Well, we are so excited to have you here, and

I'll tell you what, this is a really fascinating background.

Anything you want to know, just lead me around by

the nose.

My understanding is you started your career in

the military.

Yeah, the Vietnam War. That's why I was in the

military. It was three years, two months and nine days. But I

wasn't counting. I was a ship driver, and it was great. I

never had more responsibility for the end of my, rest of my

life. I don't think when he was a 22 year old kid and learned

how to drive ships go out in South China Sea. That's before

there was any, you know, GPS, or anything like that. You had to

go out and shoot the stars to find out where the hell you are.

And it was sort of fun. I hated it every minute, but it wouldn't

be somewhere else, but it certainly was a great

experience. I had nothing better to do at the time. I couldn't

get into grad school. I thought, well, yeah, well, maybe I'll go

to law school. So I took the LSAT, so I got like two above

plant life, yeah, and if you got drafted, then it's the army you

get. And I'm not a camper, so living in the jungle, this

camping distance sound appealing to me. So the Navy sounded

pretty good. Man, that's clean sheets every night. So I did

that, and then I was a diplomatic courier in Northern

Europe, briefcase handcuffed to me, him, and I finally got out

of there, went and got an MBA because of the GI Bill. And then

I started businesses that were failing. And that's what you

have to do to do anything. You just have to fail. Fail, fail.

You practice failing. You don't learn how to succeed. You learn

how to fail. Learning how to succeed is a waste of time. When

you succeed, it's easy. I mean, there's nothing to learn

anymore, so you really have to learn how to fail. It's like

learning to walk. When a kid learns to walk, take a step and

fall 100 times before they learn to walk. So when we do things as

a grown up, that's new. It's the same thing.

So let me ask you this. Walk me through this

passion that you've had for the last 40 years to help folks

access government funding for the things that they need, or

they think they need. Talk to me about where that passion came

from, what this looks like for you, etc.

Well, it started trying to feed myself. You know,

that's what life is. You have to take care of yourself and get a

job and all that kind of stuff. I was starting businesses. I

mean, in the 70s, I had a software company that failed,

and I spent the only personal world, and it's trying stuff.

And then I became a consultant for big companies like market

research consultant. And I'd get information for them to buy and

sell companies and markets for this and that and the other

thing. And I was stationed in Washington, so back then, before

the internet, you went to libraries, remember them to get

information and helping rich people. Rich people will pay

anything if they think they're going to make money at it. And

so I would go around and Procter gamma was a client of mine, and

they wanted to start a chain of pasta stores. So that's probably

somebody on the board of directors. Hey, why don't we get

in the pasta business? So I go out and look at the market and

competitors and stuff like that, and I go to libraries around

Washington, DC, because we have so many libraries because every

agency has their own library for for agriculture, for commerce or

for transportation. So you have the world's largest collection

of literature on that topic. And I'd go there and try to research

the data and the information about what the market is, and

talking to librarians, and I remember, I was working on the

pasta. And they said, Oh, the librarian said, you want to know

about pasta? Hey, go up to the fourth floor in 407, or

whatever, and talk to Charlie. He's our pasta expert. That just

shocked me, and so went over, talked to Charlie. And Charlie's

been studying pasta for last 25 years. He got a master's in it.

He's got a PhD in it, and that's all he does is create Studies

and Information and that nobody knows about. His wife was sick

of hearing about it. Yeah, when I walk in the door with a

genuine interest in it, I mean, he just lights up and I could

never get out. He would give me studies about all this stuff and

what happens, and how the prices and everything, and who's making

what? And so I put it all in a package for my client. And what

shocked me, though, is that, God, I had no idea. I mean, I

grew up in Wilkes Barre, Pennsylvania, coal mining town,

and my grandparents were came and worked in the mines from

Czechoslovakia, and I'm a coal miner's grandson. And. I Why

does everybody know about this? Yeah. And I said, God, nobody

works for I, I thought the government was a post office and

the IRS, you know, and to see all the wealth that's there and

all. And I was making millionaires into billionaires.

They'd get money and help and all this kind of stuff. Why? Why

isn't everybody that? So I said, Oh, I got to do this. Rich

people boring to work for. All they care about is money, you

know, their hearts not in much except their pocket. And so I

wanted to help the average person. How do I do that? And I

can't charge, like I charge rich people to do this information.

So it had to be books back then. So someone who flunked English

all his life, you know, to write a book was like being on Mars

and but I did get a contract. There was an agent that found

me, and so he got me a contract to that. So what I did when the

government printing office found a book that has a description of

all the government programs, money program, took that book,

cut and pasted it and became a New York Times best seller, all

I did is change the headlines the government doesn't explain

things as well. One of my favorite stories is that there's

a program. We still have it too, but it's called the urban

homesteading act. And see what I would do is read on it. Well,

what the hell is this about money and hard? And I read it

and the details, it really says, yeah, they get homes that people

couldn't pay their mortgages. So the government, you know,

guarantees all mortgages. So when your bank doesn't get your

mortgage, government gives the bank money, and the government

stuck with the house, you know, that's going downhill, and it

gets dilapidated and all that kind of stuff. So what they do

is, okay, they give them away for $1 so they house this for $1

and they give you a grant for like, $30,000 to fix it up. So

what I will do, I'll read that, I'll say, Hey, that's not urban

home study. AG, that's houses for $1 you know, to make it user

friendly, from the government, became a New York Times best

seller. A lot of publicity and ego satisfying stuff happened.

So I did a bunch of them. And then years and then I did

infomercials that were very popular, because to me, the way

to sell books is, if you don't have marketing money and

advertising money, you get free advertising. And the way you get

free advertising is you become a guest and you act like an idiot,

because television loves idiots. So I was a regular on talk

shows, because that's how I sold books. Famous talk shows would

use me as like the backup guy, like Larry King. I would. I must

have done him 1520 times, I don't even know, but he had a TV

show that would be an hour long. There's usually some big, high

powered, famous person on the first half hour, then what do

you do? He said, Come on, you'll be on the second half hour, but

let's go. If the guy said he'll stay for another half hour, he's

a big name, so they don't push him in the front. They get him

at the end of the half hour. Can you stay for another half hour?

I'm in the green room as the guy says, No. They bring me up. The

guy says, Yes, I go home and I know they owe me and they'll use

me again. Or I also was used a lot for people who cancel at the

moment last minute. Because, man, you're going to give me a

national 1020, 30 minutes of national TV, I'd have to pay

hundreds of 1000s of dollars of that if I bought an ad, and

being a guest to me is more authentic than an ad. So

Letterman would use me when somebody canceled. What was fun

for me? Who am I subbing for? Like I said once, for

Christopher walk at the last minute. I mean, they found me in

Chicago somewhere like noon. They got me on the plane, and I

think he taped about six o'clock in the early evening, and I was

there to go on, you know, with Christopher Walken, but that's

what sold books, man, you give me national air time, and I

learned quickly that media doesn't care what you say. I

used to worry about because insecure intellectually, and

they say, oh, let's go look at this wrong. Nobody reads the

book. They're just entertaining people. And I like entertaining

people and making people smile. So I was the go to person for

that. And then I did infomercials because I say, Oh,

I can't grow this. Because how many times can you do Larry King

in a year? You know? Then I found out that that you could

also get commercials for free. You had to produce them, but

once you had it to buy time was the expensive part. You know, I

go to TV stations, I say, Okay, I know I can't afford your time,

and I don't know if it's worth it. If I knew it was worth it,

then I would. But so here's the deal. If you don't sell that

time, nobody buys that time. I mean, they have to have

something there, so you put let's go, and I'll give you half

the money. I knew the information was important. I

knew I wanted to try to get it to people. But how do people

want it? You know, nobody, they got Google. What are they need

me for all that kind of stuff. Bookstores were going down, and

so nobody was getting the help there. But until a few years

ago, then it's community. We have a community of people. Now

people are helping people I don't even help. People anymore.

It's the people who find programs. They take advantage of

it, and they help other people do it. So it's a community based

thing, and that's even better than me, am I? You know, I've

been studying this for 50 years. It's hard for me to relate to

somebody who just found out about grants, yeah, but the

members are though, are all those people, and so they're

like volunteers helping. It's also giving them the joy of

giving. I mean, this is what happened business, because it

feels so good to give. It's very selfish to me. So it's having

the joy of giving and helping somebody else. So that's what's

happening now. And we also give our profits back to members. We

have half this country that 10 of four to $500 bill wages in

our country. How the wages are distributed? Okay, back in 1979

which is a turning point in economics for us, 70% of all the

wages went to 90% of the people. So the bottom 90% of the income

scale were getting 70% of the wages. The top 10% was getting

about 30% of the wages. Fast forward, that bottom 90% now

only gets about 55% and the top 5% is now getting up to 45% so

the share of the pie for 90% of us is shrinking every year, and

it's not like we haven't we're not growing GDP growth in that

time. It's going like crazy. So we're growing economically as a

country. But who's getting it? There's another astounding fact

to me when I found this is poverty rates in developed

countries, so only developed countries, and this is, is the

percentage of people in that country that are poor. We're

number one in creating poor people. We have more percentage

of our population that are poor than any other developed

country. So it's like 17, 18% I mean, the average from all the

developed countries is about 10% or so, and some are down to 7%

so we create more poor people than any other developed

country. Now this is what we are number one in, and that's making

millionaires. We're number one in making millionaires. 24

million millionaires. The second is China, and they got 6

million. So we're number one in millionaires, and number one in

creating poor people. So that that's what gets me up every day

earlier and earlier.

You have an amazing way of downplaying your

humility.

We're all struggling so hard. You know it,

I know it. I mean, I've just been here longer, god, 81 I

never thought I could even live that long.

So let me ask a practical question, if I may. I

think that there is such a natural apprehension to go to

the government for help, right? It's you're either all in or you

have this apprehension, how do you address that? How do you get

people over that, and where do they start?

Yeah, well, that's two points. I mean, it

won't start as easy, uh, getting over that. Other thing, I've

been wrestling that 24/7, for 50 years, but yes, now to me, all

our incentives in this country are against it. Like, if people

want information, they go to the wrong source, because if they

don't have money, because they go to Google, and Google is the

last place to go for anything if you don't have money, because

everything, there are people that want to get money. This is

capitalism, but if you don't have money, then you can't go

there. But people don't know what else to do, so they get

scammed, they lose money, and they just get worse off. And

that's because they don't know where this other stuff is. Now

the other stuff, which I call the community society, you know,

we have the capitalist society of us, and then we have the

community Society of us. Now, the community society is helps

other people for nothing. They give you money for nothing, and

but that represents, you know, a third of everything in our

economy is community, society. Two thirds is capitalism, but

1/3 is community, helping each other like your neighbor, okay,

neighbors on fire, you charge them to help put out the fire.

No, you're part of the community. You're going to help

them for free, right? So that's why we have these organizations

to do that for people and to help them and to grow so they

could contribute to the capitalist society more. But if

you're out of the game, you have to get the skills or whatever

you need to get into that game, and that's what the community

society is. But people aren't trained to do that. They're

trained to go to Google and spend my so how do we do that?

Okay, I got a couple places to start, but you have to believe

it's there, you know, because you can't just say, Oh, I'm

gonna try. I'm gonna call one or two people and see what happens.

And that's probably wrong. It's like getting a job. You're gonna

knock on one or two doors and nothing's gonna happen. And they

got hiring today. So. You go home, yeah, there nobody's

hiring, and you can't do that. Go to find help.org. Put in your

zip code on the left hand corner, up on top, you have

community organizations that help you with money, help

housing. They're all important things, right? Labor, work,

health care, everything. These are non profit organizations,

every one of them will never ask you for money. They just give

you money. They give you services. They give you now, the

next hurdle is now they're not all for you, so you have to

start calling and asking for help. See, getting help is a

people business. It's not an internet business. You have to

find the people in your community that get paid to help

people like you. They know what's out there. So you have to

learn where these people are and use them. So starting a

business, let's say you want to start a business. Okay, put in

sba.gov and then slash local dash assistance, sba.gov/low

sba.gov/local-assistance, and there's a place to put in your

zip code. These are all nonprofit organizations that get

paid to help anybody, anybody, start a business, start a

nonprofit, work on your invention, be a freelancer, be a

real estate investor. Any way to make money. They help you for

free. Help you find money. Help you find legal help for free.

Everything now they're all not perfect, yeah, and that's why

you call them. To me, call two or three of them, four of them,

or whatever, but everyone will never charge you money. Here's a

couple other ones. Another website is called apex. Apex and

accelerate tours with an S and then.us so that's a place again,

there in every city that if you're in business, small, big,

whatever, the biggest market for anything is the government. They

buy anything, and the problem is, learn the bureaucracy, and

they even have grants that help you figure out how to get those

contracts. Now there's another good one for businesses. It's

called Career one stop.org Okay. Now what they do is train your

employees for free. They pay for that because businesses don't

like paying for training, so the government does. So if you hire

people without the skills they need, they'll pay the salary up

to 80, 90% of the salary while they learn, or they just give

you, I mean, you get hundreds and hundreds of 1000s of dollars

to train all your call center people or your marketing people,

right? It's phenomenal. And that's training money and as an

individual, too. Now in our country, you could without a

college degree, you could get paid $40,000 a year to train for

$100,000 a year job not going to college and paying them $40,000

a year, the government will pay you $40,000 a year.

That's awesome. So with a new administration

coming in, is that going to impact how many of these

programs might be available in the future?

They all say this. So every president says

this, but it's important in a way. In the short term, you

won't notice anything the system so baked in doesn't matter. And

everybody says this to get elected, and especially the

current guy, he just entertaining himself. The more

outrageous things he could say, the more people will pay

attention to him. That's how I got a lot of TV time too. It's

being outrageous, but it is significant because they're able

to change it a few degree. And so by chipping at the edges and

changing a few degree, that means 1020, years from now,

we're in a different place. So they do have a long term impact

by moving things a little bit, and that's about all they could

do, especially now in the beginning, if it ever happens,

it'll take years to happen, and it'll just be around the edges,

and it'll be new opportunities. I mean, these people now, they

believe in capitalism, so I mean, why is Elon Musk following

along around this guy? Because nowhere else Elon could get a

billion dollars except from the federal government. He's looking

for his next billion off the federal government. That's what

it's all about. So get your first million off. They've heard

government. And the federal government is not the

government. Most of the government, for us is what's

locally, and then what happens is like right now, there are

nonprofit organizations that set up grants. We have this

community society that fills in the blanks a lot of times. To

me, it's the lower income people that are struggling, because

there's so much there that can really change their life if they

stick at it, and look for the hell a third of our country,

their work is to help you improve your life, and they have

money and help to do that, you have to find the right one.

Like I said, you have truly spent your life

helping others. And don't argue with me.

It's hard. I don't think myself are

professional or anything. I'm trying to get through life like

all of us are, but I feel we all have that obligation. And the

older I get now, boy, that is so important to me. Now it's just

giving, you know, it to me. How much can I give before I die?

And that's a very selfish thing. That's not me trying to help

anybody but me.

Yeah, sure.

What I've been living with for a long time now is

realizing my heart's smarter than my brain. We don't listen

to our heart enough when we listen to our grain, because

we're afraid we don't know what we're doing in life. So we take

expert opinion, like people said, I couldn't wear question

mark suits, and I just something my heart, I had to do that I

did, and I got thrown off of Home Shopping. I lost millions

of dollars, but I wanted to do it or something my heart was

telling me. But no, the real stuff in life is making those

real hard decisions, because it comes from the heart, and you

have to listen to that heart.

Yeah. Very wise counsel. Very wise counsel. It

has truly been an honor to spend this time with you. Thank you

for sharing your mission and life's work with us.

Oh well, you're so kind, that touches my heart.

Thank you.