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Coretta Brown will be entering her fifth season as a women's basketball assistant coach at Eastern Kentucky University.

She previously served two seasons as an assistant at Georgia Southern University.

Before her time at Georgia Southern, Brown was an assistant at the University of west Alabama from 2017 to 2019.

Brown launched a new program when she became the first head coach at Thomas University.

From 2012 to 2017.

At Thomas, Brown coached four all conference players, one freshman of the year, one academic all conference, two Daktronic NAI scholar athletes and one honorable mention all American.

She has also had stops at Tennessee Tech, the Georgia High School Athletics Association, Georgia Tech and the Women's Basketball Coaches Association.

Brown graduated from the University of North Carolina in 2003, where she received a Bachelor of Arts degree in African American Studies with a minor in English.

She holds the UNC record for three point shots made with 251, which ranks third in ACC history.

Brown was drafted 11th overall by the San Antonio Silver Stars in the 2003 WNBA Draft before getting traded to the Indiana Fever, where she played for three seasons.

She played her final two years with the Chicago Sky.

Brown traveled internationally during the WNBA offseason and competed in the FIBA World Championship Tournament in Russia for Team USA.

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Have a notebook and pen by your side as you listen to this episode with Coretta Brown, women's basketball assistant coach at Eastern Kentucky University.

Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast.

It's Mike Cleansing here without my co host Jason Sunkel tonight, but I am pleased to be joined by Coretta Brown, women's basketball assistant coach at Eastern Kentucky University.

Coretta, welcome to the Hoop Headspot.

Oh, thanks for having me, Mike.

Thrilled to have you on.

Looking forward to diving into all the interesting things that you've been able to do in your career.

Let's start by going back in time to when you were a kid.

Tell me about some of your first experiences with the game of basketball.

What made you fall in love with it?

It's kind of like love at first sight, I guess you could call it.

I was introduced to the game at 5 by my neighbors and I grew up typical country girl, grew up playing against guys, got roughed up, bruises, you name it.

And I just loved every part of it, every part of the game.

So I've been literally, love at first sight is the best way I could describe it.

So when you were a kid, did you grow up playing other sports in the neighborhood besides basketball, or was it just basketball as your first love and kind of always stayed there?

I tried, you know, I tried everything from the softball, the baseball.

They wanted me to join the soccer team and it was just always basketball.

Like when I say literally I was that kid that would just walk around with a basketball in hand, that was me.

It was just strictly basketball.

All right, so as you develop your passion for the game, as you start to go from elementary school to middle school, junior high, high school, how do you go about improving yourself as a player?

How do you balance out working by yourself on your game versus finding pickup games in the neighborhood versus eventually getting and playing some summer AAU stuff, which I know back in the time when you were playing, just like for me it was a quite different looking AAU landscape.

But just what was your process for getting better as a young player in the game?

It was like you said, just constantly playing, you know, trying to find the pickup games wherever I could, you know.

And like I said, all of my neighbors were all guys and they were really the only ones outside.

And so whether it was my neighbor to my right or to my left or across the street, wherever it was.

I was just trying to find that game.

And even back then, look at it now, I'm about to date myself, but I used to watch VHS tapes on Michael Jordan.

And so for me, I would study those tapes.

And then I'm going to my backyard, which was a dirt court, and I'm going and trying to mimic every move that I just saw so that the next pickup game best believe you're about to see this move that Michael Jordan just did.

And I'm probably going to put my tongue out too, if I make it, you know.

So it was kind of just, you know, just that constant rotation of studying and watching games, you know, on the TV and going out back, working on my ball handler, whatever move I just saw on the TV and then trying to implement it by just playing.

Really.

Did you have an adult in your life?

Whether an early coach, a parent, somebody that kind of took you under their wing?

From a basketball perspective.

I would say really my high school coaches, so I had two at the time, they were both guys who were very passionate about the game.

And you know, I think they taught me what they knew at that time.

And like you said, the AAU landscape was different.

So I grew up in Neville's, Georgia, which super small town.

We had one stop sign.

That's it, that's how small the town was.

And I would have to drive to Atlanta to like actually play in tournaments.

And so I think for me, playing on that bigger circuit of aau, you know, because back then you didn't have a million AAU teams, you had had to actually like make the team and so exactly, you know, playing against those talented players and you know, from my hometown, okay, yeah, I'm all world, but you're going to Atlanta and you, you forgot about this girl over here in Thomasville, Georgia.

That's all world in Thomasville, you know, so it was kind of, I opened it to me like, oh man, like maybe I need to start doing some extra push ups and get my dad weights or something because it's a whole level of the game that I haven't even seen yet.

When you think about the way that you grew up in the game and the way you developed and then you think about the way that the girls that you're coaching on the college level today, how they came up in the game, how do you sort of compare and contrast and not saying that one is better than the other, but just thinking about the differences between the way that you grew up in the game versus the way players come up in the game today.

Yeah, I honestly and I try to implement it, you know, where I'm at now, even as a coach, you can't.

It's no substitute for playing, you know, and I'm a huge player development.

Like, that's my niche.

I love player development on and off the court, but it's just no substitute for playing the game.

Like, that's what we're all working towards at the end of the day.

So even now with all of the machines and gadgets that we have for training that of course I didn't have the privy of, it's always going to come back to, okay, can this translate to the actual game?

Like, you're working on this for the actual game.

And so we play like even when our player development here, we do tunnel 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v3, you name it.

Because at the end of the day, like that's the actual game.

You can't substitute that.

That is so true.

And I think that it's one of the things when I talk to coaches and when I think about my own upbringing in the game and I graduated from high school in 1988 and graduated from college in 1992, so we're talking a long, long time ago.

But I always tell people that I feel like my development as a player and I spent plenty of time on my own in the gym working on my game.

But I feel like a lot of what made me a good player and helped me to develop a high basketball IQ was just like you playing the game and learning to be able to read things and be put in different situations and have different roles on teams, depending on how old I was and what park or what gym I was in and where I ranked in the hierarchy of the players who are on that court, and that just allowed me to be able to develop skills and just ways of reading the game that I don't think, as you said, you can't really get that from a drill.

You can't really get that from a trainer.

You can't really get that from just going and being in a workout by yourself and working on your shot or working with the shooting machine or whatever it might be.

And so I always feel like that's the one thing whenever I talk to coaches, they always talk about how in their practices and the things that they try to do that they always are trying to give players the opportunity to play the game in a practice setting with decision making involved in it, simply because again, Players today, I don't think play as much in terms of pickup basketball as players from the era where you grew up in or the era that I grew up in where we were just playing pickup basketball all the time.

And you could pick up some of those subtleties of the game.

Nowadays, kids are always playing right.

There's a scoreboard, there's a coach on the sideline, their parents are probably watching.

So the ability to maybe experiment the way you did on the dirt court in your backyard and just trying to emulate Michael Jordan's moves.

Not many kids are doing that same thing today anymore.

And it's just interesting when you think about how the game used to be and then you think about coaching and trying to develop those same skills, those same IQ type things as a coach, that it still comes back to playing the game, which I, which I always find to be interesting.

So how do you think about that in terms of designing your practice?

And I'm kind of jumping a little bit ahead, but just want to get your thought on that as, as a coach, how you put together a practice to kind of help players develop that iq, that feel for the game.

Yeah, so it's kind of like what I said I used to do growing up, you know, and how I kind of introduced myself to the game, you know, by watching the film, working on it, individually skilled, and then implementing it to the game, you know, so it's the same with the players.

We're going to meet them where they are.

Okay, this is where you are today.

Tomorrow, this is where we're going to be.

We're going to watch film on it, on the workouts.

We're going to work on it individually, doing the individual workouts.

And then we're going to put it in an actual live game setting so that you can understand and get the feel and get comfortable.

Because at the end of the day, that's, that's what it's really about.

Like if you're watching these NBA finals, SGA looks so comfortable.

Like he never looks uncomfortable on the court, you know, like he's just so comfortable out there.

And I think that's, that's where the confidence comes, like when you're, when you're working on the individual skills and then you implement it to a game and you can see like how it's working.

It becomes like a drug.

Like you just become addicted to that, that process of the continual knowledge and you know, like, I think all of the great ones have it, you know, they have it like LeBron has that drug.

Michael Jordan had it.

Colby, rest in peace, he had it.

Like they're just so addicted to that continual growth.

And for me, you know, having played and now coaching, that's what it looks like.

You watch it, you study it, you work on it individually.

But at the end of the day, it comes back to that, that live 5v5 play.

I think that the correlation between those two things that you just talked about in terms of you've got to be able to put in the work, as you said, it's sort of a process to go through it individually first and then be able to incorporate that into the team.

And then by putting in all that work, all the guys you just mentioned, right, what are they known for?

Their semi maniacal work ethic of just putting in the time, putting in the time, putting in the time.

And you put in enough time, and that time eventually translates into confidence.

Like so often.

And I've done a lot of stuff with youth players and a lot of times parents would come to me and say, well, they know how to do this in practice, but they're just not confident enough to do it in a game.

And my response was always, well, they just have to keep getting better.

And eventually, as they get better, that's where your confidence comes from.

Sometimes you shouldn't be confident because your skills don't warrant that confidence.

And I think what you're talking about is giving your players an opportunity to work on their skills to the point that when they get into the game, they have that comfort level like you're describing with Shea in the finals and that type of thing where a player looks like they're not doing this for the first time.

They've already done this hundreds or thousands of times in practice, and that's why they look so comfortable on the floor.

I'm really huge on that.

You know, I always tell my players, you know, in the game of basketball, much like the game of life, anything becomes a fundamental if you work on it enough.

Like anything.

You know, like, I didn't get.

I didn't get my D1 scholarship by being a shooter.

I wasn't.

I just love the game.

And like you said, I work my behind off.

Like I was literally addicted to the game.

And I just loved the game.

And I worked hard.

I didn't become a shooter until about my junior or sophomore, sophomore, junior year.

Cause I grew up playing against guys.

I had the ugliest form you could have ever seen in a game of basketball.

It was.

It was horrific.

Like, it was the worst form ever known in basketball.

And so I had to work on that.

Like, it took me about two years to actually work on form shooting because it was so bad, because I used to get my shot blocked.

You know, I'm this skinny five five little guard, little girl out there playing against guys.

Like, they would send my shot to the trees every day.

So I had to get creative on how to get it off.

And that was my shot when I got to college.

So it's no substitute for that time.

And like I said, you know, anything becomes a habit.

Like, most of the jobs in America can be taught.

And so anything that you do on that court, if you work on it long enough, it's going to become a habit.

That's why you see players like Damian Lillard pulling up from half court to the average basketball player.

They're like, oh, crap, he probably does that every day.

It's like a layup to him.

No doubt that time, time, always time on the practice court translates into confidence on the game court.

I don't think there is.

I don't think there's any doubt about that.

All right, going back to you as a high school player, what do you remember as being your favorite memory, your favorite moment from playing high school basketball?

Oh, man, it's a lot of good memories in high school.

I mean, from the people, the administration.

It was just a time we played in basically a barn.

I just remember it being so hot in that gym and it was standing room only for every game.

My favorite memory would probably be when we won the regional championship, I believe.

I think it was regional.

It was like double overtime.

I think I had, like 44 points or something like that.

And I was so oblivious to, like, what was going on.

Right.

Like, all I knew was we needed to win to go to state.

That's all I knew.

But it was like this huge, big deal.

Like, I just remember being so hot in there and all the news reporters and I mean, it was just so amazing to be able to share that, you know, with all of my friends.

We're still friends to this day, to be able to share that with them.

Like, it was just a time, you know?

And again, like, for me, I just love the game.

You know, forget the magnitude and all of the other stuff that was going on.

I just.

I was out there doing what I love with my friends.

Like, that's what I remember most about my playing days in high school was just being able to play and share the game with genuine people who are just literally still in my life to this day.

That's why we all fall in love with the game, right?

Sometimes we forget that the game's supposed to be fun and oftentimes we're doing it hopefully with teammates that we love, that we care about.

And I mean, it's just, I think sometimes it's easy to lose sight of that sometimes in the day to day moments of a season, especially as you well know, coaching at the college level and the pressure to win that goes along with that and the constantly having to think about, especially in today's era, the recruiting and just the day to day and all the stuff that don't, doesn't even have anything to do with basketball.

But I think what you just said there about you and your high school experience and your high school teammates, that you just were doing something that you loved and doing it with people that you love that you're still connected with to this day.

To me, that's, that's almost the essence of what, of what you want a basketball experience to be for somebody.

I think it's a really, really good description of an ideal basketball setting, Coretta.

I agree.

And I think with anything like even if you're talking corporate America, anytime you're dealing with people, that connection is so key.

Right.

And so for me in high school, like I had that connection with my teammates.

Like we were, we would get the little tattoos that you put the water, the little fake tattoos.

Like, oh yeah, we would do that and hey, let's all do our hair the same.

Like it was a genuine connection that we had.

You know, we would leave practices and go to one of my teammates house because her mom made cookies.

You know, like it was just, it was a time.

And so, you know, yeah, like we won and we went to state and we did all those things.

But that's what I remember the most was that connection.

And that's why we're still friends to this day.

X amount of years later.

When did college basketball get on your radar?

Was that something that you grew up dreaming about?

I, I grew up playing in the, dreaming about playing in the NBA.

So my mind was a little different again.

I studied Michael Jordan.

So in my mind I was going to be the first female Michael Jordan to play in the NBA.

And it just made sense to me.

Right?

Absolutely.

Yeah, it made sense.

And so college kind of came into the radar.

Probably I would say my eighth grade, around eighth, ninth grade, because I played up eighth grade.

I was still, still playing on the varsity level.

And I'll never forget my ninth grade.

Day one of my ninth grade year.

I walk in and I had this big letter on my desk from uga, because, again, I grew up in Georgia, so uga, a ton of alumni that worked at my school.

Like, everybody was wanting me to go be a Bulldog, right?

And so I walk in and I see that letter, and I'm just, like, smiling.

Oh, my God, it's about to be the best year ever.

UGA is recruiting me.

I'm going to go be a Bulldog.

Life is amazing.

And so that's, you know, that's what I remember most about my ninth grade year.

And shout out to the Bulldogs.

But I think I chose right.

Did Michael Jordan have anything to do with your choice?

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

I mean, you gotta think I grew up watching his VHS tapes, you know, like, he's my goat.

He's still my goat to this day.

And it doesn't hurt on your recruiting visit when you run into Vince Carter on Franklin street, you know, like, that'll work.

Yeah, no, that does not.

That does not.

That does not hurt at all.

So what's funny is, Coretta, I grew up here in Cleveland, Ohio, and for whatever reason, I go all the way back to the 1980 North Carolina team.

And then obviously, the Jordan shot, when he makes that shot in 81.

I'm 11 years old, and I just get hooked on Carolina basketball from that point on.

And I had Jordan Carolina stuff all over my house.

And when he went to the Bulls, had Jordan stuff all over the place.

And so when I think about me as a college basketball fan, and obviously during that era, college basketball was probably close to, if not the equal of the NBA in terms of notoriety and just the players and the game was different.

And that guy stayed for longer at schools, and you didn't have the transfers and all the stuff that we have today.

And I just, again, I grew up, grew up as a huge North Carolina fan.

And I went.

My family would go on vacation to.

And this tells you what this, this we.

You talked about dating yourself.

So I'm going to date myself now.

And when people hear this story.

So we used to go on vacation.

I.

To Hilton Head Island, South Carolina.

I think we went for the first time maybe when I was who maybe 11 or 12.

So we're talking like 81, 82, right in the range when Jordan's at Carolina.

And I wanted so badly to get a Michael Jordan North Carolina jersey.

Well, of course, today you just.

I could order it.

It could be at my house in two hours from 40 million different websites.

At that time, you couldn't find it any store.

So we would drive and literally, I would make my family get off the highway and we'd stop, like, at department stores, and they'd have North Carolina basketball stuff, or, you know, there'd be T shirts or sweatshirts, but I could never, for, like, five years straight, would get off and we'd search all these stores that could never find a North Carolina Michael Jordan jersey.

But I would make the family stop every year.

I'm like, we got to get off and see if we can find one.

There's got to.

There's got to be one out here.

So I can totally relate to your desire and eventually getting the opportunity to go and play at North Carolina.

So talk about that decision and just what the recruiting process was like for you.

The recruiting process, it was.

It was brutal, you know, and, you know, you got to know my mom.

I was.

She was one of those mothers that I had to talk to every coach back then.

They mailed the questionnaires.

I had to fill out every questionnaire and send it back, regardless of who it was.

And so it was like.

It felt like a job, you know?

So coming into my senior year, I knew without a doubt that I was going to sign and commit early because I'm like, yeah, I'm not doing this another year, Mom.

I'm committing early and getting this over with.

So that was my recruiting process.

It's just a lot of letters, a lot of calls.

And, you know, I ended up choosing Carolina.

Back then, I think we had five visits.

I forget who they were.

I know I had Carolina, Duke.

I want to say I had ucla, Kentucky, and I forget the fifth one, but I only took one visit.

I took one visit to Carolina.

And it's so funny because I was scheduled to go to Duke the very next weekend, and I think I ended up calling Carolina about two days after the visit and said, hey, I'm coming.

It's funny sometimes how you set foot on campus and you just know my daughter, who.

Go ahead.

You know, it's.

It's like I said, you know, growing up a huge Michael Jordan fan.

So of course they.

They played off of that.

And I think just being there and, you know, it's like, okay, this is what Michael Jordan did.

Like, the goat played here, you know, like, I'm going to be playing, like, where he actually played and, like, wearing his shoe, like, actually wearing his brand.

And then you meet the Vince Carters of the world, and then you learn the knowledge of the 94 team.

Like, hey, they actually won a championship back in 94.

And I'm like, oh, man.

Like, this is.

This is amazing.

And I think the thing that really sold it for me, like, you talked about the connection with my high school players that I had.

Like, on the visit, it just felt like home, you know?

And it's.

It's hard to describe, but it's just.

I just had that feeling that my parents were there.

My mom felt it, too.

Like, it was just genuine.

Like, these are gonna be family.

And, like, even the upperclassmen who were on the visit that I never played with were still cool to this day.

Like, we literally still talk.

Like, they'll call me and, hey, my daughter's playing.

What do you think about this?

Call me and ask me for coaching advice and stuff like that.

So it's just.

It's still that family feel to this day, and I'm a huge family person.

It's always been like that, even in high school.

And I think that's really the thing that sold me on Carolina.

Like, even with our men's team, it's legit a family.

You know, you mentioned you being from Cleveland.

Mike Shout Out.

Jawah Williams.

He's just got the assistant job with the Cleveland Cavaliers.

That's another Tar Heel, you know, so it's a.

It's a real family.

And I think that's one of the things that's so beautiful about it, and I hope it continues with this new landscape of the ncaa.

And, you know, people only been there for a year, but, you know, if you stay, it's a.

It's some great connections that can come out of it.

Definitely, it's going to be interesting.

That's one of the things that I think, from talking to coaches on the podcast and off, that lots of people at all levels of the game have talked to me about, in terms of just, can we continue to develop that same family atmosphere, that same connection between players?

If players are staying for a year, staying for two years, and moving into the portal so quickly?

And I think that's one of the areas that coaches are.

I don't know if struggling is the right word, but they're just trying to figure out how to navigate that so they can make sure that they continue to build the kind of team culture and camaraderie and connection.

Like, when I hear you talk and about your high school teammates, about the experience that you had at North Carolina and the connection that you still feel goes back to what I said earlier.

That's the kind of experience that you want, like the.

The wins and losses.

Don't get me wrong.

Everybody likes to win.

I like to win.

You like to win.

But ultimately, when you think back about your experience, the individual games kind of fade away into the background.

And in the moment, those are the most important things.

Right.

Like when you were playing, I'm sure.

And even while you're coaching, like in the moment, winning or losing that game or your performance as a player, that's the foremost thing on your mind.

And yet when you look back at it after having time to have had a perspective, I think that those wins and losses kind of fade into the background.

And what you really think about is who were the people I was doing that with and what was the atmosphere like?

And I don't know if I'm describing accurately kind of what you felt, but that's kind of how I look back on my experiences.

Yeah, I.

I remember the wins, I remember the losses.

I remember the successful seasons, maybe the ones that we weren't as successful.

But what I mostly remember is the people that I did it with and what that experience was like.

So I don't know if that's describing accurately kind of how you feel about things.

Absolutely.

You know, it's.

It's kind of goes like that saying, you know, people never forget how you made them feel.

And so kind of how I.

How I.

My approach to it now, you know, even with the transfer portal, you know, I may have a.

I may be in a young lady's life for not even a year.

We're talking a couple of months.

Right.

You know, it's that commitment.

You know, it's that commitment to them that even when they start their professional careers overseas, you know, and I actually just text in the.

Not too long ago with a player that I coached about five years ago, hey, you know, this is what I'm seeing.

Or they may call, hey, Coach, I got this question, you know, like, they still call me coach to this day.

Even the players that I coached over a decade ago, like, every time they, hey, coach.

You know, like, you're.

You're forever coach to them.

So.

And so I think it's that commitment to them, you know, and that's where, like, even today, I've challenged a lot of my.

My co workers, you know, even the ones who are really good coaches who are thinking about, you know, I don't know if I want to do this anymore, thinking about getting out of the game.

My rebuttal is always, well, a.

Why.

Why did you get into it?

You know, and if you got into it for that connection to help these individuals grow again, I'M really big on player development.

Like, that need is still there, whether it's for a year, two years, or three years, if you got a player that's willing to listen and that wants it, like, they need us.

They need good coaches.

They need good mentors in their life.

And so that doesn't go away.

Whether you're coaching them or not, you still have something that you can bring of value to that individual.

And so whether you coach them for a year, 2, 3, 4, shoot now 5, 6, you kind of owe that to them.

You owe that to the game to be there for them.

Because I know for me, that's what I had growing up.

You know, I actually just had the opportunity to.

He's a great mentor of mine now, but Andrew Calder, he was my position coach at the University of North Carolina, mastermind of the game.

And I still call him to this day.

Sylvia Crawley, who coached me at Carolina, I still call her to this day, you know, with, hey, you know, this is, this is what's going on.

We're struggling in this area.

What can you see?

Because, you know, kind of like my players are doing to me, in my mind, and he's going to always be coach, you know, like, even though he doesn't even coach anymore.

But that's kind of how I know him.

And that role doesn't change.

So I think even now with the transfers and stuff, again, like those players, they, you know, nobody just comes into the game winning, nobody comes into the game greatness.

Somebody's going to help you along the way to do that, you know, and I've been so honored to be able to coach some of these young laders, to have the opportunity to help them do that, to help them get that overseas contract and not just get it for one year, but continue to stay over there and thrive in it.

So I've been super blessed to be able to do that.

And I don't take that role lightly.

Yeah, it's so true.

I love what you said in terms of asking somebody, well, if you want to get out, why did you want to get in?

And I always come back to what you described there as being able to use the game of basketball to be able to make an impact on the young people that your coaching.

And then that impact doesn't only last for the nine months or the four years or the whatever number of whatever amount of time that you end up actually coaching and having interaction with that, with that player, with that young person.

But that influence lasts a lifetime.

And I love when you talked about Calling someone coach, right?

That your players who you had 15, 20 years ago, that when you had them they were 19, 20 year old kids and now they're adults and you're an adult and yet they still call you coach.

And I know, I feel the same way.

I had a kid who, and again, I just described him as a kid.

I coached him in high school.

He graduated from high school in 1999 and he sent me a text like two days ago and just said, hey coach, wanted to let you know that my college team is getting elected as a group to our college hall of fame.

And just wanted to let you know and say thanks because you were a huge part of my journey and just called me coach and whatever he's, I don't know how old he is, 40 years old now at this point and still call him co, still calls me coach.

And conversely I have coaches that I had, whether it was high school or college when I see them and I'm a 55 year old man and I still, I still would never, would never call them by their first name, would never say, hey Mr.

So and so it always just hey coach, how you doing?

And I think that there's just that, it's just that sign of respect and knowing what those guys did for me, not only in my playing career as a basketball player, but also just as a human being and the impact that they had on me.

And I can just feel as you're talking how important that piece of it is to you to be able to have an impact on the young women that you get an opportunity to interact with day in and day out.

It's a powerful thing.

Not everybody gets to use something that he loved to be able to have an impact on people.

And that's something I always come back to over and over again when it comes to the coaching profession.

Oh man, it's, it's like the gift that keeps on giving, you know.

Absolutely.

Whether I'm getting paid or not.

Like I would be doing this, like even if I work at a bank, I'd be coaching somebody rec league or something, you know, and it's kind of like what you said earlier, Mike, you know, the, the wins matter.

Of course, every coach wants to win, but it's that, that development, like that's really the, the matrix, you know, like that's, that's what it should be judged on.

And you don't forget that, like I don't forget how my game grew under my coach, you know, and so for my players, that's what I want Them to remember, like, man, or even off the court, like, man, I was really struggling mentally with this.

And, you know, I remember Coach Brown calling and checking on me and, you know, popping up on me at my apartment to make sure I was good.

Like, that's what they're going to remember.

That and the trips.

They always remember the trips, for sure.

No doub.

No doubt about that.

The.

The time in the hotel and on the bus or on the plane or in the airport or whatever.

Yeah, those are.

Those are some of my best memories, for sure.

As a player, there's no question.

Was coaching on your radar at all while you were playing, or were you strictly focused on trying to be the best player that you could?

And obviously you had a great career at North Carolina.

We'll talk about your experience playing in the WNBA here in a minute.

So clearly the level of play that you were able to reach was higher than most players.

But were you at all thinking about coaching during your playing career, or was that something that you didn't think about until you were all done?

Absolutely.

I kind of thought about it a little bit.

Probably around my junior.

My junior year in college, of course, senior year, you know, I'm strictly focused on going pro, I guess, strictly WNBA at that time.

And so while I'm playing in the wnba, it was really cool.

They actually had a WNBA internships that they used to do back then to where current players would have an opportunity in the off season to go internship with different companies.

It was really, really cool.

And you were still paid through the wnba.

And so I chose to go and work for the wbca, which is the Women's Basketball Coaches Association.

That was an internship for them in Atlanta.

And, you know, just being in that office, you know, with the.

The Bettys of the world, like, who are pioneers in the game of women's basketball coaches, you know, I was like, okay, I think I do kind of want to do this coaching thing when I'm done playing, you know, but back then, you know, I'm still.

I'm still young, you know, I didn't have that much body fat, so I'm like, this is far down the line.

Right, right, exactly.

Exactly.

Like, this is far down the line.

But this is cool.

This is cool to think about.

And so, yeah, you know, I, I think doing that internship, I kind of, you know, because you're on the phone, I'm talking with the different coaches, and I'm like, yeah, I.

I think coaching is definitely going to be in the calling for me.

And, and it was.

Was It.

The people.

And just.

I'm trying to think of the right way to phrase it.

Just.

Did you feel like those were your people when you were talking to coaches?

Like, yeah, I want to be able to have these conversations eventually for the rest of my life.

I think it was just the love for the game, you know, because I.

I knew that.

I knew the ball was going to stop bouncing at some point.

Right.

You know, for me, unfortunately, it stopped a little earlier than I would like with the injuries, but I'm just like.

And that's why I love the program that the WNBA had.

It was kind of like, what's next after you finish playing?

Which, you know, when I'm 18, 19, I'm not thinking about that.

I'm going to play for sure.

Right.

Like, I'm going to be the female LeBron.

And playing at 40 didn't happen.

It was so far down, it wasn't even close, you know?

And so I think doing that internship with them, it was like, okay.

Like, maybe I do need to start thinking about this.

And so for me, it was okay.

Whenever I'm done playing or I can't play anymore, you know, this is going to be my foundation, you know, to start building my networking with these coaches.

And so for me, it was kind of like that.

That segue into coaching in almost the two decades that I've been doing it now.

All right, before we get into that transition from playing to coaching, let's talk a little bit about your experience in the wnba.

Tell me about the process going from you finish at North Carolina.

Now it's time for you to embark on a professional career.

What did that look like in terms of, did you hire an agent?

What was the process like?

How did you end up figuring out what you needed to do, how you needed to do it?

Who helped you?

Who helped guide you along the way and sort of got you to where you needed to go, and then we can talk about your actual playing experience in the league.

Yeah.

So senior year started out, I felt the weight of everything, you know, because, again, like, I've always just wanted to play and, you know, have fun, compete all of that.

Well, senior year, now you're up for this award and this and this, and you're top 10 in this and all of the accolades, and this person wants to interview.

So it's just like, whoa, a lot of pressure with that.

And so my coach at the time, Sylvia Crawley, she actually kind of stepped in, and I ended up signing with her agent.

And I think that kind of alleviated some of the pressure.

I remember meeting with the coaches, and they're like, hey, like, nothing's changed.

Like, let us help you take this off.

Like, you don't have to worry about signing with an agent right away.

Like, you just continue to focus on basketball, and at the end of the season, we can revisit this, which, for me, you know, again, you think back to my senior year in high school.

I want to come in early because I just want to be focused on the actual game.

So I signed with an agent.

I remember draft night.

I tell this story a lot.

So draft night is not, like the big draft party that you see now on tv.

I think they only invited, like, five people from my class.

And you had to, like, track it on your laptop.

So I'm actually in my dorm room.

This is a true story.

It's senior year.

I'm actually in my dorm room.

I'm doing laundry.

I am doing laundry.

I get a call.

I go downstairs, I get my clothes out of the dryer, put the next load in the dryer.

I come back up, I see my agent is.

Called me.

I called her back, and I'm like, hey, what's going on?

She was like, what are you doing?

It's like, I'm doing laundry.

And she just bust out laughing.

She's like, you're doing what?

I'm like, I'm doing laundry.

Somebody got to do it.

Like, I got to do my laundry.

Like, what are you talking about?

She was like, well, you just got drafted.

First round, 11th pick.

And I was like, oh, wow, that's pretty cool.

And she was like, that's it.

I don't know what she was expecting, but I was just like, well, yeah, like, I haven't been working my butt off or nothing.

I'm like, okay, when do I leave?

When do I fly out?

So I just remember that being my senior year, you know, again, it's about, like, high school, you know, we're playing for the region championship.

And I'm just like, okay, this is what we gotta do to get this.

It was kind of that same mentality on draft night.

It was just like, okay.

Like, I put the work in.

Like, I think it's gonna be good enough.

I got the call.

Hey, it was good enough.

I'm like, okay, let's.

Let's get to work now.

I gotta go there and, you know, I got to put up rookie numbers, and I got to go make the USA Basketball League.

Like, for me, it was always, okay, yes, check what's next, right?

It's always the what's next?

But tell me about the experience of playing in the league.

What, what was your favorite part of being a professional basketball player?

Oh, man, it was not.

Not in the sense that you've arrived, but it was just like, man, like you're really living your dream, you know, like all those days of playing in your backyard in the rain and getting yelled at by mom to come inside because it's too dark outside, you can't even see the basket.

Like all of that hard work, you know, of the four days in the weight room during the summer in college, not going home, just that time, it's like putting in that time.

You finally get to see the reward of it, you know, Even though my rookie season I didn't play a lot, it's the fact that I get to suit up every day and I can put professional athlete on my resume.

And I'm sharing the court with one of the greatest to ever play women's basketball, Tamika Catchins.

Every day, you know, like every.

Everybody can't say that.

So I think for me, like that was the biggest thing.

It was just.

I'll never forget the first time walking out of Turner and I saw my fever jersey and they was asking for my autograph.

I think I might have shedded a tear, I'm not sure, but I was just like, wow, like you're really, you're here.

You know, like you did it.

This small town girl from Neville's, Georgia that nobody ever even heard of.

Like you, you did it, you beat all of the odds.

So I just remember that.

Not satisfied.

But it was just like, okay, now I can finally breathe because I'm here now.

It makes sense though.

I mean, when you think back to being a kid, right, There's a lot of people like you that have dreams of being a professional athlete.

And it always seems to me that when you get there, it has to feel.

And obviously there you have some signs.

It's not like you go from being a high school junior to being most of us anyway.

Go from being a high school junior to being dropped into a professional sports league.

So you kind of have some inkling that there's a possibility it's going to happen.

But I know I always feel like it would be almost surreal to walk out.

Like you mentioned Tamika Catchings, right?

So you've watched her on tv, you've seen her for years as one of the best players in women's basketball, and now suddenly here you are, you're walking out on the court next to her, and in Some ways I always feel like it would almost be surreal to step out onto that court or step into the arena or step out of the locker room, out of the tunnel, and it's almost like you'd have to spot.

Like, I personally, I feel like I would have had to spend like three minutes just kind of staring around at the stands and the people around me and going, holy cow.

Like, I've been dreaming about this since I was 7 years old and here I am.

It's almost like that pinch me kind of moment, if that makes any sense.

Oh, no, for sure.

Because I'll never forget, in college, my coach used to show me videos of Cynthia Cooper, you know, back when Houston had the comments, and they won, like, back to back, like, triple championships.

And so he would watch clips.

He would show me clips of her, you know, hey, how she's doing the reads, and, you know, how I can implement that to my game.

He did that a lot, which I really appreciated.

And so I'll never forget, you know, coming into the league and they're like, hey, you got Cynthia Cooper.

And I'm like, wait, what?

Like, I don't want to put me on the other guard.

Like, what, I can't guard her?

You know, or it's like, you going to New York?

And they're like, hey, you got Becky Hammond.

She's hitting like three threes in my face.

And they're like, get your hand up, rookie.

I'm like, well, Jesus Christ.

Like, I was there, right?

So you.

You never.

You never forget those moments, you know, and again, like, you know, to.

To be able to stand in the corner.

I tell people all the time, like, I had one of the easiest jobs in the world.

You know, I was a shooter, so all I had to do was just wait for Tamika to kick it and just knock down the shot.

It's about like playing with LeBron.

Like, it's.

It's a pretty sweet gig when you think about it.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Well, you better make them.

You better make them star players so your star.

So your star doesn't get mad at you, right?

As long, as long as you're knocking them in, you're good.

Oh, man.

And, you know, we talked about work ethic, right?

So in my mind, because I've always been a hard worker, so I'm here now.

I'm in the WNBA.

I'm part of the 1%, whatever.

Like, not.

Not a lot of people get this experience of being a professional athlete in the wnba.

So I work hard.

But when I tell you watching Tamika Catchins watching the Natalie Williams and watching how they work, like it was a point.

Even in my rookie season, I started questioning how the hell did I get here?

Yeah, because like I thought I was working hard, but like it is a legit job to them.

Like they were nonstop pre practice before practice, lift after practice.

Then I got yoga that night.

And then, I mean it was just like continuous cycle and they did it every single day.

And so like when we're talking about these pros and how they make it look so easy and even how their bodies are able to sustain all of that, it is, it is a job.

Like it is a legit job.

And I was able to see that firsthand and you know, I had to make some changes or I wasn't going to make it the year two.

I think that's something that is severely underrated when it comes to players at the highest level of both, I think the college game and certainly the professional game, that the work ethic and the maniacal desire to improve and get better and master their craft I think is something that.

It's a question that I always like to ask, especially coaches who have experience at the professional level of.

You know, you get to that high of a level of basketball and everybody has talent.

You don't make it to that level without having a.

Without having tremendous talent and without having some physical tools that allow you to be able to get there.

But ultimately, what separates the players who then become all stars at the professional level, who become the very best of the best, who are the Michael Jordan to go back to that, what sets those players apart is just their ability just to keep working, to keep working, to do more and more of what it takes to.

Thinking back to what you said about fundamentals, right?

You do something enough and it becomes fundamental.

Things that Michael Jordan could do or things that Tamika Catchings could do are things that for the ordinary average player, even at the highest level, those things look almost impossible.

But those players at the very, very top have made those skills that for most players would be nearly impossible.

They've made them fundamental because they've just put so much time in.

And then you combine that with the physical tools and the.

Just the skill level that they have that they developed over the course of their careers.

And it's what makes the best the best.

Oh, absolutely.

Hands down.

You know, I remember even off season training that I did in Atlanta with my trainer.

You know, I would train with him once, but he also trained a lot of NBA players.

And so, you know, I Would come do my training with him.

Strength, court workout.

Those guys were going twice a day.

So again, I'm just like, how the hell did I get here?

Like, how am I on a professional level, you know?

Cause they're up.

I think Colby said it, you know, best.

You know, he's up four to six, working out, then he got a break, then he's back at it from, you know, 11 to 1 or whenever.

Like, they're going two, three times a day, you know, and it's just, it's just like I said, it's non stop.

And you know, when they're constantly doing that, like the Tamika Catchings, those really great ones, when they're doing that for a year and you got someone even in my caliber who, okay, yeah, you're a professional athlete, but you're only doing it once.

They're doing it twice, three times a day.

By the time you're three, four years in, it's no way you're catching them, right?

Yeah, there's no way.

Like, you're close.

Yeah.

And you think about the intensity that they're doing it with.

And I remember I had an assistant coach who, he was at Kent when I played as a freshman, and then he went from Kent and he went to the University of Michigan.

And he was there in the season when Ramil Robinson made the two free throws to beat Seton hall in the, in the fi.

In the final four.

And I remember him at some point years later, he talked to me about it and he's just like, he's like, before I went to Michigan, he's like, I just, I had no understanding of, like how, just, you know, how different.

He's like, Ramil's up at, you know, again, seven in the morning before class, and he's doing workouts with, with the ball in his hands, but also doing his weightlifting and doing his plyometric percent, all just, you know, again, just.

It's a different level of work ethic when you talk about players that are that at that level.

And then like I said, you combine the physical tools with that work ethic.

And man, that's when you.

That's when you really have something in a player.

Oh, absolutely, absolutely.

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All right, tell me about the transition from coaching.

Obviously, injuries cut your career short as a professional.

You have to sort of pivot.

And now you go back to your experience with the coaches association and you start thinking, hey, you know, coaching may be direction that you want to go.

So you spent some time at Georgia Tech, Tennessee Tech.

Just tell me about those two stops kind of again, how you got into it first and then tell me a little bit about what you learned and, and what it was like coaching for the first time.

Yeah, so like I said, the internship with the WBCA met some of the.

Met the head coach at the time for Georgia Tech.

So kind of was more in an administrator role there.

And that was literally my first introduction from player to coach.

You know, I was able to sit in on all the coaching meetings, you know, watch all of the workouts.

And it's an adjustment, you know, coming from player because you're the one now that's basically being catered to, to the one that's doing the catering.

The one you basically gone from student to teacher, you know, so I just remember being a complete sponge, you know, just watching how they did everything from the practice planning to the individual workouts to the film sessions, to the recruiting, even hosting recruits for the official visits and you know, just the whole nine there.

It was so new, like all of the paperwork.

Oh my God, the paperwork.

Because I was in an admin role.

I'm like, oh my gosh, right now I'm questioning.

I'm like, okay, I want to be on the court.

Like, this is ridiculous.

Like this is ridiculous.

Like you got to pay for this and pay for this and oh yeah, it was so much, you know, but it was such a learning experience, you know, and I really appreciated My time there, I was able to work with the recruiting coordinator at the time there.

And so when she got the head job at Tennessee Tech, she brought me on as her assistant there.

And that was my first assistant women's basketball coaching role there with her super duper thankful of her tutelage and her mentorship because I learned a lot, you know, and she was one of those people that, she was one of the female coaches in the game that actually empowered me to be a female coach because she put a lot on me every year.

You know, she was just constantly teaching me the ropes of, you know, how assistant women's basketball coaching, how it goes on a D1 level.

And so I learned a super.

I learned so much from her.

And I used to tell her all the time, you know, I was like, you know, I want to be what I had in college.

You know, I was like, I don't want to be a head coach.

You know, I want to, you know, we're in this together.

Like, I'm gonna be your Andrew Calder to Silver Hatchet.

You know, like, literally that was my, my mindset.

And then my very next stop was a head coach.

Not only was it a head coach, I actually started a program.

So I've learned and mature with my words since then.

I'm very mindful of what I say and what I speak, you know, And I mean, my stop has just been non stop from there.

You know, I've even coached that a high school in Atlanta.

You know, I did that before I went to Tennessee Tech, Benjamin E.

Mays High School.

And you know, it's just been, it's been so rewarding, you know, because it keeps me around the game, you know, because I'm such a junkie of it.

And just to be able to have that impact, you know, like I'm such a hands on person, you know, like to be able to have that impact in those young individual lives is like.

You can't put an amount on that.

No, absolutely not.

I think that like we talked about earlier, being able to make an impact on young people certainly is very, very powerful.

And being able to do it through a game that you love, there's, there's really nothing better.

Now, you mentioned that you became a head coach after being at Tennessee Tech and you take over at Thomas University, but you didn't really take over because you started a program from scratch.

And what's funny, Coretta is my last interviewed.

Last week I interviewed Andrew Wingreen, who he is the head coach at the New College of Florida and he Took over there and started a program from scratch.

And so I'm freshly off the same sort of line of questioning here.

So I'm going to kind of follow up with what I talked to him about and ask you the same questions.

What do you look at as being when you think back to that time?

Obviously, you haven't been a head coach before.

Now you're stepping into, I guess, the positive.

It's.

It's a blank slate.

But what do you remember about sort of the first month on the job and sort of.

How.

Did you prioritize what you needed to do?

When you're taking over a program that is starting from nothing that hasn't existed before, how did you prioritize tasks?

Oh, well, first, a roster.

Yeah, exactly.

Recruiting.

You know, the lifeline of coaching.

You know, first and foremost there.

Oh, my God, that was.

That was an interesting chair, you know, because you're starting a program, not only just starting a program, you're starting a program on the NAI level.

And so, you know, I'm coming from a D1 assistant, mid major, but we have resources to going to an nai.

And I remember talking to my AD at the time.

This is literally first week on the job.

So I'm asking him, okay, when do I need to take the recruiting test?

Because July recruiting is coming up.

And he thought that was the funniest thing.

It wasn't a recruiting test, you know, so it was, like, completely different than what, you know, my mind had been trained to do for, like, the past four to five years.

And it was just.

I just remember it being a lot of hurdles.

You know, we didn't have a gym at the time, so we actually had to practice at a local high school.

Uh, we didn't have a weight room at the time, you know, so we had to.

You know, I had to get out in the community.

And luckily, I found a guy who had his own.

It was an old high school gym that he did training out of, and so we were able to work there.

It was just.

It was constantly hurdle after hurdle after hurdle, and it.

It aged me.

Not gonna lie, Mike.

It aged me.

You know, before that job, I didn't drink coffee, didn't have a gray hair.

By year two, I'm drinking coffee every day.

My gray hairs are every.

I age those.

Those first two years, I aged a lot, but.

But I also learned a lot.

What's the number one lesson that you took away from that experience?

When you think about, obviously from there, you go back to being an assistant.

We'll Talk about that in a few minutes.

But when you think about that experience, building the program, being responsible for everything as a head coach, and again, it's so interesting to me to be able to think about coming into and starting a program where you don't have to, quote, change the culture.

You don't have to adjust this.

It's like you can say, well, what do we want our uniforms to look like?

What do we want our game day preparation to look like?

What's the locker room going to look like?

We don't have to.

We don't have to reconstruct it.

We have to.

We have to construct it in the first place.

So when you think about that, what were some key lessons that you learned over the course of that time that you've continued to carry with you in your next couple of stops?

Yeah, I think for me, the biggest thing that I learned during that time there was that, you know, basketball, the impact that I have, I learned so much about me individually as a coach that I did that I didn't quite knew before then as an assistant, if that makes sense.

Because now, like, I am the decision maker, you know, for everything.

I.

I am the head.

And so I learned a lot about me, about my leadership traits.

I used to say all the time, even though we were nia, you know, I used to tell my players every day, we're the UConn of NIA.

Like, that was the standard every single day.

And so I learned quite a, quite a bit about myself, my leadership traits, what I did well, areas I needed to grow in, you know, even the construction of a staff from scheduling.

Like, everything was just so new and just kind of thrown at me.

But I learned a lot.

And so I'm very appreciative for that.

And I'm most appreciative of.

I actually had a conversation with a young lady that I coached there about a month ago, and she brought it up and she was like, you know, coach, even though we were nai, those were some of the best days of my life, you know, like, I'll never forget the life lessons that you taught me.

And, you know, like, our locker room, he was always on us.

Our locker room had to be clean and, you know, we had to look a certain way getting out the bus.

You know, like, again, we were the Yukon of NAIA basketball.

And that was so rewarding to hear, you know, because again, like, everybody wants to win, but the impact that you're having, and that's going to carry far beyond them, you know, if they're.

They're only there for four years, you know, so you play your game for your four years.

Is that it?

Like, is that all that I taught them in four years?

So to be able to hear that, you know, she's still carrying some of those lessons to this day and thriving in her career, you know, like, I.

That was a huge win for me.

And I literally just had that conversation about a month ago.

Well, that goes back to what we talked about a few minutes ago in terms of you want the experience to be a positive one.

And it's funny, I was just at.

My daughter had a summer.

Not a summer league, but just a bunch of teams got together and we're playing high school basketball.

And I was actually talking to a father of a guy on another team that I knew from a previous era of my life.

And we were just kind of talking about our daughter's situations with their teams and how their teams were going to look.

And, you know, we kind of went back and forth and we started talking a little bit about AAU basketball and what was going to happen in July and where our various teams were going to be playing and whatever.

And somehow we got to the idea of the fact that we just want for our daughters and experience that is a positive one.

It goes back to what we said just a few minutes ago, that you want them to win, you want them to be successful, but at the same time, ultimately, you want that experience to be one that they're going to look back on positively and that they're also going to look back on and think that, hey, I didn't just learn how to shoot three pointers better, or I didn't just learn how to run this particular style of offense, or I just didn't learn how to play a particular brand of defense.

I actually learned things that I can now apply when I'm 30 years old, when I'm 40 years old, when I have a family, or when I'm at my job or whatever it may be.

And I think that when I hear you talk about that conversation with the young lady that you coached, like, to me, that's what it's.

That's what it's all about.

And it.

And it's.

It's all about it.

No matter what the level of basketball is that you're at, so many people don't have a perspective on ultimately, like, what are you trying to get out of the game?

I'm talking now maybe more as a parent than as a coach, but what do I want my child to get out of their experience?

Playing basketball.

I mean, sure, I want them to reach their potential, whatever that potential may be, but for different players, that's different levels.

Some players may top out as a JV basketball player in high school.

Some players may top out as a Division 3 college basketball player.

Some players, like yourself, get an opportunity to play at the professional level.

But ultimately, I want them to have a good experience, and I want them to get more out of it.

So here's you, someone who reached the very top of your profession as a player, and you're going to spend far more of your adult life doing something other than playing basketball.

And so ultimately, you hope that what you took away from the game was.

Was more than just being a great player.

It was the coaches that had an impact on you.

And I always try to think about, how do I spin that forward, both myself when I'm working in my day job as a teacher, or I'm coaching my own kids or coaching somebody else's kids, and then how do I look at that experience for my own kids?

Because you see so many people.

And I don't have to tell you this, but how many parents do you talk to when you're out on an AAU event or whatever it might be, where people are just.

They have this delusion about what they think that their kids should be getting out of basketball at a level that they think their child needs to be able to play at?

And ultimately, whether you're at Thomas University or you're at Eastern Kentucky or you're at UConn, if you have a great experience, to me, that ultimately is what it's all about.

And don't get me wrong, everybody wants to achieve and get to the highest level you possibly can.

I think back to myself as a high school player.

Like, I would have killed someone for the opportunity to play Division 1 basketball.

Unfortunately, I was able to do that.

But I look back now from the perspective that I have, and I think there's probably other levels of basketball that I could have gone to and probably had a great experience, too.

It would have been different, but I would have had a great experience.

And to me, that's what it comes down to.

And I think when I hear you talk, that's what I keep coming back to, is that you're building those relationships with the players that you have to give them a great experience in addition to helping them become the best basketball players that they can be.

Yeah.

Because that's it, you know, like, for everyone.

That ball's gonna stop bouncing at the end of the day.

You know, and so kind of how I look at it, you know, if I'm their coach, if I've only taught them to do life while the ball is bouncing, I failed.

Because like you said, you know, like, I've been coaching way longer than I've been playing now, you know, so that's the meat.

Like, that's what's gonna really stick.

And it's just, you know, yeah, we wanna win, but winning is gonna be that byproduct of that daily commitment, that connection, that preparation, that hard work, you know, all of the stuff that regardless of if you're playing basketball or not, you're going to be okay, you know, if you got that foundation of certain things that you just have to have.

And so, you know, for me and my coaching career, still to this day, like, that's my commitment.

This is just helping those athletes reach their full potential.

What's been an aspect of coaching when you think back to the beginning of your time as a head coach at Thomas and kind of be thrown.

Being thrown into the fire and having to learn how to be a head coach on the fly and put all that stuff together.

What's an area of coaching that you feel like maybe at the beginning you weren't very good at, or maybe it wasn't your strong suit.

And then over the course of time, you've slowly developed that into something that you have made it a strength or you made yourself feel very comfortable in that area.

In other words, what's been a great area of growth for you in coaching since you first took that Thomas job?

Just that connection with the players.

Like I talked about, I think when I took the job at Thomas, you know, I had to learn that every player's not me, if that makes sense.

And I think a lot of coaches miss that in a sense to where they're still trying to make it about them.

And, you know, the whole comparison thing, you know, I may have a player that, hey, coach, I don't want to go to the wnba.

I don't want to do what you did, you know, like, I just want to, you know, I just want a good experience with, around some great people and, you know, have a nice college playing career and, you know, get married and be a teacher or whatever.

And not.

Not that anything wrong with that.

But I think for me and my growth, like, I had to learn that, you know, like, hey, like, you could.

You could say that you're the Yukon of the Nai, and that's great.

But, you know, you may not get every player that Wants to go to the final four.

You know, maybe they just want.

They're playing a game because they love competing or, you know, whatever it is, just learning the different personalities and finding a way to still connect with those people.

And it's, it's literally just meeting them where they are.

You know, you may have an okay player.

Okay, how can I make this okay player?

Good.

You may have a good player.

Okay, how can I make this good player?

Elite.

You may have an elite player.

How can I make this elite player great?

You know, so again, it's always just that, that 1% better mentality of meeting that player where they are.

And okay, this is fine.

This is where you are today, but we're not going to stay here.

Like, we're going to work and we're going to strive for something bigger and greater.

And, you know, I think being the head coach at Thomas, you know, first time head coach, you know, in my mind, everybody's going to be great.

This is, you know, forget the good elite.

No, forget all that.

Everybody's gonna be great.

And so I kind of had to learn to just, you know, kind of meet the players where they are and then groom them to their full potential there.

Because everybody's different.

Yeah, that's a hard thing sometimes to wrap your head around.

I found that it took me a long time, and to be honest, I don't know if I ever really have fully gotten over it.

When I think about just again, talking like you did in terms of myself as a player and my approach to the game and the way that I went about things, and when I would see players that would be on a different track maybe than the one that I was on, it was easy to get.

It was easy to get frustrated of.

Why don't they want to do X?

All they got to do is just this or this little bit of extra or put this little bit of extra time in.

And you eventually have to come to realize and accept to some degree that not everybody wants the same things out of the game.

As you said, not everybody approaches it in the same exact way.

Not everybody gets ready for a game in the same way.

Not everybody handles a loss in the same way.

I remember the guy that I coached with my first year when I was an assistant varsity high school coach, and he and I would sit on the bus after losses and of course we're, you know, we're pounding our head on the back of the seat and we're, you know, we're angry if we lose a game and then you're Here, kids in the back, they're kind of laughing and joking around, and we would be like, how can they.

How can they be laughing and joking around after we just lost this game?

Like, it doesn't.

It doesn't make any sense.

And then eventually you come to the realization that the way they're handling it is probably healthier than the way we were handling.

They were able to go through play as hard as they could, do what they did, and then game was over, and they were able to move on and get ready for the next phase of life.

Whereas, as you know, as a coach, you're carrying that stuff with you and you got to be really careful about taking all that home and having it just impact your mental health and just your state of being.

And it's hard, though, because you tend to look at, obviously, the game through your own lens.

Yeah, it's so hard.

And even to this day, one of the things that I'm probably most proud of is to just let it, you know, like you said after the game when I was at Thomas and we lost, I wish you would crack a joke.

I wish you would even smile.

Right?

Yeah.

You know, but it's just like, you know, like, even with grieving, people grieve different way, you know, so you can't expect everybody to respond and say the same things.

Like, it's just.

It's just unrealistic.

And so I've learned to just let it.

So even now after a game, win or loss, it's just less is more, you know, I'm not going to get in there.

I try not.

I try not to get long winded.

Even though they claim I'd be giving sermons, you know, it's way shorter than it used to be.

But, you know, it's just like, let it, because, you know, I need time to, you know, kind of work through my emotions.

I need to go back and watch it.

Did I really see that?

And dissect it, you know, and it's so funny.

So I had one of the players that I worked with this past year, she wanted to work on a defense.

And so again, player development.

So we do a workout, and it's just a defensive workout, and we're just working on, you know, different footworks and being physical, getting through the screens, all the things.

And so the very next game, like, we're both excited about our next film session because we're like, oh, you crushed it.

Like, you was really good defensively this game.

So we watched about the first five minutes of film, and she looked at Me, she's like, well, Coach, it's not as good as I thought.

I was like, yeah, tell me about it.

But that's the beauty of film, you know, And I tell players all the time.

I've had to learn that as a coach.

It's never.

It's never as good as you thought.

It's never as bad as you thought.

It is amazing when you think.

And now film is so ubiquitous.

Do you guys film practice at Eastern Kentucky and watch.

Watch the practice film every day?

Yep.

Yeah.

So, like, that's something again.

I played in College from 1988 to 1992.

Practice film didn't exist.

And even game film, when I think about watching it, we're talking VHS tapes.

We're talking.

The old assistant coaches.

G would go and drive to whatever the FedEx or the UPS, the, you know, the post office to mail the tape, or they'd be meeting somebody halfway between schools to exchange video and all this stuff.

And then you're watching it, and coach would be trying to stop it on a particular play.

You'd hit rewind.

It would go like three minutes past where the play you wanted to stop.

So you end up watching the same thing.

It was.

It was such an inefficient process.

It was.

It was unreal.

But now, to your point, like, the.

The amount of film that you have available as a coach, in some ways, it's a blessing and a curse, right?

Because now you can.

You can be so efficient with it that you find yourself just probably watching even more games than you might normally to prepare for an opponent and all that kind of thing.

But also, players have so much access.

But I think the biggest there is that it's amazing how your memory plays tricks on you and what you think you see in the moment, and then you go back and you actually watch it on film.

And to me, it's one of the best teaching tools that we have as coaches.

And I know that even as a parent watching film with my kids and trying to help them to be able to understand and learn, because there's an art to watching film and.

And being able to know what to watch for and what you should be looking at.

And it's just.

It's such a.

It's such a valuable tool.

And I think to be able to.

To be able to utilize it the way that coaches and programs can utilize it today is huge.

How do you guys.

How do you guys use the film with.

With your individual players in terms of getting them to be able to see the things that.

That they, as an individual are doing.

Are you meeting with.

How often do you meet with them in one on one to just watch film?

Are you doing it position by position?

Just how do you guys organize that at Eastern Kentucky?

Yeah, so I, I do it one on one, you know, so I have, we, we break it down by groups here.

But, you know, I usually end up working with everybody from the guards to the polls to the tweeners and you know, anybody that comes to me the beginning of the season, if they're outside of my group, you know, we're going to watch it 1v1.

And we usually try to do that.

It's not every day because again, like, we don't want to overload them because, you know, we.

Right.

We're blessed in a sense to where our players watch a lot of film anyway.

But it's just different when you're watching it.

As a coach and kind of how I like to do it is the transfers, the first film session, I may watch it and I'm asking them what they see, you know, because I need to gauge like, okay, what are they seeing, getting into their mind, you know, what are they thinking?

What are they looking for?

And again, like understanding the meeting of players where they are, and then we just grow from there.

So I think the film sessions have to be conversational, you know, like, I don't want it to be a film session to where we're just watching film and I'm talking at you like it's conversational.

What do you see?

Okay, well, this is what I see.

Did you see this?

The two on one on the backside.

And so it's very much a conversation through video.

How do you balance out the positive and the negative in terms of showing them things like, hey, here's where we needed you to do this.

And this is right on point.

This is exactly what we're looking for.

And then pointing out opportunities for growth on the other hand, where, hey, here's something where you might want to approach this in a little different way and obviously asking questions.

To me, what you just talked about is a great way to do it because it gets the player to think and then you're bouncing ideas back and forth off each other and then eventually you kind of get them to the.

You're able to direct them in.

In the way that.

Where you want them to go.

But how do you try to balance out that positive and negative, showing them what they're doing well versus showing them what they need to improve?

Yeah, so.

So preseason, it's all teaching you Know, like that's how we just kind of gauge it.

It's all teaching during the season.

I, I gauge it on kind of like the emotional intelligence of the player, if that makes sense.

Example, I had a shooter that was struggling.

You know, she was struggling.

You could see it, her body language, like I could just see it that she was struggling.

And so, yes, she had a terrible game, a terrible shooting game.

And so for our film session, the next film session, I'm just going to show you strictly positives, you know, because it's not that, it's not that you don't have the capable skill, it's just mentally you're not in the headspace right now because you're down on yourself.

It's just that understanding of the players, meeting them where they are and understanding what they need in that moment.

You know, a lot of players, they don't need correction all the time, you know, especially if they're good enough numbers and you're winning, like they're obviously doing something well.

So it's really just emphasizing the areas that they're doing well.

Here's some areas that we can improve on and then also having that, you know, connection, the energy understanding of the player that, okay, if they're struggling with confidence right now, they don't need a 15 or 10 to 15 minute sessions of more of their f ups Y.

Yeah, you know, they're already down.

Like they probably need the, the balance of the positives there.

No, it makes sense.

And I think that that's one of the ways that for sure, the coaching profession has evolved.

And I feel like back in the day that there was a lot of.

We're just pointing out the negative and we're trying to correct that and we're pointing out everything and sort of the mental game of helping a player maintain, slash, build, slash, rebuild their confidence.

I'm not sure if you go back 20, 25 years ago that there were that many coaches that were concerned about the mental side of the game and doing what you just described.

And so I think that's one area when I look at the coaching profession as a whole.

I think that's an area that the coaching profession has definitely evolved in a positive way to be able to impact players not just physically, but also mentally, to give them tools to be able to.

Because sometimes we forget too right, that you're coaching 18, 19 year old young women who are still trying to figure themselves out.

And if we're constantly breaking them down and never building them back up, sometimes we get to places that we don't ultimately get the best performance out of them because we haven't given them the tools to be able to unlock that in themselves.

Yeah, totally.

You know, and like I said earlier, you know, the.

The whole goal, especially for me, with player development, is just to.

To get them as comfortable as they can on the court and as confident as they can, you know, because with.

Without that confidence, you're not.

You're not cooking with anything anyway.

So that's.

That's really the goal of it.

When you think about your time as a head coach and then going back to becoming an assistant coach, what's something that you appreciate more now that your head coach might want and need that maybe you didn't realize in your first go round as an assistant after having been in a head coach?

What's something that you realize that your head coach needs from you now as an assistant coach that maybe you didn't know before?

I think just that.

That open and honest dialogue, you know, like, again, like, you.

You win with people.

And I'm a firm believer that the connection is key in that, you know, so it's.

It's kind of like, you know, and I do this here.

If I see something or if I feel like, hey, this may help us win, you know, being able to express that, you know, whether I'm calling the shots or not.

Like, this is.

Hey, I watch film on this, you know, what do we think about doing this?

Or what do we think about this action for this player and just being able to have that.

That dialogue there, you know, Whereas, you know, my first time when I was assisting around, you know, it was very much just, okay, what you need me to do, coach.

You know, it may have been a little forward thinking, but not to the degree that it is now, because, you know, I'm constantly thinking, okay, if I was a head coach, what would I want in an assistant?

And then that's what I try to be, you know, and, you know, at the end of the day, it's about the people.

Like, we've been talking about the connection and, you know, the people feeling confident and the family feel all the things that these recruits say, you know, that they want, and just giving that to them on a daily basis and making sure that I'm the best assistant that I can be for my boss.

All right, final two, part question, part one.

When you look ahead over the next year or two, what do you see as being your biggest challenge?

And then the second part of the question, when you think about what you get to do every Day.

And I guess I can already predict what this answer is going to be.

But what brings you the most joy?

So your biggest challenge and then your biggest joy.

My biggest challenge in coaching.

Let's keep it.

Yeah, we'll keep it on the professional side.

Okay.

My biggest challenge in coaching right now is it's probably going to be trying to get this body in the best shape that it possibly could be in, you know, like again, I'm such a hands on individual.

Like I know that about myself.

I love being on the court.

If I can be on the court for eight hours of the day, I would be, you know, So I think that's my biggest challenge right now is just, you know, getting my body ready to handle that, you know, like the players are getting ready to come back next week, you know, so again, I'm on a detox this week, you know, getting my body ready to be on that court nonstop with the player development, you know, because those players, they, they don't really care about my age.

They just coach.

I need my shot, I need my percentage to get better, you know, so just making sure that I'm my best self there to be able to help them reach their full potential.

And you said the second part of.

The question was, remind me, biggest joy.

Oh, the impact.

The impact.

My biggest joy in coaching is the impact that I get to have on these young adults lives.

And again, it's just meeting them where they are and then the small part that I get to play for however long I'm in their life to help them reach that full potential.

And I've been blessed to coach a lot of young ladies and even some young men that I mentor along the way to still be able to be in their lives that, you know, they still call and ask for advice or hey, coach, you know, can we do a workout or whatever.

And it's, it's been really cool and it's been very rewarding for me.

That's, that's really a win.

The championships are nice, but to be able to have that kind of impact on a daily basis, like that's, that's such a win.

That's great stuff, Coretta.

I don't think there's any doubt about that.

When I think about coaching, that to me epitomizes what it's all about.

Before we wrap up, I want to give you a chance to share.

How can people get in touch with you, find out more about you, find out more about the program.

So whether you want to share social media, email, website, any and all of those, please do so.

And then after you do that, I'll jump back in and wrap things up.

Okay.

Yeah, they can find me on IG Gifted14.

I know it's not my name, but that's my username.

I'm on LinkedIn Ask Coretta Brown.

And yeah, that's about all of the social media extent that I have.

But you know, my email is always available.

You know, I'm constantly asking questions from those from young coaches who want to get in the business or you name it.

So I'm pretty much available.

I'm pretty much an open book.

What you see is what you get.

And I'm all about growing the game of women's basketball.

That's for sure.

Cannot thank you enough for taking the time out of your schedule tonight to join us.

Really appreciate it.

And to everyone out there, thanks for listening and we will catch you on our next episode.

Thanks.

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