Tell me, is this how your podcast episodes end?
Let's start by saying, "You know where to get hold of me,"
or, "wherever you find all your podcasts," is not a call to action.
That's like a '90s style London phone box with lots of postcards
in it. So let's be real on this.
Over the last few episodes, you've managed to get a winning sentence,
four episodes that answer that winning sentence, and a method for getting them
in front of the right people. The problem is people put all the energy
into the beginning of the episode and none at all into the call to action.
The energy levels have dropped because now you've done your interview, or
you've given your solo narration.
What's left?
Oh, we've gotta end this.
How do we end this?
Ugh.
Low vibe.
Not gonna convert.
So how do we fix that?
That's what this episode's all about.
Welcome to B2B Podcasting Insights.
I'm Neal Veglio, the founder of Podknows Podcasting, a full-service
podcast marketing agency, helping people like you to get better
results from their branded podcasts.
So let's talk about why most branded podcasts fail to win over
their ideal listeners as clients.
There's three main points here that I want to make.
Let's go through them all.
Number one, the availability announcement.
You know where I am.
Wherever you get your podcasts, get in touch, drop me an email.
That isn't a request.
That's not giving someone an instruction.
That is literally announcing that you exist.
They know you exist.
They have listened or watched your content.
What they want to know now is, what have they got to do?
You've given them a load of insight.
How do they convert that?
Are you going to help them to do that?
Do they need to go and download something else that helps them to take action
on the content that you've given them?
You need to be very specific about these things.
Is the only way that they can carry out the homework that you've given
them via a downloadable resource?
Tell them that.
Is the only way that they can take action through a one-to-one call with you?
And does that come at cost?
Well, then you need to tell them that.
It's no good leaving them guessing because a confused buyer never buys.
It's a marketing trope, but it's true.
The thing is, if you're giving people homework, you need to be very specific
about what that homework is because most people automatically will not want to
do any homework for a complete stranger.
Number two is the size mismatch.
What I mean by that is if you're delivering 20 minutes of content, as
in giving them 20 minutes of a preview of your insight and what working with
you might look like, if you're then asking them to book a 30-minute call—
There's a lack of alignment here.
That's a massive ask given what you've already delivered.
It's like just sticking out a LinkedIn post proposing marriage to whoever is
the first person to comment and then wondering why you get no engagement.
Number three is the favour to you disguised as a call to action for them.
Follow the show, leave a review, share the episode with somebody you know
that will also enjoy this content.
Don't frame that as helping them.
It is totally about serving you as the podcast.
Now, unashamedly, I have been prioritising the share this episode
with somebody you know that will find this useful because honestly, I know
that this whole branded podcast thing is a long game, and I am doing the hard
yards now to reap the benefits later.
My call to actions are obviously gonna develop, but first I've got to grow the
show and get more of my ideal clients listening to these episodes, hence why
I have focused on encouraging people to share this content with their peers that
they know will also benefit from it.
But that's for me, and I kind of know what I'm doing.
For you, if you've got 50, 60 episodes out there already that have given all the
value up front, you probably don't want to be wasting your time now asking them for
vanity metrics like ratings and reviews and follows in podcast apps, asking people
to share your episodes with other people.
You've built your audience now over that amount of time, so now
is the time to give them something.
Give them something they can work with, unless like me, you've got the
resource of a full-time podcast producer and can focus your efforts on growing
your show, growing your real estate.
That's valid if your podcast is purely a marketing asset, but I don't
think it is because you wouldn't be listening to this podcast or watching
this podcast if that's all it was.
Now, don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with dropping the occasional hint
to leave a review of your podcast or to share it with a friend or a peer.
Just don't make it the sole focus of your episode call to actions.
So let's talk about what a call to action at the end of
a podcast episode actually is.
In a nutshell, it's the next possible smallest step for someone to take
having consumed your content and found what you've said to be valuable.
Note that part, found what you've said to be valuable.
And here's a couple of ways that you can test that to see if you're
actually landing where you need to.
Apply the 90-second test to your call to action.
Could they easily carry out that call to action within 90 seconds while
they're doing something else like walking a dog or running on a treadmill?
If it requires them to sit quietly, if it requires them to sit with full
attention at their laptop and maybe with a pen, it's not a call to action.
That's setting an appointment.
The second part is doing the better off test.
Does carrying out your call to action improve their problem
even if they never buy from you?
If it doesn't, then it's not a call to action.
It's a lead gen play with slightly nicer manners. And
people can tell the difference.
Let's make that point again.
Anything that means that it only works in your favour is not a call
to action that works for them.
Anything that pays off for them without needing to ever buy from you, that is a
proper, valuable call to action and is more likely to get them to take the next
step with you, which most likely means they will be willing to part with money.
Now, a lot of business experts will talk about the ladder of loyalty, and that
definitely applies in podcasting as well.
Different episodes earn different asks because the listener is in a
different place at the time that they're listening to each of them.
Let's talk about the different rungs of that ladder, okay?
So starting with episode one, naming their problem.
The call to action in that episode is more of a thought than an action.
It's go and ask a colleague why they are so petrified of that spreadsheet.
Go and ask your colleague if they also understand this
thing about buying triggers.
It doesn't take any commitment from them to you.
It means that they get to go and have their own internal conversations and
figure out the problem without your help.
Zero commitment, and it also makes the problem real for them.
Episode two was killing the cheap fix.
So this is where you are offering them a freebie download.
Yeah, they're giving you their email address, but you're not asking them
to part with any money at this stage.
So they get to use the checklist, the template, whatever it is that
you're offering them for free with no commitment, and there's
no conversation with you required.
Episode three is the objection that kills the deals.
So it's a low stakes answer.
Get in touch with me and let me know which part of this episode's
content really struck with you, and tell me which part you're stuck on.
Here's my email address.
It's an email, not a meeting.
And episode four is making it safe to move.
Because you haven't asked for this in the previous three episodes, that's precisely
what makes it okay in this episode.
You can ask for the conversation.
If you're still struggling with all the stuff we've discussed in this
podcast, book a meeting with me and I can help you get to the next level.
The truth is, the reason that your call to action may not be working is not
necessarily because the offer's not good.
It's more likely that you're asking for a rung four action on
the end of a rung one episode.
So here's how we get into the real mechanics of how we pull this off.
So, the rule is one ask per episode and make it relevant
to their journey at that time.
Sending them to three different places in one episode is probably
not gonna work unless you know how to do messaging properly.
Most people don't, which is why I always say to people, stick with one action
per episode, to start with at least.
Then put it where the agreement's made, not necessarily where
you wind down and lose energy.
The strongest moment to put it is immediately after you know that the
listener has gone, "Oh, do you know what? Yeah, I totally get that.
Fully agree." And that's usually two-thirds in, not on your outro.
In fact, most people won't even listen to the end of an episode long
enough to get to the outro anyway.
They get what they need and they go, they bounce.
They're finding another episode that reinforces all the points they've
just learned in your episode.
And if that person has actually stuck their call to action in the
right place and at the right time, they're more likely to win the
conversation that you could have had.
This bit is absolutely crucial.
Say it twice and spell it.
Now, in my other podcast, Podmastery Podcasting Insights, I explored the fact
that my own brand, Podknows Podcasting, has someone who has a very similar
sounding brand ranking in Google.
That's why now on every episode, I spell it out, Podknows,
that's P-O-D-K-N-O-W-S.co.uk.
You've probably picked up on that.
This is why.
People don't know it off by heart.
They might be listening in a car.
They might be listening on a treadmill.
They might be, as one of our listeners we know is often doing,
sitting in an observation deck at a swimming baths watching their
kiddo do laps of front crawl.
They might not be able to clearly pick out what the web address that
you want to send them to is if they're in that kind of environment.
And above all else, rehearse it.
Rehearse your call to action.
It's the one part of your episode that you absolutely have to get
right, otherwise it renders the other 98% of it completely redundant.
So to recap, when you're doing your episode call to actions,
figure out which rung of the ladder the podcast episode sits on.
Is it naming the problem?
Is it giving them the resource?
Is it getting them to take the next step with you because you've already given them
so much insight that you know most people will not be able to action on their own?
Pick which call to action it is and go with that one and that one alone.
And you know what?
I'm gonna do the email ask.
If this episode's content resonated with you but you're still stuck,
drop me an email and let me know why, neal@podknows.co.uk, neal@podknows.co.uk
All right, it's the part of the show where we take, uh, voicemails, videos
sometimes, emails from founders that are listening to this show, sometimes
anonymously, but nine times out of 10 they'll give us the name and location,
uh, just as, uh, Tom in Norwich has done.
Tom says,
" I listen back to my episodes and can tell I'm rambling.
How can I tighten it up?"
Thing is, Tom, rambling is not a speaking problem.
Rambling is a knowing where you're going with your point problem.
Most people ramble because they've meandered from where they were
intending to go, and then they lose their place, and then they're like,
"Okay, what was I talking about again?"
So my tip for this is start with a script.
There's no harm in reading from a script.
Yeah, you sound a little bit less human when you're starting out, but
the point is, it's better for you to get your points across in a clear and
consistent way than to feel like you're rambling, lose the point, and then
lose your listeners in the process.
So write down your last sentence first, you know where you're aiming
for then, and then it's just a case of getting to that point.
The other thing I'd say is, do you know what?
You're only rambling to you in your own head, because you know
you're capable of much more.
But total strangers are not gonna know what you're capable of.
So to a total stranger, you may not be rambling.
My advice to you is to get somebody who may well be a stakeholder but
doesn't have skin in the game.
So that might be, I don't know, if you're a part of a company that has a
receptionist, ask your receptionist, do they think that you're rambling?
If they were interested in what it is that you're talking about, would your…
would the way that you're talking about it put them off listening?
Send it to clients for feedback.
The clients are the people that you want to listen to
this stuff in the first place.
At least, you should want your clients listening to it.
Ask them whether or not the content is hooking them and
engaging them sufficiently.
And would they, as your existing clients, recommend your
content to a would-be customer?
Ask them not to be polite.
Ask them to be realistic and truthful.
Explain to them that politeness does not help you at this stage.
They must be blunt and truthful about your content.
That's the only way that you're going to improve it for them.
If you want to ask me your founder question, you can do so really easily.
Couple of ways to do it.
Email me, neal@podknows.co.uk.
That's N-E-A-L @podknows.co.uk, or go to podknows.co.uk/voicemail
Time for this week's quick tip, and this one is something that could really
not only improve the quality of your episodes, but also if you're working
with a podcast editor, absolutely make their lives easier and possibly even
speed up how quickly they can get the content back to you. When you fluff
a line, don't start the take again.
Pause for three seconds, and then repeat the whole sentence that led to it.
Almost everybody stops, they sigh, they splutter, mutter something, and then
they go right the way back to the top of the whole section that they'd started
recording when they made a mistake.
The problem with that is you now get three or four versions of the same
paragraph recorded, and you've got to figure out which one's the best.
And if you're using an editor, that's a lot of time for them to check
which one is the best, and sometimes they won't pick the best one.
Just saying.
So instead, leave a clear three-second silence, and then restart the
same sentence that you were reading when you made the cock-up.
And this is especially good if you're editing yourself, because that silence
will show up as a gap clip, meaning you can very quickly see all the places
where you've stopped and started and quickly get to them and tidy that up.
Honestly, it turns about an hour of looking for the good takes into about 10
minutes of clicking, and not only does it make the whole process of editing
much easier, but it makes you sound so much better, and it avoids that Riverside
edit problem that most podcasts have.
Couldn't resist it.
Sorry, Riverside.
Not really.
Okay, so I hope you enjoyed this episode.
Just a reminder on the call to action for this episode and an extra
little task for you, if you like.
If there's something in this episode that resonated with you but you haven't
been able to figure out what the missing piece is, drop me an email,
Neal, that's N-E-A-L, @podknows.co.uk.
And just go back to the last 90 seconds of the most recent episode you published.
Grab a pen and paper and note down what you actually asked your
ideal listeners to do in the words that you asked them to do it.
If you can't find it or it just happened to be, "Get in touch," well, you've
just discovered the whole point of this episode, and you're welcome for the help.
So there you go.
That's how to get your listeners to take the right action according
to the content of your episode.
In our next episode, we'll talk about how you'll know any of it actually worked.
Thanks so much for listening to this episode of B2B Podcasting Insights.
Looking forward to speaking to you again next week.
And in the meantime, good luck with your continuing efforts with your B2B podcast.