Hi. Welcome back to Become a Calm Mama. I'm your host. I'm Darlyn

Childress. I am a life and parenting coach. And today,

we are really lucky. I have invited TJ Matan

on today. She's a social worker, psychotherapist, a coach, and

an educator. And, TJ, you on your

bio, you say you focus on helping adults Learn to liberate their

mind and bodies through play. I love that so much.

Yeah. So tell us a little bit about your business and

how you help Adults learn to tap into their

play. Yeah. So history wise, I have

been a psychotherapist for 10 years, and I focus a lot Pretty much

exclusively on developmental attachment trauma and

maternal mental health, and so that was kind of my background. And

Couple years into my practice, I fell in love with working with moms of

toddlers because,

was hitting a lot of my clients that

I wasn't hearing about in research

and in the education around postpartum mental health care.

And the thing I really loved about working with them and what I saw as

a pattern was How much the, like, expressive

nature of toddlerhood, created

waves, New waves of postpartum anxiety and depression,

and I sort of, like, took this deep dive into, like, what

is play. Like, what is it that holds certain adults back

from engaging in this period of time with their

kids? Mhmm. And So I've ended

up kind of I didn't know it at the time, but now

10 years later, I specialize in helping adults

Reengage the play drive. And this is so

and I I love my work so much. And every time I talk about

it, it is Very quickly, people orient the word play

towards children. Right? Or they think that we're gonna play with our

kids. But my goal is to help adults actually understand

and reengage their individual play drive that

exists in our Every human and mammal

bio like, biological system. I love

it. I love it so much, and I think It's so

true. And my goal in this podcast, it's called Become a Calm

Mama. Yeah. And it really is tapping into

Our own nervous system, our own regulation, our own

well-being, and a a factor

in that is is fun, is joy, It's playfulness

and lightness. And I think that

what you're offering is so beautiful because It

does get stuck. You know, we do get stuck in

the adulting as we think we think of play as, like, something for

childhood or something For children only. And then we're, like, have to

be heavy in adult world and Yeah. You know, figure out how

to write, We don't balance our budgets and whatever Yeah. To

get kids to get in the car. And I think well, I want people to

understand that play is not something we have to, like, go out and do. It's

like an orientation that we can take to

like, in our adulting world, and

Play is is a it's it's a homeostatically

regulated state similar to hunger and thirst that

if We deny it. Our bodies will,

like, push forward the energy. And one of the things that

I I've explored a lot is, like, how mom

rage is related to, like, deprived

play states. Because in some ways, when and I'm

curious kind of you know, I don't know if we wanna chat about this here,

but, like, for me, when I experienced, like, Yelling and screaming

and rage in my body, it helped me feel more powerful.

It helped me feel more in control.

It helped me feel kind of embodied

again. Mhmm. Right? And these are things you get from play

are feeling powerful, Embodied,

in control, back in that driver's seat

feel, Capable.

Right? Yep. Yep. Those the hard part about mom rage is, like, it often, like,

ends up with, like, a wave of, like, that shame and embarrassment. But for

me, When I was struggling with my own, like, kind of,

like, ragey tendencies, I

The greatest intervention for me was learning

about kinetic and competitive play

Because it tapping more into my kinetic and competitive

needs actually released so much of

that withheld energy in my body

and helped me shift and has helped a lot of my clients shift out of

that activated state

in much more, like, organic ways

and learning Every day, how

to, like, kind of microexpress

out, Like, that

kinetic energy that is there in rage. Yeah. I love

it because you're exactly right that it's like Sometimes we talk

about emotion as energy in motion. And

Yeah. That I talk about yelling and rage as a stress response.

Right? It's like a a way to release some of that charged energy.

And that if we have other tools to manage our stress and

our stress response, We may not we won't be as activated

in that way. Or if we feel activated towards our kids and their

misbehavior or Just the overwhelm of life that we

don't have to result to the same strategies that Yeah. You know, of rage

and things like that. Before we get into the different types of play, I wanted

to talk to you a little bit about this, like,

developmental attachment trauma, I think you called it. Yeah. And, like, talk

about, Oh, if you could, how we get detached

as as adults? How how we get detached from our need

for play, or how does that What happens there? Yeah. And then

Definitely. How does that show up, you know, for us? So play

is inherently a pretty vulnerable state Because it requires

us to kind of abandon power dynamics and power hierarchy.

Right? Like, I can't go play basketball with LeBron James. Like, that's not

a Solid play buddy dynamic.

He could play on his knees. We could set up new rules to equal the

playing field. And in order for it to be playful, We have to change the

power dynamics so that we can play together.

Right? And so one of the things that's really vulnerable

about play is there is inherently

a powerlessness in it. There's an abandoning

of I'm in control. Right? If we go back to

even kind of primary kid style play,

like, at some point when we build a tower, it will fall. Like, the

point of play is to test the limits. It is risk

taking. It's contingency testing, And so play is

inherently vulnerable because we are going to fail

pretty much every time. Like, that is the point of, like, of

play. And so play can get

interrupted by a ton of different things. And one is

how adults in our lives model

This, like, model response to failure. Right?

Like, oh my you know? Wow. You You worked

so hard on that tower. Like, you got it so tall. Like, I wonder how

tall you'll get it next time. Like, that builds kind of that resiliency. Be like,

oh, cool. Like, I didn't do anything wrong. I get to try again. Right?

We also have adults who are like, that's really loud. Could you keep it

down? Right. And then it's like, how do you quietly

crash a tower? Right? So you have to abandon your play and

find A different type of play that is okay for somebody else.

Right? And that does

happen. Like, there are Oh, Pardon. Times where I mean, it's

it's not always like, some of the moms are listening and like, well, wait. No.

Like, sometimes they're legit too loud. Like Oh, yeah. Or the time and place or

whatever it is. Yeah. So, yes, we have to have boundaries, but what

you're encouraging us all is to really think about, like,

how do we see the value of what they're doing and, like, See the

beauty of the play itself and can set a

boundary while still encouraging it within like, you can play within

this limit or whatever it is. But instead of shutting it down,

don't do that. That's too loud. That's not from the lens

that I teach, it's like, that's not from the con compassionate lens

or the connected lens of, like, what's driving this behavior. It's

the need for play, the need for fun, the need for attachment, things like

that. And more importantly, I want adults to think about, like,

what was the rest what was their learned response to

play? Mhmm. Mhmm. So less of like, less than this kind of, like,

hypervigilance about, like, how am I responding to play in my kids right now, but

what is my lived experience of people receiving my play?

Mhmm. Right? How often was I told I'm too loud? How often

was I told that my play was too big? How often was I told I

was a like, chaotic or too messy? Right.

And then gender wise,

the majority of girls lose play between the ages of 8 and

11, And this is because we shift culturally

into caring more about

we We build new types of social connections to our peers,

and peer relationships start to prioritize family

relationships that we're we start to externalize out of the family system.

So we have statistics, like 70% Girls drop out of

sports between the ages of 7 and 11.

Behavioral expectations to being well behaved,

kind, mannered Start to

Help dull. Like Yes. Like, so focused on others. Yeah.

Yeah. That this is a time that we Girls start to get

encouraged out of self connection Mhmm. And prioritizing

the other. And so, culturally,

Almost every woman has an experience of culturally being

pushed out of play because it is part of our social dynamics.

And then individually, we each have an individual experience of

what play was like in our own family systems, our own, like, kind

of micro culture in a way.

And these are things that then interrupt

how playful we are as an adult And

playful being not and I think when I say playful,

automatically think about, like, silly and,

humorous, but play is

play can be that, but that's not actually a quality of play.

Play is about being, like, interested, engaged,

curious, connected, And it can be

physically, intellectually, in our imagination.

It's not We think about play very

easily in this extroverted personality state, but I'm actually, like, a

very introverted player. Like, a lot of my play happens

In, like, in my internal, like, exploratory

system, I'm not somebody who's gonna get on stage and tell

jokes. I'm not the center Of the part like, the joker at

the party. Yeah. I I have said this for years.

I've not really connected it to what you're saying. But I I talk about

my brain as a playground. Mhmm. And,

one of my favorite places to hang out is in my brain. Yeah.

And it's like it brings me tons of joy, and it's really playful, and

it's very creative. And There I have so many,

workbooks that I've created over the years. Like Mhmm. It's it is just

pure play for me. It's fun. Yeah. It's really engaging. I'm really

Yeah. And I think of that way of, like, even,

like, cooking. Sometimes I'm cooking a meal and it's very playful and

it's interesting and I'm challenged by the recipe. And then other

times, it's just drudgery calories we've gotta eat.

Yeah. Totally. Yeah. So I I know I think Just me maybe giving

these examples of, like, where I find places of play that

aren't Yeah. What you're describing of, like, Hey,

everybody. Let's do karaoke or whatever. Yeah. But

even if we talk about cooking in the spectrum of cooking, like, I

I'm gonna take a gander that you're a very detail oriented player

between, like, loving the workbooks, loving coaching, like, kind of

in loving recipes. Right? That,

and that that may be something that is not That

is resonant to your style of play versus somebody else

who is gets no joy out of

recipes and needs to learn, like, More creative

cooking. Right? Mhmm. And that one of the things

that's, like, I think is so cool about play and I think what Helps

people understand play a little bit is that our play is like

it's like a blueprint. It is us. Right. It

is continuous throughout our lifetime. How it gets

expressed changes over our lifetime. So

If you are a detail oriented, like, kind of style

player here, you were probably a detail oriented style player as a

kid. Mhmm. Right? That there was Things like like really

well thought out, deep creative scene versus somebody

who was messy painting. Right? Yeah.

And so this is, like, I think what I love about helping adults understand is

that, like, this part of them is not gone. It's not

inaccessible. It is, like, There, it is waiting. It

when we reconnect with Play, it's like, oh god. Thank you so

much for coming home to me. Mhmm. It is this, like,

Incredible sense of, like, reconnecting with, like, our

core humanness in this, like, very nourishing,

Invigorating and enlivening way that then just

feeds on itself because, like, once we hit that play bone, we want

more. Mhmm. And there's nothing wrong with, like,

playing. Yeah. Like, finding play in all

the everyday ways of our life. For sure. One person's play

isn't gonna affect someone else's necessarily. Yeah. It's just who we are and

how we express our ourselves and our bodies and what they need. And, Yeah.

As you were talking, I was, like, thinking of little girl, Darlyn, and I was

like, no. I don't know if she really, like, created complex

Scenes, I I was just much more about my body. And Oh,

interesting. Yeah. And, like, other forms of play besides hanging out in my

brain Are really, like, hiking, paddle

boarding, being in nature. And I just think I've been doing a

little bit of internal family systems with myself, which I'm not gonna

derail. Sorry, everybody. Look it up. IFS. But I

recently discovered that part of me, like, the little playful person,

And she's just in a tree, and let's just like, she's climbing

trees and and being in her own head play

Playful. You know? So I was thinking as you're talking, I was like, no. Little

girl Darlyn was, like, playing outside and in trees. And

I I was thinking about the time I got the most in I don't know

if I I I was thinking we do not get in trouble, my sister and

I, but we were playing in the bathtub, and we were playing

wave. And Yeah. We called it wave, and we would just move our

bodies backward and forward in the bathtub, and it would create a wave.

We could see it. And then there would be less water,

so we would turn the water on and do it again. And nowhere

in our head did we know that the water was all flowing out of

the bathtub Of course. Into the, you know, hallway. And

my mom comes in, and she's like, what are the girls doing?

Yeah. And we had no clue. Our we were so absorbed in

the wave Absolutely. That we didn't see where the water was

going. Yeah. And I was just picturing myself as a little

girl, me just moving back and forth in that water and just, like, loving

that play. Yeah. So Yeah. A lot of what you're referencing

is, like, what I call in my work, kinetic play. Mhmm. You

know? Yeah. Let's talk about the different types of play. I'd love to hear that.

And one of the other things I just wanna connect with is that you hit

the nail on the head around is that play

It's a sign of, like, breaking of the self and the

outside world in a way where we're not

hyper observing ourselves. Like, that internal witness has turned

off, and, like, time kinda slows down.

There's this, like, sense of, like, Like containment

and protection that happens in play. So what makes

play really vulnerable is that we have to be trusting That there's

there's enough safety within our internal system

and in the external system to hold us in this state.

Yeah. To lose yourself, you have to feel safe, like, to to be Yeah. In

in immersed in one thing. That's

why, like, sleep. I always think about sleep, how vulnerable it is, and how much

we have to feel safe in order to actually fall asleep because otherwise, we're gonna

stay vigilant to protect ourselves. Yeah. Yeah. And so then that vigilance

comes in and play. For sure, I could see that. Yeah. And

it's interesting because sleep and play are both actually blended states in

the nervous system. So play is a blended state of

the fight and flight and the ventral state,

where That's part of why play is this activated. Like,

I'm a like, try me. Let's do this. Let's rumble. Right? And it's

got that feel to it, But it feels like safe

and connected and fun. Mhmm. Right? So there is

this blending of, like, this Bring it on. Feel Yeah.

That we feel in, that fight mode. Mhmm.

Yeah. So there's a lot of different ways to talk about play.

Stewart Brown talks about 8 play personalities, and I work a lot with that in

my work, where there is

Stuff like directorial play for people who love to plan

and execute things. There's things like kinetic play who

And I'm a kinetic player. Like, I always am talking with my hands because

story moves, like, through me, and kinetic is about, like, the experience

of the body. Like, competitors love rules. It's not actually

about winning. It's about, like, oh, give me a set of rules, and let me

see how much I can, like, get done within this set of rules. Right?

We have explorers who are really, like, interested

in, like, depth and width. We have things like collectors

where they're seeking out that next best thing. We

have jokers who are humorous and want to bring

vibrancy. This We have storytellers. So there's different

angles of play. We have people who love ritual play. There's

also, I think, one of the things I think is really powerful when I talk

with parents and moms is understanding that some people

really thrive as solo players, some people thrive as parallel

players, and some people, But, like, thrive as collaborative players.

And we wanna be able to do all of those in the connective spectrum, but

we all have a place that feels Easiest on us,

and I think reigniting play for adults is

really about finding that what is the lowest hanging fruit?

What is the easiest way for me to reaccess this? And so

understanding that play has so many different ways that

we can look at it and work with it to help us

reconnect to these organic strength and,

like, curiosities and loves that live within us.

Yeah. When you say low hanging fruit, like, what

do you mean by that? Like Yeah. Like yeah. Yeah. What do you mean?

Question. Play cannot be so risky

that it doesn't invoke curiosity and

fun. If I am working with client, and we're working towards a very

specific goal. Like, I wanna feel more connected with my

kids. That may not actually be where we start our

play. If that is the thing they're really struggling in,

we actually wanna start Playing with connection in a

much easier and less risky space, because I think parenting is

one of the scariest things We can do.

Like, it is so terrifying to be a parent. Mhmm. Right? And

there's so much external pressure. There is So much

powerlessness. There's it's so amazing and also so scary.

It doesn't sound all that playful based on how you're Describing

it. Right? Like, it's, like, kind of the opposite. It's some it it can feel

really heavy and hard and restrictive and all of these things that Yeah.

It's like yeah. Yeah. We're like, we wanna be more playful. I'm like,

well, there's a lot of things that have to go and play in Into

place to make Yeah. Parenting a Place of play. Yeah. But I

do think that parenting is a place of play. You know, when I do I

personally have found I think I have a natural tendency towards play. I don't

know. I really like, very playful in all parts of my

life. And I I wanna talk about, like, the toddler thing,

but I've I've liked Play, being being with my

kids and finding little little things that make it fun

and whatever. All those 8 things that you described, kind of can see those

in my play, in my parenting. But we have to work

towards that feeling of safety and that feeling of connected with

ourselves, I was thinking as well. Yeah. Yeah. But also

differentiating play from a behavior versus an experience because

play is not a behavior. It's an experience within

oneself. Right. What is an action verb?

Yeah. I mean, it, like, actually is, but I think you're talking about it in

a way that's also allowing us to see it from a more holistic

lens. It is an action verb, but it also but it's

more of an experiential verb. It is, like, to be interested.

Mhmm. It is to be engaged. Mhmm. Right? And when we are interested

and engaged in something, that then carries into action.

Mhmm. But it is to engage with something with interest and enjoyment. When we

talk about play, understanding play as a nervous

system state over a behavior because, again,

I could we could all agree that we all love dancing, and I could be

like, oh my god. That's great. Great. I'm gonna put on my favorite song, and

we're all gonna have so much fun dancing. And you may actually hate my song

because I love metal. Right? And you're like, well, that wasn't fun for me at

all. Right. And so then, again, like, understanding that play is an

experience for somebody of being engaged and interested, and it's

not Do this because then you will be playing. It's not like something we can

check a box about. Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. And so when

we talk about, like, if set if I'm working with a Client whose goal

long term goal is, like, I wanna feel more playful and connected with my kids.

Mhmm. Right? I wanna feel more playful and connected in my

experience as a parent. We may not start right there

because that's where they're stuck. Mhmm. Right? That and that's a signal

that, like, it's a little bit too high of a place for us to

Work with risk and in contingency testing. So we

may actually start with, like, what do you know about Being

connected. What did you connect with when you were a a

kid? Right? So maybe let's Connect

with the color blue while you if your favorite color is blue, let's connect with

the color blue while you're at the grocery store today. How

many Blue things can you see today. And what this does is it

teaches a practice of noticing. It teaches a practice of curiosity,

Which then was like, how many times can you hear your kid say

we today? So it carries over to then

Being able to play in the parenting place, but

when we connect people to their or to their organic play

And finding that low hanging fruit that teaches them again

those that's those skills that are behind play,

That engagement, that curiosity, that enjoyment, it

then will trickle in to these places that we feel

stuck. Mhmm. Does that make sense around, like, kinda what it

needs to, like, to kinda go after the low hanging fruit? Yeah. Yeah. Just

tapping into something that's small and easy that feels Like, we can

kinda do it in a as a practice.

Yeah. When my sensory overwhelm, like,

is high in my house. Like, some of the things that

I've tapped into myself are, as a kinetic person, are

like Like, will push my hands together really, really, really hard and then go

Yeah. Right? Like, kinda coming back into that feeling of kinetic

play That helps me then be a

calmer, more connected, and show up in the world,

But I did that through self exploration of what

brings my body enjoyment. Mhmm. Mhmm. Right? But that

intervention wouldn't work for somebody necessarily who's not a

kinetic player. If we had it somebody who was

more in that directorial style play, I might be like,

hey. Can you reorganize your spices for a couple minutes

here? Right? Try them color ordered. Try them alphabetical,

and that may give them that sense of, like Yeah. Yeah.

Right? I have this tool that I teach often on the podcast, and

then my program is called the pause break. And it's Mhmm. You know, resetting your

body, resetting your mind. And in

the list, there's, like, 40 different ways to reset your body.

And they I've never thought about it through the lens of play,

but they are all like we you have to try them out and see which

actually activates for you, and some of them are movement like that. Some of them

are straightening. Some of them are Just very different modalities

because, yeah, we are what soothes us, what we connect to, what

feels good and yummy is different for every, Not every

person, but, like, we there are different things that connect

to different people. Yeah. And yeah. So we'll just try out different things. Yeah.

And I think understanding that play is this place we can use as, like,

in self regulating and, like, kind of that, like, symptom

management of the moment, that calms us, and

then it is also this practice of self expression. Like, now that I am

feeling better, what does it mean to step into the world as a

fuller and more embodied version of myself. You know? I talk

often about it feels like a lot of my clients are more comfortable taking, like,

3 deep breaths, Like, as a practice, but if

I hand them a blank place of paper and I'm like, do whatever you want

on it, and they're like, what? You

know? And so there's this practice that play is, again, this

thing that we can use to self regulate and

to coregulate, and it is also this practice of what it means

to be a more liberated An expressive and

authentic version of ourselves. Mhmm. And that

it has this kind of spectrum style feel to it.

And kind of when we find our play style,

we're able to tap into it in this, like, very full

Exploration of what it means to be of to use

it to live in our everyday, but also to

Create a world that is more aligned

for us. Yes. Yeah. Like, what how do we wanna

feel? How do we want our life to You know, do we wanna feel joy?

Do we wanna feel connected? Do we wanna feel, peace? Like,

those kinds of things using play and and embodying plays, like,

a vehicle towards Yeah. What we want in our lives.

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Really cool. Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna

ask you, like, what What do you see

as obstacles? Like, I'm thinking of, maybe

over identifying with, like, being on time or something. Like Yeah. Really,

really Practical things that or not. It doesn't have to be practical. Whatever you think.

But I was just thinking of, like, what are some of the obstacles that prevent

moms in particular or adults from Tapping into

play. Like, is it we're feeling busy? We're feeling

overwhelmed? We're feeling I don't know. But Yeah. I mean, I think

for the most I think the biggest thing I see is expectations

that we have on ourselves and expectations we feel from others.

Right. That I think these are 2 like, and that's a very, very broad

answer. Right? But it is a like, it

is stress that pushes the body down. This can

and this being really about, like, how we expect things to

go And when we feel into, like, oh, I shouldn't do

this. Right? Like so oftentimes, it

is What I call, like, a the trapped

storyteller Uh-huh. In a way. Uh-huh. So

If we're saying, like, I should be this way. Right? Like, where

did that story come from? Mhmm. What if you weren't always

that way? Right. I should always be on time. Mhmm. Right?

Like, why? Right? Like, let's explore that story

because that's a story that's what I would call very thin. Let's get

curious about what it would mean to be late. What is it what's the story

you tell yourself in if you are late? What's

the story you think others have about you if you're late? Mhmm. I

think one of the things that we really can feel into is when

we feel this system of pressure And asking ourselves, like, what are

the expectations I'm holding of myself or that

I'm I I feel people are holding of me in this moment.

Mhmm. And how can I kinda give myself a little space here? Mhmm. You know?

So I think that's a great like, kind of that stop and pause feel

from your work. Yeah. I'm just thinking of, like, myself, like, when

I feel pressure. I have, like, a a lot

of times I have this thought like I'm behind. Yeah.

And it's all made up anyway. Like, I made up I work for

myself. I made up the deadlines. They're all made up.

I'm not actually behind, but, you know, even if I'm getting curious about

the story and I and I get a little bit of room,

I wonder if you could help us. Like, how do I gamify it

or playify it or whatever? Like, that to do list feeling or because

sometimes there's Just things to do. And Yeah. I've I personally

do try to find little ways that I can make it a little more fun

for me or Yeah. A little more enjoyable, like, And what does that look like

for me? It looks like maybe turning on some music. Mhmm. It maybe looks like

doing a shimmy shake with my body, you know, cutting, Whatever. I

kind of do some things, and then I'm like, alright.

Let's go. And then I have some of that Mhmm.

I think of it as playful energy within me of, like, how much can I

tackle? Or Yeah. I don't know. It's just in my head.

Yeah. So, like, the things you're naming are you're tapping kinda naturally into

kinetic. Right? Like, you're shaking. Right? Like, you're putting some music

on. Like And some people may they may actually

feel fun for them to organize their to do list. You know? Like, I have

tons of you know, in that kind of executive style

way, like, where you put a number. Like, how long does each one of these

tasks take? Right? And that organization itself Feels

fun for some Or color color coded, you know, or stickers. I see

some of, yeah, some of my clients. Some I have people who set a

timer. They're like, how many tasks can I get done in 20 minutes? Right? That's

a competitor. Mhmm. Right? That's a competitor that's gamifying their to do

list. You Can engage a storyteller in this, like, I'm

gonna be the main character. She was up against the clock

with, like, Time the time the time of the day was running out. She had

so much to do. She never thought she would get it done,

but then look at her coming And feeling ignited by

her desire to feel freedom at the end of the day. Right? Like, you can

kind of pull yourself into that, like, main character story if that's

your, Like, if that's your vibe. Yeah. Right? So, like, this is about,

again, like, what pulls you

in, But play has to be kinda self motivated.

Consistency is not something we can go after.

It's a byproduct of doing things we enjoy.

Right? Like, I think one of the things that's unique about being a parent is

that we do always have a to do list. And as Kids, it

was like, when you're done with your chores, you can play.

As an adult, we are never done with our chores.

We are never done with our chores, So we have to be the adult

in our own bodies that say that's good enough for now. Yeah.

I I often will have Shrek. Shrek tells

donkey, that'll do, donkey. That'll do. He has this little

phrase. And I will often like, I

have the GIF of it or whatever. Like, I pull it up sometimes and,

like, rewatch it in my for myself because I

do Sorta need somebody, me, to say,

hey. Good job. You've done enough. Like, you can stop.

Yeah. And we wanna feel that sense of self leadership in our

life. Mhmm. You know? That we feel in

control of the way that we are expending time and and

energy. Yeah. You know? Because at the end of the day, this is all we

have is time and energy. Yeah. We wanna use that in

a way that is meaningful to us so that We feel more fulfilled

in our lives, and we can offer a more fulfilled version

of ourselves to our kids. Mhmm. Yeah. Right? And so I

think by engaging in playfulness, like learning your

own inherent ways of playing, You

learn in like, organically what it means to manage your

time, to protect time, to feel embodied,

To feel purpose and meaning in, like, what you're doing right there,

and it makes it easier to tap into that experience with your

kids, to prioritize that and not in this, like, top

down, I'm gonna do this thing, but it's, like, almost like

it's easier To just get called in to those moments

because you're like, oh, yeah. Mhmm. Like, I know what it's like to sit here

with my kid because I know what it's like to also sit in a song.

Yeah. And it becomes this more, like, flexible and organic

way of learning about how to use your time and

energy in ways that are Yeah. In your in your terms. Yeah. Because, you mean,

the thing is, there are the expectations we can evaluate

those. Like, why do I think it's important to be on time? Why do I

care that, I don't know. We only eat brown rice, not anything not

ever anything. Yeah. Whatever. Whatever the things are. We have our rules in our

head. So some of them we might decide, like, nope. This is my role, and

I wanna keep it. It's important to me. Like, great.

How do you make that more enjoyable? Yeah. If

you're going to stick to your own boundary or whatever you've

decided is valuable and important, maybe you've put aside social expectations

and You're all the stories, and you're like, nope. This is what I care about.

Great. Yeah. It doesn't have to be drudgery. Yeah. Yeah. And

I think, also, like, a lot of the time when we set Those boundaries and

those expectations is really exploring, like, the stories behind them.

Right? So, like, I work a lot with people on time.

Like, I think that is a Universally stressful

thing. Mhmm. So if we have a value of being on time,

like, is that How is that connected to, like, our values

versus our fear of acceptance? Are we willing to sacrifice being

on time if it means having a more Connected

experience to get there? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. Is that the bottom line? And

this is a place again that you kinda get to Maybe you

want to learn to be a little bit less rigid with time. Mhmm.

And we get to explore, like, where Where can we play

with rigidity? Time management. But maybe you also want to

learn to be more rigid with time. Right. So, like, then we

get to play with, like, building rigidity with time. You know? Like, I would

encourage more competition. Like, do your dishes in 2 minutes, and that's

it. You're done. Mhmm. Right? Like, learn, compete with time

in a way Mhmm. Versus if you have somebody who's really rigid with

time. It may be more about, like, set the timer for 5 minutes and do

whatever you want. You cannot adult.

Uh-huh. You cannot adult. Mhmm. Right. But see what

see what it means to slow have a slower clock experience.

Right? Yeah. And not just go on your phone.

Yeah. You can't adult. You can't go on the phone. Because sometimes I

think when I think especially as moms, when we have, like, snippets like that

where, you know, maybe we have snippets of time. We're

not quite sure even how to engage with ourselves. Yeah. And, you

know, we're tired. We're just Wanna zone out, and

it could be an opportunity actually to connect with yourself and

be more playful in whatever way that is. Yeah.

One of my, like, favorite intake questions I, like, do with people often is, like,

if I gave you a free day and there was

you knew your kids were safe, Everything in your house was taken

care of. Like, you there was a body double of you in the home. Mhmm.

All boxes checked. Everything's good. And there's a

copy of you that has a free day. Yeah. What would you do with

it? You know? And I think so many moms are like,

Woah. Most I ask that to a lot, and some will say I

would sleep all day. And I think that's very interesting. I'm like, oh, well, we

need to work on that. Like Mhmm. That level of exhaustion or where you're

what's happening there. Mhmm. And and some are like, I would

binge watch TV all day, and it's just it Just kind of you can see

the answers are there's a lot of fatigue here. There's a lot of lack

of spontaneity, playfulness Yeah. Connectedness. Yeah. And

it's like, there's so much room to work on that and Yeah.

I mean, if you wanna watch TV all day, that's that's fine. No one's judging

you. But what else? Like Yeah. Maybe you did that

one day. What's next day? What Yeah. Like, really moving that

needle a little bit more of, like, okay. Even, like, well, what kind of TV?

Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, it's like, I think when people are watching, like, you

know, housewives shows, they're really into, like, the

gossip and the story. Right? Like, that's storytelling style TV. Mhmm. If

they're watching planet Earth, that's more of, like, exploratory TV.

Mhmm. Mhmm. Right? If they're watching something like The Voice Or, like, a

competitive show. Like, maybe that's a part of them that is competitive and

storytelling. Right? Like, and so even asking, like,

what kind of TV Are you inclined towards? You know, I know, like, in

the podcast you sent me, you talked about, like, the Great British Baking Show,

and I also love this show. Right? And, like, for me, this is,

Like, storytelling, it's it's watching storytelling. It's watching

creativity. It's watching a director like, a director

play, like people Planning and putting things into action, but it's

hilariously not very competitive. Like, I think that's, like, you know, one of

the things that's funny about it. It's, like, it's technically a competitive show, but I

don't know if anybody actually cares about winning on that show very much. No. They

just care about, like, getting to next week. Right. So if your your

clients who are answering, like, You know, like, even if you're like, what

kind of TV would you watch all day? Like, you can explore what kind

of TV it is To get a hint of, like,

what it is they are Seeking or into. Yeah. Mhmm. What

they're tapping into. Right? If they're sleeping all day,

is like, tell me about the bed you're sleeping in. Mhmm. Right?

Like, How do you how would you know you've had enough sleep? You can play

with, like, sensory stuff and imagination stuff.

So much. So great. What kind of room? Like, build me your

throne. What would your room be, like, surrounded in? To get a sense

of, again, like, where their body and imagination goes.

Yeah. It's so beautiful. I love it. I love, like,

what you're bringing to the world and all of that. Is there anything last takeaways

you wanna give to us as we As we wrap, like things that you

want you'd wanna say or tell people If

you're feeling stuck, That is super normal.

The hardest step is the first step. As soon as you

start to connect with your play bone, It will feed

itself. And so just staying open and staying

curious and staying brave in this

Reconnecting with your playful self. You'll find

it. Yeah. That's so so true.

Okay. So how can people find you? Because they're gonna want to know more about

you. They're gonna wanna learn from you. They're gonna be like, TJ's amazing. Tell me

everything. I am on the Playful Revolution is my

company. You can find me on the playfulrevolution.com. You can find me on

Instagram. I do really short style coaching, only

kind of 2 little sessions, and it's really to help jump start,

play. And I work with people who are In the freeze of their

nervous system and or are ready to, like, jump start play.

So if you're like, I don't know where to start, That's a great place to

work with me, and you're like, I'm ready to go. That's a great place to

work with me. And but my email list is really fun because I send out

play prompts and All these interpretive dance

videos of me and all this weird fun educational stuff that

is just my musings and wanderings through the world. So that's also a fun place

to kinda connect more. Okay. That's great. Yeah. So you have, like, a week

weekly newsletter or something like that you send out. And It's whenever the wind blows

me, but yes. Okay. So some sort of frequency that people

can connect and get tips and ideas from you. Yeah. Yeah. That's

wonderful. Okay. So the playful revolution, and that's on Instagram

and then also on your website. And then sign up.

Okay. Good. Well, thank you so much for being here, helping us

become calm and playful mamas and just tap tapping into

our own connected, playful self. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.

Thank you so much for having me and, you know, and bringing this kind of

work out to the world. I love seeing women feel more

Capable and never seeing. Yeah. I love it. Thank you.