A boy raised in a warrior culture challenges a tradition of fear and brings peace to a feud that has spanned generations.

Are you just watching episode 163, how to train youn Dragon?

Welcome to the podcast that shares critical thinking for the entertained Christian.

I'm Eve Franklin.

And I'm Tim Martin.

And you know what?

I don't know that we ever, in this podcast, reviewed the original how to Train youn Dragon.

I checked.

We didn't.

Today we're going to talk about the new live action one, but I suspect we'll probably end up talking about the animated one too, because they're practically identical.

Yeah, it's going to be hard not to.

Yeah, there's some differences, but they're very close.

In fact, they're so close that the music is by the same composer and I suspect pretty much the same.

I didn't actually do a comparison between the two soundtracks, but I think they're pretty much identical, just like everything else.

Maybe they just reused the original.

Yeah, well, John Powell is the composer and he's done all of the how to Train youn Dragon music.

So if you go and look in his filmography list of things that he's composed, it's full of how to Train youn Dragon stuff.

So because it's not just the original movie.

There was a sequel, there's been games, and then there's been this remake.

So lots of how to Train youn Dragon stuff.

And he's composed all of it.

So let me play just a little bit of the theme to get us going in this discussion.

Okay, well, that set the mood.

Yes.

Lovely music.

I just, you know, love those kind of action packed scores that just kind of, you know, they're just fun to listen to.

Okay, so as we've already mentioned, almost identical.

There were a couple, at least that I saw, a couple differences between the two movies that stood out to me.

I did watch the movies back to back.

I had the thought right before I went to see the movie in the theater to see if Max had the.

Or HBO Max.

They just named it back again if HBO Max had the Movie.

And they did.

So I watched it the night before I went to go see it, the new one in the theater.

And so I had that one fresh in my mind and I was able to do kind of like a live comparison.

I did it the other way.

I went to see the movie and then watched the animated one to try and figure out what the differences were.

Yeah, mostly one for one.

I mean, even like the dialogue was almost the same.

The Biggest difference that really stood out for me.

And it's actually one of the things I appreciate about the movie was, you know, they had to kowtow to the societal pressure of having a diverse cast, which doesn't make sense in a Viking city gobbledygook.

Yeah.

So anyway, they did a very good job of explaining why they had a diverse cast, which I appreciated.

And I went back to just.

Again, right before we recorded, I went back and checked the beginning of the original animated movie just to make sure it really was different.

And it was after the initial attack in the town where, you know, Hiccup causes lots of devastation because he gets in the way.

And they have this grand meeting around the table.

In the animated movie, they're all Vikings.

Stoick, Hiccup's father, his speech to them about going back to find the nest was, you know, we're Vikings, and this is what we do.

And they were all Vikings there.

So in the live action, that was actually more of a scene.

There was actually a longer scene there.

And they took the time to introduce the idea that all of the peoples that the Vikings traded with had problems with dragons, and they had sent the best of their best of these clans to Burke to fight the dragons.

And so that explained why we had Asians and we had blacks and we had, you know, all of the different ethnic peoples and the children themselves were all different ethnicities because they were all the children of these clans who had to fight the dragons, and they had all consolidated in Burke to fight the dragons.

So they took the necessity of trying to cast a movie like this without offending all the ethnic people who have problems if they can't see themselves in a movie.

They took that necessity and they actually worked it into the movie.

And I appreciated that.

It made it feel like they thought that out instead of just throwing a random black person and a random Asian into a movie just because.

So anyway, that was actually a positive for me.

I appreciated that, you know, the cast was by necessity diverse and that they had a good explanation for it, because otherwise it wouldn't have made sense to have all of those ethnicities in a Viking, because the Vikings were very Nordic.

As a people, and they've always had problems with dragons.

The Vikings.

Yeah.

So the thing that was the most the same between the two movies were the dragons.

Yeah.

I felt like after watching the two movies back to back, that every scene that had a dragon in it, all they did was take that scene out of the animation and reskin the dragons to make them more realistic.

Because the movements, everything about them was practically identical.

I couldn't see a difference.

I'm sure if you overlaid the two movies on top of each other, you might see small differences, but I think they were almost identical.

The Nightmare, I think, was changed significantly around the head, but all the rest were, you know, almost the same model.

Right.

And, you know, I think it probably made it easier for them because, number one, they didn't have to spend so much money reinventing the dragons because they already had them animated.

It's a lot easier to reskin a three dimensional thing than it is to start over from scratch.

And so I think it just saved them a lot of production time.

And then number two, when they were staging and framing for the live action, to have that to refer to, which probably very easy because most of the time when you're creating a movie from scratch, where you're using CGI and animation, the CGI and animation takes so long that they're done in post production.

So you're staging and framing with storyboards, which makes it a lot harder to interact with something that isn't there.

And so I think this may have made the live action part of the acting even better because they already had the animation, they just had to reskin it.

And so I think that probably made that part a lot easier as well.

So I think it did.

I don't know.

I mean, I don't know whether that's the case or not, but that's what it logically seems to work for me.

But I thought the live action was done very well.

And, you know, a lot of people are going to say, is this really a new movie?

Is this really a live action?

Yes, it is.

Because I think it's actually harder for actors to act with something that isn't there.

Yeah.

Than to voice over an animated character.

I wonder if they would have been.

If they, you know, if they just did the reskin, I wonder if they would not have been able to take advantage of technological advances.

I'm curious how much has changed since the original one came out.

Probably quite a bit, I would think.

Well, I'm just saying they didn't have to reinvent it.

Yeah, exactly.

They could have taken the old files and had the.

Already had the 3D and the animation, all that stuff, and just upgraded the skinning.

It still would have taken production time.

I'm not taking away from all of the artists that stand over the film in the credits.

The special effects and the animation credits went on forever.

But I'm not taking away from the work they did.

I'm just saying they didn't have to reinvent the wheel.

They already had it.

The storyboarding at least was already done, right?

Yeah, yeah.

Angles, framing, everything.

You sent me a really cool video and you'll have to put a link in the show notes of kind of the behind the scenes.

And I thought it was very interesting how the actors were saying that they didn't have to like act a lot of this on.

On stage and blue screen.

They actually had real sets, which gave them more of a feeling of authenticity when they were in the role, which was nice.

Did you notice that they were all, as they interviewed the actors, they were all dressed up, bundled up in coats and hats and stuff.

I figure it's because they the set so cold.

And I think sets have to be kept cold anyway because I always, you know, I make a note of.

Of when I see somebody's breath in a movie.

But it sort of added to the authenticity to me, you know, it's a cold north of Burke.

And here that here the actors are in their real Personas.

I watched the two movies I couldn't find.

I actually watched it because I was curious about the elder, the woman in the live action because I couldn't remember her in the animated one.

But she was there.

He was there.

Yep, just barely.

I mean, the.

The character in the animated one was like three and a half feet tall compared to this one, who sort of reminded me of Judi Dench.

As far as live action goes, I actually found it more engaging.

I felt more pulled in.

Even though I really enjoyed the animation one, I feel like I connected more with this one because it was, you know, that much more connectable.

I guess the guy who plays Hiccup, I had to look it up to make sure it wasn't the same guy who voiced him because he sounded a lot alike.

Well, it sounds like a lot of the actors grew up with the original.

Exactly.

That was a while back when I.

Was looking at Mason.

His last name is spelled T H A M E S, which is the Tim's in England.

I don't know if it's Thames or not.

So yeah, Mason is right handed, but he actually, he did all the stunts and he acted left handed because that's what Hiccup was.

And I got a kick out of, you know, his dedication that way.

And yeah, I really liked.

Gerard Butler is one of those actors that I don't think I've ever seen him in anything that I don't like.

And he, he was good as the voice of Stoic in the original, in the animated one.

But he really was able to communicate through body language and facial expression how much Stoic wanted to be able to connect with his son and how frustrated he was that he couldn't.

And I really did appreciate that.

You know, I. I was an adult when the first one came out.

My kids were.

My kids were little.

When did the first one come out?

Actually, 2010.

I just looked it up.

So 15 years.

Wow.

Yep.

Oh, man.

No wonder some of the actors grew up with it.

Yeah.

I still connect with Hiccup in particular, how awkward he is and how he's different.

And I suspect that a lot of people, particularly creative people who didn't fit into the jock stereotype or didn't fit in a clique in high school.

I feel like Hiccup is a relatable character for all of us.

All the nerds.

Yeah, yeah, really, exactly.

All the nerves.

That's exactly right.

I appreciated that they added depth to both Astrid and Snotlow.

Snotloud in particular, who is I considered a throwaway character in the first one.

They really.

They gave him sort of his own little story arc in this.

Yeah.

That was.

The other significant difference that I marked between the two movies was not Lout's character development and his relationship with his father, which was non existent in the first movie, not the relationship, which was also in this movie, at least at.

The start of the movie.

Yeah, yeah, it's.

And Astrid seems to have more.

She's more than just a pretty face in the live action one.

She has ambition and, you know, she's planning on being the chief one day and all that.

So they had depth that I appreciate.

I liked how they did the dragons.

They all felt more real to me, which is good.

You know, I grew up with movies with animated films like the Hobbit and Flight of Dragons and the Last Unicorn and all that.

So seeing these animated in such a realistic manner is sort of cool to me.

Oh, and Dragon Slayer.

Can't forget Dragon Slayer.

But I'll tell you, the big dragon at the end was really awe inspiring for me.

When it came out, I was like, ooh, that's bigger than I remember.

So, yeah, you know, as far as the pacing goes, I.

Coming out of the movie, I never would have guessed it was more than 30 minutes longer than the animated version.

I didn't feel it in the slightest.

As a matter of fact, I thought it may have been shorter.

Well, they extended a lot of the scenes.

The scenes were all there.

Oh, yeah.

The same, but that some of them were longer.

So.

Yeah, yeah.

Actually, I read that the dragon attack on the longships when Stoic had Toothless bound on the boat was much longer in the live action version, which I appreciate.

And like I said, the council at the beginning was like, twice as long.

Oh, yeah.

Because they had to introduce all the characters.

Yeah.

He went around and saying, you came to us when, you know, dragons ate your cattle or whatever.

Yeah, yeah.

The only real complaint I could possibly generate about this is I sort of wish they had played on our expectations and flipped the script somewhere.

You know, something different happened.

I understand they are already working on the sequel, and I'm sort of hoping the sequel isn't just a remake of the animated sequel.

The other sequel, it's more original because I feel like there's more to do with these characters.

I think the second one is the story of Hiccup's mother.

Right.

I don't remember ever seeing the sequel.

I may have, but I don't really remember the story.

Yeah.

So I couldn't tell you.

I won't give any spoilers.

Then I actually.

With diversity, when I was going through and making notes and checking everything, the diversity reminded me of our disagreement in Spider Man Homecoming with the high school.

And I don't have any problem with diversifying a cast.

I don't even care if, you know, the ethnic makeup of a family doesn't match, because I want the best actors for those roles in there.

And I'll tell you what, the girl who played Astrid, she was spot on.

And she.

And she played the anger very well, too.

If I thought they were choosing actors based on their performance rather than their diversity, I would agree with you 100%.

Yeah, but that's not why our society or why Hollywood is doing it.

They're doing it for a completely different reason.

But, you know, it seems like, you know, they're damned if they do and they're damned if they don't.

Because if they don't have diversity, then there are complaints from one side saying, oh, you didn't diversify your cast, and yada, yada, yada, you're not helping.

Well, didn't I just say that I appreciated that they explained it well?

Yeah, yeah.

They took a necessity.

And I mean, I didn't diss the movie at all for its diversity.

I said I thought they did a good job of working it into the story.

I was thinking necessity because of Hollywood.

Yeah.

I was thinking of when it happens the other way.

There was a movie not that long ago that, you know, should have had an all Asian cast or something like that.

I feel like it was Mulan, but Mulan was definitely an Asian actress.

And they made a big deal about how they whitewashed the cast by not casting an Asian actress to.

To play it or something.

Might not have been Mulan, but it was something like that.

So, you know, you just can't get away with anything anymore.

Even doing it right.

There's still gonna be people complaining, so.

Well, that's the thing is, like I said, they.

They did it well here.

They did it well.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And, you know, there's times where they don't.

But I think that.

I think the one that bugged me, and honestly, I brought it up when we were talking about Spider man because it shocked me.

But understanding that New York City nowadays is very diverse, you know, I stand corrected on that one.

But the one that really bugged me was the live action of Beauty and the Beast, where it's supposed to be a provincial French town, and they had all of these diverse people in it, and they didn't even explain it.

And it's like, these people would not have been in this era in France because they couldn't have gotten there.

So, you know, it's like when they just do it just for the sake of having a diverse cast.

Although, you know, you think.

You think of that.

And the Moors were already in France.

Whatever.

Anyway, you know, you can explain it away lots of ways.

It doesn't bug me when it's part of the story and they actually make a point of explaining it.

Yeah.

Why they have a diverse.

I do appreciate that they explained it away.

Yeah, they made it part of the story.

It was well done here.

Not always.

We all done any everywhere.

And it's a shame that we can't make a historically accurate movie anymore, because if you're historically accurate, you might offend somebody.

So it's like, okay, whatever.

And if you're not historically accurate, it.

Is what it is.

You might offend somebody.

Yeah.

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Thank you.

Our first theme, which I think is probably the most obvious of them for this particular movie, is a topic on feuding and the tradition that comes with feuding.

I was thinking about this from the standpoint of just cultural animosity and how we make enemies of people and then we other them.

You know, that it's kind of a modern term to say we other somebody, but you turn them into something that is not a person so that you can then feel justified in hating them and killing them and despising them or whatever.

So that is definitely the setup of this movie.

Even though the dragons are not people, they have been othered.

It's been this tradition of long standing.

We get the idea from the monologue at the beginning and through the council meeting that this.

This animosity, this war with the dragons has been going on for generations.

And it killed Hiccup's mother.

His mother was carried away.

And the livelihood of the village, the sheep, all of that stuff, they have a hard time feeding themselves through the winter because the dragons take all of their livestock.

So it is feuding that has been going on for a long time.

And this is something that we can see historically as well.

I was thinking of.

There's been a lot of feuds historically in the States with.

Yeah, what was it?

Hatfields and McCoys.

Hatfields and McCoys.

Yeah.

I remember seeing a documentary about that once that was super interesting about the generational hatred that went on there.

And they're not the only families.

My oldest sister was married to an actual hat family.

Oh, really?

That survived the.

The feud.

And you know, that happens too.

It's gang rivalry is feuding.

There's nations that feud.

So like the Jews and the Palestinians in Gaza.

That's a feud that's been going on for generations.

Even like Russia and Ukraine right now, that's a feud.

It's a war.

But it's also a feud because these peoples, while close together, have hated each other for a really long time.

In fact, the Ukrainians used to be subjugated to the Russians during the Soviet era.

So there's some long standing animosity there.

Jews in the Holocaust, that was an instance of othering a group of people.

That was one sided.

That was very one sided.

Yeah.

Western expansion.

We've turned the Native Americans who were in the west into savages so that we could justify sending the military in and wiping out entire villages of them or moving them off of their land because gold was found or silver was found in their territories.

Trail of Tears comes to mind.

It's not always a feud.

Sometimes it's just othering somebody that you want to get out of your way.

But it is something that humanity has done for a very long time.

In fact, one of the most famous plays written by Shakespeare was all about a family feud.

Romeo and Juliet, the Capulets and the Montagues.

And that is if anybody.

And the really interesting thing about Romeo and Juliet is it's been.

The story of Romeo and Juliet has been retold in many different ways through cultural icons.

It doesn't even have to be Romeo and Juliet anymore.

That story of the star crossed lovers crossing over between two feuding families, It's a long standing tale.

In fact, I always wished going back to when you and I first started this podcast together.

Well, I'd already started the podcast with someone else, but when we started podcasting together.

Yeah, I always wanted to do a review of the movie Warm Bodies.

It's been one of my favorite, favorite movies, but it's.

I think a lot of people bypassed it because it was a zombie movie.

Most people don't like zombie movies, but when you actually watch.

Based on your recommendation, I have since gone back and watched it.

I was pretty pleased with it.

It was pretty good.

Yeah, well, it's Romeo and Juliet and most people don't notice that it's actually super obvious if you're looking for it because the zombie is R and the girl that he rescues is Julie.

So it's Romeo and Juliet and there's a balcony scene, everything.

It's all.

Yeah.

So anyway, that's a.

If you're wanting to watch a cute remake of romantic, Warm Bodies is a cute movie.

That's a little off topic, but just threw that in there for fun because it's a movie that has a great commentary about humanity in our culture today and how we've all turned ourselves into zombies with our technology.

We have.

I mean, it is what it is.

No, no, you're absolutely right.

The movie was absolutely right too.

Basically, you know, when you talk about making them others, I think it's, it's a step further.

Especially when I think about, you know, what Hitler did with the Jews and, and everywhere else.

It's not just others for me.

It's less than us.

Yeah.

You know, they are less deserving than us or they are less people than us.

They are only, what was it, 3/5 of the human being and how to train your dragon.

It's, you know, they, they say monsters and, and beasts and, and everything like that, but we learn through hiccups, actions that they're actually quite intelligent.

You know, not sentient people level maybe, but certainly more than the bloodthirsty beast that stoic and.

And the rest had come to believe.

And I really appreciate that.

And you know, in reality we've got lots of dangerous creatures.

Bears and lions and tiger.

Oh no wait, lions and tigers and bears.

Bears.

Oh my.

Thank you.

But the thing is, is, you know, that danger makes us respect them.

They inspire this necessary caution when we are in their domain.

And of course we don't see that caution in either the animation or the live action, it's both times I watch it, like, why in the world did they just not lock their sheep up?

Yeah, well, the sheep have to eat.

Yeah, yeah.

But, yeah, it's more than just others for me.

It's, you know, I'm more important, I'm better, therefore I deserve more.

I'm superior or even I'm a person and you are not.

And that's just that, it's.

That's one of those things where it's really easy to see in hindsight, particularly if you were not the one doing it.

But it's not so easy to see when you're the one doing it.

You know, you, you, you gotta.

You have to police yourself and, you.

Know, question your traditions.

Because I think that in this instance, you know, the children are raised to hate.

And we kind of see that happening in, like, the thing that's going on with Gaza and, and even just the ongoing animosity that we have for the Muslim world against the rest of the world because they raise their children to hate the infidel.

And these kids are willing to die just like their fathers are in a cause that is so wrong.

And that's kind of what we see going on here in Burke, is that the children are raised to hate dragons and to become dragon slayers, and they're trained to do it.

And I think that we see that happen a lot in our culture where the children are raised in a.

In an environment of hate and they take that hate on as just a matter of fact.

They don't know why they hate.

They have no reason to hate unless they were taught to hate.

And they don't have any reason to hate the object of their hate because they're just told to.

It becomes tradition.

And that's the problem with feuds, is they're trained through generations.

You had put a quote at the beginning of our outline, which I think is probably one of the most powerful lines in the film, particularly in this theme.

Astrid says, in case you forgot, our parents, war is about to become ours.

Figure out what side you're on.

And that's really what it's all about, you know, inheriting a war and not knowing why any more about it than what you've been told.

Right.

So, yeah.

And, you know, looking at it from the other side, the dragons, I think it's not equally true.

I think the.

Almost the same thing is true for them because they've been feeding this elder dragon for, you know, generations too.

They don't know any other way to do it.

And the humans have been fighting them, so they've been fighting back.

So it really is.

It's a endless cycle of destruction that we're seeing in here.

And I appreciate that they set that up so well, both in the animated film and in the live action film.

It really works.

There was another line in there that worked really well to that.

It was when Hiccup was arguing with his father about the dragons.

And his father says, they've killed hundreds of us.

And Hiccup replied, and we've killed thousands of them.

So it's like it works both ways.

So I feel like we couldn't really open the Bible to a random page without finding something that speaks against this behavior.

But one that stood out to me was Romans 12, 17, 21.

Do not repay anyone evil for evil.

Give careful thought to do what is honorable in everyone's eyes, if possible, as far as it depends on you.

Live at peace with everyone, friends.

Do not avenge yourselves and instead leave room for God's wrath.

Because it is written, vengeance belongs to me.

I will repay, says the Lord.

But if your enemy is hungry, feed him.

If he is thirsty, give him something to drink, for in so doing, you will be heaping fiery coals on his head.

Do not be conquered by evil, but conquer evil with good.

And I appreciate that in particular, because it's one of the ones that people who want to find problems with the Bible always point to and say, well, what's.

What's true?

Is it eye for an eye, tooth for tooth, or don't repay evil for evil.

They miss out something on the eye for an eye because the.

The whole concept of eye for an eye meant that you weren't giving an a murdering somebody for an eye, because that was the way savagery worked back in those cultures.

It's like somebody took out your eye or somebody chopped off an arm or something, and then you went and killed them or killed and killed their whole family and raised their village.

And eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, was.

You don't give a more than.

It's the same, you know.

Yeah, it's not quite a de.

Escalation, but it's not an escalation.

And that's the important part.

And, you know, feuds are particularly ones like Hatfield, McCoy and Romeo and Juliet.

They're all built on bitterness.

You know, there's an insult to a daughter or livestock was stolen or something like that.

But as Christians, we're called to put aside bitterness.

And if we allow that bitterness to split the word tells us that it will take root and it will poison both our actions and our relationships.

In Hebrews 12:15, it says, make sure that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no root of bitterness springs up, causing trouble and defiling many.

And that's the thing is, you know, that bitterness grows.

The take root thing is pertinent because it grows into a fruiting plant and not in a good fruit either.

A fruit that just poisons everything around it.

Yeah, and we'll talk a little bit more about this, but it's not weakness to be a peacemaker.

I know you love your Sermon on the Mount almost as much as you love James and Ecclesiastes, but in Burke hiccups, you know, he's called a traitor.

I think he is literally called a traitor in the movie.

And, you know, he's the only one who is actually making progress.

And I really think that it calls Back to Matthew 5, 9.

Would you like.

Would you like this one?

Since, you know, it's one of your favorites.

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God.

And there's really even more places in the Sermon of the Mount to speak to this, because there's the section in Matthew 6 where Jesus tells them that, you know, if your enemy tells you to go one mile, go with him too, so you don't return evil for evil.

You.

You.

And that sure makes Christians into pacifists and peacemakers, because we just.

We're not supposed to stand up for ourselves.

We're supposed to turn the other cheek and go the extra mile.

Yeah.

Well, before we move on to I think, what will dominate the rest of our episode, I do want to quickly talk about one of the things that is different in this movie that we've actually kind of already touched on, and that is the relationship that is presented about Snotlight and his father.

And it also is kind of a shadow of the relationship between Hiccup and his father, which is there's two fathers, and both of them end up reconciliating with their sons in the end in this movie.

But the reconciliation is based on their sons actually proving themselves to be the sons their fathers wanted them to be, which is not necessarily the kind of reconciliation that should happen between fathers and sons.

And I wanted to touch base on that because we see that Stotlout's dad is very dismissive, almost absent, and Stotlout is like, hey, dad, here's what I did, and blah, blah, blah.

And his dad's like, go away and Then Hiccup is actually being emotionally abused by his father.

It's like, oh, yeah, I don't like anything about you, you know, at all.

You know, but they never say that outright.

Well, if they do, it's like you just gestured at all of me.

Yeah.

Like three times throughout the movie.

You're just.

You be less of you.

You.

Yeah.

So one of the things that came to mind when I was looking at the relationship of these fathers with their sons is the fact that boys learn from their fathers.

Their fathers are their role models.

And when you look at the scripture about how fathers are supposed to raise sons, and there's a lot of it.

We've talked about this in other episodes, so I'm not going to, like, beat this horse that hard, but I just wanted to raise a couple passages again.

Proverbs 23, 24 through 25 says, the Father of righteous son will rejoice greatly.

The one who fathers a wise son will delight in him.

Let your father and mother have joy, and let her who gave birth to you rejoice.

So this is just a reminder that a wise son makes his parents look good and that they can take joy in him, which is something that we see.

Hiccup and Snotlow, in the end, give their father something to rejoice about because they do take great acts of courage to save their.

Their fathers who have done a very foolish thing.

And.

But in.

But in the end, both of them had been suffering under something that, you know, it says in.

In Ephesians 6, 4, it says, fathers, don't stir up anger in your children, but bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord.

Well, both of these fathers were not abiding by that.

They were stirring up anger in their children because they were absent.

They were mean.

And maybe that's just the way Vikings are supposed to be.

I don't know.

I don't know that we really know that much about Vikings.

There are, other than the stamp that they left on the.

The world as they had journeyed about in their very fancy boat.

But.

And then Also in Colossians 3, 19, 21, it says, Husbands, love your wives and don't be bitter toward them.

Children, obey your parents and everything, for this pleases the Lord.

Fathers, do not exasperate your children so that they won't become discouraged.

And specifically in this passage, it applies very well to Hiccup because we see that Hiccup was not obeying his father.

Whenever his father told him to stay put, he would immediately, as soon as his Father turned his back.

He was out doing things that got him in trouble.

But then at the same time, it says, fathers do not exasperate your children.

And we saw Stoick exasperating hiccups constantly, you know, berating him, telling, not understanding how he was unique and different and catering to that.

He was just trying to make him into a Viking boy and being completely disappointed in him.

Which I was actually just rewatching the scene where in the animated.

And it was also in the live action where Hiccup is pretty.

He's like.

He looks at me as if he was given the wrong sandwich at the pub.

Like, excuse me, barmaid, you seem to have given me the wrong boy.

But it's sad because what Hiccup's father was doing to him was.

And I've already said it, it borders on emotional abuse.

And yeah, I think that when we look at our culture today, a lot of our problems in society, the root cause could be traced to neglectful and absent fathers.

Because we have a lot of boys in our culture, in our society, in the west anyway, who have been raised by single mothers.

And that's not the fault of the mothers most the time, or who have fathers who are distant at home, you know, strong disciplinarians, but without love or abusive or simply not there because they work too much or.

Or for whatever reason.

And I'm not saying that's all boys.

I'm just saying that a lot of the problems we see in our society comes from boys raised in those types of homes because they don't have good role models.

And we hear the feminists, you know, berate toxic masculinity and all that.

A lot of that comes because boys don't know how to handle their masculinity because they haven't had good fathers to raise them in self control and discipline.

Yeah.

So learning from media.

Yeah, they're learning from media.

How men are supposed to be in media does not portray well.

No, it's sad.

And even this movie doesn't necessarily portray men well.

It's.

They're hyper masculine Vikings.

And so the only one isn't really his Hiccup, who's thankfully the hero of the story.

Even Astrid is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I just wanted to bring that up because I think it's important to remind ourselves regularly that especially men in the church need to be on the lookout for boys who need those good male role models and take them under their wing and raise them up to be good men.

Because if you're relying on their single moms or their absent fathers to do it.

We're a church.

We are the body.

We are family.

And it's up to the men in the church to keep an eye out for boys who need those men in the family to step in and give them the discipline and the love and the example that they need to grow up to be good, godly men.

That's my challenge.

So I wanted to comment real quick on Stoics conundrum in this movie, how, you know, he really wanted Hiccup to be a true Viking.

And I sort of feel like I know where he's coming from, from a Christian father standpoint, because my three kids, you know, they're all grown and they have careers, and two of the three are moved away in the military, whatever.

And my daughter, who lives at home with us is.

She just had her 28th birthday and she just got her first job as an rn.

So, you know, they're all adults.

And as they were growing, I wanted them so badly to be the kind of Christian that I wasn't growing up.

I wanted them to feel the love of God and just embrace it.

And, you know, none of the three ever did that.

And, you know, looking back now, I'm like, okay, a big part of the Christian faith is growing into it.

And I didn't do it until I was probably 25 or 30.

I didn't really start to understand how it all fit together for me and really see how it could impact my life.

And it's a lot like with kids, you know, they say you gotta let them make their own mistakes, and we just lead them as best we can.

And that's the difference between stoic and what Christian fathers are called to do.

Christian fathers should be guiding, but not forcing.

And Stoick in the movie is forcing.

Even though I feel like he doesn't realize that he's forcing, he's just doing it that way because that's the way it's always been done, done.

You know, his father put this gigantic axe in his hand when he went to dragon training or whatever it was.

So that's how he did it.

So I really appreciate that.

You know, they have Stoic go through this.

And one thing I didn't catch.

Another difference between the movie and the animation is in the animation, they don't say how they all got back from the battle with the big dragon, but in the movie, it's verified that they all rode dragons back.

And it created a moment between Hiccup and Stoic that you didn't get.

In the animation where Hiccup realizes that Stoick really is changing.

Yeah.

You know, he's really.

That the change Hiccup brought is having an impact on his father.

And I thought that was pretty special.

Yeah.

So one of the problems I had with this movie was not actually with this movie, it was with me.

When we normally get together to do the outline and do our recording, we each come up with, you know, two or three themes and we write out those themes and talk about them.

But I couldn't come up.

I couldn't come up with multiple themes for this one because for me, it all came back to how Hiccup solved decades or centuries long war.

We don't know how long it's been going.

Generations anyway.

Yeah, generations long war through peacemaking and not through continuing the cycle.

And, you know, it broke down into a lot of different pieces.

And, you know, the first piece is that the tribe saw Hiccup's difference as a threat.

And I thought that was particularly interesting.

And like I commented in our first impressions, I related with that quite a bit.

And the fact that he's different is.

Excuse me, is important because that's the way that Christians look to non Christians.

Right.

We are different.

We're supposed to be different.

As I, I think it's.

Newsboys had the, the song from the outside looking in, you know, take me to your leader.

And I appreciate that, that they did that in there.

And I really like how closely it ties to Scripture.

First Corinthians 1:26, 27 says, Brothers and sisters, consider your calling.

Not many were wise from a human perspective.

Not many powerful.

Not many of noble birth.

Instead, God has chosen what is foolish in the world to shame the wise.

And God has chosen what is weak in the world to shame the strong.

And that's what we see with Hiccup in this movie.

He is almost a prophet in as much as he is acting out what.

How Christians are supposed to react in this situation, how.

How they're supposed to be.

I'm not saying Hiccup is a Christian.

Don't get me wrong.

There is no, you know, Christ in here in.

In this movie.

But back when we did Wild Robot, you and I talked about the fact that Du Bois.

Du Bois.

Du Bois, however you say his name, he certainly seems to right with a Christian worldview.

Right.

Hiccups treated it as weak and not quite worthless, but more like a dented penny.

He's still got worth.

He just ain't right in the head.

But, you know, in God's economy, It's obedience that is a measure of success, not faithfulness to tradition.

And it's one of the reasons that I look at the Catholic Church in particular and Orthodox churches, and I look at how they give traditional role, and I really feel like at times it steps over the line of overruling the Bible.

And that makes me uncomfortable.

You know, we're not called to fit the mold of the world.

We're called to live according to the standard of Christ.

This meekness and it looks like weakness to many people who don't have Christ in their hearts.

And First Corinthians 1, 24, 25 says, yet to those who are called both Jews and Greeks, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God, because God's foolishness is wiser than human wisdom, and God's weakness is stronger than human strength.

And that's what we should be grasping on to.

So Hiccup is actually very forward thinking and he's lambasted for it.

He really is throughout the whole movie.

But the thing is, is it doesn't say it in either movie.

It actually shows it a little bit here.

But Hiccup must have dozens of failures.

There's actually in the live action one, I don't remember it in the animated one, but in the live action one, there's a spectacular failure of his.

What was it, the flying bolo thing?

No, that was in the animated one, wasn't it?

But anyway, that's the thing, is he perseveres.

And that's what we have to do as Christians, is we're going to mess up constantly because we're not perfect.

No, many of us are further than others.

But, you know, the point is, is that we're going to fail a lot, and we're going to continue to fail until we can't fail no more.

But we have to learn from those failures.

There's a reason that Christ said that this is not an easy road.

In Matthew 7, 13, 14, he says, enter through the narrow gate, for the gate is wide and the road is broad.

That leads to destruction.

But there are many who go through it.

How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.

And James 1, 2, 3 says, consider it great joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you experience various trials, because you know that the testing of your faith produces endurance.

James.

Even as Hiccup failed, it didn't dampen his enthusiasm.

He figured out what was wrong and he went back and fixed it.

Every failure was a learning experience that prepared him for, okay, Usually the next failure, but eventually for success.

And when the time came to make peace with the dragons, he was ready, because all of his failures allowed him to do that and allowed him, you know, to construct the artificial fin that Toothless used and the mechanism that Hiccup used, you know, to allow Toothless to fly.

And they became symbiotic to each other.

Because Toothless couldn't fly without him.

By necessity, Toothless had to let him ride him.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And, you know, I really appreciated that Hiccup took what he learned in working with Toothless and he studied him.

He.

He.

He almost meditated on the word type of thing, you know, and he used that in the dragon trials and just befuddled everyone else.

And in the end, the Elder chose him to win the dragon trials because he was able to do it in a way that no one had ever done before.

And I'd like to think that the Elder, you know, appreciated this, which is why she named him.

But at the same time, it looked like she had been around for a long time.

And if she was aware of this difference, then why didn't she do anything about it?

Well, he was winning each of the trials.

He just wasn't necessarily winning it the way that.

Yeah.

In the past.

Which is very interesting because you were exactly.

You were talking about learning by failure.

That was really the way all of them were just thrown in there with dragons, and they were supposed to learn by failing.

And it's like, how many of them actually survive that when they're going up against dragons that can kill them and they're just thrown in there with no instruction?

What was.

I think Astrid said, it's not fun unless you get a couple scars.

I've had scars.

They ain't fun.

No, thank you.

So, you know, Hiccup's approach doesn't make him a coward, it makes him a Redeemer.

And James 3:17 says, but the wisdom from above is first pure, then peace, loving, gentle, compliant, full of mercy and good fruits.

Unwavering without pretense.

And that's what we witness.

And, you know, Hiccup's attitude as he works with Toothless.

It's an interesting quote in there when he and Astrid are talking about.

I think it's after Toothless is caught.

And he was like, I should have just killed the dragon.

And she's like, why didn't you?

And he says, I couldn't kill the dragon.

And she was like, why couldn't you?

And it was like he was coming to the point where he was saying, it wasn't that he was not able to kill the dragon, is that he chose not to kill the dragon.

And so she was trying to pull that out of him, that he, he was different because it wasn't that he didn't kill the dragon, it was that he couldn't kill the dragon because of who he was and that he was going to go do craze something crazy and stupid in order to just to save Toothless.

Yeah, the way that Hiccup does this reminds us that we are not called to strength of arms.

We're not even Israel.

You know, when they surrounded Jericho, did they defeat Jericho by storming the gates with swords drawn?

No, they did it by playing trumpets and obeying God.

Zechariah 4.

6 says, so he answered me, this is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel.

Not by strength or by might, but by my spirit, says the Lord of armies.

And we need to remember that, you know, we don't go to work armed to the teeth.

At least most of us don't.

There are people who do.

Yeah, it's their job.

They need to.

Yeah, but we trust in God.

We trust in his spirit to, to set everything right.

And you know, it's not going to be perfect because God promises us trials and we should be rejoicing in those trials just like we saw from James earlier.

But Hiccup's action is what breaks this generations long cycle.

He sees the dragons for what they really are.

They're enslaved to this big, this alpha beast that you see at the end of the movie, which such ferocity and that alpha thing that they're trying to feed and you know, even he eats dragons when it gets irritated.

That's the real enemy.

They just all latch on to the fear and violence and go to it.

You know, that's a really interesting parallel if you think about it, is that as Christians, if we take ourselves as Burke and the dragons as the unsaved world and the big dragon as their bondage to sin, that is, if we look at it in that parallel, it's like we should be, instead of fighting the world, we should be trying to rescue the world from their bondage to sin.

Because that is a very interesting parallel.

But that's kind of.

It sets it up well for that.

Yeah, yeah, that's very nice.

One last quick scripture, Romans 8, 20, 21.

For the creation was subject to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it in the hopes that creation itself will also be set free from the bondage to decay into the glorious freedom of God's children.

And that's what we saw in how to train your dragon, is that the dragons were in bondage.

They were in bondage to this Prince of dragons, you know, or Queen of dragons.

Queen of dragons.

And Hiccup's actions led both of them into a fellowship that was so much more than anything either of them had beforehand.

So I just wanted to very quickly, you know, sum up what this means to all of us.

And, you know, as Christians, we shouldn't be really taking sides in cultural feuds when it is not a scriptural issue.

We shouldn't be like, oh, whatever, I can't remember the name of that church.

Johnstown, or something like that.

Yeah, the one that does all the picketing and yelling.

Yeah.

I haven't heard much of them in a while.

I hope they disbanded.

It's not about yelling loud or hitting hard.

It's not even about winning, because it's not up to us to win.

It's not our strength that's going to win this fight.

The fight's already.

Our victory is not on this side of eternity.

Our victory is on the other side anyway.

Yeah.

And, you know, we're called to listen before we react.

And we're called to discernment before discrimination.

And, you know, this sounds very hippie ish, but my notes say, and to love whenever everyone else demands war.

But that's actually true.

Right.

War should always be a last action.

And for those who follow just war theory, there have been very few situations in history that are so very clearly just war theory as like Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

And we can't always have peace.

But like Paul said in First Corinthians, as best you can live in peace with others.

Right.

And this movie gives us a.

A picture of how.

How that plays out in a fantasy environment.

And I really appreciate the fact that they.

That Du Bois, in writing this, makes it clear that Hiccup was right and that his difference is correction, not mutation.

It's not weakness, it's courage.

So we live in a world where it's very noisy.

And as Christians, as the body of Christ, the church needs to look different.

And that difference can take so many different forms.

You know, all these different denominations and different disagreements on how to interpret different sections of scripture.

It would not exist if God didn't allow it.

And frankly, it strengthens all of us.

As much as I disagree with, you know, progressive Lutheranism positions, I appreciate that, you know, they have studied the scripture and they have come to a conclusion and I have no disillusion that when I get to heaven, I believe that we are going to have a much better understanding of Scripture in our glorified bodies and minds.

And I have no disillusion that I am going to find that I was wrong in many, many things.

But the fact is I was wrong to the glory of God.

And I think that is as long as you are honest to God in your mistakes, I feel like he appreciates that and will correct you eventually.

I know that doesn't make a lot of sense.

I just want to caution people because one of the.

And this might sound like a little bunny trail, but I'm going to come back to you, okay?

One of the things that I have always not liked about the Chronicles of Narnia was the last book, the last battle.

Because one of the things that C.S.

lewis kind of said in that, because it was supposed to be kind of a parallel of end times, was that anybody who followed any God truthfully would be counted as saved in eternity.

And I disagreed with that.

And I feel like we just want to.

I'm not saying that that's what you're saying, but I just want to caution people to not hear that and what you said, because, yes, there are sects of Christianity that preach a false gospel, and we have to be careful.

Yeah, they're not.

They're not Christianity, but they say they are.

And so to outsiders who, look, know, we don't want to just, you know, open this giant umbrella and say, if we made theological mistakes, you know, God's going to accept that anyway.

It's like, no, there is such a thing as heresy.

The apostles were combating it constantly in their letters to the early church.

And so just because we make mistakes that, you know, God forgives our mistakes.

Mistakes, but we also have to repent for our mistakes because they are sin.

And if you're caught in a church who is teaching heresy, I highly recommend that you show some discernment and find a different church.

But, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, when I taught the Comparative Christianity course, I think I mentioned it before.

We started with Evangelical Presbyterianism.

I'm a member of the PCA Church.

And we went from there further and further, you know, out on the.

The dartboard, so to speak.

Another ring further and further from what you might consider the evangelicalism.

And we always went back to.

All right, here's the thing.

Nicene Creed, Apostles Creed.

No, they do not carry the weight of Scripture, but every single line in them is backed up by scripture, solid scripture, indisputable Scripture.

So that's what we used as our basis.

Does this church follow the Nicene Creed or does this church follow the Apostles Creed, then?

If they didn't, then, okay, they're not a Christian church.

You know, we got to the Mormons.

Yeah, Yeah.

I didn't want to open a massive can of worms there.

I just wanted to.

Right, yes, exactly.

I just wanted to clarify what you were saying there because I, you know, it almost came across as, you know, we all make mistakes.

God's going to, you know, figure it all out when we get to eternity.

And that's not necessarily true.

Oh, wouldn't that be nice?

No, no, it wouldn't.

Yeah.

If God will take anyone, then he is not the God of the Bible.

Yeah.

Anyway, sorry, anyone who is washed in the blood of Christ, that we have to go back to the authentic gospel.

Amen.

I highly encourage those of you who are still listening at this point to go check out the theology throwdown that the CPC puts out.

If you haven't ever listened to an episode that it's really interesting, because we do.

In this Christian podcast community, we definitely have a statement of faith that we require everybody who joins the community to adhere to.

But there are differences in doctrine and theology amongst our members.

And so the theology throwdown gives us the opportunity to discuss those in charity and love and, and come to either agreement or kindly disagree on some of those issues.

And so it is a little fun to listen to.

Our last episode.

We talked about regulative versus normative worship principles.

Oh, nice.

And he had never even heard those terms before, so it was a very interesting discussion.

So anyway, just be checking that out because we can be in agreement about the important things and still have disagreements about.

Absolutely.

I wouldn't necessarily call them fringe, but they're, I mean, to some churches they're very, very important, but they're also not gospel centered doctrinal standpoints.

So that we wouldn't say you're going to hell because you believe that you're, you know, a different style of worship or whatever.

But anyway, all that to say, go check that podcast out.

It's really cool because you get to hear some of the other podcasters in the community represented and get to hear us disag in Christian love.

So with that said, we're going to put a cap on this episode.

We haven't actually chosen a movie for August.

We have a few options, I think.

But if you have a particular movie you'd like to hear us review from this summer, please let us know.

And we'd be happy to get that referral.

Absolutely.

Other than that, thank you so much for listening.

I'm E. Franklin.

I'm Tim Martin.

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