1 00:00:12,007 --> 00:00:13,026 Matt Edmundson: Welcome to the show. 2 00:00:13,066 --> 00:00:14,536 It's great to be with you. 3 00:00:14,536 --> 00:00:18,286 Like I said, Nathan and I, we're gonna be talking about all things finance. 4 00:00:18,286 --> 00:00:22,906 But before we get into that, let me mention to you about the 5 00:00:22,966 --> 00:00:25,096 website eCommerce podcast.net. 6 00:00:25,096 --> 00:00:28,546 If you haven't visited us already, do come check us out. 7 00:00:28,546 --> 00:00:30,766 There is a newsletter you can sign up for that. 8 00:00:31,281 --> 00:00:36,321 And every week we email you the notes, the transcript notes, the sort of the links 9 00:00:36,841 --> 00:00:39,691 to your inbox, just come straight through. 10 00:00:39,761 --> 00:00:40,371 Yes, it does. 11 00:00:40,381 --> 00:00:43,491 So you don't even have to go pick it up from the website, we'll just email it 12 00:00:43,491 --> 00:00:46,151 to you, but you have to be subscribed to the email for that to happen. 13 00:00:46,151 --> 00:00:48,461 So why not come join the rest of us on there. 14 00:00:49,581 --> 00:00:54,046 Now, today's episode is brought to you by the eCommerce Cohort. 15 00:00:54,446 --> 00:00:59,566 The eCommerce Cohort is our monthly mastermind group that you can come join. 16 00:00:59,566 --> 00:01:00,676 Be great to see you in there. 17 00:01:00,696 --> 00:01:06,667 Every month we have great guests coming in and delivering some amazing workshops 18 00:01:06,716 --> 00:01:11,957 around eCommerce and how we can utilize that in our own eCommerce businesses. 19 00:01:11,957 --> 00:01:16,127 Super practical, super helpful, and that's just great actually. 20 00:01:16,167 --> 00:01:18,767 We go through them together as a business. 21 00:01:18,767 --> 00:01:20,697 You can do it as an individual, you can do it as a business. 22 00:01:20,717 --> 00:01:21,306 Come join us. 23 00:01:21,407 --> 00:01:22,517 It's pretty cheap to join. 24 00:01:22,777 --> 00:01:25,317 Find out more at ecommercecohort. 25 00:01:25,357 --> 00:01:26,767 com and I will see you in there. 26 00:01:27,227 --> 00:01:30,517 Now, before we get into the conversation with Nathan let me give a shout out 27 00:01:30,517 --> 00:01:34,476 to Ben Leonard, actually, because Ben was the chap that introduced us. 28 00:01:34,577 --> 00:01:37,537 We also have another mutual connection, which we'll get into in a little bit, but 29 00:01:37,587 --> 00:01:40,697 there's a chap called Ben Leonard, who has been on the show a couple of times. 30 00:01:40,697 --> 00:01:44,297 Now, Ben Leonard, if you haven't got it already, do check out his book, quick 31 00:01:44,317 --> 00:01:49,702 plug for his book called Quit Stalling and Build Your Brand by Ben Leonard. 32 00:01:49,712 --> 00:01:53,912 It is a great book, just telling you the journey that he went 33 00:01:53,912 --> 00:01:57,172 through in setting up and building an eCommerce business to sell it. 34 00:01:57,492 --> 00:02:00,212 And he gives you all the tips and tricks that are in there so you 35 00:02:00,212 --> 00:02:01,722 can make it work for you as well. 36 00:02:01,752 --> 00:02:04,102 So if you haven't done so already, do check out his book. 37 00:02:04,122 --> 00:02:04,812 Great book. 38 00:02:05,002 --> 00:02:06,332 Very good read. 39 00:02:06,762 --> 00:02:08,172 Lots of practical advice. 40 00:02:09,502 --> 00:02:12,001 And if you look at the picture on his back, I don't know 41 00:02:12,002 --> 00:02:12,942 if you've seen this, Nathan. 42 00:02:12,962 --> 00:02:13,932 Oh, smacking the microphone. 43 00:02:14,242 --> 00:02:17,632 The picture on the back, he looks about 12, but he's genuinely not. 44 00:02:20,732 --> 00:02:21,902 But do check that out. 45 00:02:21,902 --> 00:02:25,242 You don't need an MBA to crush it in eCommerce, it says on the cover. 46 00:02:25,272 --> 00:02:26,392 So do check out. 47 00:02:26,922 --> 00:02:29,642 That now, Nathan, let's talk about Nathan, the entrepreneur 48 00:02:29,652 --> 00:02:35,382 extraordinaire and the brains behind the 12 million success story, freeup. 49 00:02:35,672 --> 00:02:38,562 net started with just 5, 000. 50 00:02:39,472 --> 00:02:43,262 Now today he's rocking the business world with hits like Ecom Balance 51 00:02:43,262 --> 00:02:47,082 and Outsource School alongside his partner, Connor Gillivan. 52 00:02:47,492 --> 00:02:47,862 Now. 53 00:02:48,887 --> 00:02:52,827 He's been on a lot of podcasts, he's done all the social media stuff, but for some 54 00:02:52,827 --> 00:02:57,947 reason he has agreed to come onto our show and share his knowledge and wisdom and 55 00:02:58,957 --> 00:03:00,167 I'm looking forward to the conversation. 56 00:03:00,167 --> 00:03:02,477 Nathan, great to actually finally meet you, how are we doing? 57 00:03:03,432 --> 00:03:04,882 Nathan Hirsch: Matt, I'm doing great. 58 00:03:05,022 --> 00:03:06,862 I'm in tired dad mode. 59 00:03:06,862 --> 00:03:10,822 I don't know if you've been there before or it's just a constant tiredness 60 00:03:11,042 --> 00:03:14,072 that doesn't go away, but it's Monday morning, so I'm feeling pretty good. 61 00:03:15,702 --> 00:03:17,702 Matt Edmundson: Actually, I was just thinking, is it Monday 62 00:03:17,702 --> 00:03:18,454 morning or is it Tuesday? 63 00:03:18,454 --> 00:03:18,618 No, you are raight. 64 00:03:18,618 --> 00:03:18,871 It's Monday evening for me but the time differences. 65 00:03:18,871 --> 00:03:18,918 And I can definitely emphasize tired dad, having 3 kids. 66 00:03:18,918 --> 00:03:18,921 But I think my kids might be slightly different age. 67 00:03:18,921 --> 00:03:18,922 My 2 boys are at uni. 68 00:03:28,707 --> 00:03:36,752 , My daughter's, at college, she's just about to go to university, 69 00:03:36,752 --> 00:03:38,632 maybe, possibly, I don't know what she's going to do. 70 00:03:39,122 --> 00:03:40,912 But yeah, so very different life stage. 71 00:03:40,922 --> 00:03:42,912 So I empathize fully having been there. 72 00:03:43,262 --> 00:03:44,212 How are you finding it? 73 00:03:45,522 --> 00:03:45,872 Nathan Hirsch: It's great. 74 00:03:45,892 --> 00:03:49,622 My, my son's five months old, so I'm still new to all of it. 75 00:03:49,662 --> 00:03:52,442 And we're getting a lot of help from my wife's parents and my parents. 76 00:03:52,442 --> 00:03:52,902 Thank you. 77 00:03:52,902 --> 00:03:54,272 But it's been great. 78 00:03:54,272 --> 00:03:56,091 So I have nothing to complain about at all. 79 00:03:56,652 --> 00:03:57,782 Matt Edmundson: Is this your first child? 80 00:03:58,311 --> 00:03:58,871 Nathan Hirsch: Yeah, it is. 81 00:03:58,872 --> 00:04:00,651 My, my wife and I were foster parents. 82 00:04:00,651 --> 00:04:02,512 We've been fostering teens for a few years. 83 00:04:02,522 --> 00:04:02,711 So we've 84 00:04:02,902 --> 00:04:03,492 Matt Edmundson: Oh, wow. 85 00:04:03,641 --> 00:04:05,351 Nathan Hirsch: but for first bio kid. 86 00:04:05,871 --> 00:04:06,371 Matt Edmundson: Wow. 87 00:04:06,441 --> 00:04:06,821 Wow. 88 00:04:06,961 --> 00:04:07,521 Awesome. 89 00:04:07,561 --> 00:04:08,691 Fostering kids, man. 90 00:04:08,691 --> 00:04:11,741 That's really good friend of mine, a guy called Phil Watson here in Liverpool. 91 00:04:12,201 --> 00:04:14,601 I don't know what his official job title is, but he works for the 92 00:04:14,601 --> 00:04:19,872 council here championing fostering and he does all kinds of crazy 93 00:04:19,881 --> 00:04:21,361 things to champion fostering. 94 00:04:21,921 --> 00:04:24,771 And so I've a lot of respect for him, a lot of respect for what he does and the 95 00:04:24,771 --> 00:04:26,591 kids he brings in are just incredible. 96 00:04:26,591 --> 00:04:28,051 And so well done for doing that. 97 00:04:28,111 --> 00:04:30,131 And teenagers to a five month old. 98 00:04:31,481 --> 00:04:32,581 Nathan Hirsch: It's way different. 99 00:04:32,581 --> 00:04:33,871 It's a whole different experience. 100 00:04:34,821 --> 00:04:35,561 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, no doubt. 101 00:04:35,631 --> 00:04:37,001 Absolutely, no doubt. 102 00:04:37,561 --> 00:04:38,911 Whereabouts in the world are you? 103 00:04:39,881 --> 00:04:41,131 Nathan Hirsch: I'm in Denver, Colorado. 104 00:04:41,231 --> 00:04:43,811 I don't know if you've ever been, but I've lived here for a few years. 105 00:04:43,811 --> 00:04:45,951 It's a place that's tough to beat. 106 00:04:45,961 --> 00:04:47,631 The weather's great, even in the winter. 107 00:04:47,631 --> 00:04:48,771 Lots to do outside. 108 00:04:49,091 --> 00:04:51,471 I've got my whole family to move here, so it's a good spot. 109 00:04:52,131 --> 00:04:55,481 Matt Edmundson: Never actually been to Denver, Colorado, but I've been told, 110 00:04:55,481 --> 00:04:59,821 and you correct me if I'm wrong is it a good place to go ski at Denver, Colorado? 111 00:05:00,386 --> 00:05:02,996 Nathan Hirsch: Yeah, not in Denver, but in Colorado in general you're 112 00:05:02,996 --> 00:05:04,686 always an hour away from something. 113 00:05:04,686 --> 00:05:06,126 Yeah, skiing is great here. 114 00:05:06,126 --> 00:05:08,256 I'm a big snowboarder, so it's fun to get out there. 115 00:05:08,411 --> 00:05:11,132 Matt Edmundson: Okay, you were until you had a five month old baby, right? 116 00:05:11,177 --> 00:05:12,937 Nathan Hirsch: I haven't done much this year for sure. 117 00:05:15,492 --> 00:05:19,352 Matt Edmundson: Can I just say, just a little word of caution, there's been 118 00:05:19,352 --> 00:05:23,262 two times in my life where I've put on quite a significant amount of weight. 119 00:05:23,772 --> 00:05:26,941 The first was when I got married and the second was when 120 00:05:26,941 --> 00:05:28,542 we started having children. 121 00:05:29,822 --> 00:05:32,871 So just because life just takes on a very different season. 122 00:05:32,902 --> 00:05:34,552 Just bear that in mind. 123 00:05:34,602 --> 00:05:35,922 So tell me about EcomBalance. 124 00:05:35,942 --> 00:05:37,702 Tell me about the story behind that. 125 00:05:37,802 --> 00:05:38,132 Nathan Hirsch: Yeah. 126 00:05:38,132 --> 00:05:42,522 You mentioned FreeUp, our company before it, and even going back before that, I 127 00:05:42,522 --> 00:05:46,232 was a 20 year old entrepreneur running this pretty large Amazon business. 128 00:05:46,232 --> 00:05:50,972 I started in 2008, 2009, and I ignored bookkeeping and struggled with it. 129 00:05:51,022 --> 00:05:52,362 I tried doing it myself. 130 00:05:52,362 --> 00:05:54,072 I tried hiring college kids to do it. 131 00:05:54,072 --> 00:05:56,582 I tried dumping it on my CPA at the end of the year. 132 00:05:57,022 --> 00:06:01,482 Never really had a good understanding for what my numbers look like every month. 133 00:06:01,482 --> 00:06:03,112 And it was hard to make decisions. 134 00:06:03,112 --> 00:06:07,302 And fast forward ahead, when we started free up, my partner 135 00:06:07,302 --> 00:06:08,882 and I said, that was crazy. 136 00:06:08,882 --> 00:06:09,862 Let's not do that again. 137 00:06:09,872 --> 00:06:12,312 Let's hire a bookkeeper from day one. 138 00:06:12,332 --> 00:06:15,962 And that ended up being one of the best business decisions we ever made. 139 00:06:15,982 --> 00:06:17,016 Not only did we have. 140 00:06:17,227 --> 00:06:20,777 Immaculate books every single month that we could make decisions on. 141 00:06:20,987 --> 00:06:25,037 But when we went to sell the business four years later, we had clean books going back 142 00:06:25,042 --> 00:06:29,927 to day one, and that helped us pass due diligence and eventually sell the company. 143 00:06:29,927 --> 00:06:34,287 So that kind of gave us the idea of some kind of finance business. 144 00:06:34,292 --> 00:06:35,217 We didn't know what exactly. 145 00:06:36,167 --> 00:06:38,857 But we started consulting with different entrepreneurs, 146 00:06:38,857 --> 00:06:40,137 different eCommerce sellers. 147 00:06:40,377 --> 00:06:44,187 After we sold free up, we quickly learned that we hated being consultant. 148 00:06:44,227 --> 00:06:45,227 So we didn't want to do that. 149 00:06:45,447 --> 00:06:49,367 But the common theme was that everyone just had a mess. 150 00:06:49,367 --> 00:06:52,247 When it came to bookkeeping, no one actually knew what their numbers were, 151 00:06:52,247 --> 00:06:53,937 which made it tough for us to consult. 152 00:06:53,987 --> 00:06:56,757 We had the idea to launch our own eCommerce bookkeeping business. 153 00:06:56,757 --> 00:06:59,907 We actually launched a second non eCommerce brand called Accounts 154 00:06:59,907 --> 00:07:03,927 Balance for agencies and software companies, but all around the fact that 155 00:07:04,567 --> 00:07:06,347 entrepreneurs need to know their numbers. 156 00:07:06,427 --> 00:07:09,157 Most of them hate bookkeeping, they don't speak bookkeeping, and 157 00:07:09,377 --> 00:07:12,067 we've tried to approach it from an entrepreneur's standpoint. 158 00:07:12,532 --> 00:07:15,672 Make it as easy as possible to get numbers you can understand each 159 00:07:15,692 --> 00:07:17,192 month and make decisions on them. 160 00:07:17,792 --> 00:07:18,332 Matt Edmundson: very good. 161 00:07:18,432 --> 00:07:18,952 Very good. 162 00:07:19,222 --> 00:07:22,992 I actually similar, not similar stories, but similar background in a lot of ways. 163 00:07:23,342 --> 00:07:27,032 When I came out of uni one of the things that I, cause my university 164 00:07:27,032 --> 00:07:28,442 degree was accounting and law. 165 00:07:29,222 --> 00:07:32,152 And I came out going, I never ever want to be an accountant, but what 166 00:07:32,152 --> 00:07:35,262 I did do is I set up a side hustle doing bookkeeping for other companies 167 00:07:36,562 --> 00:07:39,652 because I figured no one wanted to do bookkeeping because it's just horrendously 168 00:07:39,652 --> 00:07:41,602 boring, dull, and so on and so forth. 169 00:07:42,282 --> 00:07:44,452 And it turned out I was right, actually. 170 00:07:44,452 --> 00:07:48,942 I don't do the bookkeeping thing anymore, but I've always learned that finance 171 00:07:48,962 --> 00:07:53,952 and understanding the numbers is super, super important for eCommerce companies. 172 00:07:55,992 --> 00:07:58,742 It's intriguing that you've gone almost the opposite way to me. 173 00:07:59,462 --> 00:08:01,682 You've gone, now let's go get into bookkeeping, let's do that. 174 00:08:02,412 --> 00:08:06,122 So to let listeners know and if you're watching this on YouTube, just 175 00:08:06,122 --> 00:08:10,102 letting you know, there is a chance We will be joined by Jared Mitchell 176 00:08:10,562 --> 00:08:16,882 on this show, who is a, who has been a guest previously, on the podcast. 177 00:08:17,012 --> 00:08:18,272 Jared is a good friend of mine. 178 00:08:18,422 --> 00:08:20,362 And also, Jared, right? 179 00:08:20,382 --> 00:08:21,452 You have worked with him. 180 00:08:21,452 --> 00:08:26,012 And so I did that thing when I went to your website, I looked on your 181 00:08:26,012 --> 00:08:27,042 website, and I saw Jared's podcast. 182 00:08:27,042 --> 00:08:29,382 Picture on there, I thought, I'm gonna text Jared and say, Jared, 183 00:08:29,382 --> 00:08:34,032 gimme some really awkward questions to ask Nathan . And he was like, I've 184 00:08:34,032 --> 00:08:35,742 got the best questions for you, man. 185 00:08:35,747 --> 00:08:37,752 So he started texting me a whole bunch of stuff. 186 00:08:38,312 --> 00:08:40,082 And then I said to him why don't you just come join us? 187 00:08:40,082 --> 00:08:41,822 We're doing the recording in 20 minutes. 188 00:08:41,822 --> 00:08:44,812 And hopefully Jared's internet will be working and he'll be joining us soon 189 00:08:44,812 --> 00:08:47,422 just to let you know if a third voice starts appearing in the background. 190 00:08:47,422 --> 00:08:49,162 That is why first time we've ever done it on eCommerce 191 00:08:49,162 --> 00:08:50,662 podcast, we'll see how it goes. 192 00:08:50,812 --> 00:08:55,932 Nathan's game, Jared's game, I'm game, so see how it all, how 193 00:08:55,932 --> 00:08:57,252 did you meet Jared, by the way? 194 00:08:58,252 --> 00:09:01,372 Nathan Hirsch: Yeah, so whenever you start a company, not just eComBalance, this is 195 00:09:01,412 --> 00:09:02,992 going back to free up or outsource school. 196 00:09:02,992 --> 00:09:06,702 You never really know how it's going to go and we have the mentality of 197 00:09:06,982 --> 00:09:08,682 being upfront and honest with clients. 198 00:09:08,682 --> 00:09:12,922 We offer clients either discounts or free months of bookkeeping or whatever it is. 199 00:09:12,922 --> 00:09:16,657 And, In exchange for feedback and allowing us to break everything. 200 00:09:16,657 --> 00:09:20,077 And we try to be upfront and honest that there's going to be processes 201 00:09:20,077 --> 00:09:22,107 that aren't going to work, that we're going to have to build on. 202 00:09:22,107 --> 00:09:25,147 And part of the deal is you're going to get a good price and 203 00:09:25,157 --> 00:09:26,917 some discount or free bookkeeping. 204 00:09:26,917 --> 00:09:28,717 And in exchange, we want feedback. 205 00:09:28,747 --> 00:09:31,067 We want to know everything you like, everything you hate. 206 00:09:31,342 --> 00:09:35,362 What's working, what doesn't work and we'll use that to build our team. 207 00:09:35,362 --> 00:09:38,132 So Jared was looking for a bookkeeper at the time. 208 00:09:38,602 --> 00:09:42,222 He was nice enough to be one of our first beta clients, definitely 209 00:09:42,222 --> 00:09:43,692 went through some growing pains. 210 00:09:43,712 --> 00:09:46,372 Nothing too crazy, but just us figuring out. 211 00:09:46,907 --> 00:09:47,717 Who's our team? 212 00:09:47,727 --> 00:09:48,837 What are our processes? 213 00:09:48,837 --> 00:09:50,317 What are our communication channels? 214 00:09:50,317 --> 00:09:51,707 And I'm not a bookkeeper. 215 00:09:51,717 --> 00:09:53,297 My business partner's not a bookkeeper. 216 00:09:53,467 --> 00:09:56,397 To run a bookkeeping business, we had to hire a lot of bookkeepers, 217 00:09:56,397 --> 00:09:59,667 hire a controller and everything that, that goes with that. 218 00:09:59,677 --> 00:10:03,307 So a whole adventure that was a lot of fun, a lot of hard work. 219 00:10:03,307 --> 00:10:06,177 And Jared was nice enough to give us feedback and bear with 220 00:10:06,177 --> 00:10:07,517 us through those growing pains. 221 00:10:07,517 --> 00:10:10,742 And now, hopefully, it says we're have this under control and have 222 00:10:10,742 --> 00:10:14,222 a good monthly process, but there was definitely some element of us 223 00:10:14,272 --> 00:10:16,062 figuring stuff out in the early days. 224 00:10:16,422 --> 00:10:17,032 Matt Edmundson: Fantastic. 225 00:10:17,032 --> 00:10:17,582 Here he is. 226 00:10:17,582 --> 00:10:19,032 Let's see if I can pull him in here. 227 00:10:19,652 --> 00:10:23,532 Let's just add him to the guest list. 228 00:10:23,532 --> 00:10:25,292 No, let me assign him that. 229 00:10:25,342 --> 00:10:25,992 There we go. 230 00:10:27,662 --> 00:10:28,402 Let's go on here. 231 00:10:28,402 --> 00:10:29,422 Here he is. 232 00:10:30,002 --> 00:10:30,632 Man of the hour. 233 00:10:30,662 --> 00:10:30,962 Mr. 234 00:10:30,962 --> 00:10:32,222 Mitchell, how are you doing? 235 00:10:33,572 --> 00:10:35,032 Jared Mitchell: Hey, what's up, Matt? 236 00:10:35,032 --> 00:10:35,262 Good. 237 00:10:35,262 --> 00:10:35,902 How are you? 238 00:10:36,107 --> 00:10:37,117 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, really good. 239 00:10:37,237 --> 00:10:37,987 Yeah really good. 240 00:10:37,997 --> 00:10:40,697 There's three of us on screen now, which is, like I say, first time 241 00:10:40,697 --> 00:10:42,797 ever for the eCommerce Podcast. 242 00:10:42,797 --> 00:10:43,737 Super excited. 243 00:10:44,187 --> 00:10:45,277 So thanks for joining us, Jared. 244 00:10:46,312 --> 00:10:46,712 Jared Mitchell: Yeah. 245 00:10:46,712 --> 00:10:47,692 Thanks for having me, man. 246 00:10:47,692 --> 00:10:48,192 I'm honored. 247 00:10:48,627 --> 00:10:49,377 Matt Edmundson: I know, it's great. 248 00:10:50,417 --> 00:10:53,717 I was saying to Nathan, when I saw that you were on your beautiful face was on 249 00:10:53,717 --> 00:10:57,387 his website, I thought we've got to do something together and and just grill him. 250 00:10:57,647 --> 00:10:58,257 Why not? 251 00:10:58,387 --> 00:10:59,317 And Nathan's up for it. 252 00:11:00,222 --> 00:11:01,752 Nathan Hirsch: Yeah, Jared, great to meet you. 253 00:11:01,792 --> 00:11:04,322 I actually don't see you on screen, so I've never actually 254 00:11:04,332 --> 00:11:05,432 done a video call with you. 255 00:11:05,432 --> 00:11:07,982 I don't really know what you look like outside of your picture, 256 00:11:07,982 --> 00:11:09,372 but great to hear from you. 257 00:11:10,032 --> 00:11:11,822 Jared Mitchell: Prepare to be disappointed, my friend. 258 00:11:16,422 --> 00:11:18,442 Matt Edmundson: So you guys have never actually seen each other, you've 259 00:11:18,442 --> 00:11:20,692 worked together all this time but you've never actually seen each other. 260 00:11:21,532 --> 00:11:23,722 Nathan Hirsch: Yeah, I've done a bunch of calls and stuff, but I don't think 261 00:11:23,722 --> 00:11:25,092 we've ever done a Zoom or anything. 262 00:11:25,652 --> 00:11:26,082 Matt Edmundson: Wow. 263 00:11:26,582 --> 00:11:30,362 Jared Mitchell: Yeah, I've only cyber stalked, social media stalked Nathan. 264 00:11:30,372 --> 00:11:31,392 So that's about it. 265 00:11:32,122 --> 00:11:32,862 Nathan Hirsch: Sounds about right. 266 00:11:33,402 --> 00:11:33,602 Jared Mitchell: Yeah. 267 00:11:33,692 --> 00:11:34,142 Matt Edmundson: Wow. 268 00:11:34,362 --> 00:11:34,762 Wow. 269 00:11:35,392 --> 00:11:37,402 Mr Mitchell, how's life in California? 270 00:11:38,502 --> 00:11:41,412 Jared Mitchell: It is rainy and the reason I say it like that 271 00:11:41,412 --> 00:11:42,732 is because it never rains here. 272 00:11:42,792 --> 00:11:44,802 And so it's something I should talk about. 273 00:11:47,422 --> 00:11:49,282 Matt Edmundson: I just feel the need to offload, it's raining, 274 00:11:49,282 --> 00:11:50,277 I don't know what to do. 275 00:11:50,662 --> 00:11:50,902 Jared Mitchell: Yeah. 276 00:11:50,902 --> 00:11:51,892 No one knows what to do. 277 00:11:51,962 --> 00:11:53,072 It's a big deal. 278 00:11:53,102 --> 00:11:55,212 So yeah, man, I'm doing really well. 279 00:11:55,222 --> 00:11:55,962 How about you guys? 280 00:11:57,912 --> 00:11:58,482 Nathan Hirsch: Life's good. 281 00:11:58,482 --> 00:12:00,502 I was telling Matt, I'm in tired dad mode. 282 00:12:00,502 --> 00:12:04,712 My son's five months old and just trying to learn how to be a dad and 283 00:12:04,912 --> 00:12:08,172 wake up six times throughout the night and still work the next day. 284 00:12:08,172 --> 00:12:09,882 But it's tough to complain. 285 00:12:12,387 --> 00:12:13,837 Matt Edmundson: It's tough, it's very tough to complain. 286 00:12:14,127 --> 00:12:17,127 And let me tell you, it gets better and better, Nathan, it does I think, 287 00:12:17,447 --> 00:12:18,487 going through the different ages. 288 00:12:18,487 --> 00:12:21,157 Although this is not a show about parenting, but it does get better 289 00:12:21,157 --> 00:12:22,207 and better without a doubt. 290 00:12:22,907 --> 00:12:26,937 Jared, Nathan was saying that you were one of his early guinea pigs 291 00:12:27,267 --> 00:12:29,147 and you're very gracious with him. 292 00:12:29,557 --> 00:12:32,837 I'm curious, why don't I turn the floor over to you a little bit? 293 00:12:33,372 --> 00:12:36,622 Bearing in mind, people who are listening to the podcast are going to be going 294 00:12:37,512 --> 00:12:41,692 I'm in Ecommerce, some of them will have bookkeeping and accounting sorted out, 295 00:12:41,742 --> 00:12:44,312 quite a lot of them won't, and it'll just be one of those annual things, 296 00:12:44,322 --> 00:12:49,562 so let's get into, I guess, why this matters, why it's going to help people 297 00:12:49,572 --> 00:12:52,002 and maybe ask some questions around that. 298 00:12:52,052 --> 00:12:53,912 I don't know if you've got anything top of mind, Mr. 299 00:12:53,912 --> 00:12:55,342 Mitchell, that you can throw in? 300 00:12:56,012 --> 00:12:58,162 Jared Mitchell: Questions or answers to what you just said? 301 00:12:58,792 --> 00:13:00,392 Matt Edmundson: Let me, that's actually a good point, actually. 302 00:13:00,392 --> 00:13:03,952 Why did you go to someone like Nathan for bookkeeping? 303 00:13:03,952 --> 00:13:05,732 What was it you were missing, do you think? 304 00:13:05,732 --> 00:13:08,372 I 305 00:13:08,382 --> 00:13:10,792 Jared Mitchell: is I've been in Ecommerce for about 20 years. 306 00:13:10,822 --> 00:13:14,422 And when I started the only thing available for bookkeeping was like the 307 00:13:14,942 --> 00:13:19,922 discs or CDs that you put in computers and download QuickBooks to your computer. 308 00:13:21,572 --> 00:13:27,492 And I am not an accounting finance mind, but I know enough about it to 309 00:13:27,492 --> 00:13:29,712 understand it and hire the right people. 310 00:13:29,772 --> 00:13:34,352 So with those deep disclaimers I think I came across Nathan. 311 00:13:34,717 --> 00:13:36,957 Through you, Matt, I could be mistaken. 312 00:13:37,537 --> 00:13:43,677 And this was in a time when we had been on NetSuite and had a very bumpy ride. 313 00:13:44,227 --> 00:13:48,257 And I actually, when I dug into it, my accountant wasn't even 314 00:13:48,257 --> 00:13:49,677 using NetSuite for accounting. 315 00:13:50,007 --> 00:13:51,307 I was paying for it, but they weren't. 316 00:13:51,577 --> 00:13:56,097 NetSuite provides accounting and like IMS ERP stuff if you want to pay for it. 317 00:13:56,717 --> 00:14:01,377 And once I found that out I started looking around for new IMS ERP systems 318 00:14:01,707 --> 00:14:06,497 and also for new I guess accountants or CPAs to help us run our books. 319 00:14:06,682 --> 00:14:07,032 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 320 00:14:07,822 --> 00:14:08,712 And so you came across that. 321 00:14:08,722 --> 00:14:09,622 I don't know if it was from me. 322 00:14:09,642 --> 00:14:10,192 Maybe it was. 323 00:14:10,192 --> 00:14:10,502 I don't know. 324 00:14:10,522 --> 00:14:11,322 When was this? 325 00:14:14,107 --> 00:14:16,607 Jared Mitchell: Gosh, I want to say it was when you had me 326 00:14:16,607 --> 00:14:18,617 on as a guest on your show. 327 00:14:18,892 --> 00:14:23,542 Yeah you just were like, hey, check this guy out and Nathan, you were one of the 328 00:14:23,542 --> 00:14:29,932 maybe three or four firms at the time that I checked out and I wasn't familiar with 329 00:14:30,222 --> 00:14:36,582 what you guys do, how you're structured, competitors, your space and something 330 00:14:36,582 --> 00:14:43,042 I did after is I actually reached out after I hired Nate, I reached out to 331 00:14:43,377 --> 00:14:48,907 probably 10 to 15 of his competitors, not only to learn more, but just to 332 00:14:48,907 --> 00:14:54,387 make sure I was in the right hands and I had the right systems and all of that. 333 00:14:55,332 --> 00:14:57,252 Matt Edmundson: Oh, this is a great testimony for you, Mr. 334 00:14:57,252 --> 00:14:57,922 Nathan Hirsch. 335 00:14:57,942 --> 00:15:02,982 This, you stood up to the 15 people that he was checking you out against. 336 00:15:04,012 --> 00:15:05,152 Nathan Hirsch: Yeah, I appreciate it. 337 00:15:05,152 --> 00:15:08,092 Like I was telling you before Jared came on, we're grateful to anyone 338 00:15:08,092 --> 00:15:10,762 that gives any of our companies a chance when they're young. 339 00:15:10,762 --> 00:15:11,612 Business is hard. 340 00:15:11,612 --> 00:15:15,262 Trusting someone who's not a bookkeeper, I'm not a bookkeeper, is even harder. 341 00:15:15,262 --> 00:15:18,882 And just for someone to give you that trust when you're in year one, or even 342 00:15:18,882 --> 00:15:22,812 the first six months of a business, you want to do your best to make good on 343 00:15:22,812 --> 00:15:26,092 that trust and give a good experience and treat them well going forward. 344 00:15:27,042 --> 00:15:27,452 Matt Edmundson: Totally. 345 00:15:27,452 --> 00:15:28,302 So let's get into this. 346 00:15:28,302 --> 00:15:31,972 So you've got companies that come join you, right? 347 00:15:32,022 --> 00:15:32,482 Yeah. 348 00:15:33,312 --> 00:15:38,642 Does it make sense for somebody who is just starting out in Ecommerce to 349 00:15:38,662 --> 00:15:42,292 think about bookkeeping from day one, to maybe talk to somebody like you 350 00:15:42,292 --> 00:15:46,262 from day one, or is it something that I can think of six months down the 351 00:15:46,262 --> 00:15:47,952 line when I've got proof of concept? 352 00:15:49,142 --> 00:15:51,642 Nathan Hirsch: My mentality for any business we start is we don't 353 00:15:51,642 --> 00:15:54,672 start a business unless we're hiring a bookkeeper from day one. 354 00:15:54,682 --> 00:15:57,402 Even if the business is gonna fail down the line, unless you're 355 00:15:57,402 --> 00:16:00,762 a bigger company like Jared, bookkeeping is relatively cheap. 356 00:16:00,772 --> 00:16:03,892 You're not gonna go out of business because of your bookkeeping expense. 357 00:16:04,132 --> 00:16:06,752 You will go out of business if you don't understand your numbers and 358 00:16:06,752 --> 00:16:10,062 you're making bad decisions based on what the numbers are telling you. 359 00:16:10,112 --> 00:16:13,212 I think veteran entrepreneurs know that, hey, if I'm starting a 360 00:16:13,232 --> 00:16:16,262 business, even if it's a startup, I'm going to hire a bookkeeper. 361 00:16:16,272 --> 00:16:19,662 I think rookie entrepreneurs, they think, Oh, I'll do it myself for 362 00:16:19,662 --> 00:16:22,802 the first six months or I'll ignore it for the first year and I can 363 00:16:22,802 --> 00:16:24,492 always go back and do it later. 364 00:16:24,492 --> 00:16:26,502 And I would strongly argue against that. 365 00:16:26,942 --> 00:16:27,292 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 366 00:16:27,992 --> 00:16:28,502 Fair play. 367 00:16:28,582 --> 00:16:29,582 I totally agree. 368 00:16:30,002 --> 00:16:35,142 I guess what, if you are starting out in Ecommerce, what would I 369 00:16:35,142 --> 00:16:38,592 appreciate, I need to know the numbers, but what numbers is it specifically 370 00:16:38,592 --> 00:16:40,002 that I really should be looking at? 371 00:16:41,417 --> 00:16:42,597 Nathan Hirsch: Yeah, it's a tough question. 372 00:16:42,597 --> 00:16:44,457 It's different for every single business. 373 00:16:44,457 --> 00:16:47,367 Obviously understanding your sales and what fees. 374 00:16:47,602 --> 00:16:50,462 For each marketplace you're selling on, what that actually looks like. 375 00:16:50,462 --> 00:16:53,132 I think we live in an era of vanity metrics, right? 376 00:16:53,132 --> 00:16:55,912 There's a lot of seven, eight figure sellers out there, but it 377 00:16:55,912 --> 00:16:57,672 doesn't tell the full picture. 378 00:16:57,672 --> 00:17:01,342 So understanding your fees, understanding your cogs what you're 379 00:17:01,342 --> 00:17:03,122 actually making per platform. 380 00:17:03,122 --> 00:17:06,512 A lot of people will be wasting their time on platforms that actually aren't 381 00:17:06,522 --> 00:17:10,142 making them money or where they could just be doubling down on what's working. 382 00:17:10,142 --> 00:17:12,322 But then you dig into, okay, you've got. 383 00:17:12,592 --> 00:17:15,292 Private label sellers, you got wholesalers, you got people who 384 00:17:15,292 --> 00:17:18,212 are just Amazon, you got people who are spreading out across different 385 00:17:18,442 --> 00:17:20,342 Amazon platforms and marketplaces. 386 00:17:20,342 --> 00:17:23,872 And that's where it can get a little bit more company specific with the 387 00:17:23,872 --> 00:17:28,102 numbers that Jared cares about might not be the exact numbers that a smaller. 388 00:17:28,522 --> 00:17:31,232 more isolated seller cares about. 389 00:17:31,362 --> 00:17:31,652 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 390 00:17:32,282 --> 00:17:37,162 That's a very good point, but I think it's, I think one of the things that I've 391 00:17:37,162 --> 00:17:39,442 observed with eCommerce businesses is 392 00:17:39,587 --> 00:17:40,449 Nathan Hirsch: Podcast, 393 00:17:40,807 --> 00:17:43,127 Matt Edmundson: There are a lot of these vanity, I love this phrase, vanity 394 00:17:43,127 --> 00:17:47,537 metrics that you mentioned, the metrics that we like to chase, but actually 395 00:17:47,537 --> 00:17:50,687 don't really make a whole big deal of difference to our company and not 396 00:17:50,697 --> 00:17:52,367 really should spend a lot of time on. 397 00:17:53,157 --> 00:17:57,877 What are you, what's your experience in some of the vanity metrics 398 00:17:57,877 --> 00:17:59,287 that people get caught up in? 399 00:17:59,837 --> 00:18:04,067 Nathan Hirsch: If you can get that 20 30 percent margin opposed to that seller 400 00:18:04,067 --> 00:18:08,097 that's in that 1 5 percent margin that makes all the difference in the world. 401 00:18:08,097 --> 00:18:11,817 And then where are you spending that money on and looking at it every single month? 402 00:18:11,817 --> 00:18:13,357 Are there expenses that I can cut? 403 00:18:13,387 --> 00:18:15,157 Can I really hire more people? 404 00:18:15,287 --> 00:18:17,167 How do I lower the cost of products? 405 00:18:17,167 --> 00:18:19,557 These are the questions you got to be asking yourself as 406 00:18:19,557 --> 00:18:21,337 Amazon cracks down on margins. 407 00:18:21,337 --> 00:18:25,587 I know when I was an Amazon seller, I had products that I was making 35 40%. 408 00:18:25,687 --> 00:18:28,377 Net margins on which is just unheard of nowadays. 409 00:18:28,557 --> 00:18:31,217 But yeah, that's what you really have to care about. 410 00:18:31,217 --> 00:18:32,447 I'm curious, Jared's thoughts. 411 00:18:34,402 --> 00:18:37,952 Jared Mitchell: Yeah, I think for us, and this is a really important question 412 00:18:37,962 --> 00:18:43,232 for us, because if you're listening to this and you're like me, and you're an 413 00:18:43,242 --> 00:18:49,162 entrepreneur that has more of a marketing mind, this conversation that we're having 414 00:18:49,162 --> 00:18:53,462 right now is something that's probably not a priority for you or on the back burner. 415 00:18:53,522 --> 00:18:56,272 And the reason why I'm saying that is because that's how 416 00:18:56,272 --> 00:18:58,142 it was for me for 15 years. 417 00:18:58,682 --> 00:19:03,562 Number one, because the systems didn't really exist 10 to 15 years 418 00:19:03,562 --> 00:19:07,242 ago, like they do now to support all these metrics and these important 419 00:19:07,242 --> 00:19:09,212 ratios and to have them at hand. 420 00:19:09,937 --> 00:19:12,927 But number two, because it's not your default, right? 421 00:19:13,357 --> 00:19:19,637 But for us, what I've had to discover the hard way is which systems I think 422 00:19:19,747 --> 00:19:24,687 have the best bang for their buck and which ratios work best for us. 423 00:19:25,107 --> 00:19:26,477 For us, we pay. 424 00:19:26,837 --> 00:19:31,877 Really focused attention around CPA and not only that, but from which 425 00:19:31,887 --> 00:19:35,837 channels we're getting the best bang for our buck through marketing. 426 00:19:36,277 --> 00:19:40,787 And then we tie it back into inventory and we have a very close understanding 427 00:19:40,827 --> 00:19:47,692 of how much that inventory costs us to let everyone know we have around 15, 000 428 00:19:47,772 --> 00:19:53,902 active SKUs, the reason I mention that is because this is not I guess when I did 429 00:19:53,902 --> 00:20:00,272 consulting in the past for Neil Patel, we did like thousands of websites, most 430 00:20:00,272 --> 00:20:05,372 of them, the SKU count was like in the hundreds, so if we're not really careful, 431 00:20:05,382 --> 00:20:09,272 we're not about these metrics and about keeping an eye on our inventory and our 432 00:20:09,272 --> 00:20:15,392 margins, we will start spinning our wheels in an area of advertising really fast. 433 00:20:15,852 --> 00:20:18,682 And that does nothing but waste everybody's time. 434 00:20:19,702 --> 00:20:20,032 Matt Edmundson: Very good. 435 00:20:20,342 --> 00:20:23,572 Just explain what you mean, Jared, when you say things like CPA, 436 00:20:23,592 --> 00:20:24,332 for those that might not know. 437 00:20:26,182 --> 00:20:29,212 Jared Mitchell: Cost per acquisition, like how much it costs for you 438 00:20:29,242 --> 00:20:31,192 ultimately to get a customer. 439 00:20:31,432 --> 00:20:35,662 But not only that, breaking it down to how much the fulfillment costs you 440 00:20:36,012 --> 00:20:39,852 coming in through your door if you do your own fulfillment out the door, or 441 00:20:39,882 --> 00:20:41,522 even if you use a fulfillment center. 442 00:20:41,897 --> 00:20:44,877 And how long it takes as well, because there's a cost to that. 443 00:20:46,572 --> 00:20:47,232 Matt Edmundson: Very good. 444 00:20:47,582 --> 00:20:48,872 You want to come in on that, Nathan? 445 00:20:50,097 --> 00:20:52,087 Nathan Hirsch: Yeah, I think something that I've just seen Jared 446 00:20:52,107 --> 00:20:56,077 do a good job of over the past few years is adjusting systems. 447 00:20:56,077 --> 00:20:59,307 If he doesn't feel like it's spitting the right information out. 448 00:20:59,307 --> 00:21:02,177 I know you just change inventory systems because we weren't 449 00:21:02,187 --> 00:21:03,387 getting the correct information. 450 00:21:03,387 --> 00:21:06,627 Cogs, which cost of goods, which is obviously incredibly important 451 00:21:06,627 --> 00:21:07,887 if you want to know your margins. 452 00:21:07,887 --> 00:21:11,137 And the thing about inventory systems is there's a bunch out there. 453 00:21:11,167 --> 00:21:13,177 Everyone loves and hates every single one. 454 00:21:13,177 --> 00:21:16,027 And the ones that the ones that are out there that they just don't 455 00:21:16,027 --> 00:21:17,587 fit every single business model. 456 00:21:17,592 --> 00:21:21,607 So I've seen clients switch two or three times before they find one that really 457 00:21:21,607 --> 00:21:23,317 works for them to get accurate numbers. 458 00:21:23,317 --> 00:21:25,962 But Jared, I don't know how much we want to go into Jared's business 459 00:21:25,962 --> 00:21:29,512 personally, but switched over to a different inventory software to, to 460 00:21:29,512 --> 00:21:32,152 get better numbers, which is only gonna make the books more accurate. 461 00:21:32,157 --> 00:21:35,152 You've probably heard the fa phrase, like garbage in, garbage out. 462 00:21:35,157 --> 00:21:38,062 The bookkeepers are only as good as the numbers that, that they're getting. 463 00:21:38,067 --> 00:21:42,282 And even though I know it was a pretty big move for Jared's business and his internal 464 00:21:42,282 --> 00:21:46,272 team and lots of hours and time were spent, not only doing the research but 465 00:21:46,272 --> 00:21:47,952 actually switching over to that company. 466 00:21:48,412 --> 00:21:50,882 At the end of the day, if you're getting more accurate numbers, 467 00:21:51,052 --> 00:21:51,952 it makes it all worth it. 468 00:21:53,397 --> 00:21:54,507 Matt Edmundson: That's really interesting, isn't it? 469 00:21:54,507 --> 00:21:57,337 Because I'm just thinking of my own eCommerce businesses, and 470 00:21:57,337 --> 00:22:00,787 we've got a lady who manages the operations director of operations. 471 00:22:00,787 --> 00:22:01,477 She's called Michelle. 472 00:22:01,477 --> 00:22:02,377 She's a beautiful lady. 473 00:22:03,107 --> 00:22:07,637 If I even thought about suggesting to her that she changed our accounting 474 00:22:07,637 --> 00:22:12,927 software from say, sage to zero, she would slap me upside the head because there's 475 00:22:12,927 --> 00:22:17,007 just no way she's got it into her head in the sense that this is what we use. 476 00:22:17,007 --> 00:22:19,647 I know the system, it gives me the right data that I need. 477 00:22:20,277 --> 00:22:24,657 But actually for you, Jared, then move in systems, how big of a decision was that? 478 00:22:24,662 --> 00:22:25,992 Jared Mitchell: Oh, it was massive. 479 00:22:26,082 --> 00:22:31,942 I want to say, cause we had moved platforms from Magento to Shopify the year 480 00:22:31,942 --> 00:22:34,002 before, and that was a long time coming. 481 00:22:34,002 --> 00:22:38,222 I really wanted to wait until Shopify could prove to me that they could handle 482 00:22:38,492 --> 00:22:41,462 a vendor that had over 10, 000 SKUs. 483 00:22:41,462 --> 00:22:44,092 And so I waited a long time and then. 484 00:22:44,317 --> 00:22:47,527 It just became a no brainer because there were so many vendors that had 485 00:22:47,527 --> 00:22:50,957 successfully, I don't like being a test dummy, so successfully put their 486 00:22:51,487 --> 00:22:53,227 store on Shopify and had no issues. 487 00:22:53,257 --> 00:22:58,207 And so I moved to Shopify and it's been night and day better for us than Magento. 488 00:22:58,227 --> 00:23:00,547 And I would venture to say it would be better for anyone 489 00:23:00,587 --> 00:23:02,007 than Magento, quite honestly. 490 00:23:02,017 --> 00:23:04,207 So after we did that yeah. 491 00:23:04,747 --> 00:23:05,577 That's my opinion. 492 00:23:05,627 --> 00:23:11,517 And after we did that, that opened the door for us to work with almost 493 00:23:11,667 --> 00:23:17,077 any IMS, Inventory Management System, or ERP that we wanted to. 494 00:23:17,737 --> 00:23:22,327 So like I did with the accounting thing that I mentioned about Nate I did 495 00:23:22,327 --> 00:23:25,967 the same thing with IMS ERP systems. 496 00:23:26,307 --> 00:23:30,247 And just to give everybody a history of the ones that we have tried, 497 00:23:30,637 --> 00:23:35,147 we started out with a company called Didacom, mail order manager. 498 00:23:35,147 --> 00:23:40,667 I want to say that was about 15, 17 years ago, used them with some success. 499 00:23:41,202 --> 00:23:46,412 We used a company called Stitch Labs for a while, and we used them with some success. 500 00:23:46,812 --> 00:23:50,822 And then we heard everybody raving about NetSuite, so we moved over to NetSuite, 501 00:23:51,182 --> 00:23:53,342 and we used them with some success. 502 00:23:53,832 --> 00:23:58,402 But we felt like we were paying way too much for our accountants, we were paying 503 00:23:58,412 --> 00:24:02,852 way too much for the system, and we weren't able to make it work for us, and 504 00:24:02,852 --> 00:24:04,732 their support wouldn't really help us. 505 00:24:04,872 --> 00:24:07,372 We just felt like we were too small of a company for them. 506 00:24:07,842 --> 00:24:09,687 And I think we were. 507 00:24:10,097 --> 00:24:17,287 So after researching like 15 of these systems which took probably a month 508 00:24:17,287 --> 00:24:18,837 or two of, you know how you do it. 509 00:24:18,837 --> 00:24:21,967 You get on the phone, you make the calls, you talk the talk, you're 510 00:24:21,967 --> 00:24:23,937 talking to sales, you ask the questions. 511 00:24:24,257 --> 00:24:27,317 I get a big list of questions then I keep adding to the questions. 512 00:24:27,557 --> 00:24:31,677 I go back and forth and now I'm like, I learned the lingo and like I've 513 00:24:31,677 --> 00:24:37,727 learned about the space and we settled on a company called Finale inventory. 514 00:24:38,237 --> 00:24:42,657 And I cannot sing their praises highly enough. 515 00:24:42,757 --> 00:24:44,587 Like I'm not on their payroll. 516 00:24:44,627 --> 00:24:45,037 Like 517 00:24:45,327 --> 00:24:46,947 Matt Edmundson: should set an affiliate link up, maybe. 518 00:24:48,397 --> 00:24:50,027 Jared Mitchell: their support's amazing. 519 00:24:50,067 --> 00:24:56,177 I gotta tell you, we're paying around five to 10 grand a month for a NetSuite. 520 00:24:56,797 --> 00:25:01,407 We're paying about 500 a month for Finale and it's a way better 521 00:25:01,407 --> 00:25:02,677 system for us, in my opinion. 522 00:25:03,197 --> 00:25:05,307 Matt Edmundson: Oh, wow, that's a hell of a saving, isn't it? 523 00:25:05,787 --> 00:25:07,537 Jeez, that's a lot of money saved every 524 00:25:07,777 --> 00:25:10,107 Jared Mitchell: it paid my, it paid for my entire rent. 525 00:25:10,117 --> 00:25:14,027 We just expanded our facility and it literally, I was like instead 526 00:25:14,027 --> 00:25:15,407 of paying that, let's expand. 527 00:25:15,957 --> 00:25:19,077 Matt Edmundson: Nathan, do you get when people like Jared come along 528 00:25:19,087 --> 00:25:21,627 and say, I'm changing systems, dude. 529 00:25:22,187 --> 00:25:23,327 Do you get nervous? 530 00:25:23,397 --> 00:25:25,907 Or are you like, no, let's do it. 531 00:25:25,907 --> 00:25:27,847 Let's go for this because I think you probably should. 532 00:25:28,462 --> 00:25:32,502 Nathan Hirsch: Not so much nervous, and I definitely don't put my opinion in 533 00:25:32,512 --> 00:25:33,912 whether you should or shouldn't do it. 534 00:25:33,912 --> 00:25:35,242 That's more of a business decision. 535 00:25:35,742 --> 00:25:40,392 For my side, in the best possible scenario, you do a clean cutoff, right? 536 00:25:40,412 --> 00:25:44,462 Even if you're switching from QuickBooks to Xero, you do it January 1st, and it 537 00:25:44,462 --> 00:25:46,182 just makes everything easier for everyone. 538 00:25:46,192 --> 00:25:49,882 In a more realistic situation, that rarely happens. 539 00:25:50,052 --> 00:25:54,157 There's always nothing ever works in the exact timing that you want it to. 540 00:25:54,157 --> 00:25:57,017 And especially when you get to bigger and bigger businesses, 541 00:25:57,067 --> 00:26:00,637 you don't want a situation where past books are done incorrectly. 542 00:26:00,687 --> 00:26:04,377 If you're in year two of your business and year one is okay, somewhat 543 00:26:04,387 --> 00:26:07,097 accurate numbers, but you're pretty small, you could probably get away 544 00:26:07,097 --> 00:26:10,637 with your CPA, filing your taxes and just being right going forward. 545 00:26:10,637 --> 00:26:13,587 And five years later, no one's going to care about that initial first year. 546 00:26:13,797 --> 00:26:16,347 And Jared's situation doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense. 547 00:26:16,407 --> 00:26:20,252 From there, it's setting realistic expectations and hopefully Jared 548 00:26:20,252 --> 00:26:23,822 feels this way of how long it'll actually take for us to go backwards 549 00:26:23,827 --> 00:26:27,467 and fix it and how much that'll cost it and how much time it'll take. 550 00:26:27,657 --> 00:26:30,687 But yeah, Jared knew what he was doing and knew what he wanted to do it. 551 00:26:30,837 --> 00:26:33,477 There was no talking him out of it or anything like that. 552 00:26:33,477 --> 00:26:34,527 We wouldn't do that anyway. 553 00:26:34,687 --> 00:26:38,547 But yeah, it's more of what makes the most sense of in terms of time 554 00:26:38,547 --> 00:26:40,012 and how far back do you want to go? 555 00:26:40,012 --> 00:26:41,062 What you wanna avoid is. 556 00:26:41,317 --> 00:26:43,447 Every time we switch something, we've got to go back five 557 00:26:43,447 --> 00:26:44,707 years and change everything. 558 00:26:44,897 --> 00:26:47,027 That becomes unrealistic pretty quickly. 559 00:26:47,702 --> 00:26:49,012 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, top tips there. 560 00:26:49,652 --> 00:26:53,412 Nathan, I guess this leads me on to actually a question which 561 00:26:53,412 --> 00:26:56,052 you text me, Jared, when I said, gee, I'm talking to Nathan. 562 00:26:56,072 --> 00:26:58,622 Give me some questions to ask him before we agreed that you're 563 00:26:58,622 --> 00:26:59,382 going to come on the show. 564 00:27:00,042 --> 00:27:01,342 And I thought this was a great question. 565 00:27:01,342 --> 00:27:04,737 So talking about changing software or moving to suppliers or vendors. 566 00:27:05,357 --> 00:27:08,507 What are, Nathan, some of the most important questions 567 00:27:08,507 --> 00:27:10,387 a company needs to ask? 568 00:27:10,437 --> 00:27:13,727 What needs to be on the question list, Jared's sort of checklist of 569 00:27:13,727 --> 00:27:17,287 questions when he's on the phone, to make sure that a company like, 570 00:27:17,337 --> 00:27:20,347 say, eComBalance, when you're talking like financing, bookkeeping. 571 00:27:20,772 --> 00:27:21,542 Accounting. 572 00:27:21,742 --> 00:27:23,942 What are some of the questions that maybe I would need to ask 573 00:27:23,962 --> 00:27:25,222 to make sure we're a good fit? 574 00:27:25,222 --> 00:27:28,132 Yeah, 575 00:27:28,192 --> 00:27:32,102 Nathan Hirsch: software, if we're, we only use QuickBooks and Xero, if you're 576 00:27:32,102 --> 00:27:35,862 using a bookkeeper that has a lot of experience with QuickBooks or vice 577 00:27:35,862 --> 00:27:39,502 versa Xero and you're on the other one that could be a pretty big red flag and 578 00:27:39,612 --> 00:27:42,842 Jared said in a common theme through all of this is you don't necessarily want 579 00:27:42,842 --> 00:27:46,182 to be someone's guinea pig if they've been using QuickBooks for 30 years, you 580 00:27:46,182 --> 00:27:50,302 don't want to have them be your First first zero client or, and from there 581 00:27:50,442 --> 00:27:53,712 just Ecommerce in general, you'll see a lot of local bookkeepers that have 582 00:27:53,712 --> 00:27:57,552 no idea what Ecommerce is or how to do the bookkeeping for it, and they'll 583 00:27:57,552 --> 00:27:59,112 probably say that they could do it. 584 00:27:59,112 --> 00:28:02,292 And do you really wanna be someone's first e-commerce client? 585 00:28:02,342 --> 00:28:06,912 Asking questions around that and what connecting tool you use would you like A2X 586 00:28:06,912 --> 00:28:12,272 and link my books in terms of connecting from the marketplaces to QuickBooks or 2. 587 00:28:12,272 --> 00:28:12,752 0? 588 00:28:12,752 --> 00:28:15,552 A pretty good way to tell whether someone knows eCommerce is if they're 589 00:28:15,552 --> 00:28:18,927 using a connecting tool, if they're A partner of that connecting tool 590 00:28:19,067 --> 00:28:20,807 like we're gold partners with both. 591 00:28:20,807 --> 00:28:25,567 So a lot of people that don't understand eCommerce, they're either going to try 592 00:28:25,567 --> 00:28:29,067 to connect Amazon directly to QuickBooks, which won't work very well, or they're 593 00:28:29,067 --> 00:28:32,937 just going to take the money deposited into your bank account and put that 594 00:28:32,937 --> 00:28:36,537 as a top line of income statement, which your CPA is not going to like. 595 00:28:36,537 --> 00:28:37,427 That's incorrect. 596 00:28:37,947 --> 00:28:41,637 Some quick ways to just see if they understand eCommerce bookkeeping. 597 00:28:41,967 --> 00:28:45,837 And the next thing, and hopefully Jared thinks we do a good job here is just 598 00:28:45,867 --> 00:28:49,547 integration, getting view only access to everything, documents we need up 599 00:28:49,547 --> 00:28:54,077 front so that each month we're only requesting things that we actually need. 600 00:28:54,087 --> 00:28:57,607 You might run into banks that don't allow view only access and stuff like 601 00:28:57,607 --> 00:29:01,377 that, where we need statements every single month, but our goal is to get. 602 00:29:01,512 --> 00:29:03,162 Tho that access every single month. 603 00:29:03,162 --> 00:29:06,432 So we can log into Amazon, we can log into your bank, we can log 604 00:29:06,432 --> 00:29:09,612 into your credit card and pull as much information as possible. 605 00:29:09,762 --> 00:29:12,282 And a lot of bookkeeping firms that they might be good at the 606 00:29:12,287 --> 00:29:15,252 bookkeeping, but they're bad at the stuff around the bookkeeping, that 607 00:29:15,257 --> 00:29:16,932 leads to a not so good experience. 608 00:29:17,252 --> 00:29:20,492 systems, processes, integration, customer service, stuff like that. 609 00:29:21,102 --> 00:29:21,712 Matt Edmundson: fantastic. 610 00:29:22,002 --> 00:29:24,872 So if I was starting out if I was starting a business today, I'd be 611 00:29:24,872 --> 00:29:28,272 curious, should I use Xero or QuickBooks? 612 00:29:28,312 --> 00:29:29,302 What's your preference? 613 00:29:29,302 --> 00:29:31,272 Are you 614 00:29:31,432 --> 00:29:32,752 Nathan Hirsch: pros and cons to each one. 615 00:29:32,902 --> 00:29:35,312 That's why we allow clients to use both. 616 00:29:35,332 --> 00:29:38,712 The real answer is whichever one your bookkeeper has more experience with. 617 00:29:38,762 --> 00:29:42,432 Our controller who has 30 years of bookkeeping experience has 30 618 00:29:42,442 --> 00:29:43,742 years of QuickBooks experience. 619 00:29:43,772 --> 00:29:47,502 So for us, if a client comes to us and they don't have any books, we're going 620 00:29:47,502 --> 00:29:50,992 to say, hey, we think you should be on QuickBooks Online for this reason. 621 00:29:50,992 --> 00:29:54,522 Now, if they hate QuickBooks Online for some reason and they're adamant 622 00:29:54,532 --> 00:29:57,567 they want to be on Xero, Sure, we can still work with that and we 623 00:29:57,567 --> 00:29:59,057 can still take on a zero client. 624 00:29:59,057 --> 00:30:02,727 But if it's up to us, the default is going to be the software 625 00:30:02,727 --> 00:30:04,107 that we're more familiar with. 626 00:30:04,107 --> 00:30:07,827 And what you really want to avoid is like the final loops and the benches 627 00:30:07,827 --> 00:30:12,237 of the world who have a software that no one else uses because not only 628 00:30:12,237 --> 00:30:15,517 are you stuck there and it's going to be an absolute pain to, to move 629 00:30:15,517 --> 00:30:22,087 off of, but no CPAs, your tax person doesn't necessarily use that software. 630 00:30:22,137 --> 00:30:24,837 At least stick with something that's going to be easy for you to switch. 631 00:30:24,977 --> 00:30:28,127 Hopefully Jared has a good experience with us, but if he doesn't, there's a 632 00:30:28,127 --> 00:30:32,397 lot of eCommerce bookkeeping, bookkeepers out there that use QuickBooks online. 633 00:30:33,762 --> 00:30:34,952 Matt Edmundson: QuickBooks or Xero, Jared? 634 00:30:35,692 --> 00:30:36,772 Jared Mitchell: QuickBooks Online. 635 00:30:38,512 --> 00:30:39,872 Matt Edmundson: And have you been on that for a while? 636 00:30:39,952 --> 00:30:40,532 Do you like it? 637 00:30:41,212 --> 00:30:41,772 Jared Mitchell: I like it. 638 00:30:41,772 --> 00:30:42,522 It's clunky. 639 00:30:42,532 --> 00:30:45,452 It reminds you of checking out on Amazon when you need to buy something. 640 00:30:45,472 --> 00:30:46,852 There's just stuff everywhere. 641 00:30:46,962 --> 00:30:49,352 They have, so you gotta know what you're doing. 642 00:30:49,372 --> 00:30:50,402 They have decent support. 643 00:30:51,212 --> 00:30:53,472 I echo exactly what Nate said. 644 00:30:53,522 --> 00:30:57,022 If you're wondering what to use, hopefully you have a CPA. 645 00:30:57,452 --> 00:31:01,522 That's helping you with taxes and then hopefully you have a solid booking, 646 00:31:01,562 --> 00:31:04,082 bookkeeping team like eComm Balance. 647 00:31:04,442 --> 00:31:07,802 Ask them and make sure that they're extremely comfortable with both. 648 00:31:08,092 --> 00:31:09,092 And that'll answer your question. 649 00:31:10,407 --> 00:31:13,197 Matt Edmundson: So just for the sake of those who are maybe listening this side 650 00:31:13,197 --> 00:31:17,207 of the Atlantic rather than your side of the Atlantic, you've used this acronym CPA 651 00:31:17,277 --> 00:31:19,137 twice to mean two very different things. 652 00:31:21,472 --> 00:31:21,942 Jared Mitchell: Oh, really? 653 00:31:21,942 --> 00:31:22,342 What did I do? 654 00:31:22,372 --> 00:31:23,672 What did I say before? 655 00:31:23,867 --> 00:31:26,647 Nathan Hirsch: Cost per acquisition and certified public account. 656 00:31:30,712 --> 00:31:32,992 Matt Edmundson: you're using it, I'm just aware that in England we don't 657 00:31:32,992 --> 00:31:38,332 call bookkeepers CPAs, and so I'm just getting you, just to clarify when you say 658 00:31:38,332 --> 00:31:42,252 CPA in two different contexts, you are talking about two very different things. 659 00:31:43,037 --> 00:31:45,947 Jared Mitchell: Is that the right acronym name, Nate, for what I call my tax guy? 660 00:31:45,947 --> 00:31:46,887 Isn't it CPA? 661 00:31:47,037 --> 00:31:47,717 Am I? 662 00:31:47,717 --> 00:31:50,037 Nathan Hirsch: It is if I could jump in. 663 00:31:50,047 --> 00:31:51,677 So this is a quick way to think about it. 664 00:31:52,447 --> 00:31:52,837 Yeah. 665 00:31:52,837 --> 00:31:53,327 CPI. 666 00:31:53,477 --> 00:31:54,437 You've got accounting. 667 00:31:54,437 --> 00:31:57,367 Accounting is like the big bubble that everything falls under and 668 00:31:57,367 --> 00:31:59,307 accounting can be really three parts. 669 00:31:59,307 --> 00:32:02,407 You got your bookkeeper who's doing your monthly books every single month. 670 00:32:02,447 --> 00:32:04,117 He gives payment balance sheet cashflow. 671 00:32:05,087 --> 00:32:05,857 categorizing. 672 00:32:06,057 --> 00:32:09,907 You got your tax person in the US, it's called the CPA outside the US. 673 00:32:09,907 --> 00:32:10,927 It's called something different. 674 00:32:11,157 --> 00:32:15,077 They're there to give you tax advice, tax strategy, actually file your taxes, 675 00:32:15,237 --> 00:32:16,557 communicate with your bookkeeper. 676 00:32:16,737 --> 00:32:19,527 And then when you get a little bigger, you can go more that CFO 677 00:32:19,537 --> 00:32:23,037 or consultant, whatever you want to call it, a part time fractional. 678 00:32:23,167 --> 00:32:25,457 They're there to help you make business decisions. 679 00:32:25,647 --> 00:32:27,507 Say, Hey, this is what the numbers are telling you. 680 00:32:27,507 --> 00:32:29,177 You should spend more on PPC. 681 00:32:29,177 --> 00:32:30,207 You should hire more people. 682 00:32:30,207 --> 00:32:32,522 You can forecast cashflow, whatever it is. 683 00:32:32,532 --> 00:32:36,672 So those are the three elements and you at least need a tax person and a bookkeeper. 684 00:32:36,872 --> 00:32:38,842 And then the CFO is optional as you get bigger. 685 00:32:39,512 --> 00:32:40,152 Matt Edmundson: very good. 686 00:32:40,452 --> 00:32:42,422 So I'm just going to translate this, ladies and gentlemen, 687 00:32:42,422 --> 00:32:43,902 for the English amongst us. 688 00:32:44,492 --> 00:32:45,622 We would have a bookkeeper. 689 00:32:45,912 --> 00:32:50,772 An accountant and maybe a CFO at some point when you get that's a good point. 690 00:32:50,772 --> 00:32:55,992 Actually, would you, if you're starting out in a business, would you have someone 691 00:32:55,992 --> 00:32:59,922 who is competent, involved, who is not. 692 00:33:00,447 --> 00:33:03,307 You're not necessarily employing him as a CFO, but certainly bringing in 693 00:33:03,337 --> 00:33:07,637 someone quite early into the business with that kind of acumen and thinking. 694 00:33:09,732 --> 00:33:09,952 Nathan Hirsch: Yeah. 695 00:33:09,952 --> 00:33:12,272 It just depends how complex your business is. 696 00:33:12,282 --> 00:33:15,942 Like I ran free up, which is a, we got it pretty big to 12 million, but it 697 00:33:15,942 --> 00:33:17,422 was a pretty simple business, right? 698 00:33:17,422 --> 00:33:20,437 It's cashflow positive charge your clients, take our fee, 699 00:33:20,477 --> 00:33:22,057 pay the freelancers on delay. 700 00:33:22,197 --> 00:33:25,577 We didn't have an office, we didn't have lots of overhead, so wasn't the 701 00:33:25,577 --> 00:33:29,487 most complex business in the world, and I consider ourselves decently good at 702 00:33:29,487 --> 00:33:31,437 finance, so we never did hire a CFO. 703 00:33:31,437 --> 00:33:35,127 If you're running a pretty large eCommerce business and other situations, 704 00:33:35,137 --> 00:33:38,672 it might make sense, and I know Jared has people on his team that and maybe 705 00:33:38,672 --> 00:33:41,232 I'm wrong, but I believe you have people on your team that specialize in that 706 00:33:41,232 --> 00:33:44,712 just because you said it yourself, your background is more in the marketing. 707 00:33:44,712 --> 00:33:46,692 So it depends on what your background is too. 708 00:33:48,457 --> 00:33:49,067 Matt Edmundson: Very good. 709 00:33:49,617 --> 00:33:50,207 Very good. 710 00:33:50,617 --> 00:33:53,717 Jared, you said what other pieces of software does he recommend 711 00:33:53,717 --> 00:33:57,097 clients alongside of his make sure to ask him about Fathom? 712 00:33:59,432 --> 00:34:01,712 Nathan Hirsch: Yeah, Fathom, there's a few tools that we use. 713 00:34:01,742 --> 00:34:04,852 Rewind, which I'm actually testing some other stuff, but that's good 714 00:34:04,852 --> 00:34:08,062 for just backing up your books in case anything goes wrong or you hire 715 00:34:08,062 --> 00:34:09,192 a bookkeeper and they mess it up. 716 00:34:09,202 --> 00:34:10,962 Always good to just have a backup copy. 717 00:34:11,142 --> 00:34:13,042 Fathom, we really like for reports. 718 00:34:13,042 --> 00:34:17,412 It turns, again, QuickBooks can be very clunky and the reports are no different. 719 00:34:17,412 --> 00:34:18,972 They're a little hard to read in my opinion. 720 00:34:19,022 --> 00:34:19,409 Oh wow. 721 00:34:19,409 --> 00:34:19,796 That's amazing. 722 00:34:19,796 --> 00:34:20,570 I just love it. 723 00:34:20,570 --> 00:34:22,119 I think that this was a great idea. 724 00:34:22,119 --> 00:34:23,086 Yeah, I think it's wonderful. 725 00:34:23,086 --> 00:34:24,441 I think it's a great idea, too. 726 00:34:24,441 --> 00:34:26,957 I think it's a really great idea that you guys are bringing forward. 727 00:34:26,957 --> 00:34:27,731 And I love that. 728 00:34:27,731 --> 00:34:30,247 And I think it is great that you guys are bringing it forward. 729 00:34:30,247 --> 00:34:33,731 It is great that you are taking up our space to be a part of this because I 730 00:34:33,731 --> 00:34:37,021 think it would be great to have you back on the show, that to keep us going. 731 00:34:37,021 --> 00:34:40,117 And for those of you that don't know what the crowd church is, crowd church where 732 00:34:40,117 --> 00:34:43,021 it's all about meeting people and a lot of people that have been listening to 733 00:34:43,021 --> 00:34:47,948 us on Those are a few tools along with the A2X and LinkMyBooks that complement 734 00:34:47,948 --> 00:34:49,968 the QuickBooks Online and the Xero. 735 00:34:50,713 --> 00:34:51,363 Matt Edmundson: Very good. 736 00:34:51,543 --> 00:34:54,413 Anything from you in terms of software that you use, Jared, that 737 00:34:54,413 --> 00:34:56,693 can throw into the mix here that people might be interested in? 738 00:34:56,883 --> 00:34:58,563 Jared Mitchell: Yeah, I think two things. 739 00:34:58,593 --> 00:35:02,343 I wanted to echo what Nate said but I wanted people that are listening 740 00:35:02,373 --> 00:35:06,273 to know, because you might not have accurate inventory, and you might have 741 00:35:06,863 --> 00:35:10,523 skews going on, that's you don't know, what your inventory, where it's at. 742 00:35:10,743 --> 00:35:16,673 And so there's a tool that Nate mentioned called A2X that connects to your platform 743 00:35:17,083 --> 00:35:21,313 that'll actually help you get a decent COGS number for the month until you 744 00:35:21,313 --> 00:35:23,523 catch up and get accurate inventory. 745 00:35:24,153 --> 00:35:26,733 I wasn't aware that it was as slick as it is. 746 00:35:27,243 --> 00:35:31,543 The reason we know it's as slick as it is because what Nate and I actually did 747 00:35:31,623 --> 00:35:36,443 now that my inventory is live, is we went back and fixed some of the months. 748 00:35:36,673 --> 00:35:41,233 We've just fixed some of the months that we had a sort of not had live 749 00:35:41,233 --> 00:35:45,793 inventory for, and the adjustments we made are not that far off. 750 00:35:46,433 --> 00:35:48,833 So that was pretty cool, pretty encouraging for me to see. 751 00:35:50,203 --> 00:35:54,363 The second one that like, I can't speak enough positive 752 00:35:54,363 --> 00:35:56,533 things about would be Fathom. 753 00:35:57,103 --> 00:36:02,372 And the reason I love it is because, we've been talking a little bit about CFO. 754 00:36:03,032 --> 00:36:10,817 In the past, I've had to hire like part time CFO type minds to 755 00:36:10,817 --> 00:36:14,687 help us answer certain questions about our financials or inventory. 756 00:36:15,657 --> 00:36:18,867 This tool, Fathom, their support's insanely good. 757 00:36:19,457 --> 00:36:22,927 And basically they replaced that whole need for me. 758 00:36:23,047 --> 00:36:23,867 Like I can ask. 759 00:36:24,487 --> 00:36:27,517 Hey, I want to figure out, this about my inventory. 760 00:36:27,907 --> 00:36:31,137 And they will sit there and walk me through it and set up a custom 761 00:36:31,137 --> 00:36:35,167 report for me or show me where that information already exists. 762 00:36:35,457 --> 00:36:36,597 And answer my question. 763 00:36:37,897 --> 00:36:39,727 Matt Edmundson: So it seems actually listening to you talk 764 00:36:39,727 --> 00:36:41,437 Jared support is a big deal. 765 00:36:41,657 --> 00:36:46,277 So whichever software platform you are using, because obviously there's 766 00:36:46,277 --> 00:36:49,637 gonna be different bits of software around the world for different things. 767 00:36:49,677 --> 00:36:54,167 But it seems like one of the key things for both service choosing a bookkeeper 768 00:36:54,697 --> 00:36:56,887 and choosing a platform is actually. 769 00:36:57,727 --> 00:36:59,937 The customer service, can you get on the phone? 770 00:37:00,277 --> 00:37:02,837 Or if you're a millennial or Gen Z, can you email them 771 00:37:02,837 --> 00:37:04,087 or have instant chat, right? 772 00:37:04,567 --> 00:37:07,957 And can you talk to a person that's actually going to be helpful? 773 00:37:07,957 --> 00:37:12,157 It seems like remarkably simple, but it seems like this is a common thread, 774 00:37:12,167 --> 00:37:13,177 which is weaving its way through. 775 00:37:13,178 --> 00:37:16,688 Jared Mitchell: That's one thing that I'd say kindly about Nate, 776 00:37:16,928 --> 00:37:18,848 in addition to many other things. 777 00:37:19,118 --> 00:37:22,618 But I'd start with the fact that this is the funniest thing. 778 00:37:22,618 --> 00:37:24,418 There's at some point in our relationship. 779 00:37:24,938 --> 00:37:29,958 Where he emailed or called, and he's dude, you email me a hundred times more 780 00:37:29,958 --> 00:37:32,008 than any of my other clients combined. 781 00:37:32,008 --> 00:37:38,158 I was like, oh no, I had no idea. 782 00:37:38,198 --> 00:37:39,368 I had zero clue. 783 00:37:39,878 --> 00:37:43,388 And it was like Nate said, we had a lot, we were like early stages 784 00:37:43,388 --> 00:37:44,598 and had a lot to figure out. 785 00:37:44,998 --> 00:37:49,378 But what I really appreciated about them is they fielded the emails 786 00:37:49,418 --> 00:37:50,908 and they answered my questions. 787 00:37:51,118 --> 00:37:54,448 And I have a lot less these days cause things are figured out and cleaner. 788 00:37:55,648 --> 00:38:00,708 Every step of the way with your CPA, with your bookkeeping team, with your 789 00:38:00,768 --> 00:38:05,228 inventory management system, if you can't get an answer to something, 790 00:38:05,898 --> 00:38:09,178 you're dead in the water, especially if there's like a big issue, right? 791 00:38:09,388 --> 00:38:10,318 To me, it's everything. 792 00:38:12,788 --> 00:38:14,258 Nathan Hirsch: I have a few thoughts on that. 793 00:38:14,348 --> 00:38:17,898 To backtrack for a second, just like Jared said, he tests out every single 794 00:38:17,898 --> 00:38:19,528 software and asks them a lot of questions. 795 00:38:19,538 --> 00:38:23,505 We went through that in the call me, call my home. 796 00:38:23,505 --> 00:38:28,388 Say, Hey, are you in technically high school? 797 00:38:28,388 --> 00:38:31,439 I live in Morgan, St. 798 00:38:31,439 --> 00:38:34,491 That's the funniest place ever. 799 00:38:34,491 --> 00:38:35,102 Yeah. 800 00:38:35,102 --> 00:38:43,647 So we didn't, when we first talked about how sort of school. 801 00:38:43,697 --> 00:38:47,407 My new business, True SEO, all about customer service. 802 00:38:47,447 --> 00:38:49,937 We want everyone to respond within a business day. 803 00:38:50,127 --> 00:38:53,427 One of my biggest pet peeves is when people ask questions and 804 00:38:53,427 --> 00:38:56,607 they don't get answers, direct answers to those questions. 805 00:38:56,607 --> 00:38:59,537 So bookkeepers, they're unique human beings, right? 806 00:38:59,537 --> 00:39:01,067 Like they, they hide behind the numbers. 807 00:39:01,527 --> 00:39:06,097 They're categorizing stuff all day and we've had to do extensive just 808 00:39:06,137 --> 00:39:08,317 email training on and with someone. 809 00:39:08,327 --> 00:39:11,547 Hey, a client sends you five questions in one paragraph. 810 00:39:11,817 --> 00:39:13,187 Don't respond to three of them. 811 00:39:13,197 --> 00:39:15,937 Break it down and make sure every single one is answered. 812 00:39:16,127 --> 00:39:19,977 Make sure that email chains don't go back and forth more than three times. 813 00:39:19,977 --> 00:39:22,187 If you're doing that, then you're doing something wrong. 814 00:39:22,742 --> 00:39:26,132 What is the situation where you say, okay, this isn't working via email. 815 00:39:26,322 --> 00:39:28,062 Let's hop on a call and hash it out. 816 00:39:28,332 --> 00:39:32,152 And you want to do that before you get to email 15 on the email chain. 817 00:39:32,152 --> 00:39:35,982 So we've gotten through a lot of email train, a lot of email training with 818 00:39:36,142 --> 00:39:39,362 bookkeepers who are great when it comes to what they normally do, the 819 00:39:39,362 --> 00:39:42,992 bookkeeping side, but trying to add that customer service element that. 820 00:39:43,127 --> 00:39:45,347 We want to be the best of the best compared to other 821 00:39:45,347 --> 00:39:46,337 bookkeeping firms out there. 822 00:39:48,882 --> 00:39:50,822 Matt Edmundson: That's generally good business advice when it comes 823 00:39:50,822 --> 00:39:53,322 to email, I feel, and offering customer service to your own 824 00:39:53,322 --> 00:39:54,672 customers via your eCommerce business. 825 00:39:55,272 --> 00:39:59,502 What's the I guess one of the questions, Nathan that maybe you can touch on is 826 00:39:59,682 --> 00:40:06,612 when I think of bookkeeping, I think of what the guys at 40X call lag measures. 827 00:40:07,097 --> 00:40:12,257 So you're looking at data which is historically out of date as soon 828 00:40:12,277 --> 00:40:13,697 as you look at it in a lot of ways. 829 00:40:14,217 --> 00:40:17,967 Whereas if I look at a live dashboard, for example that's given 830 00:40:17,967 --> 00:40:19,807 me like to the minute information. 831 00:40:20,377 --> 00:40:21,487 Do I need both? 832 00:40:21,857 --> 00:40:22,937 How do they work together? 833 00:40:22,937 --> 00:40:28,147 Because in my head, both are important, but I can see why a lot of people 834 00:40:28,177 --> 00:40:29,487 might go, I've got a dashboard here. 835 00:40:29,487 --> 00:40:30,047 That's fine. 836 00:40:31,777 --> 00:40:32,737 Nathan Hirsch: Yeah, both. 837 00:40:32,787 --> 00:40:35,717 All of my companies, we're looking at stuff on a weekly basis. 838 00:40:35,717 --> 00:40:38,807 We're tracking stuff on a weekly basis, but we don't consider any numbers 839 00:40:38,807 --> 00:40:40,837 final until we get the final report. 840 00:40:40,837 --> 00:40:42,607 And there's always stuff missing. 841 00:40:42,787 --> 00:40:46,657 There's stuff like seller board, which I know the founder, it's a good tool, but 842 00:40:47,382 --> 00:40:51,412 Things change, it doesn't replace monthly bookkeeping, so for me it's monthly 843 00:40:51,412 --> 00:40:55,202 bookkeeping you absolutely have to have and then the dashboard or the weekly 844 00:40:55,202 --> 00:40:59,072 reports you might get or whatever it is, that's the add on, it's not the other 845 00:40:59,072 --> 00:41:02,342 way around where you've got the weekly stuff so you don't need the monthly. 846 00:41:03,337 --> 00:41:04,127 Matt Edmundson: Do you agree, Jared? 847 00:41:05,607 --> 00:41:09,127 Jared Mitchell: Definitely and with regards to timing, a hot question is 848 00:41:09,177 --> 00:41:11,427 how soon can you get me my books, right? 849 00:41:12,157 --> 00:41:18,607 And I think I had false expectations, and I think the expectations I'd lay out 850 00:41:18,627 --> 00:41:24,057 for anyone within the sound of my voice right now is that If you're not up and 851 00:41:24,057 --> 00:41:27,937 running with these systems that we're talking about, you're probably going to 852 00:41:27,947 --> 00:41:32,217 have to rely on getting your financials for the prior month, either from the 853 00:41:32,217 --> 00:41:35,257 15th or the 30th of the next month. 854 00:41:35,687 --> 00:41:37,877 It's going to be delayed, most likely. 855 00:41:38,547 --> 00:41:41,037 So I would get to that point first. 856 00:41:41,647 --> 00:41:45,997 And make sure everything's clean, and a well oiled machine, before you start 857 00:41:45,997 --> 00:41:50,297 talking about, okay, how do we close in on that end of month number, and 858 00:41:50,317 --> 00:41:54,367 so I can get those ratios as soon as I can, and actually act upon them. 859 00:41:56,512 --> 00:41:57,632 Matt Edmundson: Any thoughts on that, Nathan? 860 00:41:58,522 --> 00:42:00,382 Nathan Hirsch: yeah, one thing we didn't really talk about was just 861 00:42:00,592 --> 00:42:04,662 the setup, like before you hire a bookkeeper, obviously you need QuickBooks 862 00:42:04,662 --> 00:42:07,782 or Xero but also just what banks you use, what credit cards you use. 863 00:42:07,912 --> 00:42:09,972 Jared's not one of these clients, but we've got clients 864 00:42:09,972 --> 00:42:10,792 who are using QuickBooks. 865 00:42:10,812 --> 00:42:11,212 Matt Edmundson: Fantastic. 866 00:42:11,572 --> 00:42:12,272 Fantastic. 867 00:42:13,292 --> 00:42:16,742 Gentlemen, listen, I'm aware of time and I'm aware that we could just carry 868 00:42:16,742 --> 00:42:20,212 on the conversation and just keep going and I've actually quite enjoyed it. 869 00:42:20,252 --> 00:42:23,942 What we've managed to do somehow is take a what is perceived as not a very 870 00:42:23,942 --> 00:42:26,922 interesting topic like bookkeeping and have quite a fun conversation about it. 871 00:42:26,932 --> 00:42:29,802 So I, I tip my hat to you gentlemen. 872 00:42:29,892 --> 00:42:31,272 It's been fun. 873 00:42:31,452 --> 00:42:33,932 Jared, anything in closing from you, bud, on this whole thing? 874 00:42:35,527 --> 00:42:39,507 Jared Mitchell: Man, no, just thanks for your time, I guess if anyone I'm one 875 00:42:39,507 --> 00:42:42,407 of those people that like, now that I know what I know, I want to help others. 876 00:42:42,417 --> 00:42:47,617 So I don't really do consulting anymore, but someone's welcome to email me and 877 00:42:47,617 --> 00:42:51,347 ask me a question and like which one do I use or lay out their scenario. 878 00:42:51,347 --> 00:42:52,127 I'm happy to help. 879 00:42:52,127 --> 00:42:55,457 I feel like that's just what we should do as entrepreneurs. 880 00:42:55,817 --> 00:42:58,677 Every single time I'm going to recommend Nate for bookkeeping 881 00:42:58,947 --> 00:43:00,587 and he doesn't pay me to say that. 882 00:43:00,587 --> 00:43:03,737 He actually didn't even know I was going to be on this show and I'll 883 00:43:03,737 --> 00:43:05,297 make some other recommendations. 884 00:43:05,297 --> 00:43:05,327 Bye. 885 00:43:05,327 --> 00:43:05,342 Bye. 886 00:43:05,882 --> 00:43:06,482 Happy to help. 887 00:43:08,422 --> 00:43:09,152 Matt Edmundson: Fantastic. 888 00:43:09,152 --> 00:43:10,392 Nathan, anything else from you? 889 00:43:10,642 --> 00:43:12,852 It's just, that's perfect timing for him just to go. 890 00:43:13,042 --> 00:43:14,642 Nathan Hirsch: Like you said, I didn't know Jared was going to come. 891 00:43:14,642 --> 00:43:16,252 It's always good to chat with him. 892 00:43:16,252 --> 00:43:20,042 And I appreciate the kind words and the trust and everything that goes with that. 893 00:43:20,042 --> 00:43:21,342 And yeah, thanks for having me on. 894 00:43:21,342 --> 00:43:21,732 It's fun. 895 00:43:21,732 --> 00:43:25,072 I was telling Matt before this, anything to make a podcast different 896 00:43:25,082 --> 00:43:28,512 from the other 800 podcasts I've been on is always a welcome change. 897 00:43:29,832 --> 00:43:31,412 Matt Edmundson: hopefully we've done that, Nathan. 898 00:43:32,462 --> 00:43:33,112 Nathan Hirsch: Definitely. 899 00:43:33,802 --> 00:43:36,602 Matt Edmundson: Gentlemen, both of you are exceptionally beautiful people. 900 00:43:36,612 --> 00:43:37,812 Thank you for coming on the show. 901 00:43:38,042 --> 00:43:39,942 Really enjoyed the conversation. 902 00:43:40,262 --> 00:43:43,952 Chad, we should do this again sometime, but where we just go and chat to people. 903 00:43:44,932 --> 00:43:47,762 Jared Mitchell: Hey man, if you need a co host, I'm right there, dude. 904 00:43:48,192 --> 00:43:49,692 Matt Edmundson: Excellent, excellent. 905 00:43:49,692 --> 00:43:52,872 We should definitely do that again. 906 00:43:54,032 --> 00:43:57,202 Let me, while I remember, just give another quick shout out to Ben Leonard. 907 00:43:57,952 --> 00:44:00,742 We mentioned it earlier, but the Quit Stalling and Build Your Brand book, 908 00:44:00,812 --> 00:44:03,492 definitely go check that out, Ben's a great guy, I think he's coming on the show 909 00:44:03,492 --> 00:44:08,972 again soon but yeah, I think that's it we will of course link to both Jared and 910 00:44:08,972 --> 00:44:12,952 Nathan in the show notes which you can get on the website at eCommercePodcast. 911 00:44:13,552 --> 00:44:16,442 net, if you're subscribed to the newsletter, they will be coming to 912 00:44:16,442 --> 00:44:20,642 your inbox automatically of course, they will all be in there but yeah, 913 00:44:20,662 --> 00:44:22,292 gentlemen you're both awesome. 914 00:44:22,312 --> 00:44:23,262 Thank you for coming on. 915 00:44:23,332 --> 00:44:23,982 Really appreciate it. 916 00:44:24,012 --> 00:44:24,892 Great conversation. 917 00:44:27,342 --> 00:44:27,802 Wow. 918 00:44:27,982 --> 00:44:28,342 Jared Mitchell: for having me. 919 00:44:28,812 --> 00:44:29,182 Matt Edmundson: Nice. 920 00:44:29,212 --> 00:44:29,942 It's beautiful. 921 00:44:30,072 --> 00:44:30,552 It's beautiful. 922 00:44:30,562 --> 00:44:31,772 Just stay there for a few minutes. 923 00:44:31,772 --> 00:44:33,322 Don't go anywhere while I close out the show. 924 00:44:33,742 --> 00:44:35,632 Thank you so much for joining us. 925 00:44:36,032 --> 00:44:37,542 It's been great, hasn't it? 926 00:44:37,542 --> 00:44:39,982 Now make sure you check out the eCommerce Cohort. 927 00:44:39,992 --> 00:44:41,702 Be great to see you in the Monthly Mastermind. 928 00:44:41,712 --> 00:44:44,642 If you're not in there already, come check it out at eCommerce Cohorts. 929 00:44:46,177 --> 00:44:49,187 Big shout out to the team that makes this show possible, which 930 00:44:49,187 --> 00:44:52,517 includes the beautiful and talented Sadaf Beynon and Tanya Hutsuliak. 931 00:44:52,897 --> 00:44:55,207 Big shout out to Josh Edmundson for the theme music. 932 00:44:55,507 --> 00:44:57,977 And if no one's told you yet today, let me be the first. 933 00:44:57,977 --> 00:44:59,247 You are awesome. 934 00:44:59,297 --> 00:44:59,807 Yes, you are. 935 00:44:59,837 --> 00:45:00,627 Created awesome. 936 00:45:00,877 --> 00:45:02,627 It's just a burden you've got to bear. 937 00:45:02,977 --> 00:45:03,877 Jared's got to bear it. 938 00:45:03,907 --> 00:45:05,097 Nathan's got to bear it. 939 00:45:05,107 --> 00:45:07,157 His five month old kid's got to bear it. 940 00:45:07,207 --> 00:45:08,417 I've got to bear it. 941 00:45:08,837 --> 00:45:09,857 We've all got to bear it. 942 00:45:10,352 --> 00:45:13,962 That's it, eCommerce Podcast is produced by PodJunction, 943 00:45:13,972 --> 00:45:15,332 the new name for Aurion Media. 944 00:45:15,972 --> 00:45:19,902 Find out more about PodJunction, find out more about everything at eCommercePodcast. 945 00:45:19,902 --> 00:45:20,142 net. 946 00:45:20,142 --> 00:45:22,912 But gentlemen, that's it from me, that's it from all of us. 947 00:45:23,312 --> 00:45:26,002 Thank you so much for joining us, it's been fun. 948 00:45:26,662 --> 00:45:26,942 Bye for now.