Hello, and welcome to Home to Her, the podcast that's dedicated to reclaiming the lost and stolen wisdom of the sacred feminine. I'm your host, Liz Kelly, and on each episode, we explore her stories and myths, her spiritual principles, and most importantly, what this wisdom has to offer us right now. Thanks for being here. Let's get started. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Hey everybody, this is Liz joining you as usual from central Virginia and the unceded lands of the Monacan Nation, and I am so glad that you are here today. And as always, if you want to know whose lands you might be residing on, be sure to check out the map at native land. ca. I will put that in the show notes. And if you are interested in learning more about the sacred feminine, of course, there's all kinds of ways you can do that. I've got Four and a half years worth of episodes of really cool people that you can refer to, but if you want to learn from me, you can check out my award winning book, Home to Her, Walking the Transformative Path of the Sacred Feminine. It's available wherever you buy your books, and very exciting news, it is now out on Audible! I recorded it earlier this year, and it just came out recently, so if you prefer to listen to your books, you can do that. I think it'll be on Spotify soon too, like wherever you can listen to your audiobooks, so yeah. Check that out if you're interested in that and you can check out classes available via the home to her Academy, I have a class coming up this fall sacred conversations with land It's a three day retreat At hastia magic retreat center near mount shasta in california with three weeks of integration afterwards online Did this in april and it was Just phenomenal. It was so great. So we're doing it again in September. So you can check that out at hometoherecademy. com. You can follow me on social at Home to Her on Facebook and Instagram. And you can check out articles and all the past podcast episodes at hometoher. com. If you can't remember all that, not to worry. I will put it in the show notes. And if you're a regular listener, I would really appreciate it if you would consider leaving a review of this show wherever you access it. It's super helpful, helps other people find it. And then lastly, if you have thoughts and comments, suggestions, feedback, whatever reach out to me. I love hearing from you, and social is always a really good way to do that, but you can do email as well. Okay, that's it. That's my spiel. So, I've been patiently waiting for the right timing to have my most recent guest on the show with me. I don't know if I guess it's patiently. I've been persistent, as she pointed out to me. And I'm so excited that we're actually doing this today. I joined her on her Journey to the Goddess TV show a while back, and it was really fun to share my story with her and her viewers, but also just became immediately clear that we have a lot of overlap in our sacred feminine journeys. So I'm just really looking forward to turning the tables and having her tell us all about her journey and me too. Cause there's some I know, and there's a lot that I don't. So let me go ahead and introduce you to her. Dr. Annalisa Derr is a goddess educator, sacred feminine embodiment teacher, and ritual theater creatrix. She completed her doctorate in mythological studies with emphasis in depth psychology from Pacifica Graduate Institute, and she holds a BA in theater with specialized training in masked and physical theater from international master teachers in Italy and India and New York City. Annalisa currently has a book under contract with Inner Traditions, Bear and Company, and her work explores the impact that negative cultural menstrual myths have on women. Annalisa offers an affirming alternative in the form of an ancient myth, the Descent of Inanna, which has been really present for me lately, which she revisions as a sacred menstrual narrative and a ritual rite of passage. I can't wait to talk about this. Seeking embodied approaches to her research, Annalisa developed an ongoing site specific, goddess centered, menstrual art performance series called She Bleeds the World Into Existence. And she has performed these original and one time only performances in Italy, Greece, and California. Annalisa also hosts the Journey to the Goddess TV, a platform designed to enrich the lives of everyday women with interviews and keynote presentations by experts in goddess scholarship and spirituality. And she also offers sacred feminine pilgrimage tours, embodiment workshops, and retreats. And last but not least, this is a lot, she is also an aspiring flamenco dancer and italophile. I hope I said that right, OK. That means she's into Italian culture, I think. And a pilgrimess. And she is joining us today from the Seattle, Washington area. Annalisa, yay! We're finally doing it. This is so great.

Oh my goodness. Thank you for having me. Sorry to make you read all of that. That was a mouthful.

It's so impressive. Like, oh my God, we could just unpack your bio for the whole episode and we'd be good to go. But yeah, it's amazing.

So happy to be here and that we finally set a date and are making it happen.

Yes, me too. Me too. Well listeners know if they listen regularly, I always like to start with hearing about people's spiritual backgrounds and you know, what that was like for you growing up and what was useful, if anything what you had to let go of. So I'd love to start there if that's okay with you.

Yeah, absolutely. So I was baptized Lutheran, but my mom, for whatever reason, that wasn't kind of satisfying for her. So we always shopped churches and she's a singer. And so I think the kind of devotional singing aspect of the Christian religion is what really kind of hooked her all to say that that's kind of my most Maybe potent and happy memories from kind of this non denominational Christian faith that I then grew up in. And I guess, you know, I asked her why I never went to Sunday school, like the other kids. And she said that you know, I'd gone a few times, but I complained that they would always talk about the devil and it scared me. So I asked if I could like be in the regular service with her, which was great because there was just a lot of singing to Jesus, you know, just like love for the divine. So I think that's what I carry with me from my youth, even though at some point I started to question like, I don't know about, you know, some of the tenets of Christianity, or I don't know about the way that it gets politicized in today's world. Like, that didn't resonate with me. So I eventually moved away. But the, the kind of Bakhti singing devotional aspect is what is still with me today.

I love that you referenced bhakti, devotional singing, and the reference to, yeah, I totally feel that. I grew up Baptist. And yeah, I think the songs were, you know, the, one of the only things that I would, I still have nostalgia about sometimes. That's, that's a cool connection that you just made for me. Yeah.

Right. So it's like when, then when I saw It was introduced to Hinduism and you know, like Krishna Das and that kind of devotional bhakti style music of, you know, worshiping the divine through song. There was just this transfer of feeling like I was like, Oh, it's the same thing, just a different name of the deity that you're singing to and loving on. And so. I don't know. I really love that that's kind of like a non denominational thing. That's a cross cultural thing that you can find in so many different traditions to help us maybe, I don't know, connect with one another or empathize with one another's spiritual beliefs.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Well, the other question that I usually ask guests in the beginning too, is I love to hear how the Sacred Feminine came into your world, like how did you, was there a particular moment when you became aware of her and what was that, what was that like for you?

Yeah, for me it, it's the journey. So yes, there was a moment and it also kind of was like an extended moment, so I I'd like to say that my journey to the goddess really began when I went with a theater group, a New York City based theater group to India. And we were training in classical Indian dance theater. So like Kathakali, which is a South Indian male dance form is like reported to go back to Like 2000 years, maybe it's old, like some of this dance theater may have been contemporary with ancient Greek theater. I get really excited when I think about the possibility that they were performing at the same time, because it's like living history in that way. It's traveled down to us. So anyway, so when I was there you know, training in these different art forms. And I was confronted with Hindu goddesses, well, their whole pantheon, their whole belief system. But that was the first time that I encountered the divine and feminine form. And we were dancing, you know, the feminine as well. I mean, everything. So I, there was a part of experiencing it in the body too, and then learning about the cultural belief system. And then when you're there immersed in it, like my experience was, the very way of life is divine feminine in the Hindu culture. And so I had this moment where I was just kind of experiencing this, you know, and just, it was so different and so beautiful and potent and powerful. And I was on a beach reading this book, so I had kind of, like, already started to think about, other iterations of the Divine Feminine outside. I was already kind of curious, but I just remember sitting on this beach after this intensive, and I was reading this book by Rudolf Steiner, and it was about Isis, Mary, and Sophia. And I was just really struck with like, you know, where, where is the missing Divine Feminine in our culture? Like in the culture that I was raised in. Like it's, she's clearly here and she's so potent and she's so powerful in the Hindu tradition. But, and I feel like she must have been somewhere in the Christian tradition, but she's gone or she's missing. And I need to find her. It was just like, boom, like that was the beginning. That was like, I heard the call. If we're going to go into the hero's journey and a template and I internalized it, and then that was the beginning of the journey, the adventure. So that was the pivotal moment for me.

You know, as you're articulating that, I'm wondering, because I, I sort of had that question too, and I'm wondering if there's a, I'm thinking about it from like a Protestant background, right, because I really feel like Catholicism, when I, when I've had many people on the show who've been raised as Catholic, and their first experience of the Divine Feminine is always Mary. Like, you know, Oh, my grandmother prayed to Mary every day, or, you know, I would go to church and didn't mean anything to me, but there was a statue of Mary outside the church. And I just felt held by her. And those of us who are raised as Protestant, it's like, I don't know enough about the history of Protestantism to know if that was, you know, Really deliberate, like, erasure of the feminine, but boy, they did a bang up job of it, like, just gone, you know? So, I'm almost, I'm just wondering, now, now I have, like, just a curiosity about, like, the electricity of finding the divine feminine, and if that resonates, especially for people who are raised as Protestants in different ways, because we were so starved of it, deprived of it.

Right. No, I love that you bring that up. And I bring that up to people too. Like now that I've been spending a lot of time in Greece and in the Greek Orthodox religion, also Mary is very important. And so are there are saints, they're male and female saints, right? So there is this sense that like the divine feminine is still kind of present and those versions of Christianity, even though she's been kind of demoted, right. Be divinized in a way. But yeah, I also grew up. In this non denominational kind of Protestant lineage where she's nowhere. She's nowhere. I didn't know, I hardly knew who Mary Magdalene was, you know? So, and she was, she's also been very essential on the journey after that point in India. So yeah, so it's really interesting having these conversations with people who grew up Catholic or Greek Orthodox, because I'm like, you have to understand like for us, there is no divine feminine. It's just Jesus.

I've had that conversation with Hindu folks as well. I'm like, you don't understand. Like you're so insular in that spiritual experience. Like, and you think that that's the only thing because that's sort of what is taught, right? Like it is your, that is the only path to the divine. So yeah, totally.

Yes. Yes.

Yeah. Well, and you mentioned Mary Magdalene too, I mean, as you said that I just had a flash of being in Italy when I was 19, I did a study trip in college, and we were with lots of friends, but was looking at the, there's a statue of Mary Magdalene in, I think it's in Florence she looks really haggard, and if you named the artist, I'd probably know who it was, you know, somebody famous. I'm like, I just want to throw out Italian names, but I'm going to get it wrong. I remember looking at that and I'm like, who is that? And my friend, whose father was a fundamentalist pastor. She said, Oh, that's Mary Magdalene. She's a prostitute.

Yeah.

Right. Right. So even like if we did get something of the feminine, it's like, she's, you know, she's, yeah. She's. Thanks. Down the ladder.

Exactly. She's just that lowly, you know, woman there on the street selling herself.

Yeah, totally. Oh my God.

That's can I, I want to share too, that that's kind of my original experience of Mary Magdalene too. I also did a study abroad in Italy when I was. And my friend took me to some famous church where there's a lot of, I think, whatever famous Italian Renaissance paintings, and there was an image of Mary Magdalene up and I took that picture, but I didn't know who it was. I just thought it was a cool picture. So then years later, like at least 10 years later, when I start my Mary Magdalene journey, I was like, huh. I need to go back and look and so and it was her it's Mary Magdalene, but it was like 10 years of me not knowing like really drawn into that photo and not or that image and have to take the photo, but not know why it was so potent for me, you know, and then make the connection years later that that's what I think is really cool about the goddess journey is I have so many examples of that where I was like she was talking to me along the way like just pressing me until I was ready to recognize her

Yes. I've had, yes, very, very similar experience, right? Yeah. Well, and since we're talking about Mary Magdalene, you say more about your relationship with her and how that's kind of informed your, at least

part of your

journey? Yeah.

Absolutely. You know, and I recognize that so many of us are called to Mary Magdalene. I think that she's really, I mean, she's definitely part of the resurgence of the divine feminine for our times, especially for women like us who are coming from the Christian lineage and like searching, right? So what happened was, After I returned to New York City, where I was living at the time, and I was really just very sincere in my search. I was like, help me find this divine feminine, help me figure out this lost piece. And so I was in meditation one day and and I just, I had already, I had started reading books about her. So I think she was already in my field. And so I just, but I this presence just kind of rise up and just kind of wrap around me. And I knew It was her and I just had this knowing that she was going to be my guide on this journey to find the missing divine feminine. So I became completely obsessed with her completely like many of us are and and then I ended up going on a researching the her sites are sacred sites in France. And I took myself on a sacred pilgrimage to her sites. And, you know, And I did, I did find what I found on that journey was I was, I was looking to her to model to me what it means to be a woman through the eyes of this sacred feminine. And I found at the end of the journey. Potent realization that what I'm really looking for is not her, but me, like, my own divinity, right? And my own sacred feminine divinity. And so that was a really important step on the journey as well. And I think that she's just been my guide and my muse on each step of like inner realization. And the fact that like we have all these goddesses and these deities and these myth models, we'll call them outside of us. And at least for me, it's like, I thought that I was seeking them, but really I was seeking me. They're all just tools to help me know myself better. Tools is not a great word, but you know, models, figures, images. And then it was really, I feel very strongly. It was her that led me to graduate school. I always say it was her Shakti, her life force that took me to Pacifica. And it was really for the sole purpose again of learning every single thing I could about her because there's just, we know so little of the actual historical evidence, it's such little information. And so I was hoping graduate school might, give me inroads to find, you know, the stuff that's hard to find for the lay person, but it actually, it ended up opening up this whole other world for me of the divine feminine. So yeah, you know, and I guess this last piece that I'll say about it is that I was on this three year trajectory with her had intended to write my dissertation on her. And as I was like, but I had this thing with the menstrual piece coming up, which I can talk about more later, but she was like, you asked like your whole being has asked me, what does it mean to be a woman outside of patriarchal enculturation? Like that has been your journey to discover what it is and if it's possible to even discover what that is and how would you do that? I'm taking you on a journey through the menstrual mysteries. And you have to leave me in order to like, this is she didn't say this per se, but this was what I understood is she wanted me to go deeper into the embodied experience of being a woman and Inanna, she kind of passed the torch and gave me over to Inanna and she was like, she's the one that's going to take you there. So, on the one hand, Inanna's like my guide and my, my muse, and she's, yeah. She's just the one that's teaching me how to find the inner me.

I, I'm so excited to talk about this. I love inanna, so much. I don't know if you can see, I have the teeniest, tiniest 8 point star necklace that I'm You do! Yes, and I've, I've just, I got it fairly recently and I've just, really need to have it on right now. But I am, I've been really excited to talk to you about this because and I think we talked about Inanna when I was, joined you. I feel like we did. And just, my fascination with her and how I feel like she's such a powerful example of paradox and holding all of it, which is what we need right now in the divine, like, as opposed to this binary of like good and evil, like, no, she is like, she is vengeful and she's also compassionate which I just love about her. And it also makes her very relatable, like, right, to as, as a human. But what I don't know and what I'm super interested to hear you talk about is like how you see this coinciding with what you're calling menstrual mysteries. And I think for a lot of listeners, they might even be like, what, what do you mean? Like, what are you, what are you talking about? You know, cause there's, there's still a very medicalized idea about menstrual mysteries. menstruation. I mean, we just bleed every month and it's so we can have babies or not, right? So I would love to just hear you talk more about that.

Yeah, God, there's like so much to unpack, especially because the journey continues to unfold for me. Which is good. That's how the journey should be. I mean, it's not like it should be like, I figured it out at the end. So yeah, so initially what happened was, is I had, when I read the Inanna myth in full for the first time, I just was seeing it as a metaphor for the psychological and the somatic experiences of menstruation. And so it was like every single character in the myth was like had its, what I want to say complimentary in the, in the physical body and also the psychological, there's like the psychological piece as well. So I just kind of like just wrote that out. I could just see how that was so and, and, but there was this deeper piece that I was trying to discover beyond just having this vision, which was like, okay, like, why, like, Do I feel ashamed of menstruating? Like, what is that? You know, why do I feel ashamed of being a woman? Right. So it kind of, it, and it's, of course it's nonlinear because it's the goddess path. So it's like, I try to like talk about it and like the linear way in which I've gone on the journey, but I'm like, that's just not going to work. So so I started going back in history. I was like, there's, I was like, there's no way that menstruation has always been stigmatized. It's just not possible. So through my research, I developed this kind of inquiry, like, okay, so there is evidence that menstruation was seen as a sacred power as women's sacred power in the pre patriarchal old Europe. So that's like pre civilization. Okay, and then there's a point where it becomes stigmatized. So I tracked that and I think it was around the time of what we call the civilizations when patriarchy started and the marginalization of women, and the legal control of our reproductive rights. Okay. Procreative bodies and the philosophical mythological control of our procreative power as well. And basically the power, the life giving power of birth, like, let me go back and say this. So Maria Gimbutas was an archaeo mythologist, and she put forth this idea, right, that there was a great goddess worshipping society in old Europe. And they worshipped a great goddess that represented the powers of creation, preservation, dissolution, and rebirth. Okay, and this is what she believed that they worshiped. And this is also common and a lot of other mythological tradition. So it's not, you know, just what she thinks they believed. And so, in my view, menstruation represented the power of transformation between death and rebirth. Right. So there's this psychological component that's really important for us to, to, to see that our bodies are actually. manifestations of these sacred powers rather than feeling like it's just this curse or inconvenience that we have to live with in the modern world. So there's a lot to unpack here. So I want to, I don't want to get too out of bounds. So the idea is it was, it was revered at one point, it became stigmatized and as like, as something that was actually either a problem medically or a problem philosophically, like basically that menstruation that it was an existential threat to life, because in patriarchal societies, it's like women's duties to prepare to bear men's children and menstruation is both important for that, but it also prevents it also presents an obstacle because every time it's present, that means a woman's not pregnant with a man's baby. So that's 1 of the reasons. And then the other reason was philosophically or mythologically, philosophically, religiously at this time, it developed to be something that could actually like I want to say infect the divine realm. It could, it was, it was like a contagion, a religious contagion that could actually bring chaos to the divine world, which would bring chaos to the, to the human world. Okay. So what may have started as the sacred Power in which women would ritualize it in the red tent. We've probably, many of us have heard about red tents. So it's most likely that women created this sacred space for ourselves to bleed together, take care of one another be in the final stages of pregnancy and birth and post birth together, and really take care of one another in this sacred space to then that devolved into a tradition in which women were, were secluded because they were seen as dangerous during that time. Okay. So that's kind of the past. And then when we bring it up to the present, where we're in a situation where we've kind of desacralized nature altogether, including our bodies and the menstrual cycle and the menstrual cycle is now seen kind of through the lens of capitalist capitalism. Production model, like menstruation, like you said, is, is we have very good medical understandings of it now, but it's just, we're even at a point where it's like the menstrual suppression movement is being championed as what most women should do. And what I'm saying is that I actually think that menstruation, not only is it a sacred power, but that power helps us know ourselves better. It helps us live more powerfully in the world. You can, you can look at it purely through the lens of biology, or you can look at it more kind of figuratively, like how do I, how do I harness the power of death, transformation and rebirth through my creative projects or in my relationships with people or how I'm reinventing myself. So there's many different levels in which we can look at those powers as sacred and important. And the menstrual cycle is actually one of those places that is actual physical manifestation of those powers.

Does that make sense? Yes. I mean, it makes total sense. I was thinking about, I had Alexandra Pope and Shawnee Hugo Wurlitzer on the show. I think 2023, I think it was 2023. And I was also thinking about, like, to your point of, Like, if we rethink it in that way, then living cyclically is actually, there's a tremendous amount of power in that. If we look at it from more of like a westernized capitalist model, you're like, oh no, we've got to slow down if we lived in that way, right? Or if we honored that death part or, right? Because there's like a peak point in the cycle and then you come down and then like, there's a whole thing, right? But if you, if you honored, the cyclicity of it and what actually might happen. And you know what I mean? Like, efficiency and also sustainability, right? Like you aren't burning out and you are maximizing natural cycles, which then teaches you about the natural cycles of the rest of the world too. I mean, I don't know. It makes a lot of sense to me.

Yes, yes, there's so many layers to it because there's the personal, there's the collective, there's the ecological, there's the social, so there's so many ways that, yes, we can relate what's happening inside of our body to everything that's happening outside of our body, and we start to see the interconnectedness of all things, and, you know, one of the things I've been I'm thinking on recently is that, you know, because sometimes when I talk about this, people will be like, well, what about postmenopausal women or, you know, you know, men don't have, you know, this access to this kind of cyclical wisdom. And I'm like, listen, so. Due to some of my most recent profound spiritual experiences, I won't go into where they came from, how they, where they originated. But it's like this idea of creation, preservation, dissolution, rebirth, that's like essential to Hinduism, for example.

Right.

You that is applied everywhere. It is so applicable in so many areas of life as we're talking about within the body without side of the body and our economic systems and ecological systems. And the thing is, sorry I lost my train of thought, I was like I want to talk about like three different things and I want to tell her three different things at the same time. That happens to me all the time. I know, like, ah, it's so frustrating. So okay, so this is coming through, so this wants to be said. So in January, for example, I went to Varanasi and I went to the burning ghat and I which witnessed the ritual burning of corpses. Anybody can see.

And this is in India, just for the. Guess it don't. Actually, I didn't know that. Okay. All right. So that's what happens there. Okay. That's

what happens there. Yep. And it's very auspicious. And you know, and what I felt, what I experienced when I was there, it was so moving. It like literally changed my cellular structure inside it was like, I was like, this is the ritualization of the whole Hindu cosmology of, like I said, creation preservation, dissolution, rebirth encapsulated in this ritual. As you see these bodies being ritually burned and then around the, the burning grounds, you have the cows milling about and the dogs and the chickens, and it's like really embodiment of this profound truth that life and death are co current, they rely, they're two complementary sides like the yin and yang. You can't have one without the other. And that literally, like, right, like, we are able to persevere because we're feeding, if you will, on death, and when we die, our bodies go into the ground, the earthworms and stuff start to eat us, flowers grow You know, maybe, and then some animals come and eat that. So it's like, that is the cycle. And that's what the menstrual cycle represents to me in that way. And it doesn't, but this is why I wanted to bring this up in the first place. The menstrual cycle is one profound realization of that, but you could talk about birth in the same way, pregnancy in the same way I think. Like the other day I was like, oh, men I think can experience that through the sexual experience because when you think about the cycle of being in set having being in the sexual experience, and then getting to a climax and then you dissolution death. It's like that is another way through the generative organs to experience that because I was like men have to have some kind of like complimentary experience through the procreative organs of experiencing that in a complimentary way to women. And of course, women could experience that sexually, too. I just feel like through our embodied experiences of the procreative organs, women have more opportunities to experience experience that. But you know, the lungs, they breathe in and out the, what is it? The blood cycling around every seven years or something, you're a new person. So there's like infinite ways of experiencing this, but I want to talk about it through the menstrual cycle in a way to help women come home to themselves. And own that power and find find that that sacred power is right here. And we always have access to it. And if I may, on my little soapbox here, one of the other profound realizations I had in India through an interaction with the goddess Lalita, who is a tantric erotic goddess, goddess of eroticism. And not just like human sexuality, but like eroticism is life force energy as life force power. So the thing that came out of that for me is realizing that in my whole journey to like unpack what I experienced as menstrual shame, which was many years of, of realizing that I, I lived through this menstrual shame. And what I believe so many women do. I mean, I, I saw I think poll once that nearly 70 percent of women are ashamed of their periods. And this was like, Seven years ago, so it wasn't that long ago, you know so my whole research inquiry was about why do we have this shame, like, through these belief systems, we're taught to hate our bodies basically, or there's something wrong with us, or their bodies are dangerous or dirty or inconvenient through a modern taboo system And through a process of what I'm calling internalized sexism or internalized menstrual shame, where you learn to internalize the beliefs and the behaviors of the culture and then, you know, enact them on yourself and other women. And so once I realized I was doing that, I was like, Oh my God, there have to be other women doing this too. And so I was so focused on the shame part and why we feel shame. But when I went to India two or three months ago, I was like, No, no. Shame is not the problem. That's not the problem. That is a symptom of the problem. The problem is, and this is the crucial point in my book, so I'm like, even do I want to say it? But the problem is, is that we're not aware that that sacred feminine power is inside of us. And so when you don't know that it's there, what arises? Self hatred, fear, all of that stuff. So that's what my book is really about. It's about helping women discover, uncover, claim that power and the menstrual cycle as a profound manifestation of that power. And you, you know, it doesn't mean you have to like it. I don't always love my period. I struggle with it too. But yeah, I have a lot more to say and I could talk about like, You know, cultural menstrual rituals, but I'm going to pause there because I like to talk.

No, I'm, I'm so here for it. I'm just, I'm really feeling that. And I, there's like a, like, I get super energized by your words and I ended at the same time. I'm like, Oh, we have so far to come. Like, I'm so glad you're doing this work, you know, because that I think we internal, like, we internalize that, that suppression of the feminine power in so many ways, right, like in the range of our emotional experiences, or our desire, you know, which is such a core for me, I mean, I'm sure you've come across this, right, that's such a core. A key part of, of, of the divine feminine is like, you don't treat your desires as dirty or dangerous. You're like, what are you trying to teach me? Like, where are you showing me that I need to be more alive?

And,

and there's so many ways that we are like holding that, you know, power in. And And so it's exciting to talk about and it's like frustrating, like I wish we could just all, you know, like unzip ourselves or something and just like whoosh, let it all come out like that immediately.

Yes, yes, yes. And you know, I'm just remembering too, you had asked me specifically about Inanna and I went on another.

You

know, and she's, the reason I wanted to bring up all that about the great goddess too is because that's how I'm revisioning her so in my view of Inanna, there is the pre patriarchal version of her, which is kind of the early historic pre prehistoric, early historic Inanna. And then the Inanna that we know and love mostly through myths, that's the Inanna that's been patriarchalized. And it's very paradoxical in and of itself, because on the one hand, especially for modern women, she presents us with like sexually liberating images and narratives that are very powerful for us. And in the historical context, in my view, in, she was actually made that way as a patriarchal propaganda to enculturate women into their proper roles. Yeah, as maidens mothers is the lover to the king, all these different roles. So that's actually the chapter that I'm like finishing right now is that chapter. So it's very paradoxical in and of itself, but as a great goddess and the way that I've revisioned her she does represent it all. Because when you look at Hinduism and I compare her a lot to how, you know, I understand Shakti and Hinduism and the divine feminine, like, you know Shakti is like the great goddess, the feminine principle in her totality, which means life force energy which is really what Inanna embodies. She embodies this erotic life force energy. And she, and, but like Shakti, Shakti also has all of her goddess manifestations, right? She is like infinite and all of her possibilities and iterations. And so that's what makes her a paradox. And then every single one of those goddesses, let's take Durga, the goddess on the battlefield fighting the righteous fight. Like, you know, she's described as like, you know, luminous and beautiful and graceful and so sensual and what we might call like, you know I don't want to say sexual, but feminine, like what we might call feminine, right? And when you see images of her, she has all these flowers and this beautiful sari and gold. And then she's the only Deity, not even like male deity, deity period that can kill the buffalo demon and save the world. So all of the goddesses, that's what I see, have these paradoxical natures. For some reason, we're really focused in on Inanna in that way, but I'm like, I think it helps us understand Inanna When we compare cross culturally that this is a phenomena of many, many goddesses and probably gods too, but I don't pay attention to them so much. So and that it's like, yeah, that's actually what it is to be a great goddess and we're all great goddesses.

Yes. Oh, I love that.

Yeah. That's what, that, that was the most profound realization I had when I was with Lalita. I was like, I have spent 12 years searching for her out here, out here, doing everything, taking the classes, giving classes, doing the rituals, going on pilgrimage, going to graduate school for seven years and writing a dissertation, reading, I've done all the things. And here I am, and I had this profound meeting with the goddess in this most unexpected way. And all of a sudden I realized she was inside of me all along. And she's inside of you, and she's inside of everybody else. And you don't need to do anything. It's actually, you know, to, to borrow Monica's of, of Revelation. What is her podcast? Monica

Rogers, the Revelation of Rogers podcast.

Yeah, she talks about unbecoming. That's it. All you have to do is be. You unbecome all of this doing, and the domesticated, and all this stuff we put on top of ourselves. All that, none of that's it. It's in you, so you don't have to do anything except just allow it to arise. And that's, again, the direction I'm working with the menstrual cycle. If you just allow that power, that those, that power to be, I don't even know what that would look like if you could just allow it be in the being all the time. Like that is my, hopefully I will get there by the end of my life. That's what I'm hoping that it's like a thought process and I actually just get to experience it all the time. But for a nanosecond, I felt it. Through the eyes of the goddess. I was so grateful, but I also realized that this was the beginning of the new journey. And that's why I went, I was very clear. I was like, it has been 12 years since I went to India and initiated my journey. I need to initiate a new journey, you know, because I've been nomadic, I've been independent, I've been the seeker. And now I really want to bring her teachings out into the world, what I've learned and teach them somehow. I want to learn how to be in a relationship. I just, and that's. What that's what she gave me. And this is the, that, that profound realization of her inside of me was like, okay, it's not enlightenment, but this is the next unfolding. And then you're taking your first steps on the next. It's a 12 year journey.

Wow.

Yeah. So

I want to congratulate you because you made me teary eyed. I think you're the third guest in all 90 plus episodes that I've done that has gotten me to cry. So nicely done.

Well, you hold such great space. Thank you.

Really beautiful. Oh, I just thought I could, I had full body chills when you were saying that. It was so powerful. And it really does make me want to cry because it's so deceptively simple, isn't it? It's so deceptively simple, like what you're talking about and so fucking profound.

Yeah, it is. And I want to say to my friend who's helping me edit, she keeps reminding me that, you know, one of the things you can convey in the book is it's like this journey to the goddess. You've learned you Annalisa have learned is that it's not like, it's not like fast fashion. It's not like fast spirituality, like fast. For 99. 9 percent of us, we're not going to have that realization in a weekend workshop, but that's part of the journey, you know, and to just like relax into like, okay, this is, this is, it's a journey and it's going to unfold how it does for me, which will be different for you. And just to, I don't know, maybe find joy or peace in the unfoldment rather than like, Oh, I have to find it right now. It's like, Hey, you know, and I just want to reassure people because it's. It's going to look different for everybody. And it's, you know, I don't know what it's going to look like for you, what the realization of the Divine Feminine will look like for anybody, but just be gentle and spacious with yourself and knowing that it's, it is a journey, a life journey.

Yeah. And it's funny, even as you're saying that, I'm like, oh yeah, and the title of this show is Home to Her, which is like home to ourselves. So I'm like. Okay, yeah, I just remind myself of, you know, like, yeah, and I think it looking different for everybody is the point, like, oh my god, it's, it's not supposed to be the same, like, like, that's, that's the nature of our world is multiplicity and I, I do want to go back and just say this really quickly, what you were saying about, I so appreciate the reframe on, on, Inanna as like, you know, pre patriarchal great goddess. I love that. And you were reminding me, I had another podcast guest who was on, I think late 2023. She's an astrologer named Damascena Tanis. And she said something recently that really stuck with me. And she said you know, when you get down to it at the heart of the goddess is always paradox, always that is the nature of her great mother got like, that's it.

That's it. I mean, because Shakti is, Again, the Hinduism, right? She is everything. She is matter, antimatter, form, formlessness, light, dark, male, female, whatever. She's all, she's, she's the yin yang and and celebrate that. And the great thing about that is like, okay, then I'm, I can just be free to be me because I'm the paradox too. And I don't have to fix myself. Yes.

There's nothing wrong with me. Yeah, and there's just an invitation to just accept like what we cannot know like I was I'm remembering that I Got this message I was at the ocean in Northern, California. God so long ago now like almost 10 years ago and from her and the message was all things are true and All things are well, all is ebb and flow, ebb and flow, repeat. And so like just even holding that paradox, how can all things be true? How can all things be well? Like, and yet it, it is, it just is. And there's just a surrender in that too. Like, I don't think our brains are meant to understand it. Like you, you can't in this human form, like your, your head will explode. Right. We can't, we don't have the capacity for it. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. I love that word, surrendering to it too. That is just yet just part of the unfolding, just allow it to be. And. And, and this, like you said, this simplicity, there's just, I will actually surrender is probably one of the hardest things we could ever do. As I'm saying, it's simple. I'm like, it's actually the most difficult.

So hard. Yeah. Yeah. Which, you know, I mean, the menstrual cycle can teach us about that too, right? Like

you get

to practice every, every moon cycle, you know, it's like surrendering to what is.

Yeah, I also want to just comment on, on you and your work too, because you're, as I expressed in my interview with you, like I had such a a transformational moment reading your story of childbirth and that experience of sacred feminine, and then you shared that sacred feminine power, and then you shared your story of experiencing sacred feminine power through childbirth, or you might have labeled it something else. I'm calling it sacred feminine power.

Oh, that works. Yeah.

And I actually right now have it written into my book as an example. So I have your story in there. Yes. I love that. Hopefully it makes the, the cut, the edits. So but that for me was, it was, it was really helpful for me to also kind of think about menstruation, you know, cause menstruation as sacred feminine power, like that sacred feminine power that comes through these, like, Our bodies like in such powerful, profound ways. And so there was a way, there was a way in which your story kind of also helped me on my journey to, to think about the menstrual cycle and, you know, nuanced ways.

Oh, I love that. That's so cool. That's awesome. So much. I could ask you, I want to hear though. Okay. So you've got like this unfolding. Well, first of all, I don't want to put you on the spot. Do you have a publication? Do you, you don't, you don't know yet when your book might come out, right? Because I'm all excited about it. I'm already ready to get it.

I'm thinking next year. Okay. Well, maybe, maybe I can send you the, the copy and you can give me a little blurb on the back.

I would love to. And then you have to come back and talk to me about, you know. That would be fun. Yeah, for sure. So I'm

assuming it'll be this time next year because of kind of the trajectory that I'm on right now.

Okay. That's great. And then tell me, okay, so now you've got this, this moment in India with Lalita, right? And, and, and now like there's an unfolding. So what's, where is, where do you see your, your journey with the goddess taking you now?

before I made the journey to start to, to write my dissertation on the the menstrual cycle, the sacredness of the menstrual cycle, I actually ended up in a museum with my grad school cohort. We were in Arizona and there were It was a Native American focused museum, so I was introduced to the Apache sunrise ceremony, which is a puberty ritual rite of passage for Apache girls. And my understanding is that it happens around the time of. First bleeding menarche and in this belief system, they go through this really intensive four day ritual. And they are believed to come into or become at least symbolically they're Changing Woman who was one of the most important sacred beings within their. You know, religion or belief system. And so they go through this ritual and they kind of embody her power and her power has to do with, again, that great goddess power of the cycles of creation, preservation, dissolution. So they, through the four day ritual, they become Changing Woman. In a way, and similarly in in, in Hinduism, they had these same kind of belief systems. When a woman gets married, she becomes Lakshmi. She's embodying the energy of Lakshmi And so I really got to thinking, at first when I encountered it, I was so like, I was like, Oh my God, why would you want to celebrate menstruation? Because I was like, still really in the menstrual shame phase. But it's stuck with me this whole time. And I've come to realize actually how important these meaning making rituals are for people as they're going from, you know, teenage years into adulthood and that if we don't have a ritual to celebrate what it means to start menstruating and like the myriad things that it could mean, like beyond biological, even though that is important, it is important that women will continue to not know our bodies, to hate our bodies, to just be really disassociated or You know, function in ways that are not respectful to our own natural rhythms and the needs of our bodies. So there's so many ways in which that, you know, the, the Apache ceremony, it enculturates women into their, into what it means to be a woman and their cultural perspective and their role within a community in which, in which that, in that worldview, you know, we live in a very individualistic culture. I believe that. You know, in their worldview, you're born into a community and your role as a community member is, I think, as important as your role as an individual, unlike in our culture, where that's not really the case. So, having said that, I really see the Descent of Inanna myth as I would like to make it into a four day ritual for women who grew up feeling that there was something wrong with them because they menstruated, which was my belief. And fundamentally wrong. Like that was one of my core stories that came up during this process is there's something fundamentally wrong with me because I'm a woman and because I bleed. And so that ritual is for women who feel that way, like me, who grew up Feeling that way. And so to nurture the little girl inside of them that still harbors that self hatred, to go through that ritual that they never got as teenage girls and to help them step into their symbolic power as women creatrix is whatever word you might want to use. So that's the seed idea that I have. And then more recently, as I step into my new journey, moving to Athens, Greece here pretty soon. I had a vision recently in which a friend of mine, she was pulling some cards for me and she pulled the goddess Athena and I had been really worried about my visa process going through. And. And all this technical details. And I mean, Athena, the one Oracle deck she had, the only card she pulled was Athena. And I was like, this couldn't be more perfect. Like I'm trying to live in Athena city and here we go. She's like, so I was like, I'm going to start appeasing her. I have her on my altar over here. I'm like, what does she want? I'll give you what you want. There's this long term dream vision of moving to Athena's city and or her country really and building a temple in honor of her and that is the place where I can actually put on this ritual and and I'm talking about building a temple in honor of the pre patriarchal Athena because if anybody who's you know started to dive down the feminist goddess spirituality research on the Greek goddesses, we know that Athena is a, she's a daddy's girl.

She's a mouthpiece of the patriarchy. So I'm talking,

you know, wants me to build the pre patriarchal temple to her. I will do these women's rights there and, you know, I'll invite guests, other people to, you know put on classes and workshops and, but I've been really In my heart, like where is the best place to do this? Where would it be most serving the land and the people to do this in Greece? And you know, more recently, I don't know if a lot of people know this, there's a site in Greece called Eleusinia, which is the site of the ancient Eleusinian mysteries. So for people that don't know, that's where they basically, it was an ancient mystery cult in which people would go through the experience of we think a transformational experience of, of life and, and death and rebirth experience that was so profound. It would like. I don't know, changed their perspective on life. They weren't afraid of death anymore. They understood their place in the cosmos, whatever. It was a very profound experience for people. And it was centered on the myth of the mother of Demeter and her daughter, Persephone. And so Also

descends like Inanna, by the way.

Yes,

exactly.

Who also, yes, thank you. Exactly. So it's the most sacred place to the divine feminine, arguably in Greece, but currently it's surrounded by a lot of oil refineries. So you can imagine how penetrative and extracting and destructive that is to the mother and the, and the, the symbology of that being there on the most sacred land to the mother. And then I was looking at the map recently, there's a massive military base nearby too. So it was like, They are trying to colonize the mother with the patriarchy as strongly and I was like, that's where I need to put the temple to Athena to actually, you know, heal the divine feminine that's been colonized there to help her regenerate herself, and to bring as many divine feminine folk there to help heal the land and there's a lot of. And there's a lot of healing. I believe that the goddess is looking to bring people there to Greece, particularly right now, especially because it's like the origin of Western patriarchy. So I think that is one of the core places where she needs to be regenerated and healed. And I've met several women on the last couple of years who are being called to do their version of the work there. So something's happening.

Oh, well, for sure. Yeah, I'm, I'm wanting to name Oh my God. I keep, how can I blank on her name? Carla? Oh yeah.

Iuenscu.

Iuenscu. I know she's, she's a friend. I'm like, Oh my God, I've lost her name. Right. And her, her desire to do this on Crete. Right. I know she's talked about that. And in my, one of my most recent podcast guests, Oh, I'm so excited to share this with you. Her name is Cynthia Jurs and she is, do you know, are you familiar with her? She's

I follow her somehow. Yeah.

She's a Lama in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition and also was ordained by Thich Nhat Hanh, like taught with him for many, many years and has for the past 30 years been involved in something called, she works with something called earth treasure vases. It was an assignment given to her by holy man in a cave in Nepal, where these monks have made earth treasure vases and sent them to her to fill with prayers and she buries them in the All over the world. And one of the last places she went was Athens. And the, and the directions to her were like the, the, the treasure vase will do the work. Like you get it there and place it in sacred ceremony. And. That's all you have to do. And so, and yeah, and through that, it became a whole connection. And it's, we didn't actually talk about this on the podcast guys. So you have to go and read her book because it's in the book. But it also became like through her, her Tibetan Buddhist practice. She eventually realized that it was Gaia who was speaking to her. Oh

wow. Right?

And she even has a line in the book that's so great, which it says, Guru Yoga became Gaia Yoga. Oh my god. I know. So good. So yeah, I think you're onto something, like that feeling of like Greece is a place of where this energy is coalescing. And yeah, I'm so, I'm excited for you. Wow.

Yeah. Thank you. I mean, yeah. And it's like one of many, it's like, we're each being called in our own way to do the work differently and to do it in different places. And it's important to everywhere. I just, you know, between that story, I just told you in the fact that I've now heard from several women and I had my own experience with this, which I won't go into right now, but I've heard from several women that when they've gone to different sacred sites in they've been shut down by the employees. basically and told to leave. So like, if they're doing like a meditation at the Temple of Artemis, for example, was one story I heard. They gathered to do them and they were told they needed to leave. And I've heard multiple stories like this. So it was like, like, There is actually now a concerted effort to, oh, whoa, hello.

So for listeners, there's just this wild explosion of fireworks behind Annalisa on the video. I don't know how that happened and it feels significant. So go watch, if you're listening, instead of watching on YouTube, go, go see this. This is pretty cool. That felt significant. All right.

It sure did. I'm like, I'm like, so deer in the headlights right now in this moment. So anyway, I just, I think that what that says to me is that the patriarchy is catching wind, that the divine feminine is gaining strength and grace, and she's trying to, you know, bring herself home to that land and bring back, you know, to regenerate herself and And so, yeah, so I, that's, that's my call.

Well, I love it. And actually Cynthia does mention in her book that she had one of the earth treasure vases out, I think at Delphi or something. I'm not really sure, but it was, yeah. And somebody was like, what are you doing? What is that? You know, she had to like put it away and kind of sneak off and find somewhere else to put it. Yeah. So

that was actually, that's where I had the experience too, where I was kicked out of a site in Delphi for trying to do it. I make these goddess performances and I was like, okay. And I had to go do it. Like, I still did it in Delphi, but like on the side of the road.

Wow.

Yeah.

Well as predicted before we got on, I just knew I, this was going to fly by, and there's so much more that I feel like we could talk about. So I think what I just need to say is, can you come back? Will you please come back when, once you've moved and your book is out and like, some of these things are in motion, let's just do round two, where you can tell us all about what's happening. Okay.

I would love that. It's been such a pleasure. I love talking to you and I, and I love your stories too. So I think I would be thrilled to come back anytime.

It would be amazing. Well, I'm just super excited for you and all that you have percolating and just super grateful for you sharing your story and your time and your experiences with all of us. Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah. So fun. And thanks to all of you for listening as always. I've said this many times. I'd do it without you because I'm into this, but this makes it more reasonable for me to spend a lot of my time doing this is knowing that you're listening to. So thank you for joining me on these fascinating conversations. And if you like the show, you can subscribe to it. You can Give it a favorable review. You can tell all your friends about it. You can do all those things if you so desire. And until next time, take very good care of yourselves and enjoy your own journey to the goddess and I will be with you again soon. Home to Her is hosted by me, Liz Kelly. You can visit me online at hometoher. com, where you can find show notes and other episodes. You can read articles about the Sacred Feminine, and you'll also find a link to join the Home to Her Facebook group for lots more discussion and exploration of Her. You can also follow me on Instagram, at home to her, to keep up to date with the latest episodes. Thanks so much for joining us and we'll see you back here soon.