Well, hello everybody and welcome to another amazing episode of the Unstoppable Leadership Spotlight podcast.

I am your host, Jacqueline Strominger.

And on this podcast we hear from amazing leaders and their game changing insights.

Helping creep people create and be amazing leaders helps everybody else become amazing humans and to be unstoppable in their pursuit, pursuit of their own greatness.

So today I like to welcome Marina Morgan.

She actually has an amazing background.

She's been in this country for three years.

She's moved here from Russia, which is first of all and her English is impeccable, so it's awesome.

But she is the founder of the Morgan Impact and Organizational Psychology agency based in Silicon Valley.

And she has collaborated with UC Berkeley and Ikana on global research examining the influence of mental health on entrepreneurial success.

She has 15 years of experience leading transformational initiatives across companies of all sizes.

She is a speaker both online and offline and she is doing amazing work also in the nonprofit world.

So Marina, welcome to Unstoppable Leadership Spotlight.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for having me today.

It's really, you know, I wait, I waited our conversation and I'm happy to be here and hello everyone.

Yeah, so Marina.

Okay, so there's lots of different questions I would love to ask you, but one of the things that like in your bio, which I didn't necessarily read, but I wanted just to share, you spent years as a leader in Russia and you're obviously a female.

And so I'd love to hear a little bit about your story in your rise to leadership and in another country, one that also maybe doesn't have that pretty picture of women in leadership.

Absolutely, absolutely.

So it is really great question because Russian culture, Russian cultural leadership for the women is pretty unusual because after the World War II, Soviet Soviet Union lost more than 20 million people.

And of course it was, you know, male part of the society and it was young strong men and the period of recovering of the country after this awful war worth on the women's shoulders.

And it was pretty normal at that period and even before if women making all types, types of job that you can imagine, I, I mean hard work, working in manufacturing everywhere, just because you don't have another hand to hand to do it.

And that's one from this side, I think it's for a longer time it's more normal to have some women in leaders position and honestly the numbers of how many women we see in the board members, among the board members, they're really good.

From another hand, Russia is their patriarchal country and As I feel it probably it was my experience, you know, I, I, I think I had a brilliant career in Russia.

I didn't have any, you know, special network or something like that.

And after university for less than 10 years I developed a career and I was in a top position in my trajectory in my, in my industry.

I was head of training and development department in the biggest technological companies in the country.

And it's pretty great result I suppose for the person, for some self made person like I was.

But from another hand, I think women in Russia living in a pretty strange situation when look like perfect is your responsibility.

Taking care about the kids is your responsibility.

And you know, regulation of relationship and financial relationship after divorce is pretty awful in Russia.

And the adapt for their child supports is billions of rebels and millions of dollars.

I suppose to earn money and provide your family financially is your responsibility.

And to be very feminine at the same time is also your responsibility.

And on the one hand, yes, I can say that I faced with something, something bad during my career, I think and there are a lot of different research that demonstrate us that men to the same position have more money and it is easier for them, for them to develop career.

Also I think Russian economy in this period, it's a little bit more gentle for the period than when you just born the baby because you can have a vacation for two years after this moment, not with the full salary, but you have a chance to save your work, to save your workplace.

And we even have such an official position like pregnancy vacancy.

I mean then you're replacing somebody during, during this period and it's, it's, it's better and it's easier.

But honestly I can say that this is only about the freedom.

Women in my country are responsible for everything.

And, and, and this is pretty normal.

So.

And the thing that I really love in the united, in the United States is incredibly supportive community right among the women institution that help women that develop this sisterhood.

And I really, I really love because in Russia we have some, you know, cultural agenda about that.

You should be competitive, you should be competitive for the men because there are not so many men after all this wars, revolution, E.T.

you are not successful if you're not married, if you don't have a husband or family, even if you had a brilliant career or everything that you want.

So why are you not married?

And also after 27 years you officially get in the status in medical system that you are, how can I say old mother.

I, I don't, I don't know how to translate it.

Directly old maid.

It's like, it's like, like the.

Yeah, you're set out to pasture.

It's been that officially you are becoming too old to be a mother after 27 years.

So.

Oh my God.

I would have been.

I would have.

I would not have made it.

I didn't have my first child until I was 36.

I still don't have my first child.

So I hope it will.

It will happen with me sometimes.

But.

But honestly I think that the fact that I made this career and I really did a great project and I have a lot of trust from the business leaders, from the business owners.

Their truth is that it's possible and the culture and economical situation make the society more loyal to the women leadership because it was necessity for that after several awful periods of the country economy.

So.

So really in Russia, like, you know, women in leadership is.

Is.

It's somewhat more normal then.

So I have a.

So, so I have a question.

Did as you're.

As you were rising up in the.

In the industry in Russia, were there.

Was there a more like male female mentor or who was like.

And.

Or did you have a mentor or was it all your internal drive?

It's a really great question as well.

As I developed my career, we're speaking in this track about the cooperative career in human resource department, mostly representative by the, you know, female part of professional community.

And that's why I really had an amazing leaders who shaped me professionally as well.

And they gave me these positions because they believe in me, they trusted me.

And it's really, it's really amazing in my entrepreneurial part of the life.

And I had the periods.

I started my career as entrepreneur when I was in university and also I had a period when I quit company, open something by my own or have at the same time my job and also my different side businesses.

Just because this is my passion and drive and because I really love it and most of my clients and partners were men.

It's more because I worked in a technological industry and it's not well balanced.

I mean from.

From the gender perspective.

So.

And it also was amazing people who are very supportive, they're interested, they're involved.

The only one thing I didn't have really, how can I say it correctly, really bad situation about it.

But if you're speaking about self government system, women rights are not protected.

I mean if for example, somebody will have some sympathies to you or some interest to you, you're absolutely not protected because there is no institution and regulation that can.

That can support you and protect you.

And if something really happened and I was in a human department and in it, for example, it wasn't in my company.

Okay, let's just.

It's, it's an example from nowhere.

Yeah.

If some, somebody come to us and share the story that like I don't know, C level manager that's really very powerful, powerful in industry and powerful in the company, have some interest to you and they ask protection and supports.

Typical solution was to fire with, with person, pay some monies and not, you know, announce this story publicly.

And I don't know what's going on there right now.

Yeah, just under, hide it under, under the carpet and.

But there is no law in Russia that protects women from home violence.

There is no law.

And if something happened with you with your husband or with somebody from your family, there is no law that will protect you.

And the same situation can.

Is in cooperative sector.

I mean there is no official systems of regulation where it can be protected, protected.

And this is still a bad thing in my opinion.

I didn't, I didn't face with awful situation in my, during my career.

But you can be relaxed in professional connection with men because at the end of the story somebody can come to you and say so I gave you this opportunity and this is the bill.

So and here, I mean it's, it's possible, it's culturally possible.

And here in US I feel much more relaxed and I feel absolutely free.

In collaboration with different partners, I can, I working with the mentors, I can text to any person and say it's very important for me to have your opinion.

Can you explain me something without this fear that at the end of the story somebody will say okay, there's going to be like, okay, let's go, let's go to some coffee.

Okay.

You don't want.

So I also don't want to have any communication with you after that.

So.

Yeah, I know that's so.

So I, I'm just kind of curious.

So you've been here for three years.

What was your, what was the drive for you to come to the United States?

It's an amazing question.

So honestly, I'm pretty ambitious person.

I would never know that.

No, just kidding.

And during all my life I created some big goals for myself and it was my challenge, it was my drive, it was something that motivated me.

Now when I dive a little bit deeper into nature physiology of entrepreneurship, I already understand that this is like my dopamine system is working because all entrepreneurs are more sensitive to this dopamine rewarding because the dopamine system organized a little bit in another way.

So and I'm typically create some new big goal for for myself.

And when I was in a top position in technological company where I mentioned it was something like 300000 employers and my responsibility was to develop some educational program that will bring money to the, to our organization.

So is everything fine?

Because it's something this connection cool.

So sorry.

And I found that I don't know what will be my next ambitious goal and I don't have it.

I've already know how it works.

I know the markets.

I was in a pretty good situation when I can connect with any company and say I'm interested in working with you.

Are you open to conversation?

And at the end of the story I will have a job there.

For example, my last job I got in this way I texted in Facebook for my leader and say I see that you're doing very interesting things.

This is what I came again.

Let's just meet and chat.

And they created job position specifically for me and it was great.

And I think what that most of the company were pretty available pretty available for me.

And at that period it was before war, before the political situation that we have right now, the market of technological professionals were pretty open and we tried to compete with in the companies where I worked with Google, Netflix, with all these fun companies because they hired our people from all the countries includes Russia of course.

And Russia.

Russian.

Russian IT professionals are really brilliant.

We have a strong school of physics and mathematics.

So they're really in a good position here.

And that's why I knew a lot about Silicon Valley about we also have some, we always have some kind of connection practices, some collaborating projects.

And one day I came here to Silicon Valley.

It was my second time in the United States and the first time in Silicon Valley for some job purpose to meet with some partners here.

Because I had an ambitious idea to develop our human resource brand in our market through their improvements in Silicon Valley.

Because at that year our company created amazing framework like to manage projects inside the big companies to save this startup spirit.

And we got the Gartner Award at that period.

And it was really great moment to collaborate globally and to you know, expand our human resource brand and attract interesting people from all over the world, not inside the country.

So I came here, we met these different people and I really felt that I belong to this place or something like that.

I mean I just understood that it will be my next step, it will be my next challenging goal.

I Don't have any plan yet.

And I felt that I need to come here and to try to do something by my own and see what I can.

We'll see how it will go on.

I was impressed by a lot of different things, mostly about the people here in United States and in Silicon Valley.

So it was in May at my flight back home.

It was New York, Moscow, direct flight at the period.

Now of course they not exist.

I've already decided that I'm quit at that period.

I was in relationship that I quit from the relationship as well and move to United States as fast as possible.

So I had a touristic visa that was open to the December, it was May, December.

And I've already felt that something is going on.

When you're working close to the global technologies of the country technological industry.

And also I had a long experience working with digital media companies in the country.

You're really already able to read between the lines and to connect some dots.

I didn't expect that it will be those that happened later, but I felt that relationship between our countries becoming more and more tough and that probably I will have no now a chance to open a new visa for myself.

And I understood that I need to come inside the country before it will be possible for this option.

And I didn't know anything about the United States at the period.

I didn't have a plan for immigration.

And it really wasn't.

Wasn't my goal.

As I told you, I always create some projects and goals and it wasn't my dream just to move for nothing just because I want to live here, for example.

So I came back home, announced to my boyfriend that we are.

That this is the end.

Yeah, absolutely.

We'll live together more than three years.

And the reason why, if to be honest a little bit, I wasn't, you know, happy in this relationship because he proposed me two years ago and didn't do nothing after that.

And what was the point?

And I tried to speak with him several times about it and it was some very strange conversation.

And I think what.

What's going on?

I didn't ask him about it.

I. I was married before.

I really don't.

They're interested in official relationship.

It was his idea.

And then something strange happened.

So I told him that I'm planning to move to United States and that we quit or probably you can come with me if you want and try something here.

And he decided that that's why because he didn't propose me the next day he came with a, you know, ring from The Tiffany coin and told what's the, what's that thing?

And this is, you know, this is the story for the, for the grandkids.

Then your grandma, you know, had Tiffany ran but she told no, this is, this is too late.

That was how it was, right?

This is how it happened.

I mean everything was good, but it was very polite and I really, I really respect my ex boyfriend.

We had a brilliant relationship.

Probably just you know how it's happened in the, in, in the couple.

The dynamic of development can be different and there is a period that somebody moved in faster and the next one should moving in his, you know, his rhythm, her rhythm.

But you know, you should meet somewhere there is a period in another you.

Sometimes you go like this.

It's this, this, this, this.

Yeah, yes, something like that.

But I think that between us having the situation when I've just started moving very fast and he didn't.

And that was the main reason.

I suppose so then I now announced at my job that I'm quit.

That was also pretty surprising because as I told you, I was in a good position.

I took several side projects at that period then by then bought one way tickets.

Just came here.

I lived in New York for the one month just.

I love New York City and I think this is very amazing place there you can, how can I say it?

Make your identification with your nationality not so strong.

Because in New York City you're living among the people from all over the world.

Every one of them have cultural identity, cultural values, cultural tradition.

And when you see that all this thing is pretty important, but yours cultural identity is not the most important in the world.

It's just one of the type of the cultural identity, one of the type of the language, one of the type of the mindset.

And that's how I regularly felt in New York that I can, you know, take over my Russian coat and just to be person of the world.

And I spent a month in New York City just, just enjoy, just walking, visit an amazing jazz bar, restaurants, whatever it is.

And then I moved to the, to the California because this, that was my goal and that's how I started my story here.

It is fascinating.

You know, Marina, it's.

It's amazing when somebody.

When you know like I'm hearing your story and I'm hearing the, you know, your own personal drive and so.

But also just from the experience of having, you know, whether you realize it or not, like having really great leaders to, to help you in the.

Even in the early stages of your career when you're first out of university, like the people that can actually influence you almost like by the drip like dripping on you, right?

Like they, you know, and when you can get into something that's good and you have good people and they see, see not everybody probably at the company was they didn't see the same thing they in you that they saw in everybody else.

They saw you and said oh, she's got this, you know, and it's, and has drive.

So it's really amazing.

This is why I do this because not everybody, you know, maybe there was somebody else at the company that you were at, you were in and maybe a leader could have seen something in them and said, you know what, you're awesome, but this isn't the right place for you.

We think you could excel over here.

And you, I mean obviously you were able to excel and I just love that people were able to lean into you to get you to bring out your greatness so that you can then now lean into others to bring out their greatness.

And I just think that's, that's what, that, that's what helps make us better.

You are 100% right and I want to say you then living in Silicon Valley for me means that I never ever will be again the smartest person in the room.

And that's what I love because, because I, I love this phrase.

If you are the smartest person in the room, that's mean that you are not in the right room.

And this is some kind of.

I think this is one of my value because I think that people around us is our responsibility.

And if you can find some inspiring leaders, some great co workers, friends, some people that are on the same page with you who share your values, this is your responsibility to find your people and to be in those place there you can feel the support, inspiration.

And you know, I thought about you have some question typically in your podcast what's make you the person that you are.

I thought about it and I remember there were interesting story that I would love to share with you and with with our listeners.

You absolutely right.

Honestly I had a pretty challenging childhood.

Don't want to dive deeper into it but I had my mom passed away where when she was very young.

She was 33 years and I was 14 years old and my grandpa and grandma took care about me and of course they were absolutely you imagine how they felt after thing that was happened.

But whatever it is, it is in the past.

But during all my life I always have some people who really believe in me and supported me.

But also I had one very interesting situation in school that influenced for me as well.

So it was on the maths class and it was some important tests like you know, quarter test or something like that.

And we need to solve only one.

Oh my God.

Equation.

Equation.

Right.

Absolutely right.

And our class was separated for two groups and one half of the class got the equation number one and another one equation number two.

And it was very long for, you know, for several lines.

And you can only have a chance two grades.

At the end you are successful or you're not successful with this example because this equation engaged all the formulas that we studied during all during this quarter.

So.

And it was very difficult.

So it was for.

For whole lesson.

And as always, after, after the lesson, after the test you started to chatting with each other.

What result did you get?

What result did you get?

Etc.

So my group, it was equation number one.

All of them got their results minus one.

And I got the results zero points and three numbers after the.

After the point.

And I was totally sure that I was.

I made an awful mistake.

And, and my parents, they were very serious about my, my grandparents, they were serious about my.

About my education.

You only a grade will be.

Will be okay.

All in other grades it's is bad.

So it's typical for Russian mindset.

So I was.

For a lot of us, yeah, it's.

So I was very upset because I was sure that I'm.

I. I will have a awful grade in it.

And I, I probably didn't sleep well for this couple days because on Monday we have this test and on Wednesday it will be the next math class where it will announce.

So our.

Our teacher come into the class and say blah blah, blah.

There is as always, you know, last name and the grade what you have.

And then she, and she starts with a group number two.

And then she came to our group and say.

So we had very interesting situation.

All of you solved this equation incorrectly and only one person who solved it correctly is Marina.

What's happened guys?

And you know, I really remembered this situation for all of my life because I was sure that I did a mistake.

And also all people around me had another answer.

And at that moment I remember that it can be situation in your life that everyone around you will be absolutely sure in their answer, in their vision, in their understanding of reality.

And probably you will have absolutely opposite opinion.

But there is a chance that you can be right and this is your responsibility.

And I think that leadership is above responsibility for all the solution that you provide.

Because honestly, you know Honestly, all of us making mistakes during our career, during our entrepreneurial journey in our life, we're choosing not right.

Suppose we make a lot of different.

We started awful relationship.

We sometimes spending a lot of money for the business that at the end of the story are unsuccessful.

We are losing our clients, all of us making a lot of different mistakes.

But the thing that really specific for the leaders is that you are able to make this decision and to keep the responsibility even if it was global mistake.

And this is the main thing about the leadership, in my opinion.

So this situation was really important for me.

And I had several times in my life that everyone told me, what are you doing?

For example, when I decided to move to United States, I didn't even discuss it with a lot of people.

And for example, even some of my family members knew about it when I already were here in New York City.

Just because I knew that it will be very stressful for them and it will be a long conversation.

What are you doing?

You are too old for that.

Why did you broke with this amazing guy?

You don't have a chances to create a new family because you're already 35 and all this stuff.

But it's very important to have an inspiring, supportive community around you.

And as I told, I think that this is your responsibility as well.

And from another hand, if you're a leader, you will definitely have some situation in your life when you don't have enough information, you probably don't have enough support.

You need to make a decision and you will keep the responsibility for this decision to the end.

And this is okay.

You know, Marina, I love that story.

I absolutely.

It.

There's so many parts about that.

You know, it's.

First of all, it's.

It's that.

That pressure that we put on ourselves, right?

That about right or wrong, right.

Like did we do the right thing?

Do we not do the right thing?

Am I.

Did I get the answer right?

And we like lament and we think about it, right?

Because it matters to us.

If it didn't matter, we wouldn't.

It wouldn't care.

Right?

So.

But also really knowing that, you know, what you said is so pointed and true is that knowing that there could be a different answer and knowing that, you know, knowing that in actuality, you know, so maybe they got the number wrong, maybe they did the steps right.

But there was some mistake.

And it's knowing that like.

And to own that and to know that and know that there are always ways unless you've killed somebody in like medicine, obviously.

But but most of the time there is a way to fix something or to go back and say, ooh, I can change this.

I see the mistake too, and to own it.

But also if you are, if you have gotten it right, it's also believing in yourself.

Like, you know, the, the, the.

How.

Could different would it be is if you walked away from that and thought to yourself, ha, ha ha, they're all wrong.

I know I'm right.

Honestly, I, I typically, I'm not thinking about it because, I mean, I think that I'm.

This is specific, some specifics of my personality or probably, you know, my childhood history, his history.

When I'm making the next step and I'm changing the reality.

Like, I mean, decided to open your business, move to another country, join to another company, start new relationship.

I'm thinking about it like, about, like about a new chapter of my life.

And I, and the previous chapters, they are pretty close to me.

I mean, I'm not missing.

I don't feel some kind of nostalgia.

I'm thinking about it with gratitude.

I have a lot of warm emotions from the past.

But this is something like your childhood dress.

That's pretty cute.

But it's absolutely unrelevant for, for your reality.

And yeah, yeah, I think you're, you're absolutely right.

This is your experience.

Right.

And that experience, it's, it's one of those things that I think is quintessential for leadership to let everybody know that we have, we have it within ourselves to choose our path.

It's a choice that we can make.

And we can decide to get up in the morning and decide how do we want to be, what is the path we want to go, what's the right thing for me?

And yes, there are always other people around you that may have to come or come into that, you know, in your decision.

But at the end of the day, you know, as you're moving up in your career, it's not to forget about those people, but it's to help lead those people and help if you've got a vision for yourself, who are the people that you can bring with you?

Who are the people that are going to support you?

Who are the people that, as you shared, you don't tell them until you're already on the journey because you know who the naysayers are, they're going to try to talk you out.

And they're, they're all these different groups of people in our lives, and we have to surround ourselves with the people who, you know, are going to Help rise us up.

Right.

That, that tie, that rising tide is going to lift all the boats.

But we have to decide, we have to decide which, which, which wave do we want to catch?

You're 100% right.

And again, this is my vision.

Probably other people can think in another way.

Of course.

I have, for example, I have a best friend.

We are the friends since we were childs and it's more than 20 years of our friendship.

Yeah.

And this is amazing.

She's living in Europe right now.

And you know, it's very important part of the life as well.

But I think that people who close to us, they, they need support us.

Right.

And it's.

And if you.

Some.

Some of your friends or relatives.

Okay, we're not speaking when you're making some really silly things like decided to invest all the family money for some crazy project.

We're not speaking about this.

It's more about the change the choices that you, that you, you're.

That you are making during your life.

I think that close people who are close to you, they really need to support you.

And again, this is, this is that you can regulate.

For example, I have a close relationship with my aunt.

They have some, you know, more classic mindset that's mean that all the people who love you will say all the critical things that they're thinking about you.

Like, I don't like your higher cut.

What did you wear?

And it took me, it took me several years to recreate our way of communication and say I. I'm waiting for support of everything that I'm doing.

And if I really need your opinion about my higher card or about of any of my choices, I will come and ask you, please, what do you think about my hierarchy or something like that?

Because it's very, very important.

It's pretty difficult right now to develop a career to run in business because we have so many things outside that influence dramatically for everything that's going on in our life.

AI Covid political situation is absolutely unpredictable.

But the thing that you really can take under control is your condition.

And thanks neurophysiology and everything that I now it is also some pivotal moment for me that I really understood that healthy brain and healthy nervous system see healthy and variable solutions.

And if you are in a bad condition, if you have too much cortisol, you were under the stress for a long time.

You see the dangerous reality.

But reality is absolutely the same.

Reality provides you billions of different options and scenarios.

And the thing that you're focusing on really depends of your internal condition.

I mean even neurophysiological condition, we're done speaking about some, you know, more spirit things here.

It's very simple.

If your brain is healthy, you will make a healthy decision.

It's very easy.

And you will, you will produce some healthy products, you will create some healthy organizational culture and environment in your business.

You will be able to develop healthy relationship.

The only one thing that you need is a healthy brain.

So it was also pivotal for me.

So what I'm trying to say, we have a lot of different things around us, but this is something that we can manage.

Everything that very close to us, our condition and people who are very, very close and we can regulate it.

And if you had a challenging period, period, you want to change something, you are pivoting your career.

Please take a little bit far away from the people who are criticizing you or not support you.

And if you can do it like for example, this is your, I don't know, family, parents, you can say I need support right now.

If you're unable to provide me the support, let's take a pause in our communication and I will come back to you later.

Then I will have more resources to keep conversations like this.

And in my opinion it's pretty normal.

But you know, it's, it's everyone's choice, you know, summary.

I think that is, that is absolutely one of them.

That's, it's a quintessential game changing insight which is basically, you know, no matter where you are in your leadership journey, it's to find the people that support you and your mission and that are aligned with you in the, in values.

And if the people that, if there are some people that don't do exactly what you said, this is my vision.

I need to put this on pause.

Unless we can, unless you know, the relationship is not serving me in the best way right now.

I love you but.

Or you're a great friend but because you need to surround yourself with the people that, that.

Not that lift you up and make you feel good.

Marina, I could talk to you for hours about this.

You are so smart and, and I love what you're doing when leadership and your, and everything that you have accomplished is really amazing.

What is the best way for people to reach out to you and connect with you?

Because I think everybody needs to.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

So I will be happy to connect with you in my LinkedIn.

LinkedIn.

Marina Morgan, San Francisco and also I have a website, themorganimpact.com Please find this website.

I have an option of free half an hour strategic clarity session where you can come and just share where are you right now, where you want to be.

And we can develop several ideas how you can achieve your goal.

I'm very open to it.

So let's stay in touch.

Of course.

Please, please follow this amazing podcast because you can meet not only me here, but also other amazing guests.

Yes, you can.

So listeners, please follow, connect with Marina, go to her website, get that free strategy session, connect with her on LinkedIn, and please do me the favor of hitting subscribe and also sharing this podcast with your friends and colleagues.

My name is Jacqueline Schuminger.

I am the host of the Unstoppable Leadership Spotlight podcast.

And I appreciate you listeners for listening and tuning in and for Marina for being an amazing guest.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.