1 00:00:02,280 --> 00:00:04,080 Janice Porter: Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:08,580 episode of relationships rule. My guest this week is Celeste, 3 00:00:08,580 --> 00:00:12,960 the trademark accelerator, and this is an interesting topic 4 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:15,840 that I know very little about, and so I thought it would be 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:22,220 interesting to share with you my audience, because Celeste has 6 00:00:22,220 --> 00:00:26,600 been in this field for many, many years, and she is a pro at 7 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:29,900 it, and so I appreciate her coming on the show. Welcome to 8 00:00:29,900 --> 00:00:32,960 the show, Celeste. Thank you so much for having me. I really 9 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,960 appreciate it. You're very welcome. Celeste is coming to us 10 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,680 from England, which is really cool, and for the past 10 years, 11 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,660 has been consulting clients who feel overwhelmed by the daunting 12 00:00:43,660 --> 00:00:47,860 task of trademark application. She's aware that not everything 13 00:00:47,860 --> 00:00:52,660 can or should be trade become trademarks, and will only 14 00:00:52,660 --> 00:00:56,020 perform the application if she's certain that she can avoid 15 00:00:56,020 --> 00:00:59,800 wasting her clients money. And so that's probably a really good 16 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:04,020 place to start, like what is trademarkable and what isn't. 17 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,100 Celeste Reumert: So anything that is generic cannot be 18 00:01:08,100 --> 00:01:11,940 trademarked, and anything that is unique can't. Well, not 19 00:01:11,940 --> 00:01:17,040 anything, but things that are unique can be because there are 20 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:20,900 still things that cannot, cannot and should not ever be 21 00:01:20,900 --> 00:01:25,040 trademarked and and that's as it should be, because if everything 22 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:27,260 could be trademarked, then we wouldn't be able to have a 23 00:01:27,260 --> 00:01:29,900 normal conversation, and that would be a pain in the behind, 24 00:01:29,900 --> 00:01:34,040 as you can imagine. So so it's really important to know and 25 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:38,600 understand that, yes, you may be able to do it yourself to 26 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,740 register a trademark yourself. However, there is that thing 27 00:01:41,740 --> 00:01:47,620 with a rejection. You may not understand why the trademark 28 00:01:47,620 --> 00:01:53,440 authority rejected it, and you may not think that that you did 29 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:55,840 anything wrong. However, you will not get the money back, 30 00:01:55,840 --> 00:02:00,480 because all the trademark authorities all over the world, 31 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:05,700 they will always all work in the same way, where they assess your 32 00:02:05,700 --> 00:02:11,460 application, and if you do not have the legal knowledge, you 33 00:02:11,460 --> 00:02:15,240 may actually risk being rejected. You may be lucky and 34 00:02:15,300 --> 00:02:18,600 do register a trademark yourself. However, in many 35 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:24,320 cases, you will get a rejection, and what you don't get is you 36 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:27,320 don't get the money back, because they perform their job 37 00:02:27,380 --> 00:02:29,240 and assess your 38 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:31,220 Janice Porter: Yeah, so you're better to work with an expert 39 00:02:31,220 --> 00:02:33,860 like you to make sure that you're going on the right track. 40 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:41,140 So I think of trademarks as visual things that you're 41 00:02:41,140 --> 00:02:46,660 trademarking, like a logo or a title, or, you know, your store 42 00:02:46,660 --> 00:02:50,620 name, or, you know, things that people visual things. And I 43 00:02:50,620 --> 00:02:54,700 think, okay, so there's intellectual property. Is that 44 00:02:54,700 --> 00:02:58,600 the like umbrella of all these things? Okay, so trademarks, and 45 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:02,580 then copyrights, and then what else is there? Copyright is like 46 00:03:02,580 --> 00:03:05,940 for books and things, right? And papers and words, 47 00:03:05,940 --> 00:03:09,300 Celeste Reumert: yes, and this is So, this is my book, and I 48 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:11,940 have a copyright. Control your own 49 00:03:11,940 --> 00:03:16,140 Janice Porter: copyright. It's more, okay, perfect. It needs 50 00:03:16,140 --> 00:03:17,400 updating, yeah. 51 00:03:18,300 --> 00:03:20,600 Celeste Reumert: But this, this is my book, and it's my it's 52 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,720 actually my life's work, and what I've done also, because I'm 53 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:28,100 me, I've put my trademark on every single page. 54 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:32,180 Janice Porter: Ah, okay. And for our listeners, the trademark 55 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:37,040 that Celeste has is like her shield. It's like, it's almost 56 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,540 like a shield. So she has, it's unique, and therefore it was 57 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,060 able to be trademarked, and that's what I'm seeing. And her 58 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:47,680 company name is Grand IPR, correct? Yes, that is correct. 59 00:03:47,740 --> 00:03:51,280 Okay, so we've got, we've got content would be under 60 00:03:51,580 --> 00:03:53,500 copyright. Is that correct? 61 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:57,760 Celeste Reumert: Yes, and so. And it also covers films and it 62 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:01,500 covers photographs and it covers sound recording and 63 00:04:01,500 --> 00:04:07,080 architecture. And actually, in France, they are quite adamant 64 00:04:07,140 --> 00:04:13,560 about upholding rights to certain structures. So the 65 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:17,460 Eiffel Tower, for instance, even though it was built back in the 66 00:04:17,460 --> 00:04:22,460 1800s there is now a light installation on it. And if you 67 00:04:22,460 --> 00:04:26,780 do not have specific permission, you may photograph it, but you 68 00:04:26,780 --> 00:04:33,620 may not use it for purposes you have to obtain permit. Oh, 69 00:04:33,620 --> 00:04:35,840 Janice Porter: interesting. But how do they how do they monitor 70 00:04:35,840 --> 00:04:36,200 that? 71 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:39,860 Celeste Reumert: I don't know how they monitor that. I just 72 00:04:39,860 --> 00:04:44,980 know that that's how, how they, they behave in France, right? 73 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:49,600 Janice Porter: Interesting. So, okay, so that actually interests 74 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:53,620 me in that you live where, in London, right? Or no, I live 75 00:04:53,620 --> 00:04:55,960 Celeste Reumert: in England. I live in North Lacher, but my 76 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,120 business is registered in London, right? 77 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,200 Janice Porter: So, but, and you're, you. Have lived in, I 78 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:03,180 think you're Danish. Is that correct? Or you've lived in 79 00:05:03,180 --> 00:05:04,140 Denmark, you went to 80 00:05:04,140 --> 00:05:06,120 Celeste Reumert: school, and I was born in Denmark, correct? 81 00:05:06,180 --> 00:05:11,820 And I studied the law in Denmark, and I always felt that 82 00:05:11,820 --> 00:05:18,540 I wanted to move sort of beyond the little, little areas that 83 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:23,420 Denmark is. Denmark is. Denmark is a very, very small economic 84 00:05:23,420 --> 00:05:28,040 area, even though it's a strong one, there are only 7 million 85 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:32,300 people in all of Denmark. So like, Paris is like twice as big 86 00:05:32,540 --> 00:05:33,380 Paris alone, 87 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:38,840 Janice Porter: you know, so are things different in Europe than 88 00:05:38,840 --> 00:05:42,580 they are in North America when it comes to trademark and 89 00:05:42,580 --> 00:05:45,940 copyright. Do you know, or is it just usually that it with this 90 00:05:45,940 --> 00:05:47,680 type of thing? It's the same worldwide. 91 00:05:48,700 --> 00:05:50,800 Celeste Reumert: The really, really excellent thing for me is 92 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,980 it's more or less the same worldwide. So that makes my life 93 00:05:53,980 --> 00:06:00,120 so much easier. And and, yeah, people do? 94 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:07,440 Janice Porter: People? Do people apply for trademarks in multiple 95 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:08,400 countries? 96 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,220 Celeste Reumert: Yes, there is no such thing as a global 97 00:06:11,220 --> 00:06:14,400 trademark that does not exist. So even the big brands that we 98 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,400 think of as a global trademark, such as Apple, for instance, 99 00:06:17,460 --> 00:06:19,620 yes, is not a global trademark. They 100 00:06:19,620 --> 00:06:22,100 Janice Porter: have to have the trademark in every country that 101 00:06:22,100 --> 00:06:23,240 they sell, and they 102 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:25,280 Celeste Reumert: don't, they don't even have it every single 103 00:06:25,280 --> 00:06:28,760 country, because there will be countries where it's deemed on, 104 00:06:28,820 --> 00:06:32,780 on worthwhile for them or not worthwhile. That was a funny 105 00:06:32,780 --> 00:06:33,500 word I made up. 106 00:06:35,060 --> 00:06:38,600 Janice Porter: Yeah, not worthwhile, yeah. So, yeah. Oh, 107 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:42,280 interesting. Okay, that I didn't, I wouldn't have thought 108 00:06:42,280 --> 00:06:48,880 of so you, you have, you have a couple of comments here on, I 109 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,880 think it might be a workshop that you do, but you're talking 110 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:55,540 about what people need to know, about how to protect their their 111 00:06:55,540 --> 00:06:59,980 content, their copyright, their cash flow, their credibility and 112 00:06:59,980 --> 00:07:04,620 their confidentiality. And so those are all interesting to me. 113 00:07:04,620 --> 00:07:08,220 So how do you copyright your cash or, how do you protect your 114 00:07:08,340 --> 00:07:09,720 cash flow? First of all, 115 00:07:10,860 --> 00:07:13,920 Celeste Reumert: so these are all all topics that I touch on 116 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:17,940 in the upcoming event I did. I actually wrapped it last week, 117 00:07:17,940 --> 00:07:22,580 and I'm doing it again in November on the 25th so it's 118 00:07:22,580 --> 00:07:27,080 five days, and these are 30 minute sessions, and there is a 119 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,920 mystery gift for the people who attend. To be eligible, they 120 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:37,580 have to be there all five days. And it's it's a really great and 121 00:07:37,580 --> 00:07:41,500 fun event, because people come with different backgrounds and 122 00:07:41,500 --> 00:07:46,000 different sort of issues and different experiences, and so 123 00:07:46,660 --> 00:07:46,780 are 124 00:07:46,780 --> 00:07:48,880 Janice Porter: they learning? It's mostly to learn about how 125 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:51,880 to trademark something, or whether what they have is is 126 00:07:52,060 --> 00:07:54,340 worthy of being trademarked. It 127 00:07:54,340 --> 00:07:56,620 Celeste Reumert: is to learn what type of intellectual 128 00:07:56,620 --> 00:08:01,380 property they have. First of all, okay, because all of, all 129 00:08:01,380 --> 00:08:04,740 of so all of the intellectual property goes hand in hand to 130 00:08:04,740 --> 00:08:07,560 form a stronger shield of protection, as I always say, Oh, 131 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:13,440 okay. And actually, people have a tendency to push intellectual 132 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:15,720 property to the backs of their minds because it sounds so 133 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:20,480 complex. And yes, it is complex. However, for me, it is not 134 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:26,480 complex, and I absolutely love it. And I love these events that 135 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,600 I'm doing so much that I will just keep doing them, because 136 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:35,360 they are so educational for people, and they just love them. 137 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:40,720 I got some really, really great testimonials. So I just, I just 138 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:44,320 know that this is part of what I'm meant to be doing moving 139 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:49,540 forward. So, you know, there's no question about that. And it 140 00:08:49,540 --> 00:08:52,240 is also important that people understand that they can have 141 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:55,600 different types of intellectual property that can affect their 142 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:57,640 cash flow if they don't protect it. 143 00:08:58,660 --> 00:09:02,100 Janice Porter: Well, I think what comes to my mind is what 144 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:06,480 the big, huge changes that happened a few years ago in the 145 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:14,040 music industry, and how artists and songwriters and so on really 146 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:19,200 had to step up their protection of their properties. And we saw 147 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:19,860 Taylor 148 00:09:19,860 --> 00:09:25,160 Celeste Reumert: Swift, she all of her own work, yeah, 149 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:28,400 Janice Porter: because somebody else was owned. Her property, 150 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:31,520 right? And intellectual property, intellectual property, 151 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:34,460 yes, her intellectual property, yeah. And so she chose to do 152 00:09:34,460 --> 00:09:37,280 that, but, and that's a huge undertaking and expense in 153 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:40,360 itself, but then she has a license to print money anyway. 154 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:45,160 But anyway, that's, she's, she's another story. However, she's 155 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:48,100 Celeste Reumert: an interesting lady. And, yeah, she's got loads 156 00:09:48,100 --> 00:09:49,360 of trademarks, by the way. 157 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,900 Janice Porter: Yeah, interesting. So, so there's 158 00:09:52,900 --> 00:09:57,340 that. And then I think the rise of intellectual property 159 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:02,700 attorneys rose as well. Because it became, it has become, with 160 00:10:02,940 --> 00:10:07,560 the way the world is a bigger issue now we've got chat GPT and 161 00:10:07,560 --> 00:10:10,320 all of the things that go along with that. There's going to be 162 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:15,240 more laws and more new ways of looking at things to protect 163 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,060 people's intellectual property, right? 164 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:22,640 Celeste Reumert: And also, the thing is, with regards to AI, I 165 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:26,900 use it because it's to me who experiences life with dyslexia. 166 00:10:27,740 --> 00:10:31,520 It was a label I got right after I got my master's degree in law. 167 00:10:32,780 --> 00:10:42,880 It can help me immensely to get stuff with the help of AI and 168 00:10:43,060 --> 00:10:49,900 and the more creative we are, and the more sort of we refine 169 00:10:49,900 --> 00:10:54,040 it, the more protectable it actually becomes. At the 170 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:56,860 beginning, I thought that that's there's no way that this is 171 00:10:56,860 --> 00:11:00,360 protectable. And actually, I heard a podcast from Denmark the 172 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,800 other day, where they said that the more you are creative with 173 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:09,060 what you put into it. And that's the important thing to know 174 00:11:09,060 --> 00:11:13,200 about, AI, because when we started out using it, I started 175 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:16,980 I had no idea how to use it. I just, you know, put whatever in. 176 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,300 And so the result came back really, really poor. But the 177 00:11:20,300 --> 00:11:25,820 better we get at romping the AI tool to work for us, the more it 178 00:11:25,820 --> 00:11:29,000 gets to sound, I guess, and the more it gets protectable, 179 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:34,340 actually. So that's really, really interesting. And, and 180 00:11:34,340 --> 00:11:40,720 even, yeah, even, even photographers can also use AI 181 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:45,400 prompts and stuff like that. So it is about being as creative. I 182 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,820 think there was something in that podcast, unfortunately, in 183 00:11:48,820 --> 00:11:52,060 some Danish. So unless people understand Danish, they won't 184 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:55,540 understand what's going on. But there, I think there was 185 00:11:55,540 --> 00:11:59,440 something about a Vogue photo shoot where the photographer had 186 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,400 been really, really creative, and put in loads and loads and 187 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,640 loads and loads and loads of information, and each time 188 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:09,480 tweaking it so that it became more and more refined, and that 189 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:15,060 then was a Vogue cover, and that was actually protectable. And 190 00:12:15,060 --> 00:12:17,400 this is really important to know and understand, because 191 00:12:17,460 --> 00:12:20,600 otherwise we can think that, oh no, because it's an AI tool, I'm 192 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,780 not protected, actually, yes, we are. So 193 00:12:23,780 --> 00:12:25,880 Janice Porter: you're saying that they, this photographer 194 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:29,360 created the shoot through AI. I'm 195 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:31,880 Celeste Reumert: not entirely sure how that happened. I just 196 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:33,680 know that the prots that 197 00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:37,220 Janice Porter: were put in, well, they do do visuals on it, 198 00:12:37,220 --> 00:12:40,040 so it makes sense. Yeah, I think that 199 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:42,160 Celeste Reumert: it was the visual for it. I'm not sure it 200 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:46,960 was the actual photo shoot, but it was definitely a vote that 201 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:49,780 Janice Porter: was probably an artificial photo shoot. It was 202 00:12:49,780 --> 00:12:53,440 done through AI, yeah, interesting, yeah. And you never 203 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:57,160 know anymore. Like, you know, I'm a LinkedIn trainer, and I've 204 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,780 been doing some training lately with a group of people that are 205 00:13:00,780 --> 00:13:05,460 in this corporation. And I always talk about, you know, 206 00:13:05,460 --> 00:13:09,420 their headshots, and three of the last people that I've talked 207 00:13:09,420 --> 00:13:15,360 to have all used AI photos. And I'm like, really, like, I didn't 208 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:18,240 know two of them were but the third one, I knew the person, so 209 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:22,160 I knew it was something a bit off to me, but I can still 210 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:26,960 recognize it, but I it some of it's weird, still weird, like 211 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,500 and of course, the people are saying to me, well, it saved me 212 00:13:30,500 --> 00:13:34,340 a lot of money and time to do it that way. But, you know, I don't 213 00:13:34,340 --> 00:13:37,340 want to put people out of a job yet. Thank you. So I say go to a 214 00:13:37,340 --> 00:13:41,080 photographer. But I just thought it was interesting that, you 215 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,380 know, we're using it for many different things, and in good 216 00:13:44,380 --> 00:13:47,260 ways and in bad ways. So that's where the trademarks and the 217 00:13:47,260 --> 00:13:50,920 copyrights and all of that comes into play as well right now. And 218 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:51,340 we also 219 00:13:51,340 --> 00:13:55,300 Celeste Reumert: have to be very, very aware of deep fake, 220 00:13:55,300 --> 00:14:04,020 because it has become so mind blowing that I saw a short video 221 00:14:04,020 --> 00:14:07,620 clip. I think it was on LinkedIn, where or YouTube. I 222 00:14:07,620 --> 00:14:12,120 can't remember exactly where, but it you saw like at the front 223 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:17,040 there was a female, and then up in the corner you saw a man, and 224 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:21,620 it was the man's voice that came out of the female's mouth. And 225 00:14:21,620 --> 00:14:27,920 so it was just showing how deep fake has become. So they can 226 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:29,720 really manipulate. Yes, 227 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,060 Janice Porter: I've seen some examples of manipulation as 228 00:14:32,060 --> 00:14:37,040 well. In fact, Oprah did an interesting show on AI a couple 229 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,860 a few weeks ago, and they had some different examples of 230 00:14:39,860 --> 00:14:43,720 things that they showed it was quite, quite devastating. It was 231 00:14:44,260 --> 00:14:49,000 kind of eye opening, but scary in a lot of ways, for sure. So 232 00:14:50,380 --> 00:14:53,440 you've talked a little bit about, and this is sort of an 233 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:57,580 aside, but you've talked twice now about dyslexia and being 234 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:04,380 diagnosed. As an adult with dyslexia. So if you went all 235 00:15:04,380 --> 00:15:07,140 through school and all through your life to that point not 236 00:15:07,140 --> 00:15:11,100 knowing what was wrong, but you struggled with reading, I'm 237 00:15:11,100 --> 00:15:12,960 said, I'm guessing and 238 00:15:13,740 --> 00:15:18,240 Celeste Reumert: not reading homework, I hated homework the 239 00:15:18,420 --> 00:15:18,540 way. 240 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:20,720 Janice Porter: You don't have to be you don't have to hate have 241 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,600 dyslexia to hate homework. So how did it 242 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,000 Celeste Reumert: affect you? I didn't thrive with it. I didn't. 243 00:15:26,060 --> 00:15:32,060 I didn't enjoy it. I didn't, yeah, I didn't like it. And I, 244 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:36,020 you know, I don't know why. I just didn't, didn't enjoy it, 245 00:15:36,020 --> 00:15:41,500 and and I'm managed to go through, like, the majority of 246 00:15:41,500 --> 00:15:45,640 my schooling, and as I say, I started studying the law at 35 247 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:51,460 so there was a gap between. I finished whatever I was doing 248 00:15:51,460 --> 00:15:55,600 before and then started studying the law. And I just had no idea. 249 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,320 I just thought that I was incredibly slow when it and I 250 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:05,400 didn't understand how to structure an assignment. Even 251 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:07,740 while I was at university, I didn't understand how to 252 00:16:07,740 --> 00:16:14,760 structure it properly. And so that was I didn't get very good 253 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,820 grades, except in intellectual property 254 00:16:19,020 --> 00:16:21,320 Janice Porter: well, but with from my understanding I was a 255 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:24,740 teacher, and from my understanding dyslexia is seeing 256 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:29,120 letters and numbers backwards and mixing them up. In some 257 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:29,600 cases, I 258 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:31,820 Celeste Reumert: don't do that necessarily. Just there are just 259 00:16:31,820 --> 00:16:35,900 words. They're just words that I cannot re spell, like 260 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:41,920 Switzerland and Danish, I cannot spell it. Yeah, there are things 261 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:46,960 the word necessary in English, I've had to figure out a way to 262 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:50,140 say the word to myself so that I can spell it. 263 00:16:51,340 --> 00:16:54,700 Janice Porter: Okay. So spelling is an issue. Yes, yeah. And 264 00:16:54,700 --> 00:16:58,480 grammar is an issue, okay, okay. Well, and how many languages do 265 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:03,000 you speak? Six? Yes, see, so no wonder. I mean, it's got to be 266 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,480 confusing. I mean, nobody speaks that. Only Europeans are the 267 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:08,700 people that I know that speak more than one, that were two 268 00:17:08,700 --> 00:17:11,940 languages at the most. I'm so envious, and I could never start 269 00:17:11,940 --> 00:17:15,600 at this late age, but it's amazing to me. But that has to 270 00:17:15,660 --> 00:17:20,600 come into play, because, you know, actually I saw, I saw a 271 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:25,280 very funny bit on Instagram where this guy was showing 272 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:29,840 words, and he said, like, B, O M, B, bomb. And then he put the 273 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:33,800 next word up, C, O M, B, that should be calm, right? No, it's 274 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,200 calm. And then he went through a whole list of them. It was 275 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:40,060 hysterical, because the English language is not easy for for a 276 00:17:40,060 --> 00:17:43,480 foreigner to to understand spelling and and reading wise. 277 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:47,080 So I would imagine that would play into you learn if you've 278 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:50,260 been able to learn so many different languages, are you 279 00:17:50,260 --> 00:17:50,680 sure them 280 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:54,520 Celeste Reumert: since I was a little child? Yeah, I think that 281 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,400 has something to do with it, because, and I've always loved 282 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:01,080 languages. And actually my father, well, you know, both my 283 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:03,960 father and my mother and my maternal grandmother, they would 284 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,320 read stories to me, so maybe that's why I love reading. I 285 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:12,180 don't know. However, there was one story in particular that my 286 00:18:12,180 --> 00:18:16,140 father was reading where there was this young girl who 287 00:18:16,140 --> 00:18:18,720 collected words. So I started collecting 288 00:18:20,100 --> 00:18:23,840 Janice Porter: I love it. That's great. Well, my granddaughter, 289 00:18:24,260 --> 00:18:26,540 I'm going off on a little tangent here, but my 290 00:18:26,540 --> 00:18:29,960 granddaughter, who's five, couple weeks ago, was over and 291 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,860 said she wanted to watch this little five year old special 292 00:18:33,860 --> 00:18:37,280 show Paw Patrol, which is big in the United States and Canada. 293 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,800 And I couldn't find it as well. Okay, so I couldn't find what 294 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:46,180 she wanted on Netflix, so we found it, and it was on the 295 00:18:46,180 --> 00:18:48,640 French channel. And I said, Well, you have to watch it in 296 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,880 French. She said, Okay, grandma, so she'd seen it before anyway, 297 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:54,820 so she knew exactly what was going on, and she watched it in 298 00:18:54,820 --> 00:18:57,640 French. So she came over last week and she said, Could I watch 299 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:01,500 that show in French again, grandma? So I thought that was 300 00:19:01,500 --> 00:19:03,780 really funny. And that's when they're going to pick it up, 301 00:19:03,780 --> 00:19:07,260 right? That's when they're going to pay attention to that. So I 302 00:19:07,260 --> 00:19:15,300 thought that was really funny. Okay, I digressed. And okay, so 303 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:19,800 if I would imagine what the answer will be to this, but I'm 304 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:25,340 going to ask you anyway. So do people talk to you about the 305 00:19:25,340 --> 00:19:29,120 names of their companies and whether and then, do you often 306 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:33,440 suggest or recommend a tweak to make it trademarkable? 307 00:19:34,940 --> 00:19:39,260 Celeste Reumert: Yes, they do, and that's what the asks list. 308 00:19:39,260 --> 00:19:43,960 Anything session is for so that they can ask me all the 309 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:47,500 questions that are like, Oh, I don't know what to do about 310 00:19:47,500 --> 00:19:52,180 this. Or I don't know, is this even something that can become 311 00:19:52,180 --> 00:19:55,600 registered as a trademark or, you know, and in those sessions, 312 00:19:55,840 --> 00:20:01,320 I can then say, I recommend that you can. Something different, 313 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,080 and depending on how many questions they have, because 314 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:09,300 they may have many questions that may eat up all the time 315 00:20:09,300 --> 00:20:13,560 because it's a 15 minute session, however, if it's just 316 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:17,100 the one question, then we can sit and have a conversation 317 00:20:17,100 --> 00:20:23,240 about what I would suggest, like I I would never suggest to 318 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,760 someone that they use their personal name for their 319 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:30,560 business. I do say that. Sorry. I knew you were going to say 320 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:37,640 that, yeah, because I there was a Danish clothes designer that 321 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:43,060 I'm connected to on LinkedIn. We weren't we weren't friends. When 322 00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:48,880 I heard her story, because it was part of the case study, what 323 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,580 I was studying in the law. However, she had a business, and 324 00:20:51,580 --> 00:20:55,120 she was using her personal name for her label, and to cut a 325 00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:59,380 really long and tedious story short, the label, her business 326 00:20:59,380 --> 00:21:03,120 went bust, and the label was sold to a third party, and then 327 00:21:03,180 --> 00:21:08,280 she continued using her name as her label, and then she was 328 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:14,760 infringing upon Yeah, and so the High Court of Denmark has 329 00:21:15,180 --> 00:21:19,260 sentenced her to find herself a new name, and so it's only on 330 00:21:19,260 --> 00:21:23,060 social media in her own home, she is still the same person. 331 00:21:23,060 --> 00:21:27,020 She can still use her birth name, but on social media. And 332 00:21:27,020 --> 00:21:32,360 so she chose the name Lou, because in in Danish, l, I, V 333 00:21:32,360 --> 00:21:36,740 means life, and she reasoned that she was not dead, she was 334 00:21:36,740 --> 00:21:39,920 still alive. So that's why she chose that, and she now has a 335 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:44,620 completely different business name, and she's doing really, 336 00:21:44,620 --> 00:21:48,640 really well, and she's massively successful, and she's absolutely 337 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:50,980 a wonderful person. And actually, something similar 338 00:21:50,980 --> 00:21:54,760 happened to a designer here in the UK called karen millen. I 339 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:59,680 haven't got the exact details of her story, but it's something 340 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:04,380 similar. So I always say, be careful of using your own 341 00:22:04,380 --> 00:22:08,760 personal name, because it may actually have severe 342 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:17,160 consequences. And, you know, I see it as my, my job to protect 343 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:21,020 people as best I can. And even in those 15 minutes I will, I 344 00:22:21,020 --> 00:22:22,760 will do my best to do that. That's 345 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,220 Janice Porter: very interesting. Those are good stories, good 346 00:22:25,220 --> 00:22:36,920 examples. Mm, hmm. So, of course, I did that. I chose my 347 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:42,460 name because I learned that. You know, I was a one. I was a solo 348 00:22:42,460 --> 00:22:46,480 printer, and I wanted people to recognize me for they. Wanted 349 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,820 them to know my name, because I'm all about relationships and 350 00:22:48,820 --> 00:22:51,280 people, and so I wanted to make sure that you meet. But you 351 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:55,300 know, if I had to do it again, I'd probably do something 352 00:22:55,300 --> 00:22:57,820 different. But I don't know it's too late for me now, but that's 353 00:22:57,820 --> 00:23:03,780 okay. It's all good. So, but it definitely is an interesting and 354 00:23:04,140 --> 00:23:10,260 we ought to take more we are. We ought to pay more attention to 355 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:15,360 trademarking and register and copyrights and things like that, 356 00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:20,840 because in this, this is the word litigious, litigious world 357 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:22,940 where people are suing people left and right. 358 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:25,940 Celeste Reumert: We do have to, and especially in North America. 359 00:23:25,940 --> 00:23:29,840 Oh, I know, yeah, very, very particular to to North America. 360 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:31,760 I know they are, well, more more 361 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,520 Janice Porter: the US than Canada. Canada is we're all too 362 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:38,000 polite. Okay, sorry, I'm in us, so that's okay. I'm not, I'm not 363 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:42,100 offended, for sure, but it is something that it sounds as 364 00:23:42,100 --> 00:23:48,040 though having an expert guide one through it is also the best 365 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:53,560 way to go. So okay, you live in the UK. You speak a lot of 366 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,260 Denmark because you went to school. You did some schooling 367 00:23:56,260 --> 00:23:59,140 there. Do you ever come over here to North America? Have you 368 00:23:59,140 --> 00:24:02,100 ever been over to North America, not yet, 369 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:06,360 Celeste Reumert: and I'm not averse to it. I would like to, 370 00:24:07,140 --> 00:24:13,560 and I obviously also do read up about the legislation in both 371 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:19,320 Canada and America, because in Canada actually the trademark 372 00:24:20,340 --> 00:24:24,020 protection is a tiny bit longer than in most of the countries, 373 00:24:24,020 --> 00:24:27,680 because in Canada, it is 15 years, and most other countries 374 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:31,820 have a 10 year period. So in Canada, it's a 15 year renewal 375 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:35,780 cycle, and in other countries, it's a 10 year, uh, renewal 376 00:24:35,780 --> 00:24:41,380 cycle. And in America, after five years, you have to provide 377 00:24:41,740 --> 00:24:43,300 proof of usage. 378 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:48,820 Janice Porter: Oh, really, yes, what? Or they take it away, or, 379 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:53,440 or what it could Oh, interesting, yes. What's an 380 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:57,040 example of that? So you like you would need, you would start a 381 00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,680 company and get it trademarked, the name trademarks, but then 382 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,280 you may. Maybe don't do anything for a couple of years with it. 383 00:25:02,940 --> 00:25:06,300 Celeste Reumert: I don't have any examples of people that 384 00:25:06,300 --> 00:25:09,000 haven't done that. I have examples of of companies that 385 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:13,860 haven't upheld their their rights. So Sony, Oh no, what? 386 00:25:13,860 --> 00:25:17,820 Yeah, Sony had Walkman. Walkman was a trademark. It's no longer 387 00:25:17,820 --> 00:25:21,440 a trademark. Escalator used to be a trademark. Oh, 388 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:22,700 Janice Porter: interesting escalator, 389 00:25:23,660 --> 00:25:29,060 Celeste Reumert: yeah. Um, I know that Xerox is very, very, 390 00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:32,600 uh, aware of people saying that they're xeroxing stuff, because 391 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:37,940 that is not, that is not right. You, you can copy something with 392 00:25:37,940 --> 00:25:40,480 the photocopier, but you don't Xerox it. 393 00:25:40,780 --> 00:25:42,760 Janice Porter: And that's like, Kleenex too. Then I guess, 394 00:25:44,020 --> 00:25:47,020 Celeste Reumert: I don't know if Kleenex has fallen in. I haven't 395 00:25:47,020 --> 00:25:51,280 looked that up, but I, you know, I had, I had a few examples in 396 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:56,500 my book, but, yeah, those are the ones that I can remember. I 397 00:25:56,500 --> 00:26:02,100 think, yeah, escalator nylon was a trademark as well. So it's 398 00:26:02,100 --> 00:26:06,360 just really, really important that you have your trademark and 399 00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:09,000 then you register it, but you cannot leave it alone. You need 400 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:15,180 to enforce it as well, and that is also part of the service that 401 00:26:15,180 --> 00:26:17,040 I deliver. Okay, 402 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,360 Janice Porter: excellent. All right. So couple of last 403 00:26:20,360 --> 00:26:25,280 questions for you, please, Celeste, the first one is, what 404 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:29,360 is your best piece of advice that you would give my audience 405 00:26:29,420 --> 00:26:32,780 around what you do? What would you like to leave with them? 406 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:39,080 Celeste Reumert: I want them to reflect on whatever it is that 407 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:45,760 they have created, and really know and understand that it has 408 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:52,060 real value in the world, and as such, it does actually need 409 00:26:53,020 --> 00:26:56,920 tender love and care in the form of either copyright protection 410 00:26:57,100 --> 00:27:03,420 or, well, not either, or actually both, so that they 411 00:27:03,420 --> 00:27:09,720 protect it. And if it is an object, like an iPhone for for 412 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:15,060 Apple, you know, it's not just the item itself. It is the whole 413 00:27:15,060 --> 00:27:19,620 experience. So the box itself, the way things are organized 414 00:27:19,620 --> 00:27:26,420 inside the box, really, all of that has been thought off, and 415 00:27:26,420 --> 00:27:32,480 they are protecting that. So in Denmark, they refer to something 416 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:37,580 called trade dress, and it's, it's, it's the packaging of how 417 00:27:37,580 --> 00:27:42,400 something is presented to you as the consumer. So there are so 418 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:46,960 many things to consider once you have because you know, if you 419 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:54,400 have a signature program or a new product, or you have made a 420 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:58,780 new invention, like, say, you've had a massive breakthrough in 421 00:27:58,780 --> 00:28:05,640 medical invention that deserves a protection with a patent. So 422 00:28:05,940 --> 00:28:10,140 it is. It's about sitting back and thinking, Okay, this thing 423 00:28:10,140 --> 00:28:15,960 that I have put all my time, energy, love and maybe even 424 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:21,680 tears and blood and sweat into it deserves me looking properly 425 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:27,320 after it. So I'm going to talk to somebody like Celeste and and 426 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,560 have her help me in this situation, you know, 427 00:28:30,980 --> 00:28:34,760 Janice Porter: yeah, that's excellent advice. And I'm always 428 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:40,780 curious. I'm a curious person, and I'm I'm curious to know your 429 00:28:40,780 --> 00:28:46,240 thoughts on curiosity. So do you think that curiosity is innate 430 00:28:46,540 --> 00:28:51,640 or learned? And part two, what are you most curious about 431 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,820 today? So part one, first, 432 00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:00,720 Celeste Reumert: I think maybe it is innate, because there are 433 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,840 people that are just not that curious, and there are people 434 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:09,060 that, you know almost feel that they themselves are all they 435 00:29:09,060 --> 00:29:12,240 ever need. And you know, that's fine. I'm not judging anyone 436 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:18,840 here. It's just I think that curiosity is what helps us to be 437 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:25,220 creative and innovative. And what am I curious about this 438 00:29:25,220 --> 00:29:28,340 conversation today, I was curious about where it would 439 00:29:28,340 --> 00:29:32,420 take us, and I've totally loved this conversation because it has 440 00:29:32,420 --> 00:29:34,880 taken us in many different directions. And that's what I 441 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,780 love. That's what Curiosity will do for you. It will lead you 442 00:29:38,780 --> 00:29:41,680 down different paths, and then you come back, and then you go 443 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,320 down another path. I totally love that. Oh, 444 00:29:44,380 --> 00:29:46,000 Janice Porter: excellent. I'm glad that you enjoyed it, 445 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,180 because I guess that's my crazy mind and what happens and and my 446 00:29:49,180 --> 00:29:52,360 curiosity takes over. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you for 447 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:56,380 being here today. It was most enjoyable and informative as 448 00:29:56,380 --> 00:29:59,140 well. In many ways, I appreciated that, and I hope my 449 00:29:59,140 --> 00:30:03,480 audience does. Two and to that point, thank you for being here. 450 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,320 And please let me know. Let us know if you like what you heard. 451 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:11,640 And please feel free to get hold of Celeste. Check out her book. 452 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:16,800 I will leave the information to find her in the show notes. And 453 00:30:17,340 --> 00:30:21,620 remember to stay connected and be remembered. Thank you for 454 00:30:21,620 --> 00:30:23,540 having me. You're welcome.