0:00:00.800,0:00:08.000

a black executive perspective look man 

they didn't get a chance to play chess

0:00:08.000,0:00:14.160

they had to play Checker Let's talk about it 

t openly and honestly there was a lot of smart

0:00:14.160,0:00:20.040

kids there they black executive perspective 

now my story is not unique there's thousands

0:00:20.040,0:00:27.120

of Professionals of color who have experiences 

like mine a black executive perspective whether

0:00:27.120,0:00:31.160

you're aware of it or not it's a topic that 

is often avoided we'll discuss race and how

0:00:31.160,0:00:39.160

it plays a factor and how we didn't even talk 

about this topic cuz we were afraid a black

0:00:39.160,0:00:46.680

executive perspective today diversity equity 

and inclusion de and programs are widespread

0:00:46.680,0:00:51.960

in Corporate America but there's a problem 

they're often ineffective at creating better

0:00:51.960,0:00:58.280

environments for employees these programs allow 

companies to check the dni box but they fail at

0:00:58.280,0:01:03.360

their most basic objective of changing changing 

people's mindsets to be more inclusive why is it

0:01:03.360,0:01:09.000

so hard to implement effective Dei programs 

more importantly what needs to change to

0:01:09.000,0:01:15.200

create more inclusive workplaces in today's 

episode the black square is De working we

0:01:15.200,0:01:22.160

will discuss these areas as well as the history 

the goal challenges the push back and possible

0:01:22.160,0:01:31.960

solutions welcome to a black executive perspective 

podcast the space where we discuss all matters

0:01:31.960,0:01:38.040

related to race especially race in Corporate 

America I'm your host Tony tidbit and I've

0:01:38.040,0:01:44.040

been in Corporate America for about 35 years so 

I'm ready to sit down break down these barriers

0:01:44.040,0:01:51.800

and address the topic of race in the workplace in 

this episode we will dive deep into the concept

0:01:51.800,0:01:59.440

of Dei and the evolving Dei departments within 

companies in 2020 hundreds of companies posted

0:01:59.440,0:02:05.040

black Square on their social media feeds 

to show their support for the injustices

0:02:05.040,0:02:12.480

the black community faced and made pledges to be 

more inclusive although Dei departments exist are

0:02:12.480,0:02:21.000

companies truly implementing change has changed 

truly emerged since 2020 Our Guest today lesie

0:02:21.000,0:02:28.120

drish vice president director of diversity Equity 

inclusion at Federal Home Loan Bank of Chicago

0:02:28.120,0:02:35.760

will help us examine the history of Dei why it's 

needed and is it still working so let me give you

0:02:35.760,0:02:41.760

tell you a little bit about lesie as VP director 

of diversity equity and inclusion for federal

0:02:41.760,0:02:48.720

Home Loan Bank of Chicago lesie implements and 

monitors programs that Advance diversity inclusion

0:02:48.720,0:02:54.320

journey within the bank she is responsible 

for strategically supporting leadership on

0:02:54.320,0:03:02.760

Dei focusing on Innovative engaging and Cutting 

Edge initiatives that D drive Dei deeper into the

0:03:02.760,0:03:10.400

bank's organizational culture lesie has over 25 

years experience developing Innovative diversity

0:03:10.400,0:03:18.600

volunteer and educational programs with proven 

ability to drive performance program Improvement

0:03:18.600,0:03:25.680

quality initiatives and quantifiable results 

she has been recognized for community outreach

0:03:25.680,0:03:34.240

and development of programs that engage support 

organiz AAL Mission Vision and strategy in 2019

0:03:34.240,0:03:40.320

lesie was named as a Chicago Defender woman 

of Excellence she is currently serves as a

0:03:40.320,0:03:47.400

board of gads Hill Center and is a mentor for the 

National Association of African-Americans in Human

0:03:47.400,0:03:55.640

Resources prior to joining fhlbc lesie was the 

inclusion and diversity manager for Tyson Foods

0:03:55.640,0:04:02.720

she was manager of diversity inclusion at the 

YMCA of America and the director of education at

0:04:02.720,0:04:10.360

Chicago Urban League in addition she was educator 

at Morgan Park High School in Chicago Illinois I

0:04:10.360,0:04:17.560

love that lesie earned her master's educational 

leadership from National Lewis University a master

0:04:17.560,0:04:24.040

of public educa administration from University 

of Illinois at Chicago and a Bachelor of Arts in

0:04:24.040,0:04:32.840

education from the Paul University lesie Welcome 

to a black executive perspective podcast thank you

0:04:32.840,0:04:38.760

so much Tony I appreciate it I mean you're very 

accomplished so you know we're blessed to have

0:04:38.760,0:04:44.560

you and especially when it comes to this topic 

because obviously this is a you know especially

0:04:44.560,0:04:50.480

over the last three years this has been a huge 

thing there's a lot of things going on positively

0:04:50.480,0:04:57.560

negatively so we definitely W to you know uh get 

your expert opinion what's going on I have some

0:04:57.560,0:05:03.840

questions for you our audience is obviously they 

all work in Corporate America their companies are

0:05:03.840,0:05:09.520

having Dei initiatives so it'll be good to hear 

from you you know how everything is going and your

0:05:09.520,0:05:15.920

thoughts in terms of taking it to the next level 

and then what Solutions you see in terms of making

0:05:15.920,0:05:22.760

Dei very uh uh efficient and more importantly here 

to stay but before we go to that we love to hear a

0:05:22.760,0:05:29.080

little bit of your background tell us a little bit 

about you well um so I am born and raised Chicago

0:05:29.080,0:05:34.520

Illinois and so you mentioned that I taught high 

school at Morgan Park High School and I'll be

0:05:34.520,0:05:41.080

honest I graduated from that school four years 

prior and I walked right back in as a teacher so

0:05:41.080,0:05:48.960

I love it so I I I truly believe that in community 

I believe in um serving and working with children

0:05:48.960,0:05:55.400

and providing opportunities for them I uh did 

that for a number of years but then I went to

0:05:55.400,0:06:00.600

go work for the Urban League and it's really 

interesting because I started at as a volunteer

0:06:00.600,0:06:05.840

for the Chicago Urban League and I became a 

part of their young professionals auxiliary

0:06:05.840,0:06:12.080

and so that ke helped me hone my leadership skills 

and it really got me connected into what Corporate

0:06:12.080,0:06:19.200

America was doing in Chicago specifically because 

I was able to have a much better understanding of

0:06:19.200,0:06:23.840

um the black experience in Corporate America what 

Young professionals were experiencing in Corporate

0:06:23.840,0:06:29.520

America and so I went after I volunteered I went 

to go work for the Urban League for several years

0:06:29.520,0:06:35.760

years as their director of education so my job 

was primarily to expose young people to Corporate

0:06:35.760,0:06:42.160

America and help them understand the pathway to 

get from where they are or where they were into

0:06:42.160,0:06:48.720

the sea suite and so we partnered with several um 

companies in the Chicago land area I was able to

0:06:48.720,0:06:53.640

work with a number of young people and they're now 

working at Luke Capital they're doing all kinds

0:06:53.640,0:06:58.960

of great things um they were working for John 

Rogers here in Chicago so that's been great and

0:06:58.960,0:07:05.920

from there I went over to the Y and um I really 

that's when I kind of shifted away from just the

0:07:05.920,0:07:12.200

black experience but more into diversity equity 

and inclusion so in that role I traveled from

0:07:12.200,0:07:19.000

Maine to Hawaii and I helped wise all across the 

country um think about their Dei strategies and

0:07:19.000,0:07:25.720

what they could do to incorporate um diversity 

equity and inclusion into their YMCAs so I made

0:07:25.720,0:07:30.320

that transition into Corporate America and so 

now I work for a bank but if you had told my

0:07:30.320,0:07:34.960

high school self that I would be working at a bank 

I would have looked at you like you had five heads

0:07:34.960,0:07:41.480

because I thought I was going to be a teacher 

for life so well listen number one uh I love

0:07:41.480,0:07:48.280

that background I love you know how you know your 

your journey has taking you into different things

0:07:48.280,0:07:54.640

different areas and then more importantly um how 

you have helped so many people so I hear you when

0:07:54.640,0:08:00.160

you said hey you thought you would just still be 

you know a Chicago teacher but more importantly

0:08:00.160,0:08:05.320

I'm glad you're not because you've really touched 

a lot of lives in terms of what you've been able

0:08:05.320,0:08:11.640

to do and then I I I I and we'll talk we'll dive 

into it a little bit in terms of when we when we

0:08:11.640,0:08:17.800

uh get into the uh discussion but you know for you 

to to work at an organization and then be able to

0:08:17.800,0:08:23.480

get a a view of the African-American experience 

and want to be able to to to understand and help

0:08:23.480,0:08:28.080

it that is awesome and that's one of the things 

that we definitely want to dive into today to get

0:08:28.080,0:08:35.240

more people to to uh you know uh break through the 

Clutter I should say and and be able to see some

0:08:35.240,0:08:40.560

of the things that people of color go through 

but before we go to that you seem like a very

0:08:40.560,0:08:45.920

talented individual okay you you like multiple 

Talent so I'm gonna this is one of this is our

0:08:45.920,0:08:54.000

Icebreaker session okay so I'm gonna ask you this 

question all right what superpower you wish you

0:08:54.000,0:09:06.880

had I would suppose the superpower I would want 

to have is to be able to read people's minds um

0:09:06.880,0:09:13.840

working in the Dei space A lot of times people 

don't necessarily feel comfortable sharing their

0:09:13.840,0:09:19.960

true opinions because they how they are how they 

think they might be perceived and so right but

0:09:19.960,0:09:24.760

really until you can understand what people are 

thinking and why they're thinking that and what

0:09:24.760,0:09:31.840

experiences that they've had um you really can't 

move the need and so being able to read people's

0:09:31.840,0:09:38.720

minds is definitely something I would I would 

cherish I would you listen so I got to share this

0:09:38.720,0:09:44.280

with you somebody asked me that question years ago 

I said the exact same thing I would love because

0:09:44.280,0:09:50.240

I'm a deep thinker and I would love to and I 

like to you know relate to people and and be

0:09:50.240,0:09:54.880

very empathetic and see their points of view and 

stuff and so I said I would love to read people's

0:09:54.880,0:09:59.680

mind then I thought about it it's like could 

I handle what they think what they're thinking

0:09:59.680,0:10:07.880

about and I don't think I could so you know you 

probably can but I don't think I could but thanks

0:10:07.880,0:10:13.600

for sharing that with you so um who are your 

favorite people that you follow in business if

0:10:13.600,0:10:27.400

you have any so I really enjoy following David 

Casey um to be the um Chief diversity officer

0:10:27.400,0:10:35.040

for CVS health now he's doing some other things 

but he had I had the opportunity to meet him um

0:10:35.040,0:10:41.760

a few years ago and how he was talking about Dei 

and especially with and as I'm sure we'll talk

0:10:41.760,0:10:49.200

about later with social media and how CBS Health 

was really experiencing understanding communities

0:10:49.200,0:10:55.480

through um social media and understanding 

challenges in different communities um was

0:10:55.480,0:11:01.920

really a thoughtful perspective so he's definitely 

someone that I watch all the time awesome you know

0:11:01.920,0:11:07.000

what I'm going to look him up because he sounds 

somebody you know um very intriguing and seems

0:11:07.000,0:11:11.480

like he's got his foot on the pulse of what's 

going on from a Dei standpoint and then the

0:11:11.480,0:11:20.160

last question who had the most influence in your 

life I would say my father um honestly my father

0:11:20.160,0:11:28.400

um is black well was black um but he grew up 

he was born in 1930 and um he uh his parents

0:11:28.400,0:11:34.840

both passed when he was very young and so um he 

raised himself from the time he was 12 years old

0:11:34.840,0:11:46.240

in Chicago and he really just exemplified what a 

true um generous soul is and what and he always

0:11:46.240,0:11:53.320

taught me um it's very important to teach people 

who don't know any better so he went through a lot

0:11:53.320,0:12:01.000

of experiences in his life and because of the way 

I look um people have said strange things to me um

0:12:01.000,0:12:08.800

not knowing that I'm um black and and so um I have 

always taken that advice that he gave me to teach

0:12:08.800,0:12:14.080

people who don't know any better and help them 

um on their Journey so that's that's something

0:12:14.080,0:12:20.760

that kind of followed me into my career and that's 

probably why I'm in Dei right now that is awesome

0:12:20.760,0:12:25.160

that is awesome thank you for sharing that is 

great and yeah I'm pretty sure he's very proud

0:12:25.160,0:12:33.880

of you as well yeah so you ready to talk about it 

I am I'm always ready to talk about Dei all right

0:12:33.880,0:12:39.200

let's talk about it let's talk about it always 

what we try to do here on a black executive pers

0:12:39.200,0:12:45.080

perspective podcast obviously we talk about a lot 

of topics but we W to you know first start off to

0:12:45.080,0:12:52.240

make it real simple so my first question is give 

us some historical background when did Dei start

0:12:52.240,0:12:57.960

you know when did it start taking off you know 

because a lot of times people think to be fair

0:12:57.960,0:13:05.400

Dei started in 2020 okay after George Floyd right 

because that's when most people heard about Dei

0:13:05.400,0:13:11.600

but give us a little background sure so I would 

say you know with the Civil Rights Movement um

0:13:11.600,0:13:19.240

Dei really started then because that's when a lot 

of legislation was passed that really impacted

0:13:19.240,0:13:26.120

people in the workplace so we had the Equal Pay 

Act of 1963 you have the title 7 uh Civil Rights

0:13:26.120,0:13:35.400

Act of 1964 you have the um Employment Act of 

1967 where people um who were over 40 couldn't

0:13:35.400,0:13:41.200

get discriminated against in the workplace so 

it wasn't even then even though it's a part of

0:13:41.200,0:13:46.800

the Civil Rights Movement it still was looking at 

women it was still talking and taking into account

0:13:46.800,0:13:53.120

all of those other dimensions of diversity that 

aren't really um thought about so from there you

0:13:53.120,0:13:58.160

know that's kind of when or a company started 

saying okay well we need to start doing some

0:13:58.160,0:14:04.600

things to to put some practices into place to make 

sure that we are obeying the law essentially but

0:14:04.600,0:14:10.360

then in the 80s you had kind of a shift and then 

there were more women coming into the workplace

0:14:10.360,0:14:15.720

you also had a lot more um people of color coming 

into the workplace so in the 80s that's when a

0:14:15.720,0:14:22.200

lot of those employee resource groups started 

to take place and employee resource groups are

0:14:22.200,0:14:28.480

just generally groups of individuals that share 

a common dimension of diversity where they talk

0:14:28.480,0:14:33.440

about their experience in the workplace they work 

with their companies to help them think through

0:14:33.440,0:14:40.160

how they could recruit better and how they could 

make things more um uh equal for people in their

0:14:40.160,0:14:48.440

workplace so those that launched in the 19 um 80s 

then in the 1990s that's when companies started to

0:14:48.440,0:14:55.960

say hey wait a second um there's a huge Market out 

there for different um people and we can't just

0:14:55.960,0:15:01.240

Market to white people we have to be a lot more 

cognizant of you know what we're selling who we're

0:15:01.240,0:15:05.560

selling to why we're selling these products how 

they're going to benefit these other communities

0:15:05.560,0:15:12.880

and so in the 90s that was that shift I would 

say into really thinking about Multicultural

0:15:12.880,0:15:19.800

um Market development and then you know we have 

all these things happening so like in 1993 you

0:15:19.800,0:15:25.760

have the Family Medical Leave Act happening um 

and that allows people to now take unpaid leave

0:15:25.760,0:15:31.600

for child care but that happened in the 90s so 

there are all these kind of legislative things

0:15:31.600,0:15:38.840

that are happening you know you have uh in 2020 

um discrimination against lgbtq individuals is

0:15:38.840,0:15:45.960

introduced so it's been these are topics that 

have been ongoing since right the early 60s so

0:15:45.960,0:15:56.320

if I'm hearing you correctly 63 64 civil rights 

so we're talking 60 years ago 1980s hey we we

0:15:56.320,0:16:04.720

want to expand to more diverse people increase 

the talent pool um so I I totally get that and

0:16:04.720,0:16:11.600

then obviously you know other laws disa for people 

that are uh you know disabled we want to make sure

0:16:11.600,0:16:19.280

that we include them and then you know LTB lgbtq 

we want to you know make sure that you know we're

0:16:19.280,0:16:24.080

including everybody under the tree and making sure 

they all have an equal opportunity is that correct

0:16:24.080,0:16:29.520

correct okay so I'm gonna I'm going to throw a 

couple of things at you and I want to get your

0:16:29.520,0:16:38.360

take on this okay so this is an an article from 

CBS News money watch this was March of 2021 and

0:16:38.360,0:16:44.040

the headline says it could take a hundred years 

for black employees to catch up in Corporate

0:16:44.040,0:16:50.040

America this study finds and the study was by 

a corporate counseling firm called McKenzie all

0:16:50.040,0:16:57.720

right and what it said is is that and this was 

2021 this is after George Floyd black Americans

0:16:57.720,0:17:08.000

represent s % of managers compared to 66% for 

white people okay 15% for asian-americans and 8%

0:17:08.000,0:17:15.040

for Hispanics all right the percentage of black 

Americans in senior roles senior vice president

0:17:15.040,0:17:24.360

you vice president senior vice president is like 

3.2% and then when you get up to CEO it's .8% yeah

0:17:24.360,0:17:29.760

now one of the things I found interesting is when 

I looked at this they even broke down some of the

0:17:29.760,0:17:35.080

different you know from the different groups 

right women uh the percentage of women who are

0:17:35.080,0:17:44.000

CE CEOs and CFOs is the highest ever okay at in 

2021 it was 6.9% of companies were led by female

0:17:44.000,0:17:54.160

CEOs and 15.1 had Fe female CFOs right it did 

say the number of black CFOs nearly doubl from

0:17:54.160,0:18:01.280

2020 to 2021 which I don't know I couldn't find 

that number but black CEO stayed stagnant right

0:18:01.280,0:18:11.680

six 682 companies in the study uh people of color 

had uh 73 73% was 73 CFO positions which was an

0:18:11.680,0:18:17.400

all-time high at 11% so it seems like okay some 

things are working here's where I wanted to get

0:18:17.400,0:18:23.040

to latinx and Hispanic people represent the 

largest racial and ethnic minority group in

0:18:23.040,0:18:31.480

United States comprising of 18% of the total 

population yet found only 20% 20 Latin and

0:18:31.480,0:18:40.560

Hispanic people served as chief executive officers 

in 2021 down two from 20 I mean down two from 23

0:18:40.560,0:18:49.840

the year before while black people make up 133% of 

the country there were only six black CEOs in 2021

0:18:49.840,0:18:57.320

however asian-americans who comprise of almost 6% 

of the US population had the most representation

0:18:57.320,0:19:05.960

at the CEO level where they were 40 during 2021 

and then 41 in 2020 so and obviously I'm probably

0:19:05.960,0:19:12.280

not telling you anything that you you you're not 

aware of right but based on that you know and

0:19:12.280,0:19:18.480

just going backing up a little bit Dei it didn't 

start fully in this whole uh premise the way it

0:19:18.480,0:19:26.600

is now in 1963 1964 but it's been around has been 

evolving okay correct So based on these numbers do

0:19:26.600,0:19:33.320

you I mean is it you and again I don't know what 

numbers were uh and probably was was probably uh

0:19:33.320,0:19:39.800

Neil back in the early 60s in terms of people of 

color in in Corporate America at high levels but

0:19:39.800,0:19:44.480

just hearing those stats what's your thoughts 

I'd love to hear your thoughts on that well I

0:19:44.480,0:19:54.080

mean you're not you're not saying anything um that 

most people don't know so I'm not um but what but

0:19:54.080,0:20:00.640

what I will say is um you know you're right I mean 

the challenge for people of color in um Corporate

0:20:00.640,0:20:08.480

America is is great and I would say there's some 

really interesting research that came out I want

0:20:08.480,0:20:15.800

to say in 2020 2021 from um porn fairy and it 

really talks about black and brown people of

0:20:15.800,0:20:24.920

color in um Corporate America and why they were so 

behind and so what they found is that um people of

0:20:24.920,0:20:34.080

color have to prove themselves more than other 

groups do in Corporate America absolutely so

0:20:34.080,0:20:41.880

what happens is a lot of times people of color 

especially black people they have to take a lot

0:20:41.880,0:20:51.640

more risk on than other um people in their um 

companies do in order to prove that they have

0:20:51.640,0:20:58.440

the capability of earning those titles so what we 

what that research found is that fewer than 10% %

0:20:58.440,0:21:04.880

of black p&l leaders I mean 10% of p&l leaders 

are black because a lot of times they're not

0:21:04.880,0:21:12.080

taking those profit and loss um jobs they have 

more jobs that are in like um it or they're in

0:21:12.080,0:21:16.320

human resources or those types of things and 

really when you want someone that's going to

0:21:16.320,0:21:23.600

be a CEO you want them in that p&l uh place 

the other thing is um when black leaders take

0:21:23.600,0:21:28.880

on those roles they're a lot of times being put in 

situations where they're not NE necessarily giving

0:21:28.880,0:21:37.160

the given the same support or resources in order 

to be um successful and so the other thing is they

0:21:37.160,0:21:42.960

don't have that Network that's built in for them 

necessarily that other their white counterparts

0:21:42.960,0:21:48.720

do and so that's what makes it so much more 

challenging and then we can talk a lot about like

0:21:48.720,0:21:54.840

sponsorship you know who knows your name how they 

know that you work you can talk a lot about bias

0:21:54.840,0:22:00.360

you can say you know I want someone that went to 

the same school I did that had the same manager I

0:22:00.360,0:22:08.760

did so there are a number of factors besides just 

doing these Dei programs that impact how and where

0:22:08.760,0:22:15.640

um black leaders get into those seite positions 

so number one thank you actually you kind of I

0:22:15.640,0:22:19.280

love you because you you know those were some 

of the questions I was going to get to and you

0:22:19.280,0:22:27.520

got right to it so I love it right I love it so 

let me ask you this so if that's the case uh and

0:22:27.520,0:22:33.920

and and and and correct me if I'm wrong um I know 

based on what you just got finished telling us Dei

0:22:33.920,0:22:40.280

you know officially started in the early 6s and 

evolved but it kind of took off after the George

0:22:40.280,0:22:46.040

Floyd thing yeah where you saw like I what like in 

my monologue where I said a lot of companies said

0:22:46.040,0:22:51.640

hey we're going to you know restructure stuff 

we're going to make sure that our company is

0:22:51.640,0:23:00.480

inclusive we saw companies take out ads you know 

on television uh you know you have companies you

0:23:00.480,0:23:05.800

know have signs in their Windows we're inclusive 

we're this we're that we're this and that right

0:23:05.800,0:23:14.680

now over the last year or so we've seen a lot 

of companies let their dni officer um go we've

0:23:14.680,0:23:21.560

seen a lot of companies cut back on Dei right the 

numbers that I read earlier and then the the the

0:23:21.560,0:23:28.000

the stats that you just got finished articulating 

in terms of the you know the issues why so if

0:23:28.000,0:23:37.800

that's the ca why are these companies not really 

100% behind making a change because it seems like

0:23:37.800,0:23:42.680

they're saying what people want they think 

people want to hear but when the numbers come

0:23:42.680,0:23:49.640

out we don't we see if we see any progress It's 

marginal and a lot of times we see a step a step

0:23:49.640,0:23:59.000

back I have to do we have enough time for you 

to answer that because you're now talking about

0:23:59.000,0:24:10.880

my job so yeah um so no I mean I will say I 

will say um 2020 has been um was just a just

0:24:10.880,0:24:16.840

a reckoning there there are certain things that I 

have learned just in my experience about whether

0:24:16.840,0:24:25.360

or not companies are truly invested in Dei so um 

and so yeah people can take out some ads they can

0:24:25.360,0:24:31.240

say hey we're going to do this we're you know they 

can hold hands and sing Kumbaya and you know say

0:24:31.240,0:24:36.400

oh this is terrible you know I mean and and and 

that's that's fine because that's what's expected

0:24:36.400,0:24:43.960

of them in the moment but that doesn't necessarily 

mean that that is what is taking priority for them

0:24:43.960,0:24:48.960

in those organizations so really when you're 

looking at and this is what I counsel you know

0:24:48.960,0:24:53.000

I have a lot of people that reach out and they 

say hey Leslie I'm interested in getting into

0:24:53.000,0:24:59.040

the Dei space and I'm like okay you have to be 

very thoughtful about where you go um if you want

0:24:59.040,0:25:04.480

to be in the Dei space And so there's certain 

things that you have to look for when you are

0:25:04.480,0:25:13.000

um seeing if a company is really committed to 

Dei one you want to see if the leadership has

0:25:13.000,0:25:19.560

the wherewithal to talk about where they are 

publicly and they are transparent with their

0:25:19.560,0:25:25.080

information and with their data because if they're 

not telling you what their company looks like and

0:25:25.080,0:25:30.280

who's in their company and what they're trying to 

do and that's not coming from the CEO then they'll

0:25:30.280,0:25:39.480

let you know that they're not that invested two a 

lot of organizations kind of embed Dei into their

0:25:39.480,0:25:47.800

HR department and so you have to look at where the 

Dei person falls so you want to find out like who

0:25:47.800,0:25:54.240

the Dei person is reporting to are they reporting 

directly to the CEO are they reporting to the chro

0:25:54.240,0:26:00.400

are they reporting to someone who reports to the 

chro so those are all things that are very telling

0:26:00.400,0:26:07.360

about how committed a company is to Dei um in 

my organization one of the reasons I joined was

0:26:07.360,0:26:13.680

because I had a conversation with my CEO at the 

time and he was very clear about where he stood

0:26:13.680,0:26:18.480

with Dei and he gave me some specific examples 

the other thing that really intrigued me about

0:26:18.480,0:26:23.560

my particular bank is that we have a separate 

office of diversity equity and inclusion and

0:26:23.560,0:26:31.280

my I report into the chief diversity officer who 

reports into the CDO but my entire job is not HR

0:26:31.280,0:26:36.720

it's a separate from HR but then I also get 

involved in things like we do a lot of work

0:26:36.720,0:26:41.440

with our members we're a cooperative bank so we do 

things for members so I do a lot of Education of

0:26:41.440,0:26:48.360

our members but we also do a lot of work around 

Supplier Diversity so if a company is truly

0:26:48.360,0:26:55.920

committed to Dei it's not just an HR involvement 

but it's across the company and then lastly you

0:26:55.920,0:27:03.040

want to look at what resources um those companies 

are putting into Dei are they putting in money to

0:27:03.040,0:27:09.920

you know put those ads out or are they putting in 

money to um put people into leadership development

0:27:09.920,0:27:16.320

programs are they supporting pipeline programs 

are they supporting training programs for their

0:27:16.320,0:27:21.760

employees and so you want to take a broad look 

at what is that com what's important for that

0:27:21.760,0:27:26.920

company and I will say a lot of companies they 

don't you know it's it's smoking mirrors you

0:27:26.920,0:27:32.520

know right so when I saw you know during 2020 you 

know all of a sudden everybody was was jumping on

0:27:32.520,0:27:37.400

this bandwagon but you really have to go a 

lot deeper into companies to see where they

0:27:37.400,0:27:44.240

are around Dei got it got it this you know number 

one thank you for that you know one of the things

0:27:44.240,0:27:51.200

I struggle with you know and and maybe I drank 

the Kool-Aid in 2020 um thinking that we finally

0:27:51.200,0:27:57.320

was gonna see a reckoning um and everybody was 

saying the same thing but I want to back up to

0:27:57.320,0:28:05.360

what you said a minute ago about a company being 

100% committed because what I've seen at a lot of

0:28:05.360,0:28:11.520

company they're not they yes they'll hire they'll 

hire a chief diversity officer but not everybody

0:28:11.520,0:28:18.080

within the leadership uh uh uh uh Suite is on 

the same page corre right and when you don't

0:28:18.080,0:28:24.280

have everybody on the same page then eventually 

it falls by the wayside and then you know the

0:28:24.280,0:28:32.440

Dei person or that group is is frustrated yeah 

because they're trying to make change that's why

0:28:32.440,0:28:40.520

they're there but they can't get the Buy in all 

right now I want to Pivot to this most company

0:28:40.520,0:28:48.240

not most all companies care about one thing 

Revenue okay they care about the bottom line

0:28:48.240,0:28:52.720

and I've seen you know stuff and we're g to talk 

about it I've seen stuff that says hey having a

0:28:52.720,0:29:00.480

more diverse organization having people who brings 

different perspectives different thoughts can help

0:29:00.480,0:29:08.120

Drive business outcomes better if it was just 

a linear organization can you because to me I

0:29:08.120,0:29:15.600

think and again you tell me but I always thought 

that would be the key if you could show a company

0:29:15.600,0:29:21.680

that they're going to drive more Revenue by being 

more inclusive they should jump on board you know

0:29:21.680,0:29:29.280

both feed on so what's your thoughts on that I 

mean in theory yes but the the the the challenge

0:29:29.280,0:29:36.520

with being um inclusive is that it's hard it 

is um it takes a lot of time it takes a lot

0:29:36.520,0:29:44.200

of conflict resolution it takes a lot of empathy 

and um companies in my experience time is money

0:29:44.200,0:29:50.520

and so they um are looking to Dev develop and do 

things very quickly so they can drive you know

0:29:50.520,0:29:58.440

Drive sales and right but when you're really 

being an inclusive organization you have to do

0:29:58.440,0:30:05.760

a lot more work to get to that spot where people 

feel comfortable sharing their ideas and sharing

0:30:05.760,0:30:10.920

their thoughts and sharing those perspectives 

so a lot of times you know companies will say

0:30:10.920,0:30:15.320

okay we're going to bring some people in and 

we're going to hire all these people but then

0:30:15.320,0:30:20.560

they're not doing the work to get people to stay 

and they're not getting they're not doing the work

0:30:20.560,0:30:26.240

to educate people on how different cultures or 

different communities communicate how they view

0:30:26.240,0:30:32.480

the world how perspectives kind of see things 

and so because everyone's kind of looking for

0:30:32.480,0:30:39.880

that quick fix and inclusion is not a quick fix it 

just isn't and it comes with a lot of time effort

0:30:39.880,0:30:49.000

and empathy that a lot of companies they're not 

necessarily willing to to give So based on that

0:30:49.000,0:30:55.040

you know for my audience and for any person that 

works in Corporate America and for anybody who

0:30:55.040,0:31:02.520

has a Dei organization how is it being measured 

How would how would the average person who works

0:31:02.520,0:31:09.680

who's an entry level a mid manager know that 

their Dei program is working um really it's

0:31:09.680,0:31:16.720

about um the attrition rates um who's who's 

staying and who's um going it's also looking

0:31:16.720,0:31:24.160

at who's being promoted and um who's not being 

promoted so those are very key tangible types

0:31:24.160,0:31:31.080

of things that tell you that they're doing work um 

at my company we do a lot of work around Supplier

0:31:31.080,0:31:38.120

Diversity um so we measure how we are on boarding 

venders how we're supporting diverse businesses

0:31:38.120,0:31:44.720

so for example what we did um we have a very 

thoughtful Supplier Diversity Program and in

0:31:44.720,0:31:51.240

Chicago during the pandemic ironically we moved 

offices and so we built a brand new office and

0:31:51.240,0:31:58.360

what my company said they they said okay we're 

GNA have 50% of the vendors that are associated

0:31:58.360,0:32:03.280

with our move and that construction project 

are going to be diverse vendors and so they

0:32:03.280,0:32:09.720

were thoughtful they did a lot of research they 

did a lot of um relationship building and so as

0:32:09.720,0:32:17.080

a result of that 81% of our vendors that were 

associated with our um office move were diverse

0:32:17.080,0:32:23.800

vendors so it's really about looking at where 

your organization is and what it is that you're

0:32:23.800,0:32:28.600

kind of going to work at and how you're going 

to improve those things because that's another

0:32:28.600,0:32:33.760

thing that a lot of Dei um programs do they kind 

of boil the ocean they say okay we want to do this

0:32:33.760,0:32:38.160

we want to do that we want to do everything and 

and you can't and and you have to be thoughtful

0:32:38.160,0:32:42.520

and you have to look at Dei as a business and 

you have to say okay these are some goals this

0:32:42.520,0:32:47.400

is what I want to have this is where we are this 

is where I'm trying to be and then actively work

0:32:47.400,0:32:52.960

and create initiatives that are going to get you 

there that is outstanding and and and I just want

0:32:52.960,0:32:56.000

to back up a little bit because I want to make 

sure everybody's on the same page with what you

0:32:56.000,0:33:04.120

said right so first your company is 100% committed 

to Dei now let's be clear a lot of companies say

0:33:04.120,0:33:12.480

that but here's the to my question the employees 

can see that you're 100% committed because you

0:33:12.480,0:33:18.720

said we're g 50% of our vendors are going to be 

people of col people can see that so they can

0:33:18.720,0:33:25.240

see that you're actually doing what you're said 

you're going to do which I would imagine when you

0:33:25.240,0:33:31.160

talked about that one of the measure measuring 

sticks was attrition I would imagine when people

0:33:31.160,0:33:36.720

see that the company is actually 100% committed 

and then they can see some of the results they're

0:33:36.720,0:33:43.880

probably staying at your organization as well is 

that correct correct yes exactly exactly we know

0:33:43.880,0:33:51.040

that a lot of companies have Dei organ uh Dei 

departments we know they still struggle to be

0:33:51.040,0:33:57.320

able to to be effective because most of them 

are not 100% committed most of them to your

0:33:57.320,0:34:02.080

point of looking at the short putt so you know 

hey we gota you know we gotta drive Revenue now

0:34:02.080,0:34:08.320

they're not looking at the whole 18 whole whole 

course right the question I have is then why is

0:34:08.320,0:34:18.560

Dei under attack because out in the media sphere 

right you have everybody calling their woke or

0:34:18.560,0:34:25.360

you know they uh I'm GNA lose my job or you know 

there you know uh uh um these diverse we don't

0:34:25.360,0:34:32.120

want diversity and incl usion you know people are 

having uh political campaigns not talking about

0:34:32.120,0:34:36.800

you know we're going to save you from foreign 

enemies or we're going to make the economy better

0:34:36.800,0:34:43.160

or you know we're gonna build out infrastructure 

it's woke it's we don't want diversity inclusion

0:34:43.160,0:34:51.400

so if it ain't working the way it's supposed 

to but why are people attacking it you

0:34:51.400,0:34:56.880

know so I don't know if we 

have enough time to go into

0:34:59.520,0:35:11.400

I mean you know people don't like it when their 

environment is changing and they like things

0:35:11.400,0:35:19.240

to stay the way they are and our country is is 

Shifting and is changing and um and people are

0:35:19.240,0:35:27.800

nervous so we KN you know I mean statistics say 

that you know by 2050 it's exact majority minority

0:35:27.800,0:35:34.520

count you know blah you know all these things 

so so for so for people that this is Shifting

0:35:34.520,0:35:41.240

for that is very um it's a challenge for them 

because they don't know how to do that and so

0:35:41.240,0:35:47.160

and that's part of what's making and this is just 

my opinion making our country just so polarized

0:35:47.160,0:35:55.000

is the fact that people aren't willing to give 

up what they think they have and um oh can you

0:35:55.000,0:36:00.000

just back hold it for one second so you I just 

want to you said people are not willing to give

0:36:00.000,0:36:07.320

up what they think they have what did you mean 

by that I mean that there's a book and I can't

0:36:07.320,0:36:13.200

remember who wrote it but it's called the sum of 

all fears and basically what that book talks about

0:36:13.200,0:36:18.680

are all of these proposals that could have gone 

through government so they're talking about like

0:36:18.680,0:36:25.160

the unions they're talking about different Housing 

Programs different things that weren't necessarily

0:36:25.160,0:36:33.360

racially based but because of the context in which 

it was framed for people by certain people that

0:36:33.360,0:36:39.160

they were um talking about how they were going 

to lose something if this legislation went went

0:36:39.160,0:36:46.000

through and so as a result of that you know we 

have people that have been um influenced by the

0:36:46.000,0:36:52.000

media influenced by our government influenced by a 

lot of different people that aren't truly educated

0:36:52.000,0:36:57.800

on what are those things that could potentially 

benefit people to make things a little bit more

0:36:57.800,0:37:06.320

Equitable across the Spectrum and so I think that 

um because our country it's it's so racially based

0:37:06.320,0:37:14.640

um people are so it's such a a a difficult topic 

and finally um people you know especially black

0:37:14.640,0:37:20.800

people are are saying you know what this has been 

going on for years and they can give very specific

0:37:20.800,0:37:26.000

tangible examples but people are just saying well 

no that's not true I mean in Florida they're just

0:37:26.000,0:37:33.880

saying this slavery um benefited black people I 

mean so I mean people are just kind of uh spearing

0:37:33.880,0:37:38.480

you know this kind of rhetoric around because 

they're trying to make people think that they're

0:37:38.480,0:37:45.080

going to lose something if they aren't given you 

know if things shift or if things change and I

0:37:45.080,0:37:52.760

think that has a lot to do and so fear-mongering 

corre Zero Sum game and the strategy divide and

0:37:52.760,0:37:59.000

conquer absolutely right if we can separate them 

and they fight amongst themselves we can stay in

0:37:59.000,0:38:05.520

power right right you know obviously we have a 

lot of um you know white listeners to a black

0:38:05.520,0:38:12.880

executive perspective podcast and what you just 

got from understanding the majority of of of that

0:38:12.880,0:38:19.360

fear the majority of the Zero Sum game I'm G to 

lose out is coming from the white population what

0:38:19.360,0:38:27.400

would you say to our audience that are white 

um and calm their fears that University Equity

0:38:27.400,0:38:33.200

inclusion within their organization is a good 

thing and then more importantly is not to replace

0:38:33.200,0:38:42.400

them so I would love to hear your thoughts on 

that yeah I mean I think that what people have to

0:38:42.400,0:38:50.120

really recognize is that as Americans and really 

just for people in general in the world people

0:38:50.120,0:38:57.400

want the same thing they want to feel happy they 

want their children to be successful they want to

0:38:57.400,0:39:06.120

be able to um live and work most people want to 

work you know all they want everybody wants the

0:39:06.120,0:39:14.240

same things and so I think what you have to do is 

people have different experiences and perspectives

0:39:14.240,0:39:21.600

and so it's really about taking that time to 

listen to understand where people are coming from

0:39:21.600,0:39:28.680

and what it is that they want for themselves and 

really try to find a a way way to blend the values

0:39:28.680,0:39:34.280

and the things that they want together so I think 

that that's something that's extremely important

0:39:34.280,0:39:42.120

and what we found like at my bank especially and 

I think this has worked pretty well is um white

0:39:42.120,0:39:48.520

people assume that they're not diverse because 

a lot of times you know I'll go into a room and

0:39:48.520,0:39:55.480

they'll say I'm not diverse and I'm like uh 

everybody diversity means difference it's not

0:39:55.480,0:40:00.240

you know it's not I'm black so I'm not you know 

that's not what diversity is so so basically what

0:40:00.240,0:40:06.360

you're saying is they're they're thinking it from 

a color standpoint corre Bas got you color or age

0:40:06.360,0:40:11.560

or you know whatever you throw that dimension in 

there but but they're looking at it you know I am

0:40:11.560,0:40:17.800

not diverse and so what I always try to explain 

to people is that no person is the same and that

0:40:17.800,0:40:24.760

everybody has different perspectives and different 

ways of doing things and to your point earlier

0:40:24.760,0:40:30.320

that you talked about if you're willing to do that 

work then you can make more money for your company

0:40:30.320,0:40:37.800

and then more opportunities will follow and so 

what we've done at my at my bank is um in 2020

0:40:37.800,0:40:44.240

and I'm still doing it now is we've just created 

um places for conversation so I started right

0:40:44.240,0:40:51.240

in 2020 and we were very in my opinion pretty 

courageous because we did three panel discussions

0:40:51.240,0:40:56.400

um if we called them getting real about race 

so the first one we had black people sharing

0:40:56.400,0:41:03.480

their feelings after George Floyd then after some 

convincing um I had found four white people and

0:41:03.480,0:41:08.000

I said I want you to share what you have learned 

about race and what you were taught about race and

0:41:08.000,0:41:14.280

they shared their experiences and then we did a 

program for Baby Boomers and Millennials and what

0:41:14.280,0:41:19.240

they were taught about race and how that kind of 

influenced their perspective and then after that

0:41:19.240,0:41:24.720

I did a lot of self small group conversations to 

react to what they heard during those panels but

0:41:24.720,0:41:31.880

what we've managed to do at my company is kind 

of let people tell their own diversity or their

0:41:31.880,0:41:38.160

own inclusion story and so from that people are 

getting to know each other from very different

0:41:38.160,0:41:45.440

perspectives and so as a result so once I can 

connect with you emotionally then it's much easier

0:41:45.440,0:41:52.680

for me to have an understanding of where you're 

coming from and then that's why we can drive we're

0:41:52.680,0:41:57.840

we're having a lot of success at my company I 

would say is because we're we're facilitating

0:41:57.840,0:42:05.920

these conversations where people feel safe enough 

to share with each other I love it leslee I love

0:42:05.920,0:42:10.920

it I love it I love it and that's why we started 

this podcast because at the end of the day for

0:42:10.920,0:42:18.080

whatever reason we don't talk about race we avoid 

it like the plague and the reason we avoid it it

0:42:18.080,0:42:23.920

doesn't bring people together it further pushes 

them apart but if you can get people together and

0:42:23.920,0:42:31.240

put get them in a safe space and let them talk 

and let them ask questions without them being

0:42:31.240,0:42:37.600

judged or anything like that it's amazing that we 

start coming together and more importantly we see

0:42:37.600,0:42:44.320

the other person's perspective right no matter 

what color so that's awesome one of the things

0:42:44.320,0:42:49.520

you know and I know I'm just thinking of things 

that my audience will probably want to dive into

0:42:49.520,0:42:57.640

how did as as an individual and I I've you know 

I had a friend of mine tell me that um you know

0:42:57.640,0:43:03.560

his friend was going for a job and he had talked 

and you had talked earlier about networking okay

0:43:03.560,0:43:10.960

and typically people hire who they already know 

all right so he was going for J white guy right

0:43:10.960,0:43:16.440

uh guy said yep I like you give me a couple days 

I think I'm gon bring you in right and then when

0:43:16.440,0:43:22.760

he followed up with him uh the hiring manager 

said uh unfortunately man that job is filled

0:43:22.760,0:43:29.720

we had to give it to a diverse candidate right 

so then this yeah see how your head goes down

0:43:29.720,0:43:37.720

and then so now this guy walks away saying that 

was my job all right but they had to give it to

0:43:37.720,0:43:44.200

a diverse candidate which basically in his mind 

this person wasn't qualified they only hired

0:43:44.200,0:43:49.680

them because they're black or woman or whatever 

the case may be so so speak to that a little bit

0:43:49.680,0:43:55.880

because that's one of the things going back to 

your some of all fears type thing right or what

0:43:55.880,0:44:01.400

you think you have right so I would love to hear 

your thoughts on that because that's something

0:44:01.400,0:44:07.200

that we're seeing a lot and a lot of people I chat 

with and they're frustrated because the the person

0:44:07.200,0:44:13.320

comes into the company with two hands tied behind 

their back because now they're they're denoted

0:44:13.320,0:44:18.240

they're noted as a diverse not not the the the 

companies not saying but the people around them

0:44:18.240,0:44:24.720

saying you only here because you're a diverse uh 

hire yeah and I mean a lot of that just comes from

0:44:24.720,0:44:31.680

um education um you know everyone will always 

say well we couldn't we couldn't find anybody

0:44:31.680,0:44:41.040

and um and but I you know I I know thousands of 

people that have degrees and that are experienced

0:44:41.040,0:44:46.560

and that have um wonderful characteristics and 

I and I I could call one you know right now or

0:44:46.560,0:44:51.640

20 right now if you needed me to but the problem 

is we're not looking and and it's a a lot of it

0:44:51.640,0:44:58.400

is just the perpetuation to your point again of 

like just media and how um people always talk

0:44:58.400,0:45:05.720

about these things and so rather than saying so 

sometimes people are trying to make others like

0:45:05.720,0:45:11.560

them feel better and so they'll things like oh it 

went to the diverse candidate so instead of saying

0:45:11.560,0:45:20.200

oh we gave it to this woman who um is from MIT 

has you know this degree she she has this type of

0:45:20.200,0:45:26.000

background correct and she brings this and she's a 

perfect fit for the job right so instead of I mean

0:45:26.000,0:45:33.680

so we really have to change how we are talking 

about what is required for these jobs and so we're

0:45:33.680,0:45:39.480

you have to kind of shift that conversation into 

like what is the experience what is it the skills

0:45:39.480,0:45:45.600

that these people are possessing and not about the 

diversity and that that's the biggest challenge

0:45:45.600,0:45:51.160

but not there isn't enough education around hiring 

managers because you know if we all can put our

0:45:51.160,0:45:57.920

HR hats on and say okay you know HR I'm I know 

because I'm in nhr that this is how we we talk

0:45:57.920,0:46:05.960

about things but we're not educating those hiring 

managers that are making those hiring and that's

0:46:05.960,0:46:14.080

really where that kind of uh is is the hiccup 

there's no question and I always said you know

0:46:14.080,0:46:21.120

I I always came come back to this if you really 

want to diversify your organization you will

0:46:21.120,0:46:28.120

because if you don't any excuse will do right okay 

so that that's a atic you know one of the one of

0:46:28.120,0:46:35.200

the areas that I've heard uh you know my audience 

probably heard when they're trying you and that's

0:46:35.200,0:46:40.240

why I want to jump into it because you spoke to 

it well it's hard to find somebody we don't know

0:46:40.240,0:46:45.160

nobody and this is my opinion and and look I've 

been in Corporate America for over 35 years I've

0:46:45.160,0:46:51.200

seen a lot okay I've been a hiring manager at the 

end of the day to your point when you just want to

0:46:51.200,0:46:56.560

feel the job and you and you you say hey lesie I 

know Lesley let's get Lesley in here here but if

0:46:56.560,0:47:02.840

you don't have a network of individuals that's 

outside of the people that you know then you

0:47:02.840,0:47:08.240

say it's hard and then not only that I want this 

where I want to dive into this because when you

0:47:08.240,0:47:15.000

we're talking about senior leadership I'm talking 

you know SVP I'm talking seite right at the end

0:47:15.000,0:47:23.200

of the day it's always hard to find a person of 

color a black person to be you know C or CFO and

0:47:23.200,0:47:31.320

and I and I get a sense and that's why I want 

to hear your thoughts is the uh the process of

0:47:31.320,0:47:36.880

that of finding that individual in other words if 

somebody's white and we're just looking at their

0:47:36.880,0:47:41.560

background and we're like oh who do you know and 

we we vet them a little bit but if they're black

0:47:41.560,0:47:48.600

they have to be unique they have to be like an 

astronaut they have to be the one one of one%

0:47:48.600,0:47:55.880

to get the job versus everybody else didn't have 

to be vetted that way they're regular individuals

0:47:55.880,0:48:00.160

right and they're just and they got the and look 

they probably got it because they deserve it I'm

0:48:00.160,0:48:06.040

not knocking it but when it comes to vetting 

highlevel black individuals it's a it's a it's

0:48:06.040,0:48:13.920

a different vetting game let me hear your thoughts 

on that yeah I mean I mean you spoke to it um it's

0:48:13.920,0:48:22.040

it's who you know and um the the challenge is 

you have to work with those leaders to help them

0:48:22.040,0:48:28.080

expand their networks and so there are several 

things that you can do to get people to expand

0:48:28.080,0:48:34.160

their networks if people are willing to do that 

and that is part of the challenge you have to

0:48:34.160,0:48:41.560

get people willing to do that and that comes from 

again conversation engagement and empathy but one

0:48:41.560,0:48:50.560

of the things like we do at our bank is so we have 

ergs but and I I had a I'm we're starting a pride

0:48:50.560,0:48:58.080

ERG at the moment so okay um and My Philosophy 

is every ERG has an executive sponsor and I work

0:48:58.080,0:49:02.920

with those executive sponsors and I say okay 

this is what your role is and I give them their

0:49:02.920,0:49:07.840

education I say here are some articles here are 

some podcasts here are some things if you are

0:49:07.840,0:49:13.600

going to be working with this ERG I need really 

need you to understand this community but we want

0:49:13.600,0:49:22.760

I have a rule that if you identify with that ERG 

for my executive sponsors so I can't have my black

0:49:22.760,0:49:30.520

um Executives representing our African-American 

ERG are I have to have someone who's white um so

0:49:30.520,0:49:36.800

they can understand what some of those challenges 

are and what people are saying on the ground to

0:49:36.800,0:49:43.600

help grow their networks and so you have to put 

people into situations where if they're not going

0:49:43.600,0:49:49.760

to do it on their own you have to create those 

opportunities for for you to do it for them and

0:49:49.760,0:49:57.600

so it's important to make sure that um those 

SE Suite those SVP leaders have some kind of

0:49:57.600,0:50:04.560

access to different employees across all different 

backgrounds so they can really start to understand

0:50:04.560,0:50:10.920

that everyone is at the company because we hired 

them into the company because they brought some

0:50:10.920,0:50:18.960

value to the company and so we have to give them 

the opportunity to share how they are contributing

0:50:18.960,0:50:25.160

and how they're adding value and do it in a 

way that's not being judged by something that

0:50:25.160,0:50:30.920

they said or something that they did but really 

um giving our senior leaders that exposure to

0:50:30.920,0:50:36.720

this is how these communities communicate this is 

how they work this is how things happen in those

0:50:36.720,0:50:43.040

communities that's awesome are you guys do you 

get any push back from within the organization

0:50:43.040,0:50:49.680

it seems like you guys you got a lot of good stuff 

going on so I'm you know i' never seen nobody 100%

0:50:49.680,0:50:54.200

of anybody of anything be so what do you what 

do you how do you deal with the push back that

0:50:54.200,0:51:00.760

happens in the organization you know I mean really 

what we're trying to do so thankfully I work for

0:51:00.760,0:51:06.920

an organization that's based in community um 

and so our mission is really to help communities

0:51:06.920,0:51:11.560

Thrive and so we give Capital to Community Banks 

Credit Unions those types of things so they can

0:51:11.560,0:51:17.720

make home loans and they can make small business 

loans in their communities and so really um what

0:51:17.720,0:51:24.560

we do whenever I get some pushback it's really 

about you know do you understand what community

0:51:24.560,0:51:31.440

means and what it means in these particular areas 

and so like I don't know last year I got a letter

0:51:31.440,0:51:39.480

a very long email from someone that was um very 

interested in why we decided to call out juneth

0:51:39.480,0:51:46.800

um and celebrate it as a part of the company's 

kind of celebratory things but we didn't do

0:51:46.800,0:51:52.600

Fourth of July and you know and the the person 

was very you know upset because we didn't call

0:51:52.600,0:51:59.000

out Fourth of July and I said we've been calling 

out Fourth of July for you know years but um and

0:51:59.000,0:52:04.840

we've talked about but we this is the first time 

that juneth is a holiday in our country and a lot

0:52:04.840,0:52:11.600

of people don't understand what that means and so 

my job is to educate you about different things

0:52:11.600,0:52:17.240

that impact different individuals that aren't 

like you and so that's kind of how I keep all

0:52:17.240,0:52:24.280

of that going so wow I mean listen you know 

unfortunately you're not gonna get everybody

0:52:24.280,0:52:29.160

but I love the way you yeah it's just not going to 

happen but still you guys are 100% committed you

0:52:29.160,0:52:38.000

know earlier we talked about intersectionality 

right and so you know you have you know we all

0:52:38.000,0:52:44.360

are not just singular individuals right you have 

African-Americans that's gay you have you know

0:52:44.360,0:52:53.280

LBG you have a whole Litany of different people 

but also who intersect into different things so

0:52:53.280,0:53:01.680

tell me a little bit in terms of how de the the 

influence for how it's needed for Dei I mean the

0:53:01.680,0:53:07.560

importance I should say I mean intersectionality 

um I mean you just said it best we we are not just

0:53:07.560,0:53:14.920

one thing you know I am a woman and I experience 

things as a woman I am biracial I experiencing

0:53:14.920,0:53:24.800

things being um I'm genx and so my view of the 

world keep going down the roll and but but see

0:53:24.800,0:53:29.120

and what's really interesting for me you know 

especially me being biracial you know I get a

0:53:29.120,0:53:32.720

lot of people are like well what's it like to be 

mixed I'm like I don't know you know what's it

0:53:32.720,0:53:40.000

like to be BL you know I don't know and so and I 

can't answer you know because even my experience

0:53:40.000,0:53:47.640

as a biracial person um is very different from my 

brother's experience as a biracial person you know

0:53:47.640,0:53:52.200

my brother looks different from me my brother 

is a man and so how I can navigate through the

0:53:52.200,0:53:58.720

world is very different how he has to navigate 

through the world and when you think about that

0:53:58.720,0:54:05.400

intersectionality um there are lots of multiple 

lenses that people View and experience the world

0:54:05.400,0:54:11.480

and so you can't lump people into just one 

bucket and so that's really what diversity

0:54:11.480,0:54:17.440

equity and that key word is inclusion inclusion 

really talking about it's like making people

0:54:17.440,0:54:22.680

understand things from a variety of experiences 

and perspectives not just putting people into a

0:54:22.680,0:54:28.480

bucket and that's what's really important that is 

awesome and I love that answer because it is so

0:54:28.480,0:54:33.920

important and at the end of the day if we can all 

come together and more importantly stop worrying

0:54:33.920,0:54:40.440

about you know what about me right and really 

you know say hey let's what can we do together

0:54:40.440,0:54:48.080

you know our our our our our companies our country 

would be going in a lot of different uh PL better

0:54:48.080,0:54:54.520

places absolutely you know a couple of weeks about 

a month or two ago the Supreme Court came down and

0:54:54.520,0:55:02.880

said that you can't use race for admissions 

um to for for college admissions do you think

0:55:02.880,0:55:08.520

that's gonna have any effect in terms of corporate 

America from a Dei standpoint I mean I think it

0:55:08.520,0:55:14.200

already has you know I mean you had the GOP you 

know they had the was it the State's Attorneys

0:55:14.200,0:55:21.640

or attorney generals sending letters um putting 

people on notice and exactly had um you had the

0:55:21.640,0:55:27.080

Democrats um putting other people on notice you 

know that you can't yes and so I think that you

0:55:27.080,0:55:35.920

know again it's really about you know who you are 

as a company and as an organization and what it is

0:55:35.920,0:55:43.400

that your company truly values and so I think 

that you know if you do um things like based

0:55:43.400,0:55:51.280

on race that makes people nervous because they're 

looking at okay am I gonna be sued and so what you

0:55:51.280,0:55:58.720

have to think about is what are what am I doing 

for all of my employees and what experiences am

0:55:58.720,0:56:04.360

I giving to all of my employees and what do they 

need and what conversations do they have to have

0:56:04.360,0:56:12.560

because not everybody walks into a space at the 

same level with the same Viewpoint and so maybe

0:56:12.560,0:56:20.280

providing employees with things that they hadn't 

considered prior is the way to do that without

0:56:20.280,0:56:25.480

necessarily calling out race specifically but you 

can call out different experiences you can call

0:56:25.480,0:56:33.680

out different ideas and perspectives based on um 

what is happening in the world so so Bas based on

0:56:33.680,0:56:40.280

that and I hear you how do so if I'm hearing that 

and you know things like they don't want to be

0:56:40.280,0:56:45.800

sued so when a company says that hey I want and go 

back to what you said earlier about hey 50% of our

0:56:45.800,0:56:53.880

vendors are going to be you know diverse right 

so how do you now um are are able to increase

0:56:53.880,0:56:59.760

your diversity but not you know say race or come 

up with percentages in terms of what you want to

0:56:59.760,0:57:06.240

do from a from a A diversity standpoint I mean 

I I think you you want to always keep in mind

0:57:06.240,0:57:12.120

your numbers and you you want to always kind of 

look at like what's happening and but I do think

0:57:12.120,0:57:18.000

you know even when we were very targeted around 

finding our vendors um those diverse vendors to

0:57:18.000,0:57:24.920

work on that project we didn't hire those diverse 

vendors because they were black they were diverse

0:57:24.920,0:57:32.600

we hired those vendors because we intentionally we 

looked for people that could give us the services

0:57:32.600,0:57:40.560

and products that we needed and they had the best 

service that was available and so we went out to

0:57:40.560,0:57:46.200

find and so we didn't say okay well we're not 

going to take any bids from any white company

0:57:46.200,0:57:51.520

we we didn't do that you know we took bids from 

everybody but then we made decisions based on our

0:57:51.520,0:57:56.080

price points what they're what they were offering 

and that's how those DEC decisions were made but

0:57:56.080,0:58:03.080

it was because we were being very thoughtful in 

making sure that we had a wide array of people

0:58:03.080,0:58:10.000

that were responding and we went outside of our 

networks um to find different vendors that could

0:58:10.000,0:58:15.280

compete for those bids and for those projects 

that's how we were able to do it so we weren't

0:58:15.280,0:58:20.320

doing it just to say Hey you know we got to put 

some black people in to build our chairs or you

0:58:20.320,0:58:24.840

know whatever we we didn't do it that way we 

did it um we went through our normal process

0:58:24.840,0:58:30.520

process but then we expanded our Network to make 

sure that we were finding the best vendors that

0:58:30.520,0:58:37.840

could meet our needs awesome awesome you know I 

got two final questions for you it seems like you

0:58:37.840,0:58:45.400

know your bank you know number one they hired the 

the right person right you you have the passion

0:58:45.400,0:58:52.400

and you you're 100% behind it you're making sure 

you're trying to include everyone outside of you

0:58:52.400,0:58:58.040

know your organization what other organization 

you have seen that's doing a really good job

0:58:58.040,0:59:07.960

from a diversity Equity inclusion standpoint so 

I would say I mean and I am biased um the YMCA

0:59:07.960,0:59:15.680

um okay they do some great set that up before you 

left I mean they do but see one of the things that

0:59:15.680,0:59:22.200

the Y does is they they take their communities 

through like um there's a there's a inventory

0:59:22.200,0:59:26.840

it's called the Intercultural development in 

inventory that kind of just kind of bases your

0:59:26.840,0:59:31.240

cultural awareness so they take their leaders 

through that they have a lot of conversations

0:59:31.240,0:59:37.640

around race so they're very bold um I would 

also say you know I always speak to um Nike

0:59:37.640,0:59:44.400

I mean honestly I mean I think that just with 

how they stood behind Colin Kaepernick during

0:59:44.400,0:59:49.600

that whole I I don't I'm not a I don't follow 

football yeah yeah yeah no no no I know when he

0:59:49.600,0:59:55.440

took the knee and stuff like that yeah but they 

you know they said this is Who We Are are and

0:59:55.440,1:00:02.080

this is what we are about and they did not waver 

from that and so I think that you know you have

1:00:02.080,1:00:11.120

to take a stand on who you are and so and for me 

Nike kind of represents they have always been not

1:00:11.120,1:00:16.000

always but you know I mean in the last you know 20 

years they have been very inclusive they've been

1:00:16.000,1:00:22.280

very thoughtful about how they could you know 

work with different um abilities um I love they

1:00:22.280,1:00:29.520

have new shoe designs for people that you know 

have you know uh Developmental and uh they're

1:00:29.520,1:00:35.440

physically um challenged and those of things and 

so I mean but they're always being they're at the

1:00:35.440,1:00:41.920

Forefront of how they can be more inclusive 

I would also say that hayatt um International

1:00:41.920,1:00:48.080

they do an exceptional job um Tyron stud Meer he 

does some fantastic work with hayatt in terms of

1:00:48.080,1:00:52.120

thinking about their employees and thinking 

about how they can grow that Pipeline and

1:00:52.120,1:00:57.920

they're very intentional about who's coming into 

into the company and how they're being successful

1:00:57.920,1:01:02.760

so those are two I would watch for sure that's 

awesome thank you for that feedback and then the

1:01:02.760,1:01:07.320

final thought is what do you want to leave to our 

listeners today what's your final thought for our

1:01:07.320,1:01:13.920

listeners I mean my final thought is inclusion 

matters it it's it's just it's important and I

1:01:13.920,1:01:20.800

will say that you know our country at the moment 

is very divisive um it's very polarized but you

1:01:20.800,1:01:27.760

know knowing who you are and knowing what it's 

about and how you want to serve all people and

1:01:27.760,1:01:34.840

all customers is really important and you can only 

do that by bringing a variety of people together

1:01:34.840,1:01:41.640

and being intentional about being inclusive I love 

it be intentional about being inclusive I love it

1:01:41.640,1:01:49.680

I love it how can a black executive perspective 

podcast help you lesli you know um I appreciate

1:01:49.680,1:01:56.400

this conversation and what is what I am definitely 

going to do is share this with my Executives and

1:01:56.400,1:02:02.240

I'm going to share it with um a lot of people that 

are asking questions about how we can do this work

1:02:02.240,1:02:09.320

better and so um I do think that bringing in very 

relevant topics and bringing in speakers and one

1:02:09.320,1:02:14.080

of the things I would love to hear more about 

is the polarization that's happening and so if

1:02:14.080,1:02:19.200

you have someone coming up to talk about that 

especially with these elections that are coming

1:02:19.200,1:02:26.320

that would that would be a fantastic thing for 

me to learn from well guess what we do and I'm

1:02:26.320,1:02:29.920

going to circle back with you after and I'll let 

you know as soon as we book the time because we

1:02:29.920,1:02:33.960

already chatted with a couple individuals we just 

got to scheduled it so we'll definitely let you

1:02:33.960,1:02:40.960

on know on that you know I want to thank you for 

your passion your intellect you know you you you

1:02:40.960,1:02:48.160

you bring a level of not just expertise but I'll 

use your word very intentional um and at the end

1:02:48.160,1:02:54.360

of the day to make things you know there's an 

old saying nothing grows in a comfort zone and

1:02:54.360,1:03:02.000

you know most people and we're all human beings 

we want to be comfortable however you grow when

1:03:02.000,1:03:07.520

you're uncomfortable correct right and that's 

where we need to get a lot of these organizations

1:03:07.520,1:03:13.880

to it's okay to be uncomfortable and not try to 

play for the short putt but be uncomfortable so

1:03:13.880,1:03:20.880

then you can win you know the the 18 hole game 

versus the first two holes so you helped us with

1:03:20.880,1:03:26.720

that today you gave us a lot to think uh things 

to think about so my tidbit for the day is this

1:03:26.720,1:03:34.840

and is by Allan Joyce we have a very diverse 

environment and a very inclusive culture and

1:03:34.840,1:03:41.880

those characteristics got us through the tough 

times diversity generates better strategy better

1:03:41.880,1:03:50.400

risk management better debates debates and better 

outcomes and that's by Allan enjoice so hopefully

1:03:50.400,1:03:57.160

you enjoy today's uh session is DUI working love 

as I said love to to hear your feedback give us

1:03:57.160,1:04:05.600

feedback and for my guest Leslie I'm Tony tidbit 

we're out thank you for tuning in to this episode

1:04:05.600,1:04:12.840

of Tony tidbit a black executive perspective 

and for joining in today's conversation with

1:04:12.840,1:04:20.000

every story We Share every conversation we Foster 

and every barrier we address we can ignite the

1:04:20.000,1:04:26.520

Sparks that bring about lasting change and this 

carries us one step closer to transforming the

1:04:26.520,1:04:32.240

face of corporate America if today's episode 

resonated with you consider subscribing and

1:04:32.240,1:04:39.800

leaving us a rating or review on Apple podcast 

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1:04:39.800,1:04:45.040

this episode with your circle and with your 

support we can reach more people and tell more

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stories