And so it's like,
why would you want to build a faith
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on something that's not true?
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You know, my faith is just as strong
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and I have no problem
facing the truth about the manuscripts.
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It's like I just see a brilliant God.
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You know, who, who, who...
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He knew his word was going to be
translated into hundreds of languages,
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and so it couldn't be dependent
on the wording in the Greek,
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the precise wording,
because then the whole world,
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only a little group of people
would actually have his word.
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You know.
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David Bercot welcome back
to the Anabaptist Perspectives podcast.
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Good to be back on Reagan.
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All right.
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So we have done a number of episodes
with you on various topics.
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And there's one that you did
a, I don’t know, a lecture or something.
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It's been quite a while ago.
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I think you might still be able
to find it on the, on your website.
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I'm not sure.
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00:00:55,930 --> 00:00:59,601
And we haven't touched on this one yet
just because it is fairly controversial,
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but we want to dive into it.
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So here, here we go.
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So there are some people who claim
we can't trust the Bible
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because ancient manuscripts
don't all say the same thing, you know,
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textual variants
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between the different manuscripts,
particularly, you know, New Testament say,
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so then some people will also say, well,
therefore we can't really know
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what the Bible originally said
or what those texts originally meant.
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You know, really common
one would be like Bart
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Ehrman or something who says, well,
therefore Christianity is false.
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And so he leaves Christianity.
He writes all these books about it.
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So let's let's jump into this one,
and this can get a little sticky.
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And I think we should maybe qualify this
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with we're not, you know, textual variant,
you know, experts.
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It's not like we, you know, study this,
you know, extensively.
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But there are some,
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some principles here that that
I think we should, we should tear into.
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So let's start with saying, well,
what exactly are manuscripts?
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What do biblical scholars
mean when they're saying these things?
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Let's let's lay some groundwork
as we dig into this.
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Okay.
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So I think we're talking
about New Testament manuscripts, here.
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So usually the, the term is used to mean
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a handwritten copy of the New Testament.
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In other words, before the invention
of the printing press,
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or maybe before Erasmus's,
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edition of the Greek text, which was after
the printing press was invented.
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So when Erasmus put together a Greek text,
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then it could be printed
on printing presses, and then people
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could use it to translate the Bible,
which is exactly what they did do.
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So before that,
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monks,
I think, were mainly the ones who did it,
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but before the monks,
it was other Christians.
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They would sit and hand copy
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The new Testament, word for word.
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And of course, what that does,
I don't know if you've ever
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looked at a, copy of a New Testament
Greek manuscript.
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It was all run together.
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They didn't separate their words,
and they didn't use punctuation.
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They didn't have sentences.
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It's all run together.
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So imagine sitting there and copying
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the whole New Testament and,
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not missing a letter anywhere in there.
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It would be.
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I'd say, probably humanly impossible.
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Now, God, if he had
chosen, could have miraculously prevented,
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changes from happening.
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But we know he didn't do that.
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There are over:
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Greek manuscripts in the New Testament,
which the New Testament
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was written entirely in Greek.
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So we've got 5000 manuscripts
now, those are not all complete.
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So some of them are just like,
say, the book of John or
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part of the Book of John
or something like that.
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I don't know how many we have
of the entire New Testament.
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It's in the thousands.
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I'm pretty certain of of that.
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So let's just say there's, you know, 5000
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when we, count the, incomplete ones.
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It's actually closer to 6000.
I know that much.
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So no, two read precisely alike.
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Out of all of that,
which, again, when we look at
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how what they were working with it,
that's no surprise.
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I mean, I don't
I don't know how you could copy
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all of that and never make a mistake
as a, as a as a human.
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And sometimes maybe someone
was reading it to you
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and you're writing it down, and words
often will have the
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same will sound similarly,
but it's two different words.
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00:04:33,481 --> 00:04:33,898
In English
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we call them homonyms where It sounds
the same, but it's spelled differently.
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It's two different words that.
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So yeah.
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So I'm sitting here and you're
reading it to me and I hear you say this.
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I might misunderstand you.
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Or it might be a case of a homonyms and I,
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I write down this word,
and you meant that word.
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So that's
how these variations would come in.
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So someone says, this author,
I have not read him that.
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Well, see, it shows the Bible can't be of
God or else it would all read the same.
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You wouldn't have these variations.
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Well, this is a remarkable thing
when you think of, like I say, 5000,
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you know, or close to 6000 manuscripts
or parts of manuscripts
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that with
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all of those little changes and little,
you know, goofs, typos, you might say,
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said they were
they weren't using a typewriter.
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The message is the same.
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I mean, there is no doctrine that is
changed by any of those variations.
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I mean, it is the same message
no matter which manuscript you use.
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So now you tell me if that's not of God.
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Yeah.
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How do you end up with that?
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That you you, he lets humans be humans.
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He allows them to make,
you know, little mistakes.
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And yet,
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yeah,
the mistakes are so few that in the end,
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you don't have several different gospels,
several different New Testament messages.
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It's, you know, so right now
I'm, I use the new King James.
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Okay.
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It's based on the Textus Receptus, you
know, for my New Testament, I often, for,
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different reasons will compare.
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And I'll use the ESV,
the English Standard version.
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You know, it is so rare
that there is any difference.
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I'm usually just looking for a difference
in translation of how they express it.
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But a difference in meaning,
that almost never exists.
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And yet they are from two different
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text families you know, one is from
the critical text, the ESV,
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and this is from the Textus Receptus,
you know, so
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as I said,
these variations are usually very small.
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And normally
because we have this large group,
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you can usually figure it out
and see where, oh, so he's copying.
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And he looked down.
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And when he went back to the one
he was using to copy from,
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he skipped a line down.
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He was, you know, the
his last word was say, the.
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And he looked back down.
He saw the and he skipped there.
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And by comparing it
with other manuscripts,
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you can see, oh,
he left that sentence out, you know.
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So most of these things we can, you know,
put it back together.
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Now, do we know word for word
how it was originally
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each of those, letters
in the New Testament?
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No, we we do not know for a certainty
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that we will talk
about the implications of that.
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And some Christians would say,
oh, we we do.
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I think just being intellectually
honest, we don't know.
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Now, the interesting thing
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is, as you know, my field of scholarship
is not New Testament manuscripts.
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It's the early Christians.
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And they were aware of this.
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Those variations, the variations
we have, the, the, the large ones,
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most of them are like I say,
or just the spelling of a word,
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spelling of somebody's name,
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a word like maybe it says Lord Jesus here.
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And then this manuscript just says,
Jesus is like,
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you know,
it doesn't change a single thing. But,
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00:07:59,270 --> 00:08:01,898
I mean, it would if this manuscript never
has the Lord Jesus.
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00:08:01,898 --> 00:08:05,067
But yeah, it does it just
in that particular sentence, you know.
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these variations, they were all there,
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00:08:08,821 --> 00:08:11,657
the major ones before the year 200.
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So interesting.
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00:08:13,242 --> 00:08:14,785
So pretty early on. Okay.
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Because I was going to say that
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that was definitely
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something I wanted to ask is like, well,
what did the early church think of this?
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Right. You know, so what did they say?
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Like, it's funny just how they think
differently than a modern day person
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00:08:25,922 --> 00:08:29,467
who was like,
Tertullian will say, such and such.
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And he’ll say, some, some manuscripts
say blah, blah, blah, you know,
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big deal.
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They didn't really big deal.
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The only one who really got into it
and made a science of it was Origen.
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He's usually considered the first,
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New Testament manuscript scholar,
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because he wanted
he wanted to see what was the original.
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He was hoping maybe he could figure out
what was the original wording,
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but all he could do was,
you know, make a list.
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Well, these ones read this way,
and then these ones read this way.
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00:09:03,125 --> 00:09:07,129
And he he talks a lot about, you know,
which one he thinks is correct
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00:09:07,129 --> 00:09:11,425
and why he's he's also considered
the first textual, critic,
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but in no way affected his faith.
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00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:16,764
It's like
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00:09:16,764 --> 00:09:18,599
often it's, you know, a location.
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00:09:18,599 --> 00:09:19,559
It says this town.
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Another one says this town
because it's a word.
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It's a letter. Different.
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00:09:23,813 --> 00:09:26,816
Usually it's just often
like a letter, difference.
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So big deal.
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What difference does it make?
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It doesn't change the message. So
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what?
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00:09:34,782 --> 00:09:36,784
You know, maybe I don't know
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if there was a time in my life
that knowing these variations stumbled me.
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00:09:40,955 --> 00:09:42,623
I think from childhood, I think
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00:09:42,623 --> 00:09:46,627
from when I was very little,
I knew that these manuscripts differed.
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00:09:46,627 --> 00:09:49,797
So I don't think it ever came
as a shock to me.
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But I have wondered, well,
why did God allow this?
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Like I say,
he didn't allow it to change any doctrine.
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But as I pondered it more
and this is human reasoning,
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00:10:03,185 --> 00:10:06,147
so I may be totally mis
guessing the thing, you know,
200
00:10:07,023 --> 00:10:11,235
but if he had preserved it
perfect, let's say,
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00:10:11,235 --> 00:10:15,156
you know, each of these Greek manuscripts
read exactly the same.
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00:10:15,156 --> 00:10:17,617
Or we actually had Paul's original.
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So, you know, it was preserved
somehow in a cave.
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And, and we knew for certain this was it,
you know, so we knew beyond a doubt.
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00:10:25,207 --> 00:10:29,795
This is how this,
book of the New Testament originally read.
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00:10:30,546 --> 00:10:31,088
Okay.
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00:10:31,088 --> 00:10:34,050
What that would create would mean
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00:10:34,050 --> 00:10:37,637
it's only God's
Word if you read it in Greek.
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00:10:39,722 --> 00:10:42,683
Because the minute you translate it,
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00:10:42,683 --> 00:10:43,976
you have to change something.
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00:10:43,976 --> 00:10:47,855
There are no two languages that you
that are word for word.
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00:10:47,980 --> 00:10:51,692
You know, this language has this word
and this language has the exact same word.
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00:10:52,318 --> 00:10:54,862
There are no two languages
where you can do that.
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00:10:54,862 --> 00:10:59,575
So anytime you translate,
you automatically have to make decisions.
215
00:10:59,575 --> 00:11:00,117
Choices.
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00:11:00,117 --> 00:11:03,496
What word should I use
to translate this Greek word, etc..
217
00:11:03,788 --> 00:11:07,792
So then you'd have a situation
that that is God's word,
218
00:11:08,334 --> 00:11:12,797
but the minute you translate it, it's
not God's word.
219
00:11:13,172 --> 00:11:14,048
Whoa. Okay.
220
00:11:14,048 --> 00:11:15,466
So that's, that's fascinating
221
00:11:15,466 --> 00:11:18,928
because that's one of the cornerstones
of something like say Islam.
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00:11:19,303 --> 00:11:23,432
And so if you pick up a copy of the Quran
and it's in English,
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00:11:23,432 --> 00:11:25,893
it won't say it's a translation,
it will call it a commentary
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00:11:25,893 --> 00:11:28,688
because they know,
oh, it's been translated. Right.
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00:11:28,688 --> 00:11:34,443
So therefore it's not the original because
in their doctrine it would be this is
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00:11:35,736 --> 00:11:36,946
I mean, exactly
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00:11:36,946 --> 00:11:40,408
what, you know, Allah handed down
and you cannot translate it.
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00:11:40,908 --> 00:11:43,411
I never thought that of that.
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00:11:43,411 --> 00:11:44,578
But that makes a lot of sense.
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00:11:44,578 --> 00:11:46,330
I can see what you're saying
because knowing
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human nature,
I can imagine people doing the same thing.
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00:11:49,542 --> 00:11:51,127
If you had an original.
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00:11:51,127 --> 00:11:52,044
Yeah. Okay.
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00:11:52,044 --> 00:11:53,713
And that happened with me with the Quran.
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I was, speaking at, it was a small group
of students at, Penn State.
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It was on, how we know God exists, and
anyway, several the people who attended
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00:12:04,348 --> 00:12:09,478
were, Muslim, because they were interested
in hearing, proofs for God's existence.
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The same as, you know, Christians are.
239
00:12:11,272 --> 00:12:15,985
So afterwards, oh, well,
before it started, I was looking around.
240
00:12:15,985 --> 00:12:18,320
They have a building there
that's like a, a religious
241
00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,699
building has got Buddhists and has got,
you know, you know, everything.
242
00:12:22,241 --> 00:12:24,827
And so I saw it there in the hall
there was a stack of Qurans,
243
00:12:24,827 --> 00:12:27,580
you know, in English. And,
you know, they were to hand out.
244
00:12:27,580 --> 00:12:32,334
So I helped myself to one and I had it
there, and it was just on a stack.
245
00:12:32,334 --> 00:12:34,044
I had a notebook and everything.
246
00:12:34,044 --> 00:12:37,757
So anyway, during the lunch break
or whatever, I'm talking to this guy
247
00:12:37,757 --> 00:12:39,675
and he says he's, he's, Muslim.
248
00:12:39,675 --> 00:12:42,762
And and suddenly we mentioned
the Quran and I looked down.
249
00:12:42,762 --> 00:12:45,723
And I know in Islam,
if you've got a Quran, it's
250
00:12:45,723 --> 00:12:49,769
got to be the highest book in the room,
you know, and here I have it down
251
00:12:49,769 --> 00:12:53,355
under, you know, my Bible
and then some notebooks and everything.
252
00:12:53,647 --> 00:12:57,026
And I immediately said, oh, I'm sorry
if that's offensive to you.
253
00:12:57,234 --> 00:12:58,569
Yeah. I didn't mean to be offensive.
254
00:12:59,904 --> 00:13:01,322
He said, that's no problem.
255
00:13:01,322 --> 00:13:02,072
That's not the Quran.
256
00:13:02,072 --> 00:13:06,994
That's just a English, you know,
translation and and yeah, it's like, yeah.
257
00:13:06,994 --> 00:13:08,829
So yeah, this isn't the Bible.
258
00:13:08,829 --> 00:13:11,874
If we had Paul's original in Greek.
259
00:13:11,874 --> 00:13:14,627
Well, this isn’t the Bible,
this is just a translation.
260
00:13:14,627 --> 00:13:15,628
But yeah.
261
00:13:15,628 --> 00:13:18,172
So you would have to
262
00:13:18,172 --> 00:13:19,298
but it gets more complicated.
263
00:13:19,298 --> 00:13:20,674
You'd have to know
264
00:13:20,674 --> 00:13:24,094
New Testament Greek, but
you'd have to know it as a native speaker.
265
00:13:24,094 --> 00:13:27,389
I mean, you can study it now,
but there's nobody today
266
00:13:27,723 --> 00:13:31,727
who speaks Koine Greek
the way somebody did in the first century.
267
00:13:31,727 --> 00:13:34,980
You know, there's
they study it as a second language.
268
00:13:35,314 --> 00:13:39,151
But there's a big difference
between being a native speaker and,
269
00:13:40,277 --> 00:13:43,447
somebody who's learning it,
particularly 2000 years later.
270
00:13:43,447 --> 00:13:48,118
So we would still not know exactly what
Paul meant, because the language
271
00:13:48,118 --> 00:13:49,787
has changed over the years.
272
00:13:49,787 --> 00:13:52,206
And we'd have to be have to be guessing.
273
00:13:52,206 --> 00:13:55,501
But it would mean everybody
to share the gospel.
274
00:13:55,501 --> 00:13:58,504
Yeah, they've got to learn Koine Greek.
275
00:13:58,712 --> 00:14:00,381
And see that's not what God wanted.
276
00:14:00,381 --> 00:14:05,678
So the Bible is a book that from I mean,
the earliest it got translated into Latin.
277
00:14:05,803 --> 00:14:07,054
We were talking about that
278
00:14:07,054 --> 00:14:10,850
in a earlier session,
how, the Latin translation of the Bible,
279
00:14:10,850 --> 00:14:14,979
one of the verses, they mistranslated
a, a couple of words there.
280
00:14:15,521 --> 00:14:18,566
And, you know, we can correct
it now, but it, it affected,
281
00:14:19,775 --> 00:14:22,236
some doctrine in that translation.
282
00:14:22,236 --> 00:14:24,071
So translations are imperfect.
283
00:14:24,071 --> 00:14:26,615
But he got translated right away.
They never thought that.
284
00:14:26,615 --> 00:14:26,949
Okay.
285
00:14:26,949 --> 00:14:28,659
The Greek is this magical language.
286
00:14:28,659 --> 00:14:31,787
No, it got translated into Aramaic
right away.
287
00:14:31,912 --> 00:14:36,250
It wasn't too long before it was in Coptic
and then Armenian and and so on.
288
00:14:36,250 --> 00:14:38,627
I mean,
that was a mindset from the beginning.
289
00:14:38,627 --> 00:14:40,087
This gets translated.
290
00:14:40,087 --> 00:14:42,423
We don't worship the words on the page.
291
00:14:42,423 --> 00:14:44,133
We worship the message.
292
00:14:44,133 --> 00:14:46,635
And so God's Word is his message.
293
00:14:46,635 --> 00:14:49,930
It's not the exact, precise words.
294
00:14:50,222 --> 00:14:51,181
And so that's by choice.
295
00:14:51,181 --> 00:14:55,102
And so I think it's why he didn't
want any of those manuscripts to read.
296
00:14:55,102 --> 00:14:57,938
Exactly the same.
Because he's trying to get across to us.
297
00:14:57,938 --> 00:15:01,358
Dude, it's the message
that I want you to focus on.
298
00:15:01,442 --> 00:15:04,028
Don't be worshiping these words.
299
00:15:04,028 --> 00:15:07,698
And yet I didn't
I didn't allow enough change in there
300
00:15:07,698 --> 00:15:10,618
that you have to worry about
is maybe the message is different.
301
00:15:10,618 --> 00:15:13,746
No, the message is the same in
all the manuscripts.
302
00:15:13,746 --> 00:15:15,748
So, you know, God's God's,
303
00:15:17,499 --> 00:15:18,083
his his
304
00:15:18,083 --> 00:15:22,296
ways are just always, you know, smarter
than ours and things that we think.
305
00:15:22,504 --> 00:15:25,507
Because I always thought, well,
if I was God, I would have preserved that.
306
00:15:25,591 --> 00:15:28,510
And yeah, he saw the trap
that that would have created.
307
00:15:28,510 --> 00:15:30,137
Now, this is my answer.
308
00:15:30,137 --> 00:15:33,849
And, you know, I may get to heaven and say,
Dave, you got that all wrong. You.
309
00:15:33,933 --> 00:15:35,351
This is the reason I didn't do this.
310
00:15:35,351 --> 00:15:38,646
So so this is just,
you know, how I thought through the
311
00:15:38,646 --> 00:15:41,649
the problem and realize
it wasn't a problem.
312
00:15:42,066 --> 00:15:44,735
so the ones like the King James
313
00:15:44,735 --> 00:15:48,197
only people and and you know, I'm
using the new King James.
314
00:15:48,197 --> 00:15:49,239
When I did the Romans
315
00:15:49,239 --> 00:15:52,660
commentary, we were talking about that,
I actually use the the King James
316
00:15:52,993 --> 00:15:55,454
because there's a copyright issue
with the new King James.
317
00:15:55,454 --> 00:15:58,874
They they will not let you use it
for a commentary
318
00:15:59,124 --> 00:16:01,585
unless you get written permission
and pay them,
319
00:16:01,585 --> 00:16:03,379
you know, some kind of royalty
or something like that.
320
00:16:03,379 --> 00:16:08,050
So I had to go back to the original King
James and I did that
321
00:16:08,050 --> 00:16:11,053
with the Matthew commentary
and then with the the Romans.
322
00:16:11,053 --> 00:16:15,099
And I really grew in respect
for the King James.
323
00:16:15,099 --> 00:16:18,435
I mean,
those translators did a tremendous job.
324
00:16:18,894 --> 00:16:20,813
now I'm not into archaic English.
325
00:16:20,813 --> 00:16:22,231
You know,
I didn't grow up with the King James.
326
00:16:22,231 --> 00:16:24,566
And so the archaic English is.
327
00:16:24,566 --> 00:16:26,944
Yeah, I don't enjoy wrestling with it.
328
00:16:26,944 --> 00:16:29,488
But as far as their
329
00:16:30,948 --> 00:16:32,616
they weren't,
330
00:16:32,616 --> 00:16:33,617
inerrant.
331
00:16:33,617 --> 00:16:36,829
Some King James people would want to make
the King James inerrant.
332
00:16:37,079 --> 00:16:40,124
The problem is we have several editions
of the King James.
333
00:16:40,124 --> 00:16:44,044
You know, it was 1611,
but then I think there was 1 in 1614.
334
00:16:44,044 --> 00:16:48,132
And the one that's usually used
today is from, the 1700s.
335
00:16:48,132 --> 00:16:50,884
And then it's been,
you know, changed a little bit from that.
336
00:16:50,884 --> 00:16:52,261
Yes. Yeah. 1800s.
337
00:16:52,261 --> 00:16:54,346
So it's like, well, which one
338
00:16:54,346 --> 00:16:58,142
I mean, if it's going to depend on
every little word or something like,
339
00:16:58,142 --> 00:17:01,145
like that, but if it's the message,
it doesn't matter.
340
00:17:01,603 --> 00:17:06,942
But I do want a Bible translation
that is not loose.
341
00:17:06,942 --> 00:17:08,235
I don't like paraphrases.
342
00:17:08,235 --> 00:17:11,363
I don't like where they say,
well, we're translating it.
343
00:17:11,363 --> 00:17:12,990
Thought for thought.
344
00:17:12,990 --> 00:17:16,744
Well, you don't necessarily know Paul's
thought when you say thought for thought,
345
00:17:16,744 --> 00:17:17,828
what you mean is
346
00:17:18,829 --> 00:17:20,539
what I think Paul was saying.
347
00:17:20,539 --> 00:17:21,915
And that's what I'm translating.
348
00:17:21,915 --> 00:17:25,878
Well, just hey, give me the words
and let me do the interpreting, you know,
349
00:17:25,878 --> 00:17:27,921
don't don't
you do the interpreting for me.
350
00:17:27,921 --> 00:17:29,673
Just how did Paul say it?
351
00:17:29,673 --> 00:17:32,301
You know, and so I like the King James.
352
00:17:32,301 --> 00:17:33,469
It's fairly literal.
353
00:17:33,469 --> 00:17:36,346
You know, the ESV does a good job, too.
354
00:17:36,346 --> 00:17:39,767
They claim to be more literal
than the King James, well, yeah.
355
00:17:39,850 --> 00:17:42,186
Yeah,
I don't know. That's a subjective thing.
356
00:17:42,186 --> 00:17:43,937
I would say the King
James is more literal,
357
00:17:43,937 --> 00:17:46,940
just from working with the two
and looking at them.
358
00:17:47,066 --> 00:17:49,735
But I do appreciate
a more literal translation.
359
00:17:49,735 --> 00:17:52,488
So yeah, the King
James is great in that regard.
360
00:17:52,488 --> 00:17:55,491
I'm not knocking it, but to imagine that
361
00:17:56,033 --> 00:18:00,287
those translators
had the precise Greek manuscript,
362
00:18:00,704 --> 00:18:06,085
because it's based on Erasmus
made three different Greek New Testaments
363
00:18:06,085 --> 00:18:06,877
So he.
364
00:18:06,877 --> 00:18:10,547
okay, so what's with, this is Textus
Receptus we're talking about now.
365
00:18:10,547 --> 00:18:10,798
Right.
366
00:18:10,798 --> 00:18:15,677
Which so Textus Receptus manuscript
which is the Koine Greek New Testament
367
00:18:15,677 --> 00:18:17,846
which you can still buy it,
you know, today.
368
00:18:17,846 --> 00:18:20,390
That's, that's what the King
James is based on.
369
00:18:20,390 --> 00:18:21,391
Right. Just to make sure we get.
370
00:18:21,391 --> 00:18:23,727
Okay,
make sure I got our context here. Okay.
371
00:18:23,727 --> 00:18:26,188
The Textus Receptus is
is an inflated name.
372
00:18:26,188 --> 00:18:29,274
It sounds like, oh the received text
or something like that.
373
00:18:29,483 --> 00:18:33,987
It's just so Erasmus,
like I say, you had these handwritten ones
374
00:18:33,987 --> 00:18:37,282
and he wanted to get a Greek
375
00:18:37,282 --> 00:18:40,494
text and have it printed and,
376
00:18:41,495 --> 00:18:42,621
but when he went to do it, he
377
00:18:42,621 --> 00:18:46,834
only had like two good manuscripts
to work from, and they were pretty late.
378
00:18:46,834 --> 00:18:48,961
I mean, like,
I couldn't tell you the exact year,
379
00:18:48,961 --> 00:18:52,756
but let's say the 1300s and 1200,
something like that, a long,
380
00:18:52,965 --> 00:18:55,843
a long ways removed
from when the Bible was written.
381
00:18:55,843 --> 00:18:59,471
And I think somebody else was working on
getting one printed, too.
382
00:18:59,471 --> 00:19:01,849
And so he was in a somewhat of a rush.
383
00:19:01,849 --> 00:19:04,852
I want to get this out
before this other person does.
384
00:19:04,893 --> 00:19:06,979
So he took these two.
385
00:19:06,979 --> 00:19:09,982
But, he neither one of them had the,
386
00:19:10,315 --> 00:19:13,402
the last part of revelation in them.
387
00:19:13,777 --> 00:19:16,780
And so he had he
then took the Latin Vulgate,
388
00:19:17,322 --> 00:19:21,243
which is a Latin translation,
and he took the Latin and translated it
389
00:19:21,243 --> 00:19:24,705
back into Greek so he could,
you know, make a Greek manuscript.
390
00:19:25,706 --> 00:19:26,540
He also took a
391
00:19:26,540 --> 00:19:29,710
passage in acts
that's not in any Greek manuscript.
392
00:19:29,710 --> 00:19:32,838
I mean, any you know,
we mentioned there's over 5000.
393
00:19:32,838 --> 00:19:35,257
None of them have this particular
sentence.
394
00:19:35,257 --> 00:19:39,553
It's not theologically important in acts,
but it was in the Latin Vulgate
395
00:19:39,553 --> 00:19:41,180
that Catholics were used to reading.
396
00:19:41,180 --> 00:19:42,472
So he stuck it in there,
397
00:19:42,472 --> 00:19:45,851
even though there is no Greek manuscript
that has that, you know.
398
00:19:47,477 --> 00:19:50,105
So. Well, then he revised it.
399
00:19:50,105 --> 00:19:55,110
There was a second edition and that's
what if and don't on on any of this.
400
00:19:55,110 --> 00:19:58,572
I'm going by memory so I may have,
you know, something a little bit off,
401
00:19:58,947 --> 00:20:00,407
if my memory serves me correct.
402
00:20:00,407 --> 00:20:03,410
It was his second edition that Luther used
403
00:20:03,493 --> 00:20:06,496
and that I think Tyndale maybe used.
404
00:20:07,581 --> 00:20:10,209
But Luther, I'm
almost certain, used his second edition
405
00:20:10,209 --> 00:20:14,004
and then the third one is the one
that the King James is based on.
406
00:20:14,463 --> 00:20:15,505
So, Okay.
407
00:20:15,505 --> 00:20:15,714
Yeah.
408
00:20:15,714 --> 00:20:20,052
It's so you so for
so I mean, since you brought it up.
409
00:20:20,052 --> 00:20:23,847
Right, we can just plow right into this
King James only thing because I know
410
00:20:23,847 --> 00:20:26,850
people will be, you know,
what does David Bercot think about that.
411
00:20:27,017 --> 00:20:27,809
Right.
412
00:20:27,809 --> 00:20:30,896
And again, it's not something
we've talked about on the podcast before,
413
00:20:30,896 --> 00:20:36,026
but essentially for someone who would say
King James, only, you would have to say
414
00:20:36,693 --> 00:20:40,697
that Erasmus was inspired
when he put that manuscript together.
415
00:20:40,781 --> 00:20:44,451
Am I tracking correct or is that
I mean, that feels like a pretty,
416
00:20:44,910 --> 00:20:48,163
pretty, gargantuan claim to me.
417
00:20:48,413 --> 00:20:49,998
Then you'd have to decide.
418
00:20:49,998 --> 00:20:53,001
So which of the three was he inspired on?
419
00:20:53,543 --> 00:20:59,216
So if the King James is the inspired one,
then Luther's is not,
420
00:20:59,549 --> 00:21:02,261
because, you know,
one was made from his third,
421
00:21:02,261 --> 00:21:05,264
the King James, if I've got it right
and one was made from his second,
422
00:21:05,514 --> 00:21:07,808
so you're having to say it wasn't.
What about Tyndale?
423
00:21:07,808 --> 00:21:08,850
What about Wycliffe?
424
00:21:08,850 --> 00:21:12,354
What about I mean,
what do you start doing with all of this?
425
00:21:12,354 --> 00:21:13,230
If you're saying,
426
00:21:14,189 --> 00:21:14,856
well, this is
427
00:21:14,856 --> 00:21:19,945
the Bible and that the other thing is,
if the King James were
428
00:21:20,237 --> 00:21:21,989
and I'm just talking
about the New Testament,
429
00:21:21,989 --> 00:21:26,410
were the exact Bible, we would have to say
430
00:21:26,660 --> 00:21:31,832
there is no Greek manuscript in existence
anywhere in the world
431
00:21:32,416 --> 00:21:35,961
that has the New Testament in it,
because there is no Greek
432
00:21:35,961 --> 00:21:40,048
manuscript that reads exactly
like the Textus Receptus.
433
00:21:40,090 --> 00:21:43,093
It was a conflation
of several manuscripts.
434
00:21:43,677 --> 00:21:44,928
Oh, I see what you're saying.
435
00:21:44,928 --> 00:21:47,097
So it's not like it exists as a whole.
436
00:21:47,097 --> 00:21:49,057
He's pulling together pieces.
437
00:21:49,057 --> 00:21:51,852
There is no single manuscript
that reads like the Textus Receptus.
438
00:21:51,852 --> 00:21:54,313
So you have to say it got lost.
439
00:21:54,313 --> 00:21:57,482
And like you say, you're going to have to
say Erasmus was inspired by God,
440
00:21:57,774 --> 00:22:00,861
who usually the King James People
don't like Erasmus, but you'd have to say
441
00:22:00,861 --> 00:22:04,906
he was inspired by God
to find the exact right ones
442
00:22:04,906 --> 00:22:10,454
and put them together precisely correctly
to get the original wording.
443
00:22:10,829 --> 00:22:12,080
Oh yeah. Yeah.
444
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,541
Wow. So but but see here's okay.
445
00:22:14,541 --> 00:22:18,253
So one of the challenges though is
446
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,548
people don't like ambiguity necessarily.
447
00:22:21,548 --> 00:22:24,176
And I'm saying this very broadly speaking.
448
00:22:24,176 --> 00:22:26,511
But you know, I have interacted
quite a bit with,
449
00:22:26,511 --> 00:22:29,514
with some people on the King
James only, world.
450
00:22:30,265 --> 00:22:32,768
So well, let me just read
the one of the questions here.
451
00:22:32,768 --> 00:22:34,394
I think I might have it
written better than than
452
00:22:34,394 --> 00:22:36,563
I can say it, but,
so some people would insist
453
00:22:36,563 --> 00:22:39,232
that this kind of textual variation
that we're talking about,
454
00:22:39,232 --> 00:22:41,985
means we don't have reliable access
to God's teaching in Scripture.
455
00:22:41,985 --> 00:22:45,405
So those basically kind of attempting
to deny
456
00:22:45,405 --> 00:22:48,575
the historical complexity
that's involved in the New Testament text.
457
00:22:49,201 --> 00:22:52,496
But then you could flip it around and say
that there are liberals or skeptics
458
00:22:52,496 --> 00:22:54,414
who claim that the Bible
was drastically changed.
459
00:22:54,414 --> 00:22:56,750
So then we can't know what it really said
either.
460
00:22:56,750 --> 00:22:58,418
And so how do we respond
to those concerns?
461
00:22:58,418 --> 00:23:04,007
It's kind of like you have two wildly
opposite extremes where, like you say,
462
00:23:04,007 --> 00:23:06,593
Bart Ehrman on one side is like,
I'm going to leave Christianity
463
00:23:06,593 --> 00:23:08,887
because there's variation
in these manuscripts
464
00:23:08,887 --> 00:23:11,431
all the way on the way other side,
you have someone saying,
465
00:23:11,431 --> 00:23:13,517
if it's not the King
James, it's not God's Word
466
00:23:13,517 --> 00:23:15,477
or whatever,
take your pick of whatever is said.
467
00:23:15,477 --> 00:23:21,066
Yeah, what ends up, what scares me
or what worries me is a young person
468
00:23:21,066 --> 00:23:25,612
hearing that, it'd be pretty easy
to get pulled around with those extremes,
469
00:23:25,612 --> 00:23:26,446
and I could
470
00:23:26,446 --> 00:23:27,906
well, actually just heard of one,
you know,
471
00:23:27,906 --> 00:23:31,076
just within the last week
of a young person who walked away
472
00:23:31,076 --> 00:23:34,371
from Christianity because they heard
some of this stuff from, oh,
473
00:23:34,496 --> 00:23:38,125
this is the only like they're like,
this is the true word of God.
474
00:23:38,125 --> 00:23:41,211
And then they ran into some of the stuff
from Bart Ehrman and says, well,
475
00:23:41,211 --> 00:23:43,130
there are some variations
and it through them for a loop.
476
00:23:43,130 --> 00:23:45,882
And they couldn't handle that
because they had been told, like,
477
00:23:45,882 --> 00:23:47,175
there can't be any variation.
478
00:23:47,175 --> 00:23:48,176
And then when they were shown, here
479
00:23:48,176 --> 00:23:51,555
is some variation in these manuscripts,
they left, they lost their faith.
480
00:23:52,139 --> 00:23:52,431
Over that.
481
00:23:52,431 --> 00:23:55,475
So how do we,
kind of a long, convoluted question,
482
00:23:55,475 --> 00:24:00,647
but how do we wrestle with these two
pretty opposite extremes, you know?
483
00:24:00,814 --> 00:24:04,234
So you know
certainly the answer isn't like a parent
484
00:24:04,234 --> 00:24:07,237
who tells their children
there's a Santa Clause, you know,
485
00:24:07,237 --> 00:24:10,157
and then when the child gets older
and realizes there isn't,
486
00:24:10,157 --> 00:24:11,825
then they don't trust their parent.
487
00:24:11,825 --> 00:24:12,868
You know, you tell them that.
488
00:24:12,868 --> 00:24:16,997
The truth is, I mean, I don't think
we get into Santa Claus, but.
489
00:24:17,956 --> 00:24:19,332
Yeah.
490
00:24:19,332 --> 00:24:22,461
So, yeah,
if you're honest with your children
491
00:24:22,461 --> 00:24:27,257
and if pastors are honest
with the congregation and if we as
492
00:24:27,257 --> 00:24:31,344
a people are honest about things,
then you don't have that happen.
493
00:24:31,344 --> 00:24:33,472
Like I say, I think I knew from the time
494
00:24:33,472 --> 00:24:35,515
I was a little boy
that there were variations.
495
00:24:35,515 --> 00:24:39,895
So it never was an issue to me
because, you know, I wasn't told, oh,
496
00:24:39,895 --> 00:24:41,146
we have the exact thing.
497
00:24:41,146 --> 00:24:45,317
And then later I found out we we didn't
just hey, just be honest from the start.
498
00:24:45,901 --> 00:24:48,778
Now, in answer to the other one, well,
we don't know what's true.
499
00:24:48,778 --> 00:24:51,865
Well, see,
it shows there was no collusion.
500
00:24:51,865 --> 00:24:56,578
I mean, if you had 5000 manuscripts
that were exactly the same,
501
00:24:56,828 --> 00:25:00,248
it would certainly look like
people got in the back room and, you know,
502
00:25:00,916 --> 00:25:04,920
let's make sure this is this,
you know, when they vary.
503
00:25:05,086 --> 00:25:06,796
And yet the message doesn't vary,
504
00:25:07,839 --> 00:25:08,965
then yeah,
505
00:25:08,965 --> 00:25:12,677
it shows that, okay,
we can know what the message was
506
00:25:12,719 --> 00:25:15,514
because we have all of these
independent witnesses.
507
00:25:15,514 --> 00:25:19,726
The fact that they don't read precisely
the same shows that they're independent.
508
00:25:20,310 --> 00:25:23,563
And yet the message is the same
throughout them.
509
00:25:23,563 --> 00:25:26,816
The variations are so insignificant that,
510
00:25:27,025 --> 00:25:30,779
hey, it does show
we can rely on on the message.
511
00:25:31,029 --> 00:25:35,825
And again, because it doesn't depend upon
the exact wording, we can translate it
512
00:25:35,825 --> 00:25:40,205
into, you know, languages
that are really different than Greek.
513
00:25:40,205 --> 00:25:41,122
You know, like, you know,
514
00:25:41,122 --> 00:25:45,293
some language on an island somewhere,
let's say in the South Pacific, that,
515
00:25:45,544 --> 00:25:49,130
you know, it's from a different language
family that doesn't even have any roots.
516
00:25:49,130 --> 00:25:52,968
The same with Greek, but you can still
translate it because it's the message.
517
00:25:53,093 --> 00:25:56,096
But the words are going to be,
you know, very different.
518
00:25:56,137 --> 00:26:00,684
But see this
the thing that is so silly about that is
519
00:26:01,518 --> 00:26:05,063
we have over 40,000 denominations
520
00:26:05,063 --> 00:26:09,109
and sects and, you know, these independent
megachurches and all of that.
521
00:26:10,193 --> 00:26:12,320
And the majority of them
522
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,323
were around
when everyone used the King James.
523
00:26:16,283 --> 00:26:19,286
So, in other words,
what difference does it make,
524
00:26:19,452 --> 00:26:22,455
even if you had the precise Bible,
525
00:26:22,664 --> 00:26:26,042
if people interpret it differently, it's
not going to change how you interpret it.
526
00:26:26,418 --> 00:26:29,296
You still going to have so
527
00:26:29,296 --> 00:26:34,509
and unless we have Paul with us to say
this is how you should interpret it,
528
00:26:34,843 --> 00:26:37,929
we're still in the same situation
because the variation
529
00:26:37,929 --> 00:26:43,602
isn't because they use different
translations, it's because they interpret
530
00:26:43,602 --> 00:26:46,896
the existing one different,
even Jehovah's Witnesses,
531
00:26:47,188 --> 00:26:50,108
you know, now they have this,
you know, their own translation and stuff.
532
00:26:50,108 --> 00:26:52,694
But when they started,
they were using the King James.
533
00:26:52,694 --> 00:26:54,738
That was yeah, that was their Bible.
534
00:26:54,738 --> 00:26:57,616
And their doctrinal all was developed
using the King James.
535
00:26:57,616 --> 00:27:00,201
So maybe this is a bit of a,
536
00:27:01,202 --> 00:27:04,331
a smokescreen or or or something.
537
00:27:04,331 --> 00:27:06,416
I don't know, I'm
trying to think the right terminology.
538
00:27:06,416 --> 00:27:09,711
If we get fixated on, oh, there can't be
539
00:27:09,711 --> 00:27:13,214
any variation in manuscripts
when really you're saying, hey, you know,
540
00:27:13,214 --> 00:27:16,551
there's a lot of diversity just in humans
interpreting things differently.
541
00:27:17,010 --> 00:27:18,470
I mean,
542
00:27:18,470 --> 00:27:20,847
I honestly,
I hadn't really thought about that before.
543
00:27:20,847 --> 00:27:22,390
That makes a lot of sense though.
544
00:27:22,390 --> 00:27:25,935
then and also with translation,
you know, so,
545
00:27:26,936 --> 00:27:29,105
it's like I say
546
00:27:29,105 --> 00:27:32,484
we need to focus
that God's Word is his message.
547
00:27:32,776 --> 00:27:34,861
It's not the exact thing.
548
00:27:34,861 --> 00:27:40,367
And yet there's so little variation,
even with 5000 plus manuscripts,
549
00:27:40,700 --> 00:27:45,914
that we can be confident what we have is
very similar to what the apostles wrote.
550
00:27:46,206 --> 00:27:49,501
And so that, you know, to me
is comforting.
551
00:27:49,793 --> 00:27:53,046
One reason I use, you know, the,
552
00:27:54,005 --> 00:27:55,215
I use the new King James because,
553
00:27:55,215 --> 00:27:58,385
again, archaic English is not
I didn't grow up with it.
554
00:27:59,094 --> 00:28:01,763
Is it's the fullest.
555
00:28:01,763 --> 00:28:04,766
So with all these manuscripts,
556
00:28:05,308 --> 00:28:08,311
some of them contain incidents
like the woman who was caught in
557
00:28:08,311 --> 00:28:11,314
adultery has become really famous.
558
00:28:11,314 --> 00:28:14,109
None of the early Christians mentioned
that incident.
559
00:28:14,109 --> 00:28:14,609
Really.
560
00:28:14,609 --> 00:28:18,988
And none of the early Bible, none of the
the earliest manuscripts don't mention it.
561
00:28:18,988 --> 00:28:21,908
Okay. It's
now become one of the most popular
562
00:28:21,908 --> 00:28:24,744
because people like Jesus saying,
you know,
563
00:28:24,744 --> 00:28:27,622
you know,
whoever has no sin cast the first stone.
564
00:28:27,622 --> 00:28:28,790
We like that part.
565
00:28:28,790 --> 00:28:31,167
And I'm, you know, I don't know,
566
00:28:31,167 --> 00:28:35,171
but what I like about the Textus Receptus
or the majority text.
567
00:28:35,171 --> 00:28:37,340
Right now, there's a group of Anabaptists,
568
00:28:37,340 --> 00:28:40,802
working on translating the Bible
using the majority text Interesting.
569
00:28:41,094 --> 00:28:43,304
Wait,
is that similar to the Textus Receptus?
570
00:28:43,304 --> 00:28:45,515
Very similar
So the Textus Receptus would be
571
00:28:46,683 --> 00:28:48,601
in the majority text family.
572
00:28:48,601 --> 00:28:52,856
It's just it's taking a few of those
manuscripts and it's based on that,
573
00:28:52,856 --> 00:28:55,817
where the majority text
would be taking the large group
574
00:28:55,817 --> 00:28:57,944
and saying how how did the majority read?
575
00:28:57,944 --> 00:29:01,156
And then majority doesn't
always follow the Textus Receptus.
576
00:29:01,448 --> 00:29:04,284
There's so little variation
it doesn't matter.
577
00:29:04,284 --> 00:29:07,287
But the nice thing with the majority text
or the Textus Receptus is
578
00:29:08,955 --> 00:29:11,791
let's say that that wasn't
originally part of the Bible,
579
00:29:11,791 --> 00:29:15,712
about the woman caught in adultery,
it might still be a true account.
580
00:29:15,712 --> 00:29:17,338
In other words,
it may be a true narrative.
581
00:29:17,338 --> 00:29:21,593
It just wasn't originally
in, John's Gospel, but it was true.
582
00:29:21,593 --> 00:29:24,596
And so somebody added it later.
583
00:29:24,721 --> 00:29:27,098
So how does that change my Christian?
584
00:29:27,098 --> 00:29:29,559
How I live from day to day?
585
00:29:29,559 --> 00:29:30,977
It doesn't change anything.
586
00:29:30,977 --> 00:29:31,436
What is it?
587
00:29:31,436 --> 00:29:32,979
How does it change my view of salvation
588
00:29:32,979 --> 00:29:35,815
or my view of the Trinity,
or the view of anything?
589
00:29:35,815 --> 00:29:39,486
It has no effect on it, you know,
and that's one of the larger things
590
00:29:39,486 --> 00:29:42,197
that there's I mean, usually it's just,
you know, one word
591
00:29:42,197 --> 00:29:45,158
that's that's different.
That's the whole episode.
592
00:29:45,158 --> 00:29:46,785
But even something that large
593
00:29:46,785 --> 00:29:49,788
and that's probably the largest,
you know, single episode,
594
00:29:50,246 --> 00:29:53,124
it makes no difference
in how we live as Christians,
595
00:29:53,124 --> 00:29:57,420
that's the irony of it, that people worry
about all of these things
596
00:29:57,796 --> 00:30:01,257
that don't affect
how we live, don't affect, you know,
597
00:30:01,257 --> 00:30:03,218
the fundamentals of Christianity.
598
00:30:03,218 --> 00:30:07,806
But I was saying so in with the majority
text or the Textus Receptus, okay.
599
00:30:07,806 --> 00:30:09,349
It may have some things in there
600
00:30:09,349 --> 00:30:12,769
that weren't in the original,
I don't know, but I can feel
601
00:30:13,186 --> 00:30:17,065
fairly confident that I have everything
that was there.
602
00:30:17,065 --> 00:30:20,026
I may have a little bit more
than was there, but I've got it all.
603
00:30:20,026 --> 00:30:21,319
Nothing's missing.
604
00:30:21,319 --> 00:30:24,614
Whereas with some of the others
like who don't have that in there,
605
00:30:24,781 --> 00:30:27,575
well, maybe they're missing it
and maybe that was part of it,
606
00:30:27,575 --> 00:30:29,577
but usually the other Bibles
they put it in.
607
00:30:29,577 --> 00:30:31,788
And then just say the early manuscripts
don't have that.
608
00:30:31,788 --> 00:30:33,706
So either way you read it
609
00:30:33,706 --> 00:30:34,958
and and maybe I should maybe
610
00:30:34,958 --> 00:30:37,168
that's going to stumble
someone that I brought that up.
611
00:30:37,168 --> 00:30:40,129
But again, hey, we should be on
612
00:30:40,129 --> 00:30:43,341
truth is never something
a Christian should be afraid of, you know?
613
00:30:43,716 --> 00:30:48,346
And so if we create these fake things,
then when we're hit with truth, it’s
614
00:30:48,346 --> 00:30:49,556
going to stumble us.
615
00:30:49,556 --> 00:30:53,268
So we're talking about the Textus Receptus
and the King James. So,
616
00:30:54,561 --> 00:30:56,813
I know when we were talking in,
617
00:30:56,813 --> 00:31:00,441
in private, you were mentioning it,
you grew up reading Jack Chick tracks and
618
00:31:00,733 --> 00:31:04,696
and things and,
and I've read I've had them handed to me
619
00:31:04,696 --> 00:31:08,950
jack chick tracks on the,
Textus Receptus and the King James.
620
00:31:08,950 --> 00:31:11,870
Yeah. The.
Oh, yeah, he's got a whole bunch of stuff.
621
00:31:11,870 --> 00:31:13,204
But there's one of them.
622
00:31:13,204 --> 00:31:16,165
One of his and Jack chick was brilliant.
623
00:31:16,165 --> 00:31:20,545
I mean, I dislike his dishonesty
and stuff,
624
00:31:21,087 --> 00:31:25,216
but if there's a jack chick track there,
I'm likely to pick it up.
625
00:31:26,092 --> 00:31:27,260
You know, he knew how to.
626
00:31:27,260 --> 00:31:31,306
That people are drawn to animation,
you know, and you just pick them up.
627
00:31:31,306 --> 00:31:35,351
I mean, you know, I, I will give,
you know, give him his due that that he,
628
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:40,607
he was a genius at communicating truths
using that.
629
00:31:40,607 --> 00:31:43,610
The problem was
he did not have a high standard of
630
00:31:44,193 --> 00:31:47,780
I'm only going to put out what I know
is true and I mean a lot of his stuff.
631
00:31:47,780 --> 00:31:49,532
He just makes up absolute lies.
632
00:31:49,532 --> 00:31:51,701
And he does on the one
about the Textus Receptus.
633
00:31:51,701 --> 00:31:55,622
So I was reading it,
it was given to me and according to it,
634
00:31:56,164 --> 00:32:00,710
okay, the early Christians had this,
and they had the real Bible.
635
00:32:00,710 --> 00:32:01,419
Okay.
636
00:32:01,419 --> 00:32:02,962
Now it's interesting because like you say,
637
00:32:02,962 --> 00:32:05,965
when you read the early Christians,
you find all of these variations
638
00:32:06,215 --> 00:32:10,386
are there before the year 200 or nearly
all of Yeah, I did not know that.
639
00:32:10,386 --> 00:32:11,512
That is interesting.
640
00:32:11,512 --> 00:32:12,263
Anyways, sorry.
641
00:32:12,263 --> 00:32:16,309
Continue and so then when Constantine
created the Catholic Church and all that,
642
00:32:16,601 --> 00:32:20,521
then the true Christians, they went
and they had the, the original manuscripts
643
00:32:20,521 --> 00:32:21,648
and he hid them in a cave.
644
00:32:21,648 --> 00:32:22,440
Okay.
645
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,902
And and, you know, they kept watch
so that that would be preserved.
646
00:32:25,902 --> 00:32:29,197
And then the Waldensians got that,
and then they translated
647
00:32:29,197 --> 00:32:32,283
the Bible, you know, from the real thing.
648
00:32:32,283 --> 00:32:35,870
And then that's also what you know,
came down to the King James.
649
00:32:36,412 --> 00:32:39,082
Well, that is an absolute lie.
650
00:32:39,082 --> 00:32:40,792
Nothing like that happened.
651
00:32:40,792 --> 00:32:43,419
Absolutely
nothing like that happened in the
652
00:32:43,419 --> 00:32:46,965
what is so absurd
is we have the Waldensian Bible.
653
00:32:46,965 --> 00:32:51,177
I mean, it's still around and it doesn't
follow the, the Textus Receptus.
654
00:32:51,177 --> 00:32:54,889
I mean, it's like it's like,
this is so absurd.
655
00:32:55,098 --> 00:32:56,474
You're just you're just lying.
656
00:32:56,474 --> 00:32:58,685
You you don't even care about the truth.
657
00:32:58,685 --> 00:33:02,897
So when people are moved to that extent
that I've got to believe this
658
00:33:02,897 --> 00:33:06,651
and I will lie to do it, well,
then that should tell you then.
659
00:33:07,151 --> 00:33:08,903
Okay, there's something seriously wrong.
660
00:33:08,903 --> 00:33:11,864
Because when we have the actual truth,
661
00:33:11,948 --> 00:33:14,409
then we're not scared of new facts
that go against it.
662
00:33:14,409 --> 00:33:15,076
You know?
663
00:33:15,076 --> 00:33:18,746
And we don't make up lies
to try to cover them and all of that.
664
00:33:18,746 --> 00:33:23,126
We just look things in the face and the,
like I say to me,
665
00:33:23,126 --> 00:33:26,629
the good news is that, wow,
I can be very confident.
666
00:33:26,629 --> 00:33:30,008
When I read the New Testament
that I'm reading God's Word, you know,
667
00:33:30,008 --> 00:33:32,093
and there may be
a question about, you know,
668
00:33:33,261 --> 00:33:35,847
you know, the woman caught in adultery
or something like that.
669
00:33:35,847 --> 00:33:40,643
And it doesn't make one lick of difference
on what I, you know, practice
670
00:33:40,643 --> 00:33:44,522
what I believe about God
and any of the fundamentals of the faith
671
00:33:44,981 --> 00:33:47,984
and whether it was in John's account,
672
00:33:47,984 --> 00:33:50,778
it could still be an absolutely
true story, you know?
673
00:33:50,778 --> 00:33:53,740
And so, yeah, it could still be true.
674
00:33:53,740 --> 00:33:57,952
And let's just say it's, you know,
someone made up a a good sounding story.
675
00:33:57,952 --> 00:33:58,745
Okay.
676
00:33:58,745 --> 00:34:01,748
Hasn't done me any harm either,
you know? So,
677
00:34:02,874 --> 00:34:06,169
yeah,
it's actually just looking at the truth
678
00:34:06,169 --> 00:34:10,423
and not being scared of it has, you know,
definitely worked in my favor.
679
00:34:10,423 --> 00:34:12,884
And, of course, I would have discovered
all that the minute
680
00:34:12,884 --> 00:34:15,136
I started reading the early Christians,
I would have noticed.
681
00:34:15,136 --> 00:34:17,930
Wow. They quote these things
a lot of different ways.
682
00:34:17,930 --> 00:34:20,683
You know, they weren't
the least bit bothered by that.
683
00:34:20,683 --> 00:34:23,436
You know, it's just like,
but that's that's so interesting though,
684
00:34:23,436 --> 00:34:27,023
because so many people are bothered
by that now, you know, because like,
685
00:34:27,023 --> 00:34:31,986
if you if you grow up in a church setting
that's like, this is God's word
686
00:34:31,986 --> 00:34:36,240
and you're never told that there's
any kind of variation in the Greek
687
00:34:36,240 --> 00:34:39,786
and all this stuff, and then let's say
you go take a college course
688
00:34:39,786 --> 00:34:42,914
or whatever, and the professor says, oh,
and by the way, duh duh duh, this.
689
00:34:43,206 --> 00:34:46,959
You know, that could be extremely
disorienting, you know?
690
00:34:46,959 --> 00:34:52,173
And so how how do we
how do we walk through that?
691
00:34:52,173 --> 00:34:53,508
Like how?
692
00:34:53,508 --> 00:34:54,217
Yeah, I don't know.
693
00:34:54,217 --> 00:34:56,344
I feel like this could be kind of
a real challenge, actually.
694
00:34:56,344 --> 00:34:59,430
Like for, for pastors
and, and people looking into this and.
695
00:34:59,514 --> 00:35:02,975
Yeah, it's just I just feel like
I'll just say it again, you know,
696
00:35:04,435 --> 00:35:07,438
a Christian should
never have to be afraid of the truth.
697
00:35:07,438 --> 00:35:11,359
And if we if we start from the beginning
of being honest and,
698
00:35:11,359 --> 00:35:15,696
and having a high regard
for intellectual and spiritual honesty,
699
00:35:15,863 --> 00:35:18,199
then we don't get into these things where,
700
00:35:18,199 --> 00:35:21,369
like I said, I hope you don't
get a bunch of people angry with you,
701
00:35:21,577 --> 00:35:24,789
but if they are, it's like,
so what are you angry about?
702
00:35:24,789 --> 00:35:28,835
Do you have some facts that are different
than what we've just shared here tonight?
703
00:35:28,835 --> 00:35:30,503
I can guarantee you they don't.
704
00:35:30,503 --> 00:35:33,214
They'll have jack chick tracks
and they'll have some books,
705
00:35:33,214 --> 00:35:36,217
you know, published by him
and by other people.
706
00:35:36,425 --> 00:35:39,554
They will have no facts that are
that are different.
707
00:35:41,055 --> 00:35:44,016
And so it's like,
why would you want to build a faith
708
00:35:44,016 --> 00:35:45,393
on something that's not true?
709
00:35:45,393 --> 00:35:47,979
You know, my faith is just as strong
710
00:35:47,979 --> 00:35:52,233
and I have no problem
facing the truth about the manuscripts.
711
00:35:52,233 --> 00:35:54,819
It's like I just see a brilliant God.
712
00:35:54,819 --> 00:35:56,779
You know, who, who, who?
713
00:35:56,779 --> 00:36:01,075
He knew his word was going to be
translated into hundreds of languages,
714
00:36:01,492 --> 00:36:05,246
and so it couldn't be dependent
on the wording in the Greek,
715
00:36:05,246 --> 00:36:08,749
the precise wording,
because then the whole world,
716
00:36:08,749 --> 00:36:11,419
only a little group of people
would actually have his word.
717
00:36:11,419 --> 00:36:12,295
You know, and would have to be trying
to get all these people to learn
718
00:36:12,295 --> 00:36:15,131
You know, and would have to be trying
to get all these people to learn
719
00:36:15,590 --> 00:36:18,134
Greek, including David
Bercot, you know, and, and.
720
00:36:21,053 --> 00:36:23,264
And I've studied it, but wow.
721
00:36:23,264 --> 00:36:25,933
It's I'm, I don't take to it easily.
722
00:36:25,933 --> 00:36:28,936
That's that's for sure. It's, it's,
723
00:36:29,187 --> 00:36:32,648
So yeah,
I appreciate that God made his word.
724
00:36:32,857 --> 00:36:36,152
So there's enough flexibility
725
00:36:36,444 --> 00:36:40,740
that the message can be translated,
into different languages.
726
00:36:41,032 --> 00:36:44,660
And it's still God's Word
because it's still his message.
727
00:36:44,785 --> 00:36:46,913
Unless somebody
just really messes with it.
728
00:36:46,913 --> 00:36:49,582
Like I say,
I don't like these these paraphrases.
729
00:36:49,582 --> 00:36:52,835
Now that I have a big problem with,
you know, give me God's word.
730
00:36:52,877 --> 00:36:54,337
Translate it.
731
00:36:54,337 --> 00:36:57,340
Yes, you might have some errors
in your translation,
732
00:36:57,381 --> 00:37:01,052
but at least try to translate it
fairly literally.
733
00:37:01,052 --> 00:37:03,387
You can’t translate it
absolutely literally.
734
00:37:03,387 --> 00:37:06,098
But but as literal as possible.
735
00:37:06,098 --> 00:37:08,392
And yeah, then let me work from there.
736
00:37:08,392 --> 00:37:10,895
And it's nice
that we have several translations.
737
00:37:10,895 --> 00:37:15,149
Well, I mean, we have hundreds of them,
but we have good ones we can compare
738
00:37:15,149 --> 00:37:19,028
and, and see and oh, okay,
that can often shed light.
739
00:37:19,028 --> 00:37:24,533
And like I say, I also like looking at
how the early Christians quoted things
740
00:37:24,742 --> 00:37:28,246
and how they understood the Greek,
because often it is very different than,
741
00:37:28,246 --> 00:37:29,789
than even the King James.
742
00:37:29,789 --> 00:37:32,792
I mean, there's things in the King
James that are,
743
00:37:33,251 --> 00:37:35,211
well, I, you know, working on the Romans
commentary.
744
00:37:35,211 --> 00:37:36,462
Do we have time to go into this?
745
00:37:37,463 --> 00:37:38,381
So I'm working on it.
746
00:37:38,381 --> 00:37:40,132
And this really surprised me
because, like I said,
747
00:37:40,132 --> 00:37:43,594
I really have a lot of respect for
for the King James translators.
748
00:37:43,886 --> 00:37:48,224
And, you know, I was I was using them
and comparing with the early Christians
749
00:37:48,224 --> 00:37:51,978
and, you know, it just yeah, this is great
how the King James has it,
750
00:37:51,978 --> 00:37:53,062
you know, and I would compare
751
00:37:53,062 --> 00:37:55,189
sometimes with the NIV
or something is like, no,
752
00:37:55,189 --> 00:37:56,816
the King James translators got it right.
753
00:37:56,816 --> 00:37:59,652
You know, because this is how the early
Christians are understanding it.
754
00:37:59,652 --> 00:38:01,988
And I can't quote it,
755
00:38:01,988 --> 00:38:04,991
the chapter and verse, but in there.
756
00:38:05,658 --> 00:38:09,495
Paul says that he's quoting actually from
I think it's
757
00:38:09,495 --> 00:38:13,958
Isaiah that, God would make a short
word on the earth.
758
00:38:14,166 --> 00:38:17,003
Okay. Is what he says.
759
00:38:17,003 --> 00:38:20,673
But the King James says
he would make a short work on the earth.
760
00:38:21,257 --> 00:38:22,842
Okay, now
761
00:38:24,135 --> 00:38:26,095
that sounds more reasonable than word.
762
00:38:26,095 --> 00:38:29,390
It's short work, and it's like I'm
reading the early Christians
763
00:38:29,390 --> 00:38:32,893
and they're saying word
and they they go into an explanation.
764
00:38:32,893 --> 00:38:36,314
There's no, you know, wondering,
did they maybe is that just a typo?
765
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:38,566
Because they talk about what
that word is, you know,
766
00:38:38,566 --> 00:38:41,569
it's the gospel, that it's a short thing
compared to the law
767
00:38:41,569 --> 00:38:42,903
that has all these commandments.
768
00:38:42,903 --> 00:38:44,113
And the gospel is very short.
769
00:38:44,113 --> 00:38:47,116
So the short word was the, the gospel.
770
00:38:48,075 --> 00:38:49,577
And it's like the King James says, work.
771
00:38:49,577 --> 00:38:50,077
Okay.
772
00:38:50,077 --> 00:38:54,081
I look at the Textus Receptus, I
look at the text and it's the Greek word,
773
00:38:54,498 --> 00:38:57,126
there is Logos, which is word.
774
00:38:57,126 --> 00:38:58,836
It's not Ergon, which is work.
775
00:38:58,836 --> 00:39:00,796
And it's like, what in the world?
776
00:39:00,796 --> 00:39:03,174
You had it right in front of you
and you changed it.
777
00:39:03,174 --> 00:39:07,303
Now Then I looked at the Tyndale,
which was before the King James.
778
00:39:07,303 --> 00:39:10,306
It has a short word. I looked at Geneva.
779
00:39:10,306 --> 00:39:13,225
All the ones before the King
James have word.
780
00:39:13,225 --> 00:39:15,436
The Wycliffe, they all have word.
781
00:39:15,436 --> 00:39:18,439
And then King James translators
put work in there, and it's like,
782
00:39:18,564 --> 00:39:20,191
why did you guys do this?
783
00:39:20,191 --> 00:39:23,027
Now, the funny thing is then
when you go to modern ones that they say
784
00:39:23,027 --> 00:39:26,655
a fresh translation from the Greek,
then they have short work.
785
00:39:26,655 --> 00:39:29,241
It's like, no way. Yeah, I'm not kidding.
786
00:39:29,241 --> 00:39:30,034
I'm not kidding.
787
00:39:30,034 --> 00:39:32,203
which ones do you know of any off
the top of your head?
788
00:39:32,203 --> 00:39:34,872
I'm pretty sure the NIV, ESV, I think.
789
00:39:34,872 --> 00:39:37,291
Yeah, check them out. I mean, All right.
790
00:39:37,291 --> 00:39:40,002
You're just. This is very important.
791
00:39:40,002 --> 00:39:42,171
Do we have any idea
which chapter verse this is?
792
00:39:42,171 --> 00:39:43,130
Oh, yeah. That's right.
793
00:39:43,130 --> 00:39:44,507
Oh, man.
794
00:39:44,507 --> 00:39:46,967
Someone's
going to dig it up in the comments. And,
795
00:39:47,927 --> 00:39:49,220
Well, no, hold on, hold on.
796
00:39:49,220 --> 00:39:50,137
Let's let's let's do it.
797
00:39:50,137 --> 00:39:51,097
Let's do a quick,
798
00:39:51,097 --> 00:39:55,309
let's do a quick search here because,
I mean, this is way too important here.
799
00:39:55,851 --> 00:39:56,352
My point wasn’t criticism, It's just that
800
00:39:56,352 --> 00:39:59,522
I don't think that these translators
were infallible.
801
00:39:59,522 --> 00:40:03,526
Just, hey, they did an admirable job,
but they were not infallible.
802
00:40:03,526 --> 00:40:06,695
You know, they they, change things,
not just there.
803
00:40:06,695 --> 00:40:08,739
They were several other things as well.
804
00:40:08,739 --> 00:40:11,325
You just changed it.
There was no reason to change it. It's.
805
00:40:11,325 --> 00:40:12,410
I don't think it's a typo.
806
00:40:12,410 --> 00:40:15,579
It's just
you thought this doesn't make sense.
807
00:40:15,579 --> 00:40:17,498
And so we're going to change this okay.
808
00:40:17,498 --> 00:40:20,793
But I can just see the comments
coming through already.
809
00:40:20,793 --> 00:40:25,089
Like someone is going to still find a way
to defend that and be
810
00:40:25,131 --> 00:40:27,174
and be like the King
James is still the right
811
00:40:27,174 --> 00:40:30,678
when you get that comment,
forward it to me because I'd like to see
812
00:40:31,262 --> 00:40:34,265
I want them to go to the
the Textus Receptus
813
00:40:35,141 --> 00:40:38,686
where it says word there Logos.
814
00:40:38,686 --> 00:40:41,897
And yeah explain that to me
how that can mean work.
815
00:40:42,022 --> 00:40:42,815
Okay.
816
00:40:42,815 --> 00:40:46,110
That I would like to see
I'd like to see someone defend that.
817
00:40:46,193 --> 00:40:46,610
All right.
818
00:40:46,610 --> 00:40:49,905
If, if you're a King James only person
or something who would like to.
819
00:40:49,905 --> 00:40:51,282
Because I would. Yeah.
820
00:40:51,282 --> 00:40:53,534
Because I know there are cases like that.
821
00:40:53,534 --> 00:40:56,829
I have a friend who's does some stuff
with Greek and blah, blah, blah.
822
00:40:56,829 --> 00:40:58,497
And they say, oh yeah, there,
823
00:40:58,497 --> 00:41:00,583
there are different points
where it's just like, oh yeah, they just
824
00:41:00,583 --> 00:41:02,626
they kind of messed up there.
Like you can read in the Greek.
825
00:41:02,626 --> 00:41:04,128
It's like,
yeah, it pretty clearly means this.
826
00:41:04,128 --> 00:41:07,423
And they, you know, they just
and some of that is, you know,
827
00:41:07,423 --> 00:41:09,633
maybe it was a mistake,
maybe it was this, that whatever.
828
00:41:09,633 --> 00:41:14,054
But it was just interesting because
if you grow up hearing this is God's word.
829
00:41:14,054 --> 00:41:18,184
And then if you have someone later on
tell you, oh, yeah, they messed up,
830
00:41:19,018 --> 00:41:20,102
depending on who you are,
831
00:41:20,102 --> 00:41:22,813
could actually rattle you
because if you're not taught this stuff.
832
00:41:22,813 --> 00:41:24,064
So anyway, that's kind of why I was like,
833
00:41:24,064 --> 00:41:25,816
I feel like this is an important enough
topic.
834
00:41:25,816 --> 00:41:29,028
You know, we're going to dive into it
and, and and it's not again,
835
00:41:29,653 --> 00:41:33,324
somebody who has been raised with a King
James is and is using it.
836
00:41:33,741 --> 00:41:34,408
Hey fine.
837
00:41:34,408 --> 00:41:35,868
Again I'm saying
838
00:41:35,868 --> 00:41:40,039
I think it is great now personally,
you know, working on these commentaries,
839
00:41:41,415 --> 00:41:43,292
when I do see something different
840
00:41:43,292 --> 00:41:44,084
in what's in our,
841
00:41:44,084 --> 00:41:47,171
you know, like, say the King
James or New King James like that, then
842
00:41:47,171 --> 00:41:50,174
I always go back to trying to figure out
why is it different?
843
00:41:51,008 --> 00:41:54,553
And, of course, I haven't done this
with the whole New Testament,
844
00:41:54,553 --> 00:41:58,390
so I can't say that
this rule applies equally.
845
00:41:58,724 --> 00:42:01,519
I have personally found
that more often than not,
846
00:42:01,519 --> 00:42:04,522
Wycliffe translates it
847
00:42:04,647 --> 00:42:07,733
more similar to the early church
than anyone after him.
848
00:42:07,983 --> 00:42:10,986
So you have Wycliffe,
which is the oldest English translation,
849
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:14,740
and I have personally found it
to be the most accurate.
850
00:42:15,032 --> 00:42:18,035
Even though he didn't translate
from Greek, he translated from Latin.
851
00:42:18,410 --> 00:42:22,039
And yeah, and it's really I know
and I was always told how terrible,
852
00:42:22,039 --> 00:42:23,374
you know, that was.
853
00:42:23,374 --> 00:42:26,585
And then Tyndale usually is better
854
00:42:26,585 --> 00:42:29,630
than the King
James and he's, you know, he's earlier.
855
00:42:29,630 --> 00:42:30,589
So it seems like.
856
00:42:30,589 --> 00:42:33,592
And then the King James is almost
always better than the NIV.
857
00:42:34,176 --> 00:42:36,804
So it is interesting.
858
00:42:36,804 --> 00:42:39,640
That's just what what I have found going
back, you know.
859
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,601
And so I like if it matters.
860
00:42:42,601 --> 00:42:46,647
But these things only mattered
because I was doing a commentary and I,
861
00:42:46,939 --> 00:42:48,274
you know, I had to discuss it.
862
00:42:48,274 --> 00:42:49,024
I had the
863
00:42:49,024 --> 00:42:52,486
the running text had to fit the comments
from the early Christians, you know,
864
00:42:52,861 --> 00:42:57,283
and when what they were saying didn't fit
the text of the King James or whatever.
865
00:42:57,491 --> 00:42:59,243
Then then that's when I started digging.
866
00:42:59,243 --> 00:43:02,246
It's like, well, okay, so why are they
saying something different here?
867
00:43:02,329 --> 00:43:05,249
And then I would find out,
oh, they're following the Greek.
868
00:43:05,249 --> 00:43:07,293
And for some reason
the King James changed it
869
00:43:07,293 --> 00:43:11,088
or whomever
that's, that is that is just bizarre.
870
00:43:11,130 --> 00:43:13,674
Like it's again, it is a small percentage.
871
00:43:13,674 --> 00:43:16,844
I mean, you know,
I don't when I read the The King James,
872
00:43:16,844 --> 00:43:18,887
I don't normally feel like,
oh, I better check this,
873
00:43:18,887 --> 00:43:21,265
make sure it's right, you know,
because it's, it's it's
874
00:43:21,265 --> 00:43:25,728
a very small percentage, but it's enough
I think that we should be honest.
875
00:43:25,728 --> 00:43:27,563
Look, these guys were not infallible.
876
00:43:27,563 --> 00:43:30,608
And they were very dedicated,
very learned,
877
00:43:30,608 --> 00:43:33,110
but they were not infallible.
878
00:43:33,110 --> 00:43:36,363
And for us as Anabaptists,
I never understood this coming in
879
00:43:36,363 --> 00:43:39,366
when I saw these people, King James only
it's like, now, wait a minute.
880
00:43:39,742 --> 00:43:43,120
One of the key
teachings of the Anabaptists was
881
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:45,080
you cannot have a state church.
882
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:48,083
That's wicked that a state church
is automatically corrupt.
883
00:43:48,459 --> 00:43:51,670
Well, the King
James Bible was a state Bible.
884
00:43:51,670 --> 00:43:57,217
It was commissioned by King James
and it was done with his permission,
885
00:43:57,217 --> 00:44:00,262
with his backing, with his money,
the state money.
886
00:44:00,638 --> 00:44:04,308
And it was made the official
the only Bible allowed
887
00:44:04,308 --> 00:44:06,143
in the English churches.
888
00:44:06,143 --> 00:44:07,394
So it was a state Bible.
889
00:44:07,394 --> 00:44:10,397
So it's like,
so why would we as Anabaptists
890
00:44:10,689 --> 00:44:15,736
latch on to a state Bible, a Bible
that's the product of a state church?
891
00:44:16,070 --> 00:44:20,866
Now, again, I use it because it's it's
like I say, an admirable translation,
892
00:44:20,991 --> 00:44:25,454
or I use a modernized version of it,
but it's like I don't worship it
893
00:44:25,454 --> 00:44:29,041
as the Bible,
because if God did give us the Bible,
894
00:44:29,041 --> 00:44:32,211
that we have it absolute,
he wouldn't do it to a state church.
895
00:44:32,461 --> 00:44:36,590
I mean, unless he wants us, unless
unless we're all wrong as Anabaptists
896
00:44:36,590 --> 00:44:38,217
and that God wants a state church.
897
00:44:38,217 --> 00:44:40,219
You know,
I don't think he would work that way.
898
00:44:40,219 --> 00:44:44,390
So it is an odd thing, you know, that
Anabaptists ought to step back and like,
899
00:44:44,723 --> 00:44:48,185
why are we
that's a it's kind of a good point.
900
00:44:48,185 --> 00:44:49,937
Like, yeah, maybe we should kind of whoa.
901
00:44:49,937 --> 00:44:50,688
Okay. Step back.
902
00:44:50,688 --> 00:44:52,898
Look at some of the broader context
that's going on.
903
00:44:52,898 --> 00:44:57,111
Also, I well before we were recording this
and we were talking through this episode
904
00:44:57,111 --> 00:44:58,278
and things you'd mentioned.
905
00:44:58,278 --> 00:44:58,904
Well, it's like also to keep in mind
the Anabaptist movement had been going on
906
00:44:58,904 --> 00:45:01,281
Well, it's like also to keep in mind
the Anabaptist movement had been going on
907
00:45:01,281 --> 00:45:04,910
for like 90 years before the King
James translation even existed.
908
00:45:05,202 --> 00:45:09,623
So this is it's not even part of our story
as a people, which is fascinating.
909
00:45:09,623 --> 00:45:12,626
Which what would have they read
just out of curiosity?
910
00:45:12,710 --> 00:45:14,128
Okay. Luther's translation interesting.
911
00:45:14,128 --> 00:45:17,256
So this is what the Amish use
today is Luther's Bible.
912
00:45:17,339 --> 00:45:20,134
Oh, okay. That makes sense. Yeah.
913
00:45:20,134 --> 00:45:23,137
So yeah, the Anabaptists,
I mean, they were still doing
914
00:45:23,637 --> 00:45:25,264
German services, you know.
915
00:45:25,264 --> 00:45:26,849
Well into the 1800s.
916
00:45:26,849 --> 00:45:27,516
So, yeah, they didn't
917
00:45:27,516 --> 00:45:31,603
start using the King James until,
you know, the last half of the 1800s.
918
00:45:31,603 --> 00:45:33,731
So it's like
this is very new in our movement.
919
00:45:33,731 --> 00:45:36,817
And now we're already worshiping it
as the infallible word of God.
920
00:45:36,817 --> 00:45:37,943
And it's like, wait a minute.
921
00:45:37,943 --> 00:45:41,613
You know, our people were using Luther's
Bible for centuries
922
00:45:41,739 --> 00:45:44,742
before we started even using the the King
James.
923
00:45:44,908 --> 00:45:45,617
Yeah. Wow.
924
00:45:45,617 --> 00:45:49,997
This this is just
this is this is, an interesting story
925
00:45:49,997 --> 00:45:51,248
with a lot of different pieces
926
00:45:51,248 --> 00:45:53,667
kind of weaving together,
and there's so many different things,
927
00:45:53,667 --> 00:45:56,670
and even like the psychology
involved in it and how people
928
00:45:57,045 --> 00:45:59,923
perceive the Bible and, and, Wow.
929
00:45:59,923 --> 00:46:01,467
Yeah, it's kind of a lot to think about.
930
00:46:01,467 --> 00:46:05,095
And I'm really curious what the responses
are going to be for starters.
931
00:46:05,721 --> 00:46:10,517
But I think one of the takeaways from
this is, is maybe taking a step back
932
00:46:10,517 --> 00:46:13,687
from some of our biases and actually
looking at more of the context.
933
00:46:13,687 --> 00:46:16,690
It feels like that's
what you've been doing a lot with
934
00:46:16,690 --> 00:46:19,568
comparing with some of these
other earlier, like pre King James
935
00:46:19,568 --> 00:46:22,738
and then even some of this stuff
with where the Textus Receptus comes from.
936
00:46:22,738 --> 00:46:23,489
That was interesting.
937
00:46:23,489 --> 00:46:25,949
I didn't I hadn't really thought
about some of that before.
938
00:46:25,949 --> 00:46:26,909
Yeah that's really good. I
939
00:46:27,534 --> 00:46:28,619
what is a piece you would
940
00:46:28,619 --> 00:46:33,040
want to leave our audience
with when we think about these things?
941
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:34,541
Because they are going to run into this.
942
00:46:34,541 --> 00:46:37,002
I'm sure the variations
between different manuscripts
943
00:46:37,002 --> 00:46:39,046
and people will probably be out there
trying to convince them.
944
00:46:39,046 --> 00:46:43,592
Therefore, Christianity is not real
or therefore King James only, or whatever
945
00:46:43,926 --> 00:46:44,802
the case may be.
946
00:46:44,802 --> 00:46:46,970
There's lots of ideas and opinions.
947
00:46:46,970 --> 00:46:49,306
What's something you can that
we can leave our audience with?
948
00:46:49,306 --> 00:46:50,766
Let's leave them on solid ground.
949
00:46:50,766 --> 00:46:53,018
Yeah. So,
950
00:46:53,018 --> 00:46:55,938
years ago. Wow.
951
00:46:55,938 --> 00:47:00,150
About 18 years ago,
I, I was sharing a message at,
952
00:47:00,275 --> 00:47:05,531
with a group of people, in California,
and it got into Bible manuscripts,
953
00:47:05,531 --> 00:47:07,699
and I thought I was sharing something
that they would enjoy.
954
00:47:07,699 --> 00:47:09,701
I did not know
they were King James, only. Okay.
955
00:47:11,078 --> 00:47:14,623
Wow. Did I jump into a hornet's nest.
956
00:47:15,457 --> 00:47:17,876
And one of the brothers,
I mean, he stood up and said,
957
00:47:17,876 --> 00:47:21,505
I want to be able to tell my daughter,
you show her the Bible
958
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:24,925
and say, This is God's word.
959
00:47:25,050 --> 00:47:28,053
I want to be able to do that. You know?
960
00:47:28,345 --> 00:47:30,806
And so I think the message
that I would want to leave
961
00:47:30,806 --> 00:47:33,684
with our listeners is, you can do that.
962
00:47:33,684 --> 00:47:37,396
You can pick it up
whether it is the new King James
963
00:47:37,396 --> 00:47:41,441
or the King James or the Tyndale
or the Wycliffe, and say,
964
00:47:41,441 --> 00:47:45,487
This is God's Word, because God's Word
965
00:47:46,154 --> 00:47:48,824
is the inspired message
966
00:47:48,824 --> 00:47:54,037
that is in there,
and that you can change a word or two here
967
00:47:54,037 --> 00:47:57,040
and there, you can translate it
differently.
968
00:47:57,165 --> 00:47:59,042
It's still God's word.
969
00:47:59,042 --> 00:47:59,084
It's still God's word.
970
00:47:59,084 --> 00:48:00,335
Yeah, you can corrupt it.
971
00:48:00,335 --> 00:48:04,214
I think some of the translations do
corrupt it, but as long as you are being
972
00:48:04,506 --> 00:48:08,927
relatively faithful to the manuscripts,
it is God's Word.
973
00:48:09,219 --> 00:48:13,140
It is a message that is as was prophesied.
974
00:48:13,140 --> 00:48:14,308
It's a short word.
975
00:48:14,308 --> 00:48:18,478
You know, his his his message to us
didn't depend on all these words.
976
00:48:18,478 --> 00:48:19,229
We have them.
977
00:48:19,229 --> 00:48:21,565
We have things that often
we can't understand.
978
00:48:21,565 --> 00:48:24,693
Like like Romans, you know,
they they're, you know, people going in
979
00:48:24,693 --> 00:48:28,071
different directions, but,
you know, God's word is there.
980
00:48:28,363 --> 00:48:30,908
And it's really
a relatively simple message.
981
00:48:30,908 --> 00:48:32,242
You know,
I think actually most Christians,
982
00:48:32,242 --> 00:48:35,287
you know, get that, that, you know,
we don't have to understand all of that.
983
00:48:35,287 --> 00:48:36,872
And it doesn't depend on all these verses.
984
00:48:36,872 --> 00:48:39,166
It really does come down to a few things.
985
00:48:39,166 --> 00:48:42,544
So yeah,
this should not weaken someone's faith
986
00:48:42,544 --> 00:48:45,255
unless they've been told something
that's false.
987
00:48:45,255 --> 00:48:48,216
I mean, always tell your people the truth.
988
00:48:48,216 --> 00:48:51,094
And you know, we can be confident
when I pick it up and read it.
989
00:48:51,094 --> 00:48:55,891
I have every bit of feeling
I am reading the Word of God,
990
00:48:56,308 --> 00:48:59,061
even though I know
I'm reading a human translation.
991
00:48:59,061 --> 00:49:00,187
And yes, a word or two.
992
00:49:00,187 --> 00:49:03,690
Maybe wrong,
but the message is not going to be wrong.
993
00:49:05,317 --> 00:49:06,902
That's that's powerful.
994
00:49:06,902 --> 00:49:07,235
Yeah.
995
00:49:07,235 --> 00:49:11,448
And I hope people after listening to
this can can come away
996
00:49:11,448 --> 00:49:15,035
with a lot of new information
and not like you're saying don't be afraid
997
00:49:15,035 --> 00:49:18,246
to, to look at the truth of these things
because
998
00:49:18,997 --> 00:49:20,958
I'm sure they're going to run into it.
You know, like I did.
999
00:49:20,958 --> 00:49:21,625
You know, I went
Speaker:
00:49:21,625 --> 00:49:24,628
I was in my library and,
oh, here's a book about Bible manuscripts.
Speaker:
00:49:24,628 --> 00:49:25,921
And it was by Bart Ehrman.
Speaker:
00:49:25,921 --> 00:49:28,090
And he's here saying,
oh, you shouldn't believe in Christianity,
Speaker:
00:49:28,090 --> 00:49:31,134
because these variations and fortunately,
I didn't go down that street.
Speaker:
00:49:31,259 --> 00:49:34,054
But, you know, maybe somebody else will,
you know, and that's unfortunate.
Speaker:
00:49:34,054 --> 00:49:37,599
And hopefully we can give them some tools
Speaker:
00:49:37,599 --> 00:49:40,978
that they can still trust and, you know,
have faith in what God has preserved.
Speaker:
00:49:41,144 --> 00:49:44,314
and if any of this has bothered them
now, here's where they can do
Speaker:
00:49:44,815 --> 00:49:46,984
a lot of digging,
that there are a lot of books
Speaker:
00:49:46,984 --> 00:49:51,029
written out there by Bible believing
Christians who acknowledge
Speaker:
00:49:51,029 --> 00:49:55,492
that there's these manuscripts who don't,
who don't lie, who none of this has upset
Speaker:
00:49:55,492 --> 00:49:58,829
them, you know, I mean, you can go and dig
this out for you, for yourself.
Speaker:
00:49:59,037 --> 00:50:01,957
Very few people have walked away from God
because of that.
Speaker:
00:50:01,957 --> 00:50:05,794
Now, even that person who says
that's the reason I really wonder.
Speaker:
00:50:06,086 --> 00:50:10,340
My own experience is usually been
the hypocritical conduct of Christians.
Speaker:
00:50:10,924 --> 00:50:14,553
It's caused people,
if they're going to turn away, it's yeah,
Speaker:
00:50:14,553 --> 00:50:19,016
that's it more than oh, it's because,
you know, there's various manuscripts.
Speaker:
00:50:19,224 --> 00:50:21,643
I'd say very few
have been stumbled over that.
Speaker:
00:50:21,643 --> 00:50:24,938
A whole lot of people have been stumbled
by Christians
Speaker:
00:50:25,272 --> 00:50:27,774
who don't walk in the teachings of Christ.
Speaker:
00:50:27,774 --> 00:50:30,777
So I think that's what we really need
to focus on.
Speaker:
00:50:31,319 --> 00:50:34,322
That's
that's a powerful one to, to leave with is
Speaker:
00:50:34,489 --> 00:50:37,492
we can get fixated on manuscripts
and this little variation here and there,
Speaker:
00:50:37,784 --> 00:50:41,580
but you keep bringing it back
to, what's the message that this text,
Speaker:
00:50:41,788 --> 00:50:43,457
the the Bible is telling us?
Speaker:
00:50:43,457 --> 00:50:44,916
And then how do we live that out?
Speaker:
00:50:44,916 --> 00:50:46,710
And how do we be gracious and humble
Speaker:
00:50:46,710 --> 00:50:49,796
and love our neighbors
and all of these other things, too?
Speaker:
00:50:49,796 --> 00:50:53,508
That's so easy to forget when we want
to, insist on our way, I guess.
Speaker:
00:50:54,301 --> 00:50:57,554
Yeah, that's that's a powerful
piece to leave us with. And,
Speaker:
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:00,265
I just want to say thanks for coming on
Speaker:
00:51:00,265 --> 00:51:03,060
and being willing to tackle this topic
because it's controversial.
Speaker:
00:51:03,060 --> 00:51:05,312
So yeah. Okay.
Speaker:
00:51:05,312 --> 00:51:05,645
Thank you.
Speaker:
00:51:05,645 --> 00:51:06,104
David.