Welcome to the Construction Disruption Podcast, where we

uncover the future of design, building, and remodeling.

I'm Todd Miller of Isaiah Industries, manufacturer

of specialty metal roofing and other building materials.

Today my co host is Ethan Young.

How are you doing, Ethan?

I'm doing good, Todd.

How are you doing?

I'm doing well also and so good.

We're just going to dive right into it today.

Um, I don't think we really had anything special to share, did we?

No, I think we're ready to get going.

We're excited to have this guest though.

Let's do it.

Well, today's guest is actually a return guest.

One of my favorite guests from season one.

In fact, um, Oh, I do know the one thing I want to remind everyone.

We are doing challenge words.

So you might be on the lookout for any words we use that are unusual.

And, uh, we've all been challenged to work a word or two into the conversation.

And at the end, uh, we will say whether we've been successful or not.

Or not.

So, uh, let's go on.

Our spotlighted guest today is David Applebaum living

and working in Los Angeles.

David has been in his profession as an architect for 40 years at this point.

Um, due to some of his famous clients over the years, David is

known as architect to the stars.

He has also hosted the America's Mansions program on National Geographic Television.

David, it's great to have you back on the

show today.

Oh, it is such a pleasure to be back and to see both of you, Todd and Ethan.

Well, thank you.

I was, it's so funny, I was actually thinking a month ago, gee, I wonder

if they'll ever call me back, because I had such a great time and

it was serendipitous that you did.

Yeah.

Well, we enjoyed the first one, so I'm glad we could get you back.

Good.

Absolutely.

We took a little break there.

We, uh, our first season was like 120 episodes and we decided to take

a little about a three month hiatus.

And so, uh, we're back at it and pleased with that.

Do you have stock in, um,

throat lozenges now?

Yeah, I should.

That's for sure.

Maybe.

Maybe.

Maybe.

So I'm kind of curious.

So last time you were on the show, we talked some about, um, your early

days, uh, in the profession and some of your thoughts on how to make design

meet the needs of the client and create something truly special for them.

But I don't know that we talked much about how you got to be interested

in architecture at the first point.

Um, how did that happen?

Oh, like everything else in my life, it was a bit of a journey.

I mean, I was one of those kids that loved building.

tree houses, and if there wasn't a tree, a fort, and I redecorated the house

every now and then when I was a kid.

Um, I think that my first project that, um, that gave me great satisfaction

was a prank I pulled, excuse me, a prank that I pulled in high school,

where, um, I called in, excuse me,

um, I, uh, So I think one of the great, the time that I remember that I got

great satisfaction out of something semi architectural was a prank that

I pulled in high school, in which, um, I called in subcontractors for,

uh, a carpet company and a painting company and an in commercial furniture

company to come into the library.

Cause it was, it was really bland and it wasn't so much that I was

actually going to get the work done.

I just wanted somebody to pay attention to, the carpet kind of smelled.

And so I created a committee and we actually made a presentation.

The assistant principal in charge of my grade was, shocked and livid when

I, when all these people were coming in to bid contract, uh, carpeting

and furniture and things like that.

And, um, and I acted like I really knew what I was doing.

And in the end they actually did make some changes in the, uh, in the library.

And I remember that gave me a lot of satisfaction, but to be Um, I

was, I didn't really think at that time about becoming an architect.

I just had a lot of, Curiosity and thoughts about what I wanted to spend

the rest of my life doing and I walked around with a little three by five

spiral notebook in my back pocket.

And when I met an adult, especially someone I knew and trusted, I would

say, so what is it that you do again?

And.

What background and training and schooling did you need and what do you

like and not like about the profession?

And I realized I didn't, it.

I'm old enough that there was no such thing as a DD back then.

You were just, you know, disruptive in class . Um, but I knew I didn't like to

read, so I wasn't gonna become a lawyer and I wasn't going to become a doctor.

Um, but I didn't know what I wanted to do and I took an aptitude test.

In 10th grade, at the end of 10th grade.

And the guy said, you've got a very unusual score because

you're very high in math.

You're very high in creativity.

You're very high in people's skills.

What's a profession that lets you be, you know, an artist and a

professional and work with people.

And he said, you know, if there was such a thing as a vice president in charge

of creativity, which there is now.

But there wasn't then, um, that would be a great job.

And we started brainstorming and architect was a job that was nine to

five and creative and dealt with people.

And it just seemed like a good idea.

And I just kind of stuck with it.

Very cool.

So you're one of those rare situations where the guidance counselor

actually suggested something helpful and you landed there.

That's good.

I hope that wasn't too loud, but yeah, yeah, not, not a bunch of pamphlets.

Just a hey.

And so I had to go back to my junior high school to take the test in

one of those temporary buildings.

And it was like kind of, it was, it's a, it's a long battery of tests.

It was like having to take an SAT that you don't really need, but it was

probably more valuable than the SAT.

Interesting.

So I remember when my son was going through that a few years ago, he

did one of those aptitude tests at school and it came back and told

him he should be a bus driver.

Now, nothing against bus drivers.

Um, Ethan knows my son though, and I think you'll agree.

Yeah, that probably wasn't a good

choice for him.

Evan's skills are definitely elsewhere.

He definitely has some great skills, but I don't think bus drivers is calling.

He doesn't even like to drive across town.

Okay.

Well, so over your years, um, and, and I saw you kind of scoff when

I mentioned it's been 40 years and you and I are the same age.

So, uh, we're, we've been at this the same time.

But doesn't

it sometimes feel like you just started?

Oh, absolutely.

I would also say COVID did a little bit to kind of reinvigorate because I don't

know what it's like for you, but for me, work is very much like the carousel,

the merry go round, the, you know, it's always moving and you got to jump on.

And once you're on, you're on.

But we had a little bit of a economic hiccup before COVID.

Yeah, COVID did.

And it kind of knocks everybody off the carousel.

And then with COVID, I remember thinking once COVID was starting to, um, Open up.

And there's some other things that I'm sure we'll get into later on, but

I kind of felt like I was in my late twenties again, starting all over again

with small jobs, not big jobs, because that was really all that was available.

And it's, it's been very interesting to kind of come back with that.

You know what, this is why I do it.

And.

I, I now I'm at a point where I want to take the job because I like

the clients or I like the challenge and not because I need the work.

Um, Frank Lloyd Wright once was asked, well, or once was told

in an interview, well, you know, of course you do great work.

You've got rich clients.

And Frank Lloyd Wright said, If my client wants something really

special and unique and of my point of view, I would do a chicken coop.

I don't care about the budget.

I care about the project.

I don't know if that was really true.

It's true for me.

Yeah.

Well, over your career, I'm curious, you know, what are some of the changes you've

seen and how do you feel about them?

Well, that's funny.

That was a great transition into what it was, uh, that I was referring to before.

My biggest problem is corporate flippers, or I should say my

biggest distaste for the profession right now is corporate flippers.

It used to be one thing that.

Planned communities had houses that all looked the same, but right now in

Los Angeles, the nicest neighborhoods look like planned communities.

Ah, interesting.

They are these oversized McMansions.

That, um, when I, when I became divorced and I had to look for a home, I was

looking for a home that I could renovate and work on, and I was always being

outbid for cash for, with a price that was much higher than it should be.

By all these corporate flippers 20 years ago, normally what happened is I would

get a phone call with somebody saying you were recommended as an architect.

My family would like to move to X neighborhood and we've started looking at

properties and we have 4 that we kind of like, and we would like your guidance as

to whether we should renovate tear down.

What the timing would be, but we liked the neighborhood.

We liked the school district.

And so you would go and you would meet with them and you'd give them

the pros and the cons, they'd pick one and a year or two, two later,

they would move into a custom home.

Those projects do not exist anymore.

The corporate flippers have come in and bought them often.

And I don't want to get into this, but before it hits the market, and then

It is, well, you know, the other thing that I don't like, and I'll get back

to it, is the permitting process, um, but they will say, hey, you have done

this one, you've approved it 74 times, it's the exact same thing, let's make

it 75, and they get a permit like that.

Because it's all, building and safety is just looking to, they don't care

about aesthetics, they care about the public welfare and safety.

And so they get a permit, but then a lot of these guys do things illegal,

like they said the house was 56 feet wide and that with the 10 foot and

10 foot side yards, it's a 76 foot.

Property line to property line.

In reality, the house is a 56 feet wide.

It's 60 feet wide.

And what ends up, or as a certain person who has two supermodels as

daughters and got a permit for a.

24, 000 square foot house in Bel Air and was building a 60, 000

square foot house in Bel Air.

And big dirt trucks were coming in and out in Bel Air, the most expensive

neighborhood in Los Angeles with the most rich clients in Los Angeles.

They, they put a stink to it.

Did they stop the project?

That's it.

No, they slapped his wrist with a million dollar fine, which

considering that he sold the property for 100 billion, big whoop.

Okay.

Um, but they changed the building code.

And now we are limited to how much dirt we can go, instead of following the rules

or, or, um, uh, enforcing the rules, they then make the rules more draconian,

which then goes back to my problem with the flippers, because they find a

slimy way Let's not, let's change that.

Let's, let's recalibrate my words to they find a slick way to get

something in and permitted and they get a permit within a month.

I had a project that took 2 years to get a permit because

it's on an irregular street.

It's on a substandard street.

It's in the hillside.

And so.

What used to be a one, a one to two year building process is now a two to four

year building process for me on the few properties that are available for work.

So to me, the biggest problem is departments of building and safety

don't have the guts or the teeth to enforce intelligent building codes

and make everything worse for us.

I'm doing a project in Texas.

I think I mentioned this last time, but doing a project in Texas.

The building code in Houston, Texas is 20 pages long in Los Angeles,

California, it's 20 volumes long.

Yeah.

And some of those volumes have seven or eight binders.

I don't even know, I don't even know how to get a building permit anymore.

That doesn't take a lot of time and a lot of, and often my clients have to hire

a, um, an expediter and I have a couple of expert expeditors, but guess what?

They cost almost as much as me.

So it's just, it's very, you know, at one point you're probably going

to say, so what do you have to say to young architect, a young

future potential architects?

It's tough, man.

It's tough.

I could probably.

I could probably, um, monetize my business by doing what these other

people are doing and just doing the same old block thing over and over

and over again and repeating it.

We're doing some, I have a lot of contractors that will say, David, your

favorite architect, not because of your design, but because you answer

the phone when something goes wrong.

If I'm doing a set of drawings for houses, at least 20 sheets.

large.

You make mistakes.

There are things that don't work.

So I'm there.

What most architects do is they do a drawing where the plans don't meet the

elevations, don't match the sections, but they do it, they do it quick, they get

it over with, and then they don't answer the phone to take care of the problems.

And so if you're old school like me, and you care about every aspect

of it, You're kind of a dinosaur.

And so if you, if you're willing, I realize in architecture school, so

in architecture school, we learn the history of architecture and it takes

two semesters to get through it.

And the book is about yay thick.

The portion of famous architects from even a hundred years ago is that much.

And I realized I don't want to be famous.

I just want to work.

I just want to make my clients happy.

I just want to give them their kind of project and I want to do it well

and I want to be proud of what I do.

That's all I want.

I just want to stay busy.

I, I, I kind of think the secret to life is find something you

like to do and stay busy with it.

And that's what I wanted.

I wanted to be happy and making clients happy.

makes me happy.

So, um, I realized then I am not going to take the path to fame.

So glad I didn't.

Um, and I just, again, I just want to do good work.

So it's, I know this is a very convoluted answer and I apologize,

but it's, the trends have made it that it's harder to be an architect,

but I will bet that the trends.

have made it so it's harder to be anything right now.

Can you imagine being a doctor and all that paperwork and insurance stuff?

And I mean, I, it's, I think it's just tough.

So my message to any prospective anything is find something that you really like.

Yeah, because you're going to have to have that patient

and desire to see you through all the difficulties of doing it.

And pick

a

trade.

I would say actually pick a trade because when you talk

about trends, I think one of the weirdest things, it's hard to find

contractors because they're having a hard time finding subcontractors.

Absolutely.

You know, it, there, there are no young plumbers, there are no

young electricians, there are no young.

plasterers or not.

I mean, it's, it's, I feel like I'm, uh, what's his name?

Mike Rowe.

Um, if you really want to do something with your life, I

swear, become a plumber, man.

There's all, there's, there's an unlimited air conditioning, electrical work.

There's an unlimited amount of work out there for you.

No, absolutely.

There sure is.

I'm doing work at my own.

I'm doing work at my own place.

There's paint all over my fingers because I couldn't get a painter.

I mean, I could get a painter in three months, but I couldn't get one now.

And so I had to, there's some things I won't do.

I won't do electrical.

Will not.

Um, I've shocked myself enough times.

The second time was like, okay, from now on, I don't care what

it is I'm calling an electrician.

I occasionally will do some plumbing, but very minor.

Fine cabinetry?

No.

But a lot of other things I can, I can do.

Yeah.

And, and I want to do it.

I think that's another interesting thing about me.

I don't know if everybody else does it.

I like, I actually, in, in my architecture school days, I spent

my summers and the year off between undergraduate and graduate working.

That was so quick.

I could, I need to recalibrate my, um, Um, I spent all of my summers

and the year in between undergraduate and graduate school of architecture

school working construction because you gotta know how it works and why.

And I personally, I've been told that besides answering the phone, I'm always

going to the job sites and I talk.

To everyone.

And I want to know, is there a new way of flashing the windows?

Is there a different way of doing anything?

Should I have chosen a metal roof instead of, you know, choosing a slate roof?

And, and things change.

We, in, in, in California, we have so many energy concerns that Everything

is transitioning to all electrical, no gas allowed in Los Angeles anymore,

and our HVAC, our air conditioning and heating, is now ductless.

We now have these split ductless setups that are ugly as sin.

But they're efficient.

You know, I have to think that that's great that you spent that time

in college working on construction sites.

Because I have to imagine that there are some architects out

there who are intimidated by the thought of being on a job site.

Um, just because of lack of familiarity with the job site.

That hands on aspect,

we live in a world where no one wants to admit that they're wrong.

I think that's a part of being old school also is um Nobody wants to prove their

nobody wants to admit that they're wrong.

And I think that That's how you fail.

I

think even that people sometimes don't want to admit that they

don't know, you know, that's maybe they view it as a weakness or a vulnerability,

but just being able to admit that, I don't know the answer to this.

I don't know.

You know, that could go along.

I don't know if you're right

about that, Ethan.

I don't know.

Well, you've referred to yourself a couple of times

as an old school architect, and I like the sound of that.

Um, tell us a little bit more of what that means to you, or are there any particular

Technologies you're seeing today that you are really rebelling against

or, or enjoying.

I mean, I guess the, Oh, wow.

You know, it's so funny.

I think there are a lot of musicians that are old school, but they're young.

Most of my old school is just, you know, when you say old school architect,

all I can think of is, Oh my gosh, I can't stand up from my chair.

My knees hurt.

Just so I will first.

Let's, let's be positive first.

There's some things that have occurred that I love.

Um, I actually love all this zoom technology and.

Face timing or Google view or whatever it's called, uh, with, with, uh, with

the Android products, um, you know, I've got this project in Texas and I

don't have to be physically on the job site all the time I've got to, I've

got clients meeting with a group of contractors and they have to, they had a

family emergency and they're in Montana.

Well, instead of waiting two weeks, we're going to do it all virtually.

And.

You know, in California, gasoline is 5 a gallon and my projects are

an hour's drive away sometimes.

So it's a, I, I save two hours, um, and expense sometimes

by doing things virtually.

So I like that.

I can also.

I would like to now add that I might have to stop because the garbage truck just

showed up and when it backs out of my street, you might hear a lot of beeping.

So, um, I thought about getting one of those for myself, by the way.

Oh, well, I, I'm the clumsiest guy in the world.

I trip over everything.

I back into everything.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There's a reason why I don't do electrical work.

Well, I don't either.

So, um, uh, so I like that part of technology a lot.

Um, however, there's an Italian style of drawing.

Oh, I can't remember the name.

It's got the, it's got char.

In it, but it taught, it's all about the shadows in the drawing.

Is it chiaroscuro or something?

Oh, you are.

Yes.

Thank you.

That's exactly what it is.

That should be the secret word.

But I could have never come up with it because I forgot what it was.

And it's funny.

It's something that I do in my life a lot.

I don't necessarily remember the word, but I know the intention.

And the whole idea of having it be about the shadows, and I love modern art, and

I love modern architecture, and I love crisp lines, and I love simplicity.

But if you look at a Le Corbusier building, It's not as sharp and

machined as you might imagine.

It's got a lot of hand laid brick.

And if you look at a Rothko painting, it's very simple, but the edges all bleed.

Um, I just went off topic.

So let me recalibrate and go back to where I need to be, which is, um, there's

something about intention, hand building.

Um, focus, personal perspective that I feel is starting to be missed in this

kind of launching off of when I said, I don't like how a lot of architects

in order to try and become profitable, they do this much of the work and just

hope somebody figures it out for them.

Um, I just, I can't work that way.

Um, and so, you know, we have now these computer rendered 3d drawings,

which I don't like because if you look at an MC Escher drawing, it looks

three dimensional, but it's not, you can see how you can lie in those.

And there's also this now 3d model building.

And where you get, I guess it has an epoxy or a glue or

something and it just builds it.

But I build models and the models that I build are out of very thin

cardboard because I design using those three dimensional tools.

Architecture is not flat.

It's not a painting.

It's not a drawing.

It's, it's not two dimensional.

It's three dimensional.

And so I use models Because I find it so funny how it's like, oh yeah, what

about, I think a lot of architects design what I call postcards.

It's a beautiful flat image of the front, but then you go to the side or you walk

up to it and the perspective changes.

I mean, I, this is a model that I built of a project that

I'm doing in Houston, Texas.

And.

It's one of the, so this is it from the street and the thing is,

it's got a yard and you can walk around it and you can hopefully see

in this how what started here is coming down and then coming back up.

And then around and then becomes a part of everything.

And so this is a side that you don't really see.

Sorry.

It's a little boring, but this is the backyard and this

is the side yard, which is.

Spacious and this is the front.

And the thing is, if I just design this, this actually is pretty boring in

my opinion, but as soon as you're here walking into the house, it stops becoming

boring and it becomes really interesting.

And when you're in the back.

Again, it's

very interesting.

It's like an MCS you're drawing there on the back.

Well, funny, funny.

So, so, I mean, I was hoping I could find, because you're the,

you're the roof master there.

Um, when I did Cubic Gooding Jr.

's house, I learned this a long time ago.

When you get the roof right, everything else works.

And he had a huge property.

And you were supposed to even the way even set it up was the way you

drove in the way you walked in.

There was a curving meandering path that took you through it and I had most.

Lazy architects, designers, design, if it's a two story house, a two story entry.

Ooh, that's big, it's massive!

But there's no scale.

So I had a one and a half story portico at the front that allowed you to feel

like you were at human scale, but that roof, as it went up, and then came back

on the, uh, on the gable side of it, then became, uh, A one story veranda

that with the roof of the veranda that wrapped around two thirds of the house.

And so it, it meshed together.

I couldn't have gotten that without building a model, especially because

in order to get that roof to work, my plate lines were always different.

Um, most houses are what I call a wedding cake.

First floor, second floor.

A single gutter line and then a roof like a pizza hut on

top, and I think that's boring.

And so I would break it up anyway, but in this particular house, the master

bathroom toilet room had a ceiling that started at seven foot ten, but pitched up

because I couldn't get the roof to work in all three dimensions without that.

So, um, you know, most cases, the plate line, you know, bedrooms and

stuff were all pretty, pretty similar.

But then, as the roof was being allowed to play, and if you are doing a 3D

model, you have to know exactly what it looks like or you can't build it.

And I want to be surprised.

I want to be delighted with what I discover.

Everything with me is kind of a journey.

So,

yeah, I mean, it makes perfect sense though.

The three of the model kind of lets you block everything out and see, you know,

exactly how you want to do it and be flexible with, Oh, I don't like this.

Let me change this.

You know,

I buy more thin poster board than a third grade craft teacher.

And, you know, it's so funny, um, when I was, uh, one of the jobs that I had before

I went on my own, I was remodeling for Frank Israel, a project that Frank Gehry

had originally designed, and there was an expansion to it, and, um, I didn't own it.

understand the drawings.

And I asked my boss, you know, say on my own time, I'll build a model

of this existing because I don't think we can build the addition.

I mean, Frank Gary's work is very three dimensional.

And I actually thought it was kind of ugly until I started building the model.

And then I was like, Oh, I get this.

Oh, that's why.

And so he wanted the opportunity to have first right of refusal on the direction

that we were going and he walked in and the first thing he said was, Oh,

you built a model to my boss, Frank.

Well, that was smart.

I think that was a really good move.

And Frank said, no, it was David's idea to build a model.

And he looked at me and he said, we designed this thing in model.

We didn't do one drawing for a while.

We just took pieces of corrugated cardboard and cut it with scissors and

ripped it and use scotch tape and glue.

But that's how we came up with this design, which is why you

can't understand it from a drawing.

Have there ever been any times that you even discovered as you

were trying to build the model that.

I can't make this do what I want it to do.

Every time.

Really?

Wow.

Every time the house that I'm doing in Houston, I remember I was with

some of my friends and one of them had brought their kid along and asked

what I did, what I was doing in town.

I'm an architect.

And I said, Oh, look, and I pulled a picture from my phone.

This is what the house is going to look like.

And he said, Oh my God, that's gorgeous.

How'd you come up with that?

And I said, I must've drawn it 580 times.

Frustratingly upset that it wasn't working and that was building a model,

sketching, building a model, putting it on the computer, sketching it again.

I said, so I must have done it now.

I forgot what number I did, but so I'm 580 times.

It was just frustratingly awful.

And then 581, it clicked.

And once it starts clicking, it's kind of like a friend, you know, you can talk

to somebody and know in five minutes.

No.

And they go from party to, you know, the party from person to person, all

of a sudden there's somebody it's like, you've known each other forever,

whatever you're talking about, all fits.

It's just, it just works.

So there's been one project that I walked in and said, Oh,

I know what we're going to do.

And from that moment, it grew from there, but just one, and that was a remodeling

in addition to a really wonderful.

California architect who had done it like 80 years before.

And it was just so clear what to do.

Well, why don't we dig into some stories?

You're always, you weave stories into everything.

And that's one of the things I love about you, David.

But, um, last time we met you told some great stories about, uh, Frank Sinatra

as a client, but any other memorable stories from past clients, maybe.

Famous or not famous, whatever.

Well, one of my, now happy memories, , uh, I was doing a

house in Bel Air, and you know, I, I'm going to say I have done, uh, uh,

eight projects for this guy, including the first one, but he is one tough.

SOB tough kind of mean.

His wife calls him a scoundrel.

Um, so I can, I will actually give you this completely unedited because

it's because you won't know who it is.

So it's okay.

And he's not famous, but you know, people become successful, that

successful by being a bit ruthless.

Um, so.

We were doing a house in Bel Air, one of the most expensive areas where the soil

is terrible and it's all these hills.

And we were doing an addition and a as and a a second floor and all these kinds

of things, and it was a one story house.

And as a two story house, I've already told you I like journey.

Not the band.

No, I do like the band, but I'm not talking about the band.

I'm talking about, I just think life is a journey and so should

the appreciation of where you are.

Um, as a quick aside, people don't understand it, but the elements

of architecture all have meaning.

For instance, columns are there to give you a sense of rhythm and repetition.

So that way, as you're walking, depending on how they're

spaced, you could, you know, Or

Steps are there to make you stop and pay attention to where

you are and where you're going.

To me, a doorknob is a handshake that welcomes you into the next room.

I like to think of all the architecture like that.

So with that in mind, where we were expanding We were right at the precipice

of a downhill drop, so I for sure was not going to build a 30 foot, two story wall

where you had 6 to 8 feet to walk in.

That's it.

So, I had the 1st floor where we're the 1st floor where you thought it should be.

Then I had a.

Balcony.

with columns that was the terrace to the second floor, which then the second

floor stepped back from that first floor so that you had, um, columns,

wall, wall step, wall stepped back.

And that meant that the staircase was in the middle of the house.

And because the staircase was at the.

edge of the wall of the second floor, but that put it in the middle of the

first floor and I'm showing them the design and the wife says, Oh, I think you

have the staircase in the wrong place.

We don't want it in the middle of the house taking over everything.

You have to put it on the exterior wall.

And I said, no, you can't.

And I explained, I said, you're, you're, you're going to have six to eight feet

to walk and you don't want a 30 foot wall, which is what will happen if you

put the staircase up against that wall.

It'll, you want it to step back.

And no, no, no.

And they fought me.

And I said, I refuse.

I was so young.

I can't believe I'm always I'm a, I'm a, I'm a pleaser of my clients.

Whenever you want your house, it's your money.

I will do my best with it.

And I said, it's your house.

It's your money.

I will do my best with it.

But I will not put your staircase on this wall.

I'm putting it here.

You have to trust me.

And if you want it on the exterior wall, you need to find another architect.

I said, I'll, I'll make this offer for you.

I will build a model of this house and show you why.

Said, okay.

And they said, I don't get it.

When I gave them the model, he said, I don't get it, but okay.

We're already this far along.

We don't want to find another architect.

Fast forward to eight months later, the house is now framed and the

staircase is in and the wife comes out.

And says, thank you for putting your foot down.

I get it.

My idea would have been so stupid.

It would have been a block.

It would have been ugly.

So thank you.

Now, the continuation of that, I could stop it there.

A happy ending.

The continuation is the client male turns to me and says, don't listen to her.

I'm the boss of this house.

Don't listen to her.

You're a terrible architect.

Get off my property or fired.

Now, I knew him well enough to know that that was his way of saying he believes

that if he's nice to you, like she was just nice to me, you're gonna start

taking advantage because you know, when you're, we have that much money,

everybody's trying to weasel in, I drive off and the car contractor called me

said, Oh my God, oh my God, are you okay?

I said, I didn't get fired.

If he would have fired me, he would have let me go home

and fired me over the phone.

He made a big thing out of that.

They called me that night and said, so what are we going to

do about this room in that room?

I mean, I was just really lucky that I had the confidence with him because he

was maybe the toughest human being I've ever had to deal with as a client, but.

Like I said, I've done like a dozen things.

I did done like 10 or 11 things for him since, some very small and some not so.

I mean, his prized book collection, there was a leak from upstairs and

it destroyed a bunch of his books.

And so we redid his library and he like called me and said, David, I need you.

I need you badly.

Please come.

And so, you know, step by step now.

And then, you know, there's some personal things that happened after that, but

it was, I consider him a I wouldn't call him a friend, but I would call him

a A familiar and close relationship.

Yeah.

Good,

good deal.

Then of course, if you live in Los Angeles, you go to the movie, you go to

the A MC movie theater and the movie's over and you're in the restroom and

all of a sudden next to you, you look over, it's like, oh my God, it's Mel

Brooks , which I think I must have said out loud, and he said, well, whatever

you do, don't turn around and say hello.

And so we basically spoke in Yiddish accents for about five minutes.

And it was hilarious.

It's very difficult to use the restroom when you're laughing,

but it's just it's just a wonder.

It's a treat.

And then, I mean, I was going to, you know, this is this

actually a really good one.

Um, One of my first projects that I ever did at a graduate

school was for Virgin Records.

They were going to open up an American division of their record company.

And I'm friends with the guy who is going to be the co CEO of this record label.

And they were, they were renting a house with a very small crew to get started and

start picking their artists and all that.

And they found a space and he said, why don't you come by and look at

it and talk to me and my partner about how to make this thing work.

And, um, cause we're going to interview all the famous architects.

We're going to interview Frank Gehry and Morphosis and Errico and Moss.

And we just want to do a run through.

So I went through, went through and told him this is what I would do.

This is, I think this is what you got.

And a month later he called me up and said, my partner's only like you.

Do you want to be our architect?

And so I did this project.

And then it's, I, I designed the vice president's house.

I started working with all of these people in the record industry.

And, um, at the time that I was doing this at the beginning was

there's a documentary on Netflix now.

the greatest night in pop about the, um, we are the world song with

all of the pop stars at the time.

I remember the rumor of it going around and go, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

That sounds, I said, Ooh, I wish I could be there.

No, you can't.

Nobody even knows where it's going to be.

And it's like, well, it's going to be at A& M recording studios.

Nobody's supposed to know that.

How'd

you

know that?

Who told you?

It's like, it's the largest recording studio in all of Los Angeles.

You can't get that many people.

It's got parking behind, a lot of parking behind gates.

It just makes sense.

Okay.

So, um, fast forward to, um, you know, that just, but I worked a lot of record

people, then one of them became Quincy Jones's record company president.

And I designed Quincy Jones's.

record company headquarters and their, um, television, uh,

companies headquarters as well.

Lots of stories with that, but the best one with it was Q.

Um, Quincy Jones.

Um, he had, he didn't care about, he really didn't care about anything except

for, he said, I only have one requirement.

You have to have a piano.

I signed a one year contract with Ray Charles every year.

He's the guy who got me started.

He gave me my first big break.

I love him like a brother.

I will always sign him.

We signed a one year contract.

He comes to the office.

He signs it in person, and then he plays.

And I said, well, I'm not working on this project anymore unless you

promise that when he comes to sign a contract, I'm invited for a site visit.

And so one of the greatest moments of my life was basically being 10

feet from Ray Charles, laughing with Q and playing all of his hits.

Oh, awesome.

I didn't even know it's

serendipitous isn't even a strong enough word for how happy

and lucky I was to be there.

Oh my god.

That was It's, it's tough to go to a concert after you have a one on

one that intimate and close, but it was, I mean, it wasn't one on one.

There were like 60 or 70 of us there, but it was amazing.

So I'm curious at this point in your career.

You know, it seems to me you can be a little bit selective as far as the type

of projects you work on and so forth.

But, um, let me ask a couple of questions.

One is what type of project do you most enjoy working on?

And my follow up question on that, if someone asks you design a self storage

facility, is there anything that they could do that would make that excite you?

Oh, hell yes.

Um, there's a city, Columbus, Indiana, where

the Cummings diesel, uh, engines were designed and probably, and

still are designed and built.

And the, um, the, the people that own that meeting were big fans of architecture.

So they have warehouses and factories that are designed by Eero Saarinen

and Louis Kahn and just the great.

And, um, uh, Louis Kahn actually I just remember did one of my favorite

things he ever did were beach bathroom pavilions, just little

12 by 12 bathrooms at the beach.

Stunning.

I would be happy to do a public storage facility as long as you didn't

want what everybody else is doing.

If you just want to you know, that simple box, then find somebody else.

Cause it's not going to work for me.

But if you want to figure out a way to make public storage a little more fun.

Yeah.

Count me in.

Um, uh, Robert Venturi, the great architect said, there's

Two kinds of buildings.

There's the Long Island duct and the decorated shed and the Long

Island duct is one of the dock.

Not a duct.

We're not doing HVAC.

Um, the Long Island duct is where you have.

a building that looks like what it is that you do.

Like, there's a place in LA called the Tail of the Pup, which is

a big hot dog that opens up and you serve hot dogs from there.

And they also serve hamburgers, so if you want to get a hamburger

out of a hot dog, that's the joke.

That's the place.

And then the decorated shed is really what we're all doing.

And Robert Venturi actually went as far as to make all of his

buildings, for a while, a boxed shed.

Like he actually had to design for the, um, um, what do you call it?

Uh, the NFL hall of fame.

And it was just a box, but it had a huge, and this was before they were as

good as they are now, but an absolutely huge, uh, televised screen in front

that had, was, would always be showing great plays and interviews with the

players as you're walking in, because once you're inside, you're really, now

you choreograph, uh, the experience.

So, yeah, I would be happy to do that.

Um, This actually comes back to the conversation that we had before.

Cause I, I do like doing homes and it's so funny.

On one hand, you said, would I do public storage?

Yes.

A dream would be something I would love to do a chapel or

a contem contem Contemplative?

Contemplative.

Yes.

Are you sure?

A thoughtful space.

Thoughtful.

There you go.

That's part inside and part outside.

Like a chance to do something like the Wayfarer's Chapel.

Or Ronchamp by Le Corbusier.

I would love everything with music journey.

So if I could make it in some way, that every step you take changes your

experience builds upon the experience.

That would be serendipitous.

I hope I get that.

I don't know if it'll ever happen.

But man, you know, every everybody listening to this,

put your positive thoughts out.

David wants to do a poetry garden.

So, uh, that's, so those are the ends of the spectrum.

I do prefer doing residential over commercial.

I do commercial, I did a record company, several, several record companies,

because these are people that are interested in beautiful, special design.

I did a restaurant in Hong Kong and, um, I really, whoa, my God, we designed

everything from choosing the plates and the forks and the napkins to the building.

Um, I was actually offered a job at one point to be the design

director for Starbucks and I was absolutely excited about it.

because, but if I was going to do it my way, or if I was going to have

some strong input, um, it's so funny.

I was, when I was there and interviewing Howard Schultz, the chairman was

looking at ideas for, this is how long ago it was, drive throughs.

They were now deciding they wanted to do drive throughs.

It was that long ago.

And I'm standing there kind of off to the and I'm looking at all these

designs and Howard looks at me and he says, Well, he says, I like all of them.

I don't love any of them.

And then he looks over at me and says, okay, you're interviewing to

do some design work around here.

Give, give me something to go on.

I said, the problem is you have created a coffee experience.

Starbucks is not about the coffee as much as it is about the experience.

It's something that tastes delicious.

You wait in line, you smell it, you make your order.

You have this path that's choreographed with tea bags and mugs and CDs.

Remember CDs?

Oh, yeah.

And, um, and it's all part of an experience.

I said, all you're looking at is a McDonald's or a KFC or a Pizza

Hut that just has the awnings and green trappings of Starbucks.

You haven't created the experience.

And I said, here's what I would do.

And I came up with this idea where you would have a sculpture On the

outside of the building doesn't have again, decorated shed, the

building doesn't have to be anything.

You could make it a Long Island duck and make it look like a mug.

Okay, or it could just be a box.

It doesn't matter.

But now let's put a ring of columns around it.

And if you want to have them.

Sculptural, so they look like wafts of steam, but now

remember, I told you a column.

Gives you rhythm.

It also can give you a sense of enclosure without.

claustrophobically locking you in.

I said, let's put these columns around, but far enough away that they're at

a, you know, when you drive up, you're maybe doing eight miles an hour.

So you have them farther apart, but as you're stuck a little bit closer,

you know, so that you feel it, but now you're in between perforated

skin and waiting for your coffee.

And you're in line, you're queued in a choreographed way, the same

way that you are when you're inside waiting for the coffee.

And that was with us ago, that was really good.

And then I won't get into the politics that made me say no.

But, um, uh, see that kind of, it's so funny that goes back to

your public storage, because I'd be happy to do a drive through.

It just has to have, some essence to it that has personality and

meaning and purpose and design.

So when I'm, I have a certain, so I will do commercial if they'll

let me go in that direction.

Uh, usually in residential, that is a given.

Like somebody loves to cook.

I'm doing a house right now in West Hills.

And the wife is, she makes fudge, she makes gumbo, she makes

bread, she makes everything.

So the kitchen is really important.

And the fun that I'm having with her in creating a kitchen

that she will adore and enjoy.

And make her life easier.

That's, that, that, that's, that's why I do mostly residential.

And those are the kinds of clients and projects that I look

for.

I enjoy good stuff.

You know, you're talking about Starbucks and it's made me think

of something I was thinking about a couple of days ago when Starbucks first

started spreading across the country.

I mean, I would be traveling and I would seek out the Starbucks.

I, I found it to be a very special experience and I don't get that anymore.

I don't know if it's because.

The experience isn't there because I now expect more, but I love what you're

talking about as far as designing spaces that transport you someplace else.

And I was thinking a little bit, you mentioned chapels.

I thought a little bit about, I think it's, um, church of the Holy cross outside

of Sedona, um, up in, in the red rocks, I think it was maybe designed by a Frank

Lloyd Wright student or something, but

yes.

Um, you know, that's just such an experience to visit

that and, um, Oh, just amazing.

Amazing what you can do

with design.

If any kind of project like that, like you're part of a college campus

is, I think that what's happened with Starbucks is part of what I

said with Starbucks people was you've got more Starbucks than there are.

I mean, you go in a city, there's Starbucks within five minutes of.

one from the other from the other.

How are you going to sustain that?

And how are you going to continue to make it comfortable and have personality?

And I had some ideas.

I wanted to do a kit of parts where everything, um, everything did match,

but part of the problem I had with Starbucks, and I didn't really get it

until I was in Seattle interviewing because it was misting and gray.

The furniture at Starbucks was all crushed velour, like really stuff

that made you feel warm and in Seattle that makes perfect sense, but that

does not work in Miami in Miami.

You need to be using things like Naga hide and, you know, something that you can get

suntan oil on or something that isn't, it doesn't make you feel warm and stuffy.

Cool.

And so I wanted to kind of have a kit of parts so that if you go from one Starbucks

to the other, there is similarity.

There is the same graphics, there's the same color scheme, but Texas can

have corrugated metal because they're big in that, you know, and, um,

and Florida can have something that has more like a, uh, um, the, the,

the, the weaved grass kind of look.

And then in Chicago, you can have.

leather or fake leather and then, you know, and, and crushed

velour and things like that.

But it's, it's different in all of them.

And you can actually get a new experience with every store that you

go to yet always feel comfortable.

I think that, as I said, most jobs are getting more challenging.

I think when you have a behemoth, like the way Starbucks is now with ice creams

and, uh, so many products, I think you end up forgetting where you came from.

I even remember.

reading six months ago that Howard Schultz, who's now retired and

the emeritus CEO said, Hey, we have to remember where we came

from and get back to our roots.

And you know what, I always, from that first conversation I had with him, which

was short, but I really admire that guy.

He, and he's not there anymore.

And I think that's another reason why you don't feel the same because it's missing

his personality and it's more corporate.

Yeah.

Very interesting.

And Starbucks will never let me into another one of their

stores again for saying that.

So, switching gears a tiny bit, um, someone just walked

into a building that you designed.

What are some adjectives that you'd like to imagine them using to describe

the building or the experience?

Well, first of

all, I would love for them to not even know

I had anything to do with it.

I mean, I know that's going to sound really weird, but I told you

I'm not interested in being famous.

It's just me.

When I, when I do a house, like the, the house I just described

with the woman who's got the, the wife, Diane, let's just, let's

be, you know, let's make it true.

Diane loves to cook.

Okay.

And then I'm doing another house where these people are the most

fun, creative people I know.

And it's all about pizzazz and energy.

And I want people to walk into the house.

What I want to hear them say is, Hey, Fill in the blank of her name.

It might be, this is so you, this is you, I see you all over this house.

I don't want my fingerprints on it.

I want theirs.

However, I would love for them to say, wow, I would love for them

to say, I feel so comfortable.

I've gotten so many compliments from my clients.

My favorite one was when Cuba Goody Jr.

called me and said, my sister just came over for Christmas.

And after opening the presents, she just curled up and fell asleep

on the floor in the living room.

And I know that that sounds silly, but you've created a comfortable

home where people can be themselves.

And that is what I wanted.

And I didn't even tell you, and you gave it to me.

And my family is growing up here, and I feel the love all the day, every day.

That's, that's what I want.

I want people to be comfortable.

I want people to feel safe.

I want them to feel inspired.

And I want them to feel like they saw something really beautiful.

Or, I shouldn't say, I don't, ugh, I hate it, I'm so upset with myself.

Not that they saw.

Something beautiful that they experience experience, something,

a beautiful space and a beautiful view and a beautiful experience.

Um, that's good stuff.

And I have no doubt you're doing that for your clients just because

of your process and, uh, the way that you, uh, care for them.

I'm not easy.

You know, there's a lot of clients that don't want that.

They just want.

Give me the, I get so many clients, potential clients that call me.

Oh my gosh.

One of the things I hate is how much junk email I get, and I'm getting

at least 20 or 30 emails a day from we want to, um, um, what is it?

That's it.

They not budget, but, uh, They're, they're going to break down all the costs.

They're going to be able to give me breakdowns on the

costs for all of my products.

It starts with an E.

What are my estimators?

We're project estimators.

And it's like,

I'm an architect.

I don't, that's not part of my purview, but Oh my God.

Um, but I get a lot of.

Junk email, that's one of them.

Um, and a lot of them are for websites.

We can give you more traffic on your website.

I don't want traffic on my website because the traffic on my website

will be how much do you charge?

We live in an Amazon.

World where everybody's looking for a deal, a deal, a deal, a deal.

And sometimes a deal is not what you want.

How many times do you buy that 1, 000 sofa?

Let me take that back.

That 500, 600 sofa that three years from later is, three years

from purchase, is stained, is ripped, the fabric is stretching

in a weird way, it smells funny.

If you want cheap, if you want quick, if you want what everybody else

has, there are lots of other people.

But that's not me.

And I'm not easy.

And I'm, I actually have a contractor who.

built some cabinets that I have to say to him, you can't do that on the

next project or I will never work with you again, ever, ever, ever.

You gotta, you, you, we had to fix a lot of this.

Wow.

It's not happening.

It can't.

Well, you touched on earlier, but I will ask you this question.

Any advice for younger folks interested in architecture as a career?

I'd be interested in having a conversation with

younger people about pretty much everything when it comes to life.

Um, uh, I think it's important to do what you love and love what you do.

My.

Business has a, uh, David Applebaum architect.

It's byline is live where you love, love where you live.

And I think that's important in everything in life.

And I think life is tough.

So you got to pick something that you love so much that it doesn't

matter if you don't make money.

Um, Architecture is also the kind of field in which if you work for one

of the big corporate offices, there might be 600 people working there.

There's only five people designing.

So what about the other hundreds of people?

You have to feel really good that you're contributing to

something that you believe in.

Um, I really don't know what to say because I remember when I went into

architecture, a lot of architects said, run, don't get into this field.

It doesn't make any money.

It's a lot of hours.

It's very thankless.

And it probably, it's probably worse now.

I mean, I'd always thought if I was really good, I didn't have to

worry about those things, but you do have to worry about those things.

It's, it's, it's

wow.

I don't know how to answer this one, because if it's

something you really want to do.

It's interesting because when COVID and just before that, the big economic hit,

a recession that we had came about, I have, I'm still in touch with a lot of

my architecture school professors and administrators and the top 20 percent

of the students, the most creative, the hardest working, none of them went into

architecture for about eight years.

They all went into animation.

Because they were, um, uh, because so many of the things that we do with the

computer renderings and such, uh, all of the Disney's and Pixar's and 20th

Century Fox's were paying three times as much to become a digital animator.

and storyteller.

And in a lot of ways, it's very similar.

You're building a story.

You're building uh, understanding and um, whether it's a, whether it's a movie

or whether it's a building, it's, it, in my opinion, they're very similar.

And a lot of the best talent went there.

I can't blame them.

And if I would have graduated, then I probably would have been tempted

to go in that direction as well.

I think it's important to be flexible.

I think it's important to Make the, it's important to understand

that it's okay to make a mistake.

Hopefully life is long and we will all have chances to correct

any missteps that we have.

Um, I don't dislike what I do.

I have, I have a girlfriend now that's always telling me how she loves having a.

She just, she loves hearing about what it is that I do because she just

thinks that the talent that goes into it is just, I kind of forgot about, I'm

only, I'm not trying to pump myself up, but I forgot what it is that I really

do, which is creating for people.

And so when she'll ask me questions about what I'm doing and remind me,

How I'm taking care of people and how I have a trick to do this or whatever.

Did you notice you have a view?

Look at this tree.

We need to put the window here and she'll just smile at me and

tell me how great I'm doing.

And it's not that it's that it reminds me why I'm doing what I'm doing and And

how that's where I need to find my joy.

It's not my bank account and it's not my roster of clients.

It's doing something that hopefully makes the world a better place in

a very solid and substantial way.

Cause where you live, where you work, where you worship, where you

enjoy yourself, they all need places.

And instead of just being a box and thinking that storage lockers

need to always be like egg cartons.

Then if you can do something more, you can make the world a better place.

Love it.

Well, David, this has been great.

Thank you.

Great time together always.

And we will do it again.

But before we wrap up, I have to ask you if you're willing to, uh, subject

yourself to our rapid fire questions.

You did these last time.

I'm scared, but very willing.

Well, we chose different questions for you, so.

I don't even know if I remember.

Well, David has no idea what we're about to ask him

in our seven rapid fire questions.

So let's go, let's go for it.

You want to ask the first one, Ethan?

Yeah,

I can do

that.

All right, question one, um, who has been a favorite teacher of yours over the

years and what do you remember them for?

Rodney Hill, recently retired Texas A& M,

first year, first design class.

All about lateral, everything I just talked about, lateral thinking, finding

different ways to attack a problem, being creative, always in whatever it is that

you do, exercises every single week.

It's a little, I hope I can fit all of this in, but I remember For

instance, one time, he had us design a friend of his invented an energy

drink, and it was delicious hot and cold, and we should come up with this

inventive way to enjoy this beverage.

And then he took it to bring to his friend, and then a month later in class,

he said, this kind of gives it away, but everybody, you're tired, let's just have

some fun, everybody design a coffee mug.

And everybody's coffee mug looked like a freaking coffee mug.

And then he had us put it on the wall, and then he had us

put this other thing that we do.

He says, what's the difference between coffee and an energy drink

that is enjoyed hot and cold and is savoring, broke down what coffee was.

And I think of him and that every day, and I am so grateful I met him

and that I'm still friends with him.

Long live Rodney Hill.

That's a cool story, yeah.

Question number two.

What is your favorite sushi roll?

My girlfriend that I was talking about has a, uh, master's

degree from Stanford in Asian Studies and has spent a lot of time, uh, in Japan.

And she and I make hand rolls.

Uh, that are, that's so much fun to make them and eat them and,

and hear the stories that she has.

And so I've had a lot of wonderful sushi and she, I love it when she

comes in, just sneak in a little Japanese and throw them off.

And there's a secret she taught me that, that it's the, it, or has shared with me,

taught me that it's the simple things that are, that show a great, Sushi restaurant.

So we'll go to a place that's supposedly very highly rated.

And she will ask in Japanese for an egg omelette, little

square egg and pickled gourd.

And if they do that, right, first of all, they then, uh oh, and they really

go out of their way to be perfect.

Um, but.

The simple answer is the sitting around our table with kind of combinations of an

omelette and a tuna yellowtail and just making it and lots of different kinds of

pickles.

For you, it's the experience and that's what you live to

give to people too.

Sounds awesome.

Alright, question three.

What's a funny childhood memory that you would like to share?

Boy, you stumped me on that one.

A funny

childhood memory that I would like to share?

I can't think of anything.

Wow.

Let's either come back to that or we'll have to come up with another one.

I don't, I mean, it's lightning round, but I'm just, I'm blocked.

I don't have a funny childhood memory.

Maybe it's serendipitous in that when you do think of that,

we'll bring you on for another episode.

How's that?

Okay.

Yes.

You'll have to, I'm having a block.

Um, next question.

If you could invite any three people to be your guest at dinner,

who would those three people do?

Just for a fun dinner?

A, a alive or dead?

Or could, could be, could be a mixture.

Wow.

That's another, I mean, I'm, I'm heavy, like I want Einstein to be there.

There you go.

It's so funny because I'm thinking there's all these architects.

You know what?

Ray and Charles Eames.

I know that counts as two, but I'm going to only count them as one.

I just think that would be such a fun conversation.

I have a feeling they like food as much as I do.

And this is to dinner.

So, um, this one is kind of a little bit of a cheat, but there's so many things I

want to talk to Frank Sinatra about again.

I would love to have dinner with him right now and catch

up on what has happened since.

That would, that would be a conversation that would go on for a day.

I would.

Love that.

Oh my god.

He'd be making peppers and Hoboken sausage for you, though.

Yes, well,

fine.

I wouldn't care.

I did, it's I love eating, but sometimes the food is secondary.

But thank you for remembering.

Alrighty, next one.

Um What's a weird fact that you happen to know that most people wouldn't know?

You've got

some tough ones.

A weird This actually, wow, this just came up and now I can't even remember

what it is, you know, I don't know what it's like for you, but when you

get older, the memory just starts to, um, um, oh, I mean, okay, so there

was just an earthquake in New Jersey.

And, uh, really close to Manhattan.

And my girlfriend is doing something for Toyota in New York.

And she said there was an earthquake and everybody was yelling and

screaming and she didn't feel it.

And I said, that's because your room is near the bottom of the hotel.

The top of the, it's like a fishing pole, the top of the, the top,

the top of the building is doing this, but, but, you know, but

down here, it's not doing so much.

And so

she said, That, you know, all of these dumb little

things that are, she didn't say dumb.

I'm saying dumb, but you know, all these things that, no, it's like,

well, yeah, but that was part of.

Structural studies.

So thank you for that, sweetheart.

Otherwise it would not, I would have been stumped.

Okay.

I can do better.

These can be, I can, I'm going to be funnier.

Let's go.

Would you rather be a whale or a lion?

Ooh, you know what?

I think I'd like to be, I was just thinking about this.

I'm going back to the food thing because if you're a whale,

there's always plankton to eat.

If there's a, if you're a lion, you have to, you could be

weeks before you see a gazelle.

Okay.

So, um, I also think it'd be floating would be cool.

Those noises they make are kind of nice.

I mean, it's so funny.

I mean, my first thought was, Oh, I want to be a lion king of the jungle, but

you know what, I'd rather be a whale.

I totally get it.

Yeah.

You can rise up under someone's boat and

give them a big surprise.

You

know, When I was in graduate school, my last year, when

we were doing thesis studies, I didn't have anything to do, but thesis.

And it was just, it was so grueling.

So I took a scuba diving class.

So I'd have one moment during the week where I wasn't.

And it, where I was in fear of my life, um, and I would completely

get my mind off of my project and it was a very smart move to make.

And we did a couple of, we did three dives and in one there was

a whale and my friends and I were like, let's go swim towards it.

And we're starting to, and it gets, as you realize how huge they are, as

you get closer and that tail of it.

starts moving and you're thinking it, he doesn't have to do

anything but brush up against you.

And he would probably knock all your equipment off.

So we all kind of got scared at the same time and like, okay, that's close enough.

Good answer.

All righty.

Uh, last question.

Did you make a new year's resolution this year?

And if so, and you're comfortable talking about it, how is it going for you?

I'm one of those people that believes that every day is the

first day of the rest of your life.

So I never make a new year's resolution.

But I always make resolutions on random days.

And my most recent resolution was to just let things play out.

That I'm a very, let me fix it.

Let me take care of it.

Let me help you.

Let me do it kind of person.

And I have found out that I get in my own way and other people's way that I'm trying

to help more often than being helpful.

You know what I'm not going to, I.

No, that's wrong.

I am helpful more often, but there are times that it doesn't work.

And in those times, it really would be best for me to let things play out.

I think that's really good advice.

So, and I, I often find that to just, just get out of the way.

I'm going to write my, I have to remind myself of that.

Yeah,

I'm going to go back to your childhood memory.

All I can really think about Because, you know, we were talking before about

what made you become an architect and when I'm, instead of just letting

myself relax and thinking about some fun childhood memory, I'm remembering

making, you know, uh, in, in Galveston, making a fort out of driftwood.

That was kind of more sculptural than it was structural because we, there were

pieces, there weren't enough pieces.

But I remember a lot of the, you know, parents were like, maybe you

should just build my house for you.

So maybe I unblocked myself on that one and recalibrated my

brain to come up with something.

Save that one.

No, don't save it because I'll forget it.

But, you know, my, my, I will just say this, um, My childhood was very much

spent looking forward to being an adult.

I, I kept on thinking about all the ways that as an adult, I would

have my own house and my own, you know, control of my own life.

And a lot of my childhood was spent in, you know, doing well in school and

doing things so that I could get on with, you know, I wanted to be able to

redecorate a school library on my own, not because I was sneaking my way into it.

Uh, great stories, David.

Thank you.

Um, you're a joy to talk with.

So, if folks want to get in touch with you or something,

what's their best way to do that?

Well, I have a website, davidapplebomb.

com, pretty much just my name.

You can email me, david, at DavidApplebaum.

com.

It's got pretty much all of the information.

I'm on Instagram.

I'm on Facebook is DavidApplebaumArchitect and I'm on Instagram, but my Instagram

is DavidApplebaum underscore architect.

And there's a chat waiting for me.

So can't

wait to see what that is.

Cool.

Well, we will get those things in the show notes as well.

So I think we, well, you were an overachiever, David.

I think we all worked in our challenge words.

Am I correct on that?

Well, I know I did.

Yeah.

Serendipitous.

And you did it several times as well.

Thank you.

I was able to get calibrate in.

A couple of times.

And I even used my own once or twice.

You use block.

I had block and I got it in once, but not as many times as David.

So, yes,

but no, but yours, yours was, was very smooth.

Thank you.

Actually, I'm discovering the simpler words are a little harder to work in.

They are, they are mostly

partially because you kind of forget that they

exist since they're so simple.

Yeah.

Like the big words, like who, how am I going to use serendipitous?

How am I going to use calibrate?

Calibrate was a tough one, though.

Serendipitous was easy, because if you're lucky Serendipity comes into your life a

lot.

Good point.

Love it.

David, thank you so much.

It's been a pleasure.

We will do it again.

Thanks for

letting that last thing that I said made

me really happy to be alive.

So cool.

That was, thanks for allowing me to have

that good stuff.

And thank you to our audience for tuning into this very special episode

of construction disruption with David Applebaum architect to the stars.

Please watch for future episodes of our podcast.

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Till the next time we're together, keep on disrupting, keep on challenging.

I'm looking for better ways of doing things.

Don't forget to have a positive impact.

On everyone you encounter so god bless and take care and I will see you on the

next episode of construction disruption

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