1 00:00:01,470 --> 00:00:01,830 We ready? 2 00:00:02,580 --> 00:00:04,019 Let me clear my throat. 3 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:08,250 Hi, and welcome to Business Without Bullshit. 4 00:00:08,250 --> 00:00:11,670 I am Andy Oriana, alongside me as my co-host Simon Walsh. 5 00:00:11,700 --> 00:00:12,300 Hello Andy. 6 00:00:12,630 --> 00:00:15,300 And today we are joined by the fabulous Darren Weber. 7 00:00:15,305 --> 00:00:16,020 How you doing, Darren? 8 00:00:16,020 --> 00:00:17,190 I'm living the dream. 9 00:00:17,195 --> 00:00:18,170 Darren is to be here. 10 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:21,610 Darren is c e o of ttc. 11 00:00:21,850 --> 00:00:33,960 The testing company, an IT services and consulting firm based in New Zealand, specializing in helping big organizations undergo digital transformation at a competitive advantage. 12 00:00:34,260 --> 00:00:40,800 TTC is a global firm with bar branches in America, Australia, Europe, uae, and Asia. 13 00:00:40,980 --> 00:00:42,570 Thanks for coming to the podcast. 14 00:00:42,570 --> 00:00:43,950 It's really, really nice to see you. 15 00:00:43,950 --> 00:00:45,710 So we always like to start with this question. 16 00:00:46,235 --> 00:00:48,004 What is keeping you up at night? 17 00:00:48,214 --> 00:00:49,055 I'll just show you things. 18 00:00:49,055 --> 00:00:54,065 Obviously as startups, we've been here for a year now, so getting a presence in the market. 19 00:00:54,515 --> 00:00:57,635 Obviously London, huge financial services market. 20 00:00:57,695 --> 00:01:00,905 Coming in as a, essentially a startup is, is not easy. 21 00:01:00,905 --> 00:01:03,004 So acquiring new clients, new brands. 22 00:01:03,004 --> 00:01:04,205 So that's, that's tricky. 23 00:01:04,205 --> 00:01:06,455 Lot of work around business development. 24 00:01:06,575 --> 00:01:11,015 Take a step back, just briefly cuz you mentioned financial services being your customer base. 25 00:01:11,015 --> 00:01:12,785 What, what, what is it you do briefly? 26 00:01:12,965 --> 00:01:13,414 We test. 27 00:01:14,195 --> 00:01:18,215 You test software and that's particularly, and we're really good at it and particularly important for fintechs. 28 00:01:18,425 --> 00:01:18,515 Yeah. 29 00:01:18,914 --> 00:01:19,155 Yeah. 30 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:21,515 So obviously your software doesn't work. 31 00:01:21,515 --> 00:01:24,185 The impact to the incline is pretty significant. 32 00:01:24,304 --> 00:01:26,645 I always think anyone who does a startup is insane. 33 00:01:26,795 --> 00:01:36,634 You are a bit more than a startup, you're a successful company, but you have taken the, uh, hospital pass as they say of uh, one Darren, one you guy to the uk and make it all happen. 34 00:01:36,815 --> 00:01:39,005 And I've seen many of us come into the uk. 35 00:01:39,005 --> 00:01:39,845 This is a tough market. 36 00:01:39,935 --> 00:01:40,745 Yeah, it isn't it. 37 00:01:40,755 --> 00:01:41,155 It is. 38 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:41,375 But. 39 00:01:41,740 --> 00:01:43,930 But it's, it's kind of what I've trained for all my life. 40 00:01:43,930 --> 00:01:44,890 I've worked here before. 41 00:01:44,890 --> 00:01:48,710 I've worked in different geographies, Asia, you know, Europe, whatever. 42 00:01:49,710 --> 00:01:51,990 This is a natural place for me to be. 43 00:01:51,990 --> 00:01:52,740 I love London. 44 00:01:52,740 --> 00:01:56,640 I love the, the Chancellor in Excel in probably the hardest market. 45 00:01:57,090 --> 00:02:01,800 So it's kind of like, how good are you and if you're gonna test yourself and as an organization. 46 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:02,010 Yes. 47 00:02:02,010 --> 00:02:06,720 We've been in the US maybe seven or eight years, obviously Australia and New Zealand, we're in Singapore. 48 00:02:06,725 --> 00:02:09,420 We've opened India about nine months ago, so that's growing. 49 00:02:09,690 --> 00:02:12,690 Um, uae, so this was the gap. 50 00:02:13,050 --> 00:02:14,970 So we don't have Europe or uk. 51 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:22,170 You know, I'm sure there was something in the fine print I didn't read, but, um, I'm here and, and, and loving it. 52 00:02:22,170 --> 00:02:26,149 But it's, it's, it is a very, very challenging, do you think more difficult than the us? 53 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:29,519 No, I think US is a pretty tricky market. 54 00:02:29,524 --> 00:02:34,985 I know a lot of Kiwi companies have failed in the US and, and they've succeeded here, and maybe that's, A cultural thing. 55 00:02:34,985 --> 00:02:37,205 Maybe there's something there, I'm not sure. 56 00:02:37,205 --> 00:02:42,815 But, um, but the, the guy that runs the US Chris roll has done an outstanding job for, for six or seven years. 57 00:02:42,815 --> 00:02:45,545 So, and that, that market's just going strengths to strength. 58 00:02:45,545 --> 00:02:48,725 I mean, I've got some massive customers, uh, US National, or is he? 59 00:02:48,725 --> 00:02:49,085 Kiwi? 60 00:02:49,085 --> 00:02:49,805 Kiwi, okay. 61 00:02:49,810 --> 00:02:50,175 Yeah, yeah. 62 00:02:50,175 --> 00:02:50,295 Yeah. 63 00:02:50,660 --> 00:02:59,899 Because cuz often you'll hear sort of foreign companies, particularly Australian, New Zealand companies, will put a US national in, um, to kind of help kind of bridge some of those cultural differences. 64 00:02:59,899 --> 00:03:04,339 So really interesting that your guys are, and I think in certain geographies that's really important. 65 00:03:04,429 --> 00:03:04,670 Yes. 66 00:03:04,670 --> 00:03:09,579 I mean, when we're working, doing work in France, we obviously native speakers, so you've gotta get French people. 67 00:03:09,579 --> 00:03:09,940 Yeah. 68 00:03:10,140 --> 00:03:22,230 In, in, in Singapore, the guy that's running Singapore, he's been in that market for a very long time, so, um, obviously the guy that runs India, he's Indian, so there's certain markets, so thinks that we, the guy that runs, um, Australia is English. 69 00:03:22,350 --> 00:03:34,155 I was about to say, the thing that we share is that Australia and New Zealand and the UK and arguably maybe Canada, It's the few markets that you could send a salesman, cross border, you can send someone, yeah. 70 00:03:34,215 --> 00:03:35,325 A cult, a culture. 71 00:03:35,325 --> 00:03:40,215 Certainly Australia, New Zealand, or uk you know, something like Simon, I'm quite passionate about. 72 00:03:40,395 --> 00:03:46,365 They're, they're, they're very close and it upsets me that there's a lot of UK people are like Australia, what? 73 00:03:46,425 --> 00:04:02,595 Like, or New Zealand, what, you know, and, and, and I mean, It particularly works, it's like forever for whatever differences that sometimes UK or British Australian people may think, whether it's bloody palms or you know, Kiwis may feel, because Kiwis are quite, quite, it's always it's sports related. 74 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:03,015 Always. 75 00:04:03,015 --> 00:04:03,225 Yeah. 76 00:04:03,285 --> 00:04:06,045 But underneath it, we work together incredibly well. 77 00:04:06,045 --> 00:04:06,165 Yeah. 78 00:04:06,195 --> 00:04:15,165 But I think, but I think if you look kind of, you're in New Zealand, Australia here, you certainly in Australia and New Zealand, there've been English people or poms in and out for kind of centuries, and That's right. 79 00:04:15,530 --> 00:04:16,399 Same here. 80 00:04:16,399 --> 00:04:23,780 So I think sort of, you know, to some extent, even though we're all different, there has been kind of a quite a good merging of the three cultures. 81 00:04:23,930 --> 00:04:24,950 I think it's tighter. 82 00:04:25,070 --> 00:04:25,400 Yeah. 83 00:04:25,460 --> 00:04:31,880 I just think it's tighter and it goes back a few hundred years and we've mostly forgiven the English, so we, we are moving on. 84 00:04:33,130 --> 00:04:34,630 Darren, how many people do you have globally? 85 00:04:34,930 --> 00:04:36,070 I think it's 400. 86 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:36,720 Amazing. 87 00:04:36,725 --> 00:04:39,220 So it's, it's grown quite a lot in the last year. 88 00:04:39,220 --> 00:04:43,450 So I think we've, in the last six or seven months, I think India's pushing 50 now. 89 00:04:43,450 --> 00:04:53,680 So that's given it a nudge And, and is the bulk of your hiring for, I guess, Rare tech resource in India or you hiring tech resource in each each of their market that's you operating? 90 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:58,840 Yeah, I mean New Zealand's gone ballistic from, from what I'm seeing with the hiring there. 91 00:04:58,840 --> 00:05:05,380 So that that's obviously, you know, local New Zealand people, um, US is always growing cuz it's just a big market. 92 00:05:05,380 --> 00:05:10,630 And obviously with the India team kicking on supporting those geos then that, that's really been the growth. 93 00:05:10,630 --> 00:05:15,580 But it's engineers, it's it's automation engineers, it's test engineers, it's smart engineering. 94 00:05:16,055 --> 00:05:16,385 Second. 95 00:05:16,385 --> 00:05:19,055 So what we're talking about is a company that comes in and tests software. 96 00:05:19,055 --> 00:05:19,145 Yes. 97 00:05:19,145 --> 00:05:21,305 So software companies, test software. 98 00:05:21,425 --> 00:05:23,465 What do you, what do you mean you're testing software? 99 00:05:24,015 --> 00:05:25,625 Software doesn't work a lot. 100 00:05:25,625 --> 00:05:26,945 There's a whole industry. 101 00:05:26,950 --> 00:05:36,305 There's millions and millions and millions of people who are quality engineers or software engineers exist because soft software doesn't do what it says on the turn. 102 00:05:36,515 --> 00:05:38,405 And particularly when you integrate it with something. 103 00:05:39,219 --> 00:05:42,130 Or multiple integrations with multiple products. 104 00:05:42,159 --> 00:05:43,270 Well then you've gotta keep up. 105 00:05:43,270 --> 00:05:47,919 And then they all, they update and then, yeah, and you've gotta retest all of that. 106 00:05:48,070 --> 00:05:52,659 Or you're taking the use cases and you're going, okay, well this is what you say it's gonna do. 107 00:05:52,659 --> 00:05:55,090 We're gonna test to see whether it, that's what it does. 108 00:05:55,094 --> 00:05:55,990 And often it doesn't. 109 00:05:56,050 --> 00:06:00,280 Do they know it's not doing it cuz they're not getting what they, sometimes there are limitations. 110 00:06:00,280 --> 00:06:04,300 So you within your, if you're a software development company and you can, you build a product. 111 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:07,219 It's got to fit into multiple landscapes. 112 00:06:07,280 --> 00:06:11,120 So all your customers are come, gonna have a different landscape, a different environment. 113 00:06:11,330 --> 00:06:14,270 So plugging that in, you can't always test all those variations. 114 00:06:14,275 --> 00:06:17,960 So it's only when you get into a client environment and plugging it into everything. 115 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:24,350 And you might have, you know, banks will have, for example, uh, they could have four or 5,000 systems. 116 00:06:24,595 --> 00:06:29,425 Asset management firms might have a hundred different applications or systems, even us. 117 00:06:29,425 --> 00:06:37,525 So it's pretty complicated stuff, and you're talking an end to end transaction flow and every single point along that, the data has to be correct. 118 00:06:37,525 --> 00:06:43,195 It has to do the right thing, it has to calculate the right thing, and at the end, the customer experience has to be good. 119 00:06:43,435 --> 00:06:44,125 But hang on a second. 120 00:06:44,125 --> 00:06:45,385 You go in and test it. 121 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:47,370 I mean, a, how do you test it? 122 00:06:47,370 --> 00:06:49,380 And then B, you test it so it doesn't work. 123 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:51,480 And then they go, all right, thanks very much. 124 00:06:51,570 --> 00:06:51,870 Oh yeah. 125 00:06:52,140 --> 00:06:53,710 A lot of our job is, can you fix it? 126 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:54,870 We don't fix it. 127 00:06:55,110 --> 00:06:56,670 Can you just identify what, sorry. 128 00:06:56,670 --> 00:07:07,440 So we, we, we will tell you your baby's ugly and we'll give you some recommendations on where you baby might, it's about time someone did, might look to fix it, but we don't fix code that goes back to a development team. 129 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:09,690 So we'll, we are essentially identifying our issue. 130 00:07:09,690 --> 00:07:10,920 And how are you working this out? 131 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:11,789 Is this automated? 132 00:07:11,789 --> 00:07:14,159 This is a man with a spanner and a hammer. 133 00:07:14,469 --> 00:07:16,690 Uh, it's all, it's all, we automate as much as we can. 134 00:07:16,690 --> 00:07:17,380 That's the future. 135 00:07:17,380 --> 00:07:18,460 It's been that way for 23 years. 136 00:07:18,460 --> 00:07:21,180 So you write a program to software to test software. 137 00:07:21,180 --> 00:07:26,260 You say, oh, you do this, this, and this, and then you write an automated thing to do this, this, and this, and see what software outcome. 138 00:07:26,260 --> 00:07:26,860 Outcome software. 139 00:07:26,865 --> 00:07:27,070 Yep. 140 00:07:27,310 --> 00:07:29,500 And then you highlight auditors. 141 00:07:29,980 --> 00:07:31,810 No, we do assessments. 142 00:07:31,815 --> 00:07:32,950 We don't call them audits. 143 00:07:32,950 --> 00:07:36,610 Soon as you say the word audit, people get pucker up. 144 00:07:36,610 --> 00:07:36,969 Right? 145 00:07:36,969 --> 00:07:37,960 So you don't want that? 146 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:38,260 No. 147 00:07:38,289 --> 00:07:41,820 So we do assessments, which says you might want to look at certain things. 148 00:07:42,615 --> 00:07:45,405 You know, you've got some challenges in this area, you've had some issues. 149 00:07:45,705 --> 00:07:52,995 It's probably, we do a bit of a root cause analysis, impact assessment, whatever, and we'll tell you that's because you haven't tested that part of the system. 150 00:07:52,995 --> 00:07:54,795 It's causing that problem for your customer. 151 00:07:54,795 --> 00:08:01,095 Therefore, we'll go and do it and sort it out, but we won't fix it or go back to the vendor developer, whoever it is, they'll fix it. 152 00:08:01,725 --> 00:08:02,625 So there's a. 153 00:08:03,075 --> 00:08:04,364 Independence between that. 154 00:08:04,364 --> 00:08:06,224 So we're not marking, they're not marking. 155 00:08:06,224 --> 00:08:07,114 They must love you. 156 00:08:07,114 --> 00:08:07,755 These, no, no. 157 00:08:07,755 --> 00:08:10,914 These ccs, they're software developers not tested. 158 00:08:10,914 --> 00:08:12,395 Have you heard about ttc? 159 00:08:12,395 --> 00:08:13,995 The fcs? 160 00:08:15,335 --> 00:08:18,614 But you know, ultimately it's about the end customer experience. 161 00:08:18,614 --> 00:08:22,295 So if you are selling a product or service, To someone in the market. 162 00:08:22,355 --> 00:08:24,425 It needs to work, it needs to be fit for purpose. 163 00:08:24,485 --> 00:08:34,235 And, and these test scripts, you, you write, do they, do they emulate the end-to-end thing or do they just kind of go, okay, well this little test script will test this little bit of it and this little bit will test that bit? 164 00:08:34,235 --> 00:08:34,534 Both. 165 00:08:35,015 --> 00:08:35,044 Okay. 166 00:08:35,044 --> 00:08:35,225 Yeah. 167 00:08:35,230 --> 00:08:43,804 So you have unit tests or system level tests or integration tests or performance tests or, or whatever, so, so they're all, and TDC will do the whole gamut of that. 168 00:08:43,865 --> 00:08:46,925 We don't generally do unit testing, which is the lowest level of testing. 169 00:08:47,170 --> 00:08:49,390 The devs that do that, but we'll do everything else. 170 00:08:49,510 --> 00:09:02,800 But I was just gonna think if, if a banker's got, you know, kind of four or 5,000 different kind of integration points, it must mean that there's a kind of massive kind of responsibility on you guys if you are kind of doing end-to-end testing on something like that. 171 00:09:02,805 --> 00:09:03,170 Yeah. 172 00:09:03,170 --> 00:09:03,569 Yeah. 173 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,410 And, and again, a lot of it is regulatory. 174 00:09:07,065 --> 00:09:13,335 So you'll have, you know, that you need to prove that what you said you've done, you've done, you have to have evidence. 175 00:09:13,335 --> 00:09:15,375 So yeah, it's, it's serious stuff. 176 00:09:15,465 --> 00:09:20,595 Um, and, you know, businesses can get closed down or whatever because, you know, software doesn't work. 177 00:09:20,715 --> 00:09:25,935 But also just thinking about it, like if you are, if you've got your own software to test, you must be developing software. 178 00:09:25,935 --> 00:09:29,900 So you've got to have your own software tested, but then, Test other people's software. 179 00:09:29,900 --> 00:09:33,050 It's kind of almost like this Russian doll of testing, isn't it? 180 00:09:33,230 --> 00:09:34,640 It is a little bit, yeah, yeah, yeah. 181 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,490 But the products we use are best practice. 182 00:09:37,495 --> 00:09:44,930 The sort of top Gardner quadrant software products that are, have, have had installations, you know? 183 00:09:45,260 --> 00:09:46,699 What do you mean the products you use to test? 184 00:09:46,699 --> 00:09:47,900 So, so, so software test. 185 00:09:48,190 --> 00:09:51,100 Tools, but, but that's what they would say about the other products, wouldn't they? 186 00:09:51,100 --> 00:09:56,410 They say, oh, well these products, the software we use is the top grade, you know, class A. 187 00:09:56,470 --> 00:10:06,160 But it's been fairly robustly tested across, well, I think, I think the principle is actually this, is that it's easier to tell if something's wrong than to get it right. 188 00:10:06,790 --> 00:10:14,080 So in essence, if you write a piece of software that's gotta do some stuff, it's easier to write something to check whether it did that. 189 00:10:14,975 --> 00:10:23,855 Then it is the right thing to do that thing just, but, but also the people using the tools or programming the tools of its open source, they do know what they're doing. 190 00:10:24,125 --> 00:10:29,194 And you know, do you find, these days when you look at software, the majority is open source? 191 00:10:29,199 --> 00:10:30,875 Is that, is that where it's heading or not? 192 00:10:30,990 --> 00:10:32,190 It's certainly huge. 193 00:10:32,250 --> 00:10:32,760 Globally. 194 00:10:32,850 --> 00:10:37,770 Open source is massive, but again, proprietary tools, um, certainly have their place. 195 00:10:37,770 --> 00:10:42,450 We have some really strong partnerships with, with vendors that have proprietary tools that are best of breed. 196 00:10:42,450 --> 00:10:43,980 They're, they're absolutely brilliant. 197 00:10:44,190 --> 00:10:46,290 Some companies want open source tools. 198 00:10:46,560 --> 00:10:47,580 It's just a different model. 199 00:10:49,130 --> 00:10:51,690 Business Without Bullshit is brought to you by Ari Clark. 200 00:10:52,250 --> 00:10:55,440 Straight Talking Financial and legal advice since 1935. 201 00:10:55,890 --> 00:10:58,350 You can find us@ariclark.com. 202 00:11:01,230 --> 00:11:04,080 What do you think is bullshit in business? 203 00:11:04,380 --> 00:11:05,610 There's a few things, I guess. 204 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:12,180 Um, one of the things that I've sort of witnessed over my career is people occupying. 205 00:11:12,795 --> 00:11:19,545 A seat when maybe someone much more capable could be doing that role and they hang on for dear life. 206 00:11:20,204 --> 00:11:25,694 And, um, you know, you meet with them and you're kind of thinking, yeah, there's a, there's a village missing an idiot here somewhere. 207 00:11:26,114 --> 00:11:28,155 How do we try and work with this guy knowing that. 208 00:11:28,614 --> 00:11:31,555 They're not interested in moving the dial forward. 209 00:11:31,555 --> 00:11:38,194 So those characters in, in influential roles who really just keep the desk occupied. 210 00:11:38,199 --> 00:11:39,925 I, I find that quite sad. 211 00:11:39,984 --> 00:11:41,724 I'm not sure I understand you fully. 212 00:11:41,755 --> 00:11:41,964 Yeah. 213 00:11:41,964 --> 00:11:43,135 So say it a different way. 214 00:11:43,314 --> 00:11:50,020 So, Meeting with a senior person that has no interest in doing interesting stuff for their organization. 215 00:11:50,020 --> 00:11:51,220 They're literally no vision. 216 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,320 No vision, literally there to eat their lunch. 217 00:11:53,530 --> 00:11:55,660 They're not gonna move the improve things. 218 00:11:55,660 --> 00:12:04,840 They've done the same role for the X period of time and, and it probably hurts your organization ultimately is, do you find that something you see in big businesses more? 219 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:05,980 Because I mean, yes. 220 00:12:06,130 --> 00:12:06,430 Yeah. 221 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:06,840 A hundred. 222 00:12:07,505 --> 00:12:10,925 In large organizations where you've got people that are just, just sort of sitting there. 223 00:12:10,925 --> 00:12:17,464 So I guess in your line of work, yeah, you, you, you are kind of coming across executives in certain organizations who are technically your clients. 224 00:12:17,464 --> 00:12:26,194 You're trying to help them do a better job or their software do a better job and they've just got no interest in actually it do doing anything better. 225 00:12:26,344 --> 00:12:27,844 Bigger companies, you get the greasy. 226 00:12:28,420 --> 00:12:29,060 And the gre. 227 00:12:29,229 --> 00:12:32,740 I know it cuz I've never worked in a big company, but people come and work here from big companies. 228 00:12:32,740 --> 00:12:36,849 I find it really weird how they act cuz the greasy pole is you have to promote yourself. 229 00:12:36,910 --> 00:12:40,120 You have to play a political game, you have to be in the right place at the right time. 230 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:43,300 You have to know chat two and all of that shit to get up the pole. 231 00:12:43,510 --> 00:12:46,569 And then that's the only way of getting up the pole of these big companies. 232 00:12:46,569 --> 00:12:54,430 So the fucking assholes rise up the pole and that's got nothing to do with the responsibility that you should put someone at the top with the fucking vision. 233 00:12:54,930 --> 00:12:59,110 Who's brilliant with people, basically a brilliant, you know, team communicator. 234 00:12:59,550 --> 00:13:01,170 You know, I think I, I agree. 235 00:13:02,610 --> 00:13:05,790 This is where we're gonna ask you a list of questions to get to know you a little better. 236 00:13:05,790 --> 00:13:10,110 Darren, get to know the inner Darren, you have five to 10 seconds per question. 237 00:13:10,110 --> 00:13:15,660 Yeah, no dicking about, no asking questions and that's, I'm basically pointing at myself cuz it's really hard not to. 238 00:13:15,710 --> 00:13:16,910 He did point at me, but hey. 239 00:13:16,910 --> 00:13:17,310 Okay. 240 00:13:17,340 --> 00:13:18,210 Dq the music. 241 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,930 Um, Simon, what was your first job, Darren? 242 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:27,520 Uh, first real job was a bank teller, so that was quite interesting. 243 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,160 But I've had other jobs, seasonal work and things like that. 244 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:32,740 So Handling, no, stop asking questions. 245 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:33,790 What's your worst job? 246 00:13:34,780 --> 00:13:35,140 Garlic. 247 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:38,430 Picker, I'm reconciling bank teller with garlic picker. 248 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:40,140 Well, that, that was a seasonal job. 249 00:13:40,199 --> 00:13:40,560 Okay. 250 00:13:40,560 --> 00:13:45,750 You know, um, the BA weren't paying you enough SW hands or something like No, you stink. 251 00:13:45,810 --> 00:13:46,050 Yeah. 252 00:13:46,110 --> 00:13:46,829 Essentially. 253 00:13:46,829 --> 00:13:49,290 And you can only hang around with other garlic pickers. 254 00:13:49,805 --> 00:13:53,939 So, and I've never thought about garlic pickers. 255 00:13:53,969 --> 00:13:56,280 You can't, you can't go to the park. 256 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:58,240 If you go to the park, when you pick, you've got a corner. 257 00:13:58,800 --> 00:13:59,010 Yeah. 258 00:13:59,100 --> 00:13:59,280 Yeah. 259 00:13:59,280 --> 00:13:59,820 Are they soft? 260 00:13:59,910 --> 00:14:01,410 They look just like you, but 'em in the shop. 261 00:14:01,470 --> 00:14:01,830 What is it? 262 00:14:01,830 --> 00:14:02,250 A tree. 263 00:14:02,250 --> 00:14:02,760 Where's garlic? 264 00:14:02,870 --> 00:14:03,551 The roof from the ground. 265 00:14:03,556 --> 00:14:05,910 You got, you've got to bend over all day. 266 00:14:05,910 --> 00:14:06,780 It's, it's back break. 267 00:14:06,930 --> 00:14:07,380 Fuck it. 268 00:14:07,380 --> 00:14:07,500 Yeah. 269 00:14:07,500 --> 00:14:12,630 And you're covered in dirt and, and no one likes you a favorite subject at school history. 270 00:14:13,110 --> 00:14:14,850 I really enjoy looking back at stuff. 271 00:14:15,510 --> 00:14:17,190 What's your special skill? 272 00:14:17,700 --> 00:14:18,720 Yeah, it's an interesting one. 273 00:14:19,150 --> 00:14:20,250 Probably hiding my special skill. 274 00:14:20,730 --> 00:14:21,870 Um oh. 275 00:14:22,365 --> 00:14:35,505 I, I, I, I, I see patterns and I like architecture and I like strategy and, and I like joining the dots and, and sort of working out what's broken in the system and trying to make it better. 276 00:14:36,165 --> 00:14:37,965 What did you want to be when you grew up? 277 00:14:38,115 --> 00:14:42,435 Um, all black, which I think a lot of Kiwi kids want to be, that is a rugby player. 278 00:14:42,435 --> 00:14:44,325 For those of audience. 279 00:14:44,325 --> 00:14:45,555 Did you play rugby at school? 280 00:14:45,615 --> 00:14:46,095 I did. 281 00:14:46,095 --> 00:14:47,025 I did for many years. 282 00:14:47,025 --> 00:14:48,075 Played in Japan. 283 00:14:48,075 --> 00:14:51,785 Played, uh, They're all blacks, man. 284 00:14:51,985 --> 00:14:52,545 Butas. 285 00:14:52,715 --> 00:14:54,635 What did your parents want you to be when you grew up? 286 00:14:55,295 --> 00:14:59,885 I, I, you know, the old story, happy, well adjusted type roles and all the rest of it. 287 00:14:59,975 --> 00:15:06,245 And you know, I made a sort of flippant column comment about maybe making enough money to look after them in their retirement. 288 00:15:06,485 --> 00:15:08,705 What's your go-to karaoke song? 289 00:15:08,705 --> 00:15:10,925 So, generally I go to the bar. 290 00:15:12,745 --> 00:15:14,966 You run away from a karaoke episode, that's not a song. 291 00:15:15,055 --> 00:15:19,015 It'll be, it'll be, it'll be, um, I don't know, Bob Seger or something. 292 00:15:19,015 --> 00:15:23,845 That's easy enough to sing in a, in a really crappy, kind, karaoke way. 293 00:15:24,265 --> 00:15:24,565 Yeah. 294 00:15:24,955 --> 00:15:25,765 Born question. 295 00:15:25,765 --> 00:15:28,885 Even though he is not present, I'm now worrying he's still in the building office. 296 00:15:28,890 --> 00:15:31,449 Dogs business or bullshit. 297 00:15:31,455 --> 00:15:33,120 So mostly bullshit. 298 00:15:33,330 --> 00:15:33,420 Mm-hmm. 299 00:15:33,449 --> 00:15:39,120 But I've certainly seen not when you have a dogs on mass in the office, I think that gets quite chaotic. 300 00:15:39,125 --> 00:15:39,689 I seen it. 301 00:15:39,689 --> 00:15:40,130 No, that's terrible. 302 00:15:40,130 --> 00:15:41,290 One, but one or two. 303 00:15:41,610 --> 00:15:43,740 I think it, it, it just changed the dynamic. 304 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:44,910 Dynamic of the office. 305 00:15:44,939 --> 00:15:46,260 Have you ever been fired? 306 00:15:46,710 --> 00:15:48,510 I think I've been fired. 307 00:15:48,540 --> 00:15:49,470 Cherry picking. 308 00:15:49,775 --> 00:15:50,345 Hang on. 309 00:15:50,584 --> 00:15:52,415 So, garlic picking, cherry picking. 310 00:15:52,805 --> 00:15:53,855 What do you think? 311 00:15:53,855 --> 00:15:54,454 You think? 312 00:15:54,515 --> 00:15:57,425 Well, it could have been a mutual exit. 313 00:15:57,425 --> 00:16:00,635 It was a, it was a cherry picking Standoff. 314 00:16:00,635 --> 00:16:00,785 Yeah. 315 00:16:00,785 --> 00:16:07,235 I think we were throwing and eating more cherries and we were picking, and I think, I think you can tell when the foreman frow at you in a certain way. 316 00:16:07,324 --> 00:16:08,655 Maybe you, there's some fucking cherry. 317 00:16:09,665 --> 00:16:17,555 I mean, seriously, I, you know, that's like, I've gone picking, I mean, you've gotta really be fat fuck to go, you know, to to eat more than your film. 318 00:16:17,555 --> 00:16:17,975 Yeah. 319 00:16:18,035 --> 00:16:19,574 You know, because you're certain. 320 00:16:19,775 --> 00:16:20,915 Eating the garlic, were you? 321 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,645 No, the garlic was, was and, and don't to this day. 322 00:16:23,735 --> 00:16:23,944 Yeah. 323 00:16:24,245 --> 00:16:25,385 What's your vice? 324 00:16:25,475 --> 00:16:26,255 It's a tricky one. 325 00:16:26,735 --> 00:16:27,694 Probably English pubs. 326 00:16:28,415 --> 00:16:30,064 I really like English pubs. 327 00:16:30,155 --> 00:16:31,204 I like the vibe. 328 00:16:31,209 --> 00:16:33,515 I like I I like everything about them. 329 00:16:33,694 --> 00:16:34,834 I think they're quite addictive. 330 00:16:35,545 --> 00:16:41,185 And, and you know, it's the one thing Australian Kiwi say they miss to me about the uk. 331 00:16:41,185 --> 00:16:42,925 They say the only thing I meant, oh, I miss the pubs. 332 00:16:42,930 --> 00:16:44,155 The pubs are fantastic. 333 00:16:47,995 --> 00:16:53,444 Um, this is gonna give you 30 seconds to pinch your company, your podcast, your book, whatever you like, off you go. 334 00:16:54,444 --> 00:16:54,685 Right? 335 00:16:54,685 --> 00:16:58,075 So ttc, the testing consultancy is software testing company. 336 00:16:58,075 --> 00:17:02,444 So essentially, We do one thing really well, which is test software. 337 00:17:02,865 --> 00:17:08,444 So, uh, key part of our strategy is to automate where possible automate everyth. 338 00:17:09,224 --> 00:17:10,484 So I think that's, that's key. 339 00:17:10,484 --> 00:17:13,785 We do that extremely well, company of about 400 people. 340 00:17:13,785 --> 00:17:18,665 So I think most of, uh, those maybe 80, 90% are engineers. 341 00:17:18,670 --> 00:17:27,765 So we are, we're essentially an engineering company and, uh, I, I think one of the things we do really well is we fit into your company's culture. 342 00:17:27,770 --> 00:17:35,985 So I think we try really hard to fit in, um, work within the boundaries of, of, of the culture that, that, that, you know, companies, uh, that we're dealing. 343 00:17:36,629 --> 00:17:38,639 You know, have, and I think that's really important. 344 00:17:38,639 --> 00:17:46,919 That allows us to probably have a bit more of an intimate relationship with organizations, get under the covers, uh, and, and, and that way we add more value. 345 00:17:46,919 --> 00:17:52,919 So we're not just really selling bodies, we're sort of selling solutions and, and trying to get their attention around. 346 00:17:54,325 --> 00:17:58,945 Adding sort of innovative solutions to, to problems that they've probably had for a long time. 347 00:17:59,875 --> 00:18:00,445 So that's it. 348 00:18:00,775 --> 00:18:01,115 Thank you. 349 00:18:01,120 --> 00:18:01,645 You have it. 350 00:18:01,765 --> 00:18:06,325 Uh, that was this week's episode of Business Without Bullshit, and we'll be back with b w extra on Thursday. 351 00:18:06,330 --> 00:18:07,045 Thank you, Simon. 352 00:18:07,045 --> 00:18:07,735 Thank you too. 353 00:18:07,740 --> 00:18:08,155 Thank you. 354 00:18:08,155 --> 00:18:09,115 You Darren, Andrew. 355 00:18:09,115 --> 00:18:09,755 Thank you Darren. 356 00:18:09,895 --> 00:18:11,095 Uh, it's been a pleasure. 357 00:18:11,095 --> 00:18:12,355 Until then, it's chow. 358 00:18:12,415 --> 00:18:13,255 Wonderful experience. 359 00:18:13,255 --> 00:18:13,615 Thank you.