Marvin: Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of the Articulate Fly.

Marvin: We're back with another Casting Angles with Mack Brown. Mack, how are you?

Mac: I'm doing great, Marvin. How are you doing?

Marvin: As always, just trying to stay out of trouble. And you know,

Marvin: it's been pretty darn hot in our neck of the woods.

Marvin: But, you know, for the next week or 10 days or so, it looks like it's going to be cloudy.

Marvin: Decent amount of rain and probably temperatures in the 80s. So the fishing ought

Marvin: to pick up a little bit, right?

Mac: Oh, it has. I mean, I was down at Lowcountry last week and, you know,

Mac: it was up triple digit heat index.

Mac: And the day I got home, I think it was Wednesday morning.

Mac: We were 72 for the high, overcast. And it's kind of been that pattern this whole time.

Mac: You know, and here it is Monday and it stayed like rain every day, overcast days.

Mac: Fish are looking up. It's a big change from what it was before I went down there.

Marvin: Yeah. And so on the hatch front, I mean, what's the bug of choice these days? Nothing.

Mac: I'm throwing a lot of pseudocleon, like little tiny mayflies in the morning.

Mac: They're similar to trichos, mahogany color.

Mac: We're having those, like huge spinner falls of those about 10 a.m. every morning.

Mac: That's really what's been best is throwing really tiny, either midges or the

Mac: little pseudos, one or the other. But the small flies are king right now.

Marvin: Yeah, and so I would imagine you're probably fishing up in the park and not down low, right?

Mac: Well, I'm fishing a lot right below the house, too. I mean, just,

Mac: you know, the state water, I mean, it stays plenty cold just because it's just

Mac: a lot of foliage the whole way down.

Mac: And when it comes out of the park, it's not a big difference going up a mile

Mac: or two miles than what it is right here.

Mac: You know what I mean? The lower elevation before it goes in,

Mac: you know, into Bryson, into the Tuckasegee.

Mac: So, yeah, I mean, I think all the park streams with these rains are cooling down quite a bit.

Marvin: Yeah, which is also a little tip for folks if they're on the big water to go

Marvin: fish where the small creeks come in because the water's going to be cooler.

Mac: That's right. That's right for sure. And it's like, I haven't done a lot of

Mac: warm water fishing the last few weeks.

Mac: I mean, mostly, mostly when, as soon as I got home, it was back to,

Mac: um, you know, a lot of, a lot of stuff on the freestones teaching.

Mac: And it's like, they all want to do trout. So if they want to do bass,

Mac: I'd go do it. It's just everybody that's here right now wants to do trout.

Mac: So, so the trout, I'm just thankful it's cooled down.

Mac: The water temp this morning was 56 degrees, which is nice temperature for this time of year.

Marvin: Yeah, absolutely, because I know checking the temperature gauges over on the

Marvin: Davidson and Brevard, I mean, in the afternoon, that water's up in the low to

Marvin: mid-70s, so it's no good.

Marvin: And, you know, I was talking to—actually, it's kind of funny, right?

Marvin: I was at ICAST last week, and I literally walk in to check into the hotel,

Marvin: and Kevin Howell is down there eating breakfast with his wife.

Marvin: And it's always funny because it seems like wherever I travel,

Marvin: I either see him or I go fish in Montana, and I walk in a bar,

Marvin: and there's half his guide staff.

Marvin: And, you know, we were, you know, we were talking about the fish and he's like,

Marvin: yeah, he's like, basically once spring was over, it was got,

Marvin: got kind of tough and hot. So.

Mac: Yep. Oh, it did. I'm just thankful all the, you know, high elevation above Bryson.

Mac: I mean, it's, it's nice having that elevation.

Marvin: Yeah.

Mac: I mean, coming off of like the left prong, about 6,700 feet.

Mac: So most, most watersheds don't have 6,700 feet. So, like, I feel bad for our

Mac: friends just to the south, you know, down, you know, like North Georgia,

Mac: it doesn't have near that elevation to keep it as cold. So I'm sure it's hotter.

Marvin: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it was interesting too, right? So, you know,

Marvin: I know you've been to ICAST before and we tried to tempt you to come over from

Marvin: Hilton Head for a day, but, you know, it was my first time there and it,

Marvin: uh, it was an experience.

Marvin: I mean, that is a, uh, that's a fishing show on a completely different level.

Mac: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of good industry stuff there for sure.

Mac: And I was going to try to make it, and it just ended up having work,

Mac: you know, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

Mac: And it's like when I left out of Hilton Head to beat all the beach traffic,

Mac: I think I left about 3.40 in the morning.

Mac: I wanted to get home before it was, you know, getting hot, and I thought it

Mac: was going to be hot. And to my surprise, it stayed cool all day.

Mac: You know to be outside was nice it's nice being back outside not not having

Mac: like trip you know we didn't get that hot when we say we're hot up here we're

Mac: like upper 80s you know so the local people start com upper 80s is too hot.

Marvin: Yeah you.

Mac: Know so we like it better in the 70s this time of year for sure.

Marvin: Yeah absolutely you know it's kind of interesting too right because there is

Marvin: a fly fishing section at icast but you know the interesting thing is you know

Marvin: even if folks weren't exhibiting there there were a lot of you know we were

Marvin: talking before we started recording And there were a lot of the kind of the

Marvin: usual suspects that came to the show when we're walking around.

Marvin: So it was kind of good to see people in the middle of summer like that.

Marvin: And, you know, a shout out to our friends at TFO. And I know you helped develop

Marvin: this ride, but they actually won a Best in Show Award for the new,

Marvin: I guess, what is this, the Elvair? It's their nymphing ride, right?

Mac: Right. It's a great, like, wet fly, dry fly rod. That's what I've been using

Mac: for everything with all, you know, the trips.

Mac: I was lucky. I've had it for several months.

Mac: Probably four months before it came out.

Mac: And it's just such a great rod for, I think, everything all around.

Mac: But I like the longer, lighter rods like that anyway.

Mac: But this thing is really well-balanced swing weight.

Mac: It's been my new favorite thing all summer that I've fished every time I go out.

Mac: I'm glad they won that down there, for sure.

Marvin: Yeah and so tell me a little bit more because i haven't had a chance to really

Marvin: kind of play around with the rod i'm assuming is probably starting to show up

Marvin: and maybe like uh you know some of the smaller sizes that probably goes out

Marvin: to a 10 or 11 foot rod right.

Mac: Yeah i think the two weights 10 footer there's a two and a half footer,

Mac: and um i like both i've been fishing a lot with the two weight just because

Mac: i'm fishing a lot of really small flies right now i mean like this morning i

Mac: was fishing 22s and 20s the whole time and,

Mac: That's just kind of what the fish have been keying in on because that's just

Mac: really the thing that's prevalent when you're out there. That's all I see.

Mac: I'm not seeing any kind of large insects. I don't see any.

Mac: I've not seen a yellow sally all year. And, I mean, we used to have them by

Mac: the thousands this time of year, and I don't know where they are,

Mac: but I've not seen one anywhere on the creek.

Mac: So there's no point in throwing a 16 yellow sally when there's not any out flying

Mac: and crawling on branches. Now, there might be some somewheres else,

Mac: but at least on Hazel and Deep Creek and Nolan Creek, I've not seen one yet.

Marvin: Yeah. And so tell me a little bit more about the rod. I mean,

Marvin: what did you and the other folks that helped design it at TFO put into that

Marvin: rod that kind of sets it apart from some of the other kind of traditional Euro nymphing stakes? Yeah.

Mac: Well, Jason did a lot with that rod and the swing weight. We talked a lot about

Mac: that when it was in development stages.

Mac: So the swing weight is really ideal. When you have a really balanced swing weight,

Mac: it feels like it's an extension of your hand without having weight and feeling clunky in any places.

Mac: Of course, the hard part with long rods is when they're not balanced,

Mac: you feel this clunkiness of swing weight being off.

Mac: And then a lot of it with the way the handle was,

Mac: we modified that quite a bit and that feedback,

Mac: you know, Michael Bradley and Jason and I got together up here in Cherokee and

Mac: talked a lot about other things that were pluses and things that we'd like to see change, you know.

Mac: And I'm just glad because then when the prototypes, they went ahead and did

Mac: all those things that we were talking about.

Mac: And it's just, I love it. I mean, I use it a lot with wets and stuff too, Marvin.

Mac: I mean, I love it for launching like doubles, you know, putting on a double

Mac: taper. And it's not just a tight line.

Mac: And it'll excel in that area, but it's a great, you put a double taper two or

Mac: three weight on it and for those type of line weights, and you can do whatever you need to do.

Mac: Like on big water, like that's what I would take on the Holston even right now.

Mac: If I was over there floating, I'd probably be throwing a 10 and a half foot three.

Mac: Because you can still do a lot with it, you know, with the double taper yeah.

Marvin: And just to help you know folks that may not know when we talk about a rod and

Marvin: reel being balanced what we're really talking about is that the line in the reel is,

Marvin: equal to the weight of everything kind of in front of that so if you kind of hold that rod,

Marvin: you know on your index finger it should kind of balance like a teeter-totter

Marvin: and what that does is it keeps you from getting fatigued um and to your point

Marvin: makes the rod an extension of your arm and And so it's kind of an effortless

Marvin: tool to fish with, right?

Mac: Yeah. Yeah. It just, it just makes it feel like really super balanced in your hand.

Mac: And so that's what I liked. I remember in the early stages, a lot of the 11

Mac: footers, you know, 15 years ago, I kept thinking, well, there's not going to

Mac: be anything that ever feels balanced.

Mac: Cause I was just a clunky at 11 foot.

Mac: You know, it was hard that they didn't have the way to lighten up the top enough

Mac: yet with all the technology that's in rod building today.

Mac: Day so it'd feel kind of like a catapult you'd make a cast and you'd feel this

Mac: big book on the rebound you know the counter flex rebound bounce and it was just because it was so,

Mac: non-balanced swing weight wise you know so i had a bunch of them that went right back on e-bus

Mac: back in the day you know i was like nah this 11 footer's going and uh yeah then

Mac: that happened a lot even with the 10 and a half footers in the early years and

Mac: so whenever you get one that,

Mac: can be balanced it's just a lot a lot more pleasant to hold in your hand all day yeah.

Marvin: And i so i would say you know nick conklin and all the folks at

Marvin: tfo you know they're really putting out some really nice rods and

Marvin: they're doing the same thing on the conventional side you know the great thing

Marvin: is you know gosh i mean you know when i got into the sport and certainly when

Marvin: you got into the sport to be able to have a rod that performs as well as the

Marvin: elvair or you know the blitz or the axiom 2 you know at the price point that

Marvin: they're at is really pretty amazing.

Mac: Oh it is and another one to mention too is that solution i

Mac: mean that's a that's a brand new it was like mystery x

Mac: rod at the show in atlanta they didn't want to unveil you

Mac: know the name and all because it was still about to come out you know it just

Mac: came out to a couple this last month and that that is a wonderful i ended up

Mac: getting a bunch of those for the casting schools that's a wonderful medium action

Mac: rod if anybody's looking for a great casting tool to practice with you know

Mac: That's one of the better rods that I've seen in a long time,

Mac: it shows. It's just so well-balanced.

Marvin: Yeah, I got to cast one at ICAST, and the amazing thing was,

Marvin: to your point, you could put 60, 70 feet of line out just to pick up in a shoot.

Marvin: But if you wanted to mend line up close, that medium-fast action,

Marvin: that little bit of softness in the tip really allowed you to manipulate the

Marvin: line really well up close.

Mac: Oh, yeah. Yeah, and it's an awesome roll casting rod, too, if you like doing

Mac: long-distance roll casts.

Mac: It'll really help with that because it's just got a lot of – it's so well-made at the medium side.

Mac: It's not too fast. It's not too slow.

Mac: It's basically just right. It's the ideal casting tool because,

Mac: as you know, the last 20 years, I mean, most rods have gone fast,

Mac: fast, fast off the deep end, where they're just too fast.

Mac: There's not a – I don't know of a casting instructor in Europe or here that's

Mac: advocating anything super fast.

Mac: You know, and it's like, it's nice to see that come out just for the fact that

Mac: it brings back rejuvenation into the medium action that are,

Mac: you know, like the things that most people like to throw.

Mac: So I think that'll be a big hit.

Marvin: Yeah. And it's interesting too, right? So, you know, we're getting towards the

Marvin: end of July and, you know, depending on where you are, I mean,

Marvin: I was amazed, you know, school systems in Tennessee are going back in like a week.

Marvin: That makes you start to think about fly fishing schools. And,

Marvin: you know, when it cools off, you're going to have some schools for folks, right?

Mac: Oh, yeah. Yeah, we're going to have some schools start in October and got some

Mac: casting schools in September.

Mac: I think there's still one spot in that left, and then the school's November.

Mac: So I'm looking forward to the fall. I'm looking forward to cooling down.

Mac: I'm going to be in Arkansas the first week of November for the club there in

Mac: Mountain Home for three days.

Mac: I'm looking forward to getting back down there and fishing there on the white and get to see Davey.

Mac: And of course, then we're going to do our Upper Peninsula thing again early

Mac: October for Kings in the Driftless area with Jason and Ed Engel and Jeff Currier.

Mac: There's a bunch of folks coming. There'll be a whole bunch of folks that I'm

Mac: looking forward to spending time with. That'll be a week. I think we'll stay up there a week.

Marvin: Yeah, and so I imagine what is Mack Brown Fly Fishes where they can go to figure

Marvin: out, find out about all the schools and stuff oh.

Mac: Yeah no no that is and they've got to read

Mac: it though i mean it's a little aggravating in july you know being tourist season

Mac: the people will call and ask you the first sentence on the page like if i just

Mac: took a minute to read what it says you know instead of calling i'd really appreciate

Mac: it because it's like you get a call it's like everything they ask is the first

Mac: paragraph if they just looked at the site you follow me the reason you make

Mac: a sites for what efficiency of time,

Mac: And so I don't mind saying that because I'm sure a lot of shops have the same problem.

Mac: It's like, dude, did you look at the website, you know?

Mac: No, I figured I'd just call and ask you. But yeah, it'd be better if they'd read it, you know?

Marvin: Yeah, so I guess what I'll say, you know, whether it goes for schools,

Marvin: clinics, or for guiding, you know, read it first.

Marvin: Then come. Yeah, and then come. And then as I always say, you owe it to yourself

Marvin: to get out there and catch a few.

Marvin: Tight lines, everybody. Tight lines, Mac.

Mac: Tight lines, Marvin.