This is More Than Work, the podcast reminding you that your self worth

is made up of more than your job title.

Each week, I'll talk to a guest about how they discovered that for themselves.

You'll hear about what they did, what they're doing, and who they are.

I'm your host, Rabiah.

I work in IT, perform stand up comedy, write, and of course podcast.

Thank you for listening.

Here we go!

Hey everyone, welcome back to More Than Work.

I am really excited because this guest actually came to me via one of my favorite

podcasts and fellow squadcasters, Pam Uzzel, who does Art Heals All Wounds, and

he was a guest there, and he's a guest here and so maybe if you really love him,

you'll go listen to him over there too.

Because I'd love to give Pam a shout as well.

But it's Michael Brady.

He is a psychotherapist and musician.

And as a musician, he's M Brady, but we'll call him Michael for this one.

So thanks for being a guest on more than work, Michael.

Thanks for having me.

Great to be here.

Yeah.

I'm glad to, glad to get to meet you.

I know I put you through it to schedule.

So first of all, where am I talking to you from today?

Well, you normally would find me from the mountains of western

Massachusetts, but I happen to be in South Carolina at the moment, visiting

my daughter who's in college down here.

Nice.

Okay, cool.

And of course, um, I'm in London, but sound like this cause I'm from California.

So first of all, I think I mentioned you do psychotherapy.

Let's just talk about your, you being a psychotherapist and how long you've

been doing that and kind of what, just what you want to tell, tell me about

that work and what it does for you.

Sure.

I've been a practicing psychotherapist since I was 30.

I'm now 63, so I've been at it for a while.

And honestly, it's, it's, I begin by saying it's just a true honor to be

able to sit with people and, and share their lives in such an intimate way.

It's, it's, it's really quite a remarkable experience.

I pinch myself most days and go, I actually get to do this for work.

So it's something I'm really grateful for.

And it's really a lot of, a lot of meaning.

It also became the inspiration, for the record that I made and, as

well so we'll get to that later.

Awesome.

Yeah.

And so, I mean, I, I just, I'm pretty open about it that I've

been in therapy for many years off and on or with different people.

Did you decide to go into therapy to help people or how did you decide

to go into that as a profession?

Cause even you went into it 30 years ago and I definitely think that the

landscape has changed and how people talk about mental health so how'd

you decide to go into that years ago?

that's a great question and, you know, honestly,

I, I sort of wish that many clients when they're interviewing

therapists, great question to ask.

I had one person ask me exactly that.

And, and the story I told that person, and I'll tell you now is, I got

interested in psychotherapy mainly because, I was a professional tennis

player in my previous life and I came to understand really clearly that the

role of the psychology obviously plays in one's realizing one's potential.

And, and I think, hopefully most therapists have gone through some sort

of suffering themselves and which has basically, moved them into therapy.

And I, I wouldn't see a therapist, frankly, unless they've been in therapy

themselves extensively, because you just, until you've been on the other

side of the couch, you just, you can't really know what it's like A.

And B, you want, you want someone that's kind of been there to

sort of mind the landscape of, of sort of their inner worlds to, if

they're going to help you as well.

So, um, that's, that sort of led me initially as I had sort of a fall from

grace and in my, in my tennis career.

And in my sort of attempt to sort of find my way back into the best of

my game again, I got fascinated by all sorts of different avenues into

helping myself realize my potential.

And hopefully that's what I do with my clients as well.

And it's become not only a personal interest, but really a passion as well.

Yeah.

Well, in sports, I mean, I have a nephew who plays baseball and he's amazing.

And he has this kind of mindset that I find interesting, but I, I was talking to

him about, I heard about the yips, like,

Yeah,

when people kind of lose their ability to play like a pitcher

really is where it relates mostly and I thought that was interesting.

And I do stand up comedy and I know there's a mindset you have to get into

as well because sometimes you'll be on stage and just forget what you were

saying or something, which is similar to the yips I'd say it's the comedy yips.

But, what was it for you if you want to share with tennis that?

Yeah.

What happened or that occurred that got you into more delving

into the psychology of things?

Sure.

Well, um, I won't give you the gory story, but the, the long and short of

it is, is that, , I had sort of lived a somewhat of a charmed tennis life.

The game had come quite naturally to me and sort of little did I know, but

actually I sort of played in what sports psychologist called a flow state for

the early part of my career, which is that sort of state where you're

just locked in, you're super present.

Um, you're not really concerned about winning or losing.

You're just absorbed in your senses, you know.

Movement is like a dance.

It's this, it's this incredible place that, that, that, you

know, one of the terms is called the sports peak experience, the

highest expression of that state.

And what I didn't realize is from when I started playing from 11 to about

16, I played in that state naturally, and I didn't really know better.

I didn't know there was another state until I had a series of events that

happened, that basically resulted in me having this fall from grace from being

one of the better players and nationally ranked player and all that kind of stuff

into sort of basically being a has been

over the course of a year.

I mean, essentially the short version of the story is, is I qualified

for the national championships and ended up showing up a day late

because I got the dates wrong.

And in an order, if you don't, you don't show up for the national championships,

you don't get a national ranking.

And so if I had showed up, I would have probably been top 50 in the

country, which means scholarships.

It means coaches.

It means all sorts of things.

So that really rally from a time when everything came easily.

And then I had a couple other events.

Bottom line is that I just sort of lost my way and, pulled back from tennis and,

got involved in the drugs as my way of coping with a series of disappointments.

And I sort of went off the rails for a couple of years and when I finally woke

up, if you will, and sort of rededicated myself to tennis what I discovered was

that I'd sort of lost that flow state.

It became more mechanical.

It became, I got more attached to winning, didn't

play in my senses as much.

I got more conservative.

This game wasn't as creative.

You get the idea.

So I ended up spending really next.

eight or nine years really just trying to go find that state of consciousness again.

And so to do that, I studied Buddhism, I meditated, I studied Zen art, I got

involved in all kinds of things, that, you know, really helped me tap in and

really helped me realize my potential.

Again, I didn't quite fall back into that same state as much as I did when I was

younger, but, um, I learned a lot trying.

Yeah.

And thanks for sharing that.

I mean, I know there's a difficult thing in kind of going back and

looking at something like that.

Especially when It's not a place you are anymore, but I think sharing that kind

of part of our experience or journey, I always feel cheesy saying journey,

I hear you.

like, you know, it does, does matter.

And certainly I think a lot of people could probably relate to things just

changing in their early adulthood and having to find their way.

And so you have an essay on your website, which we'll be

linking to eventually anyway, in the show notes and then later on.

But, um, so I did read a little bit, so I'm asking a leading

question now, basically.

At what point did you also have an experience with music that

kind of correlated with this, you know, experience with tennis?

And I guess just get into that and that'll get us into, to your

experience with music overall.

Yeah.

that sounds like a good segue and you're, you're correct

to sit to hear them as all related.

And I think one of the things that maybe we'll get to in this conversation

that things relate all the way back to when we're actually much easier

and they sort of build on themselves.

But to sort of take you to the story, I was 25 years old.

I was, recovering from an injury on the tennis tour.

So I was taking a few months off.

And I was living in the same town as my brother, who's was

in an indie rock band in town.

And, I came to learn that the bass player was leaving the band in

four months and I had played guitar casually for a number of years.

And so I thought, oh, you know, I didn't play bass, but

I got enough finger dexterity.

I can learn the bass.

I mean, how hard can it be?

So I, I practiced furiously for the next four months to the point

that I could actually play all the songs pretty confidently.

However, when it came to actually playing live, that was another matter altogether.

I was actually feeling pretty confident walking into the audition.

As I say in my essay, you know, as I was driving over there, I heard

that Birds song, "So You Want to Be a Rock and Roll Star", and I said,

ah, the gods have lined up for me.

This is an omen.

It portends my success today.

Um, so I was really feeling pretty good, but then I walked into this

old ramshackle garage, which was the location of the audition.

And, and then once I saw that open space where the bass player was going

to stand, I suddenly started getting this anxiety sort of building up in me.

I thought, ah, this is no big deal.

I can handle this.

Um, but that anxiety quickly turned to a full fledged, uh,

severe, severe panic attack.

I'd never had one before, never had one since.

I was literally, my legs were convulsing.

I thought, am I having epileptic seizure?

What's going on?

Um, in any event, I was so incapacitated that I literally couldn't, I had to

sit down cause I was shaking so much.

I couldn't, my legs, my arms were shaking.

I couldn't play the bass.

There was no way.

So I, I left that audition without playing a note.

And , so as you can imagine, there's a lot of embarrassment.

There's a certain amount of humiliation, but, um, but what's interesting is that

I walked away from music after that.

But what I was really was walking away from was just

like this vulnerability thing.

It's like, okay, I've had enough of this vulnerability stuff, with music.

And it was different than, I think it's different than tennis, but I was

able to come back from tennis because I had a baseline of expertise there.

Whereas with music, I really didn't.

I was kind of a wannabe bass player, wannabe guitar player,

really, to some degree.

And so I, I just, I just walked away from it, even though music

is one of my great passions.

And I got, you know, in the last 20 years, I became a shrink and I was like,

I got very curious about what the heck, why, why did I walk away from this?

Why did I walk away from tennis?

The way I did, like, what's up with that?

I come from a good family.

I, I, I was pretty resilient in my second part of my tennis career.

Um, what is up with that?

And so I started researching panic and anxiety, but, but what, what I really

got interested in was, this notion of what's called unprocessed losses and,

and trying to understand why did I, why didn't I have more resiliency and

so all of that sort of led to this, to, to this curiosity about what

happens when difficult events happen to people, uh, particularly when they're

young and they're formative and their emotional DNA, if you will, is forming.

And what I came to conclude was that there's a lot of, you know,

what I could call small T events, like small trauma events versus see,

the big T traumas we know about.

You know, car wrecks, landmines, if you're a soldier that you're, you

know, all big stuff, we know what those are like, but the small T events are,

are little things that, that maybe we don't process because either We're too

embarrassed to admit something happened or, uh, parents don't know what, don't

know to talk about it with something.

But there's lots of events that can happen.

I'll give you a couple examples from my history that just to explain this.

Um, I once had it when I first started therapy my therapist said,

Hey, tell, give me an autobiography, tell me about your life.

I'm like, I can give you my autobiography in 10 minutes.

What do I need to go write this stuff down?

But when I did write it down, I discovered a couple things

that were really formative.

The first was I was in a different school every year from

kindergarten to seventh grade.

And then a new one at ninth And right away I was like, Oh, so this is why I was kind

of socially anxious in high school and had trouble asking girls out and so on,

right?

And it's like, it instantly clicked in.

It's like, okay.

And then I flashed to another event that, that is amusing at this

point, but it wasn't that I totally buried, which is, I don't know if

you know about the Pinewood Derby.

If you've ever heard of the Pinewood Derby, this is a Cub Scout thing

where they give you a block of wood.

That's basically it.

Little square piece of wood.

And they say, go home with your dad and build an Indy race car and come back.

And then we're going to race it, right?

So I got sent home with this block of wood and neither my dad nor myself knew

what an Indy race car even looked like.

And we didn't really know much about woodworking.

The long and short is we just rounded off the corners and

basically had the equivalent.

W above we spray painted it black and then painted a little black five on the

side and I was all proud of this and until the day you show up at the at the big

event right and you have this big table with like 200 cars and then you walk to

the table and look around and I see like 190 indie race cars right and they're

all have literally no wood left on them they're these teams they've got stripes

also professionally painted right And of course, all the kids started laughing

and howling at my VW bug, basically.

And I just remember that was then the insult injury, when it came time for

the cars to race mine, basically the wheels fell off and fell off the track.

So incredibly humiliating event for a kid.

I just completely buried it, but it's like these kinds of events

land and they, they, they set things up and they set things in motion.

And then we, I think we just sort of make decisions about

how do we not get hurt again.

And I think one of the ways that many people do that is,

um, They avoid vulnerability.

They avoid exposure.

Um, they, they create strategies, um, so that they are not as vulnerable.

And so anyway, that kind of became my, my decision that I made, I think,

post this music experience was like, I'm going to do what I do well.

I'm going to do therapy.

I'm going to teach tennis after, you know, at that point, um, you know,

after my career was over, and I'm just going to avoid stuff that's hard.

And, you know, So that's kind of how, how that went for many years until

sort of the next portion of the story.

Yeah.

And I think it is, it is funny because there are those early

humiliations that you do remember and they're not, you're right.

they're usually not this big traumatic thing, but they do form what you do.

I remember for me, like just, I made a mistake in spelling.

I didn't hear, I'll never forget because it was in like kindergarten or

something and I was like, They asked you to spell fan and I spelled van

and I, I was, I mean, I'm a perfect, well, I'm a perfectionist, which

that this is not my therapy session or we get into that, but I can tell

you why, but I just remember that.

They do change the way we behave later on, like you said, which is interesting.

And I think you finding that out for yourself probably made

you more compassionate towards your patients, I assume.

And,

Oh, very much

yeah,

Yeah, very much so.

You know, what's interesting about these small events is that they actually

register in the brain the same way as, you know, Big T, Big stress events register.

The brain literally doesn't know the difference if you do a brain

MRI of someone with a small kind of humiliation or embarrassment.

You would think it would be very different than someone going

through a big trauma, but in fact the brain registers the same thing.

And what's interesting is that we store those memories and we just sort

of make decisions, and sort of the soundtrack for that part of our brain

that stores all of our old memories is

that Who tune, I won't

get fooled again, right?

We store those memories like, man, I can't let that happen.

And it's

sort of, it sort

of gets our protective system engaged and then

we create all sorts of strategies to be safe in the world in

whatever, in whatever way we do it.

Yeah, for sure.

And also just you having the panic attack and the way you did, I remember the

first time I saw someone have a panic attack, it was a friend, like when we

were in high school and we were at a band outing like for the marching band and

he just like had a panic attack and it seemed like a heart attack or something.

And then I know in my later twenties and up to the last couple of years,

like, um, now know what they are and can stop them in a way, but like that

there's such a hard thing to have because unless you've had one, you don't know.

So I think even you having that experience is helpful.

And I do agree with you about like not going to therapist as a minute

therapy, because honestly, people I know who are studying psychology, I'm

like, who are you studying this for?

Cause you are something else.

I'm like,

please get help from someone else.

Like, please.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, so it's funny.

Um, so it, one thing, cause we're going to talk about, I think your album, cause

I mean, I think, you know, it's, so you're doing the psychotherapy, which

fulfills you, but it, you know, you got back into music and, I was just thinking

about when I was going to talk to you, how, cause I was thinking about my, the

therapist I know, and like, I don't, or that I'm, I've gone to, or, or go

to, and thinking about like realizing they have a life outside of that.

Yeah.

It's kind of like when you're a kid and you see your teacher out with their kids

for the first time and you're like what?

Like what they're, why are they at the store?

Why do they have other kids with them?

And, you know, and I think it's the same with like a therapist.

I'm like, Oh, I wonder if my therapist likes music, you know,

we never talked about that.

And so, um, so this could, you know, this is kind of insightful.

Like, Oh, they, therapists do have lives.

I forget.

But so how did you decide, cause you not only got back into music, but

you have an album that you've, you've created and that's even a bigger

step in getting back into music.

So how'd all that happen for you?

Yeah, well, there's a series of events

really that sort of led to it.

I mean, basically I, I, I've loved music for a long time and it got to a point

where a good friend of mine, I had shared that I, that, that had played years ago.

And, and he was a musician and someone maybe we'll hear about later.

Uh, but he basically sort of encouraged me to start again.

And so long and short is I started and I started writing songs and playing.

I was still carrying sort of the, the leftovers, if you will, of this,

thou shall not be vulnerable, right?

The first commandment coming out of experience like that.

And so I wrote songs for years and years, but I was like, I'm

not sharing this with anybody.

I just didn't, you know, there's, there are vulnerable songs are pretty intimate.

Um, I've got sort of this, this kind of voice that's very

sort of moody and emotional.

And, uh, I just wasn't prepared to be that vulnerable.

And I've come to conclude you have no business being an artist if

you're not willing to be vulnerable.

Um, So basically, so for years and years, that was kind of a memo.

I had sort of an imposter voice that was like, Oh, you're kind of a wannabe.

You're not really a musician, you know, that voice, right?

That sort of had a critic voice.

Oh, you're to this, you do that.

Right.

So I sort of, uh, that, that went on for 15 years probably.

Um, and about that time I started experiencing this intense cognitive

dissonance when I was realizing that, you know, gosh, I'm encouraging my

clients to be vulnerable and take risks.

And here I am with the skeletons in my own musical closet, if you

will, that I'm really not taking on.

And I just, honestly, I just couldn't tolerate that and

that level of discomfort.

And I'm like, this isn't, this is crazy.

I have to take this on.

And at that point it's also getting older.

I'm like, you know, I'm not going to go to my death bed and never

have really honored this, this, this music that I love so much.

And about the same time, I decided that everything that I was writing

about was really not nearly as interesting and as compelling and

frankly, inspiring as the stories that I witnessed every day in my office.

And so basically I decided, you know what, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm

going to go full on with this thing.

I'm going to embrace vulnerability, sort of be the Brené Brown

poster child is my goal in life.

And so what I decided to do is just make this record and that I would, it was

going to be a concept album and it would be written from the first person voice of

not my clients, of course, cause I would never write songs of any real clients.

Uh, these are all fictional depictions of universal themes and therapy, but of

course I'm influenced by what I witnessed.

Basically I just have went into character and just started sort of imagining myself

being on the other side of the couch and dealing with any number of issues.

Um, and by the way, many of my songs on the record are, are actually almost

conversations that are intrapsychic conversations, like from one part of the

personality, sort of encouraging another part, trying to get up the courage to do

something or to confront something and sort of getting pulled both directions.

Most of my songs have sort of a struggle and then some sort of

way out, some sort of resolution.

Sort of folks wrestle with that across a bunch of different dimension

dimensions different themes.

So some of the songs are you know, there's a song for example called "Rise"

that people listen to it Oh, that's a great love song like well It's actually

a song from one part of the self sort of encouraging and another part afraid to

be out and take risks takes to anxious sort of like me but not about me.

Um, anyway So, uh, there's a lot of storylines, but the bottom line

was, is that, that, that became the project that I said, you know, this

is where I'm going to confront this personal history, this avoidance.

And I was just going to really embrace vulnerability and creativity was

going to be the pathway to do it.

And so that's how it came to pass.

And then the fact that you're, you said you didn't

share the things and now you are sharing the things and

Right.

that is a big deal, um, to do that.

And I guess just looking at music in general, I mean, because I'm just

thinking, you can like music and not do an album, or you can play guitar but just do

covers, or whatever, so, did you realize that you were a creative person who

needed a creative outlet like all along?

Or do you think even tennis or something was a creative outlet for you before?

Well, that's a great question.

Again, a wonderful segue of sort of adding up the events, um,

together, cause you're correct.

Tennis at its highest form is a creative experience for sure.

And, you know, I, there's a real buzz just sort of locking in to the present moment.

like that.

And so when I, when I retired, I did start to get sort of thinking how

else can I manifest as always been interested in the arts and in music.

I wasn't ready to play music yet, but what I did to do is I started painting,

um, began, you know, one evening when I decided I hate Hallmark cards, but I want

to send out Christmas cards to people.

So I invited a bunch of people over and made a shit ton of

margaritas and, um, said, all right.

Let's get the watercolors out and let's roll people.

And so that started a series of abstractions.

And then I got fascinated with painting and I painted actually for

the next 10, 12, 15 years or so.

And so I have a whole, a whole period of my life and it's all I did was painted.

In fact, the album cover, by the way, um, that is a painting of mine, um,

Oh, cool.

I did also a bunch of videos that I decided to, um, create

sort of art videos to some of the music.

And, you know, just to sort of integrate a little bit of my artistic brain into

the, into the music world, you can

So did you do any, sorry, did you do any training

for painting or did you just?

None, no training now.

It's just all self taught.

Same with music.

I've never had a guitar lesson or a voice lesson.

Just sort of just follow my instincts.

how dare you?

No, I'm just kidding.

Oh, that's really cool.

I mean, I guess, yeah, it's easier for you to tell people to go for it.

And if you're putting your money where your mouth is, you

Yeah, I like that.

And it's, it's truly experience has been honestly one of the most transformative

experience I've ever had, honestly.

Um, and to embrace vulnerability in this way is terrifying.

I mean, it's not like I'm like, woohoo, I get to talk to Rabiah and

you it's like, okay, here we go.

I'm committed, committed to vulnerability.

Let's roll buddy.

I'm not someone that really wants to be front and center necessarily.

I'm kind of a quiet introvert, but, um, but I also, you know, I

felt like I just have to do that.

And also, honestly, I feel really proud of the music.

I think, um, some really, some good stuff came out of it.

And I can imagine if I was listening, I'd be going, Oh God, a music, an

album about therapy written from the, this must be some, either some really

dark, morbid stuff, or it's like some kind of, uh, kumbaya experience.

You um, "We Are the World" to acoustic guitar or something.

And actually that was my biggest goal was to not make that record.

I really wanted it to have an edge, have it be, you know, kind of moody and, and,

but also full of possibility as well.

I really, I really liked it.

And what I heard of it, I didn't, I don't know if I heard everything,

but, um, what I've heard, I've liked.

And, you know, I just think your experience kind of resonated with me.

And that's one reason, one reason I was like, when we were in touch

with each other, it was like, yeah, they would come on because.

And I don't usually talk that casually.

I guess I'm talking to you like a therapist now.

Um, I'm trying to avoid the real subjects and getting to other stuff.

No, I'm just kidding.

But, um, but yeah, and then I just, I like music too.

So I just want to ask you, like, as far as music goes, I mean, the album you made, is

this the album of music that like you also listen to, or who are your influences in

general, like, or even favorite artists, I mean, if they're not your influences.

Gosh, the list is so long.

Um, but, you know, I actually recently had someone who, asked me this, who gave me

the highest compliment I could ever have, which was, you know, she said, she said,

your music reminds me of "The National".

I'm like,

Oh, yeah.

Mm

died and went to heaven kind of moment.

These are one of my favorite bands, and I, obviously it's a very inflated

view, but I kind of got a little bit of that sort of dark, some of those dark

tones, baritone, uh, uh, kind of sounds.

But, and then somebody else said, you mentioned that, that the song

sounded like, you know, 11 sort of prayers, um, honoring the human

condition, which felt like the biggest compliments that I could have.

So The National is a big influence, um, Bon Iver.

Richard Thompson.

I grew up in my early influence of a Canadian singer

songwriter named Bruce Coburn.

It was my first big true love.

He's, uh, just one of these really super emotional, um,

heartfelt singer songwriters.

And he's, and I think some of my vocal delivery, I think, came from

hundreds of hours of listening to him.

So those those are some of my influences, but you know, I'm just interested in

anybody that's writing emotional music.

I can be moved by really, I mean, I'm sort of referring, referencing indie stuff,

but I can be equally moved by, um, some of the minimalist stuff of like Steve Reich

and Philip Glass and any music that, that, that creates emotion, I'm there, you know?

Well, I don't know if you heard the new Billy Joel song, too.

I mean, it was completely He didn't write it.

He wrote the music, apparently, or contributed some big, big fat chords to

it, but the lyrics are, are deep, and it's not what he's, I mean, he's done some,

but they're not his, and, and it, it, um, I don't know, it's interesting when these

big emotional songs what they can do, you know, and how they can just move people.

Colin Hay is one of my absolute favorite people.

And he has this great, brilliant sense of humor when he talks, but

then his songs are deeply emotional, you know, even when they're upbeat

and I just think it's, it's just.

It's such a cool way of people expressing themselves, you know?

Yeah, no, I agree.

I couldn't write a , a happy pop song if I wanted to, I don't think.

Uh, I'd like to think that that doesn't mean the music is super dark and

depressing, but it's definitely, um, uh, you know, rmotion or go home kind

of is sort of my, my, the only way I know how to, to play music or, or sing.

So.

Yeah, yeah, and What what are your plans with the album?

Are you playing live at all or do you want to or what's yeah,

Well, that, that, if, if I'm going to really, um, be, if I'm

going to go full on, um, vulnerability, that's going to be the next step.

The reality is I tried to play live a couple of times and both times my vocal

chords basically just seized up honestly.

Anxiety just took hold.

I was great.

10 minutes before I was like, I sound pretty good.

Walked on stage and boom, sound like Mickey mouse.

Um, So, um, I'm, I'm working up to it.

I, I'm sort of committed to playing live and I'm going, I'm going to do that.

That's going to be next.

Right now I'm just hoping some folks might listen, you know, I, I think there's some

interesting music there and, um, I just, uh, obviously trying to be an absolute

nobody and have anybody actually have a listen is, is a bit of a challenge.

So I'm hoping folks will give it a chance and spread it around if

it's something that they like.

So right now I'm, I'm, I'm marketing and, and just trying to get it out

there, which is very hard to do.

It's hard to get anybody to sort of respond to an email or a music journalist

to review any music journalists out there.

That would be fabulous.

But, um, and then, you know, I'm really, I think now that I've sort

of had sort of let Genie out of the bottle, if you will, I sort of, I'm

super excited about what's next.

I've got a bunch of songs that are sort of waiting for me when I'm done marking this.

I'm really looking forward to this sort of than to doing this again honestly.

It was just so exciting to have my ears and headphones for about three years

and and just waking up every morning.

Go.

How did that tracks?

How did that was as good as I thought it was?

I was like, I don't know.

It was as good as whatever.

I just love being in it.

You know, it's just an incredible experience.

So, yeah, that's what's next.

I hope.

Yeah,

cool.

Yeah.

And I think, yeah, with playing, you can do it once you're ready.

Yeah.

How did you?

Did you?

Is it hard for you to get up on stage first time?

time

The first time, not as much, you know, I think just

because I mean, comedy is different.

I, it was stuff I wrote and.

I mean, it was, I was nervous.

I mean, I remember, I think it's the most nervous I've been for a gig for sure.

But I think it was just such a, a thing that I'd put off for so long, kind of

for, for different reasons than you, I suppose, but like still, like, I

just didn't think I belonged up there.

And I thought a lot of it was tied around my body image too.

And just saying, well, I'm like, no one will want to see me up there.

This is horrible stuff you say to yourself, you know, like, who's

going to want to see me up there?

And they're going to laugh at me.

They're not going to laugh at me.

at me and whatever.

Um, and just kind of, kind of thinking about just myself in different ways and

that I didn't belong, but then, you know, I think the truth is like, if you're

there, you belong there, you know, you've,

Yeah,

someone's put you there.

You put yourself there, open mics, you, everyone's there.

It doesn't matter if they want it or not, they can show up and do it.

And I think there's something about the people who can just get up and make a

complete fool of themselves because.

They don't, they don't have any idea that they're not good.

And I think it's the people who are good have a harder time with that.

I don't know.

I mean, that's kind of a jerk thing to say, but I, I have found the

people who are really lacking in any self awareness and are really awful.

It almost, I don't know if they, yeah, they're even aware.

Cause I've come back.

Oh, that was great.

It's like, what were you, where were you?

You know?

Um, yeah, that's kind of,

I

very nice, but

I know what I know what you speak for sure.

yeah.

So I think it's just a matter of like.

Like when I've talked to comics, a lot of times I'll talk at a gig

with people and some people will be really nervous at their first time

or early on and I kind of, and what I do to myself too, is I set my goal.

And so sometimes my goal is just to perform.

Like I don't have it in me to do anything else, but just

to perform and get off stage.

And I just tell them like, what, what, what do you want to do?

Like, are you trying to have the best gig anyone's ever had and

get on the biggest stage ever?

Are you just trying to go up and say your material?

And if that's what you're trying to do and you do that, then you've achieved it.

And so for you, it's like, even if your goal is just to go up and sing one of

your songs and that's the objective and it doesn't have to, nothing else has

to happen, it doesn't have to be for people to like it, who cares, that's

the objective you can achieve it.

Um, I think when I start to get more in my head about, I want to be the funniest

tonight, you know, and things like that, where I can't have any control over that.

Really.

That's when I get messed up,

Yeah, right.

That's it.

You're just in the moment.

Then let the chips fall where they may after that for sure.

for

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it's never going to be that bad.

I mean, it just isn't like, I don't know.

Cause it's just, you know, the thing, the thing I learned in comedy

the most, and I think it applies to music or anything is like, no

matter how that gig goes right then.

You just have to do the next gig.

If it's the best gig you ever had, you still have to do the next one.

If it's the worst gig you ever had, you still have to do the next one.

And that one can go how it goes.

And that's the kind of beauty of all of it.

It just kind of keeps going.

I do want to ask you about one thing, which is Brené Brown,

because you mentioned her.

And we just kind of skipped by her a little bit, but Brené Brown was

definitely one of the most influential people to me in the last decade.

Although I can't say I always follow what I've read, but

what was the book that got you?

Mine was "Gifts of Imperfection".

What was the book that got you in or podcast or whatever?

It was the book, yeah, the book "Dare Greatly"

was the book that got me in.

And, uh, you know, of course I saw her TED talk that went viral.

And you know, I, I kind of knew this stuff intellectually, but I

wasn't really ready to integrate it.

I sort of knew professionally and all this stuff but when I read it

and was really thinking, ready, I was ready to be vulnerable myself she was

the voice that put me over the edge.

And it was just like, ah, this is, this is, life is short.

There's only one way to live here.

And I just, it was just like, okay, this is what, this is what I have to do.

And she would definitely inspired me for sure.

Awesome.

Was your family supportive of you doing the music and stuff or?

Yeah, for sure.

Well, it's funny because my brother is the rockstar of the family.

I have an extreme, extremely talented brother.

And so, you know, one of the, one of the other things I was overcoming in

this whole project was just like, how can I be making music when my brother's

truly an extraordinary songwriter?

It's like, uh, but, uh, but everybody was very supportive.

And, but the hardest part was for me, it was just overcoming, okay.

My role in the family is the shrink and the tennis pro and he's the musician

and the creative exec, uh, at a big advertising company, super creative guy.

So anyway, overcoming that was a big deal to just kind of

transcend my role in my family.

It was part of the process.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's a big one.

Very relatable too, like that's your label what are you, what are you doing?

Cool.

All right.

So the one question I ask everybody is just like, do you have any

advice or mantra you want to share?

And I know that especially asking certain people in certain professions

don't like to share advice at all, but like just maybe something that

works for you that you think maybe will be helpful for other people.

I mean, yeah, I won't wax poetic for long.

I'll just simply say, I've just learned to not believe in the

concept of failure, honestly.

I just, I feel like all things are just learning opportunities

and, um, you know, uh, life is short, short, take some chances.

Don't be afraid to fall down, you know.

I have a song called learning how to fall, which is just sort of,

that's what it's really about.

And, uh, anyway, yeah, that, that's, that's what I would say.

Yeah.

Cool.

All right.

So the last five questions I have are called the fun five, and

they're just asking everybody.

So the first one is what is the oldest t shirt you have in still wear?

This is not hard.

Um, I have a t shirt that's black and it has five images of Tai

Chi masters in various styles.

stages of poses.

Tai Chi, as you may know, is the ancient Chinese martial art.

And so these are, uh, five different poses.

And, A, it looks really cool.

And I won't lie, back in my late 20s, when I was searching the world for my

soulmate, it was my favorite dating prop.

I don't have a dog that I could march down the boulevard as a conversation piece, but

I did have my Tai Chi shirt and had the secret fantasy that some evolved person

would say, Oh, Tai Chi, you do Tai Chi?

And would lead to a conversation.

And so, yes, did I wear that shirt relentlessly?

I didn't.

Did it work?

I got a couple conversations out of it.

I don't know that I found my true love per se, but it was fun trying.

Yeah.

No, I'll leave it.

Um, okay.

So, cause I'm still, I'm still doing that in my forties and, uh, yeah, I have props.

All right.

So, uh, if every day was really Groundhog's day, like people.

I mean, it's not as much now, but during, during, I wrote this question during the

part of the pandemic when we were locked down, but, um, if it, if it was really

groundhog, groundhog's day, nevertheless, um, what song would you have your

alarm clock set to play every morning?

Yeah, it's a tough one, but you know what I came to

is this, this beautiful piece that the title matches the request here.

The title is called "Opening", which metaphorically fits and this is a

instrumental piece by Philip Glass.

The version I prefer, there's many versions, and the version I prefer is

the electric guitar version, because I play guitar, by an incredible guitarist

by the name of Sergio Sorrentino.

And this is this beautiful, repetitive, hypnotic song, but isn't real new

agey, so it's like, you know, cheesy.

It's just a lot of movement, very sophisticated, even though it's

very repetitive and hypnotic.

So that's what I, that would definitely be what I'd wake up to every morning.

Awesome.

All right, cool.

And then coffee or tea or neither?

Coffee, always.

Yeah,

And finally, my sister has, uh, given me grief for years

because I, I drank light, wimpy coffee and she's traveled the world where

they only drink strong coffee and she finally talked me into drinking the

hard stuff, so I've been converted.

Cool.

I know.

Yeah, it's American coffee's different for sure.

All right, can you think of a time that you laughed sorry you cried

or just something that cracks you up when you think of it?

And this just entertains me really

Yeah, no, no, no, this is an easy one.

Um, I don't think I've ever laughed more hysterically, and I still, every time

I think about it, it just cracks me up.

And this is the scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

You know what scene I'm going to tell you.

It's the, the Black Knight scene when he chops off the arm and

blood goes splurting everywhere.

Ah, flesh wound.

He chops off the other arm.

And I just, I just find that to be absolutely hysterical.

Yeah, there's nothing left

Exactly.

So stupid.

That's perfect.

All right The last one which i'll see if this one's hard you've been these

questions have been easy for you.

Some people like freak out and that gets cut from the the edit.

But um who inspires you right now?

You know, there's two people that inspire me.

I hope it's okay to do two.

I'll

Yeah, of course.

Unfortunately, they're both cancer related.

Um, the friend that I mentioned earlier, who encouraged me to start

writing music again, a wonderful man by the name of Stephen May is

my best friend for many, many years.

And he actually wrote the instrumental pieces on three

of the tracks on the record.

And I just sang over him.

I sadly, he passed away last year.

Um, rare cancer at a too young age.

And I mentioned him as an inspiration, A, because, you know, he encouraged me

to play music, but really because he's the most creative man I've ever met.

And this is a man that, routinely would complete three fully orchestrated

songs in a week while he's working on one of his four novels, while he

was creating board games while he was doing a cable television show

that he was host, this zany show and taking his children amazing adventure.

I mean, he's extraordinary guy that just had to create, right?

And he just revolved around creativity.

It's just inspiration.

So he's somebody.

And the second person is my mom who's, um, who's fighting

cancer right now and just an inspiration to watch her take it on.

And just sort of honor the whole process, the sadness, but also honoring

sort of the gift of, of the time she has and, uh, being fully alive and

not getting stuck in the hard stuff.

So those are the two big inspirations.

Yeah.

yeah, well, sorry about the loss of your friend and, um,

Yeah.

Thank you.

you're honoring him by continuing to do the music.

So, yeah, and hopefully your mom gets, gets through this.

Thank you.

cool.

Well, so Michael, I mean, it's, it's been awesome to talk to you.

It's been really fun and, just, You're so chill.

You're so calm.

So it's, it's just, um, just easy.

Uh, so I just want to make sure we, we state like, where do you

want people to go to find you, your website or wherever else?

Sure.

Thank you.

Um, well, my artist name is M Brady.

The Michael Brady was taken by another musician.

So I became M Brady, M dot Brady.

I might add there is an M Brady on Apple Music that doesn't have a dot.

So M dot Brady will get you to my, um, record on any streaming site; Spotify,

Apple, those are the big ones, obviously.

Um, if you want to check out any of my videos, I do have a

YouTube channel that you can find.

Um, by the search "M Brady music YouTube".

And, uh, then my, you can find all of it actually at my website, which is M

Brady music dot com (mbradymusic.com).

And one of the pieces I'll just mention, if there's any musicians out there

that happened to listen to any of the music and find it interesting, or maybe

even find my voice interesting, I'm, I'm interested in actually doing some

collaboration for my next record where I'm sort of encouraging musicians to

send me instrumental pieces somewhere between two and a half minutes and four.

And if anybody wants to send me anything that is emotional, a

little bit, whatever it moves you.

I sort of like the idea of just sort of seeing what appears musically, when

a body of music lands, I often have this experience when I'm listening

to music and there's a big long intro into a song before the vocals come.

And I'm like, I start hearing a melody in my head right away.

And then I'm like, don't sing yet.

I'm just getting this melody.

And they come in and sing, it's like, ah, I wish I just had this.

No, anyway, I'm kidding.

But I, I, I just love sort of just seeing what appears and it

takes me a while to create my own music cause I'm, I'm self taught.

So it might take me many more hours than, than someone else.

If somebody just hands me some, some music it's like, Oh, boom, we can make a song.

So feel free to contribute.

You can find a place to, to send me an instrumental, um, song on my website under

the collaborate on my navigational bar.

Awesome.

Cool.

Thank you, Michael.

Really appreciate you being on More Than Work.

It was really great to be here.

Thank you.

All right.

Take care.

You can learn more about the guest and what was

talked about in the show notes.

Joe Maffia created the music you're listening to.

You can find him on Spotify at Joe M A F F I A.

Rob Metey does all the design, for which I am so grateful.

You can find him online by searching Searching Rob, M-E-T-K-E.

Please leave a review if you like the show and get in touch if you

have feedback or guest ideas.

The pod is on all the social channels at At More Than Work Pod

(@morethanworkpod) or at Rabiah comedy (@RabiahComedy) on TikTok.

While being kind to others, don't forget to be kind to

yourself.