1 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:07,870 Well, hello, my name is Matt Edmundson and you are listening 2 00:00:07,870 --> 00:00:10,180 to the eCommerce Podcast. 3 00:00:10,540 --> 00:00:14,380 I have been an eCommerce since 2002. 4 00:00:14,500 --> 00:00:17,860 Yes, I have ladies and gentlemen, a very long time, and these days 5 00:00:17,860 --> 00:00:21,460 I partner with eCommerce brands to help them grow, scale and exit. 6 00:00:21,820 --> 00:00:25,299 And if you'd like to know more about how that works and if we could 7 00:00:25,299 --> 00:00:29,020 actually work together, head over to our website, eCommerce Podcast net. 8 00:00:29,049 --> 00:00:29,380 It's. 9 00:00:29,420 --> 00:00:33,620 All there, but that's enough about me. 10 00:00:33,620 --> 00:00:37,125 Today I am joined with a delightful. 11 00:00:37,510 --> 00:00:40,090 Guest, Millie Flemington-Claire from Human Beauty. 12 00:00:40,510 --> 00:00:44,050 Uh, Millie, it's fair to say that I've been looking forward to this conversation 13 00:00:44,050 --> 00:00:47,020 since, um, well, since we spoke. 14 00:00:47,020 --> 00:00:48,610 I think it was in February. 15 00:00:48,790 --> 00:00:51,160 Uh, we, we sort of connected, didn't we? 16 00:00:51,160 --> 00:00:53,320 And we, this is one of our found episodes. 17 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:59,350 So you run, uh, your own e-commerce business, but it's fair to say. 18 00:00:59,995 --> 00:01:05,155 You've got a bit of a story, which is, um, well, I'm gonna say it's 19 00:01:05,155 --> 00:01:06,565 nothing short of inspiring really. 20 00:01:06,865 --> 00:01:10,255 So give us, uh, a little bit of background about you. 21 00:01:11,980 --> 00:01:13,090 Um, yeah. 22 00:01:13,090 --> 00:01:18,670 So I was born with a rare, um, condition called Cystinosis. 23 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:23,320 Um, it's a, like a condition that only affects around 2000 people in the world. 24 00:01:23,700 --> 00:01:29,910 Um, and it mainly affects my, um, kidneys, but I was also tube fed until 25 00:01:29,910 --> 00:01:33,090 I was 18 and I'm only four foot six. 26 00:01:33,180 --> 00:01:38,610 Um, so I grew up, um, kind of desperate to fit in, in and out of 27 00:01:38,610 --> 00:01:42,955 hospital and it was very apparent I was different to ev like my peers. 28 00:01:43,535 --> 00:01:43,755 Um. 29 00:01:44,935 --> 00:01:49,554 And I found who I am and my self-expression through makeup. 30 00:01:49,795 --> 00:01:57,354 Um, but the beauty industry, um, isn't, and wasn't very inclusive or accessible. 31 00:01:57,595 --> 00:02:01,765 Um, and that was kind of what made me really wanna start my own journey 32 00:02:01,765 --> 00:02:06,654 in o owning my own, um, beauty brand and kind of making sure I rep be the 33 00:02:06,654 --> 00:02:08,485 representation that I wish I'd seen. 34 00:02:08,870 --> 00:02:14,119 When I was a teenager, um, because yeah, I didn't, I didn't feel represented 35 00:02:14,179 --> 00:02:18,499 and I think it would've helped me discover who I am sooner if I had 36 00:02:18,690 --> 00:02:18,750 Yeah. 37 00:02:18,859 --> 00:02:19,730 seen more of me. 38 00:02:20,274 --> 00:02:20,635 Yeah. 39 00:02:20,755 --> 00:02:21,535 Well, fantastic. 40 00:02:21,535 --> 00:02:24,505 Well, we're gonna dig into all of that, which I'm, I mean, we had a 41 00:02:24,505 --> 00:02:26,904 brief, like I said, we had quite a bit of a chat, didn't we, in February. 42 00:02:26,904 --> 00:02:27,954 And I, I just loved it. 43 00:02:27,954 --> 00:02:32,994 And, and since you and I spoke, um, uh, those listening in the UK that watch a 44 00:02:32,994 --> 00:02:37,399 certain TV show called Dragon's Den may, uh, either remember your, you go, oh, 45 00:02:37,399 --> 00:02:39,325 that, that, that name sounds familiar. 46 00:02:39,684 --> 00:02:43,345 Uh, dragons Den is the equivalent of Shark Tank, uh, in the US 47 00:02:43,404 --> 00:02:46,045 and you were on there recently. 48 00:02:46,539 --> 00:02:51,549 I was, yeah, aired on the 27th of February, so it's nearly been a month. 49 00:02:51,640 --> 00:02:51,999 Month 50 00:02:52,149 --> 00:02:53,799 Nearly been a month since you were on there. 51 00:02:53,859 --> 00:02:59,319 And in fact, uh, it's series 22, episode eight, called into the BBCI player. 52 00:02:59,829 --> 00:03:03,399 Uh, and it's the last episode in this current season. 53 00:03:03,879 --> 00:03:10,090 Um, and so somehow, I mean, I, I know there are, there, there are, 54 00:03:10,119 --> 00:03:12,939 there are some nuances to this journey, but you, you somehow got 55 00:03:12,939 --> 00:03:15,099 onto Dragons Den, you pitched to. 56 00:03:15,684 --> 00:03:18,354 Um, the, uh, dragons on there. 57 00:03:18,714 --> 00:03:22,194 And, uh, to quote Deborah, you came away with the best deal that has ever been 58 00:03:22,194 --> 00:03:25,944 given on Dragons Den because you retained all of your business, but got the help 59 00:03:25,944 --> 00:03:28,374 of three dragons, um, at least on air. 60 00:03:28,374 --> 00:03:28,884 You did. 61 00:03:28,944 --> 00:03:31,014 Uh, the reality of that may or may not be different. 62 00:03:31,014 --> 00:03:31,974 I don't want to presume. 63 00:03:32,544 --> 00:03:35,274 Um, so let's, if you don't mind, let's start there. 64 00:03:35,274 --> 00:03:36,234 How was that? 65 00:03:37,194 --> 00:03:39,319 How was pitching or, or being on 66 00:03:39,384 --> 00:03:42,024 Yeah, because I, I remember watching the show, right? 67 00:03:42,084 --> 00:03:46,704 And there's this clip on the show where you are going up in the, in the lift 68 00:03:46,704 --> 00:03:50,034 or the elevator for American cousins, uh, and you're going up and there's 69 00:03:50,034 --> 00:03:51,804 that big deep breath that you take in. 70 00:03:51,804 --> 00:03:56,364 And I'm like, oh, you, you looked like you were slightly nervous, and 71 00:03:56,364 --> 00:03:59,574 this was kind of your way of just calming yourself for a little bit. 72 00:04:00,084 --> 00:04:00,564 Yeah. 73 00:04:00,624 --> 00:04:01,104 Yeah. 74 00:04:01,164 --> 00:04:04,794 Um, well, the spoiler alert, the lift is a fake, is fake. 75 00:04:04,914 --> 00:04:05,454 Oh, is it? 76 00:04:05,724 --> 00:04:06,234 yeah. 77 00:04:06,234 --> 00:04:11,664 And they, and, and, uh, um, yeah, so I, I was really, really nervous. 78 00:04:11,664 --> 00:04:14,094 I mean, I've been watching the show since I was about seven. 79 00:04:14,319 --> 00:04:14,679 Mm. 80 00:04:14,994 --> 00:04:16,884 and it was always my dream to be on the show and. 81 00:04:17,494 --> 00:04:20,164 Pitching and public speaking is a nerve wracking thing. 82 00:04:20,314 --> 00:04:20,604 Yeah. 83 00:04:21,334 --> 00:04:26,044 um, it had been a whole day of preparation and I'd been in and out of that lift, 84 00:04:26,044 --> 00:04:28,474 to be honest about for, for 40 minutes. 85 00:04:28,864 --> 00:04:28,924 Um. 86 00:04:30,669 --> 00:04:32,590 Just do or film in all the different takes. 87 00:04:32,694 --> 00:04:33,174 Yeah. 88 00:04:33,234 --> 00:04:33,624 Yeah. 89 00:04:33,624 --> 00:04:35,784 And they definitely keep you in the lift for a bit. 90 00:04:35,784 --> 00:04:39,775 Just, you know, to build that, uh, that, that tension and the thing. 91 00:04:39,775 --> 00:04:43,015 But yeah, that was my like like game time. 92 00:04:43,015 --> 00:04:47,215 It's time, time to time to go and do my thing, um, and try to breathe. 93 00:04:47,244 --> 00:04:50,945 'cause yeah, I knew I was about to do a. A pitch for like a minute 94 00:04:50,945 --> 00:04:53,914 and a half, and when I pitch, I sometimes forget to breathe. 95 00:04:53,914 --> 00:04:57,965 And I just thought, speed talk and then I just suddenly mid centered to go. 96 00:04:59,614 --> 00:05:03,755 Um, so yeah, that it, it was, um, it's tv, isn't it? 97 00:05:03,955 --> 00:05:04,435 Yeah. 98 00:05:04,474 --> 00:05:07,650 um, I you don't, you don't think about these things when you watch 99 00:05:07,955 --> 00:05:10,864 it, uh, for years actually like that. 100 00:05:10,864 --> 00:05:13,744 It's a set ultimately and it is a TV show. 101 00:05:13,864 --> 00:05:17,075 Um, the pitch was, um. 102 00:05:18,219 --> 00:05:20,289 Exhilarating and terrifying. 103 00:05:20,349 --> 00:05:25,239 Um, I, I, the relief of that, it was over. 104 00:05:25,449 --> 00:05:29,109 I completely forgot, like at the end you have to like usually say, oh, 105 00:05:29,139 --> 00:05:32,139 dragons, you've got some samples under your seat, or, you know, whatever. 106 00:05:32,530 --> 00:05:36,579 And I kind of just did my pitch and was kind of like this, and they're like, oh, 107 00:05:36,579 --> 00:05:38,319 are you gonna tell us what's under our 108 00:05:39,129 --> 00:05:39,909 Ah, okay. 109 00:05:40,359 --> 00:05:40,929 Oh yeah. 110 00:05:40,929 --> 00:05:40,931 Oh yeah. 111 00:05:41,020 --> 00:05:43,090 You know, you've got some products under your seat. 112 00:05:43,509 --> 00:05:45,309 Um, and they made us do that. 113 00:05:46,164 --> 00:05:50,154 All for catwalk when my brand is, is a makeup brand. 114 00:05:50,154 --> 00:05:52,824 We, we don't, we not, we're not doing catwalks. 115 00:05:53,184 --> 00:05:55,944 Um, so yeah, it was, it was an experience. 116 00:05:55,974 --> 00:05:56,514 Um. 117 00:05:57,460 --> 00:05:58,479 To say the very least. 118 00:05:58,479 --> 00:06:03,039 And it was months, months of preparation that led to that moment. 119 00:06:03,129 --> 00:06:08,079 Um, uh, but I was really happy in the end with how, you know, my pitch went. 120 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:08,680 Yeah. 121 00:06:09,309 --> 00:06:12,400 I try not to, when I do pitches, I try not to like practice 122 00:06:12,429 --> 00:06:14,259 like word for word script it. 123 00:06:14,650 --> 00:06:18,489 Um, because if I mess up my brain doesn't work like that, I, 124 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:18,840 Right. 125 00:06:18,999 --> 00:06:20,289 be like, I can't continue. 126 00:06:20,770 --> 00:06:23,919 Uh, so it was different every time I practiced, but overall it went. 127 00:06:23,949 --> 00:06:24,939 It went really well. 128 00:06:24,999 --> 00:06:28,719 Um, and I was in there for about an hour and 20 minutes answering questions. 129 00:06:29,109 --> 00:06:29,739 Um, 130 00:06:29,950 --> 00:06:30,190 really? 131 00:06:30,190 --> 00:06:32,695 Because it's like three minutes on the show, isn't it? 132 00:06:32,979 --> 00:06:34,329 yeah, so I did my pitch. 133 00:06:34,329 --> 00:06:36,789 They asked a couple questions to my models. 134 00:06:36,789 --> 00:06:39,069 They left and then it was, yeah, about an hour. 135 00:06:39,219 --> 00:06:40,119 Uh, I was in there. 136 00:06:40,329 --> 00:06:43,809 So they cut an hour over an hour footage down to 13 minutes. 137 00:06:43,809 --> 00:06:44,649 I think I got in the 138 00:06:44,784 --> 00:06:45,204 Wow. 139 00:06:45,864 --> 00:06:46,224 Wow. 140 00:06:46,674 --> 00:06:51,564 And, uh, I mean, you said that you, it was your dream to go on there, and 141 00:06:51,564 --> 00:06:55,914 I'm, I'm, I'm curious as to, you've started, you started this e-commerce 142 00:06:55,914 --> 00:06:59,334 business, uh, human beauty, uh, which you mentioned a few years ago. 143 00:06:59,424 --> 00:07:00,174 Uh, two years ago. 144 00:07:00,264 --> 00:07:02,124 Uh, just over, just under two years, I think. 145 00:07:02,124 --> 00:07:02,394 Isn't it? 146 00:07:02,530 --> 00:07:08,289 Well, technically it was, um, it was 20. 147 00:07:09,340 --> 00:07:16,180 2022. Um, 'cause I, I basically, it was, uh, just after COVID, I, 148 00:07:16,180 --> 00:07:17,590 it'd been kind of in the works. 149 00:07:17,620 --> 00:07:23,080 Um, and then I, um, got the opportunity to appear on a kinda documentary series. 150 00:07:23,409 --> 00:07:27,880 Um, and they are, they have like about 10 million subscribers across the world. 151 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:31,090 So I was like, wow, I'm, I was just about to go traveling for a 152 00:07:31,090 --> 00:07:33,340 few months, so I got a website up. 153 00:07:34,034 --> 00:07:37,124 I didn't really have product, well, I didn't have product, physical product 154 00:07:37,124 --> 00:07:40,454 with me and I was just like, I'll just put it up, go traveling and in case 155 00:07:40,454 --> 00:07:45,524 people wanna pre-order, uh, you know, so that is technically when it started. 156 00:07:45,854 --> 00:07:50,534 Um, but like really properly in the last year and a half, uh, is 157 00:07:50,534 --> 00:07:53,114 when I've been actually doing it. 158 00:07:53,500 --> 00:07:54,669 Yeah, no fair place. 159 00:07:54,669 --> 00:07:59,965 So it is a fairly young business and so were you of the mind, um. 160 00:08:00,864 --> 00:08:03,024 This is an opportunity to get on Dragon's Dentist, the show 161 00:08:03,024 --> 00:08:04,104 I've always wanted to been on. 162 00:08:04,134 --> 00:08:09,264 Or were you of the mind of, well actually this actually could be quite useful. 163 00:08:09,504 --> 00:08:13,704 Um, whether or not I get the investment, I'm on BBC tv, there's PR that goes 164 00:08:13,704 --> 00:08:15,474 alongside that, et cetera, et cetera. 165 00:08:16,014 --> 00:08:19,434 Um, I'm, I'm kind of curious, what was your, what, what was 166 00:08:19,434 --> 00:08:20,844 your reasoning to go on the show? 167 00:08:21,414 --> 00:08:28,194 Uh, yeah, I, I mean, firstly, I said, it was, I kind of always, as a young 168 00:08:28,314 --> 00:08:31,914 person, when I was like a kid wanting to own my business, that was like I. 169 00:08:32,789 --> 00:08:35,099 made it if you, if you were on the show. 170 00:08:35,309 --> 00:08:40,079 But yeah, ultimately whether I got, I I, I didn't need the investment. 171 00:08:40,229 --> 00:08:41,159 Well, I didn't need the money. 172 00:08:41,439 --> 00:08:41,739 Mm. 173 00:08:42,390 --> 00:08:47,400 you know, they cut, they cut my last year of financials, so it made me look 174 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:49,589 like I had like 900 pounds in the bank. 175 00:08:49,589 --> 00:08:53,010 But that, that ultimately, that just wasn't true. 176 00:08:53,239 --> 00:08:53,619 Yeah. 177 00:08:53,805 --> 00:08:54,224 I'D won. 178 00:08:54,970 --> 00:08:58,360 60,000 pounds in grant funding and pitch competitions. 179 00:08:58,599 --> 00:08:59,019 Yeah. 180 00:08:59,620 --> 00:09:04,210 but the PR and you know, the being able to get out there in, in front 181 00:09:04,210 --> 00:09:09,280 of a lot, a wider audience, um, and get my messaging and my purpose out 182 00:09:09,849 --> 00:09:10,209 Mm. 183 00:09:10,300 --> 00:09:12,160 ultimately the goal. 184 00:09:12,250 --> 00:09:15,460 Um, you know, having mentorship and help from the dragons 185 00:09:15,820 --> 00:09:17,950 were would, was also the goal. 186 00:09:17,950 --> 00:09:22,060 But, um, you know, but having the idea of it being on national 187 00:09:22,060 --> 00:09:24,340 TV was ultimately the main goal. 188 00:09:24,954 --> 00:09:30,175 And so, uh, if, if I can ask what happened to the business then after 189 00:09:30,175 --> 00:09:32,259 you, after the TV show was air. 190 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:33,250 Yeah. 191 00:09:33,250 --> 00:09:39,400 So, uh, on the evening, uh, we, we, we had a, um, kind of of 192 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:41,050 thousands of people on our website. 193 00:09:41,050 --> 00:09:44,560 I think overall we had about 20,000 people on the website, 194 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:46,900 um, which was, which was good. 195 00:09:46,959 --> 00:09:47,944 Uh, not as many as I thought. 196 00:09:48,715 --> 00:09:48,935 Hmm, 197 00:09:49,090 --> 00:09:50,199 that space of time. 198 00:09:50,439 --> 00:09:53,980 Um, but again, like it, it didn't really cross my mind that people 199 00:09:53,980 --> 00:09:56,260 don't watch live TV anymore. 200 00:09:56,710 --> 00:09:57,520 that's so true. 201 00:09:57,670 --> 00:10:03,459 and no one watches, like, especially no one my age even has a TV license. 202 00:10:03,850 --> 00:10:06,160 So watching BBC is not. 203 00:10:07,030 --> 00:10:08,500 Not even on their radar. 204 00:10:08,830 --> 00:10:13,210 Um, like half a million people that last year started paying for TV licenses. 205 00:10:13,670 --> 00:10:13,889 Wow. 206 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:18,370 um, it, we grew on social media, but again, I think we 207 00:10:18,370 --> 00:10:20,410 gained like 2000 followers, 208 00:10:21,025 --> 00:10:21,114 Right. 209 00:10:21,850 --> 00:10:25,870 which, you know, from mentors I'd spoken to at that had been on the show. 210 00:10:26,245 --> 00:10:29,845 You know, five years ago that was like nothing. 211 00:10:30,055 --> 00:10:34,885 Um, and we gained, we got lot, quite a few sales, like a couple hundred 212 00:10:34,885 --> 00:10:39,205 sales, um, over the next, like that evening and the next few days. 213 00:10:39,564 --> 00:10:42,295 Um, which all really great. 214 00:10:42,385 --> 00:10:46,855 Um, I reached a whole new audience that I never thought I would 215 00:10:47,020 --> 00:10:47,439 Mm-hmm. 216 00:10:47,515 --> 00:10:50,485 demographic, uh, age demographic. 217 00:10:50,575 --> 00:10:52,855 Uh, my age demographic probably went up by. 218 00:10:54,114 --> 00:10:54,925 30 years. 219 00:10:54,925 --> 00:10:56,004 20 to 30 years. 220 00:10:56,454 --> 00:11:04,854 Um, so, you know, overall we did get, um, out there, um, but not particularly 221 00:11:04,854 --> 00:11:09,295 out there to the people that I thought or I would've wanted to reach. 222 00:11:09,744 --> 00:11:09,984 Yeah. 223 00:11:10,854 --> 00:11:15,655 'cause yeah, then it, it, it, how we communicate with these people 224 00:11:15,655 --> 00:11:19,344 and the customer service and all these things you don't think of 225 00:11:19,344 --> 00:11:21,744 and processes before have now been. 226 00:11:22,555 --> 00:11:23,125 Of a pain in the. 227 00:11:26,814 --> 00:11:27,324 Yeah. 228 00:11:27,385 --> 00:11:27,714 Yeah. 229 00:11:27,714 --> 00:11:28,224 As you get. 230 00:11:28,224 --> 00:11:30,234 Yeah, I, I can appreciate that. 231 00:11:30,234 --> 00:11:35,515 I remember when we, um, when we launched our beauty website, um, I think I've 232 00:11:35,515 --> 00:11:38,304 told this story before on the show, but we'd launched a beauty website. 233 00:11:38,304 --> 00:11:44,319 I. And, um, in two, but this is, this is a long time ago. 234 00:11:44,319 --> 00:11:50,199 This is 2006 when we launched the site, and we thought that by the end of the 235 00:11:50,199 --> 00:11:55,449 year, um, so we had like four months to go until the end of the year, right? 236 00:11:55,449 --> 00:11:57,550 So we thought in that four months, if we could do about 237 00:11:57,550 --> 00:11:59,169 10,000 pounds worth of sales. 238 00:12:00,310 --> 00:12:04,899 We were on track, you know, with our, what we predicted that, you know, we could 239 00:12:04,899 --> 00:12:07,240 potentially do with some clever marketing. 240 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:11,740 We thought we could probably do about 50 grand in our first year. 241 00:12:11,740 --> 00:12:14,740 So in the first four months, if we hit 10 grand, we'd be okay. 242 00:12:15,730 --> 00:12:18,490 But we didn't do 10,000 pounds in sales in our first four months. 243 00:12:18,490 --> 00:12:21,790 We did 400,000 pounds in sales in the first four months, 244 00:12:22,209 --> 00:12:27,280 and the result of that was. 245 00:12:27,790 --> 00:12:29,050 Quite extraordinary. 246 00:12:29,050 --> 00:12:32,379 So you have to rethink a lot of what you once knew, right? 247 00:12:32,379 --> 00:12:35,259 So, and this is what you're finding out that actually all of a 248 00:12:35,259 --> 00:12:39,429 sudden, I mean, managing a business which is rapidly growing is, is 249 00:12:39,429 --> 00:12:43,719 fundamentally a wonderful problem to have, but it is still a problem. 250 00:12:45,009 --> 00:12:48,759 And there are still things that you have to think about and you have to 251 00:12:48,759 --> 00:12:52,540 deal with and you have to, you know, adapt to and so on and so forth. 252 00:12:52,540 --> 00:12:55,479 And, um, it was just, I, I just remember that. 253 00:12:56,125 --> 00:12:57,024 Phase. 254 00:12:57,234 --> 00:13:00,294 Um, I mean, to be fair, I didn't have to deal with most of it because, uh, 255 00:13:00,294 --> 00:13:01,464 we just did the website of things. 256 00:13:01,464 --> 00:13:02,004 It was just great. 257 00:13:02,004 --> 00:13:04,944 But it, it was, it was quite an extraordinary time. 258 00:13:04,944 --> 00:13:09,744 And so I can see how, how you would have a few things that you now have to deal with. 259 00:13:10,105 --> 00:13:14,034 Has the, has the momentum stayed or was it sort of a, a blip? 260 00:13:14,589 --> 00:13:15,310 Uh, no. 261 00:13:15,310 --> 00:13:16,899 Like this is the first time ever. 262 00:13:16,899 --> 00:13:19,030 I've not had a single day without sales. 263 00:13:19,224 --> 00:13:19,554 Hmm. 264 00:13:20,139 --> 00:13:25,720 but again, it, I was slightly disappointed because I had in my head 265 00:13:26,109 --> 00:13:28,389 figures that I'd known people in the 266 00:13:28,574 --> 00:13:28,854 Yeah. 267 00:13:29,020 --> 00:13:31,089 done versus what I had done. 268 00:13:31,419 --> 00:13:34,329 Um, so although like. 269 00:13:34,974 --> 00:13:36,834 Actually now I've taken a step back. 270 00:13:36,834 --> 00:13:39,925 Um, this is amazing 'cause this is more than I've ever, ever made, 271 00:13:40,194 --> 00:13:42,504 but it's still like, is it enough? 272 00:13:42,504 --> 00:13:47,484 And are we, is the then like the next step and the future of my business that 273 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:47,859 Yeah. 274 00:13:48,294 --> 00:13:51,474 um, you know, it wasn't this overnight thing that I kind of 275 00:13:52,194 --> 00:13:53,875 my head thought it would be. 276 00:13:54,354 --> 00:14:00,714 Um, uh, but we ha we are still having sales every day and ultimately. 277 00:14:01,464 --> 00:14:04,135 people that are my target audience don't watch the show. 278 00:14:04,135 --> 00:14:09,534 So it's now about resharing the clips and, uh, kind of, you know, trying to make 279 00:14:09,534 --> 00:14:13,435 the most of the press on social media. 280 00:14:13,479 --> 00:14:14,050 Yeah. 281 00:14:14,054 --> 00:14:14,064 Yeah. 282 00:14:14,574 --> 00:14:16,944 because the people I have reached, they don't have social media. 283 00:14:17,094 --> 00:14:17,544 They don't even 284 00:14:17,619 --> 00:14:17,679 Yeah. 285 00:14:18,145 --> 00:14:19,854 particularly know how to use emails, a lot of them. 286 00:14:20,689 --> 00:14:25,554 Um, um, so yeah, it, but it has, it's, it stayed, it obviously 287 00:14:25,554 --> 00:14:27,714 the night of it was huge. 288 00:14:28,074 --> 00:14:28,854 Um, but. 289 00:14:29,919 --> 00:14:31,689 are ploting along, which is good. 290 00:14:32,029 --> 00:14:32,935 It is interesting, isn't it? 291 00:14:32,935 --> 00:14:38,619 I remember we had Lucy from Tom Jewelry on the show, and I. Her business 292 00:14:38,619 --> 00:14:43,179 took a turn when Stacey Solomon was pictured wearing her jewelry. 293 00:14:43,179 --> 00:14:45,550 I think she, I think Stacey was wearing it when she got married. 294 00:14:45,849 --> 00:14:48,369 And to be totally full disclosure, I love Stacey. 295 00:14:48,699 --> 00:14:52,149 Uh, I think she's in, my wife and I are always watching the TV shows. 296 00:14:52,149 --> 00:14:52,810 Just think she's great. 297 00:14:53,529 --> 00:14:56,949 Um, and again, if you're outside of the uk, Stacey is just, 298 00:14:56,949 --> 00:14:58,569 she's a UK TV personality. 299 00:14:58,599 --> 00:15:00,429 Who is, um, is just lovely. 300 00:15:00,429 --> 00:15:02,560 So she's very real, isn't she, Stacy? 301 00:15:03,279 --> 00:15:04,599 And, um. 302 00:15:05,619 --> 00:15:08,709 Yeah, Lucy was talking about how she was photographed at 303 00:15:08,709 --> 00:15:09,849 her wedding with her jewelry. 304 00:15:10,270 --> 00:15:16,869 And so Lucy's whole Mo then became about using that in her social media. 305 00:15:16,869 --> 00:15:20,349 It wasn't like the world picked up on the fact that Stacey was 306 00:15:20,349 --> 00:15:22,689 wearing, um, Lucy's jewelry. 307 00:15:22,694 --> 00:15:22,824 Jewelry. 308 00:15:22,959 --> 00:15:24,339 Lucy had to tell the world, 309 00:15:24,699 --> 00:15:27,490 uh, on, and I think she still does in many ways. 310 00:15:27,490 --> 00:15:35,889 And I think, um, it used to be, I remember years ago, um, I. There was, oh, 311 00:15:35,889 --> 00:15:41,079 what's the, there's a self tan product that I can't remember the name of. 312 00:15:41,079 --> 00:15:43,629 It was super popular for a period of time. 313 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:48,339 And, um, the, I remember the brand wasn't really doing anything and then somebody 314 00:15:48,730 --> 00:15:52,810 in the press took a picture of Victoria Beckham, you know, carrying a, a, a 315 00:15:52,810 --> 00:15:54,490 carrier bag with a logo on the front. 316 00:15:54,879 --> 00:15:57,550 And then all of a sudden everybody wanted that fake tank 'cause 317 00:15:57,550 --> 00:15:58,750 Victoria Beckham was using it. 318 00:15:58,750 --> 00:16:00,099 And I get that, that. 319 00:16:01,329 --> 00:16:05,530 Influencer aspect is quite important, um, with, with famous influencer. 320 00:16:05,534 --> 00:16:07,000 I, I, like you say, I think it's different now. 321 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,879 People don't read magazines, they don't really watch live tv. 322 00:16:09,879 --> 00:16:11,169 It's all moved on. 323 00:16:11,949 --> 00:16:16,720 Uh, and so I ge I, I see why you're probably in a phase now 324 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:21,135 where you can use those clips, I'm guessing, for social proof. 325 00:16:21,145 --> 00:16:21,494 Right. 326 00:16:21,984 --> 00:16:22,375 yeah. 327 00:16:22,375 --> 00:16:23,875 Well, yes and no. 328 00:16:24,554 --> 00:16:24,845 Okay. 329 00:16:25,464 --> 00:16:26,845 technically we're not allowed. 330 00:16:27,145 --> 00:16:30,714 Like you're not, it says you're not allowed to use clips from the show, 331 00:16:31,464 --> 00:16:31,915 Okay. 332 00:16:32,034 --> 00:16:33,054 promote your business, 333 00:16:33,204 --> 00:16:33,564 Yeah, 334 00:16:33,595 --> 00:16:37,494 we all know that every single business that has ever been on Dragons then 335 00:16:37,824 --> 00:16:41,605 uses clips from the show and puts, you know, a big banner with pictures 336 00:16:41,605 --> 00:16:43,254 on their website that says seen on. 337 00:16:43,615 --> 00:16:48,774 Um, so yeah, there was like, there was businesses that were. 338 00:16:49,510 --> 00:16:51,369 Breaking the rules of the, the, you know, 339 00:16:51,385 --> 00:16:51,714 yeah. 340 00:16:52,089 --> 00:16:54,159 that we'd been given before they'd even been on the show. 341 00:16:54,354 --> 00:16:54,685 Mm-hmm. 342 00:16:55,569 --> 00:17:00,280 so yeah, it's, I, am now going to use the clips. 343 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:05,499 It's just, um, I think it's more of a ask for forgiveness, not permission. 344 00:17:06,339 --> 00:17:06,669 Situation. 345 00:17:07,149 --> 00:17:07,629 Yeah. 346 00:17:07,719 --> 00:17:08,319 Yeah. 347 00:17:08,439 --> 00:17:12,399 do say that they're meant to approve every, any piece of content you ever post, 348 00:17:12,609 --> 00:17:12,879 Yeah. 349 00:17:13,239 --> 00:17:14,259 in relation to it. 350 00:17:14,619 --> 00:17:18,579 Um, but yeah, I mean, how many ads have I have you seen from 351 00:17:18,684 --> 00:17:18,764 Hmm. 352 00:17:19,029 --> 00:17:20,049 fussy deodorant 353 00:17:20,584 --> 00:17:21,004 Mm-hmm. 354 00:17:21,099 --> 00:17:23,244 I. All those brands that have been on it. 355 00:17:23,484 --> 00:17:27,565 Um, so yeah, it's now, you know, figuring out like how I, how I use 356 00:17:27,565 --> 00:17:32,754 it, how I want to go about talking about it and sharing the clips. 357 00:17:32,995 --> 00:17:36,715 'cause they're, believe it, they managed to cut any conversation about 358 00:17:36,715 --> 00:17:38,875 my actual products out of the edit. 359 00:17:38,889 --> 00:17:39,490 Yeah. 360 00:17:40,254 --> 00:17:42,925 they spent like a whole hour talking about my mascara. 361 00:17:43,044 --> 00:17:45,115 Um, uh. 362 00:17:45,549 --> 00:17:49,449 I thought, oh, we'll do a little cute, uh, social media post, like with mascara 363 00:17:49,449 --> 00:17:53,439 account, like how many times the dragon said the word mascara they didn't 364 00:17:53,439 --> 00:17:56,019 say mascara once in the entire edit. 365 00:17:56,499 --> 00:18:01,779 Um, and yeah, so there isn't actually much like product 366 00:18:02,030 --> 00:18:02,250 Hmm. 367 00:18:02,439 --> 00:18:04,179 stuff that I could even use to 368 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:04,360 Hmm. 369 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:06,580 technically promote your business. 370 00:18:06,669 --> 00:18:11,320 Um, so yeah, it's just kind of being clever with how I, how I use 371 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,049 it and how I wanna go about next. 372 00:18:14,575 --> 00:18:16,524 Yeah, which makes sense. 373 00:18:16,615 --> 00:18:18,565 It's um, I'm curious, how did you deal? 374 00:18:18,565 --> 00:18:21,745 You mentioned, um, and I don't wanna put words in your mouth, Millie, 375 00:18:21,745 --> 00:18:24,445 but you mentioned that you were a little bit disappointed with. 376 00:18:25,675 --> 00:18:29,605 Both the exposure and I suppose the re like the, the resorting social media 377 00:18:29,605 --> 00:18:33,024 followers and the, and the sales, I suppose a little bit a, a after drag. 378 00:18:33,024 --> 00:18:34,014 You thought that would be bigger. 379 00:18:34,794 --> 00:18:39,205 And, um, if I'm honest with you, every entrepreneur that's ever started a 380 00:18:39,205 --> 00:18:44,395 business irrespective of whether they've been on Dragons Den, always wanted it 381 00:18:44,395 --> 00:18:45,835 to be bigger and better than it was. 382 00:18:46,075 --> 00:18:48,175 Um, have, have you dealt with that? 383 00:18:49,495 --> 00:18:51,985 Uh, difficultly to be honest. 384 00:18:52,345 --> 00:18:56,649 Um, I. It all became a bit overwhelming. 385 00:18:56,739 --> 00:18:58,149 Um, on the night. 386 00:18:58,149 --> 00:19:02,320 Everyone, you know, a perfectionist and like a lot of business owners, 387 00:19:02,590 --> 00:19:05,050 like I had an idea in my head. 388 00:19:05,260 --> 00:19:08,739 So when it fell short of it, um, I was disappointed. 389 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,949 And as much as people have good intention around me, they're 390 00:19:11,949 --> 00:19:13,810 like, no, but it's amazing. 391 00:19:13,810 --> 00:19:17,949 Like, look at this and, or, you know, I, I, all I could think 392 00:19:17,949 --> 00:19:20,169 of is what wasn't in the edit. 393 00:19:20,530 --> 00:19:23,530 Um, and obviously I'm the only one who knew what actually. 394 00:19:23,745 --> 00:19:24,705 Was said and done. 395 00:19:24,705 --> 00:19:28,604 And I had a, I also had a idea of what would've made the cut in 396 00:19:28,645 --> 00:19:28,975 Hmm. 397 00:19:29,145 --> 00:19:29,685 tv. 398 00:19:30,104 --> 00:19:34,395 Um, so having as much as people meant well, the more people said, 399 00:19:34,395 --> 00:19:37,635 oh no, but you came across so well, or you are doing amazing. 400 00:19:37,905 --> 00:19:39,584 It kind of annoyed me more. 401 00:19:40,039 --> 00:19:40,319 Right. 402 00:19:40,364 --> 00:19:45,165 Um, but I've just been trying to take a step back and look at, you know. 403 00:19:45,970 --> 00:19:48,730 The actual amazing achievements that we have got. 404 00:19:48,745 --> 00:19:49,104 Hmm. 405 00:19:50,020 --> 00:19:53,470 and taking a step back from social media and emails and 406 00:19:53,470 --> 00:19:55,840 trying to find some kind of. 407 00:19:56,844 --> 00:20:01,074 Balance between my work and my life, where that, where, where that starts and 408 00:20:01,074 --> 00:20:03,745 that ends, um, in the last couple weeks. 409 00:20:03,804 --> 00:20:08,304 Um, because yeah, I was becoming really overwhelmed with just the, um, 410 00:20:08,365 --> 00:20:12,294 sheer amount of work because I've been packaging all the orders myself, I've 411 00:20:12,354 --> 00:20:12,954 Right. 412 00:20:13,135 --> 00:20:13,675 customers. 413 00:20:14,094 --> 00:20:19,794 And, um, I ended up accidentally sending out, um, a few bits of faulty product. 414 00:20:20,844 --> 00:20:22,885 and it's the first time this has ever happened. 415 00:20:22,945 --> 00:20:24,594 I've ever had faulty product. 416 00:20:25,014 --> 00:20:26,125 So we've got that. 417 00:20:26,514 --> 00:20:26,815 The. 418 00:20:27,159 --> 00:20:30,280 You know, we've got hundreds of people or like a hundred people, 419 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,520 their first experience is a bad one. 420 00:20:33,699 --> 00:20:37,449 Um, and I put my heart and soul into these products and 421 00:20:37,449 --> 00:20:38,800 I've never had to deal with it. 422 00:20:39,189 --> 00:20:43,120 Um, and then having customers email me, almost like kind of attacking 423 00:20:43,149 --> 00:20:45,070 in like I purposely sent them. 424 00:20:45,394 --> 00:20:46,504 Terrible product. 425 00:20:46,655 --> 00:20:46,874 Mm. 426 00:20:46,924 --> 00:20:52,624 Um, it was really devastating and trying to like pick myself back up and see 427 00:20:52,654 --> 00:20:58,624 how this continues was, you know, it's been hard, but um, trying to celebrate 428 00:20:58,624 --> 00:21:00,844 the small wins has been a big help. 429 00:21:01,434 --> 00:21:01,735 Yeah. 430 00:21:01,735 --> 00:21:02,034 Yeah. 431 00:21:02,274 --> 00:21:05,904 How did you, how did you approach that customer service problem? 432 00:21:06,610 --> 00:21:11,050 Um, I've got a va, uh, through access to work who kind of helps 433 00:21:11,050 --> 00:21:12,790 with my life admin and stuff. 434 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:20,139 Um, and at first I tried to tackle it all, which wasn't a good idea, um, because 435 00:21:20,679 --> 00:21:22,689 again, I'm too close to the problem. 436 00:21:22,689 --> 00:21:25,540 I'm too close to what I know it should be. 437 00:21:25,540 --> 00:21:29,500 And, um, so at first, I, uh. 438 00:21:29,964 --> 00:21:33,204 I was replying to emails all, all hours and I'd been bombarded 439 00:21:33,204 --> 00:21:36,894 by them and I didn't have much patience for people, for people. 440 00:21:37,284 --> 00:21:37,944 Um, 441 00:21:38,215 --> 00:21:39,205 Especially mean people. 442 00:21:39,444 --> 00:21:41,724 yeah, because I was like, you've watched me 443 00:21:41,995 --> 00:21:42,414 Mm-hmm. 444 00:21:42,594 --> 00:21:47,394 national tv, pour my crying on national tv, pour my heart and 445 00:21:47,394 --> 00:21:53,964 soul out, then you email me being horrible and saying I'm disgraceful. 446 00:21:53,964 --> 00:21:55,644 And, you know, using really. 447 00:21:56,124 --> 00:22:00,024 Mean words, uh, almost like I've done it on purpose. 448 00:22:00,024 --> 00:22:01,195 I'm trying to scam you. 449 00:22:01,524 --> 00:22:05,514 Or people are, you know, really impatient for their parcels as well. 450 00:22:05,995 --> 00:22:08,514 Um, like we've had that a lot people waiting more 451 00:22:08,829 --> 00:22:08,889 Yeah. 452 00:22:08,965 --> 00:22:09,564 days. 453 00:22:09,655 --> 00:22:14,695 Um, e you know, um, so I then realized I very quickly needed to 454 00:22:14,699 --> 00:22:16,735 outsource it and get someone else to. 455 00:22:17,154 --> 00:22:19,164 That's not so close to it to 456 00:22:19,344 --> 00:22:19,704 Yeah. 457 00:22:20,304 --> 00:22:24,774 Um, because yeah, as I say, um, it was, I was taking it personally. 458 00:22:25,254 --> 00:22:25,794 Um. 459 00:22:26,274 --> 00:22:26,514 Yeah. 460 00:22:26,514 --> 00:22:30,745 And you have to develop a little bit of a thick skin, I think in, in, in 461 00:22:30,745 --> 00:22:33,384 eCommerce mainly because I think if you. 462 00:22:35,935 --> 00:22:39,054 I am sure there is some proper name for this, which if I thought 463 00:22:39,054 --> 00:22:41,634 about it, I, it would dredge it up from the back of my head. 464 00:22:42,264 --> 00:22:46,344 But the, the interesting thing is if you buy something from a shop and you 465 00:22:46,344 --> 00:22:50,394 then take it back to the shop, you appreciate that the person in front of 466 00:22:50,394 --> 00:22:52,884 you was not the source of the problem. 467 00:22:53,124 --> 00:22:53,425 Right? 468 00:22:53,485 --> 00:22:55,044 But they're the person that can help you. 469 00:22:55,465 --> 00:22:57,564 And you might be a little bit peeved at the shop 'cause you've got to 470 00:22:57,564 --> 00:23:01,614 take it back and all that sort of stuff, but you, you genuinely. 471 00:23:02,289 --> 00:23:05,889 Generally talk like a reasonable human being, right? 472 00:23:06,639 --> 00:23:12,009 You take that per same person and you put them in a place where they become faceless 473 00:23:12,129 --> 00:23:14,139 and their communication is digital. 474 00:23:14,340 --> 00:23:14,629 Yeah. 475 00:23:15,219 --> 00:23:15,699 Wow. 476 00:23:15,699 --> 00:23:21,279 It's like the meanness, uh, sort of barometer gets turned up. 477 00:23:21,279 --> 00:23:24,009 Does that mean there's, the switch goes all the way around and they say 478 00:23:24,009 --> 00:23:27,639 the most extraordinary things, which they would never say face to face. 479 00:23:28,509 --> 00:23:29,049 Um. 480 00:23:29,889 --> 00:23:34,000 And so, yeah, I think you do have to, you know, be a bit thick skinned, 481 00:23:34,300 --> 00:23:35,080 uh, in that. 482 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,899 And, and we've just come to realize, I think, 'cause my, 483 00:23:37,899 --> 00:23:41,560 initially I would respond, I would ra rally against things like that. 484 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:43,360 I'd be like, well, if you can talk to me like that, I don't care. 485 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:44,979 I just genuinely don't care. 486 00:23:45,639 --> 00:23:48,459 Uh, which is, which is probably not the most helpful response. 487 00:23:48,909 --> 00:23:52,870 Um, and then I took it as a challenge to see if I could win them. 488 00:23:53,205 --> 00:23:53,860 Do you know what I mean? 489 00:23:53,860 --> 00:23:55,540 It's like, well, 'cause if I win them over. 490 00:23:56,739 --> 00:24:00,850 Um, then actually the, they probably will become quite loyal customers. 491 00:24:01,074 --> 00:24:01,434 Yeah, 492 00:24:01,779 --> 00:24:02,229 Do you know what I mean? 493 00:24:02,229 --> 00:24:03,820 Is, is, is sort of what we found. 494 00:24:03,820 --> 00:24:05,259 And so then that became the challenge. 495 00:24:05,259 --> 00:24:08,110 And the way that we did it was just said, listen, we're gonna call you 496 00:24:08,874 --> 00:24:09,354 yeah. 497 00:24:09,669 --> 00:24:10,389 this over the phone. 498 00:24:10,899 --> 00:24:11,259 Right. 499 00:24:11,679 --> 00:24:15,249 Uh, and that, that just changed everything because people are much 500 00:24:15,249 --> 00:24:18,729 more sensible on the phone, uh, than they are on email, isn't know what 501 00:24:18,729 --> 00:24:22,570 it is, put people on Twitter or on email, and they become lunatics. 502 00:24:22,570 --> 00:24:23,049 It's just. 503 00:24:24,009 --> 00:24:24,159 It 504 00:24:24,610 --> 00:24:25,974 just draws it out of us, I guess. 505 00:24:26,245 --> 00:24:26,694 yeah. 506 00:24:26,694 --> 00:24:31,404 It's, um, yeah, it's been learning and even just like, even people using my 507 00:24:31,404 --> 00:24:36,324 website and not, or even using my products and not knowing how to do the, what are 508 00:24:36,354 --> 00:24:38,634 in my head is like the most simple thing 509 00:24:38,745 --> 00:24:39,164 Mm-hmm. 510 00:24:39,504 --> 00:24:39,954 world. 511 00:24:40,314 --> 00:24:41,004 Um. 512 00:24:41,469 --> 00:24:45,069 And just having to talk people, like talk people through things like that. 513 00:24:45,069 --> 00:24:49,269 I'd never even had even imagined anyone would need help with. 514 00:24:50,014 --> 00:24:50,304 Yeah. 515 00:24:50,334 --> 00:24:50,624 Yeah. 516 00:24:51,894 --> 00:24:55,254 So, yeah, it's, but it's been good and we have, you know, done that, 517 00:24:55,254 --> 00:25:00,084 been able to win people over and actually, and even things of, like, 518 00:25:00,114 --> 00:25:04,554 even things like realizing, oh, not to offer a refund as the first, 519 00:25:04,584 --> 00:25:06,474 like a, a replacement and a refund. 520 00:25:06,804 --> 00:25:09,829 Just say, we're gonna send you a. Replacement asap and 521 00:25:10,024 --> 00:25:10,314 Yeah. 522 00:25:10,549 --> 00:25:11,659 for a refund. 523 00:25:11,884 --> 00:25:12,175 Yeah. 524 00:25:12,589 --> 00:25:14,959 it only happened once with one, one lady that I did. 525 00:25:14,959 --> 00:25:15,860 What you exactly. 526 00:25:15,860 --> 00:25:19,430 You said I, I said, you know what, like if you can't wait, I said, I, I 527 00:25:19,579 --> 00:25:24,139 explained to her three times that I was one person packing like 200 orders 528 00:25:24,469 --> 00:25:26,419 and if she couldn't wait for it, uh oh. 529 00:25:26,419 --> 00:25:28,849 Well I said like, do you mind bearing with me? 530 00:25:28,939 --> 00:25:32,120 And, um, she just came back Meina and meina every time and said, 531 00:25:32,124 --> 00:25:34,969 I don't, you know, you know, talking about my shipping stuff. 532 00:25:35,449 --> 00:25:36,169 I said, you know what? 533 00:25:36,229 --> 00:25:38,899 I said, if you can't wait, I'll give you a refund. 534 00:25:39,110 --> 00:25:39,560 I was like, 535 00:25:40,030 --> 00:25:40,929 It's not worth a headache. 536 00:25:41,139 --> 00:25:41,439 Yeah. 537 00:25:41,629 --> 00:25:42,739 it's 20 quid, she 538 00:25:42,774 --> 00:25:43,134 Yeah, 539 00:25:43,759 --> 00:25:45,409 I don't, I don't. 540 00:25:46,374 --> 00:25:47,664 yeah, yeah. 541 00:25:47,965 --> 00:25:50,004 I definitely don't need this in my life. 542 00:25:50,009 --> 00:25:50,524 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 543 00:25:50,604 --> 00:25:52,314 I I I appreciate that. 544 00:25:52,794 --> 00:25:53,664 It's fascinating, isn't it? 545 00:25:53,664 --> 00:25:55,824 'cause it sounds like you've gone through a lot then the last 546 00:25:55,824 --> 00:25:57,774 couple, a big learning curve, 547 00:25:58,074 --> 00:25:59,604 uh, with your econ business. 548 00:26:00,475 --> 00:26:01,524 And it will just keep growing. 549 00:26:01,764 --> 00:26:04,614 Millie, I mean, you're in, you're in the beauty industry, perhaps 550 00:26:04,614 --> 00:26:05,784 one of the most competitive. 551 00:26:06,279 --> 00:26:09,039 I'm, you know, I'm speaking from experience, one of the most 552 00:26:09,039 --> 00:26:11,799 competitive sort of places to try and operate a business in. 553 00:26:12,669 --> 00:26:14,439 You've got quite a unique niche. 554 00:26:14,439 --> 00:26:20,620 You obviously you have a cause and this is, um, something which is 555 00:26:20,620 --> 00:26:22,120 quite interesting in many ways. 556 00:26:22,120 --> 00:26:24,759 You know, businesses that are built around a noble cause. 557 00:26:25,299 --> 00:26:27,939 Um, and what that means, um. 558 00:26:29,695 --> 00:26:33,205 Which is fine if you are somebody like Patagonia or Tom Shoes or somebody 559 00:26:33,205 --> 00:26:36,594 that actually proves that they're doing the cause that they set out 560 00:26:36,594 --> 00:26:39,745 to do, rather than just kind of, you know, greenwashing or cause washing 561 00:26:39,745 --> 00:26:41,245 or whatever the, the phraseology is. 562 00:26:41,965 --> 00:26:44,034 But obviously for you that this is a mission. 563 00:26:44,155 --> 00:26:48,655 It's not just, uh, I, I mean it's nice to make money out of it, but you are doing 564 00:26:48,655 --> 00:26:53,455 this because of a deep personal mission or sense of mission, I would've thought. 565 00:26:53,695 --> 00:26:54,084 Yeah. 566 00:26:55,135 --> 00:26:55,675 Is that right? 567 00:26:55,990 --> 00:26:56,110 I. 568 00:26:56,184 --> 00:26:57,024 Yeah, for sure. 569 00:26:57,024 --> 00:27:03,414 And I have like much white, like bigger ambitions than, um, that have kind of 570 00:27:03,414 --> 00:27:07,434 appeared as a result of this journey that I've been on so far with human 571 00:27:07,434 --> 00:27:12,459 beauty in terms of like, I. Making a bigger change like in the beauty 572 00:27:12,459 --> 00:27:17,289 industry, but also in any product based businesses in terms of accessibility. 573 00:27:17,349 --> 00:27:22,149 'cause you know, ultimately we've got my makeup products, um, and my community. 574 00:27:22,209 --> 00:27:24,399 But what, what is the core of. 575 00:27:25,225 --> 00:27:31,074 I do is my story, which is so many other people's story and also my 576 00:27:31,074 --> 00:27:35,784 kind of more wider for accessibility. 577 00:27:37,344 --> 00:27:43,044 so yeah, it's, it's kind of a piece of hopefully a bigger, bigger puzzle. 578 00:27:44,094 --> 00:27:48,024 Yeah, I, and I want to dig into this a little bit if I can, uh, with you, Millie, 579 00:27:48,024 --> 00:27:54,024 but before I do, let me just do the quick, the quick ad break, uh, as we like to say. 580 00:27:54,354 --> 00:27:57,685 Uh, if you're enjoying this conversation, if you run your own e-commerce business 581 00:27:57,685 --> 00:28:01,134 like Millie, and you would like to join us, why not come and join in. 582 00:28:01,899 --> 00:28:03,249 Our eCommerce cohorts. 583 00:28:03,249 --> 00:28:04,449 We have one in the uk. 584 00:28:04,449 --> 00:28:07,810 We have one in Australia and New Zealand, and we have a new one 585 00:28:07,810 --> 00:28:09,580 actually starting in the US as well. 586 00:28:09,639 --> 00:28:10,360 Uh, probably. 587 00:28:11,274 --> 00:28:13,044 Summertime, 2025. 588 00:28:13,555 --> 00:28:16,794 Um, and so yeah, if you're an e-commerce entrepreneur, uh, 589 00:28:16,794 --> 00:28:20,185 and you want to come join in, basically it's a monthly zoom call. 590 00:28:20,185 --> 00:28:23,605 We just get together with the E-com entrepreneurs, just trade stories, ideas, 591 00:28:23,605 --> 00:28:25,195 and that's about, that's not about it. 592 00:28:25,195 --> 00:28:26,935 There's a bit more to it than that, but you get the point. 593 00:28:26,935 --> 00:28:29,455 You get to hang out with other e-com entrepreneurs and learn from 594 00:28:29,455 --> 00:28:30,865 each other, and it's totally free. 595 00:28:30,925 --> 00:28:31,555 It's pretty awesome. 596 00:28:31,555 --> 00:28:32,004 Pretty rad. 597 00:28:32,004 --> 00:28:32,605 Pretty cool. 598 00:28:32,824 --> 00:28:33,574 Pretty rad. 599 00:28:33,574 --> 00:28:34,774 I can't believe I've just said that. 600 00:28:34,774 --> 00:28:37,624 A man of my age, uh, I've been hanging out with my kids too much. 601 00:28:37,624 --> 00:28:41,705 Anyway, if you wanna know more about eCommerce Cohort, just go to the 602 00:28:41,705 --> 00:28:43,894 website eCommerce Podcast dot net. 603 00:28:43,894 --> 00:28:46,414 And who knows, I might see you on one of those calls. 604 00:28:47,524 --> 00:28:51,634 So, Millie, let me, um, let's jump into this mission, uh, the, the 605 00:28:51,634 --> 00:28:56,735 accessibility around products because, uh, being totally candid, it's not 606 00:28:56,735 --> 00:29:00,784 something that has affected me. 607 00:29:01,205 --> 00:29:02,314 Um, and so. 608 00:29:02,709 --> 00:29:08,379 I, I have to work hard to think about accessibility, if that makes sense. 609 00:29:08,469 --> 00:29:09,010 And, um. 610 00:29:09,684 --> 00:29:14,004 I remember years ago when, you know, the web started becoming a thing and everybody 611 00:29:14,004 --> 00:29:18,864 was just like, in the code you have to put like, um, uh, alt tags on images. 612 00:29:18,864 --> 00:29:23,004 So if someone who's partially bind or blind is using your website, they 613 00:29:23,004 --> 00:29:25,854 understand what the image is and you go, well, this, this makes all the sense in 614 00:29:25,854 --> 00:29:27,419 the world why this should be a standard. 615 00:29:27,429 --> 00:29:27,779 Right. 616 00:29:28,809 --> 00:29:32,169 Even things like contrast, you know, if the colors aren't too distinguished, 617 00:29:32,169 --> 00:29:35,350 then it can affect people, um, visually. 618 00:29:35,350 --> 00:29:38,110 I mean, I'm just an old man now, so I have to wear readers. 619 00:29:38,110 --> 00:29:41,949 So, you know, I don't, I'm not a big fan of tiny fonts, but that's, that's about 620 00:29:41,949 --> 00:29:45,069 the limit in, in some respects where. 621 00:29:45,699 --> 00:29:47,439 I don't see it in experience. 622 00:29:47,465 --> 00:29:50,949 You, you do on a fairly regular basis and you, you've done things 623 00:29:51,399 --> 00:29:53,169 which I think are quite remarkable. 624 00:29:53,169 --> 00:29:56,860 Like, I, I mean, I was joking before we hit the record button, I think about 625 00:29:56,860 --> 00:30:00,760 mascara and how I'm, I'm not brilliant actually at, at, at, at, I'm, I'm not 626 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:04,209 a knowledge base on it, but you've done something quite unusual with the 627 00:30:04,209 --> 00:30:07,360 mascara, which is, I guess why they talked about it for an hour on Dragon's Den. 628 00:30:08,409 --> 00:30:08,889 Yeah. 629 00:30:08,889 --> 00:30:11,494 Yeah, I think, um, it was a mixture between. 630 00:30:12,474 --> 00:30:15,054 Uh, in terms of them talking on Dragon Stand, I think it was 631 00:30:15,054 --> 00:30:17,544 a mixture between what it was. 632 00:30:17,604 --> 00:30:21,294 Um, I do, I it is like the product that a lot of people talk about. 633 00:30:21,324 --> 00:30:25,194 Um, 'cause it has the big, the, you know, the most amount of unique selling points. 634 00:30:25,194 --> 00:30:28,374 So we've got our anti-roll packaging, um, which I. 635 00:30:28,554 --> 00:30:30,534 Ultimately is just square packaging. 636 00:30:30,774 --> 00:30:36,714 But I talk about, um, like incremental innovation has just small tweaks 637 00:30:36,714 --> 00:30:41,064 to existing products that are, um, thoughtful design considerations that 638 00:30:41,064 --> 00:30:42,564 then make it better for everyone. 639 00:30:42,834 --> 00:30:45,804 Um, 'cause until you start thinking about it, you don't realize how many 640 00:30:45,804 --> 00:30:47,664 products in a makeup bag, like round 641 00:30:48,024 --> 00:30:48,264 Mm. 642 00:30:48,919 --> 00:30:51,469 You know, if you're a com you go, you do your makeup on, the commute, on the 643 00:30:51,469 --> 00:30:55,909 train, and you then you have to do that awkward roll under the, under the chair 644 00:30:55,909 --> 00:30:59,090 and have to get in between people and be like, sorry, can I get my product? 645 00:30:59,330 --> 00:31:02,959 So it is like accessible design ultimately benefits everyone. 646 00:31:02,959 --> 00:31:05,750 And if you look around you, there are, there are things that been 647 00:31:05,750 --> 00:31:09,530 designed for disabled people that actually have just made it into the 648 00:31:09,530 --> 00:31:11,480 mainstream 'cause it's just good design. 649 00:31:11,870 --> 00:31:16,820 Um, I do think they spoke about my mascara a lot as well, because. 650 00:31:18,115 --> 00:31:21,504 Peter Jones isn't gonna pick up a pink heart shaped product 651 00:31:21,504 --> 00:31:23,635 and be like, I love this. 652 00:31:23,635 --> 00:31:24,385 This is this. 653 00:31:27,024 --> 00:31:28,350 MAs green. 654 00:31:30,475 --> 00:31:32,094 Arguably masculine. 655 00:31:32,395 --> 00:31:36,985 Um, so I, and then the, the, the rest of the dragons kind of ran with it. 656 00:31:37,044 --> 00:31:38,544 Peter said, this is your product. 657 00:31:38,544 --> 00:31:38,820 And they 658 00:31:38,905 --> 00:31:39,235 Yeah. 659 00:31:39,594 --> 00:31:39,955 with it. 660 00:31:40,405 --> 00:31:44,034 Um, 'cause like our eyeshadow pellet has QR codes, or now we're 661 00:31:44,034 --> 00:31:47,725 gonna put navi lens codes on them, uh, which are basically a QR code. 662 00:31:47,725 --> 00:31:50,665 But Navi lens are, um, slightly different designs. 663 00:31:50,665 --> 00:31:54,534 So people who are visually impaired or blind, um, you can scan the QR code. 664 00:31:54,695 --> 00:31:57,695 From a much further distance, from angles, that type of thing. 665 00:31:57,965 --> 00:32:01,445 And it leads to audio, visual descriptions, uh, of the shades. 666 00:32:01,445 --> 00:32:01,804 And all of 667 00:32:01,919 --> 00:32:01,999 Hmm. 668 00:32:02,345 --> 00:32:05,495 our eyeshadows are kind of placed in positions that make sense. 669 00:32:05,524 --> 00:32:08,014 'cause again, eyeshadow, palettes just are plopped around. 670 00:32:08,014 --> 00:32:09,335 Whatever looks better. 671 00:32:10,264 --> 00:32:10,925 Um. 672 00:32:11,379 --> 00:32:14,830 So, yeah, it's the, and it is also talk about accessibility, not just 673 00:32:14,830 --> 00:32:19,149 from, you know, design features, but price, uh, is often forgotten about. 674 00:32:19,209 --> 00:32:23,889 Um, we're seeing more, some brands bring out like techie devices. 675 00:32:24,189 --> 00:32:28,449 Um, like there was a tech device to apply lipstick and it's basically 676 00:32:28,449 --> 00:32:32,679 a gimbal, uh, camera gimbal, but apply that you can put lipsticks in. 677 00:32:33,249 --> 00:32:33,279 Oh 678 00:32:33,820 --> 00:32:36,249 but it costs, it costs $200. 679 00:32:36,489 --> 00:32:36,819 wow. 680 00:32:37,060 --> 00:32:39,399 it can only be used with this brand's. 681 00:32:39,804 --> 00:32:42,955 Specific mascara, which is about eight times the price of a normal 682 00:32:43,300 --> 00:32:43,780 Right. 683 00:32:44,004 --> 00:32:47,274 which then create, uh, not mascara lip lipstick, which 684 00:32:47,274 --> 00:32:48,745 then creates forced loyalty. 685 00:32:49,135 --> 00:32:54,264 Um, 53% of disabled people are unemployed, um, and it costs on average 686 00:32:54,264 --> 00:32:58,885 1200 pounds a month, more just to live and exist as a disabled person in the 687 00:32:59,094 --> 00:32:59,514 Really. 688 00:32:59,905 --> 00:33:00,294 Yeah. 689 00:33:00,729 --> 00:33:01,120 Wow. 690 00:33:01,465 --> 00:33:03,925 and it's a really scary place for my community right 691 00:33:03,925 --> 00:33:05,245 now with all the government 692 00:33:05,949 --> 00:33:06,580 Yeah, it is. 693 00:33:06,699 --> 00:33:09,520 I mean, yeah, if we were political podcasts, we, I mean, 694 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:10,629 I would rock and roll on this. 695 00:33:10,629 --> 00:33:13,480 I mean, it's ridiculous in many ways, but, um. 696 00:33:14,185 --> 00:33:15,054 that's important. 697 00:33:15,054 --> 00:33:18,804 That price, uh, is also taken into consideration when we 698 00:33:18,804 --> 00:33:20,094 talk about accessible products. 699 00:33:21,279 --> 00:33:25,719 So let me ask you a question then, milli, if I can, I, I run econ businesses, 700 00:33:25,989 --> 00:33:30,519 um, and I, I know many people listening to the show run econ businesses. 701 00:33:31,299 --> 00:33:35,590 What I mean, you, you of beyond the price aspect of it and I, I'm, 702 00:33:36,070 --> 00:33:37,989 I don't quite know how to help 703 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:42,340 with pricing. 704 00:33:43,029 --> 00:33:45,129 Other than give discount to pricing. 705 00:33:46,029 --> 00:33:49,239 But then how do you, how do you do that in a way that is equitable and fair? 706 00:33:49,239 --> 00:33:52,899 I, I, that's gonna take a little bit of thought, but, um, 707 00:33:55,959 --> 00:34:00,519 how do, for someone like me that runs eCommerce businesses, um, that. 708 00:34:02,469 --> 00:34:03,955 I, I think that's probably fair to say. 709 00:34:03,955 --> 00:34:06,175 We all have a real heart to do the right thing. 710 00:34:06,594 --> 00:34:07,344 Some people don't. 711 00:34:07,344 --> 00:34:09,685 And I get, you know, and, and, and if that's you, please 712 00:34:09,685 --> 00:34:10,554 don't listen to the show. 713 00:34:10,764 --> 00:34:12,175 Uh, you should probably turn it off now. 714 00:34:12,805 --> 00:34:13,750 Um, but we Do, you know what I mean? 715 00:34:13,755 --> 00:34:16,405 We have a real heart in some respects to do the right thing. 716 00:34:17,155 --> 00:34:21,865 Um, but we don't know what we don't know if that makes sense. 717 00:34:21,985 --> 00:34:26,185 And so where's a good place for us to start? 718 00:34:26,185 --> 00:34:28,615 What's some of the things that we should think about maybe is a better question 719 00:34:28,615 --> 00:34:30,115 when it comes to round accessibility. 720 00:34:30,445 --> 00:34:35,784 Um, well, I would say to follow, especially for like eCommerce websites, 721 00:34:35,784 --> 00:34:40,915 social media accessibility, there's someone on LinkedIn called Jamie Shields. 722 00:34:41,325 --> 00:34:41,615 Okay. 723 00:34:41,875 --> 00:34:43,284 he calls himself the blind Rhino. 724 00:34:44,085 --> 00:34:44,865 Um, 725 00:34:44,985 --> 00:34:45,275 Okay. 726 00:34:45,945 --> 00:34:52,425 he does a lot of resources and posts about, um, whether that be, 727 00:34:52,575 --> 00:34:57,795 um, like social media captions, alt texts, websites, contrasts. 728 00:34:58,155 --> 00:35:03,465 Um, and his, his information is usually in infographics and it's 729 00:35:03,465 --> 00:35:09,915 so easily digestible and it's, um, entertaining and, um, yeah, it's not. 730 00:35:10,315 --> 00:35:13,855 It's easy to kind of take in as someone who has no 731 00:35:14,205 --> 00:35:14,495 Yeah. 732 00:35:14,665 --> 00:35:15,805 in accessibility. 733 00:35:16,075 --> 00:35:17,635 I've learned a lot from him. 734 00:35:17,725 --> 00:35:21,865 Um, and 'cause he, uh, talks about accessibility and he's blind. 735 00:35:22,195 --> 00:35:26,335 Um, and it's kind of again, like things that you wouldn't even think 736 00:35:26,335 --> 00:35:31,915 about, um, like having sentence casing on your hashtags, for example. 737 00:35:32,275 --> 00:35:37,045 Um, so having, if it was, um, I dunno, uh. 738 00:35:37,930 --> 00:35:45,009 Eco eCommerce Podcast, it'd be having, um, uh, capital letters on each, um, word. 739 00:35:45,270 --> 00:35:45,580 Yeah. 740 00:35:45,610 --> 00:35:47,830 And that's because of the way screen readers read it 741 00:35:48,100 --> 00:35:48,520 Yeah. 742 00:35:48,610 --> 00:35:50,350 not use overusing emojis. 743 00:35:50,470 --> 00:35:54,160 Like some people use emojis as like bullet points and things like that. 744 00:35:54,549 --> 00:35:59,049 Um, so there's little things that again, like I wouldn't have ever thought about. 745 00:35:59,319 --> 00:36:02,770 Um, but it's in a way that you can digest it. 746 00:36:03,070 --> 00:36:04,120 Really easily. 747 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:04,620 Mm 748 00:36:05,170 --> 00:36:09,370 and I think ultimately that, that people in my community are just 749 00:36:09,370 --> 00:36:11,590 happy that people wanna learn and 750 00:36:11,695 --> 00:36:11,755 mm. 751 00:36:11,860 --> 00:36:13,930 we know that you are gonna make mistakes. 752 00:36:13,930 --> 00:36:17,560 Like I've made mistakes, especially when I, with my website, the first 753 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:22,870 round time round when I used an accessibility widget, um, it, it blew up. 754 00:36:23,365 --> 00:36:24,625 Overnight on LinkedIn. 755 00:36:24,775 --> 00:36:29,755 Um, and it was kind of reached the experts who I, I didn't even know were out there. 756 00:36:30,055 --> 00:36:31,765 I thought I was doing a great thing. 757 00:36:31,825 --> 00:36:35,995 And it was like, yeah, 80,000 impressions, hundreds of comments. 758 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:36,640 Oh wow. 759 00:36:37,285 --> 00:36:41,245 and it's a very different world, England versus us in terms of web accessibility. 760 00:36:41,485 --> 00:36:42,085 Mm. 761 00:36:42,295 --> 00:36:46,015 but it's all about humility and learning and you know, putting your 762 00:36:46,015 --> 00:36:49,660 hands up and saying, you know, I. I didn't know or I made a mistake. 763 00:36:49,990 --> 00:36:52,345 Uh, and it's what you do that, 764 00:36:52,885 --> 00:36:53,215 Yeah, 765 00:36:53,435 --> 00:36:53,785 learn, 766 00:36:54,715 --> 00:36:54,925 yeah. 767 00:36:54,925 --> 00:36:55,855 No, that's a fair comment. 768 00:36:55,885 --> 00:36:59,035 And I think that's very wise lessons for all of us in that really. 769 00:36:59,815 --> 00:37:03,565 Um, because like you say, uh, I think just trying to improve, just trying 770 00:37:03,565 --> 00:37:05,515 to be better and, and actually just. 771 00:37:06,295 --> 00:37:08,845 Real people who struggle in real different ways. 772 00:37:08,845 --> 00:37:13,585 And, and actually it doesn't take a lot from our point of view to, to make it 773 00:37:13,585 --> 00:37:16,945 a whole lot easier for a whole bunch of people, you know, with what we do. 774 00:37:16,945 --> 00:37:18,295 And I, I think that's fair play. 775 00:37:19,345 --> 00:37:19,915 What's the future? 776 00:37:19,915 --> 00:37:23,335 Hold, Millie, what does, uh, what's, what's the next few 777 00:37:23,335 --> 00:37:25,015 years of human beauty look like? 778 00:37:25,015 --> 00:37:26,424 Where are you hoping it all goes to? 779 00:37:27,609 --> 00:37:32,770 Yeah, that's the, uh, that's the, that's the question that, um, is going 780 00:37:32,770 --> 00:37:34,810 around in my head a lot at the moment. 781 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:40,629 Um, 'cause ultimately I need to making enough that I can pay myself is, uh. 782 00:37:41,125 --> 00:37:41,845 Number one. 783 00:37:42,295 --> 00:37:45,715 Um, as I said in this, the show, I, I wanna be the Fenty 784 00:37:45,715 --> 00:37:47,335 Beauty for accessible beauty. 785 00:37:47,725 --> 00:37:51,685 Um, I do believe that the beauty industry is gonna catch on like 786 00:37:51,685 --> 00:37:54,295 the adaptive fashion, world. 787 00:37:54,325 --> 00:37:57,565 It, it boomed and is a multi-million pound, maybe 788 00:37:57,565 --> 00:37:59,695 billion pound, uh, industry now. 789 00:37:59,995 --> 00:38:01,975 Um, and I wanna be the one leading. 790 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:02,660 Mm. 791 00:38:02,830 --> 00:38:03,700 way for that. 792 00:38:04,090 --> 00:38:10,390 Um, and yeah, being known for accessible beauty, I want to start my other, uh, 793 00:38:10,420 --> 00:38:16,120 business, um, which I talk about making much wider change in terms of some 794 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,610 kind of, um, you know, certification. 795 00:38:18,700 --> 00:38:22,330 Uh, we we're basically gonna do a certification for products. 796 00:38:22,630 --> 00:38:25,630 Um, 'cause that right now there's no legislation. 797 00:38:25,630 --> 00:38:28,840 That means businesses have to be accessible when it 798 00:38:28,870 --> 00:38:29,290 Right. 799 00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:31,600 There's legislation for venues. 800 00:38:31,859 --> 00:38:32,490 Kind of. 801 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:38,910 Um, and ultimately we right now going to a business sale, it's, you 802 00:38:38,910 --> 00:38:40,680 know, it is the right thing to do. 803 00:38:41,100 --> 00:38:46,259 Um, it's, I want to make a bigger change in terms of, uh, consulting with 804 00:38:46,259 --> 00:38:51,270 businesses and helping businesses develop products that are accessible from. 805 00:38:51,745 --> 00:38:52,405 The start, 806 00:38:52,895 --> 00:38:53,185 Yeah. 807 00:38:53,305 --> 00:38:57,505 because we're such a huge minority, the world's largest minority, 808 00:38:57,595 --> 00:39:00,685 and ultimately the, the one that anyone can become a part of. 809 00:39:01,195 --> 00:39:04,435 Um, and you say about your, your gases and stuff that when I talk about 810 00:39:04,435 --> 00:39:08,845 disability, it's such a huge, huge, um, umbrella term, like age related, 811 00:39:08,935 --> 00:39:13,765 macular degeneration would come under that, uh, in terms of accessibility. 812 00:39:13,765 --> 00:39:15,715 So accessibility really affects everyone. 813 00:39:16,105 --> 00:39:16,495 Um. 814 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:18,750 So that is the plan. 815 00:39:18,810 --> 00:39:22,440 I, I would, I need to get an investor basically as well. 816 00:39:22,590 --> 00:39:27,330 Um, and hopefully one that shares my values in terms of making a 817 00:39:27,330 --> 00:39:31,980 change and someone in the beauty industry, hopefully, because it's 818 00:39:31,980 --> 00:39:34,230 such a closed door industry still. 819 00:39:34,230 --> 00:39:34,980 Everyone does. 820 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:35,880 Everyone is harsh. 821 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:36,150 Harsh. 822 00:39:36,150 --> 00:39:38,940 No one wants to share anything really. 823 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:40,830 Um, so 824 00:39:41,620 --> 00:39:46,360 Yeah, the beauty industry, I think in some respects run by major core. 825 00:39:46,390 --> 00:39:50,800 I, I appreciate there are, what I'm about to say is not true of everybody because 826 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:55,810 that would be an unfair thing to say, but I think the way that I viewed the beauty 827 00:39:55,810 --> 00:39:57,610 industry was I was glad to get out of it. 828 00:39:58,375 --> 00:40:04,195 Um, uh, when we, when we did, because it is, it is horrific in 829 00:40:04,195 --> 00:40:05,815 some respects on so many levels. 830 00:40:05,815 --> 00:40:11,695 I remember, um, reading the stat that my daughter, who instantly has just turned 831 00:40:11,695 --> 00:40:13,765 18, uh, but she wasn't 18 at the time. 832 00:40:14,215 --> 00:40:18,655 Um, she would see around 3000 images a day 833 00:40:19,585 --> 00:40:19,975 through. 834 00:40:21,505 --> 00:40:27,775 TV through social media, through magazines, through posters, and out 835 00:40:27,775 --> 00:40:30,775 of those 3000 images, she would see every single one of them would've 836 00:40:30,775 --> 00:40:32,275 been photoshopped in some way. 837 00:40:32,425 --> 00:40:38,875 So it, it's this industry which presents an unreality, which is so far distorted 838 00:40:38,875 --> 00:40:40,195 from what is actually going on. 839 00:40:40,225 --> 00:40:41,965 I think it's criminal in many ways. 840 00:40:42,685 --> 00:40:46,645 Um, and it was like you, I, I felt the need to sort of. 841 00:40:48,265 --> 00:40:54,685 Challenge that, uh, when I was in the beauty industry and it's not easy. 842 00:40:54,685 --> 00:40:57,745 So I, I think good on you for doing it because I think 843 00:40:57,745 --> 00:40:59,035 it's a competitive industry. 844 00:40:59,035 --> 00:41:01,285 I think it definitely needs challenging. 845 00:41:01,285 --> 00:41:04,255 I think there is so much wrong with it, and there are some. 846 00:41:04,765 --> 00:41:07,165 Corporations who I think should be taken to task. 847 00:41:07,705 --> 00:41:09,535 Uh, but you know, that's just me, you know? 848 00:41:09,535 --> 00:41:13,285 I'll get off my soapbox now, Millie, but I, I, I think I, I think good on 849 00:41:13,285 --> 00:41:14,904 you for doing it and, and well done. 850 00:41:14,904 --> 00:41:17,395 And I, and keep going because I think it'll make a 851 00:41:17,395 --> 00:41:18,565 difference to people, you know? 852 00:41:19,285 --> 00:41:22,194 And, um, and if you can make a living out of it, great. 853 00:41:22,645 --> 00:41:24,325 Uh, I, I, I think that would be great. 854 00:41:24,475 --> 00:41:25,405 the ultimate thing. 855 00:41:25,465 --> 00:41:29,005 Like I think if I didn't get messages every day from people telling 856 00:41:29,005 --> 00:41:31,765 me important what I'm doing is. 857 00:41:31,855 --> 00:41:34,075 And how game changing it is. 858 00:41:34,075 --> 00:41:34,885 And thank you. 859 00:41:34,885 --> 00:41:37,885 And you know, from that was ultimately the best thing that came from Dragons 860 00:41:37,885 --> 00:41:42,595 then so far, is the messages I receive from people telling me how much 861 00:41:42,595 --> 00:41:47,515 the representation and me speaking up means to hundreds of people. 862 00:41:47,845 --> 00:41:51,205 Um, if it wasn't for that, you know, because you could say, you know, a lot 863 00:41:51,205 --> 00:41:54,445 of people see it, it's just makeup, but it's so much more than that. 864 00:41:54,715 --> 00:41:58,525 If it wasn't for all that love, I probably, I have even, I have 865 00:41:58,525 --> 00:42:00,775 thought about giving up and. 866 00:42:01,415 --> 00:42:01,705 Yeah. 867 00:42:01,900 --> 00:42:03,850 into my policy style thing. 868 00:42:04,089 --> 00:42:10,089 'cause the beauty industry is so, toxic and who, who you know, not what you know. 869 00:42:10,089 --> 00:42:10,450 And it is 870 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:10,750 Hmm. 871 00:42:10,779 --> 00:42:14,230 so many barriers to entry, but I'm not giving up yet. 872 00:42:14,980 --> 00:42:16,840 No, don't definitely keep going. 873 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:20,890 And, um, I, I, I keep telling us your story 'cause I think 874 00:42:20,890 --> 00:42:22,480 it's, it's super inspiring. 875 00:42:22,870 --> 00:42:25,630 Millie, if people wanna reach you, if they want to connect with you, what's 876 00:42:25,630 --> 00:42:27,310 the best way for them to do that? 877 00:42:27,310 --> 00:42:27,340 I. 878 00:42:28,060 --> 00:42:28,660 Uh, yeah. 879 00:42:28,660 --> 00:42:33,160 On LinkedIn, it's Millie Flemington-Claire, um, 880 00:42:33,910 --> 00:42:35,230 uh, through my Instagram. 881 00:42:35,230 --> 00:42:36,750 It's @humanbeautyldn. 882 00:42:37,210 --> 00:42:43,000 And we have a contact to us, uh, form on my website at www.humanbeauty.co uk. 883 00:42:43,705 --> 00:42:44,365 Fantastic. 884 00:42:44,365 --> 00:42:49,075 We'll of course link to all of those in the show notes and if you found our 885 00:42:49,075 --> 00:42:53,545 conversation helpful, uh, today, then make sure you are subscribed to the newsletter. 886 00:42:53,575 --> 00:42:55,585 'cause all of the notes, links and stuff will come in the 887 00:42:55,585 --> 00:42:57,475 newsletter as well as a bit more. 888 00:42:57,475 --> 00:42:58,795 Deep dive into this sort of stuff. 889 00:42:58,795 --> 00:43:01,165 We always try and throw a lot more extra value into the newsletter. 890 00:43:01,165 --> 00:43:04,825 So if you want to know all of those little bits, uh, make 891 00:43:04,825 --> 00:43:05,875 sure you're subscribed to that. 892 00:43:05,875 --> 00:43:06,714 But Millie, thank you. 893 00:43:06,805 --> 00:43:09,505 Uh, one thing I should probably ask you actually before we close out the 894 00:43:09,505 --> 00:43:14,245 show, um, I like to ask guests, I think I mentioned this to you, I like 895 00:43:14,245 --> 00:43:17,665 to ask guests for a question which I then will go and weigh and, and answer 896 00:43:17,665 --> 00:43:21,205 on social media, just slowing down my words to make sure I phrase that right. 897 00:43:21,535 --> 00:43:23,815 Uh, what's your question for me? 898 00:43:24,820 --> 00:43:31,990 Um, if you had, uh, one piece of advice for someone kind of in my. 899 00:43:32,424 --> 00:43:37,915 Position starting out in a competitive, competitive industry, uh, what 900 00:43:37,915 --> 00:43:43,375 would your advice be in terms of like growing and keeping going? 901 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:44,800 Fantastic. 902 00:43:44,890 --> 00:43:46,360 Well, I will answer that question. 903 00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:47,920 If you wanna know how I'm gonna answer it, come follow 904 00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:49,060 me on LinkedIn, Matt Edmundson. 905 00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:51,580 Uh, and I will, I will post the answer there. 906 00:43:51,580 --> 00:43:56,590 But Millie, it's been an absolute joy and a real treat, um, chan to you. 907 00:43:56,650 --> 00:44:00,070 And thank you so much and I wish you every best, uh, every best. 908 00:44:00,070 --> 00:44:01,750 I wish you the best with every end ever. 909 00:44:01,930 --> 00:44:02,350 Uh, 910 00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:03,910 uh, going forward. 911 00:44:04,060 --> 00:44:07,900 It's, it's, it's lovely to see, um, actually. 912 00:44:08,785 --> 00:44:11,665 People wanting to use business to make a difference rather than just 913 00:44:11,665 --> 00:44:13,885 people wanting to use business to make a shared load of money. 914 00:44:14,215 --> 00:44:14,545 Not they have. 915 00:44:14,845 --> 00:44:18,235 I don't have necessarily an issue with that, but I think actually thinking 916 00:44:18,235 --> 00:44:21,145 about the human cost and the human benefit on the way is super important. 917 00:44:21,145 --> 00:44:23,155 So thank you for reminding us, uh, of that. 918 00:44:23,555 --> 00:44:24,550 Thank you for having me. 919 00:44:25,645 --> 00:44:26,755 Well, there you go. 920 00:44:26,755 --> 00:44:27,715 That's it from me. 921 00:44:27,715 --> 00:44:28,735 That's it from Millie. 922 00:44:28,735 --> 00:44:30,540 Thank you so much for joining us. 923 00:44:30,690 --> 00:44:32,845 Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world. 924 00:44:32,875 --> 00:44:33,655 I'll see you next time. 925 00:44:33,955 --> 00:44:34,405 Bye for now.