 00:39:45.483

a progression in loading.

00:39:46.503 --> 00:39:49.243

But half the people can't even do what i've just given them

00:39:49.243 --> 00:39:51.823

anyway then it's absolute disaster in there you know what i

00:39:51.823 --> 00:39:55.003

mean so their awareness levels that's the

00:39:55.003 --> 00:39:57.703

thing that really kind of takes time to develop a

00:39:57.703 --> 00:40:00.683

new instructor usually they're so preoccupied by

00:40:00.683 --> 00:40:03.643

the systems and memorizing them and learning

00:40:03.643 --> 00:40:07.023

them it takes away the bandwidth to actually see they

00:40:07.023 --> 00:40:10.103

literally cannot see you like to be walking past

00:40:10.103 --> 00:40:12.823

someone who's on the wrong spring just can't see

00:40:12.823 --> 00:40:15.723

it you know they walk past someone in the wrong body position can't

00:40:15.723 --> 00:40:19.083

see it so a big part of like when i train trainers is

00:40:19.083 --> 00:40:22.703

to help them see these things so i'll be in the room with them and

00:40:22.703 --> 00:40:25.503

sometimes i might kind of wave them over and say hey look see that

00:40:25.503 --> 00:40:28.263

over there see that over there it's like oh yeah oh it and they

00:40:28.263 --> 00:40:31.183

go and fix it you do that like 10 20 times and

00:40:31.183 --> 00:40:34.403

after a while they start to anticipate what it is that they're looking for that's

00:40:34.403 --> 00:40:40.463

not right so the yeah when i train trainers i really that's the thing i want

00:40:40.463 --> 00:40:44.563

to build in them i want to build that um deep understanding what every exercise

00:40:44.563 --> 00:40:49.723

is so when i teach them an exercise we'll go through everything you know the setup,

00:40:50.403 --> 00:40:55.203

so name springs crops body position move we'll look at the different movement

00:40:55.203 --> 00:40:59.983

layers you can add to it um and then we'll look at how to finish it we'll talk

00:40:59.983 --> 00:41:02.783

about target muscle groups we'll talk about um.

00:41:04.202 --> 00:41:08.222

You know these strategies and how you control intensity you can talk about the

00:41:08.222 --> 00:41:14.202

things the next thing i'll talk about is what you can expect will go wrong this

00:41:14.202 --> 00:41:16.742

is going to happen someone's going to be here instead of here someone's going

00:41:16.742 --> 00:41:18.422

to be on the wrong spring someone's going to be,

00:41:18.962 --> 00:41:22.282

moving like this if you see this you need to change that so i'm going to give

00:41:22.282 --> 00:41:28.362

them like a list of things to look for to fix the problems which will happen based on just,

00:41:29.122 --> 00:41:32.602

you know a big group of people you say one thing and it gets interpreted different

00:41:32.602 --> 00:41:37.242

ways So all of a sudden now, it's not just they're teaching an exercise.

00:41:37.242 --> 00:41:41.402

They actually understand what they're trying to do. They can articulate the goal of the exercise.

00:41:41.882 --> 00:41:47.622

And now they understand what it also isn't. So if something isn't right, they know how to fix it.

00:41:47.842 --> 00:41:52.102

So that gives them this real, this kind of internal confidence when they teach,

00:41:52.222 --> 00:41:54.202

that it's not just I'm here to teach an exercise.

00:41:54.422 --> 00:41:57.822

It's like I actually know exactly what is happening. I think that's something

00:41:57.822 --> 00:42:00.622

that's really lacking from most Polite's education.

00:42:00.622 --> 00:42:05.162

It was certainly lacking from when I learned that, you know,

00:42:05.262 --> 00:42:09.622

knowing what the exercise is actually for, like which muscles it's,

00:42:09.682 --> 00:42:11.482

you're strengthening or stretching or whatever.

00:42:12.620 --> 00:42:15.920

You know, and we were taught like a list of muscles that are quite,

00:42:15.920 --> 00:42:19.380

you know, activated by the move, but it's like, okay, there's like 50 muscles

00:42:19.380 --> 00:42:22.840

on this list here, but they can't all be getting strengthened by this move, you know?

00:42:24.060 --> 00:42:32.620

And so knowing what an exercise is for really makes it super obvious what you

00:42:32.620 --> 00:42:35.860

should correct and what's not worth correcting about that move.

00:42:35.860 --> 00:42:39.280

Like if an exercise is for your, let's say abs, right?

00:42:39.600 --> 00:42:43.060

Well, if the client's doing something that is like, okay, their foot's facing

00:42:43.060 --> 00:42:45.840

the wrong way or whatever, but it's like, that doesn't affect the load on the

00:42:45.840 --> 00:42:48.180

abs. It's like, it doesn't really matter, right?

00:42:48.500 --> 00:42:51.120

But if they're in a position or with a spring setting that's,

00:42:51.220 --> 00:42:55.580

that is interfering with the ability to actually load the abs,

00:42:55.800 --> 00:42:59.500

well, that does matter, you know, cause that's what the exercise is for.

00:42:59.500 --> 00:43:02.540

So once you understand what the exercise is

00:43:02.540 --> 00:43:05.820

for it becomes easy to to

00:43:05.820 --> 00:43:08.660

pinpoint okay here are the five things that can go wrong here because that

00:43:08.660 --> 00:43:13.260

offloads the target muscle or overloads it or whatever whereas you know oh should

00:43:13.260 --> 00:43:15.540

i worry if their toes are pointing the wrong way should i worry if their knees

00:43:15.540 --> 00:43:18.280

are locked or not should i worry if their head's here or there it's like yeah

00:43:18.280 --> 00:43:23.440

most of the times those things are just distractions from the actual true purpose

00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:27.200

of the exercise but if you if you don't know what the exercise is for because

00:43:27.200 --> 00:43:28.260

all you've got is like you know.

00:43:28.900 --> 00:43:32.320

69 muscles on your list of target, you know, muscles. It's like,

00:43:32.380 --> 00:43:34.280

if it's for everything, it's for nothing basically.

00:43:34.800 --> 00:43:37.440

So you have to know like, yeah, this one's for your abs. This one's for your

00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:40.780

glutes. This one's for your quads. This one, you know, this one's for hip extension.

00:43:40.980 --> 00:43:43.960

This one's for spinal mobility, whatever it might be. And it's like,

00:43:44.040 --> 00:43:48.200

okay, well, is there a cue that will increase this person's spinal mobility

00:43:48.200 --> 00:43:50.420

in this move? If so, that's the one I should use.

00:43:50.880 --> 00:43:54.100

And I shouldn't worry about which way their toes are pointing or whatever,

00:43:54.540 --> 00:43:56.200

if that's not the point of move. Yeah.

00:43:58.342 --> 00:44:01.702

Yeah, having a pure focus of what every exercise is designed for.

00:44:01.902 --> 00:44:05.322

It also helps with class planning because if you're trying to create a full-body

00:44:05.322 --> 00:44:08.442

workout, you have to know what the prime movement is in every exercise.

00:44:08.742 --> 00:44:11.562

Right. So otherwise, you're going to accidentally create a class which is 70%

00:44:11.562 --> 00:44:13.722

glutes or something like that.

00:44:14.262 --> 00:44:16.862

So you have to be able to kind of break it down. This is surprising.

00:44:17.042 --> 00:44:22.962

Like I saw, and shout out to the Pilates snob because I think we disagree on a lot of stuff.

00:44:23.462 --> 00:44:27.602

I'm pretty sure she doesn't listen to this podcast, but if you do, respect.

00:44:28.342 --> 00:44:31.862

We disagree on a lot of stuff, but there's some stuff I agree with her on.

00:44:31.982 --> 00:44:37.302

But this is one thing that I disagreed with her on, that she did a post saying,

00:44:37.422 --> 00:44:41.582

like, oh, someone's doing this, like, basically a tuck on the reformer, hands on the carriage,

00:44:41.742 --> 00:44:44.262

feet on the foot bar, and then, like, pulling the carriage in on a light spring

00:44:44.262 --> 00:44:51.882

sort of thing, and saying, like, oh, well, you can do that on the chair,

00:44:51.882 --> 00:44:54.562

when you're standing on the chair and pushing the paddle down.

00:44:54.642 --> 00:44:58.222

But, like, what she missed was, like, well, the resistance is coming from the opposite direction.

00:44:58.422 --> 00:45:02.862

So one's about abs and hip flexors, the other one's about glutes and adductors, right?

00:45:03.122 --> 00:45:06.422

And it's like, okay, it's the same movement, hip flexion extension.

00:45:07.262 --> 00:45:11.362

Okay, but it's like, it's a different exercise because you're targeting the

00:45:11.362 --> 00:45:13.482

exact opposite muscle group.

00:45:13.662 --> 00:45:17.842

And I think that's something a lot of people get super confused about in Pilates

00:45:17.842 --> 00:45:21.062

is going, okay, this movement looks like this other movement,

00:45:21.102 --> 00:45:23.302

but the resistance is coming from

00:45:23.302 --> 00:45:27.722

the opposite direction, therefore it is actually not the same exercise.

00:45:29.103 --> 00:45:33.183

Oh, my God. The amount of times I'll train someone and they don't know the difference

00:45:33.183 --> 00:45:36.703

between push and pull because technically the movement is the same, right?

00:45:37.363 --> 00:45:41.903

You know, the arms are moving in and out, but one is you're working against

00:45:41.903 --> 00:45:45.823

the load and it's obviously then a different outcome on the body,

00:45:45.943 --> 00:45:46.583

different muscle groups.

00:45:46.803 --> 00:45:50.103

You know, one is the effort of pushing away from the body. One is the effort

00:45:50.103 --> 00:45:51.543

of bringing it in towards the body.

00:45:52.183 --> 00:45:55.563

Like, it's something as simple as that. If you don't know the difference in

00:45:55.563 --> 00:45:58.103

that and you're trying to teach group to form a class, it's going to be a disaster

00:45:58.103 --> 00:46:00.043

because you have to understand that.

00:46:00.163 --> 00:46:02.823

That's real simple. The difference between a chest press and a shoulder press,

00:46:03.103 --> 00:46:05.703

the amount of people that don't understand that, crazy.

00:46:06.063 --> 00:46:11.123

So the most basic, simple things like that, terminology, you have to understand

00:46:11.123 --> 00:46:13.563

that to be able to be effective in this space.

00:46:16.963 --> 00:46:19.583

What you were saying before, I remember we had chats in the past,

00:46:19.723 --> 00:46:23.383

you know, we were kind of going, you had an experience, I think,

00:46:23.563 --> 00:46:26.443

with the Stop Pilates training back in the day and uh.

00:46:27.699 --> 00:46:33.639

So you're asking the instructor of instructors how this exercise targets the

00:46:33.639 --> 00:46:36.039

hamstrings, but they're unable to kind of explain it.

00:46:36.239 --> 00:46:39.699

Like that is zeroing in on the problem.

00:46:39.919 --> 00:46:43.059

You know what I mean? Like if fundamentally there's a lack of understanding,

00:46:43.299 --> 00:46:48.659

you know, even in high places in these institutions, then it has a flow-on effect

00:46:48.659 --> 00:46:50.019

to everyone else, you know.

00:46:50.319 --> 00:46:56.619

So this kind of simplicity and it's important.

00:46:56.619 --> 00:47:01.079

You have to understand these things you can't just uh discount

00:47:01.079 --> 00:47:04.439

or discredit the effect of an exercise and

00:47:04.439 --> 00:47:07.219

just kind of have like

00:47:07.219 --> 00:47:09.859

magical thinking that it will just be okay like it's not going

00:47:09.859 --> 00:47:12.619

to just be okay you know you need to know exactly what's going on

00:47:12.619 --> 00:47:15.259

yeah this has been

00:47:15.259 --> 00:47:18.279

a great conversation i look forward to our to

00:47:18.279 --> 00:47:21.019

our next one what um what are

00:47:21.019 --> 00:47:23.699

you you know what's your main focus these days because you're kind of

00:47:23.699 --> 00:47:26.439

like a real polymath you know you've got your you do your

00:47:26.439 --> 00:47:29.879

workshops around the world you've got your studio business you

00:47:29.879 --> 00:47:32.899

have a training like course that

00:47:32.899 --> 00:47:36.779

we teach instructors like so you know what do you how do you spend your time

00:47:36.779 --> 00:47:39.439

these days and what's on what's on the cards for you on the next month or two

00:47:39.439 --> 00:47:46.339

um well i've got some big trips coming up i'm back to the us and i'm going to

00:47:46.339 --> 00:47:51.339

come back to the uk uh slash europe in november um.

00:47:54.328 --> 00:48:02.868

Yeah, I've been working with a training organization to create an instructor

00:48:02.868 --> 00:48:06.768

training course which is kind

00:48:06.768 --> 00:48:10.268

of a new pathway in the sense that it's not going to be based on Pilates'

00:48:10.428 --> 00:48:13.508

methodology or adhering to any kind of traditional systems.

00:48:13.508 --> 00:48:17.008

It's going to be purely based on my methodology and my systems and still provide

00:48:17.008 --> 00:48:20.948

people the accreditation required to teach group performer. And it's going to be worldwide.

00:48:20.968 --> 00:48:24.148

So that's going to be a big thing I'm ticking off.

00:48:26.668 --> 00:48:31.448

And potentially movement in the ownership space, potentially going to either

00:48:31.448 --> 00:48:36.188

be selling or buying a studio at North Melbourne. So it's going to be a big year.

00:48:38.888 --> 00:48:42.108

And, yeah, there's a lot of exciting things. I suppose if you look at day-to-day,

00:48:42.508 --> 00:48:45.728

I'm kind of getting back into the content creation stuff a lot more now.

00:48:45.848 --> 00:48:50.848

I'm working on my podcast, kind of branching out to speak to a lot more people

00:48:50.848 --> 00:48:54.188

that I even have never personally met before, just interested in their message.

00:48:55.048 --> 00:48:59.448

So I'm probably going to be, especially on these trips overseas,

00:48:59.648 --> 00:49:01.068

trying to speak to as many people as possible.

00:49:02.628 --> 00:49:05.288

But I don't know. I also feel like a little bit of intensity.

00:49:06.388 --> 00:49:10.948

Intensity in the sense that let's just do as much as possible now,

00:49:11.148 --> 00:49:12.568

like just get out there and do it.

00:49:13.308 --> 00:49:16.408

I know in the past they kind of went through different periods where I was like,

00:49:16.468 --> 00:49:18.388

you know, like I'll get around to it one day.

00:49:18.548 --> 00:49:21.688

But honestly now I just feel like I've got my foot down, like let's go.

00:49:21.928 --> 00:49:24.408

Like I don't even care if it fails. Honestly, I just want to do everything.

00:49:24.608 --> 00:49:27.288

So I feel pretty pumped up right now.

00:49:28.748 --> 00:49:31.748

I can't wait to see how the year pans out for you.

00:49:31.928 --> 00:49:36.408

Like, yeah, I've got a lot of respect for you, Nathan. I really enjoy our conversations

00:49:36.408 --> 00:49:40.388

and I'm glad to call you a friend. And I think you're doing great things in the industry, mate.

00:49:41.768 --> 00:49:44.108

Oh, thanks, Raph. I appreciate it, mate. Appreciate your time.

00:49:44.948 --> 00:49:48.788

And, yeah, thank you so much for the opportunity as always. Likewise. See you soon.