Janice Porter: Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's
episode of relationships rule. My guest this week is Celeste,
the trademark accelerator, and this is an interesting topic
that I know very little about, and so I thought it would be
interesting to share with you my audience, because Celeste has
been in this field for many, many years, and she is a pro at
it, and so I appreciate her coming on the show. Welcome to
the show, Celeste. Thank you so much for having me. I really
appreciate it. You're very welcome. Celeste is coming to us
from England, which is really cool, and for the past 10 years,
has been consulting clients who feel overwhelmed by the daunting
task of trademark application. She's aware that not everything
can or should be trade become trademarks, and will only
perform the application if she's certain that she can avoid
wasting her clients money. And so that's probably a really good
place to start, like what is trademarkable and what isn't.
Celeste Reumert: So anything that is generic cannot be
trademarked, and anything that is unique can't. Well, not
anything, but things that are unique can be because there are
still things that cannot, cannot and should not ever be
trademarked and and that's as it should be, because if everything
could be trademarked, then we wouldn't be able to have a
normal conversation, and that would be a pain in the behind,
as you can imagine. So so it's really important to know and
understand that, yes, you may be able to do it yourself to
register a trademark yourself. However, there is that thing
with a rejection. You may not understand why the trademark
authority rejected it, and you may not think that that you did
anything wrong. However, you will not get the money back,
because all the trademark authorities all over the world,
they will always all work in the same way, where they assess your
application, and if you do not have the legal knowledge, you
may actually risk being rejected. You may be lucky and
do register a trademark yourself. However, in many
cases, you will get a rejection, and what you don't get is you
don't get the money back, because they perform their job
and assess your
Janice Porter: Yeah, so you're better to work with an expert
like you to make sure that you're going on the right track.
So I think of trademarks as visual things that you're
trademarking, like a logo or a title, or, you know, your store
name, or, you know, things that people visual things. And I
think, okay, so there's intellectual property. Is that
the like umbrella of all these things? Okay, so trademarks, and
then copyrights, and then what else is there? Copyright is like
for books and things, right? And papers and words,
Celeste Reumert: yes, and this is So, this is my book, and I
have a copyright. Control your own
Janice Porter: copyright. It's more, okay, perfect. It needs
updating, yeah.
Celeste Reumert: But this, this is my book, and it's my it's
actually my life's work, and what I've done also, because I'm
me, I've put my trademark on every single page.
Janice Porter: Ah, okay. And for our listeners, the trademark
that Celeste has is like her shield. It's like, it's almost
like a shield. So she has, it's unique, and therefore it was
able to be trademarked, and that's what I'm seeing. And her
company name is Grand IPR, correct? Yes, that is correct.
Okay, so we've got, we've got content would be under
copyright. Is that correct?
Celeste Reumert: Yes, and so. And it also covers films and it
covers photographs and it covers sound recording and
architecture. And actually, in France, they are quite adamant
about upholding rights to certain structures. So the
Eiffel Tower, for instance, even though it was built back in the
1800s there is now a light installation on it. And if you
do not have specific permission, you may photograph it, but you
may not use it for purposes you have to obtain permit. Oh,
Janice Porter: interesting. But how do they how do they monitor
that?
Celeste Reumert: I don't know how they monitor that. I just
know that that's how, how they, they behave in France, right?
Janice Porter: Interesting. So, okay, so that actually interests
me in that you live where, in London, right? Or no, I live
Celeste Reumert: in England. I live in North Lacher, but my
business is registered in London, right?
Janice Porter: So, but, and you're, you. Have lived in, I
think you're Danish. Is that correct? Or you've lived in
Denmark, you went to
Celeste Reumert: school, and I was born in Denmark, correct?
And I studied the law in Denmark, and I always felt that
I wanted to move sort of beyond the little, little areas that
Denmark is. Denmark is. Denmark is a very, very small economic
area, even though it's a strong one, there are only 7 million
people in all of Denmark. So like, Paris is like twice as big
Paris alone,
Janice Porter: you know, so are things different in Europe than
they are in North America when it comes to trademark and
copyright. Do you know, or is it just usually that it with this
type of thing? It's the same worldwide.
Celeste Reumert: The really, really excellent thing for me is
it's more or less the same worldwide. So that makes my life
so much easier. And and, yeah, people do?
Janice Porter: People? Do people apply for trademarks in multiple
countries?
Celeste Reumert: Yes, there is no such thing as a global
trademark that does not exist. So even the big brands that we
think of as a global trademark, such as Apple, for instance,
yes, is not a global trademark. They
Janice Porter: have to have the trademark in every country that
they sell, and they
Celeste Reumert: don't, they don't even have it every single
country, because there will be countries where it's deemed on,
on worthwhile for them or not worthwhile. That was a funny
word I made up.
Janice Porter: Yeah, not worthwhile, yeah. So, yeah. Oh,
interesting. Okay, that I didn't, I wouldn't have thought
of so you, you have, you have a couple of comments here on, I
think it might be a workshop that you do, but you're talking
about what people need to know, about how to protect their their
content, their copyright, their cash flow, their credibility and
their confidentiality. And so those are all interesting to me.
So how do you copyright your cash or, how do you protect your
cash flow? First of all,
Celeste Reumert: so these are all all topics that I touch on
in the upcoming event I did. I actually wrapped it last week,
and I'm doing it again in November on the 25th so it's
five days, and these are 30 minute sessions, and there is a
mystery gift for the people who attend. To be eligible, they
have to be there all five days. And it's it's a really great and
fun event, because people come with different backgrounds and
different sort of issues and different experiences, and so
are
Janice Porter: they learning? It's mostly to learn about how
to trademark something, or whether what they have is is
worthy of being trademarked. It
Celeste Reumert: is to learn what type of intellectual
property they have. First of all, okay, because all of, all
of so all of the intellectual property goes hand in hand to
form a stronger shield of protection, as I always say, Oh,
okay. And actually, people have a tendency to push intellectual
property to the backs of their minds because it sounds so
complex. And yes, it is complex. However, for me, it is not
complex, and I absolutely love it. And I love these events that
I'm doing so much that I will just keep doing them, because
they are so educational for people, and they just love them.
I got some really, really great testimonials. So I just, I just
know that this is part of what I'm meant to be doing moving
forward. So, you know, there's no question about that. And it
is also important that people understand that they can have
different types of intellectual property that can affect their
cash flow if they don't protect it.
Janice Porter: Well, I think what comes to my mind is what
the big, huge changes that happened a few years ago in the
music industry, and how artists and songwriters and so on really
had to step up their protection of their properties. And we saw
Taylor
Celeste Reumert: Swift, she all of her own work, yeah,
Janice Porter: because somebody else was owned. Her property,
right? And intellectual property, intellectual property,
yes, her intellectual property, yeah. And so she chose to do
that, but, and that's a huge undertaking and expense in
itself, but then she has a license to print money anyway.
But anyway, that's, she's, she's another story. However, she's
Celeste Reumert: an interesting lady. And, yeah, she's got loads
of trademarks, by the way.
Janice Porter: Yeah, interesting. So, so there's
that. And then I think the rise of intellectual property
attorneys rose as well. Because it became, it has become, with
the way the world is a bigger issue now we've got chat GPT and
all of the things that go along with that. There's going to be
more laws and more new ways of looking at things to protect
people's intellectual property, right?
Celeste Reumert: And also, the thing is, with regards to AI, I
use it because it's to me who experiences life with dyslexia.
It was a label I got right after I got my master's degree in law.
It can help me immensely to get stuff with the help of AI and
and the more creative we are, and the more sort of we refine
it, the more protectable it actually becomes. At the
beginning, I thought that that's there's no way that this is
protectable. And actually, I heard a podcast from Denmark the
other day, where they said that the more you are creative with
what you put into it. And that's the important thing to know
about, AI, because when we started out using it, I started
I had no idea how to use it. I just, you know, put whatever in.
And so the result came back really, really poor. But the
better we get at romping the AI tool to work for us, the more it
gets to sound, I guess, and the more it gets protectable,
actually. So that's really, really interesting. And, and
even, yeah, even, even photographers can also use AI
prompts and stuff like that. So it is about being as creative. I
think there was something in that podcast, unfortunately, in
some Danish. So unless people understand Danish, they won't
understand what's going on. But there, I think there was
something about a Vogue photo shoot where the photographer had
been really, really creative, and put in loads and loads and
loads and loads and loads of information, and each time
tweaking it so that it became more and more refined, and that
then was a Vogue cover, and that was actually protectable. And
this is really important to know and understand, because
otherwise we can think that, oh no, because it's an AI tool, I'm
not protected, actually, yes, we are. So
Janice Porter: you're saying that they, this photographer
created the shoot through AI. I'm
Celeste Reumert: not entirely sure how that happened. I just
know that the prots that
Janice Porter: were put in, well, they do do visuals on it,
so it makes sense. Yeah, I think that
Celeste Reumert: it was the visual for it. I'm not sure it
was the actual photo shoot, but it was definitely a vote that
Janice Porter: was probably an artificial photo shoot. It was
done through AI, yeah, interesting, yeah. And you never
know anymore. Like, you know, I'm a LinkedIn trainer, and I've
been doing some training lately with a group of people that are
in this corporation. And I always talk about, you know,
their headshots, and three of the last people that I've talked
to have all used AI photos. And I'm like, really, like, I didn't
know two of them were but the third one, I knew the person, so
I knew it was something a bit off to me, but I can still
recognize it, but I it some of it's weird, still weird, like
and of course, the people are saying to me, well, it saved me
a lot of money and time to do it that way. But, you know, I don't
want to put people out of a job yet. Thank you. So I say go to a
photographer. But I just thought it was interesting that, you
know, we're using it for many different things, and in good
ways and in bad ways. So that's where the trademarks and the
copyrights and all of that comes into play as well right now. And
we also
Celeste Reumert: have to be very, very aware of deep fake,
because it has become so mind blowing that I saw a short video
clip. I think it was on LinkedIn, where or YouTube. I
can't remember exactly where, but it you saw like at the front
there was a female, and then up in the corner you saw a man, and
it was the man's voice that came out of the female's mouth. And
so it was just showing how deep fake has become. So they can
really manipulate. Yes,
Janice Porter: I've seen some examples of manipulation as
well. In fact, Oprah did an interesting show on AI a couple
a few weeks ago, and they had some different examples of
things that they showed it was quite, quite devastating. It was
kind of eye opening, but scary in a lot of ways, for sure. So
you've talked a little bit about, and this is sort of an
aside, but you've talked twice now about dyslexia and being
diagnosed. As an adult with dyslexia. So if you went all
through school and all through your life to that point not
knowing what was wrong, but you struggled with reading, I'm
said, I'm guessing and
Celeste Reumert: not reading homework, I hated homework the
way.
Janice Porter: You don't have to be you don't have to hate have
dyslexia to hate homework. So how did it
Celeste Reumert: affect you? I didn't thrive with it. I didn't.
I didn't enjoy it. I didn't, yeah, I didn't like it. And I,
you know, I don't know why. I just didn't, didn't enjoy it,
and and I'm managed to go through, like, the majority of
my schooling, and as I say, I started studying the law at 35
so there was a gap between. I finished whatever I was doing
before and then started studying the law. And I just had no idea.
I just thought that I was incredibly slow when it and I
didn't understand how to structure an assignment. Even
while I was at university, I didn't understand how to
structure it properly. And so that was I didn't get very good
grades, except in intellectual property
Janice Porter: well, but with from my understanding I was a
teacher, and from my understanding dyslexia is seeing
letters and numbers backwards and mixing them up. In some
cases, I
Celeste Reumert: don't do that necessarily. Just there are just
words. They're just words that I cannot re spell, like
Switzerland and Danish, I cannot spell it. Yeah, there are things
the word necessary in English, I've had to figure out a way to
say the word to myself so that I can spell it.
Janice Porter: Okay. So spelling is an issue. Yes, yeah. And
grammar is an issue, okay, okay. Well, and how many languages do
you speak? Six? Yes, see, so no wonder. I mean, it's got to be
confusing. I mean, nobody speaks that. Only Europeans are the
people that I know that speak more than one, that were two
languages at the most. I'm so envious, and I could never start
at this late age, but it's amazing to me. But that has to
come into play, because, you know, actually I saw, I saw a
very funny bit on Instagram where this guy was showing
words, and he said, like, B, O M, B, bomb. And then he put the
next word up, C, O M, B, that should be calm, right? No, it's
calm. And then he went through a whole list of them. It was
hysterical, because the English language is not easy for for a
foreigner to to understand spelling and and reading wise.
So I would imagine that would play into you learn if you've
been able to learn so many different languages, are you
sure them
Celeste Reumert: since I was a little child? Yeah, I think that
has something to do with it, because, and I've always loved
languages. And actually my father, well, you know, both my
father and my mother and my maternal grandmother, they would
read stories to me, so maybe that's why I love reading. I
don't know. However, there was one story in particular that my
father was reading where there was this young girl who
collected words. So I started collecting
Janice Porter: I love it. That's great. Well, my granddaughter,
I'm going off on a little tangent here, but my
granddaughter, who's five, couple weeks ago, was over and
said she wanted to watch this little five year old special
show Paw Patrol, which is big in the United States and Canada.
And I couldn't find it as well. Okay, so I couldn't find what
she wanted on Netflix, so we found it, and it was on the
French channel. And I said, Well, you have to watch it in
French. She said, Okay, grandma, so she'd seen it before anyway,
so she knew exactly what was going on, and she watched it in
French. So she came over last week and she said, Could I watch
that show in French again, grandma? So I thought that was
really funny. And that's when they're going to pick it up,
right? That's when they're going to pay attention to that. So I
thought that was really funny. Okay, I digressed. And okay, so
if I would imagine what the answer will be to this, but I'm
going to ask you anyway. So do people talk to you about the
names of their companies and whether and then, do you often
suggest or recommend a tweak to make it trademarkable?
Celeste Reumert: Yes, they do, and that's what the asks list.
Anything session is for so that they can ask me all the
questions that are like, Oh, I don't know what to do about
this. Or I don't know, is this even something that can become
registered as a trademark or, you know, and in those sessions,
I can then say, I recommend that you can. Something different,
and depending on how many questions they have, because
they may have many questions that may eat up all the time
because it's a 15 minute session, however, if it's just
the one question, then we can sit and have a conversation
about what I would suggest, like I I would never suggest to
someone that they use their personal name for their
business. I do say that. Sorry. I knew you were going to say
that, yeah, because I there was a Danish clothes designer that
I'm connected to on LinkedIn. We weren't we weren't friends. When
I heard her story, because it was part of the case study, what
I was studying in the law. However, she had a business, and
she was using her personal name for her label, and to cut a
really long and tedious story short, the label, her business
went bust, and the label was sold to a third party, and then
she continued using her name as her label, and then she was
infringing upon Yeah, and so the High Court of Denmark has
sentenced her to find herself a new name, and so it's only on
social media in her own home, she is still the same person.
She can still use her birth name, but on social media. And
so she chose the name Lou, because in in Danish, l, I, V
means life, and she reasoned that she was not dead, she was
still alive. So that's why she chose that, and she now has a
completely different business name, and she's doing really,
really well, and she's massively successful, and she's absolutely
a wonderful person. And actually, something similar
happened to a designer here in the UK called karen millen. I
haven't got the exact details of her story, but it's something
similar. So I always say, be careful of using your own
personal name, because it may actually have severe
consequences. And, you know, I see it as my, my job to protect
people as best I can. And even in those 15 minutes I will, I
will do my best to do that. That's
Janice Porter: very interesting. Those are good stories, good
examples. Mm, hmm. So, of course, I did that. I chose my
name because I learned that. You know, I was a one. I was a solo
printer, and I wanted people to recognize me for they. Wanted
them to know my name, because I'm all about relationships and
people, and so I wanted to make sure that you meet. But you
know, if I had to do it again, I'd probably do something
different. But I don't know it's too late for me now, but that's
okay. It's all good. So, but it definitely is an interesting and
we ought to take more we are. We ought to pay more attention to
trademarking and register and copyrights and things like that,
because in this, this is the word litigious, litigious world
where people are suing people left and right.
Celeste Reumert: We do have to, and especially in North America.
Oh, I know, yeah, very, very particular to to North America.
I know they are, well, more more
Janice Porter: the US than Canada. Canada is we're all too
polite. Okay, sorry, I'm in us, so that's okay. I'm not, I'm not
offended, for sure, but it is something that it sounds as
though having an expert guide one through it is also the best
way to go. So okay, you live in the UK. You speak a lot of
Denmark because you went to school. You did some schooling
there. Do you ever come over here to North America? Have you
ever been over to North America, not yet,
Celeste Reumert: and I'm not averse to it. I would like to,
and I obviously also do read up about the legislation in both
Canada and America, because in Canada actually the trademark
protection is a tiny bit longer than in most of the countries,
because in Canada, it is 15 years, and most other countries
have a 10 year period. So in Canada, it's a 15 year renewal
cycle, and in other countries, it's a 10 year, uh, renewal
cycle. And in America, after five years, you have to provide
proof of usage.
Janice Porter: Oh, really, yes, what? Or they take it away, or,
or what it could Oh, interesting, yes. What's an
example of that? So you like you would need, you would start a
company and get it trademarked, the name trademarks, but then
you may. Maybe don't do anything for a couple of years with it.
Celeste Reumert: I don't have any examples of people that
haven't done that. I have examples of of companies that
haven't upheld their their rights. So Sony, Oh no, what?
Yeah, Sony had Walkman. Walkman was a trademark. It's no longer
a trademark. Escalator used to be a trademark. Oh,
Janice Porter: interesting escalator,
Celeste Reumert: yeah. Um, I know that Xerox is very, very,
uh, aware of people saying that they're xeroxing stuff, because
that is not, that is not right. You, you can copy something with
the photocopier, but you don't Xerox it.
Janice Porter: And that's like, Kleenex too. Then I guess,
Celeste Reumert: I don't know if Kleenex has fallen in. I haven't
looked that up, but I, you know, I had, I had a few examples in
my book, but, yeah, those are the ones that I can remember. I
think, yeah, escalator nylon was a trademark as well. So it's
just really, really important that you have your trademark and
then you register it, but you cannot leave it alone. You need
to enforce it as well, and that is also part of the service that
I deliver. Okay,
Janice Porter: excellent. All right. So couple of last
questions for you, please, Celeste, the first one is, what
is your best piece of advice that you would give my audience
around what you do? What would you like to leave with them?
Celeste Reumert: I want them to reflect on whatever it is that
they have created, and really know and understand that it has
real value in the world, and as such, it does actually need
tender love and care in the form of either copyright protection
or, well, not either, or actually both, so that they
protect it. And if it is an object, like an iPhone for for
Apple, you know, it's not just the item itself. It is the whole
experience. So the box itself, the way things are organized
inside the box, really, all of that has been thought off, and
they are protecting that. So in Denmark, they refer to something
called trade dress, and it's, it's, it's the packaging of how
something is presented to you as the consumer. So there are so
many things to consider once you have because you know, if you
have a signature program or a new product, or you have made a
new invention, like, say, you've had a massive breakthrough in
medical invention that deserves a protection with a patent. So
it is. It's about sitting back and thinking, Okay, this thing
that I have put all my time, energy, love and maybe even
tears and blood and sweat into it deserves me looking properly
after it. So I'm going to talk to somebody like Celeste and and
have her help me in this situation, you know,
Janice Porter: yeah, that's excellent advice. And I'm always
curious. I'm a curious person, and I'm I'm curious to know your
thoughts on curiosity. So do you think that curiosity is innate
or learned? And part two, what are you most curious about
today? So part one, first,
Celeste Reumert: I think maybe it is innate, because there are
people that are just not that curious, and there are people
that, you know almost feel that they themselves are all they
ever need. And you know, that's fine. I'm not judging anyone
here. It's just I think that curiosity is what helps us to be
creative and innovative. And what am I curious about this
conversation today, I was curious about where it would
take us, and I've totally loved this conversation because it has
taken us in many different directions. And that's what I
love. That's what Curiosity will do for you. It will lead you
down different paths, and then you come back, and then you go
down another path. I totally love that. Oh,
Janice Porter: excellent. I'm glad that you enjoyed it,
because I guess that's my crazy mind and what happens and and my
curiosity takes over. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you for
being here today. It was most enjoyable and informative as
well. In many ways, I appreciated that, and I hope my
audience does. Two and to that point, thank you for being here.
And please let me know. Let us know if you like what you heard.
And please feel free to get hold of Celeste. Check out her book.
I will leave the information to find her in the show notes. And
remember to stay connected and be remembered. Thank you for
having me. You're welcome.