Voiceover: [00:00:00] Digital Dominoes.

Angeline: Hello and welcome to another episode today I'm with Parag Patel from Kids Nanny in AI powered parental control app at must be really excited to talk to you Parag 'cause I have strong opinion about parental control.

Parag: Yeah. Thank you.

Angeline: So, uh, can you tell us a little bit about your app?

Parag: Yeah, we started this application back in India and then we incubated in Canada. So basically over right now our focus is to how to bring the parents and kids both under on the same table, because otherwise, to be successful as a parental control app, it's not possible in this world. I do believe that's what our experience so far.

Parag: So for that, what we are doing, we are prioritizing the privacy of the kids. At the same time using ai. So we do not need to share the much [00:01:00] information with the parents and somehow we able to deliver the summary or the parents, what parents looking for, let's say only just objects and the stuff to the parents, which won't compromise their kids's privacy.

Parag: So that's our motto. Our parental control app basically provide three steps each, always any parental control app. It's about control, it's about monitoring and providing the meaningful alerts, so as when you are, you know, prioritizing the privacy of the kids, the monitoring going with laser and then, and the alerts and the control have a higher priority.

Parag: We have a capability to, you know, identify the objects and stuff like bullying, extortion. Violence and three, four more categories on which we have developed the model for. So that's the one part. The second is we have our own age appropriate app [00:02:00] database, which alert the parents about unwanted apps based on the age, uh, kid stage.

Parag: And other features are see browsing, web blocking, web filtering. And all those are part of traditional parental control app, but the key is here, the screen scanner and the WhatsApp feature which you're providing. I guess

Angeline: I, I love what you said about respecting privacy, right? Because this is one of the things that I think is the bigger issues with how you manage parental controls while still teaching kids the need for, um.

Angeline: Their own privacy and independence. Right. So how do you find the balance between protecting them and helping them still have a private life online? Basically,

Parag: actually, as I told you before, to be a successful parental control app, kids should be confident. Kids should feel confident about using our app.

Parag: So first thing is the parent and kids should have [00:03:00] open dialogue about it and parents should be able to convince the kids that it's a dangerous world and this helps going to make you safer. It's not your attack on your privacy, but it's more or less, you know, keeping you safe online. Right? The second part, as I told you that how you are in our app, what we are doing is that we do not show the all the data what we are capturing to the parents.

Parag: Only the data gets filtered out by our AI models and only the. Parents unable. Let's say some parents are not worried about violence, but they might be worried about the pulling part and the self harm. So they do have a switch. They, when they enable those filter, only those data will be delivered to the parents.

Parag: So I mean. By open communication, by putting the configuration, I mean, both the parties will be confident while using our app.

Angeline: No, I can't say how much I love that. Yeah. I really, uh, because it seems like, uh, a new approach. I mean, I don't know, you know, the space of parental control apps [00:04:00] better than me. Yeah.

Angeline: But I always said and thought that this can only work if it. Both sides see the value. And that's the way I'm with my, my daughter as well. I have to tell her about the risks and because I'm never gonna be able to control where she goes. Yeah. And I just love that, and especially that the parents can also decide what kind of alerts that they get.

Angeline: So they also have the independence as a parent. So I mean. How has that like gone? What kind of challenges have you seen, like from different parenting styles? I mean, when we were preparing, we talked about, uh, you're in India, but you prepared the app in Canada and parenting styles are very different in, in those two cultures.

Angeline: Right?

Parag: So as I told you is when we started this app in India, when the concept comes in my mind, because I am a parent of two kids and I really from heart. Believe that this is the dangerous world and I think we have towards something which may keep our kids [00:05:00] safe because you cannot keep them away from the devices.

Parag: For sure. So, so initially we were more focused on the monitoring part, so. How much data we can give to the parents that parents can look into it. And so it was more about, you know, parent centric it, because in India there's three type of parenting. Um, this one is, uh, dominance parenting, I would say, I don't know the exact word about it, but second is that with, you know, open-minded parent who wanna, you know, have open conversation.

Parag: And third are their. Lazy parenting. I won't say that word, but, but the parent are, they don't much care about it. They are aware, but they, they just want to go with the flow and they're much not worried about it. Yeah. So in India, parent are more authoritarian style of parenting, so they will force the kids if, okay, I'm going to use all this there, make sure it's don't get deleted.

Parag: Yeah. You know, that's how. Working at in India as far as my experience concerned. But when [00:06:00] we, we wanted to sell this product to the west or we wanted to introduce our idea of the west country. So we went to the Canada and incubated in TBDC, but while getting all the feedback from the parents, we introduced around hundred parents there and, and then we realized it's a different world altogether.

Parag: So you have to bring both the parties on the table. It has to be privacy. I mean you have to be worried about the kids' privacy as well. And, and then we reshape our product and, and then we come up with that. We are reducing the monitoring part of the application and more about, you know, control and alert area.

Parag: We are focused and reshape our product.

Angeline: This aspect of the being the kids. I'll just repeat it 'cause it's just so profound. And what I ha don't hear very often is so the kids have to be on board so. At what point did you realize that, I mean, was it from the beginning, like in your philosophy or was that also from the feedback that you got?

Parag: Yeah, of course it was from feedback. We realized that initially the [00:07:00] app was getting installed, parent were happy, but it, it was not lasting longer. I mean, after a week or 10 days or something, these kids will find it out a way to uninstall it. They will find it out a way to have excuses, right? They will say that my particular app study app is not working properly.

Parag: It's getting blocked, blah, blah, blah. I mean, so only an analyst, both party on the same table and I, it's very hard to get success in given world.

Angeline: That's amazing. Is that one of the main issues that you have in behaviors because. This is one of the reasons that I always say that, and now I'm gonna say it differently, honestly, after talking to you that parental control doesn't work because the kids always find a way around.

Angeline: That's what I always say. There was one parent who told me she's, you know, it's impossible to keep the kids safe because they always, and her daughter has WhatsApp for studying. They give the homework in the study groups, and then she realized [00:08:00] that her daughter was spending tons of time on WhatsApp. Her friends were sharing the YouTube links.

Angeline: Onto WhatsApp and then she can watch the YouTube.

Parag: You actually,

Angeline: they're much like smarter than us and they share amongst themselves. So that's a common behavior. So I understand you, you're a solution is that they both had to be on board. Are there any other like common behaviors and challenges that, that you noticed that you help with your product

Parag: Apart from the kids' behavior?

Parag: I mean, we have also observed in the parent. Still different categories of parent here as well. So as I told you, some parents are really worried about the what's going on internet and they know it's a danger place, but somehow they are not able to use this kind of product. The reason, I believe that they believe that the kids might be respond with harder, I mean.

Parag: They won't like it or something like that. So if, if we find a way to convince the kids to use it, that's the best thing, which we can do [00:09:00] everything. And some parents are, as I told you, they are authoritarian and then push. Forward those two kids. And in Western countries, we have, as I told you, we have observed, we have interviewed 90 parents, nine zero, but out 20, 30.

Parag: Parents even they know everything. They, they know danger. They want to their kids, kids safe, but they are not willing to use the parental control just because they are worried that the kids will respond harder. I. I don't know the word, how to say that, but the kids won't be happy. And the, the relation between the parents and kids won't be the same as before.

Angeline: Ah, that's interesting. Yeah, I can see that. I'm thinking of parents and, and in this case, I mean, have you found a way to like convince them again, just go to the kids, right? And convince the kids you need controls? Is that your, your solution?

Parag: So we, we use two different papers. We, the parents a bit harder.

Parag: Is really dangerous thing. And I think being a [00:10:00] parent, we have to be proactive. We have to be, you know, at least if you're not monitoring you, you should place a shield or the, the kind of stuff that, I mean, it makes your, you want at least not a hundred percent, it, at least 80% that. The unwanted stuff don't comes on the screen.

Parag: Even the, it's coming. You know that What kind of stuff kids are watching? Let's say recent news, if, uh, if you're aware about in us, the 13, I guess 13-year-old girl take her life, right? Just because of she was getting bullied in school. So in that case, if parents have. It's kind of more, I mean they were observing their phones frequently or the solution like us, they were notified instantly.

Parag: I think it's have value. So convince the value of this kind of, that's the one aspect. The second is that we need to think how we can bring the kids and have confidence. This kind of, so what we have done is that cakes can collect the points I need, uh, reward, right? And that reward will be used to get [00:11:00] some extra screen time.

Parag: So what we have done, parents can put the daily task, like cleaning the room, uh, cleaning the bed, or is whatever they're feeling, I mean, as a family and if they're doing regularly. So our app will reward some points to that, and later on they'll use those reward to, you know, use the screen time when the downtime is running.

Parag: So it motivate them. They'll have some reason to use our app. So by doing all those tactics with the confidential kids as well. So

Angeline: I've heard that before, like the, the, the, I like that the rewards system,

Parag: rewards system will help if you see the kids who are really addicted to this screen. So we always suggest, not through the app, but whenever I have a chance to talk with the parents, I always suggest that addiction you won't make.

Parag: Go easily. So first thing, you have to put the controlling, obviously you have to put the screen time [00:12:00] at the same time. Reward it when they follow the rules and once they do get consistency that the safe estimate will, will, will grow slowly. And once you feel confident, and then you may remove the control if you feel so.

Parag: Initially lead a control. There's no alternative, I believe. And the reward system,

Angeline: well they, they actually, one of the reasons that they stay online is their reward system. Right?

Parag: Right.

Angeline: So if you do it in the other direction, that's a good one. Another thing that I. Is an issue with a lot of, you know, privacy conscious people is with, you know, something, an app like this, what happens to the data, like the kids data?

Angeline: Because on the one hand you are giving the company, your company, for example, a lot of, a lot of information about like the kids. How do you manage that? Uh, without naming any apps, some of them are. Very well known, but also well known that they have tons of data on the kids, which I mean, they don't abuse it, but [00:13:00] could be abused, you know, if it falls into the wrong hands.

Angeline: So how do you solve that?

Parag: I think these, the most critical aspect of any parent doesn't there and, and I think it's that particular question, need to be answered at most serious way. See, initially the way what we are doing right now, we each, whenever the parent sign up, each parent device will generate the its own.

Parag: Its own password and that password will be shared across the child devices. It's it's internal protocol and, and whatever the child device upload to those server will encrypted using that particular parent's ID or parent's password. What they have shared security basically. So whatever the media we are storing, all are the encrypted and when the parents choose to.

Parag: Watch it or view it, then the media encrypting media will download it on the parent's device and then it'll decrypt it on the parent device on. So that's what we are doing. But still, you are playing with the data, right? And it's a world, cyber world. I mean, [00:14:00] it's, your system can attack a time. So now what we are planning to do in couple of months is that don't bring any deep data from the kids device.

Parag: Unless, and unless it's very tickle and you want to deliver to that. So what we are doing, we are developing on HDI models, which we going to run on the kids phone. So let's say our screen scanner feature, it's constantly take a screenshot of the kids device and analyze it. And if it's there any text or visual, which is, uh, objects enabled, it'll be notified to the parents.

Parag: So what we are going to do is now we'll run a model on a age device. It'll capture, captured will be processed locally on the device itself. If it's that anything, even the 70%, then only it'll leave the device and process from the server for a better, better accuracy. And they need to deliver together. So by doing that, we will collect as minimum as possible data.

Parag: So that's one of the approach we are going.

Angeline: I love it. And I love you said this is the [00:15:00] most critical thing of, of parental controls because if you go about this wrong, because you're teaching your kids that it's okay to be in a surveillance state, right? For your own good. Yeah. And it's something that you're, you're trying to solve with the on-device.

Angeline: Do you have any other like stories or, uh, anything you want to share?

Parag: In our early days when I told you that we are more focusing on the monitoring part than one mother came to us and they wrote a me mail to us that due to your app, it save my girls to follow in the drugs That was our war. It might, she might have find out some.

Parag: What's the messages or the text which, and then then the mother acted and she felt that she saved her girl by pulling the drugs. That was the word we heard. So this kind of incident always motivate you, you know, to towards the cause. Yeah.

Angeline: Wow. That's amazing.

Parag: And I have one case, I will tell you just a minute.

Parag: If you see the child. Abuse [00:16:00] material, child sexual abuse material. I mean, it's one of the key concern in the internet as well. So for that particular problem, we come up with the idea. So most of those material get generated from child phone itself. So we have find out the way, how we can draw or generation itself.

Parag: Let's say you have a child, have a smartphone, right? So most of the time the material will be generated from the child's phone camera. Right. So what we are planning to deliver is that whenever that camera app comes up, our application always keeps scanning the screen and if you find anything, you'll block it right away.

Parag: So even it won't allow to the capture generation of those kind of data. So the product called the Watch Shield, we are trying to achieve the same part actually, whenever there any media coming out of your kids' WhatsApp. We'll delete it right away. We're just trying to find it out, which really make impact.

Angeline: That's interesting. And [00:17:00] it's hard to know what to say 'cause that's such a. A complex issue and, and a lot of this solution relies on somehow someone figuring it out and stopping it. Yeah. You know, like I, Instagram and Meta was so proud of, you know, are you sure you know what they're gonna send? And it's like, well, if they've gotten so far and they think they're gonna send a nude, then of course they're gonna be sure.

Angeline: So I like that. Yeah. You can't, they just don't have the chance to send it. Or, or they're, even if they're being. Manipulate it because that's often issue right then. Then it doesn't matter what the person says to them, they won't be able to produce the content by themselves. Yeah. So I really like that. One thing that I am sure is an issue is a tendency to abuse.

Angeline: Or misuse the parental controls from some parents, I hope. Is that something that, that you've seen? Do you have that, that people will want to abuse it in a way to like [00:18:00] control their, their kids

Parag: actually, once you are in care of the privacy of the kids? I think mostly you'll answer this question. So that's the one thing I see and I, I would suggest when you prioritizing safety instead of monitoring.

Parag: When you digital literacy, when you focus on digital literacy instead of restrictions, when you explain your kids that why you're blocking particular that, right? You explain the reason to the pay. I mean kids that you have to do that. I mean, but that's a way you can, you know, distinguish the two different thing, overusing the parenter control and you know, using parenter control right way.

Parag: I mean those three, four things, if you in front of you, then you. To judge yourself that are using it all you are, it's the right way.

Angeline: Perfect. And, uh, we're, we're actually outta time. And I think that's the perfect way to end it because that it Exactly, you create a dialogue and you create mutual respect.

Angeline: And I just, I [00:19:00] also think that's the only way because. The digital natives. Some people don't like that term. You know, the youngest generations who grew up in the digital world are gonna know more. They are gonna figure it out and it needs to be, uh, respectful. I love it. Yeah. And so thank you so much

Parag: we are yet in early stage and we are keep maturing it.

Parag: Day by day. And I would say get the Android one. I mean we are better in Android.

Angeline: Glad to hear it. I have Android, so, uh, usually it's the other way around. Like first they do iPhone. And then thank you so much. And I really, uh, I'm looking forward to more, uh, parents finding out about this. Yeah. 'cause it's right in line with and empowerment.

Parag: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Angeline: And that brings us to the end of this episode of Digital Dominoes. We hope you've enjoyed learning about another piece of the puzzle that makes up the vast and complex digital world. Remember, you can find all our episodes and more at digi-dominoes.com. We are [00:20:00] always eager to hear your thoughts, so drop us a line and let us know what you think.

Angeline: And if you've got an idea for our future domino, please reach out. Don't forget to like and subscribe. And until next time, remember that each domino doesn't stand alone, but that each one has the power to affect. The others

Voiceover: digital dominoes.