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Tell me, is this how your
podcast episodes end?

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Let's start by saying, "You
know where to get hold of me,"

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or, "wherever you find all your
podcasts," is not a call to action.

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That's like a '90s style London
phone box with lots of postcards

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00:00:25,691 --> 00:00:27,704
in it. So let's be real on this.

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Over the last few episodes, you've
managed to get a winning sentence,

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four episodes that answer that winning
sentence, and a method for getting them

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in front of the right people. The
problem is people put all the energy

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into the beginning of the episode and
none at all into the call to action.

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The energy levels have dropped because
now you've done your interview, or

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you've given your solo narration.

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What's left?

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Oh, we've gotta end this.

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How do we end this?

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Ugh.

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Low vibe.

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Not gonna convert.

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So how do we fix that?

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That's what this episode's all about.

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Welcome to B2B Podcasting Insights.

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I'm Neal Veglio, the founder of
Podknows Podcasting, a full-service

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podcast marketing agency, helping
people like you to get better

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results from their branded podcasts.

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So let's talk about why most
branded podcasts fail to win over

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their ideal listeners as clients.

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There's three main points
here that I want to make.

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Let's go through them all.

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Number one, the availability announcement.

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You know where I am.

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Wherever you get your podcasts,
get in touch, drop me an email.

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That isn't a request.

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That's not giving someone an instruction.

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That is literally
announcing that you exist.

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They know you exist.

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They have listened or
watched your content.

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What they want to know now
is, what have they got to do?

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You've given them a load of insight.

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How do they convert that?

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Are you going to help them to do that?

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Do they need to go and download something
else that helps them to take action

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on the content that you've given them?

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You need to be very
specific about these things.

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Is the only way that they can carry
out the homework that you've given

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them via a downloadable resource?

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Tell them that.

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Is the only way that they can take action
through a one-to-one call with you?

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And does that come at cost?

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Well, then you need to tell them that.

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It's no good leaving them guessing
because a confused buyer never buys.

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It's a marketing trope, but it's true.

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The thing is, if you're giving people
homework, you need to be very specific

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about what that homework is because most
people automatically will not want to

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do any homework for a complete stranger.

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Number two is the size mismatch.

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What I mean by that is if you're
delivering 20 minutes of content, as

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in giving them 20 minutes of a preview
of your insight and what working with

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you might look like, if you're then
asking them to book a 30-minute call—

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There's a lack of alignment here.

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That's a massive ask given
what you've already delivered.

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It's like just sticking out a LinkedIn
post proposing marriage to whoever is

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the first person to comment and then
wondering why you get no engagement.

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Number three is the favour to you
disguised as a call to action for them.

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Follow the show, leave a review, share
the episode with somebody you know

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that will also enjoy this content.

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Don't frame that as helping them.

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It is totally about
serving you as the podcast.

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Now, unashamedly, I have been
prioritising the share this episode

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with somebody you know that will find
this useful because honestly, I know

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that this whole branded podcast thing
is a long game, and I am doing the hard

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yards now to reap the benefits later.

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My call to actions are obviously gonna
develop, but first I've got to grow the

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show and get more of my ideal clients
listening to these episodes, hence why

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I have focused on encouraging people to
share this content with their peers that

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they know will also benefit from it.

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But that's for me, and I
kind of know what I'm doing.

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For you, if you've got 50, 60 episodes
out there already that have given all the

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value up front, you probably don't want to
be wasting your time now asking them for

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vanity metrics like ratings and reviews
and follows in podcast apps, asking people

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to share your episodes with other people.

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You've built your audience now
over that amount of time, so now

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is the time to give them something.

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Give them something they can work
with, unless like me, you've got the

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resource of a full-time podcast producer
and can focus your efforts on growing

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your show, growing your real estate.

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That's valid if your podcast is
purely a marketing asset, but I don't

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think it is because you wouldn't be
listening to this podcast or watching

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this podcast if that's all it was.

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Now, don't get me wrong, there's nothing
wrong with dropping the occasional hint

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to leave a review of your podcast or
to share it with a friend or a peer.

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Just don't make it the sole focus
of your episode call to actions.

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So let's talk about what a
call to action at the end of

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a podcast episode actually is.

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In a nutshell, it's the next possible
smallest step for someone to take

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having consumed your content and
found what you've said to be valuable.

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Note that part, found what
you've said to be valuable.

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And here's a couple of ways that
you can test that to see if you're

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actually landing where you need to.

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Apply the 90-second test
to your call to action.

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Could they easily carry out that call
to action within 90 seconds while

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they're doing something else like
walking a dog or running on a treadmill?

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If it requires them to sit quietly,
if it requires them to sit with full

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attention at their laptop and maybe
with a pen, it's not a call to action.

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That's setting an appointment.

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The second part is doing
the better off test.

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Does carrying out your call to
action improve their problem

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even if they never buy from you?

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If it doesn't, then it's
not a call to action.

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It's a lead gen play with
slightly nicer manners. And

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people can tell the difference.

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Let's make that point again.

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Anything that means that it only
works in your favour is not a call

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to action that works for them.

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Anything that pays off for them without
needing to ever buy from you, that is a

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proper, valuable call to action and is
more likely to get them to take the next

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step with you, which most likely means
they will be willing to part with money.

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Now, a lot of business experts will talk
about the ladder of loyalty, and that

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definitely applies in podcasting as well.

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Different episodes earn different
asks because the listener is in a

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different place at the time that
they're listening to each of them.

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Let's talk about the different
rungs of that ladder, okay?

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So starting with episode
one, naming their problem.

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The call to action in that episode
is more of a thought than an action.

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It's go and ask a colleague why they
are so petrified of that spreadsheet.

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Go and ask your colleague
if they also understand this

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thing about buying triggers.

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It doesn't take any
commitment from them to you.

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It means that they get to go and have
their own internal conversations and

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figure out the problem without your help.

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Zero commitment, and it also
makes the problem real for them.

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Episode two was killing the cheap fix.

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So this is where you are
offering them a freebie download.

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Yeah, they're giving you their email
address, but you're not asking them

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to part with any money at this stage.

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So they get to use the checklist,
the template, whatever it is that

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you're offering them for free
with no commitment, and there's

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no conversation with you required.

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Episode three is the objection
that kills the deals.

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So it's a low stakes answer.

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Get in touch with me and let me
know which part of this episode's

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content really struck with you, and
tell me which part you're stuck on.

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Here's my email address.

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It's an email, not a meeting.

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And episode four is
making it safe to move.

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Because you haven't asked for this in the
previous three episodes, that's precisely

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what makes it okay in this episode.

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You can ask for the conversation.

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If you're still struggling with all
the stuff we've discussed in this

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podcast, book a meeting with me and
I can help you get to the next level.

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The truth is, the reason that your call
to action may not be working is not

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necessarily because the offer's not good.

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It's more likely that you're
asking for a rung four action on

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the end of a rung one episode.

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So here's how we get into the real
mechanics of how we pull this off.

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So, the rule is one ask per
episode and make it relevant

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to their journey at that time.

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Sending them to three different
places in one episode is probably

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not gonna work unless you know
how to do messaging properly.

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Most people don't, which is why I always
say to people, stick with one action

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per episode, to start with at least.

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Then put it where the agreement's
made, not necessarily where

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you wind down and lose energy.

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The strongest moment to put it is
immediately after you know that the

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listener has gone, "Oh, do you know
what? Yeah, I totally get that.

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Fully agree." And that's usually
two-thirds in, not on your outro.

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In fact, most people won't even
listen to the end of an episode long

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enough to get to the outro anyway.

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They get what they need
and they go, they bounce.

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They're finding another episode that
reinforces all the points they've

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just learned in your episode.

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And if that person has actually
stuck their call to action in the

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right place and at the right time,
they're more likely to win the

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conversation that you could have had.

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This bit is absolutely crucial.

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Say it twice and spell it.

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Now, in my other podcast, Podmastery
Podcasting Insights, I explored the fact

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that my own brand, Podknows Podcasting,
has someone who has a very similar

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sounding brand ranking in Google.

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That's why now on every episode,
I spell it out, Podknows,

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that's P-O-D-K-N-O-W-S.co.uk.

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You've probably picked up on that.

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This is why.

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People don't know it off by heart.

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They might be listening in a car.

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They might be listening on a treadmill.

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They might be, as one of our
listeners we know is often doing,

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sitting in an observation deck at
a swimming baths watching their

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kiddo do laps of front crawl.

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They might not be able to clearly
pick out what the web address that

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you want to send them to is if
they're in that kind of environment.

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And above all else, rehearse it.

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Rehearse your call to action.

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It's the one part of your episode
that you absolutely have to get

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right, otherwise it renders the
other 98% of it completely redundant.

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So to recap, when you're doing
your episode call to actions,

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figure out which rung of the
ladder the podcast episode sits on.

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Is it naming the problem?

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Is it giving them the resource?

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Is it getting them to take the next step
with you because you've already given them

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so much insight that you know most people
will not be able to action on their own?

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Pick which call to action it is and
go with that one and that one alone.

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And you know what?

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I'm gonna do the email ask.

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If this episode's content resonated
with you but you're still stuck,

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drop me an email and let me know why,
neal@podknows.co.uk, neal@podknows.co.uk

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All right, it's the part of the show
where we take, uh, voicemails, videos

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sometimes, emails from founders that
are listening to this show, sometimes

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anonymously, but nine times out of 10
they'll give us the name and location,

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uh, just as, uh, Tom in Norwich has done.

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Tom says,

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"
I listen back to my episodes
and can tell I'm rambling.

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How can I tighten it up?"

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Thing is, Tom, rambling
is not a speaking problem.

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Rambling is a knowing where you're
going with your point problem.

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Most people ramble because they've
meandered from where they were

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intending to go, and then they lose
their place, and then they're like,

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"Okay, what was I talking about again?"

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So my tip for this is start with a script.

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There's no harm in reading from a script.

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Yeah, you sound a little bit less
human when you're starting out, but

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the point is, it's better for you to
get your points across in a clear and

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consistent way than to feel like you're
rambling, lose the point, and then

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lose your listeners in the process.

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So write down your last sentence
first, you know where you're aiming

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for then, and then it's just a
case of getting to that point.

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The other thing I'd say
is, do you know what?

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You're only rambling to you in
your own head, because you know

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you're capable of much more.

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But total strangers are not gonna
know what you're capable of.

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So to a total stranger,
you may not be rambling.

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My advice to you is to get somebody
who may well be a stakeholder but

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doesn't have skin in the game.

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So that might be, I don't know, if
you're a part of a company that has a

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receptionist, ask your receptionist,
do they think that you're rambling?

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If they were interested in what it is
that you're talking about, would your…

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would the way that you're talking
about it put them off listening?

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Send it to clients for feedback.

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The clients are the people
that you want to listen to

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this stuff in the first place.

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At least, you should want
your clients listening to it.

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Ask them whether or not the
content is hooking them and

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engaging them sufficiently.

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And would they, as your
existing clients, recommend your

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content to a would-be customer?

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Ask them not to be polite.

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Ask them to be realistic and truthful.

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Explain to them that politeness
does not help you at this stage.

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They must be blunt and
truthful about your content.

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That's the only way that you're
going to improve it for them.

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If you want to ask me your founder
question, you can do so really easily.

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Couple of ways to do it.

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Email me, neal@podknows.co.uk.

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That's N-E-A-L @podknows.co.uk,
or go to podknows.co.uk/voicemail

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Time for this week's quick tip, and
this one is something that could really

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not only improve the quality of your
episodes, but also if you're working

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with a podcast editor, absolutely make
their lives easier and possibly even

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speed up how quickly they can get the
content back to you. When you fluff

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a line, don't start the take again.

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Pause for three seconds, and then repeat
the whole sentence that led to it.

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Almost everybody stops, they sigh, they
splutter, mutter something, and then

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they go right the way back to the top
of the whole section that they'd started

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recording when they made a mistake.

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The problem with that is you now get
three or four versions of the same

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paragraph recorded, and you've got
to figure out which one's the best.

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And if you're using an editor, that's
a lot of time for them to check

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which one is the best, and sometimes
they won't pick the best one.

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Just saying.

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So instead, leave a clear three-second
silence, and then restart the

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same sentence that you were
reading when you made the cock-up.

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And this is especially good if you're
editing yourself, because that silence

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will show up as a gap clip, meaning
you can very quickly see all the places

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where you've stopped and started and
quickly get to them and tidy that up.

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Honestly, it turns about an hour of
looking for the good takes into about 10

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minutes of clicking, and not only does
it make the whole process of editing

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much easier, but it makes you sound so
much better, and it avoids that Riverside

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edit problem that most podcasts have.

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Couldn't resist it.

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Sorry, Riverside.

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Not really.

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Okay, so I hope you enjoyed this episode.

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Just a reminder on the call to
action for this episode and an extra

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little task for you, if you like.

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If there's something in this episode
that resonated with you but you haven't

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been able to figure out what the
missing piece is, drop me an email,

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Neal, that's N-E-A-L, @podknows.co.uk.

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And just go back to the last 90 seconds
of the most recent episode you published.

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Grab a pen and paper and note
down what you actually asked your

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ideal listeners to do in the words
that you asked them to do it.

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If you can't find it or it just happened
to be, "Get in touch," well, you've

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just discovered the whole point of this
episode, and you're welcome for the help.

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So there you go.

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That's how to get your listeners
to take the right action according

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to the content of your episode.

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In our next episode, we'll talk about how
you'll know any of it actually worked.

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Thanks so much for listening to this
episode of B2B Podcasting Insights.

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Looking forward to speaking
to you again next week.

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And in the meantime, good luck with your
continuing efforts with your B2B podcast.