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I'm not gonna change, I'm not gonna fold just based on the result of the game and I think that's how you get some of that fruit, the fruit being wins.

I think you just have to be prepared and you have to stay consistent in your preparation and I think that's the most important thing that I can do as a coach is stay consistent in my approach.

Brad Cooper just completed his first season as the men's basketball head coach at Hartwick College in Oneonta, New York.

He spent the previous season as an assistant at Hamilton College.

Prior to joining the staff at Hamilton, Cooper was the head coach at Keystone College in LaPlume, Pennsylvania from 2013 to 2023 and an assistant coach at Keystone for the two seasons before that.

Cooper has also been the 17U boys coach for Scranton based NEPA Elite AAU since 2022 and was an assistant coach at his alma mater Suny Fredonia during the 2010-2011 season.

He graduated from Fredonia as one of the top 15 all time leading scorers at the school with 1,077 career points and was a two time member of the State University of New York Athletic Conference Men's Basketball All Conference Team Foreign this March only you can buy one Dr.

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You'll want to take some notes as you listen to this episode with Brad Cooper, men's basketball head coach at Hartwick College.

Hello and welcome to the Hoopets Podcast.

It's Mike Cleansing here without my co host, Jason Suckel tonight, but I am pleased to be joined by the men's head basketball coach at Hartwick College, Brad Cooper.

Brad, welcome to the Hoopets pod.

Oh, thank you for having me.

Excited to have you on.

Looking forward to diving into all the things that you've been able to do in your career to this point.

Let's start by going back in time to when you were a kid.

Tell me about your first experience with the game, what you remember, what made you fall in love with it.

Brad?

Oh, I appreciate the question.

So that's actually one of, one of the questions I ask every one of my recruits when I first talk to them is just kind of, who put the ball in your hands?

And for me it was my older brother, you know, so he's six years older than me and he was a.

He was a point guard at Monticello High School.

And I just grew up watching, watching him and his friends play.

Every day after school.

They'd go in the backyard, they go to the parks in town, and I was just kind of tagging along and you know, I was that player that was just, you know, just dying to be able to get in there.

But, you know, they were significantly older than me, so I had to kind of wait my turn.

And you know, I would say that really just sparked my desire to be able to just, to just be able to play, you know, so just like a lot of young boys and young girls, just spending a lot of time just working on my craft by myself, shooting around in the backyard and just waiting for my chance to be able to join my older sibling.

At what point were you finally able to get there?

I would say, um, the first time my mom let me go into town and joined my older brother and his friends.

I was probably about 11 years old, so he was probably about 17.

And you know, I felt, you know, I felt very accomplished that I was able to go with him in the town and to watch the games and, you know, just once in a while, maybe when guys got tired, I could be a shooter in a corner.

And so I would say I was probably about 11 years old.

You gotta be the first one there and the last to leave so you can get in that first game.

When they're waiting around for that 10th guy, you can be the 10th guy.

And then get fill in for the tired guys at the end.

I remember those days very, very well as a young kid going up to the park.

Probably a lot different than the guys that you're recruiting now who have probably never played against guys of a different age group because they grow up in the old AAU circuit as opposed to out on the playground.

The way that you grew up or the way that I grew up, certainly it's much different today, for sure.

Absolutely.

No doubt.

And I mean, I remember those days after school where it'd be packed, you know, there might be 20 people out there, there's 10 people that have next.

And it was just such an environment.

And you know, me and some of the people I grew up with, we, from time to time we just talk about that experience of playing outside and, you know, there's no refs and if you don't play defense, you're not going to get picked up.

And you know, if you don't share the ball, you're not going to get picked up.

So, you know, it really helped develop some, some good habits and I, I would say some toughness early on.

I always say that I had an opportunity to play college basketball and obviously played high school basketball.

And yet when I think about some of my best experiences with the game, I really do think that some of those playground games and some of the pickup basketball that I played in so many different places, when there's so many different types of players and people from all different areas and all different ages, as some of those experiences, I think, are some of my most fond memories of basketball, despite the fact that I had a good college career and still had those opportunities to play there.

But when I think about what basketball means to me, I think that pickup basketball, honestly, I have as many good memories from that as I do from.

From playing organized basketball, if that makes any sense at all.

Yeah, absolutely.

Tell me a little bit about how you went about trying to improve your game.

So you talked about working in the backyard.

Obviously you're going to the park and playing pickup basketball.

But as you get into junior high and high school, what do you remember about just how you went about trying to improve yourself?

Really, a lot of it came from the fear of the head coach at Monticello High School.

So he's a legend.

His name is Dick O'Neill.

He actually had three.

Three national championships as a player at Kentucky.

Wesleyan.

I believe one of those years he was an All American, and he's in a New York State Basketball hall of Fame for coaching and you know, from the time I was growing up, it was always like, Coach O'Neill, and his.

His opinion was always the standard.

So, you know, you'd always hear like, oh, if you can't go left, you're not going to be able to play with Coach.

Or, you know, if you're.

If you can't defend, you're not going to be able to get on the court, you know, so the fear of just being able to live up to coach, Coach O'Neal's standards was always in the back of my mind.

And I would say that was one of the things that really just driven me, you know, as a middle schooler.

And, you know, I just wanted to be good enough as a ninth grader to be able to be on Coach's varsity team.

And to this day, him and I are really good friends.

In fact, got my first tattoo, so I'm pretty heavily tattooed, and I got my first tattoo based off of something he told me since I was probably 11 years old.

And it was, if it were easy, everyone would do it.

And, you know, that was one of the things that really stuck with me from the time I was about 11 years old until now.

You know, if it's worthwhile, it's probably going to be pretty challenging to acquire.

So beyond the tattoo, when you think about him as a coach and you think about yourself today as a coach, what's something that you took from him that, whether it was through observation, whether it was through the way that he coached you that you feel like is a part of you as a coach today?

What are you carrying with you from him that's still a part of your coaching style or your coaching methods today?

I would say using basketball as a tool.

He always told me to use basketball as a tool, and, you know, use that as a tool to get a good education, use as a tool to build relationships and, you know, to learn life lessons through basketball, you know, through the value of working with a team, through being selfless.

And I would say, you know, he told me that from.

Again, from, you know, the time I'm, like, 11 or 12 years old.

So using basketball as a tool is something that always stuck with me.

And really, I've been really fortunate in my life, you know, probably like you and a lot of your guests, where, you know, I've just made a living out of basketball, and it's really such a blessing, you know, the relationships that you've made along the way.

And, you know, oftentimes we may not remember our game or practice, but we remember how, you know, people made us feel, and we remember those lifelong relationships.

And, you know, so again, I think just using basketball as a tool is probably the most valuable thing that coach taught me, and that still sticks with me today.

And our relationship is great.

You know, I look forward to, you know, recruiting with him every year and, you know, hearing him complain about post entries and, you know, guards can't get the ball into the post and turnovers and, you know, so, you know, it's.

It's been a lifelong friendship.

That's good.

That's.

That's a funny.

The reason why I'm laughing so hard at that is because as a player, so I'm a Predator player.

And of course, us perimeter players, we don't necessarily love it when our coaching staff tells us, hey, you got to get the ball inside to the bigs.

I'd like to think I was decent at it, but it wasn't necessarily my favorite activity as a perimeter player.

And then I have a son who's six six who played in the post and trying to see if he could ever get the ball, like, ever, and finding a guard that could pass it to him.

And he and I had so many conversations of like, hey, man, you got to get open, and if you don't catch the ball, that guard's not going to throw it in there because he doesn't want to get called for a turnover.

He doesn't want to get blamed for the turnover.

You don't catch the ball, or when the guy reaches around from behind you and pokes it away.

And so I got a kick out of that.

Out of that, because it's a conversation that rings true for me on both ends because I remember it as a player.

Coaches tell me, get it inside of this guy.

And me being like, why don't.

I don't want to give it to that big guy in there.

And then, conversely, when I'm watching my son play, I'm like, how come those guys don't kick it inside to him?

And so I can.

I can completely relate to both sides of that, of that particular statement, without question.

Brad.

It's funny, for sure.

So when you think about the memories that you have as a high school player and you talked about, again, some of the things that stood out for you when you think about the relationship that you had with your coaching staff.

But what's a.

What's a favorite memory from being a high school player that sticks out for you?

Favorite memory?

You know, there.

You know, the.

We kind of had a.

We had a rough Run in terms of just size.

We didn't have a whole, whole lot of size when, by the time I was a senior.

So, you know, we had.

We had one young man who was maybe about 2 inches taller than me.

You know, he might have been about six, three or so.

And, you know, I was a point guard at six foot, and, you know, so we were a little undersized, and so we weren't really able to make, you know, one of those deep New York State sectional runs.

And, you know, so for us, we won the district, and we beat a very good Cornwall team, and we were able to put a banner up in the gym, and, you know, that was extremely satisfying.

And then also, you know, just from an individual standpoint, you know, I had a game where I broke the school scoring record, and I had 43 in the game.

And, you know, I was fortunate enough to play with some guys who really cared about me, and, you know, they.

They would really look out for me as a player and, you know, look to feed the hot hand and just selfless guys.

And a couple of them were my best friends.

And, you know, against a game, a home game against Goshen just got hot.

And, you know, it was just a lot of fun.

And, you know, we all have those games where, you know, it just seems like the rim is twice the size that day.

And, you know, I was able to have 43 that game, and it was just a fun experience and had the town buzzing.

And from time to time, when I go back, you still have some people talking about it, and, you know, so that was definitely an experience, a moment that really stuck out for your high 43.

Yeah.

43, yep.

Me and.

Me and you.

High school.

Same.

I had.

My high game was 43.

It's funny, is just this year.

So this is probably like maybe like six weeks ago.

The assistant athletic director at my high school, who I have a relationship with, he wasn't there when I was there, but just he and I have a relationship through.

He used to work for the recreation department here.

And he sends me a text with a photo of the scorebook from the game when I scored 43, the old fashioned green, you know, whatever this.

And he sends it to me.

He's like.

He's like, man, it looks like you were pretty hot in this game.

And I'm like, where did you find this thing?

I mean, that's like, where did you.

Go to high school?

It's like Strongsville in Cleveland.

Suburb of Cleveland.

So, like, 35.

This thing's like 35 years ago, maybe 40.

And you know, I'm like, how did you find.

You find this thing?

Let alone.

And he's taking me taking a picture of.

He's like, well, we found some, we're trying to digitize them all and, and so then we can.

Then we get rid of them.

And he's like, you want me to send you this?

I'm like, yeah, sure, somebody, you know, I'll throw it, I'll throw it in the, in the, in the scrap heap back here.

Yeah, so.

So it's.

It was kind of funny to see because obviously you remember your own, you know, 43.

And then I'm like, oh, look like Johnny had 12 in that game.

And you know, whatever.

You just kind of look at it, you know, just brought back some.

Brought back some good memories when you think about that.

Tell me a little bit about your college decision.

Was college basketball something that was always on your radar?

Was it something that you knew that you.

You wanted to try to achieve if you could get there or just tell me a little bit about that process.

Yeah, so, you know, for me I was, you know, for college I kind of had a chip on my shoulder just because in my, from my own perspective, I kind of felt like I was under recruited.

And you know, I only played one year of aau.

I played with a pretty good team, BC Eagles.

And you know, they were extremely talented and I might have actually been a six man on that team.

And you know, I averaged over 20, um, you know, as a senior with probably about five assists, five rebounds and you know, so I was a pretty good player at Monticello.

And you know, I just wasn't really heavily recruited.

It was some D3s and some D2s showed some interest and you know, I just.

That really helped me.

You know, I thought.

And you know, when it became time to visit some schools, I visited Fredonia and the coach there, Kevin Moore knew my coach, Dick O'Neil, from.

Worked in this legendary big man camp, ironically, right here in the city of Oneonta, where I am right now.

And he knew Kevin Moore from the old camp days and told coach about me.

So I came up on a visit and coach never even saw me play.

You know, at this point the season was over and you know, and I.

Coach had some, you know, he had faith in me as a player and you know, so I went up there for a visit.

I loved it, loved the guys and I built a bond with coach and you know, I decided on Fredonia.

And you know, from that moment on, I Just really had a chip on my shoulder and I think it really helped me throughout my career.

You know, I had pretty good freshman season and then I think sophomore year I think I might average like 15 or 16 in a very competitive Sunyak conference.

And you know, at that point I could be wrong, but I think it's about 19 or 20 years.

When I first got to Fredonia, they hadn't won a playoff game and we had a really good class.

You know, one of my best friends, Kevin Saunders came in.

James Cain.

We had a very talented class and by the time we were juniors, we were in the conference championship, ironically against Joe Clark and Crew, who's the current head Coach within Empire 8 Conference.

And you know, so it's.

Yeah, it was pretty ironic, but yeah, we flipped the program around.

We had a strong class and you know, I think we all kind of shared that feeling of just kind of being under recruited and you know, it was definitely a benefit for me.

How did that fuel you during your college career in terms of the work ethic and what you did during the off season to prepare yourself and, and make sure that as you went into each season you were going to be at your best?

What did that look like for you when you described that chip on your shoulder?

Yeah, I mean, I think it really just fueled me, you know, throughout the summer it just fueled me, the feeling of coaches thinking that, you know, I wasn't good enough to play at a higher level and, you know, just committing myself to getting stronger, more explosive, you know, just competing every day in the summertime and, you know, we're actually working camps and just, you know, expanding my basketball knowledge and just being around the game and you know, so just that feeling of just not really being good enough and you know, that really, really just drove me and you know, that chip on my shoulder, you know, sometimes if I wasn't angry as a player, I didn't really, they really quite know how to handle myself, you know, I might have to create something.

Yeah, you had a little Michael Jordan and John McEnroe in you there, right?

You got to play, play your best when you're angry.

I understand.

I get it, man.

I understand.

Yeah.

So when you get to school, is coaching something that's already on your radar or are you thinking about it at all when you get to school?

What, what's the thought process in terms of, hey, what do I want to do?

What do I want to major in?

What's my career plans?

Or are you like a typical 18 year old kid?

You Kind of have no idea where you want to go.

Well, like a lot of, like a lot of college kids, you know, I thought that, you know, basketball as a player was going to be my path, you know, so, you know, that having that chip on my shoulder and just feeling like, yeah, I can do it, having a feeling that, yes, I can play overseas, you know, that was something that was always on my mind.

So, you know, we.

There was a, There was a player, Taha Alassari, he was a senior when I was a freshman.

Really good players, a thousand point scorer.

I really looked up to him as a freshman and his brother was my roommate and we were really close and, you know, he really just guided me when I first got to school and, you know, I knew that he played pro when he graduated.

The one thing I didn't know is that some folks have dual citizenship and, you know, for a lot of leagues, you know, they're allowed two Americans.

And, you know, if you don't have dual citizenship, it could be more of an uphill climb.

So, you know, I really had the feeling that, you know, like Taha and like some other people, I knew I was going to without a doubt go play pro when I was done.

And, you know, we.

After, you know, tearing my Achilles, so I actually tore my Achilles in a game against Brockport and it ended my career.

And it was, from my understanding it was one game after I could have got a medical red shirt.

So up until that point, I'm thinking, I'm going to play pro.

And man, here, here I am with a torn, torn Achilles and, you know, completely had to change roots and, you know, so I just had to adapt and, you know, I was very, very down.

You know, like a lot of people when they lose their identity, when, you know their identity is attached to being a basketball player or to being an athlete in general, I was just really down and had a lot of.

Had a few unfortunate things going on at that time.

And coach Coach Moore kind of brought me in and wanted me to be a student assistant.

My fifth year at Fredonia had weird story.

So the assistant coach, Lester Harbin, he's actually an associate head coach right now at Niagara.

Great guy.

He.

He blew out his knee pre practice.

So just playing around with the guys, he blew out his knee and it could be hard getting around for a big fella out there in western New York, you know, with, with a blown knee and he needed surgery and, you know, so I go from being a student assistant to coach, really needing me, you know, needing me on a daily basis to help with the scouts and, you know, to take a larger role.

You know, just because Coach Harbin wasn't able to necessarily travel to every game or be, you know, be as active as he could be.

So, you know, that, that made me, you know, take a closer look at coaching.

And then after I graduated, I applied to Utica and I.

Fortunately, I didn't get it.

And then I applied as a graduate assistant at Elmira College for a great guy, Randy Torgalski.

I worked his camps in the summertime, but other than working his camps, you know, he didn't really know me a whole lot.

My family moved up to Elmira when I was in college and I tell everybody this story.

You know, I thank Coach Torgalski quite often.

Right now he's a softball coach at Elmira.

And, you know, after not getting the job, I was a runner up to a really good coach, Brian Matthews, who played there.

He was a captain, 100% deserved it over me.

It was like a two week, two weeks later, I'm thinking I'm at my parents house, unsure of what I'm gonna do.

I'm thinking about going into the military like my dad.

I'm stressing over like the swim test for the Marines, trying to figure out how I'm gonna pass this swim test.

And out of nowhere, Coach Torgalski calls me and he says, hey, my buddy Nevada Smith just got the job at Keystone and I just spent 20 minutes talking you up.

If you call him right now, you're probably going to get the job.

And I called Nevada and the rest is history.

I probably wouldn't be coaching if it wasn't for that phone call.

So when you kind of get that opportunity as the student assistant, right, and it sounds like up until that point you were on the track of.

I always say there's two tracks that I found in all the interviews that I've done.

Everybody's coaching story usually comes back to one or two, one of these two options.

One is you're a player, you're playing, you think you're going to have a long playing career, maybe you think you're going to go and play professionally when you're done.

And then all of a sudden, whether it's injury, whether it's just the fact that you don't get that opportunity, whether it's the fact that your college eligibility is over, your high school career is over, and nobody recruits you at the college level, and all of a sudden you're like, well, where's the game of basketball?

It's gone.

And now, well, I better get into coaching.

I better figure out some way to keep myself involved in the game of basketball.

So that's one path, and then the other path is the path where it's somebody who's been thinking about coaching since they were in, like, second or third grade.

And even though they're playing, they've always fancied themselves a coach and they're.

They're drawing plays on napkins when they're sitting at the kitchen table with their mom and whatever.

And so for you, it sounds like you were focused primarily on being a player and coaching wasn't really on your radar.

So when you have to shift gears, what was your thought process?

Or what were you.

How were you thinking about coaching?

Were you like, oh, man, this I can really see.

This is where I want to go, or were you still like, man, I still wish I could be playing.

And this coaching thing, I kind of got to build my way into it slowly.

Yeah.

So I think it really came about really, just the same way it started, you know, just the joy of the game, the joy, you know, and how rewarding it could be when you lift others, you know, so just being there as a student coach and, you know, being able to help one of the younger players and, you know, seeing them have some success and then just being really happy about it and, you know, maybe just coming over, celebrating a big win and, you know, thanking me for helping them one way or another, you know, that satisfaction of really just lifting others, I would say, really sparked my interest.

Like, man, this is fun in a different way.

You know, it's fun being out there, but it's also really rewarding, you know, helping others and lifting others and celebrating their success.

And so I would say, you know, that that fifth year, that's what really sparked my interest in coaching.

Just realizing that this could be really fun, just in a different way.

First year at Keystone, what was an area where you feel like you made the biggest leap in terms of your knowledge?

Everybody always answers the question saying, I kind of knew nothing and I had to grow in every area, which I'm sure is the case.

But when you think about that first season, what was an area that you really found yourself diving into or pouring yourself into even more than maybe you would have thought to be able to boost your knowledge base as you started to think that, hey, this.

This is the path that I want to go with my career.

Yeah.

So I.

I think, really, Nevada, Smith, really, I can't thank him enough, and he's probably tired Of.

Of hearing it from me.

You know, he's one of my really close friends, and, you know, so I.

I would say Nevada just really guiding me as a young coach and putting me in a position to feel empowered and to really throw myself into the game early on and just be around him and just talk basketball.

You know, thinking back, you know, when he hired me, he.

He lived in an apartment in Clark Summit, right over by Abington Heights High School.

And it was.

It was probably a.

It was a large house with probably six different apartments in it.

He was good friends with the women's coach, Katie Tesla, who's at University of Cal on the women's side.

Really good coach.

And they would just talk basketball all the time.

And he set me up in an apartment, a single apartment in that same house.

So I was just around him all the time.

You know, we were just able to constantly just get dinner, three of us, and talk basketball.

You know, we worked together.

And then he helped me get a job with a guy named John Bucci my second year.

John Bucci was Jerry McLemara's high school coach, and he ran a.

He ran a company called Backward Hoops in Scranton, and, you know, just had a very good business.

And, you know, I ended up being his director of basketball operations through a connection with Nevada, and I was able to stay on board with Nevada the second year.

You know, so then me and Nevada moved in together, and it was just nonstop basketball.

And I'm sure a lot of.

A lot of people listening.

They have those friends where if they go out to a restaurant, they're writing on napkins and, you know, they're asking for a piece of paper when they're in a restaurant to talk about a play or so.

Well, you know, us, too.

We would just do that every day, all day.

You know, I mean, literally every day, all day.

And, you know, I can't thank him enough, because if I wasn't around him that much, I wouldn't have as much of a, you know, just kind of a basketball education and a different way of, you know, understanding the game and just bouncing around ideas and, you know, just having some intellectual curiosity with the game itself.

And, you know, so I would say, you know, he really just empowered me and sparked a lot of creativity.

And I would say that's where I really took a big leap, where I just kind of saw the game a different way, because he was such a unique thinker, and I just spent so much time with him.

You think that again, working so closely with a head coach in your first job.

Because obviously there are all different pathways into coaching.

Right.

So you have guys that get into it at the Division 3 level where maybe you're the only assistant or maybe there's a part time guy and you kind of have your hands and everything, and then there's other guys who start out and Maybe you're a GA at the D1 level, or maybe you're part of a bigger staff and your responsibilities are a little bit less.

Maybe you can't even get on the floor in some instances, or maybe you're limited to, you know, not being able to recruit off campus or whatever it may be.

There's all different pathways into the game.

But I always think that guys who get started in a job where you can kind of have your hands in every aspect of the program, those guys always speak to the idea that I just got to be able to experience what it's like to coach offense, to coach defense, to be involved in player development, to be involved in the planning of travel and the scheduling and just everything that goes about that.

So I'm just curious as to how you relate that experience in that first year as an assistant coach and kind of getting to have your hands and everything, how that's benefited you as you've gone through the rest of your career.

Yeah, so I think the main way it benefited me was that I was never really spoiled in any way, you know, so at Keystone, we were, we were the equipment managers, you know, we, we, we did everything, you know, so we're, you know, getting a PO for the bus, you know, so we're literally doing everything.

We're getting our hands dirty, you know, as coaches and we're staying late after practice to make sure the laundry's done and, you know, we're, you know, just making sure the balls are pumped up.

Like there's every aspect of the daily organization of a college basketball team that we're involved in.

So I think early on it was just really, just about not really being spoiled.

And, you know, we're not really at the top of the pay scale in the college basketball world at this time either, you know, so we're really grinding it out for, for the love of the game and getting our hands dirty.

And I would say that was just a real benefit.

Where I get to the point now where here at Hartwick we have an equipment manager, we have a strength coach, you know, at that point, I got certified myself as a strength coach when I was at Keystone.

And you know, so we're not just only the basketball coaches we were the strength coach.

So, you know, just.

Just wearing different hats was something that just made it.

So right now I'm just super appreciative to everything we have.

You know, just a full time assistant guy that's there all day, doesn't need another job, you know, an equipment manager, strength coach, and you know, an auxiliary gym.

And you know, it just makes us.

So right now, those things are all the more sweet.

You spent a couple years as the assistant there and then you get an opportunity to become the head coach.

And at the time, I know, I read that you were the youngest head coach in college basketball when you get that job.

So take me back to that moment in time and just where you were at from a mindset standpoint in terms of how prepared you felt versus once you actually got the job, how prepared you actually were.

Yeah, so it was, yeah, it was an interesting.

I still remember the day I think I was coming back from an alumni weekend at Fredonia and Nevada called me and he said, hey, I have some news that's going to change both of our lives.

And I'm thinking, oh man, like, what happened?

You know, did one of our guys get into something like, you know, this, this might not be good, you know, and he wouldn't tell me until I got home.

And then, you know, he told me the Rockets called him and he hadn't opportunity in the G League.

So I'm thinking, okay, perfect, we're out, you know, we're out of here.

And you know, he's like, no, they're probably going to give me some NBA assistant.

But the good news is, you know, I talked to the athletic director, Mac Grimaldi, and I told him he'd be a fool if he didn't hire you.

So then it became more real where it was like, okay, wow.

So then I go in, I talk to the athletic director and you know, he's just asking me some questions, seeing how prepared I am.

And you know, at this point, we're about to play games here shortly and we have another assistant who I can't thank enough, Sean Rossi, who actually he's coaching at Montclair State.

He's all time assist leader for Division 3 basketball and he played for Nevada when Nevada was an assistant at Ithaca.

And so it's really just me and Sean now.

And you know, so I talked to Sean and you know, see his readiness and you know, we, we're ready to go.

You know, we're excited.

You know, we're excited to do our own thing and we were just eager to get out there.

And, you know, luckily we.

We had some really mature players.

You know, we had a captain, Alex Smith, who, you know, was probably only two years younger than me at that time.

And, you know, he.

He really.

He helped the process.

I think he was our lone senior, and he was the one that was closest to me in age.

And, you know, he.

He was just, you know, professional about it.

And, you know, I think he was kind of the ringleader with the guys, where because he was so professional, everybody else just kind of treated me like a big brother, you know, so I wasn't like a father figure.

I was just kind of like a big brother out there coaching.

And Sean was even younger than me.

So, you know, I think once we got out there, I think we started like five and one that year, and we had some good wins that year to start off.

I believe we were 5 and 1.

I think one of our one loss was to the big dog, Glenn Robinson, at Franklin and Marshall.

And I remember being.

I think we might have been up five or seven points at that time, and here we are against Glenn Robinson.

He has his name on the court.

Me and Sean, we get in the locker room at halftime, like, man, this is easy.

You know, we're thinking we're going to, you know, run through this season, and he makes a little adjustment with.

With our front in the high post and flashes the backside and go high, low, and they're dunking all over us, and they end up winning the game by, like, 15.

And, you know, it was a real reality check.

But, yeah, I.

I look back to that first year, and I.

I don't know if it would have been possible without Sean.

And, you know, I think he's one of the best.

I think he's one of the best assistant coaches out there in the business, and I think that has contributed to some of Montclair's success.

All right, so to piggyback off that, tell me a little bit about what you think makes a good assistant.

What are the characteristics when you think about a great assistant coach?

What are you looking for as a head coach?

And what did you try to do during the two times when you had an opportunity to be an assistant?

Yeah, I think everybody's a little bit different, you know, so I was an assistant last year for a really good coach, coach Adam Stockwell, who, you know, I'm very appreciative for the opportunity to be in his program.

And even just in one year, I just learned so much, you know, so I'm forever indebted to him for just bringing me along.

And, you know, so what.

What coach Stockwell needs from an assistant might be a little bit different than, you know, what I need at this point, you know, so, you know, I think for some more experienced coaches, they, they really need, you know, they just might need more on the management side.

You know, they might need that guy who's going out looking for players nonstop, who's, you know, just making sure the daily operations are smoothly and just kind of, you know, just kind of doing a weed whacking for the head coach, if you will, where, you know, the head coach is mowing the lawn and, you know, you need that assistant to go out there and do the weed whacking and just make sure things are run smoothly.

Where, you know, when I was a young coach, I needed Sean to really be hands on and really do as much as possible, you know, because I needed him to take some off of my hands and, you know, put out fires and help me along the way and point things out as much as possible.

Where sometimes, you know, a more experienced coach who's been at it for 20 or so years, he might need a little bit less of that.

Um, but I think generally something that's important is being able to, as an assistant coach, being able to speak your mind and finding the way to do it the right way with.

With the assistant and not just with the head coach and not just being a yes man.

You know, some coaches may like that.

For me in particular, I don't really need that, you know, so I encourage my coach, Jared Benson, who has been great for us this first year.

I encourage him to, you know, speak out and tell me what his opinion is and to feel confident that, you know, it's, you know, it's never personal.

You know, if he feels that we're doing something that's going to hurt us, he has to feel confident enough to tell me that maybe we should get out of this.

How long were you into your time at Keystone before you felt like you had a pretty good handle on what you wanted your teams to look like, how you wanted them to play offensively and defensively when you get the job again?

You're a very young coach and stepping into your first head coaching position, so how long did it take into your tenure before you felt like, okay, I kind of have my feet underneath me.

I know what I want to do with my teams.

I know how I wanted to play.

I don't know if that question makes sense or if there's a specific timeline, but just, But Just how, how long did it take you to feel comfortable with who you wanted to be as a coach and how you wanted your teams to play?

I would say it took, it took me personally just starting off as a young coach.

It took me a while, especially, you know, some of that going through Covid and you know, the ups and downs that came with that.

But you know, I would say really, for me, it probably took about seven years really to just kind of have somewhat.

Not to feel like I've arrived or I know all the answers, but really just have a feel for it offensively and defensively.

And you know, I was kind of spoiled.

You know, if I could speak to my young self, I, I would, I would tell myself to not get too excited about some of the offensive success.

So I inherited three 1000 point scores.

Three guards that could really score, including Duncan Robinson, who ended up being the school's all time leading scorer.

Two guys that were top four and all time three pointers made and you know, they were undersized, but we could fly around and we could score a lot of points.

You know, we're coming off flats, we're shooting a lot of threes, we're having a blast, you know, we're hard to scout.

And then, you know, so I had those guys for two years and then, man, it became rough to score.

You know, when they graduated, it became really rough.

So you know, I, I go from thinking like, all right, we have all the answers offensively, we're just going to come off these flats, we're going to have our reads and the game is going to be easy.

And then when those guys graduated, you know, we struggled to put the ball in the hoop.

And then, you know, after that year then, you know, we started going after some size and some athleticism, guys who could defend and you know, we just couldn't score.

So then, you know, we have some decent years, probably about 20, 17, 18, we have.

Really good for us, we had a pretty good year.

We lose to Newman in the, in the playoffs, first round of playoffs, but we had a pretty good showing.

And then, you know, a couple years go by and Covid comes around.

And you know, I would say right after Covid, I started having a feeling of how we could win offensively and defensively.

And right after that had a great recruiting class right out of COVID you know, so we had Tone Cockrell, who, who was an all region player as a senior, as a grad, grad student.

And then we brought in Jack Anderson, we had Pete Laidley.

So then we started making some steps where we, you know, we felt like we were pretty good.

And then the year after that, we had Javen Flowers.

Jack was the MVP of the league.

Javen Flowers was a freshman who's like, the fifth leading scorer in the country who just had a really good year at Nichols, and, you know, just a young man who was extremely hard to guard.

And then we brought in Davell Jackson, who I recruited for about three years, and, you know, we finally got him.

And he averaged like 19 and 11.

Six foot six, six seven.

Just a phenomenal athlete and a really good person.

And, you know, things came together.

You know, we were hard to guard offensively.

We could change it up and do different things defensively based on who we're playing.

So I would say it really took about seven years to really get a feel for it, especially, you know, just starting off as a young coach.

Yeah, I always think that you clearly, as a.

As a.

As a young coach, right.

You have people who have influenced you.

The coaches that you played for.

In your case, you had worked for one other coach, and I guess two when you.

If you count your time working with your coach that you've played for as well.

So those guys are always right.

The biggest influence.

I know my first coaching job, the things that I did in practice, the way that I coach, were basically modeled on my high school coach, my college coach.

Those are the only two programs, coaches that I had really been around.

So everything that I did was based around them.

And if I wanted to go and do something different, well, I had to go and figure that out and look at film or figure out ways that I could do that.

And to be honest, I didn't do very much of that.

Probably that was one of the reasons, if I think about what my coaching career might have been or the direction it might have gone if I had put more time into it back then in terms of expanding my knowledge base beyond what the coaches that I had played for had done.

So I think that when you start talking about figuring out who you are as a coach, you start out kind of with this narrow viewpoint of knowing the people that you've been around.

And then slowly, as you expand out, right, you get out, you get.

You get the opportunity to.

To scout other teams.

And so now you're watching, you're seeing what they do.

And so now you can take bits and pieces of that.

And then eventually you get to the point, like you said, where it can take years sometimes to figure out, like, what am I all about as a coach?

Both Offensively, defensively, how I want to build my culture, all those kinds of things.

And then when you really start to feel comfortable now, that's when you start to know, hey, these are the kind of guys that work well with me.

Now I can figure out how to put all those pieces together.

And it sounds like that's kind of what was happening for you gradually over time.

So tell me a little bit about the culture piece of it.

Not so much the X's and O's, but how you went about at Keystone building the culture that you wanted in your team, in your locker room, on your practice floor.

What did look.

What did the culture building look like for you?

Yeah, so the culture building, I think it really started with just.

Just having a high standard for, you know, what you're going to accept and not accept.

So, you know, I had some tough decisions early on.

You know, I think back being a young coach, I was probably in, like, year four maybe, where there was an extremely talented young man from my hometown who's just coming off a 30 point game.

I mean, he was extremely talented.

Six five could do about everything at the time.

And we've actually had some communication since then, and he's a great dude now.

I just talked to him probably a couple months ago, but at the time, he just wasn't the best teammate, and so we had to let him go.

And that was a hard decision for me.

He's from my hometown, you know, he's playing for me here.

And, you know, it was just a decision that had to be done.

And I think, you know, when.

When you make some of those tough decisions, people look around and they understand what the standard is.

And, you know, I think early on that kind of set the tone.

And, you know, just over the years, just not accepting certain behaviors and holding guys to a high standard, and I think that really started us going in the right direction just in terms of our culture, to the point where I left where, you know, we.

Since COVID we are great citizens.

You know, like, we didn't.

There was no noise complaints.

There was nothing in the dorms.

You know, we had good guys.

We're over a 3.0 GPA.

You know, we were together and, you know, so those last few years, and I think that really helped lead to some success.

You know, so we made it to the conference championship, and, you know, they were just great guys.

And I think that's really where you start when you talk about team culture is, you know, what do you accept and what do you not accept?

And then when the players are starting to do some of that policing themselves, you know, and just kind of speaking for the coach.

And I think that's where we're heading right now at Hartwick, where, you know, guys are policing themselves just in terms of everything, you know, whether it's, you know, not walking on a water break and, you know, jogging off and, you know, hustling on and off the court.

I think we're to the point right now where the players are starting to coach other players, younger players or their peers, just in that direction.

And, you know, as a coach, that's all you can ask for.

Absolutely.

All right, tell me about the transition from going to.

Going to Hamilton and then the transition after one year from Hamilton.

What did you like about the opportunity at Hartwick?

So go through.

Go through those two.

Those two transitions, and then we'll start talking about what it's going to take to build the program at Hartwick in the vision that you have for it.

Sure.

So really, my.

My time at Hamilton was awesome.

You know, like, Coach Stockwell is one of the nicest guys in college basketball.

Just, you know, a great person.

And, you know, I just.

I don't have, you know, there's not enough things that I can really say about, like, he's just such a good dude.

And, you know, so that opportunity to be a part of his program was phenomenal.

And those players, man, I still, to this day, you know, I text them after games and they're in the NCAA tournament coming up this upcoming weekend.

You know, I expect them to get it done.

And, you know, so I'm really close with those guys, and they're the biggest takeaway from being there was just how great the people were, you know, so going from, you know, Owen Kane to Hank Morgan to Tasia to Cooper, like, they were just really good people and really reliable and professional.

You know, I think it's the first time ever that I've been part of a team where there hasn't been one player late to anything.

You know, not a practice, not a shoot around, not a departure time, nothing.

There wasn't a player late to anything.

And they're just, you know, super professional, polite and just really good people.

So I thoroughly enjoyed my time at Hamilton.

And, you know, I strive to have a makeup of a team that kind of is similar just in terms of the personalities and the character, the high character of that Hamilton team from last year.

And, you know, I learned a ton.

You know, I spent a lot of time on synergy, probably more time than ever just being on synergy as an assistant coach and just seeing some of the best teams in the country just approach the game in a different way.

You know, so we're going, whether it's going against, you know, Wesleyan and double overtime, which coincidentally just happened again, you know, to them this past year, just last week, or, you know, going against Amherst with two seven footers, or, you know, Trinity was a top four team in the country, or, you know, Tufts, who's, you know, ice and ball screens and super physical and aggressive.

Just so many different styles of play at a really high level.

So, man, it was really a treat for me to be in the NESCAC last year.

And you know, most importantly, like I said, it was just great people, just phenomenal, very professional people.

And, you know, one of the things that intrigued me about the opportunity here at Hartwick is I think we can bring in high achievers on and off the court, similar to what we did at Hamilton.

You know, I think we have the resources here, we have the basketball history, it's a great community here.

We have the facilities, we're in a strong conference.

I think we can really get Hartwick basketball close to where it was, if not in the same spot as it was under the legendary Coach Lambrose, who I talked to quite often.

And, you know, so we have a proud alumni base.

That was another thing that really intrigued me.

We have alums that truly care about the program and, you know, I talk to a couple, couple of them, you know, a couple of times a week and, you know, I just think it's a spot where there's a lot of opportunity and it's a program that's won in the past and we're in a strong conference with a lot of support from the administration.

Paul Vecchio really does a great job.

I'm his first hire here and, you know, I really believe in him and some of the things that he's doing here at Hartwick right away.

And he probably had the job a month before he hired me and, you know, I just think it's a spot that's on the rise, you know, I really do.

I think it's a spot where we can get quality recruits in here and we can compete again in the Empire 8.

When you get the job and you look at where the program was on day one, and in your mind, obviously you have a vision of where you want to take it.

What were the first one or two steps that you took to start to build that vision, that culture, that team that you had in your mind when you get the job.

So as soon as I got the job, the main thing is I spent a lot of time talking to the players.

Um, so I.

You know, that day, I think I might have talked to probably about eight different players before I even talked to my parents, you know, so I.

I spent a lot of time, you know, trying to get to know the guys and, you know, just talking to them and, you know, because I.

You know, it's a.

Kind of a cliche, but I really think that players don't care how much, you know, until they know you care.

And, you know, so I try to spend a lot of time just getting to know them individually and their concerns and, you know, some things that they're looking forward to and what they had going on this past summer and what they're working on.

So right from the start, I tried to spend a lot of time just getting to know the guys through a phone call, and then the next week it was an extended phone call, and then a week after that, it was a zoom call.

So I really just spent a lot of time just trying to get to know them as people.

So I would say that was the first step upon getting a job.

So as you're getting to know them as people, are you also kind of probing their mind for what the things were that they felt were going well?

What were some things that maybe they were looking for in a new coach that could maybe bring them some of the success that maybe had eluded them in the recent past?

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

And, you know, I spent a lot of time watching film, you know, so I probably watch every single possession they had, you know, the previous year, offensively and defensively.

So, you know, I had a pretty good feeling for, you know, the personnel and, you know, the makeup of the team.

So, yeah, absolutely, I had a better feel for that stuff.

But, you know, from day one and up until now, you know, one of the things that we preach as a staff is, you know, we have this saying, you know, we want to water the roots.

You know, we got to water the roots before we even think about eating a fruit.

And, you know, sometimes you have to water for weeks, for days, for months, and you may not see that result, but it's coming.

You know, if you consistently water those roots.

And, you know, our roots are around the things that, you know, are going to make us responsible members of the community.

You know, they're going to allow us to be professionals at our jobs.

You know, they're going to allow us to be reliable family members, and, you know, along the way I think that could help us win some basketball games.

You know, these, these roots, you know, to call it.

And it's, you know, how we treat people, you know, how we communicate with each other, you know, how reliable we are, you know, are we on time, are we respecting other people's times?

And these are the things that we're looking to water every day.

And from those first initial phone calls, you know, that's why I told the guys, you know, you know, we want to just keep water in the roots and eventually the results will come.

So beyond those conversations, obviously at the Division 3 level, you are very limited in what you can do with your players in the off season.

The eight days that were added.

Obviously every coach that I talked to at the Division 3 level is super thankful for those, for those days to be able to have the opportunity to have contact at least a little bit with your players on the floor in the off season.

But for the most part, you don't have that type of access like you might have at other levels in the ncaa.

So as a brand new coach, you're sitting there and you're looking around and obviously there's things that you want to do that you want to accomplish, but at the same time, you can't physically be on the floor with your team.

So what were some of the things that you're doing as you're chopping at the bit to get on the practice floor and actually work with your guys?

What are some of the things that you're doing in that first summer and into that fall last year to try to prepare yourself so that when you are ready to step on the floor that you can hit the ground running?

What were you doing outside of the basketball floor to prepare your program for the site type of success you want it to have?

Yeah, so that's a great question.

I think it was, I think it was two parts, you know.

So the first part was trying to figure out the most efficient way to introduce this new system and this whole new way of playing to these gentlemen.

And that, that was probably one of my biggest challenges because when I was at Keystone, you have guys that are used to, you know, our terminology and our actions for years and, you know, they have players that, you know, even if you only have, you know, three upperclassmen and, you know, say you have three seniors, you have four juniors.

Well, those seven players have been going through this terminology and these actions for a long time.

But when you have a group of 17 guys where everything is brand new, you really, in my opinion, I think you have to be really strategic about how you introduce things and, you know, whether it be from the terminology to the actions and, you know, the offense and plays and, you know, how you're going to play.

So really I just spent a lot of time trying to make sure that that was a smooth transition to learning this new, new offense and new style of play.

So then the second thing I would say is really just controlling what you can control.

You know, all the things that you mentioned make it for an uphill climb, you know, to start a program off when you, when you can't get on the court and you can't just show them.

And you only have eight days in the preseason.

So if you can control what you can control, that's your preparation and your knowledge of your opponents, you know, so really from the start, what I tried to do is, was, you know, every two days pick one team in the Empire 8 and really just study them and try to have the best understanding of them that I could have, and then maybe on a weekend, pick a non conference opponent.

But really it was just about diving into the Empire eight teams and really just trying to understand them the best that I could.

And that was, you know, at that point, that was the most I could do.

You know, that's what I could control.

All right, so tell me about the practice planning process for you.

Once you get to the fall, once you get to the opportunity to have your players on the floor, what does practice planning look like for you?

What's your process?

Where do you do it, how do you do it?

And then what are things that you want to incorporate into practice?

Just tell me a little bit about the practice design and how you go about putting a practice plan together.

Yeah, so I actually, I take a lot of time developing practices, especially once we get into, once we have games, you know, we have, you know, two games on a weekend, maybe a Tuesday game.

You know, every minute in practice is extremely important.

I would say in that first month, it's a little bit easier, you know, and, you know, so maybe you're not spending as much time on the preparation for practice, but still, you know, you're, you're still being very thoughtful and deliberate on the, on the, on the approach to the practice plan, but I would say skill development based around the offense, you know, so if we want to slip a lot of screens for three and then maybe be able to attack that, that closeout, we want to be able to become familiar with where that's going to happen from our offense and literally just Try to put our guys in position in their skill development where they're working on actions out of our offense.

And that's early on in practice and, you know, so it's some skill development, but very specifically out of our offense and then from there, you know, maybe breaking it down to three on three in a certain situation where they're able to make a read, so they're still doing the skill development, but they're able to make a game read, you know, so maybe, you know, there's two or three different outcomes that could happen after a certain action and then maybe turn that same action into going back three on zero and turning it into a competitive shooting drill.

So then going back down.

So, you know, starting three on oh, and it's about, you know, the fundamentals, the footwork and then playing live a bit and then turning that into a competitive shooting drill.

So I would say maybe about 15 minutes at the start of practice would look that way.

And, you know that that can entail a lot of different actions and a lot of different styles of play.

So I would say throughout the year, we would often start practice that way sometimes.

I got this from my, you know, like you said, we.

We often steal a lot from the people that we learn from.

So, you know, we've all done it.

You know, some people are a fan of it, some people aren't.

But sometimes when I just want to make sure we're ready to practice and we're ready to communicate and lock in and be sharp, we'll just go old school, five man weave, three and a half minutes.

You gotta make 36, no drops, no travels.

And, you know, so that's an interesting way to start off practice because if you're not able to do it, then you know, we get some conditioning in, you know, so occasionally, maybe once a week, we'll sprinkle that in.

But then through that, we really just want to be as competitive as possible in practice.

And you know, for us, you got to be able to adapt, you know, I think.

And that's, you know, for some of the young coaches listening, especially maybe starting a program or in high school, I think just being able to adapt and not just being set in how you're going to practice or what you're going to do every day or every year, and just being able to adapt to what you have is extremely important, you know, so I would love to practice, you know, full speed, 100 miles per hour, 5 on 5 on 5, rebounding, transition.

But at points in the first semester I was practicing, you know, so I was practicing and reffing, you know, about three days a week.

You know, we got nine healthy dudes and you know, so you have to adapt and you know, whether that's three on three on three breakdown drills and using those nine players the best you can.

And you know, I think adapting to what you have is extremely important.

You share the practice plan with players.

Like do you post in the locker room before practice or do you keep that to yourself so they kind of don't know what's coming.

I think that really changes from year, year to year.

You know, sometimes I've had very experienced teams who don't care what they're doing.

You know, they could be running for, for two hours and having a really competitive practice and they don't change a thing about what they do.

Sometimes you, you got some, some fellas that might be looking for some spots to take a rest, you know, so then you may not share as much as a practice plan.

For us, we, we have it on the table.

It's not really like it's posted, but just for the, for the scorekeeper, we have it on the table, but it's not encouraged for guys to just stare at the plaque practice plan.

And you know, also, you know, another interesting thing I stole from coach Stockwell was the daily emotional check ins.

So, you know, mental health being such an important part of the game.

One of the things that we do is when you start practice off, you just check off how you're feeling that day.

You know, so if it's a phenomenal day and you feel great, you might put a five.

You know, if it's, you know, a normal day, you might put a three.

If you're having a really, a rough day, maybe you failed a test or something else going on, you might put a lower number.

And that kind of just helps the coaching staff understand, you know, where you're at that day.

So that's also, I just thought about it because that's also on the right by the scores table.

And you know, so that's generally what practice looks like.

I would assume that that lends itself.

If you have a guy that says he has a tough day that maybe lends itself to a coach yourself or your assistant walking over and having a conversation with them maybe while they're out of a drill or maybe after practice or whatever, just to be able to kind of do that, check in and make sure guys are doing okay.

And I think that, look, I think Brad, that's a really underrated part of coaching.

And I Think when you go back to the era when you played basketball, or even going back further to when I played, I could probably say that my, my coaches probably didn't care too much about my emotional state coming into practice.

They expected me to be at whatever, whatever the level was they expected me to be at.

It didn't matter whether my day was a water.

It was a five.

I was expected, I was expected to be at a 5 as a, as a practice player in that particular day.

And so I do think that when you look at how the coaching profession has evolved, that, that ability that we have as coaches to have some, some empathy and to be able to understand that a player's life goes beyond just the two hours that they spend every day on the practice floor and see the players as human beings, I think it's, it's definitely a way that, yeah, it's definitely a way that, that coaching has changed.

And I also think that, and I'm sure you can attest to this, that when you start talking about building relationships with your guys, and for you, I think back to you get the job and you're having multiple phone calls and zoom conversations and in person meetings and talking to guys and really getting to know them.

And then you talk about being on the practice floor with them and the boss and all these things that being able to have a finger on the pulse of what a player's life is, not only on the floor but also off the floor, just helps to strengthen the connection that you have with your players, which I really feel like ultimately enables you to help them to be at their best, both as basketball players, but also as people.

And I'm sure that you feel that as well.

Oh, absolutely.

And, you know, one of the things that I want my players to feel is that, you know, sometimes some vulnerability is a strength, you know, so just being able to, you know, talk through your issues and just feeling comfortable enough to stop by the office and tell, you know, talk to coach about something you're having a hard time with is really extremely valuable just in life, you know, And I try to, you know, be that way with my guys and just kind of show them, you know, like, we can all be tough as hell and competitive and, you know, but sometimes also being vulnerable is a show of strength and, you know, that's what we want our guys to feel as.

Well, about developing leaders on your team and how you go about that process of giving guys the opportunity to lead.

Where do you find those opportunities in practice within your program?

How do you go about developing Leaders?

Yeah.

I think one of the main ways that I try to help develop leaders is it seems pretty basic, but I think times have changed quite a bit.

And I think sometimes you just gotta empower people to just speak in front of the group.

You know, I think more than ever, guys are used to just texting, you know, so they'll just, you know, they're talking to a teammate in a group chat or, you know, it's just I find more and more, especially since COVID that sometimes guys are just a little quiet and, you know, so I think, you know, just giving them opportunities to speak in front of the group, whether it be before practice, during practice, you know, so sometimes if maybe, maybe something's happening where I talk to the group, you know, about a certain thing or defending a certain way, maybe twice this week in practice, I might just stop it, look at one of the captains and say, hey, why am I mad right now?

And then they'll say, exactly, you know, why, why I'm upset.

And, you know, I think, you know, just, you know, being able to identify things like that is part of being a leader, you know, but then also being able to speak on it and being able to speak to different teammates that are coming from different backgrounds and who handle criticism different ways is, you know, one of the most valuable things that, you know, all athletes can get and bring to life after basketball.

You know, because you can't talk to everybody in every way and, you know, if you're able to be an effective communicator with different types of teammates from different backgrounds, I think that ultimately just helps you in life after basketball.

And, you know, that's part of going back to what I said earlier is using basketball as a tool, you know, just using basketball as a tool for life.

Now I think when I look at the kids that are growing up in my children's generation, so I have a 21 year old, a 19 year old and a 15 year old.

And so many of my kids, friends, yeah, most of their communication.

Right.

Is via text.

And so the kids that can talk to A, each other, but then B can talk to adults.

Those kids are very, very rare.

And those qualities tend to stand out in a big way.

And so if you can help your kids and foster that.

I like how you use the word empower rather than the word force.

I like that, Brad, that you got the, you know, that you're, you're empowering them to talk.

You're not forcing them to talk.

I like how you use that.

I like how you use that.

Vocabulary.

But yeah, to give kids that opportunity to be able to find their voice.

I think it's the same way for a coach.

Like, I've had a couple young coaches on here that talk to me about just the ability as a head coach to find your voice, that sometimes it takes a little while to sort of gain the confidence and the ability to speak authoritatively as a head coach.

And I think players sometimes feel the same way.

Like you might think, well, I didn't know what this situation is, but should I speak up?

Am I allowed to speak up?

Is coach gonna be mad at me?

Are my teammates gonna get upset?

And sometimes it just takes forcing a kid into that role to let them speak once.

And now all of a sudden they do it once and they realize that, hey, what happened here is a positive.

So now that gives me the opportunity to do it again next time.

And I think there's, I think there's definitely power in that when it comes to, especially people, young people today who, who do spend so much time in that, in that virtual world of, of just texting and using social media.

Oh, absolutely.

And I think, you know, that's one of the things I'm looking for when I'm recruiting.

And by the way, is your 15 year old, the one that's six.

Six?

No, my, my, my.

So my six.

My six, six son, actually Alfred, he was, he was down to.

Alfred was in his final, in his final four, so, so he ended up going to Ohio Wesleyan.

Oh, he was a, he was a, he was a freshman at Ohio Wesleyan.

My daughter, My daughter is.

My, is my 15 year old, so she's, she's, she's a pretty good player, but I don't think she's going to help you in any way.

So.

Yeah, my mind's always gone to recruiting.

So I remember completely, completely, completely understand.

Well, when I had, when I had coached DeWitt from Ohio Wesleyan, we, we didn't talk about my son on the podcast, but after, in our little post podcast chat coach to it, and I talked a little bit about him, so it ended up being a good conversation for, for both of us.

So.

Yeah, and, but, you know, like I was saying that that's one of the things I really look for.

You know, I want the guys that are, you know, really professional and that's kind of what we had at Hamilton.

You know, we might have, maybe not all the time, but there, there might be some times where one of the leaders will say, whoa, whoa, and stop the group himself and say, hey, why are we doing this?

You know, coach just said, blah, blah, blah, we got to do this.

We got a game coming up.

You know, and when guys feel confident enough to do that with the group, you know, in a group setting with their peers, and, you know, that's significant.

And that's one of the things we're looking for, you know, with our.

This first recruiting class is 25 recruiting classes.

The most important one for us because it's going to set the standard for the future here.

And it's a tough conference.

And, you know, I think that we can get those guys.

You know, I think we can get those guys.

So far, I think we have three of them committed, but, you know, I think we can get those young men that feel empowered enough to, you know, help.

Help the group achieve some of that fruit that we talked about previously.

How do you instill a winning mentality when you're in a program that is rebuilding the way that you guys are?

How do you teach guys, for lack of better way of saying it, how to win?

Right, because there's a certain.

There's a certain confidence that you have to be able to build up in your team that goes beyond just what you do as a basketball player, as a basketball team, X's and O's wise.

There's.

There's something that says, hey, we're.

We're ready to win.

We believe in ourselves that we can do it.

How do you go about instilling that in a team when you're rebuilding?

Yeah, I think the most important thing is really practicing what you preach.

And, you know, going back to what I said before about watering the roots, you know, so part of that is preparation, you know, and that translates to class.

Are we prepared, you know, with the work that's due in class, or are we doing things on time?

The same thing applies to basketball.

So, you know, we.

We had some tough losses this year.

You know, like Utica wins the league.

They beat us at the buzzer in overtime.

And, you know, so we competed.

You know, we had.

I believe it was 10 games by single digits.

We lost.

And, you know, so we're.

We're in these games, and no matter what the result, I think the most important thing that the guys would see from me is that my approach didn't change.

You know, so there's still the details in the practice plan for the upcoming game, whether we won or whether we lost a heartbreaker or if we lost by 15.

You know, my approach never changed.

Even when, you know, we were out of the playoffs and our last game of the Year is against Sage.

The preparation never took a drop off at all.

You know, so we're still, you know, going to practice for our opponent.

We're still going to watch film after practice.

They're still going to get about 50 clips sent to them that they could check out, you know, at their, at their leisure.

And you know, so they, they see that I'm not going to change, I'm not going to fold just based on the result of the game.

And I think that's how you get some of that fruit, you know, the fruit being wins.

I think you just have to be prepared and you have to stay consistent in your preparation.

And I think they see there's not a whole lot of, you know, woe is me or pouting, you know, on my end where we're diving right back into it.

You know, we're going to do the film breakdown, we're going to analyze this past year in our individual meetings throughout the year.

And you know, we're going to recruit and we're going to be very aggressive in our recruiting and we're going to right the ship.

And I think that's the most important thing that I can do as a coach is stay consistent in my approach.

That makes sense.

So you talked about the recruiting piece of it and obviously that's the lifeblood of any program.

When you look at the players that you want to bring in, obviously there is a level of basketball talent that you're trying to bring to your program.

But there's also, as you talked about a minute ago, you want guys who are leaders, guys who are not afraid to speak their mind, hold themselves, hold their teammates accountable.

What other intangibles are important to you as a coach?

As you build your program, what are some of the things that you're looking for beyond a player's ability to run, shoot, dribble, pass, jump.

What are the intangibles that are important to you and your program?

I think, you know, it's really important to me that the guys we bring in want to be a part of a team.

You know, they, they want, you know, one of my favorite things I hear is that they want to be a part of a team.

They want that community feel within the program and they want a strong team culture.

That's one of the things that really sticks out to me.

So I say in a recruit, I want somebody who is looking forward to this process and they understand that it's going to require a lot and that this is like a full time job, you know, where there's going to be film, there's going to be practice six days a week.

We're going to lift throughout the season.

You know, where it's a grind, you know, it's a very.

There's a lot involved in it.

And you know, people that embrace that process and are eager to be a part of it, those are the guys I'm looking for.

And you know, it's such a unique time in basketball where, you know, I watch a lot of, you know, like a lot of coaches, a lot of AAU and just, you know, a lot of games.

And sometimes it feels like people are playing for highlights and, you know, it's really that simple.

Sometimes I'm like, these players, like that Patrick Ewing quote in the game is one of my favorite I've ever heard.

He's like, hey, when do you work on that?

When do you take that shot?

And you know, I feel like sometimes in games players are out there playing in a way that's gonna help their Instagram highlight.

So, you know, I want guys that are dedicated to winning, dedicated to the process of being a part of a team and contributing to, you know, watering those roots.

But then also I look for professionalism.

So, you know, if I'm recruiting a kid and you know, he takes a week to get back to me or doesn't get back to me at all, you know, it's going to be a challenge.

You know, there's so many, you know, student athletes out there that want to be a part of a program and you know, if you're not being responsive or, you know, you're not responding in a timely manner, or you, you know, you're just not professional in your communication with a coach who, you know, if you're not looking at me like similar, like, like a boss, you know, or like a future employer, you know, if you're just, you know, just not very professional in your approach, that's something that's also going to turn us off here at Hartwick at least.

No, that makes 100% sense.

And that's one of the conversations that when my son was being recruited that I talked with him about non stop of.

Got to get back to coaches.

You got to talk to people, you got to tell them the truth about where you're at and where you're not at.

And last year was obviously a challenge because the FAFSA being delayed.

And so my son ended up talking to four or five coaches basically for his entire high school season because we didn't know how much any of the schools were going to cost.

And so you end up having those conversations for a long time.

And I think that that was one of the things that.

I think when it was all said and done, that even though some of the schools that he didn't end up going to, you know, were disappointed, I think that the way that my son handled it, and again, he handled that on his own, I was in the background kind of trying to guide him.

But I think what you just spoke to.

If there's any parents of basketball players out there, if there's any players that are listening to this, I think what you just gave as a piece of advice, I don't know that there's a better piece of advice out there for players in that if you want to be taken seriously as a recruit, I don't care what level you're being recruited, recruited at, that just getting back in a timely manner to coaches and.

And being respectful of the coach's time and understanding that if the coach is taking the time to text you or call you or show up at one of your games, they're genuinely interested in you, and it's important for you to get back to them and to be honest with them.

And I think that sometimes players and parents unfortunately take that for granted and ends up hurting them in the process.

Absolutely.

A great opportunity.

Yeah, maybe a great opportunity that could have been there for them, isn't there simply because they just don't take the time to.

To do what seems like a very, very simple thing.

Oh, yeah.

And then, you know, another layer of that is, you know, a lot of people are connected in different ways.

You know, so if, you know, one of my friends, you know, has a bad experience with.

With a recruit, whether it's, you know, just not being responsive or just something he did at a certain time.

Like, I go down and I work this event, I'm actually going down in a couple of weeks to work Kevin Driscoll's event down in Fort Lauderdale.

And he.

He mentions to the recruits something that I love.

He tells them not to do things that the coaches would put DNR on their recruiting packet.

Do not recruit.

You know, you're doing some of those DNR things and, you know, a friend of mine asked me, you know, about you as a player, and, you know, a friend of mine, if it's truly my friend, I'm going to tell him the truth and I'm going to tell him what I saw, you know, so, you know, there's things that you could do that could hurt you down the road, and you just Never know who knows who.

And, you know, so just being professional and, you know, just understanding that if you're going to a school, you have alums that are looking at you as a player, like you're representing, you know, your school, your current administration, the school as a whole, the alums, you know, so you just gotta be professional in your approach.

And that's one of the things that's really important to us in a recruiting process.

You know, we want high achievers on and off the court.

We want guys that are super competitive, but we want guys that, you know, are looking forward to the college basketball process, which is tough.

You know, it's the longest season in college athletics.

You know, it's a grind.

And it goes back to what you just said 20 minutes ago.

Control what you can control, right?

And look, your ability to return a phone call or a text or to be polite has nothing to do with your basketball talent, but it may be the difference between you and a kid who's equally as talented.

If you're the one that's more professional, you may get the opportunity that another kid misses out on.

Because I think that there's, to me, those simple things like that.

Again, if you're a basketball parent or you're a player, take care of those things that you can control that are easy.

And obviously the basketball has to take care of itself.

But if you can control the things that you can control off the floor, just in your interactions with coaches, you're going to be much, much better off.

And obviously from your standpoint, if you bring in those players who are professional, who have done that in the recruiting process, you can feel fairly confident that they're going to continue to do those things once they become a part of your program.

And that's how you start to get things going in the direction that you wanted to see your program get to.

And that's where the vision that you have for Hartwick basketball starts to come to fruition.

When your team is made up of a bunch of guys who have that professionalism, who have that leadership gene, who have all that stuff that bring all that to the table, now you're building the kind of culture and the kind of team that you want to have.

I want to ask you a final two part question.

So part one, when you look ahead over the next year or two, what do you see as being your biggest challenge?

And then the second part of the question, when you think about what you get to do each and every day, what brings you the most joy?

So your biggest challenge and Then your biggest joy.

Yeah, I mean, I think probably the biggest challenge is just keeping up with some of these teams in the Empire 8.

I mean, it's, it's a strong league and you know, some of the teams that were in the league, you know, might have had some down years, you know, like Fischer had a down year this year.

And you know, you cannot count on them having a down year, you know, for much longer.

So, you know, that's historically, that's a strong program.

And you know, you have Geneseo and Brockport who just joined the league, and Poly suny Poly.

And you know, Brockport's always going to, you know, be extremely talented and you know, Utica back to back champs now.

So, you know, just understanding the level of competition in the Empire 8 is really, you know, a blessing, you know, so that's probably our biggest challenge.

And you know, knowing that, you know, a team like Utica and some, some of the teams we may see next year, you know, they, they're playing basketball right now.

They have days of practice over us, you know, days of competition over us and experiences that are going to help them be better basketball players.

So, you know, just the league in itself, I would say is the biggest challenge.

And then the second part, you know, I, every time I see my parents, they kind of, at some point they always tell me and they, they laugh about the fact that, you know, at one point they would drop me off at the court with, you know, a gallon of water and maybe five or ten dollars for the whole day and I'd be out there in the heat just playing basketball by myself.

And you know, I, I've turned that into a life where I just do basketball full time.

You know, I don't have any other responsibility.

I recruit for a living, I watch basketball for a living.

I, you know, interact with my players.

I'm the CEO of a.

Pretty much a basketball organization and I couldn't be more fortunate for that.

So every day I wake up and, you know, I'm a basketball coach, you know, I may have to, you know, host a visit or, you know, talk to a few guys in the office or, you know, break down some film, have a practice, travel, go play a game.

But man, how lucky are we, you know, if we're able to make a living doing this and you know, like I said before, helping the impact lives and you know, helping some of these young men who come in as young men just become men and, you know, help them in their lives after basketball is such a blessing to me.

I always say that when you think about the opportunity to impact people and use the game of basketball, which we love to be able to do that, that's a special opportunity and it's one that I never take for granted.

And you know, again, it's.

I can never give back to the game what the game has given me in my life.

There's no possible way.

And I know you feel exactly the same way and it's come through loud and clear in everything that you said.

So before we get out, Brad, I want to give you a chance to share.

How can people get in touch with you, connect with you, learn more about your program.

So whether you want to share, social media, email, website, whatever you feel comfortable with.

And then after you do that, I'll jump back in and wrap things up.

Oh yeah.

So absolutely people can get in touch with me.

My social media is the handle is BradMichael11.

So that's a way to easily get in touch with me.

But then also my email is Cooper Bhartwick Edu.

And yeah, really, any coaches, any young coaches or anybody that just wants to talk ball or any way that I could help in any shape or form, I think that's a part of, you know, doing what you just said, giving back to the game, you know, trying to give back to the game more than it gave back to you.

And, you know, so I'm happy to help in any way I can for any listener.

Brad, cannot thank you enough for taking the time out of your schedule tonight.

Really appreciate it.

And to everyone out there, thanks for listening and we will catch you on our next episode.

Thanks.

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